So, is this a heathfire add on? When I turn on my consile will I get this question option and my character will automatically turn into Robb Stark? I would like to see Robb and Cat destroy Roose Bolton and Filch, I mean Walder Frey though!
I read the book years ago and felt sick watching them in walk into Frey's twin towers in the TV show. I like how you show the wolf free like that - if Grey Wind hadn't been locked up, things may indeed have turned out differently!
Lame. If you used Skyrim to reenact the scene, that would have been cool. Vaguely-Robb chopping his way through vaguely-Frey-soldiers is not cool.
Having read all the books I honestly feel bad for everyone who got sucked in to watching the show. You've got some interesting events coming up in the show, but after that the story is akin to Daenerys journey through the red waste, endless, dry, and completely devoid of life.
In short the story goes no where.
I love/hated the ending because so good but so NOOO... But yeah guess it would have been cool if Rob went down in a fight.
"The Rains of Castamere" was the best episode so far in Game of Thrones. True, the ending with the Red Wedding was sad and gruesome, but that's how the story goes. After re-watching the episode, the producers clearly put a lot of thought into making this episode. Very well executed!
I've read the books, but for some reason, it still kinda caught me off-guard. IDK, perhaps it's because I was half-expecting Martin to change things (like Kirkman does for TWD). Boy, was I wrong. LAWL
Mr. Martin, I think I speak for everybody (or at least most of us now,lol) when I say this: We all still love you, but on this one particular case, you #@&$ing suck, sir.
I was DEVASTATED last week when i saw the episode but you know what? I started thinking about it a little deeper over the past few days and i have increasingly less and less sympathy for Robb. Him and the Starks were CLEARLY designed for the audience to love and root for but he had serious arrogance to think he could just cross a prominent lord like that then just walk right in there like it was cool. Take a look at the other characters in this story like Terion or Daenaryes who have no control over who they can marry. That was a major theme this season with Tywin ordering his kids into marriages they don't approve of. There is a lesson here, people don't just get what they want and if you make a deal with someone, don't expect them to be cool about it when you screw them over.
Weather or not Frey would still have killed him on Lanister orders is another matter but the bottom line is that other characters in this story are not getting what they want in the manner that Robb Stark expected he could.
Game of Thrones has proven to be a ridiculous story written by someone that has no idea how to please their audience. I think the author has some sort of sadistic motive to pull the audience in, gut them, and then cut out their heart. If this sort of thing entertains you I am glad I don't know you. Game of Thrones is dead... enjoy the results of your red wedding.
They're killing way to many of the protagonists i GoT. I love the element of surprise and knowing that no character is safe but this is just crazy! If at least Rob had gotten the chance to fight back he could have died with some honer more suitable of his character - like in this film. Instead his last words are "mother" and then he dies like a little pup. It makes no sense and is of no satisfaction to the viewer. I agree with Ryderych; the writer seem to use plot twists without a larger goal in mind. I hope this will change.
I haven’t read the books, but I’ve taught literature at the undergraduate level. From what I've seen so far, Martin is a hack writer who uses purple prose and sensational plot twists merely to shock and disorient his readers. Several times he's foreshadowed Good destroying Evil, and then has had Evil spring a nasty surprise and turn the tables. Now Daenerys, the Mother of Dragons, who's overcome every obstacle--whole city-states, warlocks, treachery--seems to have assumed the mantle of Righteous Avenger (perhaps Arya will assume this role; she is a Stark). If Martin perpetually destroys the Lannisters' foes, then he’s not unconventional, he’s not breaking boundaries—he’s just using gimmicks cheaply because he can. I’ll give this show one more season, and if my conclusion holds true it’ll be OK: I can free-up time in my viewing schedule for something else. (And I won't be reading any replies; spoilers are inevitable).
Consider I backed the Lannisters from the very beginning, I am actually very happy with how the Red Wedding turned out. Now only Stannis and Daenerys to worry about, Yes I know there are others, but no spoilers for the non-readers.
All i have been reading from GOT fans is "ohh i didnt read the books yet" or "I have yet to read the book!" Jesus why on earth would you guys want to read a boring ass book? Besides the fact that you already KNOW what will happen, the graphics are terrible, the boobs look dull, your eyes get tunnel vision, you fall asleep... If it werent for the show nobody would even know what game of thrones was!! so stop kidding yourselves like it would have JUST SO HAPPENED that you read/took interest in a random book about a boring ass time period without the show having influenced you first.. Plus if you go ahead and read the book than that will just ruin what is left of the actual good thing.. the show
@Kroden The last book, with john in the north was pretty epic.
@amillionhp But then again, and I know this was not conveyed in the show for obvious reasons, Robb was only 15 (in the books). Still young, and still acting on a young impulse. That's what made the scene so grim for me. That, and the scene was in the point of view of Catelyn in the novel. I know what you're saying about screwing people over and not expecting to get away with it, but for me the real tragedy is that Robb was still too young and naive to really understand that.
@amillionhp so people dont get what they want in GoT? look at Dany... then say that again. yea she;s been through a lot.. but she got 3 dragons out of it not to mention an army. Robb put honor above all else.. is that a reason to die? not in my book. The Starks are loved by the audience for a reason.
@amillionhp It's not that Robb walked in like it was cool because he was arrogant., it's that Robb's weakness is he always looks for the good in the people even if it wasn't there and he truly believed if he apologized there would be forgiveness
@amillionhp I hear what you're saying, sir. About everybody NOT getting what they want, about things being bad for EVERYBODY. That's all well and good, I agree. But the thing is, things are NOT bad for everybody. Tywin successfully "defended" King's Landing, Jaime is happily on his way home (sans a hand), Tyrion gets a pretty young Stark, Joffrey & Cersei both get pretty young Tyrells (boohoo,how terrible). But the Starks have been getting all the luck now, have they? Let's see: Home, nope, father, nope, family, nope... oh I know! Robb finally found the love of his life & got a son! Oh wait, right... not even that now.
As you can see, your point about unfairness & people thinking they can get everything was indeed correct. Only you should have directed it at the Lannisters. Not the Starks. For they, never get anything.
@hlmcpherson can you write it better? just stfu
They died in the books, well not his wife he leaves her behind.
The story has moved on a bit from there the Starks were just another side playing the Game of Thrones... and they didn't know how to play, thus unsurprisingly they lost on the political side of things.
The King who lost the North.
@hlmcpherson yeah how much of the book have you read...
I'm guessing none.
@hlmcpherson I loved GOT more after this episode! Go see your American-happy ending-I am one and kill 80 and i took the girl-movies and let us be! Warning: Do not see : Titanic,Braveheart etc. Not for u!
@hlmcpherson Oh yeah. Let's make it be so typical, huh? Let's make the show so obvious and cliche. Get over yourself. Your only speaking for you and you don't mean much considering the popularity of the show.
The latest episode proved how good and dramatic things could get. Period. It proves anything is possible and nobody is safe.
@hlmcpherson Then don't watch it. Let us others who enjoy it watch it.
@hlmcpherson Just because the writer isn't making it soft and mushy and having the good guys win all the time doesn't make it a bad series. Its incredibly well written and produced as a TV seriers, the whole thing has millions of follwers. The Red Wedding was awesomely done and GoT is far from dead. Don't knock it if you don't like it, just stop watching.
No goal in mind? Really? What have the Starks been muttering for centuries? "Winter is coming"? Seems like no one will be there to hold the North when the Others come. Mayhap this might've been a setup? Mayhap.
@Ryderych you criticize the writing of books you have not read? you should really stop teaching literature.
@spindie no imagination either as books activate all of the senses wich come from imagination
@spindie So you have never read a book in your life I take it.
Oh, I completely agree. About him making a mistake, breaking his vows. Especially when Roslin was presented, right? LOL! But no, sir, NOT about the arrogance. Maybe at first (hey,he's a young king). But he learned. He
humbly told Edmure, you're paying for my mistake, Uncle, I'll remember
it. He apologized to his mother for not listening to her. He apologized
to Walder. Heck, he even graciously BEGGED the half-dozen spinsters for
forgiveness, LAWL. And he's a bloody King! I've met lesser people who
won't ADMIT to making a mistake, much less beg for forgiveness. The
truth is, if Walder wasn't a bitter and vindictive old man, it would
have been fine.
So Robb's mistake was not of arrogance. He showed as much humility as a King could be REASONABLY asked to. His mistake was of a strategic or even political nature. Marrying a foreign Lady with nothing to contribute to the war machine. Executing that Karstark just for killing Tywin's nephew, losing half of his army in the process, which in turn forced him to go back to the Freys in the first place. And THEN trusting Walder, LOL! If you'll look at these mistakes, you'll see that they're LESS about arrogance, than about innocence and being blinded by "love and honor." Which is exactly what happened to his father, right? So in that sense, I guess you may be right after all, LOL. Perhaps he DID deserve to die. In Martin's world, evil is blessed and you DARE not love or be good, lest you have your throat cut, or worse.
He is asking a high ranking lord to rebel against the king, and thus bow to him in the process and surrender control over Walder's armies so that he can use them to take Casterly Rock. Given the fact he agreed to the marriage deal earlier, only to disregard it afterwards... Yeah, I'll call that arrogance even if he tried to apologize. It just wasn't a good decision, especially coming from someone that claims he can't afford missteps. Not saying Walder wasn't a scumbag for doing that.
Well in tyrion's case, he just is not marrying the woman he wants period. I'm talking strictly about marriage, not necessarily about the overall bad situation for the Starks. If Robb is going to scold his uncle for not following orders a while back, and thus jeopardizing the war effort... I mean come on... He has got to realize pissing off a lord who possesses a significant amount off assets was not a smart idea. All I'm saying is he was arrogant for doing that if he tells everyone else that he can't afford any mistakes due to the war disadvantage.
@Lowri001 I sgree completely about the TV series as a video narrative. Fantastic. Brilliant. I used to teach film studies too. I'm talking about authorial gimmickry. I'm not talking about Martin giving us ponies and rainbows; that'd be just as cheap, and probably cheesy too. If he proves me wrong, great. I'll be thrilled. But I've heard his own fans describe him as a sadist, and sadists inflict pain for pain's sake and their own enjoyment. Perhaps his fans are misusing the word. Again, I'll hold my final judgment in abeyance until I see more.
@Tyradrien @NightLord47 I was thinking more in terms of character development. I feel Robs character didn't get the proper ending it deserved. He goes from being one of many Stark pups to a great leader, then dies like a wounded animal, crying for his mother...It just didn't feel like a worthy ending for such a strong character. As for the plot, Rob didn't need to die for the North to be unguarded. He could have been captured for example...becoming a vengeful, caged animal just waiting to be unleashed. Killing him instead just seems like a cheap gimmick to get a rise in the audience.
@Ryderych @Lowri001 I really must be a sadomasochist then, because GRRM's dirty tricks always give me a grim smile. For me, it's just the antidote to boring, silly, unrealistic happy endings. People often seem to have an assumption in fiction that things will work out for the best. I enjoy seeing that destroyed :)
@NightLord47 But in real life, things are not set up for anyone to have a grand ending. The Lannicasters don't play by the same roles as the Starks. The Lannicasters were losing battle after battle. Do you think they were going to allow him to continue to do as he did? Of course not. They don't have honor. The Starks do and it was showed in that episode twice. They fight fare, Lannicasters don't.
@Andrew1073 @teufelherz @Ryderych As I said, I'll watch another season, which is the second half of book 3. Regarding finishing the series, I'm fairly certain Martin isn't going to complete it. He's entered a development deal with HBO. Develop what? That sounds like doing projects based on his other works, or maybe even a new IP, and he hasn't even finished ASOIAF. He's 64 (65 this year), he's obese. and he's s very slow writer. I believe he's writing the ASOIAF "compendium" so he can toss a bone to his fans. Honestly, I think he's run out of energy and ideas. Perhaps he'll relent and let another writer finish the series after he dies. I'm not holding my breath.
@Andrew1073 @teufelherz @Ryderych The major plot points are Martin's, yes? He's worked closely with the show's creators and writers. Ned's fate, Rob's fate, Tyrion's setbacks--these are major plot points Martin himself created. So all of those things are on him. Big stuff: story arc, plot elements, themes. As I said. I'll watch for one more season. I'll see.