Lol, I always enjoy this video.
I especially love the spontaneous cheer of the crow instead of the forced one at the Microsoft E3 conference.
It's not their choice for control of DRM, it's the publisher's choice.
If let's say a publisher wants you to authenticate your game, then they can just add a download code to redeem online that you have to use before playing.
The new XB ONE console will be exactly half the price of a mid-level gaming PC with the complete functionality of a Media Center PC. Besides games, the only difference between the console and a PC will be the imposing restrictions that will only be possible on the console. With this in mind, I believe that Msoft has essentially re-ignited demand for PC gaming.
Its kind of sad to see people so happy to not have a policy imposed that SHOULD NEVER HAVE EVEN BEEN IN THE BALLPARK OF EVER BEING CONSIDERED ANYWHERE EVER
ok seriously writing out xbone just looks wrong.
xbox1 = nice and clear
XBOX1 = ok yeah understood
XBone = wait.. what?
xbone = huh, is this some new gaming innuendo?
Seriously I mean seriously. After the MS debacle of an announcement to the Xbox One and now E3 with them still sticking to their guns on online check ins and making ridiculous restrictions for lending games and used games. How in the hell can you seriously defend MS after all that has been put on the table. I guess the saying you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink comes full circle here. SMH This is coming from an xbox owner since 2001 and an avid competitive gamer for Halo and Gears. I will be buying a PS4 due to the fact of no restrictions on used games or lending games and the price is excellent. MS is also kicking themselves making the kinect mandatory upon purchase of the Xbox One that would explain the 499 price tag. MS has never been more disconnected from the gaming community then they are now. Even if Microsoft changes its policies which they will guaranteed after they dont make sales projections. I will not go back to Microsoft simply because of their greed.
I could care less if my system checks in every 24 hours. High speed internet is connected 24/7 anyway. I don't disconnect my equipment every time I am done playing, everywhere I travel has internet, and while I do like to play single player games on occasion, I don't DISCONNECT my system to do it. If you cant afford internet, perhaps which console you want to spend hundreds of dollars on should the be the least of your concerns.
Also, I'm by no means rich... but I could care less about being able to buy/sell used games. One isn't stopping ppl from it, they are allowing the companies who make the games to control it, its their product after all. Loaning games to friends doesn't matter either since my friends aren't so hard up for cash they cant afford the games they play... and when they ARE hard up, they don't make playing video games their priority.
I haven't decided which console I want for sure, but right now I am leaning toward One. Although, it has nothing to do with these ridiculous arguments. They have a much better selection of exclusive games that interest me, while the PS4 line up just seems "meh".
@links2000 It's their choice to add an online check every 24 hours for DRM purposes.
@dennis19956 someones in denial
@dennis19956 I hope your Internet connection doesn't go out, It'd suck if you couldn't play the game you paid for on your remote control.
@spindie People are so happy because if sony did it as well then most likely thats the business model that will dominate the industry... without having other option
@spindie microsofts fault, show your appreciation by not buying tra$hbox!
@Andrak_Vol Well it's xbox one so X - Box - one so x + b + one = xbone
@cellular Micro$oft seems to be catering to self centered people who don't seem to understand the implications of these kinds of practices down the road. I rather not support a company that -chooses- to make these kinds of restrictions solely based on the purpose of sucking more money out of fans/consumers. Myself and my friends aren't the kind of people Micro$oft knows they can push this ridiculous change of policy on, so the choice is easy.
Long. Live. Play.
@cellular dude in the place I live, the infrastructure is so haphazard, that the internet going out is a weekly occurrence, its like that in many places because the ISPs don't have to compete with each other often cause they have region locked consumers who only have one choice for service where they live.
@cellular While I could list tons of reasons why this reasoning is stupid, I will only list a few, what about when you move to a new house? I have never, (repeat NEVER) had internet on day one after moving. Not only that I have family in the boonies that only access internet through tethering through their phones.I go and visit them often. Many times for a week or more. Also, what about those in the military on active duty? You think they don't play games? They almost NEVER have internet access onsite. Just wait though, the exclusives ARE COMING. Geez. Is no one paying attention to the line-up being released on PS3 right now? You honestly thing the MASSIVE selection of first party publishers working for Sony don't ALL have something up their sleeve? I believe that Microsoft laid ALL its chips on the table at E3. That is it for them, they tapped every last well they could find until it was dry. Sony didn't even scratch the surface and I am excited to see what they bring. Yes MS announce some EXCITING looking exclusives, no one can deny that. But how much longer can Halo and so forth go one? A large portion of the original fan-base for Halo is gone. The franchise can't keep Xbox afloat forever. what then? Titan Fall looks incredible, but I won't be surprised if in the end the studio shuts down and the producers jump ship to Sony due to lackluster XBOne sales. At least as far as pre-orders are concerned, PS4 is outperforming the XBOne in EVERY gamestop in my area, and by a pretty big margin.
@M3o5nster It is MS's choice to have 24 hour authentication. However, if a publisher wants to, they may also add some control to DRM, such as an authentication code in order to play. So in the end, if a publisher demands that you authenticate your game before playing (whether online or offline) then you would have to play by their rules.
@kyle756 @cellular And most other countries in Europe don't have super fast internet, my pen pal who lives in Slovenia has hella bad ping and his internet drops out at least 3 times a month, Xbox have made their fanbase awfully small now. But as Don said, if you don't have internet buy this new re designed xbox 360!!! GTFO M$ YOU'RE DRUNK. And we haven't even mentioned the problems with Kinect..
@RedSuinit If you're moving to a new house you should have established an internet hookup date beforehand anyway. You don't move into a house without the electricity, gas, and water hooked up too, do you? I mean yes, there's downtime here and there like if the cable or fibre guy misses his hookup appointment, but it should be expected by and handled by you and not a corporation that makes you electronics luxuries. One or two days without games isn't the end of the world.
The Military situation is valid, but moving isn't since the vast majority of ppl aren't moving so often this would be a common occurance rather than just a minor nuisance (ignoring that I DO schedule my service to be connected on day one of moving in).
It may very well be true that Microsoft played every card they had, but the cards they had looked nicer to me. Basing my decision on "what-if"s would be ignorant. If Sony had more to show they should have. At this point I can only go off of what I have seen... and so far the One just looks like a nicer system to me.
(Never have been a Halo fan so that title doesn't factor in for me)
Also, you need to educate yourself on DRM. Digital control of physical hardware is only one aspect of DRM, it's also for the control of DIGITAL content that don't even have a physical aspect at all. Such as iTunes DRM for their music purchases off the iTunes store.
First, that PS4 article is both speculation and possibly completely false. These are unknown, unidentified "sources", who knows who they are, and what they truly know, or if they're just misunderstanding something, lying, or right. It only serves to confuse, and create more unknowns and mystery behind Sonys policies using "information" gathered from second hand sources. That fits the description of a red herring perfectly, I would have just flat out called it a strawman, but I can't say that the misrepresentation of the companies stance is true, false, intentional, or unintentional. Looks like you need to research what the word "fact" means.
Second paragraph from the bottom, this is from MICROSOFT, off the OFFICIAL XBOX ONE PAGE. This SHOULD put your misunderstandings to rest. It applies to all games. ALL OF THEM.
"With Xbox One you can game offline for up to 24 hours on your primary console, or one hour if you are logged on to a separate console accessing your library. Offline gaming is not possible after these prescribed times until you re-establish a connection, but you can still watch live TV and enjoy Blu-ray and DVD movies."
Like I said, you really need to do some better research.
;) Again, it must suck to be wrong.
@RedSuinit You want the final word here? I'll give you a final word.
There, that was easy.
No, the 24 check in is not required at the system level--it's required at the game level, as the article, myself, and even you have said. If a game opts out of license count limiting (the technical term for stopping trades and controlling how many people can play a single copy, btw), then it is simply excluded from the online check system. If the system says, "Hey, there hasn't been a check to verify if this game is original and owned by this user," the game will just respond, "Well I don't care, I don't use the user limit feature. I'm booting up."
No, the one hour check in is not required at the system level. Again, if a game opts out of that system feature it just plays.
No, the second article is not a red herring. It's an article based in fact. It is not an irrelevant, misleading one ~designed~ to tell a lie plausibly. Learn what the term 'red herring' means, for the love of the English language. PLEASE. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_herring
No, the second article is not ~speculation~ or ~false~. That's what you're trying to imply I'm guessing. It's taking information directly inquired about from developers. Just because you don't want to acknowledge that the article exists (in order to strengthen your point rather than hurt it) doesn't mean that it's invalid. On a personal note, you're just starting to sound like a kid whining to his mom about not wanting to go to sleep or something. The truth of the matter is that you need sleep, so go to fucking sleep or shut up about it. Get the hint?
No, dismissing me off as a fanboy (owned a PS3 since launch, a 360 only about two years--quite opposite) does not make your problems go away. You don't magically sound all-knowing and infallibly correct. The PS4 doesn't magically lose it's DRM because you think it should.
No, you wouldn't win if this were a debate, not that I'm really even considering this a competition. Apparently you are though, and making it a personal matter as well. All you've said were lofty, baseless assumptions that your ideal gaming platform of choice is exactly the way you wish it to be and all other competitors are beneath it. I and most everyone else here has experienced this before; it's called the 'hype machine.' You give people a little good information, then over months and months they build up a good idea into a great one, then into an amazing one, then into perfection. Then they get what they've been waiting for and it's 'just' good. It was advertised as good. They got their hopes up and fooled themselves from seeing any potential imperfections. You're doing that, at a rapid pace might I add, with the PS4. A smart consumer would honestly read about flaws and the like before making a purchase. A fanboy buys a product on faith alone calling it the most perfect thing ever.
Finally, NO. I'm done with you. I submit, using the previous evidence against you, that you are not an informed, rational consumer and instead are undeniably just a whining fanboy. You know my policies on fanboys.
...So banana pancakes might be my second favorite kind of pancakes if I had to choose. What's your favorite?
Rather than requiring Xbox One users to have the device always connected to the Internet, Microsoft explained, the console will conduct an online check once every 24 hours in order to ensure that the user still owns the license for the copy of the game they are playing. Users will also be able to access their Xbox One content remotely through, say, a friend's console, but in that case online checks would be performed every hour."
That is from the article YOU posted. It really must suck to be wrong. The 24 hour check ins are required for all games. The second article you posted is nothing but a red herring, PS4 will be the same as the PS3.
Did you even read the articles you posted? It says in the articles that they can opt out of used game fees, but the 24 hour check in is required for all games. Dude I'm done, you don't even read the articles that you post, and you call me an idiot. Classic xbot.
@RedSuinit Oh, so who's resulting to blatant insults now?
No research? Hell no, I didn't need extensive research. Microsoft straight up ANNOUNCED THIS INFORMATION. The online checks? They ONLY happen and ONLY disable a game if the PUBLISHER SAYS SO. If a game has DRM disabled you can just play it like on a 360, completely offline. The trading with friends thing? Again, disabled unless the publisher says they want it. The fee for games that have trade locking? Up to the publisher if they charge the user to unlock a game (likely for the same as an online pass now) or, in the event it was traded in at a store, if they want to charge a fee to the store instead. A lot of publishers have come out and said they'd rather punish the stores and not consumers since the consumer is doing nothing wrong.
You want research? Here, I'll show you how easy it it to pull the fanboy wool from your eyes.
I mean, really? Not that hard.
If you want some good insight into why none of this is really a problem at all, read these in particular:
The fun part about all of this? That's two-fold. On the one hand Sony hasn't said anything at all about their EXISTING and HEAVY DRM system when Microsoft has made official statements before E3 even started and has been talking to the press over the matter. That's, in case you didn't know, because they don't want to have it be a surprise on launch and have people return consoles in a fit. Consumers should know what they're buying before, not after. I honestly think Sony wants to sell consoles blindly and then laugh as people are unknowingly stuck with a DRM-laden box all the same.
The other hand there is that I used to work in this industry (visual effects for film currently) and I have loads of contacts telling me their publishers' policies for XB1. The good? Most publishers have the DRM mostly disabled, a few are punishing resale stores and the rest are mostly switching it all off. The bad? The bigger publishers (like one starting with an 'A' for a big hint) think consumers are dumb and are willing to pay for second-hand fees themselves. The rest I can see, but the fee to users is stupid when a second-hand sale should be in their rights. The stores are the one making rediculous profit at the publishers' expenses, not the gamers. Anyway, my point here is that those same publishers I'm hearing about are, as the grapevine dictates anyway, enacting nearly identical policies on the PS4 as well. DRM exists on every console (PC included with a few exceptions) this generation, DRM will exist next generation as well.
And for the record, DRM is just user rights governing for a game license in the physical world when defined by the DMCA. It's quite literally digital management of rights for a physical purchase, as under the DMCA the disc is not considered to be the purchase. You bought the "contents" of the disc, rather. I use that definition because it's the only legal one, however retarded and unlawful it may actually sound. Online passes however are more like one-time subscription fees for online services, not actual DRM. The publisher's paying to host servers for multiplayer and they have the right to charge a fee when adding another player account to their servers. We don't like it of course, but they do technically have that right.
As for Microsoft as a publisher? Not the way I meant it. Microsoft Game Studios is a publisher, but Microsoft Interactive Entertainment Division (the Xbox hardware team) is in no way related. The hardware division does get a small fee for hosting a game on Live though, something that happens currently on 360 (and PS3 too) and is simply added to the street price. That's why a console game costs $10 more than a PC one, actually.
The interesting thing I've heard (though only from one guy so no telling how true it is)? Microsoft Game Studios, of all publishers, is planning on completely disabling DRM for their games. One of the producers for Turn 10, Dan, has even publicly let it slip that Forza 5 might be completely offline-playable. My point here? Microsoft added the DRM features to their console likely not for their own benefit, but because third-party publishers were demanding it and they didn't want to lose support of those publishers. Sony apparently had the same issue and silently did the same. Don't blame them for wanting their consoles to actually have games. Blame the publishers for restricting their own games.
So, think you can play by your own rules and actually do some basic research yourself? Google's first page is all you need for this stuff, not hours of hunting, and it actually makes you have weight behind your words.
Oh, and one thing I'd like to redact is that EA stopped the Online Pass program because of the new DRM, as many including myself have guessed. In fact, EA has come out and said they plan to have absolutely no DRM enabled on their games either. That's a good move for them and I endorse more open statements from publishers. I never thought I'd ever have a chance to say this, but good for EA. :3
@carbonFibreOpti @RedSuinit This shows how blind you really are. Microsoft has made it so that the physical media and the game itself can only change ownership one time, and that if you aren't connected online, NONE OF THE GAMES WORK. That is DRM you dumbass. Microsoft also makes money off every first party title because THEY ARE THE PUBLISHER.
General rule of mine for talking to morons that don't do their research first, correct them when they're wrong.
Also, online passes ARE DRM YOU IDIOT! Do you even understand what DRM is?
@RedSuinit @carbonFibreOpti You read my FACTUAL comment, detailing that Microsoft is NOT in charge of the DRM. Then you state a supposed counter-argument based on the entire concept that Microsoft is actually 100% controlling the DRM and in it for profit. Here's a little reality check, sunshine. Microsoft makes ZERO money by having DRM and as we've seen even risks losing paying customers over it. Publishers stand to make $5-10 per re-sold game and have nothing to lose, because if it becomes an issue they can disable the DRM and go back to online passes and heavy on-disc DLC. This is factual, and cannot be proven wrong unless you have the amazing superpower of clairvoyance.
My retort? You are plain-as-day wrong yet proving the definition of insanity by keeping at your baseless argument. I'll be happy to talk, discuss, or even argue--but only if everyone brings something to the table. My general rule for the whiners and fanboys just happens to be gibberish, and you should expect that if your own words make no sense as well. Fighting pointlessness with more pointlessness.
@dennis19956 @RedSuinit @carbonFibreOpti Says the person that can't even construct a proper sentence, or spell the word "dumb" correctly. Braindead morons such as yourself are the ones that refuse to see the Xbox One for what it really is, Microsoft strong arming gamers to see if they can get away with it. It's ignorant neanderthals such as yourself that are going to turn the gaming industry into a DRM infused corporations fucking the consumers raw, world..
@carbonFibreOpti @RedSuinitNow to your DRM comment. Microsoft, NOT PUBLISHERS, are only going to allow a disc to change hands one time. ONCE. Not only that, you have to be friends with someone for 30 days in order to GIVE it to them. You can give it to someone else if it's been less than 30 days, but then they have to pay a fee. THESE ARE MICROSOFTS POLICIES. NOT PUBLISHERS! The PS4 is going to be exactly the same as the PS3, and one of the largest publishers that push the online passes and such methods of DRM (EA) is DROPPING DRM ALTOGETHER.
The reason I am vocal about this is because I truly believe that this is a big and bold step in the WRONG direction that will negatively impact gamers down the road. Microsoft still has time to change its policies, the only question is if it will or not. If we don't stand up to these brutish policies they will never change, but if we speak with our wallets by NOT giving them money they will change. By that point though, it may already be to late.
@carbonFibreOpti @RedSuinit Of course they both want to make money, but do you know how to do that in a consumer market? CATER TO THE CONSUMER. Sony is doing that, Microsoft isn't, therefore it is clear that Microsoft believes that we NEED them. If they truly took a GOOD business model, a CONSUMER FOCUSED business model, they would LISTEN to their customers. Guess what, THEY DON'T. When a company believes that it's product is something that people HAVE to have, that is when you see the companies true face shine through, and Microsoft is showing off their true colors right now. You can live in your sad state of denial all you want to, but business is business, and right now Sony is in the business of making money by giving people what they want. Microsoft is in the business of making money by squeezing it out of their customers by force.
To your internet point. No they are not responsible for it, who has ever claimed otherwise? What we are saying is that NOT EVERYONE HAS IT. SO REQUIRING IT TO BE ABLE TO USE THE XBOXONE IS A STUPID FREAKING MOVE BY MICROSOFT. THE ONLY REASON IT IS THERE IS BECAUSE THEY DON'T TRUST THEIR CUSTOMERS AND ARE FORCING THEM TO PURCHASE BRAND NEW GAMES EVERYTIME THEY MAKE A PURCHASE. That's what it comes down to, and Microsoft is really shooting themselves in the foot. If you want to make money, listen to your costumers because they speak the loudest with their wallets.
That said, and excuse the text-shouting but apparently the point wasn't taken the first time, MICROSOFT AND SONY ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR YOU HAVING INTERNET. That is the point of what I said, not "Microsoft is being greedy by making me pay for internet" or something like that. If you can afford an XB1 or a PS4, you can afford even the most basic of internet. Hell, almost half of the games shown by Sony were downloadable indie games. Their backwards compatibility is through a streaming service, one that will cost an extra fee to use. Even Sony is effectively saying you need an internet connection to use most of your purchase.
And for the record, you do NOT need a constant connection for the XB1. You need a split second and an email worth of data, once every 24 hours at most. If you go three weeks without internet or playing a game, it does the check right then and there as the game boots up. No biggie.
Also for the record? Microsoft just set that as the default, and Sony uses the same sort of system and just set the default to no checks. A publisher can require constant internet to play, on either system. A publisher can make you check in every twelve years if they wanted. Microsoft and Sony on the other hand... can't do anything. Don't get mad at Microsoft for having DRM (especially when the PS4 has it too); get angry at the publisher that allowed the game to USE the DRM. It's EA, Activision, Ubisoft, etc. that benefit from the DRM checks, not Microsoft.
Make sense why EA no longer uses online passes now? Because they can blame Microsoft for DRM with greedy grins stretched over their faces and more money in their pockets.
@carbonFibreOpti @RedSuinit The point is that it shouldn't be that way, feasability, etc. isn't the issue, it's the entire mindset of the corporation. Microsoft has taken it's stance and said that "You need us more than we need you." and that is a sickening standpoint to take. Sony however has taken the complete opposite stance, "We need you more than you need us." The central issue is business attitude, and consumer treatment. Sony is doing it right, and Microsoft is doing it wrong. They're saying that they don't trust their consumers, so they're going to force them to obey whatever rules Microsoft think are appropriate and necessary. I don't think that is right, and that attitude is just going to lead the gaming industry down a dark path that will eventually lead to it's destruction. Not only that, the whole 24 hours regular connectivity completely locks out very rural areas. I went for years without internet at my house outside of fairveiw, and when we finally did get internet, it was dial-up, and horrid reliability. Then we moved to Sat-net, and that was even worse. Trust me, those situations do exist, and in a lot of the country, even to this day.
@Klyern @carbonFibreOpti @Jestersmiles , i don't really care abt all the arguments in the world .the fact is that MS want to impose something on us for no valid reason at all . We deserve to have the choice to switch off the internet , the kinect and all the other crap . you buy a game for 60$ , you have the right to do whatever you want with it , give it to a friend , sell it , throw it from your window, you freaking payed 60$ for it . we bought the product it is our right do to wathever we want with it. different ppl like to game in different ways. give us the choice to do it how we want! i was an xboxfanboy but i won't stand to this...
@Jestersmiles You don't need stable. You need half a second and an email worth of uploaded data. If you're talking about playing games online or using something like Netflix though, the whole argument over internet connectivity is moot anyway. Your bad ISP in that case isn't Microsoft or Sony's concern, nor is it either of their responsibility to provide you a quality hard line.
@Jestersmiles How are they any better off now then.... if you want to play a game online now you have to be .... online... facepalm. Both new systems will require a stable connection for online play. Everyone is throwing around this argument and it makes no sense. If sooooooo many people cant play online.... then guess what, they aren't playing online this gen either.
@Jestersmiles I'm with you there. I used to live in the boonies outside of Fairveiw TN, and internet was about as reliable as a Gremlin or a Pacer from AMC.
@Jestersmiles not sure where you are in the US, but every single person I play with has a stable enough connection to play online. Even if they didn't this would have 0 bearing on how the Xbox works.
You don't have to play every game online, the system just checks once a day. But online games will ALWAYS require a stable connection to play online. How Xbox decides their system should work has no impact on this at all. Online play requires online connection, that's just basic logic.
@cellular @RedSuinit That great for but most people in America Don't have stable internet connection , so have fun playing when most of your friend list can't connect online ;)
@cellular @RedSuinit I admit that MS had an impressive line-up, but one thing that they clearly don't have is a gamer-centric mindset. I mean, look at the support for independent production studios, it's those studios that become the next Bungie. They're the ones who produce the next Halo, or Gears, or Uncharted, or Tomb Raider. The future of gaming has always been and always will be the future of gaming, and the Sony has clearly given indie developers a better platform and opportunity, especially with self-release capabilities. That is just flat out amazing. One of the BEST games I have ever played was Bastion, and indie title. If you haven't played it, DO IT! Haha.