Discussion

55 comments
johnnyauau
johnnyauau

Took a while for the chat system to change.

Fresnokila
Fresnokila

I did find some issues with the controls but after I got the clawshots...but still pressing down to recenter is so quick and easy it doesn't even get in the way...my complaint would be Fi...she ruins the game for me...the moment i get an item and think "ah I should use this at this area"...she comes out and says "you should use that in that area"...and it bugs the hell out of me...it takes the fun of discovering things on your own away ha... Anyways about the score...if the good outweighs the bad and its a great game....7.5 does sound low indeed ha...for some reason it makes it sound like an average game..which I think is the main problem everyone has....the way it makes the game sound average and not very good as they say themselves in the video (even though not intentionally)... Ha and I have to agree with the fishnotes or whatever they are part =_=

johnnyauau
johnnyauau

One more thing that Tom pointed out in this HotSpot is the Zelda formula. Apart from Super Smash Bros series in which you can play Zelda, even though I can't play Zelda in any other games, the games like Ocarina of Time although it works, you don't seriously get the freedom and follows like a Call of Duty story sequence in which one area won't open until you defeat a boss. If only they use the original Legend of Zelda blueprint in which you get to go in any dungeons in any order. Much like The Godfather that allows you to go anywhere to find out what places you need to go to. So maybe for the next Zelda, perhaps having that sort of freedom is seriously needed that follows the original Legend of Zelda but keep it fresh for the future.

johnnyauau
johnnyauau

There's a blog from Carolyn I think when it comes to reviews and how they work. It nails perfectly what's going on with gamers: People like hardcore Zelda fans seems to be blindsided that they want the reviewer to give what they wanted to be and is totally obsessed by high numbers like nine and ten already in their minds. They're not really using the reviewer as a guide to find out the pros and cons of the game and for things to look out for. As far as the controls go, I believe people shouldn't dis the flaw at all. Why? Because of issues of calibration and not knowing how much movement you need to swing a sword via motion plus. Anyway, I believe that people shouldn't expect the reviews to go their way without the need to gloss over the flaws and expecting the number to be as high as nine and ten.

potsiiscool
potsiiscool

I'm not saying that Tom should have given a perfect score but I do think he took a few points out of the game simply for controversy. Just look at the irony of him saying "I do think it's a very, very good game" while that big "7.5=good" is right next to him. There is a huge difference between a good and a very, very good game (that's 2 verys mind you). Anyway, I think the fact that he is avoiding to elaborate on the biggest flaw he says he found with the game, is very odd. His first and main complain was the controls. The main question Zelda fans (not fanboys) wanted answered was regarding his opinion on the controls. Yet he brushes it off by saying "controls are just the means and it would still get the same score". As for the whole "pointer being at the center of the screen when using an item", it took my like 10 minutes to get used to that without recalibrating.... I've given this guy the benefit of the doubt more than once but I just can't take the review seriously, especially after watching his over-generalized, non-specific arguments on what was the biggest concern people had with the review. One good thing about the review was that the Zelda boards had some pretty hilarious "OMG! WE'RE GONNA DIE!" topics....

Samox
Samox

Great review, Tom. Keep up the honesty and don't listen to any of the fanboy nonsense.

shadowfan3000
shadowfan3000

Well for the most part I agreed with what you said. A lot of the problems you had with the gameplay/story, I did too. I HAVE beaten the game as of today (wanted to watch this after beating it so I wouldn't have spoilers). You guys brought up some really valid points, although I still would have given it at least an 8.0

Flav44
Flav44

I think they make some really good points. I mean, beating the same boss 3 times, insane amount of padding, bad stealth section, bad swimming section, etc. Even if the rest of the game is spotless, it really makes me wonder how so many other reviewers can give it a perfect score. It should be pretty straight forward: a perfect score means no mistakes, no weaknesses, not ‘mistakes but…’. There seems to be some pretty obvious things to say about SS. And they come from 2 long-time Zelda fans who back-up their arguments pretty well (although they could’ve gone a step further in the editing process and added relevant videos to their arguments). Don’t really get people who seem to think there’s some kind of hidden, personal agenda or biased judgments here. They’re obviously Zelda fans who want the series to be the best it can be. And the only way for it to be improved is if Nintendo learns from its mistakes.

Flav44
Flav44

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Flav44
Flav44

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Flav44
Flav44

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

xjonathan2005
xjonathan2005

Tom is inconcsistent and probably a fraud or a I don't know... he said 80% of the controllers work? check his review again, half of his review complained how bad the controller was... he didn't admit his mistakes for playing it wrong :P

Vari3ty
Vari3ty

Thumbs up to McShea. About time the full point scale gets used. For people who are upset, realize that McShea still said the game is a very good game. If you love Zelda, that's all you need to know. Why get upset over one review?

salsaboy11
salsaboy11

also wtf is this "you fight the same thing over and over" Cod you shoot people thats all you do shoot people... Heck MW3 was the SAME as MW2 and yet it gets a better score. Tom Mcshea stfu you piece of ....

salsaboy11
salsaboy11

@Articuno76 you are not playing it right.... Josh from wiifolders showed all the controls and they worked perfectly I also had no problems about the game and i'm 30 hours in

salsaboy11
salsaboy11

@jimmyccckotb You are also a turd. like Tom Mcshea!

jimmyccckotb
jimmyccckotb

I personally agree with this review. I loved Twilight Princess, Windwaker, Ocarina of Time, etc. However, I was disappointed by Skyward Sword. The wii-motion plus doesn't utilize the pointer, so wherever you are pointing the controller when you pull out an item or do anything else that requires motion control becomes the center point. Instead of just making the center of the screen the center point, the wii-motion plus changes the center point to wherever you are pointing it as of the moment. Re-centering it doesn't take long, but it can get you killed in a combat situation. Also, not absolutely everything has to use motion control. Other than the sword and the flying, there isn't much reason to tack on controls that need to be re-centered every two seconds. It just feels broken.

J-Boogie
J-Boogie

I'm interested in the game beyond all the mixed reviews. (I didn't even own a Wii until yesterday.) I just have to play and try it myself.

Articuno76
Articuno76

You know I'd agree, the controls are about 80/20 on when they work and when they, every now and then, spaz out. After watching the review I would agree with all the issues that the reviewer put forth; I had trouble with the thrust motion for instance. Where I would disagree is just on how much the shortcomings of the game drag down the overall experience as a whole. I don't feel it drags it down to a 7.5. The complaints (or rather observations) themselves are entirely valid though.

BelmontWolf
BelmontWolf

i believe reviews of games should be done by teams of 10 people then the average score of each reviewer's experiences taken would make reviews more valid a way to judge a game

hrothgar99
hrothgar99

@TomMcShea i agree with ur review and ur justification for the score is valid ....& hope that u keep reviewing the way u do :)

johnnyauau
johnnyauau

@kgb1234 Let me ask you this? What's makes a reviewer? If someone gives you the game to review it, what would you do? If you encounter flaws, would you gloss over it, attacker the reviewer or be honest in your review? Attacking the reviewer never helps your cause no matter how justify you are, it's already too late. Even if you try to put user's review through a moderator, the outcome would be the same. Think about it. Otherwise, sign out and choose a gamesite that has your preference on it.

kgb1234
kgb1234

Wow. 1. Don't refer to other perfect scores from other journalists, you have absolutely no right to do so and it shows your lack of integrity when you say that this game didn't deserve those scores. 2. If controls didn't affect the overall game to you, even though you clearly didn't know what you were doing with these controls, what kind of game reviewer are you? How does the core mechanic of a game (the controls which directly relate to its gameplay) not matter much on its scoring? 3. If you actually consider a 7.5 reflective of a very good score, please realize that most gamers do not. Gamespot asks you to review games on a 10 point scale, what do you want them to do? Put a "Mcshea scale" beside the score so we can know that you have your own made up version of how to use Gamespot's scale? Your misrepresenting the scoring on this website and making you and the site look awkward in the process. Your asked to review this game out of 10, and its clear what numbers are relative to a "very good game" and which are considered for a "not bad" game. 4. You look desperate, and your impatience with this game has shown your flaws as a reviewer. Gamespot should separate itself from your poor ability to review.

X-Wario
X-Wario

Mc Shae. The fans may hate you now, but just let them actually play the game, and vent some of the release hype - and alot of them will end up agreeing with you. I salute you for sticking with your guts and actually give the game a score you seemed it worthy - despite it beeing Zelda.

zip86
zip86

Here's my sense of this 42 minute video. Their core thesis is that this game is too much like Ocarina, as have all Zelda games since OOT, and the controls are frustrating at times. Their conversation is very much self-reinforced between the three of them; seemingly in an effort justify the score to themselves more than to the viewers. In order to appease moderate sensibilities, they will, from time to time, casually proclaim the game to be "still, very good" despite their constant complaining. Strange, as Gamespot categorizes 7.5 as "good"; 8-9 is "very good". But of course, that's just nit picking. Mc Shae and Brown is quick to agree with each other while the MC is very much disinterested. He did proclaim he's not very interested in Zelda because it's too "cutesy." While Mc Shea is free to have his opinions about the game, his less than honorable character becomes apparent when he chooses to passive-aggressively question the integrity of all other reviewers who gave higher ratings. It happens around 26 min mark, and it's the only 3-4 minutes worth watching to get a real sense of what he actually wanted to say. Overall, his body language and his uneasy smile shows that he's uncomfortable and is there to endlessly defend himself, at the expense of the game and more importantly, the integrity of other reviewers. Looking at Mc Shae's past reviews, he is always on the fringe, mostly much lower score than the general consensus. His higher scores are usually reserved for some obscure game where the meta-rating is much lower than his.

omegasptrm
omegasptrm

I have yet 2 finish the game, so I'll save my full review and critique of his review 4 later. One point I would like 2 make on the "hurt feelings" and his consequent attempt at justification is that reviews are more than opinions. A reviewer has the responsibility to set his/her analysis upon the framework of critical thinking (intellectual dispositions) and not allow emotion (outside of what the work induces) to sway their review. Yes, opinion ultimately plays a part but that's why fanboys who give zeros to great games aren't taken seriously and true unbiased reviewers are.

Flav44
Flav44

They keep showing random images of the game. It's kind of annoying. Like, when talking about aiming, why not show a couple of instances when the problems they're talking about turned up. Instead you get Link running around and shopping (6:30). I'd have thought backing up the arguments with some actual gameplay action'd be kind of essential here. Like "this is one of the problems, here it is in the game". I get that feeling in a lot of reviews actually.

pwndawg7
pwndawg7

okay Tom. You are officially the most noob reviewer

redwater11
redwater11

you going to fast to git it to work, if you don't go craze it fine

Marthi95
Marthi95

Did the makers of zelda add some easter eggs??? :D

amaneuvering
amaneuvering

You guys on the podcast as so wrong about getting rid of the auto jump. The auto jump is one of the key things that makes controlling Link in this game superior to other 3rd person controlled games, like GTA for example, and the addition of the run button that lets him scales walls and run up enemy shields etc is something that works perfectly with this. You guys clearly have your issues with the game but you don't really have a clue as to how to improve it so I'd suggest you avoid trying to do so with your ill-conceived ideas.

SapSacPrime
SapSacPrime

I want to disagree with this review seeing as so many other sites contrast it, but I do have to admit motion controls have been a massive let down this entire gen :?.

misterBullseye
misterBullseye

I read all the comments - Yeah, ALL of them, before even watching this. And was kinda expecting the great mr. MacShea to rant and totally bring this game down as a piece of s%%t. However one of the first things I hear him say is "It is a very good game" Go figure. I won't play it. haven't enjoyed Zelda since the four first ones. (Zelda 1, 2, ALttP and Ocarina) But I trust MacShea's judgement on this. I bet it really is a VERY GOOD GAME!

johny300
johny300

So the problem that its the same formula ? Why are the other sites not complaining ? Is it nostalgia ?

Starsailor_IT
Starsailor_IT

I havent problems with the review, the only problem is actually the score which is inconsistent with other gamespot reviews. When this site gave 7.5 score to a game, most of the times it had some pretty bad flaws and left much to be desired. One thing is certain, that this review gave a lot of publicity to Gamespot.

LeoGoBezerk
LeoGoBezerk

I don't care. 7.5 looks for me absolutely stupid score for this game. 48 reviews with 95 overall. What are you trying to prove? Just double check your score before posting. Fail!

YearoftheSnake5
YearoftheSnake5

Well, I'm obviously enjoying it more than they did. Which is what matters. I tend to disagree with Tom's reviews, but his writings are meant to express his opinion; not yours or mine. You tend to get bashed/derecommended whenever you don't go along with the popular opinion, such as when I gave Halo 2 a 7.2.

Fiscaldeal
Fiscaldeal

I agree with almost everything Tom has to say in his review. I am and will always be a Zelda fan and I enjoy this game, but it's been rather eye-opening the amount of times I find myself rationalizing antiquated and repetitive design choices such as backtracking and key fragment collecting with the phrase, "Well it's a Zelda game, so it's a part of the charm." I know I don't speak for everyone, but this charm began to wear thin for me not even a third of the way through the game, and once it all but ran out; I was bored. The only real point of contention I have with Tom's review is his opinion of the characters; especially the townsfolk of Skyloft. It's apparent the amount of care Nintendo put into giving everyone distinct personalities and appearances. They may be one-noted, but that single note is fleshed out to its fullest.

johnnyauau
johnnyauau

I guess this is the reason why Tom McShea justifies a 7.5 when it comes to this game. Ironically the other game that has 7.5 is Red Steel 2 that requires the motionplus. Also backed up by the review guidelines that it's hard not to get too hyped over one game unless it's done with the care like Ocarina of Time. Perhaps the most is the formula does get stale. I do wish to play as Zelda instead of being Link all the time. Well when people read this, they should be careful not to be too negative. I hate to be kicked out of Gamespot for that reason.

CongressManStan
CongressManStan

Tom, I agree with pretty much everything you are saying and your explanations are reasonable. I believe the outrage does not necessarily have anything to do with your review, but instead that this review came out before the release date of the game. I mean come on, I don't agree with reviews coming out before the release dates because they are too influential on readers/viewers. I mean, when you give a bad rating and there is no way for viewers to either agree or not by actually playing the game, it poses a problem. Once again, your review was great, but releasing a review before the game comes out? Not so great.

thepalatinepoet
thepalatinepoet

"They have no rules with Mario. But with Zelda there's a certain formula and you have to do this..." There's an interview with Miyamoto on IGN, where he specifically says that none of his games start out as a Zelda game or a Mario game or anything. They figure out what would be cool to do on the hardware, then decide what game it should be. So it's safe to say that a lot of work into swordplay was done long before they decided to make the game Skyward Sword, much less a tedious fetch quest chain. They made a mistake in your eyes, certainly, but they probably didn't make the mistake you think they did. "We need a jump button, and a better camera system. Autojump is not good anymore." This I don't really agree with--Mario Galaxy doesn't really even *have* a camera system. This is one of those things that are nice to have, but in carefully crafted experiences they're really a sign that the developer doesn't know how to get the player looking the right way. I also don't know why you really want a jump button, because I've played other games with jump buttons and the fact that Zelda has not been about precise jumping has been a plus in my book. The sort of platforming that comes with a good camera and freeform jumping tends to be a game about falling to your death, or lack thereof, and that's not what I like or particularly see improving a Zelda game. Great talk, though! I appreciate your honesty.

thepalatinepoet
thepalatinepoet

"Making an open world is a simple fix." A simple thing to say, absolutely! Tricky to implement, even more expensive to test and guarantee quality for. I think that would be a great addition, though. I agree. As a reason to really dock points, I'm not so sure. There have always been a few things to do for completionists, but this is definitely not Skyrim or Grand Theft Auto. "This game uses the same mechanics as Ocarina, and Ocarina is a 13 year-old game." This is a tricky criticism, because you're not saying the formula is old, you're saying the formula has been wrong since long ago. Many people bought happily into the fetch quest, dungeon, fetch quest, dungeon format long ago, much like fans of other genres believe in their genre staples. It's actually the case that Miyamoto was trying explicitly to have areas the player returns to, and they probably scrapped a whole lot of ideas and areas to pare it down to the ones you found tedious. So for all its attempts to deviate from the formula it wound up looking like more of the same to you.

Feryraiser
Feryraiser

It seems that most of this video was explaining and justifying why you gave the game a 7.5 .... its kinda sad that you are trying to pathetically cover up for what you said, its very obvious. The controls arnt a giant problem, not many people complain about the controls. Padding is in all games its kinda unavoidable, then again one can mix it up if one wants. idk...

thepalatinepoet
thepalatinepoet

Watching this, I really think you have a good point in suggesting that Nintendo EAD may have put a lot of effort into making this game longer by including repeated activities. It's interesting that you're so good at shield parrying that you don't have to worry about precise striking--I've tried your strategy and it requires probably a bit more skill than you deem necessary. My next post will be a few of the things you said!

fantasyfacade
fantasyfacade

While a certain amount of care should be taken when writing reviews to not come across as bias at the end of the day reviews are opinions of one person. Reviews should be taken as a guideline, don't let them make your decision for you. If you love to play Zelda go play it and stop harassing the reviewer because you didn't like his opinion.

tryagainlater
tryagainlater

I'm surprised that they didn't think it was atleast somewhat structurally different. I see where it's similar to the other games but the build up to the dungeons feels quite different to me that seperates it from the other Zeldas in my opinion.

goubagouba
goubagouba

LOOOOL "That's a really scary idea .. if people are so brainwashed by corporate that they play a game a certain way... I don't even know what to think of that anymore" OMG I SOO AGREE WITH YOU, LIKE MY FRIEND ME SAYS YOU HAVE TO PLAY SKYRIM A CERTAIN WAY BY PUTTING THE DISK IN THE PC BUT I WAS LIKE NO F U I CAN PLAY IT HOW I WANT SO I PUT THE DISK ON MY HEAD AND RAN AROUND THE ROOM!!!! IT WAS WAY MORE FUN!!!!