Discussion

69 comments
theflashxwmc
theflashxwmc

F-these myspace advertisements before videos. Nobody wants to use that site anymore.

somatzu
somatzu

get this emo dork outta my face!

Sammy296
Sammy296

Don't quite understand all the hate for Cage. He is a pioneer and seems to generally care about emotion and storytelling in games. And appears to be devoted to the advancement of our medium as a true art form. For this alone he deserves some respect and praise, how skilled he is at carrying it out is personal opinion.

platinumking320
platinumking320

well the choices are still mechanically rigged to a choice or dialogue tree. You can't make enough game pad inputs to have the full range of human responses to challenge or stimuli, unless they're hypothetically mapped to an entire computer keyboard. (yikes)

But  then again, is how many choices does the player need? and Mass Effect / Deus Ex's tree is pretty much all the player needs for expression, when most game situations are reactionary.

CaveManCobb
CaveManCobb

You don't need technology to have an emotional experience. You need good writing and good direction. David Cage has neither. I am baffled as to why people like his games.

Nibraybirk
Nibraybirk

I liked Heavy Rain, but it was pretty linear. What David Cage is doing is making interative movies. Which means very little "gameplay". If Mr. Cage wants emotion to drive a story he should write a book. The visuals of a game will always be important. But you can't make a game on that alone.

avok23
avok23

Failed director trying to make games like movies. This guy is an overrated hack.

worlock77
worlock77

Too bad Cage couldn't write an emotional story if his life depended on it.

Kamina85
Kamina85

Heavy Rain: great graphics BUT bad voice acting, countless plotholes, kids who act five years more immature and stupid than kids their age do, the female lead has to either show skin and/or be in a rape-y situation in all of her chapters, the solution to the mystery contradicts entire chapters, and the climax is hilariously ridiculous

The Walking Dead: simple comic book graphics that are nothing to write home about BUT great voice acting, little to no plotholes, far more engaging characters, and a climax that is intense and incredibly emotional. Also, CLEMENTINE.


Yeah Cage, stop worrying about making the story look "pretty" and actually write good characters and a competent story that is complemented by voice actors who can actually emote. I don't care how realistic everyone's expression is if the story and voice acting don't make me feel like I'm looking at a developed character.

Xyekenvort
Xyekenvort

Even though Journey's gameplay is minimal, its story is infinitely better than Heavy Rain could ever hope to be...

ivan_osorio
ivan_osorio

Gone Home: Compelling stories without a single animated face.

Thomas Was Alone: Relatable and endearing rectangles.


Yes, it is quite obvious that high-definition graphics are indispensable to good storytelling and emotional content. *rolleyes*

Xyekenvort
Xyekenvort

Whoever says FFXIII is a movie, can basically go f*** himself...

max-hit
max-hit

David Cage is like a fucked up movie director who was never good enough for movies. I've seen more emotions in 2D indie games than the garbage he produces.

Xristophoros
Xristophoros

i'm tired of the cage haters out there. you don't like his video game philosophy? that's fine, don't play his games then. heavy rain exceeded its sales expectations for a reason. there are millions of people out there who like what he is doing and are looking for a different type of experience. how does having more varied options to choose from bad for the industry?  

Xyekenvort
Xyekenvort

Dear Mr. Cage,

If you want to make movies, you should just make movies.

Sincerely, anyone who cares about gameplay...

Garm31
Garm31

I like actually playing games, not watching them. If I want  to watch a movie, I'll watch a real movie.

Zidaneski
Zidaneski

I will definitely get Beyond. I passed on Heavy Rain but Beyond looks like there is a lot more story here. 

frozenux
frozenux

There is reason why there is "video" in "video games" so this idea that visuals are irrelevant is absurd.The more polygons you get on a face model,the more surface you can animate and the more accurately you can convey, in a convincing way, human emotions/facial expressions.I'm not really a fan of Qdream games but as far as the tech goes i'm looking forward its application in other games.The tech as been around for years,mainly in  3d animated movies,i think it's time for games to fully use it too.

damodar_thade
damodar_thade

Loved Indigo  Prophecy and Heavy Rain, can't wait to play Beyond: Two Souls.

nishanth12
nishanth12

Wow, srly all you haters out there need to play Heavy Rain ASAP! If anything the past of quantic dream tell us that this game is gonna be awesome

Sun-Tzu-GE
Sun-Tzu-GE

Hey kids,let's hate on polygons because that the new cool hipster thing to do.

SpinDie25
SpinDie25

"hello?.. game company?" "yes sir what can we do for you?" " well um yeah there is a ellen page in my video game? How do i get the ellen page out?"

Deadly_Nemesis
Deadly_Nemesis

David Cage:*waves finger* Emotions,Emotions,Emotions,Emotions,Emotions,Emotions,Emotions,Emotions *nipple rub!*

Sun-Tzu-GE
Sun-Tzu-GE

Also it blows mind when people bash the idea of more polygons like shitting on good graphics is the new cool thing to do right now....Like striving for better quality visuals is a bad thing....Like they (a bunch of hipsters with their nose full of snot who haven't done anything creative in their entire life) know better than a developer who is known to make good games.   

max-hit
max-hit

@Sammy296 Emotions and storytelling in games have been done better and more effective in true games. Bioshock, Dark Souls, To the Moon, and many others for example. A game doesn't need to have motion capture and movie like cut-scenes to create emotions. There are other movies out there that are a lot better than the garbage he produces. That being said, gameplay is what defines a game not "motion captured emotions".


EDIT: He deserves the hate because he is using specific terms such as "emotions" and "technology" as an advertisement tool. And he thinks he's the only one who knows how to make a game with a story. 

hystavito
hystavito

@Sammy296But who says that games need to be more like movies in order to advance the medium and make it a true art form?  Why do we need to borrow things from other arts in order to validate gaming as art?  Why can't a game without a deep and emotional story be considered art?

I'm all for accepting different kinds of games that are outside the norm, but what bothers me is that usually when those arguments come up people aren't just asking gamers to accept them or be open minded.  Usually they are saying, either outright or subtly hinting, that these different games are better than the mainstream ones.  That suggestion is present when people make statements like "advancement of our medium as a true art form".

dogbert784
dogbert784

@Sammy296 Some people are just jealous they can't merge innovative storytelling and gameplay like he and his team can. Some people don't like him because they hate anyone smarter than themselves by default. 

ChristysXmas
ChristysXmas

@ivan_osorio He never says realistic graphics are indispensable to good storytelling in every game. But it's important in his games. It's his way to achieve this goal.

max-hit
max-hit

@Xristophoros 'Game philosophy'?! hehe... The only thing he has is an advertisement philosophy.

Breyant
Breyant

@Xristophoros I like his games and I like what he's doing but you have to admit, his pompous attitude and constant talk about emotion does get a little tiring...

Xyekenvort
Xyekenvort

@Xristophoros I don't hate the man, I don't even know him, but he doesn't have a "game philosophy". He just focuses on storytelling, which Heavy Rain clearly showed. Game implies gameplay, and Heavy Rain had virtually none other than pressing buttons to progress the story.

Reason why Heavy Rain succeeded so much was not only because it was marketed up the ass as the greatest thing ever, but also because nowadays there are more gamers who think if a story is bad then the game is automatically bad without considering other things. The industry is a total joke nowadays, and those who grew up in the Atari 2600/NES/SNES/Genesis era know it better than anyone...

CrouchingWeasel
CrouchingWeasel

@Sun-Tzu-GE  

Wrong. People are sick to death of the insane rush towards photo-realism at the expense of innovative & unique gameplay. Shit wrapped in a bow with gold sprinkles is still shit.

Sammy296
Sammy296

@max-hit @hystavito Good points, however i am absolutely not saying that cage's work is any better than the mainstream, or that you need what he is describing to invoke emotion in games. Some of the most emotional games I've played have had nothing in the way of mocap or well known actors, for example FFVII, FFIX and To the moon.

However saying "he deserves the hate" is just wrong. He is adding variety to our industry and pushing technological capability. you may hate his work but don't hate the man for it, simply play something else.

Remember David Cage has genuine passion for this industry, you may think his passion misguided, but its passion none the less. For this i take my hat off to him.

dkade
dkade

@max-hit I don't get how you can talk so badly about someone who cares about games more than you and is actually working hard to make them better while you rant on a gamespot comment section. "He deserves the hate because he is using specific terms such as "emotions" and "technology" as an advertisement tool." Who doesn't? Seriously have you not seen any trailers for movies or games. There really is no reason to call the work this man produces "garbage" just because you prefer "gameplay" over complex story telling and rich emotional acting. Games can have both. I really don't even see why you hate this guy. He's just doing his job. You really need to learn to use that brain of yours because all you're doing now is spewing hot air that no one needs.

Xristophoros
Xristophoros

@Breyant fair enough. he doesn't need to constantly hit us over the head with his ideas. people know what he stands for now so he should turn it down a bit and let the games speak  for themselves. 

Xristophoros
Xristophoros

@Xyekenvort i grew up in the NES era and have seen it evolve to its current state. i understand where you're coming from. if anything, the indie scene is filling the gap that you speak of and creating great games that are a throwback to the 90s and earlier. it sounds like you are nostalgic more than anything and want to relive the past. if you have a preference for those types of games, there is now an outlet for that. yes, heavy rain is heavily story focused, but who said video games can't be something else than just twitchy gameplay? heavy rain is a fine example of an interactive experience. it puts you in the role of the character in ways that a movie cannot do since you control the direction the story goes in. it's a "game" since you makes choices and there are consequences to your actions. heavy rains success has nothing to do with the marketing. it  has more to do with people looking for a different experience in their games and being burnt out from the same old cookie cutter crap being released. it's totally fine if you don't like heavy rain, but you should judge it on its own merits and not compare it to the traditional games you grew up with. it's trying to be something different and succeeds in that.  

ivan_osorio
ivan_osorio

@Xyekenvort The most ironic part was how the story in Heavy Rain ended up being complete garbage.

I found the "gameplay" pretty engrossing though. Visceral moments really felt visceral and the control scheme was actually pretty great if you could get past the QTE fest concept.


I enjoyed Heavy Rain quite a bit. But everything Cage says makes me want to get his games less. I miss the time when developers just made the game and got the money out of it, instead of becoming these pseudo-celebrity that feel they have to defend agendas and ideals...

Your game is your platform. Let it speak for itself...

max-hit
max-hit

@Sammy296 I don't hate David Cage, I hate the way he keeps using the same statements to imply that what he does is unique, and it's the best, and that he's the only one who can do this, blah blah blah. David Cage is just a marketing figure and I believe he absolutely has no passion for gaming as a form of art; passion for industry and marketing, maybe.

And as for the technology, I strongly believe that he is not making changes or innovations of any sort. He's spending a lot of money to make use of as many already existing methods and devices as he can.

To wrap up, at the end his product will sell thanks to all the marketing materials such as a famous actress name, overused motion capture advertisements and all that. But what really his game is about is button-mashing and QTEs which I have no problem with the existence of such a things (good for those who enjoy it). What bothers me is the fact that he gets to keep thanking and appreciating himself just because the big supporting company above him gives him different types of media to speak through them. 

max-hit
max-hit

@dkade

Play more games. 

If you think Ellen Page and Willem Dafoe mean "rich emotional acting" Then watch more movies.

I don't hate anyone.

Garbage is garbage.

 David Cage and whoever thinks like him doesn't have a vivid understanding of what a video game is.

Xyekenvort
Xyekenvort

@Xristophoros But that's the thing...I do judge it for what it is, an absolutely shallow gameplay experience with an incredibly flawed story.

I get that Heavy Rain wants us to be engrossed, but the underdeveloped characters, contradicting events and glaring plotholes draw you back from the only thing the game is really trying to achieve - an engrossing story.

I don't care what you're trying to do with the paradigm of games, but if you're going to make a game you have to make good gameplay. Period.