Feedbackula - GTA V Review Revulsion
We reviewed Grand Theft Auto V recently, giving it a very impressive 9/10. This made a lot of our community furious, and Johnny has a thing or two to say about it.
by Johnny Chiodini on
Johnny is awesome! I'm a retired gamer (college happened, unfortunately) but I still watch his show and keep tabs on the industry. It's a shame people do such things.
Personally, I love Gamespot's hard scale. If they give a game a 10 (Like they did for Metal Gear Solid 4), I'll know it is a can't miss game and I'll check it out. Keep up the good work!
Jonnny dont worry there will always be those who troll, regardless of whether feedbackula is there or not so its not anybodys fault.
No, gamespot is shit because they act surprised when they get trollish comments when they put out a weekly feature encouraging trollish comments.
Dear GameSpot, please do realise, it's not the score itself that bugs us. It's the INCONSISTENCY of the score and total lack of understanding why you give them, how you give them etc. I have no Idea why one game gets 9.0 while the other is 9.5. I have no idea and no understanding. And you guys give us nothing here. THAT IS WHY WE ARE SO DAMN FRUSTRATED.
As for GTA5, sorry, but one of the reasons why the game got lower score - Politically muddled and profoundly misogynistic - seems totally irrelevant. THIS IS NOT WHAT THE GAME IS ABOUT. This is not the game about women, this is not the game about feminist or sexist issues. It's a gangsta crime simulator, it's GTA5 for crying out loud. Of course it is "Politically muddled and profoundly misogynistic". It's like blaming Diablo for being blasphemous. It is Diablo, but It is not about Jesus. And GTA is not about feminism.
So please... This was the most unoppropriate place to play this sexist-feninst game. This is the reasion why we actually have this caricature image of the angry feminist... So please, future reviewers, take it easy and try to show just a little more of sense of humour...
@Mishyana I didn't say any of that and I certainly did not flip out. I never owned any GTA game, my last console was Super Nintendo and there is not much chance I can play major titles on my 2011 MacBook Pro. So you might see, nothing personal here about GTA itself. I am really glad that GameSpot raised the issue of how seriously we should treat games and what should be the approach to reviewing them.
This is where I tried to communicate my message to GameSpot. Gamers are often so angry at the reviewers here because the reviewes are not consistent from one to another. They are highly subjective and there is no established criteria that help gamers understand why this or that particular game got this or that particular score. If there are such criteria please do show them to me. After this GTA review I started having some rather dumb, but relatively logical questions. Like do Bioshock Infinite or Skyrim have just the same scores as GTA because they are not "Politically muddled and profoundly misogynistic"? Would the score be lower if they were? So every game on GS will now be estimated in terms of being political muddled and misogynistic? Has any other game been judged based on this criteria?
Again, this is not about GTA. It is about GS's reviewing policies which now seem to be very strange and covered in mystery. Say what if one of GS's reviewers was an alien? Would he criticise Halo or Gears of War for the unilateral way in which it portrays the aliens? Again, coming back to this particular review. The author does not say a word about the crime and the theft and the violence which are the key elements of storyline and gameplay. But all of the sudden feminine issues are a big deal in this game. To me that's just odd and narrowminded.
That is one ow the reasons why so many gamers flipped put about this review. Because we don't understand why, oh God why, and how this or that game got this or that score. Or why some games score better than the others. Some of us deeply care about those games, some of us just want to see how the industry develops, because we believe that games are a truly great entertainment and creative medium. But after such reviews we might feel quiet baffled...
@SashaBaych Very well said, Sasha Baych. Thank you, for your thought out comments.
@Qazykory Thank you!) It's nice to see people read such lengthy comments)
@SashaBaych So let me make sure I've got this straight. It's ok and appropriate and totally not completely insane and irrational for you and others to flip out like angry children over a review, regardless of how 'inconsistent' it is, but it's not ok for GameSpot to call you on acting like lunatics?
lol Carolyn is a common target which is further exacerbated by the fact she's never afraid to say how she feels ^.^, This actually makes her one of my favorite reviews on GameSpot.
That said I can say I think she is the only reviewer on game spot that I don't know if I have every completely agreed with one of her reviews lol Carolyn disliking things about a game is a red card that I may enjoy it one of the reasons I enjoy her reviews even more.
I personally enjoy Grand Theft Auto being highly if not extremely misogynistic because it's one of if not the only places I can be amused by it without having to deal with the real problem of it, much like hookers, car stealing and guns.
All things I wouldn't want to deal with in real life but are fun to explore in a game and one of the few left I can, Clearly not for children or impressionable people but neither are things like Hannibal Lecter or girl interrupted which are incredible insights into the human psyche, or historical footage of world war one and two which server to both remember those struggles and show the horrors of war.
Though this kind of game is a dying breed and maybe deserves to be it's a proven fact that once you pretend something doesn't exist and take off it's label it grows completely unchecked and unrestrained.
Johnny is a realist. Humor just dilutes his message to many who would not receive it otherwise. Why is that so hard to contemplate? Humor is exaggerated truth. It's core is truth. Unlike the perception. Which is serious bullshit. See, Johnny is not the joke. It is those that don't see the joke. ;) Cheers!
A 9/10 IS too little if you consider that every other shit commercial AAA game automatically gets an 8.5 or a 9. A 9 for GTA V does nothing to set it apart, something GTA V deserves.
I think Gamespot is doing a brilliant job in making people aware of how stupid they actually sound. You're finaly saying the right things and hopefully the community will become more constructive and less childish.
Looking at both sides something people never do. They want to talk about feminism. I guess guys just don't complain as much
@onliwer That's what fanboys are like. It makes no sense, really. Me, I love so many unpopular games that this sort of thins makes me laugh. If I got this angry when a game I loved didn't get exactly what I wanted it to get, I'd have died of repeated heart attacks and brain hemorrhages by now.
This video was absolutely the best thing I've seen all week. Complete brilliance. Couldn't agree more. It's just a bloody number. Boo hoo, GTAV got a 9... grow up guys (to all who complained). I wouldn't give a shit if it got 1/10. I don't judge games based on other peoples opinions. I make up my own mind.
9/10 Feedbackula. :)
GS has challenged the status quo on traditional review scores like this for some time now. I completely expected them to have some issue with GTA V that would render the game less than "perfect" on the rating scale - and, in fine fashion GS did not disappoint on this front. It's got to be a way for GS to distinguish themselves among the herd... They know that all other gaming sites out there are going to praise GTA V for being the "greatest gaming experience to date." Rather than simply go along with it and agree, they pick it apart and take issue with characteristics of the game that have been "characteristic" of the game since GTA 3 first made the sandbox genre what it is today. As WilliamRLBaker has mentioned below, its like a food critic reviewing a chicken dish and then docking it points because it has chicken in it.
Why do this? Further more, why do this and then get angry when the gaming community takes issue with your fail logic in all of it?
GameSpot: This was a fail on your part. You can send Jonneh in to chastise us and attempt to make us feel juvenile for our feelings on this matter; but in the end, you did this to get attention...and you know it. You have your attention, sirs (and "apparently" madams). You've buttered BOTH sides of that bread...now eat it.
*scratches head* I won't watch the video because GameSpot content sucks but it seems to me that you don't get it. This had almost nothing to do with the 9.0 score it did have every thing to do with the mind-boggling decision process at GameSpot and CBS to task a transgendered person to review a game that was going to naturally offend that persons sentimentality but then that person docks points for misogyny in a game that has been as such since its first iteration in the series.
Misogyny is not a valid reason to dock points on a game where one of the whole points is misogyny in the first place.
Its much like a food critic reviewing a chicken dish and docking points because it has chicken in it.
@WilliamRLBaker That's addressed in the video, and I agree with the sentiment. It's not fine to brush it off because "it's GTA," and that for gaming to be taken seriously as a creative medium, things like gender and racial stereotyping MUST be questioned.
If GTA fans and developers don't like the criticism, they can address it, if they don't mind, then they don't have to, but they can't expect people to be silent just because it's a huge franchise.
@YukoAsho @WilliamRLBakerDespite the fact I totally agree that all forms of trolling and bullying must br fought, gamespot practically begs for it when they publish a review that couldn't be more far from what we expect from a review site, i.e., "professional criticism". It doesn't take a genius to see that professional criticism it's not the criticism of the concept per se, but how well such a concept is executed within a context; The former is just fanboysm ou "hateism". In other words, it's like a professional film critic saying "I don't like horror movies, so I'm dropping points on the exorcist for that". And it's not just the gta5 review; dota 2's one is awful. Only the balancing factor is reviewed actually. I bought gone home after the fabulous review written here and was deeply disapointed (not saying that gone home is bad, only that it's not near as good as gamespot's says it to be). Not justifying or endorsing bad behavior, but, let's face it, they brought it upon themselves.
@WilliamRLBaker They don't dock points starting from 10.
To Gamespot: you people shouldn't be bother by those whose aren't capable of making an intelligent debate, just ignore them and move on.
@Revenant_K I think this is the best way to go. The only response from anyone involved with GameSpot should be mods insta-banning the hatemongers.
i would gave this video any ounce of respect if they would brought up the anger of the members who had noticed that Carolyn was so unstable when it comes to scoring behind Giving Gone Home 9.5/10 and the good only with nothing bad at all , where any person who had played the game can easily state that this game was too short , and more of an casual game than being an orthodox one.
now if i should be browsing the best games of PC of all time gone home will come up in the top ten best scoring game ??!! . really . in my opinion this game should be reviewed by a better editor like Kavin.
Great video. I don't know why people have to get so upset because people have different opinions. Especially when it's something that isn't particularly important like an opinion about a video game. I disagree with people all the time without getting upset or insulting people.
I'm playing the game now, and I'm about half way through. It really doesn't have a single female character who is treated seriously, respectfully, or given any true depth so far. I especially could understand why a female gamer, transgender or not, or even male gamers, would take issue with it. It is a completely valid criticism. It doesn't particularly bother me, and the game is still amazing, but the people who are upset because of that criticism and the score being 9, which is still really high, should calm down and especially stop insulting people. It's just one person's opinion of a game.
Fanatics are the cause of much of the hate in the world. I personally think GTA5 deserved a lower score, a 7 maybe, because in my opinion, the driving mechanics were ruined, and driving is the main component of GTA so if the main component is flawed the game suffers grandly, still, I never insulted anyone.
@faerieflower ........ you know stupidity is not Olympics you dont need to win a gold . There are differences between races , races exist and they are sub division of a specie . Learn you biology from non ignorant libtard sources .
GS you guys do tend to troll bait from time to time. I can't help but remember that stupid article, Rockstar "explaining'' why there were no female protagonist in GTA V. Come to find out if you read the article your writer pulled that info from it was a complete non-issue, totally not news worthy, and you riled up the same crowd that hit their boiling point when they saw GTA V being knocked for misogyny. I'm not saying anybody is right or wrong in the situation, but one thing does lead to another.
Far too many of these comments are far too out of line. From an analytic point of view, I'd like to say that the comment about it being misogynistic because it's GTA and just using that as an "acceptable" reason is unacceptable. I would like to expand on that comment and give true, possibly acceptable, cause to it.
The way I've always seen the series, it's essentially a parody of the real world. Of course the media is going to be as misogynistic as it is, because the real world is less misogynistic as that. Rockstar takes all the bad things about our world, throws them into the GTA blender with some other bad things, and it all comes out terrible, but with a good structure and whatnot. Politics are worse, corporation is worse, misogyny is grossly terrible.
That being said, one can enjoy artwork without fully believing in everything that artwork portrays. I may find it acceptable for the misogyny to exist in the game the way it does, but I don't particularly like it.
But I do believe that the GTA world is starting to see the error in misogyny. I mean, Trevor may seem like an absolutely terrible person, but something he says when you first play him, up in Sandy Shores, tells me that he isn't all terrible. He starts yelling at Wade about needing to learn to respect women, because he called a woman a bitch. Something CP seems to have forgotten.In any case, it was a great review, well written, great score... Well done. I hope you all have a good day, and don't let the terrible commenters get you down :)
So if you gave GTA 4 a 10 and then for the same kind of game with the same sense of humor GTA 5 got a 9, people should shut up and take it for granted that it's worse than GTA 4? Because your score shows it like that. Although it is the review of someone who is desperately trying to defend women, even if it's not needed, this game is for fun, and still, some reviewers are trying to make political statements and gender equality claims about a GAME that was always like this, it didn't pull off this stunt all of a sudden, it did it in the prequel , well.... in 3 prequels, so the score is not justified. I am trying to be polite and intelligent about my point, so please think about my point logically, not emotionally. If a game is better in graphics, story, character development, content, customization, freedom of movement, packed with more hours to play, it should be considered better than the previous one from the franchise, and still in your opinion it isn't....just pointing out the flaw it logical thinking.
Is it better than 4? I don't feel that's true. Driving hasn't been improved (driving mechanics, navigation, while shooting). Gunplay hasn't been improved. Tactical play hasn't been improved. You can play two more characters, but they aren't very distinctive in terms of gameplay. It could just as easily had one main protagonist and two cronies. The world also feels very empty. You can't really interact with people on the streets other than to antagonize them. In fact, the single way to interact with the world is still with violence.
I would personally go with an 8 out of 10. While it still is a wonder, it doesn't have any artistic merits and the gameplay hasn't improved significantly. It's a newer version of GTA 4 with nothing truly original to offer.
Just saw this video on tumblr and had to come make an account. As someone who is so used to both the video game community and the industry being such a toxic and hateful place for anyone outside the norm, especially women, this video was like a breath of fresh air. I am so glad that there is a professional game site that actually concentrates on these issues, but also takes them seriously and doesn't just brush them under the rug. The gaming community has so much to learn about being respectful to all members of their community, and the fact that there are people who are calling people out on their shit, especially comments which for some apparent reason have become the breeding ground for hate and discrimination (you would think people would be respectful considering they're talking to other people, but who knows) is really fucking cool. You have made a devoted fan today, and I'm extremely happy that I found this website. Thanks!
I can understand his frustration but one of the cons CP pointed out about the game being misogynistic had people looking cross eyed and befuddled. We all know CP's "situation" so with that I think people were like "um really, are you serious right now?". Not saying the comments were justified but CP use to be a man and now identifies and dresses as a woman. I believe that's a lot for some gamers to be comfortable and cool with, the result of which was those nasty comments. It's the internet so I expected it, knowing CP's history and whatnot, I knew as soon as I saw "misogynistic" as a negative I thought to myself "Oh sh*t here it comes". In any case applause to you for standing up for a co-worker.
contradicted yourself a few times in this clip everyone entitled to there own opinions unless you disagree with there opinion!
maybe you should listen to the community that pays your wage and keeps you in work
just my opinion
No contradiction. He said quite plainly that anyone has a right to disagree. However, he was promoting polite discourse.
@Quake_sharpy Yes, all are entitled to their opinion. Johnny was not contradictory in this, whatsoever, because he was lashing back at the comments that were telling the people at GS that they can't have their own opinions. So, maybe you should pay attention to the people that you apparently pay wages to.
Just my opinion.