The Point - Why are gamers so angry?
Danny explores his own history of online anger, and wonders what we can all do to make our games communities more tolerant.
Interested to know what others think, but I think that the situation has far worsened over the years. I think I can see a few of the causes and I think that its these causes which need to be resolved before anyone's behaviour will change. The ones I spot are:
1. Relying on video games as our main source of entertainment in our formative years means we develop strong, immovable values around them. Twenty years ago video games were a marginal part of our lives, if at all - we just didn't care as much.
2. Lots of things to have angry values about. Mostly the over commericalisation of gaming (EA) leading to cash cows and greed, deceptive marketing strategies, increased cost of games. So if we encourage discussion, we're providing the most fertile ground for hateful diatribe. Games used to be about entertaining people, not bleeding them dry, and we won't let the industry forget it.
3. The internet. In three ways:
3.1. It's anonymity makes vitriol easy and without serious consequence. We used to have to face a crowd of our opponents before criticsizing them.
3.2. It creates virtual mobs with a self-reinforcing entitlement mentality, and then gives them a direct route to bully authorities (some arguably as a result of antagonism, particularly developers who simply aren't responding to the complaints that they receive). Shockingly, this one has led to developers receiving death threats for nothing more than design choices.
3.3 It promotes freedom of speech without the means to, as you put it, brush off the layer of filth on the top. If we behaved like this anywhere else, we'd be dismissed, punished, arrested, or worse. Freedom of speech is important, but so is acting to resolve the abuse of it.
I don't know whether to hedge my bets on the situation getting better or worse. There are some things to be optimistic about (improved industry attitudes from the likes of Steam (when they feel like it) and the independent community, moderation from the likes of YouTube) but I can't see a way to resolve some of the other issues.
Okey Danny i dont know if you gonna read this or not but im going to write anyway , im at work and got 1 more hour and im bored and watched all your videos again.
There are fanatics all around the world for all kind of products , all kind of ideas or anything you can think of. There is no way stopping this people for acting like you said in your video but the ban and cencor them. So if you are not wanting to do it we have to go with it okey.
But whats fueling all of us in GameSpot are %90 of the time is "YES" you guys are the blame. I did joined the GameSpot community 2005 too and i was really happy. I was reading articles , people were debating nicely , really informative and such.I wasnt writing at forums or blogs or anywhere you can think of because people were informing eachother , but something changed. Just like you stated in your "Titanfall" video about what happened to Call of Duty.You guys were almost perfect back then , I dont know if any of you guys working at GameSpot doing it on purpose but GameSpot is changed. And not in a good way.
For example most of the article "Titles" are misleading and it really looks like its only for getting hits on that article. I dont know you guys getting "Bonus"es for these kinda situations. And after the "Misleading Title" there comes the article. I read , watch or hear same story from another site lets or the source himself / herself. In the most articles even the "Quotes" are wrong or changing the original form "From the Source" and that changes makes debates. People are misinformed more , knowing exactly nothing , you know ... Like those people who can use google and search for "how the hack msn passwords" back in 2005 - 2010 and call themselves "Hackers" you know the kind , you all know the kind which im talking about. These people are taking over the internet. Its a shame but this is how it works.
Our generation 80's or early 90's are fading away now. They are leaving these kinda websites or any platform because of these people. And these "Misleading Titles" , "Articles" , "Videos on Youtube" or any website you can think of arent helping.
"Click" is the money now and "Proper" internet content is fading away like "Call of Duty" , one of the best games of all times with old releases like Modern Warfare the first.
If you change people changes eventually.
Best video yet Danny! Very well done and you are right in your opinion, we can - and should - be better!
You wanna see angry gamers? Try having developers constantly ignore everything that we request you do in a game. Activision with the game hosting and dice with client side hit detection and so on. They never learn from past issues.
As a MC once said the microphone wasnt invented for everyone, same as social media and the ease of sharing your view. Most of the fun i get from Gamespot is to read comments.those negative and out of order comments. What can you do when on a news channel 80% of the news is death, crimes and violence and a odd happy story here and then. We are self programming our brains by giving the attention to those things, i only watch 3 hours of TV a week and to be honest im much happier and positive!
On a note aside, you know what drives me angry? World of Tanks constant ads, they're so loud! Sorry, but I crossed that thing in all the videos I tried to watch today! Grrr
Thank you Tooitchy for being a voice of reason and sensible suggestion. I couldn't agree more, there needs to be more accountability for our conduct on the internet in general but particularly on blogs and in chat rooms. Like Krollvetter I am an older gamer in my 50's and am somewhat used to the small majority of aggressive, immature gamers out there that have no idea how to express themselves without swearing but that does not make me immune to insulting behaviour or aggressive attacks. I feel we need to go back to harder moderation and have constant offenders kicked out. I know this creates more work for moderators but maybe it's time to take moderation from voluntary to a real time paid position, I'm sure there are plenty of people out there who would happily do that job.
Almost 5,000 comments, no doubt the majority are people saying things like "This is so true" and "amen to this, people need to chill out" etc. But those same people are, for the most part, guilty of this same behavior, myself included. The internet is a wonderful thing, but it creates a barrier between people where accountability does not exist whatsoever, and people end up treating each other in ways they wouldn't even dream of, were they to be face to face with that person. It's just a sad fact of the internet, I don't know what can be done, but I have noticed a huge amount of major websites taking action against it in various ways, in addition to those mentioned, IGN has also made a public plea for just a little decency in the comments, and while one of the ways they are doing this is by causing comments with excessive swearing, (or multiple comments in a short time with swear words) to be flagged for approval from a moderator before showing up is pretty annoying, and tedious, it seems to have actually made an impact.... well, I hesitate to say an impact, people still manage to be vitriolic and hateful to one another without excessive cursing, but it's much better than it used to be.
I hope the internet starts maturing, it's a shame that it's come to outright censoring from many major websites because the nasty comments are too out of control, it seems that as the internet has become more and more a staple of our everyday lives, the more people use it to lash out and vent their personal frustrations against innocent people with slightly differing opinions. The real solution is people need to learn how to communicate with the general public. If someone is rude to you in Starbucks, then don't jump on the internet looking to attack the first person who doesn't like a video game as much as you.
Lastly, everyone needs to figure out that just because you like the XB1, or PS4, or WiiU, and someone else doesn't, that isn't someone attacking you as a person. They aren't threatening your pride, or trying to make you think you wasted your money, so lets stop responding like the console you like is part of your soul, Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft isn't paying any of us, so lets stop acting like corporate reps trying to hurt the competition on every gaming website. Those companies don't give a damn about us, and whether most of us want to admit it or not, we need all consoles to succeed, even the ones we don't like, because if only one does well, and the others fail, guess what? That one company is going to screw all of us, competition breeds consumer benefits.
It's good to know that you have correctly identified an ongoing phenomenon in an honest real way. It is true that continuing this sort of behavior has more public implications on what it means to not only participate in this online gaming community, but also the level of desire for more mature participants to actually subject themselves to continued participation.
In addition to your thoughts it is also those that respond to such vulgar commentary to fuel the cry for attention and cause the cycle to continue. It would be wise for the greater community to keep this episode of The Point in mind going forward.
First of all I have to say that I am a VERY mature gamer (in age) - 63 years old. I have gamed for a lot of years and love it. I have to agree with another poster who said how good they feel when they meet a fellow gamer - there is a very definite and wonderful connection that you cannot get with anyone who does not game!
Alas, these feelings do not seem to be achieved on many commenting sites - Pintrest seems to be the exception because people have to go through a little more "work" to get to a commenting section.
This video was "spot on" in most cases and the summing up was great, but I can say for a fact that teenage boys are hardly the only people who turn comment pages into a nightmare! Although young people tend to swear the most and probably are in need of some empathy training, older adults can be just as bad - worse, because they should know better having lived life longer!!
I follow a number of news sites that are mainly commented on by adults who can be obnoxious, foul-mouthed, stupid, insensitive, uninformed, stubborn, cocky, annoying and will not stay on topic! I don't see this as just an internet problem, but as a societal problem that is plaguing our country! Lack of self control and manners is celebrated in tv programs, sports, movies, radio and general life situations.
Not only entertainment personalities, but politicians and religious leaders, try to see how outrageous they can sound and act!
One of the worst symptoms of this total lack of "adult behavior" are the "reality" shows that pollute the airwaves with people treating each other as badly as possible, losing control of themselves, swearing, shouting and throwing tantrums at the slightest mishap! How terribly disgraceful that people watch and accept this behavior as "funny harmless entertainment"!!
The same goes for the driving habits of many people now days - the traffic lights and signs are only "suggestions" to them. The mantra is "no one can tell me what to do"! And these are adults - not teens.
The more people are exposed to out-of-control behavior, the more it becomes acceptable and the norm.
Although this is not to excuse completely the posters on Game-Spot (and other sites), it is understandable that they are only mimicking the rest of the world.
I am not saying we should go back to the uptight days of yesteryear, but I suggest that people take a close look at how others are behaving in the entertainment, political, news and religious worlds. Is spoiled, rude, boorish, crude, hurtful, dangerous, and thoughtless behavior how we, as thinking human beings, want to act? Is this the best we can do?
Danny You made me feel some nostalgic feels I didn't want to feel. Especially when talking about high school and showing Linking Park, Deftones etc. Damn You.
I have 27 years old and i am gamer for 20 years. I need to say this, I use gamespot for a long long time, I don't even remember when i start to use gamespot was in 1996 or 1997 something like that, I did a search on internet for good gaming site and i found the site i read it and i found interesting and notice i am Portuguese not even american, since that times i come here regularly! And Notice in that time i didn't have internet and when i was in the school back in the days, i go to library always and gamespot was always one of the gaming sites i consult or read if you prefer until this days! Danny is right about the gamer community, since gamespot activate the comments this is full of kids and people who don't respect each others, sometimes i have afraid to write comment and tell my opinion because i get attack always sometimes personal attacks... Is bit crazy, i don't come here to get disrespected, this new generation of gamers don't respect the others and their opinions, i remember before the gamers don't use to be like this, we used to speak about games and have fun with it and so on, now the community's are awful in Geral, that is not only a gamespot problem is a problem from majority of sites like IGN for example, blogs, clans etc, even inside games talking with each others jesus!! This problem is not only in the gamer industry area, is everywhere else, but in this area is where you notice that more!!! I am sad to say but this need generation of gamer are making a person who is a"gamer" looking really bad, they are making us the old ones look like them and new ones who arent! The idea of gamer this days is: Looser, disrespectfull, assholes, retarded, fat, no life prick, no sex lol, and so on! That is the wrong idea about all of us! We gamers are not like that! :) At least I believe we aren't. Danny great piece of journalism i wish i can meet you one day and johnny to. cheers :)
Amen Danny! Comment sections should be about the related games or general subjects at hand, instead they just turn into meaningless and unnecessary war zones.
I want people to appreciate games for the effort that goes into them as well as the memories and friends they've given us. That's just not going to happen with some of the people that are out there these days.
I know this might not get read by any of the higher-ups at Gamespot and might not even really be possible but maybe users could be granted with a different kind of account that separates constructive comments from general comments?
I don't think there's any one or two reasons why these changes have occurred. All the user comments on this have different ideas. But I agree with Danny and I wonder if online gaming itself and society's condemnation of losing at something are just an awful combination that is enhanced by some of the many other suggestions. Kids all get trophies now no matter what place they finish in and the lesson of failure or reinforcement that you need to practice harder, work harder, and that blind luck all play into the final result are lessons that no longer get taught. That being said, I really miss the days of N64. Me and three other friends used to hang out after school when sports weren't in and we'd play Goldeneye, Hexen, NBA Showtime, Mario Kart, etc. Sure, we'd rag on the other one but they were jokes and made our friendships stronger. Ugh, I could go on and on. I'm sure someone on here can relate.
Man Danny is so real. I remember Feedbackula's video on the subject matter, he came off all pretentious, not asking why it occurs. Even threatening to quit if things did not get better, yeah fucking right. Anyway great job Danny.
Great commentary Danny! As a gamer approaching middle-age I know I would appreciate a more mature community.
In a lot of ways I actually prefer the episodes not based on a perticular game. As much as I love hearing about Titanfall, GTA5 etc, listening to Danny talk about the games community generally is how I think this series should really be heading, we have review videos for individual games. Nice work mate, keep it up!
This is one of the main reasons I left Gamespot and moved over to NeoGAF and Giant Bomb. I was thinking of coming back here, but then I realised I didn't want to interact with teenagers. This site is too big to be moderated for all the kinds of bigotry that still goes on.
Racism, homophobia, transphobia, and yet it's so odd because Gamespot is one of the few gaming websites where people of that variety are part of the staff. Yet they're still attacked on a daily basis. I knew Kevin VanOrd and Carolyn Petit back when they were just members. I'm surprised they haven't up and left for a more tolerant gaming community, but then you have to fight the good fight no matter how bad it gets. They're incredibly brave individuals and I cherish their contributions to this day.
Changing the ToS and switching to the new comment system is mainly to blame here. This site used to be a very mature place until those two changes occurred. Obviously, the people themselves are to blame as well. But you used to not be able to say anything worse than ass or hell without your comment getting removed instantly. It was a very nice place, no cursing, no name calling, and like 99% less trolls.
I didn't see a single comment in this video that I considered worth making a video over. There might have been some comments that were over the line, but I think people need to develop thicker skin and ignore the idiots. So much coverage is given to this subject especially when it concerns a big release and gamespot manages to make it into some controversy. Is it to garner views and generate traffic? Maybe, but it does happen way too much on this site and especially with Carolyn's reviews. So maybe instead of pretending it's all about the transgender issue and maybe just maybe it's actually about the review.
Get rid of feedbacula. it just fuels these types of people and their comments. Be more strict with your content. You guys swear, make fun and act like adolescents all the time in your videos. Asking the community to be more mature is hypocritical when you guys do the same.
No, u are below me Jason Cortez. Don't worry, one day I'll teach u just like we took ur training wheels off a few months back.
The important thing about this video is that I was mentioned. Oh, and encouraging positive social behavior and stuff. Bust mostly me.
I wish that every gamer could just get along, regardless of our preference of games. There is no reason to cuss or make personal attacks at each other, as we are all human, and we all deserve respect. Why do gamers treat each other this way, when we all know that we may be different, but we should respect another's views? I personally agree with Danny's opinion, and I hope that one day Gamespot will be an environment where all gamers can get along. Great show, Danny.
Danny's show is awesome as always! And I do miss "Escape from mount stupid" because that was another amazing show
@CrazyLeyther Exactly what I was thinking. Damn, I have only had suspicions that I was cheated on by a girl back in high school, never confirmed, only assumed to be true, and these revelations came to me AFTER we broke up, and they still drove me nuts/pissed me off. I never did anything to her, but damn, I couldn't imagine 4 dudes in one night, all of them my friends..... I'd do more than post her number online, lol.
I get cheered up when I actually meet other players in real life, we have natural conversations and even console war arguments don't come close to how stupid they sound on the Internet. You can't say dumb stuff face to face. Completely different persona from a comment to real life speak.
1996, wow that's amazing. What do you remember about the site from back then? I'm 26 years old, but I came here around the 2000s.
@digi_matrix Just wait. GameSpot will get a muslim on staff and shit will EXPLODE.
@videolunatico the whole heterosexual idea is stupid...seriously, try to be in someone else's shoes. Would you be ok if your kind was constantly attacked, day in day out, with hate messages and threats of violence not just on the Internet but also in real life? Whether you agree or disagree on the notion, shouldn't you show a little respect for the variety in people? What's the point of living a life full of hate for other people when they're doing no harm to you personally?
@FreedomPrime The irony here is that for ten years users complained (and that's putting it mildly) that Gamespot was too uptight and that moderators were too aggressive. A couple years ago @JodyR announced the ToS would be loosened to allow limited vulgarity and many situations that would have been previously considered trolling. This also translated to staff content such as videos and articles becoming more casual.
Now that Gamespot has loosened up, and with the new chat system (is it still new? Livefyre is still new to me, anyway), users - and staff - are able to be more blunt. Staff are responding to users in pleas to the community for some decorum and civility; staff might "act like adolescents," but they're not spouting bigotry or threatening users. I'm hopeful that they do not need to resort to being more strict with their content. The way things are going, though... who knows.
As a Muslim myself, that would be awesome! Just get Danny's friend, Tamoor Hussain.
Also, lame joke :P