Discussion

1668 comments
Karjah
Karjah

Game of the year 2013.  Such an epic game. 

bbq_R0ADK1LL
bbq_R0ADK1LL

Carolyn's hand keeps slipping into an alternate dimension. She's lucky she doesn't lose a finger like Elizabeth.

alex_cocolino
alex_cocolino

Now, this is me asking for a spoiler because I need it, i havent played the first bioshock however, from what i understand u never find out what happened to the city of Rapture? is it so and if it is maybe a DeWitt tried to rescue a Elizabeth and in the process destroyed the city?

alex_cocolino
alex_cocolino

I, as many of you have many unanswered questions, however what i make of the ending is much more complicated and i believe that it is albeit a great ending, wrong. elizabeth says: "one man, one city, one lighthouse" and hints towards the similarities of stories (such as the old story of a prince saving a princess from a tower, and for much of the game i did believe that the two were going to fall in love and they did but it was more family love then my idea). Now, we see in the game that Elizabeth sends DeWitt to several universes through the tares she creates, as such the DeWitt we are playing becomes part, briefly, of more then one universe, this leads me to believe that by killing DeWitt at the end the Elizabeths destroy a link between several universes and therefor the implications of this are more severe then Comstock never existing, and because Comstock himself had moved from universe to universe there is a chance that he might be alive. Then I though of the butterfly effect, what would happen to the world if DeWitt drowned at his baptism, the Lutese would have still lived and probably someone else, with more evil intetions could have found her.

altairdarius
altairdarius

multiple final bombs!! I love Bioshock Infinite !!!

McGuirex3
McGuirex3

I'm wondering what's going to be in the season-pass aka dlc, I paid $20.00 for and or when it's coming?!

funkymonkey4710
funkymonkey4710

I guess my gripe with the ending of this game is like what was said below was the inclusion of Rapture without much of an explanation. We are told that there are infinite universes where there is a man, a city, and a lighthouse. Does that mean that the storyline in all of these universes is somewhat similar? Are the same themes carried over? If you analyze the story of Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite you will find large differences? Does this mean Comstock and Booker are in the Bioshock universe as well? Where does Elizabeth get her powers and does this mean Anna will have them as well without the interference of Comstock which means that Lutece's goal of stopping humans from causing tears in Time and Space wasn't successful because by the time Anna grows up she will still have her powers without a leash to subdue her?


So many questions my brain hurts...

funkymonkey4710
funkymonkey4710

Am I the only one that feels like Bioshock is the perfect platform for a television series?

RondoLin
RondoLin

my head hurts after seeing the ending

glorbothis12
glorbothis12

what in fucks name will the next bioshock be about????!!!!


space? seems like kindof a downgrade.

i hope they continue the whole multiverse thing in the next couple. Biggest problem i had with this game, and its the only one cuz this shit is art, is that the entire premise is based upon unlimited possibilities, but its linear gameplay. I mean its not entirely possible, can u imagine a sandbox of multiverse travel. it would be impossible to design. But i wish they had multiple endings, or maybe some different choices, then, throw, throw at black people, eat chips till cutscene continues. 

good breakdown too btw

reivaxavier02
reivaxavier02

The ending made me feel DUMB! In the last 4-5 secs of it, I was saying to myself, 'WTF'! Though I had a hunch in mid game that Booker was indeed Comstock (much like INFAMOUS), I still wasn't prepared for this ENDING. Very well crafted.. Good Job Irrational!

pr56
pr56

This was an amazing podcast. Fun Fun Fun.
The first 10 mins sold Bioshock Infinite for me.

The news quiz was awesome too. Great job guys.

yuenster
yuenster

Guys... i know this is abit off off topic... but after i realize this is kind of like multiple time line.. parallel universe i just what to say.... 

El Psy Congroo.....

binderdundat
binderdundat

After the credits, Anna would be in the crib. At the beginning in the light house there is a note about Booker wiping away his debt. This means reversing a debt he has already paid in the past. That note we will find out later, was placed by the Lutece twins. It seems odd that Comstalk would have put the letter there since he already has Elizabeth stashed in the tower. So in essence Booker is getting Elizabeth for the Lutece twins (bring us the girl and wipe away the debt) to fix the issues of creating tears between universes, which normal human beings shouldnt be able to do. By doing this they need Elizabeth to make a tear into an alternate universe, where Booker doesnt get baptized, never making Comstalk a prophet, and not splitting Elizabeth into two worlds (the pinky in the one world and her body in the other), which gave her powers in the first place. If Booker does this, the Lutece twins will have successfully restored balance to the multi-verse, and fulfilling their promise by giving Anna to Booker as the note said in the light house.  

saadomar90
saadomar90

Wow you guys didn't see the Big Daddy and Little sister in the songbird drowning part? That's the biggest symbolism for their relationship. Songbird is the big daddy and Elizabeth/Anna is the little sister. 

luizferrarezzi
luizferrarezzi

seriously, no one paid atention to the ending? they go to the past and kill the guy from the present the one you are controling not the one before the baptism that doesnt change shit. lol

DawgByte2
DawgByte2

So here's a question... does  Booker ever sleep during this whole experience, or does this take place during one long ass day with no break? I mean the player can break, but seemingly, it Booker & Elizabeth do this in the span of what seems one day. 

Marinealver
Marinealver

Total MindF***, Now we go on this alternate universe that explains the begenning and drops this bombshell, but that is not as suprising as what happens next, however the following event really shocks you as on....and on....and on...till they girls kill you.  Next thing to find out that Liz is also the Little Sisters lol.

OPermerup
OPermerup

Since all of the Elisabeths drowned him, it would affect all of their realities, is what I find reasonable. Hence, they disappear one after the other.

CamusKnew
CamusKnew

@SOKOLEK Well first of all, Gamespot is not the company that made Bioshock Infinite, that was Irrational Games. Gamespot is a gaming website. Carolyn and Kevin have no affiliation with Irrational whatsoever, they are merely discussing this game.  This really is not the platform for you to voice your opinions, your just misinformed. If anything is being promoted in this video it is the game itself. Carolyn is as normal as anyone else, stop talking of something you have no understanding of.

Rattlesnake_8
Rattlesnake_8

I just beat the game yesterday, was a great ending.

ccontro23
ccontro23

unlimited amount of possibilities in the multiverse, so if u can wrap ur head around that, anything makes sense in that setting lol

seancrow22
seancrow22

A D might stand for after death where he survived beyond the reality in witch he sacrificed himself and was left w that mark to remind him


saltbalsak
saltbalsak

I love knowing how I could get a job anywhere I wanted because 90% of workers are complete morons

Kind of like how "Infinite" is misspelled throughout this entire video on the warning at the top.

How does anyone involved in this video KEEP their job?

This kind of thing confounds me daily.

jomipira
jomipira

And Bioshock Infinite does not question big themes, what it does is that it preaches you about those big themes. It's quite different to make you think about something and telling you what to think about a subject.

jomipira
jomipira

With every narrative you must create a possibility space. It can be whatever you want, but it must be well defined. Spider Man has spider senses but he does not fly. Jedi control minds but they are not invulnerable to blasters if hit. You can do whatever you want but you must create a coherent possibility space for your world to exist. When you create a really broad one (i.e. my story is set in a dream, my story is a lie, my story is set in every possible universe) what you do is you make any story meaningless. If everything goes, then nothing really matters and nothing really surprises you. It's a dream right? So I can fly or not. It doesn't matter anyway. What Bioshock Infinite does is this. It creates a lazy plot device where everything is possible. So you can say anything and it's all the same. DeWitt is Comstock. Ok. If he was Comstock's son or father it would be ok aswell. It would be the exact same thing. It really doesn't matter. It's all justified.

1blackone
1blackone

18:42 No. not "before he can be baptized". 

HE IS being baptized. 

His daughter/s are literally absolving him of his sins, before they can even happen.

In an early Voxophone (actually the 3rd one behind the greenhouse near the entrance to Columbia) Comstock/Dewitt ponders that if a man pre-batism is a sinner and the one after is a saint, what happens to the man submerged?

He posists that THAT man. THAT man in-between the worlds, goes off to explore a new world where he is both: both sinner yet born anew.


Perfectly explains the post-credits ending. Where he obviously remembers his ordeal and is rushing to find an (assumed) Annabelle in her crib.



MrMisterE
MrMisterE

I thought rapture was in the the middle of the 20th century


luizferrarezzi
luizferrarezzi

the columbia dream: you have to be asleep to believe it.

zowbaid
zowbaid

My brain is totally fried....I don't even care anymore. I'm just gonna find a game that doesn't screw with my head too much....*sigh*

smittjames
smittjames

Tell me they smoked a bowl before this.

sethfrost
sethfrost

Robert A. Heinlein does in a couple pages more mind blowing things than bio.inf in 13-16 hours. The story is called "All you Zombies" and won several SciFi awards. 

 EVERY good book can do more in less time on one page or two? Proust, Joyce, Nabokov ... I could have lived without 15 hours of shooting & brutal violence. 

The fun part today is to listen to other peoples "philoso-wank" on bio.inf. It's becoming a meme of pathetic self-revelation. The more people (game journos in particular, all over the web) talk, the more they reveal about themselves? Very Freudian. See also: Jacques Derrida: "La Voix et le Phénomène" (1967)

kratospete
kratospete

i still don`t understand why the baptism would make booker forget who he  is, and why he became racist, why kidnap your own daughter from the past?,

ziproy
ziproy

The ending was meh at best. It was a good and interesting story until they threw all the unrequired metaphysics at you in an attempt to make the story seem more deep than it actually is.

It wasn't the metaphysics that bothered me, but the lame soap opera twists that came with it. Dewitt is actually past (or current??) Comstock who goes back in time to force himself to give up his daughter, why?? No reason is given why that happens, it just makes for an interesting twist.

Why is the game taking place? The Lutece's are bored or something and want to force the two Dewitts together? To stop a power hungry inter-dimensional Elizabeth, who herself wants to be stopped and yet she still goes and destroys future New York despite she realizes it's wrong. "She can't stop what she's set in  motion dang it!!!!!!" despite the fact she's an all powerful dictator

Rapture's inclusion was more insulting than anything else. You will respond that it's an example of alternate Columbia but that just doesn't pan out. There's no Booker character; the main protagonist of the first game had no prior sins, he was brainwashed. Who he thought he was was a complete lie. There's no Elizabeth, and there's no metaphysical conflict. It's inclusion was just a shallow attempt to recapture nostalgia and to help his shaky metaphysical story. Yeah I did see the Little Sister crying over her dead Big Daddy behind songbird, but then Elizabeth is a single representation of all the alternate reality Little Sister.

If it was an actually well done ending I'd be praising it as you all are now. But IN MY OPINION Levine did not do a good job. He TRIED to make an interesting story; they sat down in story-board room and were like "ok how do we make this story interesting".  You can't make a great story that way. I knew I was going to hate the ending when Levine was hyping it up before the game was released

I'd give the game an 8/10, cuz besides my critique of the ending it was still a fun game. I just wish it had a bit more atmosphere, variety in enemies, and was a slower game like Bioshock and not so ACTION-BACKED EXPLOSION-fest to attract all the CoD fans.

I am prepared to have a discussion so if you'd like to have on comment; maybe you agree with me or think I'm some idiot who's criticizing your favorite game. If you are going to be insulting or rude I will be right back to you so be warned.

Arkhalipso
Arkhalipso

@funkymonkey4710 I think she gets her powers from the tecnology that Comstock and the Lutiers were working on, and somehow they infused that tec into Elizabeth/Anna so she could take Comstock's place in the future. Rapture is just another universe, not one with little alterations like the ones we see in the game but a very different one (It still has a man, a city and a lighthouse). Since Booker dies during his baptism and doesn't become Comstock, Elizabeth/Anna never gains this power and in every universe where she exists she just lives a normal life (That's what I think at least). After the credits, we see Booker in an alternative reality where he never sells his daughter. I don't now if the consciousness of the Booker we played with transfers into this alternative Booker or if it's just a different Booker, but it's nice to see that in at least one of those universes he lives a happy life with his daughter.

LeoKRock
LeoKRock

that made sense. Did Kevin Levine personally explained the gamemto you?

luizferrarezzi
luizferrarezzi

@DawgByte2 yes he was sleeping the whole game. it was a dream. I'm not going to tell about the dream but pay atention they go to the past before the baptism and kill the Booker from present, the one you are controling not the one before the baptism.

hombreg1
hombreg1

@bearcomputerrep no. Booker is the true comstock since he is Elizabeth's father. in the universe where Booker becomes Comstock, Comstock is left sterilized by an experiment perfomed by lutece. this forces him to seek for HIS child in another universe where he can actually have children.

DawgByte2
DawgByte2

@saltbalsak So someone is supposed to get fired for misspelling "infinite"? If this is some form of humor, you failed miserably, dude. It was a little oversight. Big f-in deal. 

hombreg1
hombreg1

@jomipira I disagree. If the ending to the story was to vary with each possible universe, then the story could be thought of as bland. Thanx to the genius of whoever wrote the plot, BI serves as a great example for multiple universe story telling. since the ending is always the same, we actually feel like our contributions where substantial. it is not lazy story telling it is genius.

hombreg1
hombreg1

@sethfrost you sir, even if well read, haven't considered something of outmost importance. the whole point of a book is to tell a story, you can see the character yet you are not involved in the story. interactive media enthralls you to the character so that you become the character in question. you are, you see, you think and evolve WITH the game. of course a book can have moments of sudden revelation but paper is much less powerfull when the matter rests on making your reader, your player, become one with your character. for example, what's written on paper will forever stay that way. In a game, you search, you discover, you do whatever pleases you and that turns you into the character. you're much more free to modify the adornments of the story even if following a set plot.

Zenreaver
Zenreaver

@sethfrost

@sethfrost 

1) Gaming artists create very detailed worlds and they work on immense number of small details due to the nature of their job. Therefore, I think you would do better not underestimate how this tedious zoomed up workload may enable them to construct a deep and consistent story layout. They have a lot of time to listen to their imagination ... 

2) Art is usually a conduit, sometimes causing very irradical, irrational and perhaps unreal thoughts pass a through our minds and perhaps it is those extraordinary thoughts which give us the chance/opportunity to uncover secret truths concealed by the weakness of our perception (like hoe the space time can be curved). Therefore, since Bioshock Infinitie is also  clearly an artistic masterpiece in my opinion,  most probably those venerable authors you have listed in here would be proud of it, too -by the way I have read lots of Nabokov books yet the best criticism against his over liberal ideas was in Bioshock 1... ironic isnt it ?-. 

For myself, I can imagine Flaubert looking at Columbia's night view with content and smile on his face... :) 

By the way calling them video games sounds more and more silly to me each day. 

As a final remark, I do completely agree with you on the irritating density of the shooting issue... Maybe we will witness that someday some AAA games will be able to change their basic formats radically and  take their rightful place as the next art branch like cinema did once ago... 

pierremont
pierremont

@sethfrost this is a good point of view and it needs to be adressed. It is true that other forms of culture can provide more and in less amount of time, but this phenomenon (gaming) has to be judged within its realm: is it a good game and what it has to say? if we really ought to compare it to other media, i'd say it's a lot more interactive, hence it could provide a deeper involvement into the story. If we really ought to compare it to literature, well, this is a topic for a bigger discussion, but you have  to admit that when reading you have to imagine the whole thing in your mind (no book will ever give you every little detail), whilst movies and games do it all for you. You didn't have to picture Elisabeth and Booker, they were as real as any fictional character ever can be. As for why they had to do a talk show, well, the game is deeper to most of the other games, and, well, they're journalist (i haven't read Derrida, maybe I will). They did a good job, in my opinion. Much obliged

dBoy7
dBoy7

@kratospeteThe baptism doesn't make him forget. Going through a tear does (remember what happens to the chinese manufacturer), as it is explained by the Luteces near the end (you replace old memories by new ones, which doesnt exclude the possibility of conflict). You play Booker, so it means you have rejected baptism and lived your whole life with regret. In another dimension you have Comstock, which is yourself after having accepted baptism. Only in this alternate reality, you become INFERTILE (that's the reason). That's why Comstock decides to use the Luteces technology in order to go into Bookers alternate reality to steal/or convinve him to give up (depending on which version of reality you are) his baby (ana/elizabeth) which is, in some way, of the same genetic composition as Comstock...because Booker is Comstock...That makes Ana/Elizabeth, a rightful heir to the "throne".


Read this article :) I suck at explaining...

http://venturebeat.com/2013/03/28/understanding-bioshock-infinites-ending-ending-explanation/

galeta
galeta

@ziproy game mixes many realities to tell its story. there are many plot holes. its ok if you tell this kind of story. coz there are no rules, you invent them as you like.

this is the story as simple as possible: to beat down a dictator, they bring an other version of him to fight himself.

look this way: in one of many realites booker sells his doughter. becomes sorry. baptiesed and borns again as comstock. builds columbia. then goes back in time. buys his doughter from an other version of himself. to beat him down, latuce's bring an other version of himself who never had a daughter in first place.

it's a good story. but i didn't like it. rapture was more realistic place in my mind. columbia's story is just a dream. it feels unrealistic. it would be great if they focused on the flying city concept more than "many doors" kind of stuff. now all bioshock series become an unrealistic dream instead of very possible alternate reality.

csvichf
csvichf

@galeta @ziproy You're wrong, the times that Booker gets baptised after Wounded Knee are the ones where he becomes Comstock, meets Lutece and gets infirtile and ages rapididly due to his use of the tears.

He  sees the prophecies of him passing the torch to Elizabeth to burn New York, since he's death by than due to his rapid aging. Comstock than uses Rosalind Lutece to contact herself in a alternate dimension where she is a he, Robert Lutece. In this universe Comstock is still Booker, as he refused the baptism and he had a daughter where as if he accepted the baptism he wouldn't have had a daughter.

This way Comstock still had a blood-heir, just from an alternate dimension. The thing i don't understand is why would Rosalind Lutece do such a thing?

Comstock kills his wife, in order to keep the secret about Elizabeth and orders Fink to make the deaths of the Luteces (Robert stepped through the tear aswell) seem like a accident, i believe he fiddled with their tear machine and this made them like entities in all dimension or something.