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6May 13

There was a news post on Gamespot recently entitled "Documentary on industry sexism fully funded." (http://www.gamespot.com/news/documentary-on-industry-sexism-fully-funded-6407948) And to the surprise of no one, like all posts related to the subject of sexism in the games industry, the comments section was flooded with disgruntled male gamers decrying and denying the need for such an expose. I'm roughly estimating 90% of the commenters were opposed to the documentary, women in gaming, women in general, feminism or any combination of these things. It's difficult to understand how anyone could look at the fear, anger and outright misogyny in those comments and not come to the conclusion that the gaming community has a problem with sexism.

I've been trying to understand the root of all this anti-female sentiment think I may have finally figured it out. It has to do with peripheries of the man-boy mentality that's so common with men in the gaming community.  I think what we're seeing is a large portion of the males in gaming basically don't understand women, are ultimately afraid of them. Some of it has to do with resentment at the way they've been treated by women in their own lives, or at least their perception of the way they've been treated.

I've taken a sampling of the comments this article elicited to show where I'm coming from. I think everyone can agree these reactions are not unique.  If you've read any of the comments sections related to gaming and sexism you've heard all these things before, many times. The comments are attributed to the Gamespot members who made them. I don't suppose anyone can justifiably get mad at me for using their comment, after all it was made in a public forum and the members are relatively anonymous. I'm thinking I get to claim fair use. I'll try to make arguments against the general mindsets on display in the interest of enlightenment, but I don't think it's strictly necessary. The comments themselves more than support my basic premise.

First of all we see the comments that lead me to believe these guys have issues with their personal romantic lives:

Gamers are the nerdy kids who treat women nicely and therefore don't get girlfriends since girls like asshole sports jocks. - Saketume

The games industry shouldn't bend over backwards to accommodate a group that has traditionally laughed at it. - Pulfasonic

Generalizations to be sure. There are as many different women as there are men and we're not all looking for the same thing in a partner. If one has been been rejected and laughed at by one woman or even a few of them, and said woman went on to date "asshole sports jocks" that's a reflection on her, for better or worse, not an indication of what all women want.

Then we have the lack of general understanding of women that either puts them on a pedestal:

Ideally we expect women to be these sweet innocent people. - Gen007

Or attempts to knock them off the pedestal the commenter thinks women have put themselves upon:

Femi-Bushido (the Way of the Woman) - you can make mistakes, you can ruin the whole dev project, you can bitch about anything without any particular reason, you can make films about mistreatment of your kind. And nobody has the right to criticize you - shuwar

Female gamer, on the other hand, is used as a cry for attention. Like "Look at me!! I am girl who plays games. Tee hee!" - underoath83

Remember the good old arcade days where you had to EARN the respect by proving yourself amongst other gamers, females apparently just want that respect like its their God given right... - musalala

Women in 2013 don't want to be idealized, put on a pedestal, put in an ivory tower or anything of the sort. Nor do they expect to be given a pass in the face of a lack of aptitude because they're female. They want to be treated as an equal in their professional lives and in their personal lives, not instantly thought less of simply because they're a woman. Of course there are some misguided people who think women are inherently better than men but they're in the minority. Just as he-man woman haters (whether the hate arises from fear or something else) are in the minority. The problem with the games industry is many of these guys seem to have been attracted to it and they're in wildly disproportionate representation.

And then there's the false comparisons:

"And what about MEN getting harrassed online? There are 2 sides to each coin but feminists only want to see one -,-" - hella_epic

"nobody gives a shit about every single man being built like a tank" - Pulfasonic

The simplest way to dismiss these arguments is to point out that two wrongs don't make a right. That's elementary school logic most of us should understand. In this case I'll go beyond that to say that men are not harrassed online simply because they're men and men generally like to be presented as the ultra-buff strongman. Sorry guys, it's just the truth.

Then finally we get to the outright fear some of the comments aren't afraid to put to words:

I cant wait to listen to these steps to (emasculate) change the environment for the better. - zombielandv

Games are mostly for a male audience and we like seeing some skin. What's so wrong in that? God why do All groups now start to hate on games??? - amvivin

Yes, that's what we have here. The scary, indecipherable women are coming to destroy gaming. I think that's the root of all the hateful comments that are provoked by the issue of sexism in the gaming industry whenever it comes up on Gamespot or elsewhere in the online gaming world. Fear is the at the root of, and the basis of the rhetoric that always shows up when one group is afraid that another group is going to step in and uproot their way of life. Arguments that are made in situations regarding serious things like segregation, universal sufferage and immigration and with more trivial things like video games. But if history tells us anything it's that these fears are never realized when the new group is ultimately fully included. What generally happens is benefits are granted to everyone involved. Yes there are changes but nothing of value is lost, the world is usually enhanced by the expansion of the community.

It's even less of a cause for anxiety in the world of gaming. For better or worse, games aimed at men that include all the things that attract men aren't going anywhere. The appeal to masculine sensibilities is still present in movies and any other entertainment you can point to and it will always be present in gaming as long as men want it. The benefits we'll see by welcoming women to gaming as both developers and players are a more diverse selection of gaming themes and mechanics, expansion of the audience and growth of the industry that benefits everyone involved.

401 comments
wavelength121
wavelength121

Great article, couldn't agree more. In my experience, sexists are on the same level as homophobes; resentment towards any group of people, whether it stems from the bible, bad parenting or bad education, all comes back to fear and misunderstanding. I was also disturbed by the juvenile response to the documentary announcement and other GameSpot segments regarding the growing number of female players, but not shocked. Not after the outcry over Danny's look at religion in videogames, not after outcry over the negative Warfighter review. Not after watching the news for five minutes and learning there are still yokels out there who think it's okay to control women's bodies and were never taught that rape is bad. The majority of the reaction for those bits, as you highlighted, reveal how out of touch not just gamers but males in general have become. These idiots are so backwards they believe that war is fun, that women are objects and Christianity is somehow less evil than Islam. And the rest of us have to live and work around these people in society every day. And they will just keep on whining and forcing the rest of the progressive-minded among us to claw for every bloody inch of social justice we can get in our beloved medium. So be it.

NeverM0re7
NeverM0re7

And yet again you're making an issue where there is none or rather driving it to the wrong direction. Games in the general consensus are supposed to be fun. Pure entertainment. And yes, there is "serious" gaming and casual gaming. When computers were at their infancy people would likely go out more and play cards or hide and seek or something.  There are some givens and parameters that have traditionally been there as some others said (mostly the "nerd" stereotype and its evolution along with technology over the years). Variety of themes and mechanics is mostly about creative thinking and messing with your chances and not a matter of whether you're male or female. Sure, you may do it in a different way.

YET, again you're asking people (excuse me, men) to not generalise when you keep referring to masculinity issues. I could very easily say "Oh yes, you say men are animals who just like punching stuff". Yes, most men do like sports/action/blabla stuff. But that's not 100% indicative of everything else. Oh, and they are so shallow... God, they only like attacking women and are so fearful of change. It's NOT a matter of masculinity, it's mainly a matter of business and respect. Action is EASY TO SELL. It's pure entertainment. The problem is not accepting that games can be insightful works of art. It's not even a matter of being a nerd. The casual, most representative mindset is to view gaming as a pass-time activity and not as something you'd spend ours on and analyse its every bit and byte. Again, as someone said, this could be an issue of gamers to gamers or better, of gamers to publishers.

You can ask for something. You can say "Hey peeps, we're a [growing] group of people and maybe you should consider our preferrences - we're part of your audience/clientele after all". I personally have nothing against women. It's just about numbers. Not even female population numbers, but selling figures and purely casual, enetertainment mindset. 

I DON'T CARE if a game is made (only) by women...

I DON'T CARE if a game deals with female issues (it could be a study into the female nature)...

I DON'T CARE if it has a female protagonist

...AS LONG AS I CAN FEEL IT PROVIDES ME WITH SOMETHING I LIKE AMD IT'S WORTH MY TIME.

You yourself pretty much admit that feminism in 2013 is stupid. And even though it was a movement with completely valid starting points, now you've completely twisted it into an argument of being suppressed every single time you want to ask something. Respect isn't.

Nobody stops you from making your own dev team, noone stops you from bringing up an issue, noone stops you from making suggestions. It's just not cool when you are dividing the community with falsely based assumptions. Where is the fun? Where is the art? What does dating have to do with anything? Yeah... 

I don't think anyone is against anything, nor afraid of anyone. There's room for all. People just don't like being crapped on for their decisions and preferences. And if you feel you need to do this in gaming... Guess what. Maybe you should be doing in reality first. Don't turn GAMES into a scapegoat for society's syndroms.

Think there's something different and purposeful and original to offer? You think YOU can offer it? Come on ahead and be judged and put to the test.

P.S. Caps are for attention purposes, not shouting.

LOXO7
LOXO7

This is not a welcomed addition to the gaming population and rightfully so.  We are "sexist" because we disagree with the making of this film to highlight... sexism?  A documentary titled, "GTFO: A Film About Women in Gaming" isn't what I would call positive PR for the gaming industry.  I never heard of a company that talk about their faults of their product.  Why?  Because it's not going to help them, GROW!  This is a hit piece on gaming.

SauhlGood
SauhlGood

although there may be a good amount of truth to some of the things you say, there are however very few female gamers in general, gaming is still arguably shaking the image of a hobby attributed to basement dwelling nerds, and all of the girls i know irl don't like anything beyond motion dance games or workouts.  When more girls begin playing i imagine things changing.

i imagine you did cherry pick the few comments that illustrate your points.  how bout something good about the men lol

zyxe
zyxe

@SauhlGood sadly, these comments that were picked really were indicative of many, MANY comments regarding sexism and gaming. i wish it weren't true.

musalala
musalala like.author.displayName 1 Like

@zyxe  Is it because these commentators are inherently sexist or are they repulsed by the way the argument of "sexism in gaming" is presented.For most its the later

musalala
musalala like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

The exact same accusation you are leveling at them can be leveled at the authors of these articles,If you write insidious comments and generalizations against a group of people you can hardly expect respect.Particularly when you voice valid complaints only to be labelled a sexist pig.It appears that their is a built damned if you do damned if you don't mentality in many of the articles on sexism that is applied who anyone who shos the slightest inkling of disagreement.This blog itself is one such offender.I would really love to see a truly honest presentation of this issue not articles reeking with personal bias and unsubstantiated claims

wavelength121
wavelength121

@musalala @zyxe If that were the case, they would have said so. But they chose to be ignorant instead. Don't vouch for people you've never met, especially when they have already failed in their own words to be respectful and thoughtful on the topic.

HIT3kNology
HIT3kNology

The lesbians are at it again... Perhaps take this shit elsewhere. What happened to Gamespot being about games? No one has problems with women. The femists are the problem, not games, not the gaming industry, not men, not women. That "sexism" you fucking morons claim you see on Gamespot is nothing more than people letting you know how fucking stupid this all is. The sad part is all the brainwashed men who actually agree with this femist crap. Play games and shut the fuck up.

wavelength121
wavelength121

@HIT3kNology "Feminism" is just a word made up by guys like you to marginalize the progression of women's rights, and make it sounds scary. Grow up.

meeghoulz
meeghoulz

I AGREE.WHAT IS THE ILLUSTRATION AT THE TOP?

ragnar320
ragnar320

lol well heres my two cents and fyi im a guy

once when i was a freshmen at humboldt state university and if you know that school you know how left wing hippie paridise it is. heck its has the best vegitarian cafeteria in the nation just to get my point across i was in a english 100 class and the proffessor asked the class what is the definition of feminism. nobody answered and i had an answer so i spoke up.

what i said was well femisist want equality in all things for women. techinacly there isnt anything witen in the constuition that gives equal rights to both men and women. the consitition does say that all citizens shall have equal protection to due process and the right to vote that shall not discrimentate based on race or color. it dosent say anything about women actually(fact). so thats what i said and then i was like idk why it cant get past the house or senate but whatever and then at the very end i was like but there touchy about it.

then the femisit in the class makes a disgusted noise and is like that was the perfect defintion of femisim and then it got ruined cause of me saying there touchy. and that basically sums up women for yea cause they want equality for everyone but say a womens wrong or touchy and she'll ripe your head off and thats what women do in video games. its not the video gamer fault that most of us are guys and that coperate morons are the ones that stunt creatiivity and just try to make a quick buck and have the largest profit margin possible. why is it our fault that women dont 'feel' accepted its because 6 years ago i would have been shocked to play with a girl now not so much but frankly i dont really give a crap.

How bout we get EA and activion stop making fps and mmos that havent changed at all since call of duty 2(the WWII one not MW) came out and when wow was first realesed. well thats my two cents just thought id contribute

kiramasaki
kiramasaki like.author.displayName 1 Like

I actually was wondering if this was going to be your content or if it was a clever tongue and cheek title and I would be given some top ten lists with the likes of Lisa Trevor, Scarlet from Silent Hill, etc.

X-7
X-7 like.author.displayName 1 Like

Who cares if they want to make a documentary. If you don't want to watch it then don't but don't sit there and dictate what they can and cannot do because they are "inferior" women. Buncha sexist d-bags I am ashamed to be a man when comments are made like this.  Grow up.

g1rldraco7
g1rldraco7

You got the point perfectly, nice blog here :)

monstachruck
monstachruck like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

Ok, seems like everyone is contributing their two cents, so I'll throw mine in.

I think a large part of this debate lies in the evolution of what it means to be a "gamer" or a "nerd".

I'm a thirty year old man.  I've been playing PC and console games for about 26 years.  When I was a teenager, being a nerd was a negative label.  It meant you were physically weak or unattractive, socially inept, and interested in something so exclusive or unusual that only other nerds could appreciate and understand you.  Being a nerd meant being a pariah.

Fast-forward to present day.  What does being a nerd mean now?  It means being intelligent, being a capable and creative problem-solver... in short, it's become a positive label, and as such, popular culture has invaded nerd culture.  However, many gamers still see being a nerd or a gamer as an exclusive club for people that "know what they are talking about."  They've romanticized this illusion of being a brilliant outsider.  Many male gamers still feel that social neglect, and are reflecting that negativity at the swiftly-growing population of female gamers.  Guess what guys?  Highschool is over, and if you are still in high school, it doesn't last long.  Grow up.


Orkk
Orkk like.author.displayName 1 Like

@monstachruck I'm really glad that the internet's hate hasn't made you dislike girl gamers, and you seem to not be around girl gamers much. If you did, I'm sure you wouldn't be telling people on the internet to grow up when they voice their opinions about it. You seem to have wisdom on the subject, but any humble person like yourself should be able to realize that he might be wrong. People will deal with the girl gamers in their life however they want to, I only hope that something on this thread might be able to help them with that. There is a lot of negative talk in the gaming culture, I remember I used to hate when the "good" gamers tore me a new one in the games I loved, but I kept playing.  I mean, they have to have other men defend them for godsake, you are proof of that. Its really dumb that its gone this far. Women will use their vaginas to get what they want, and blame it when they don't.

monstachruck
monstachruck like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@Orkk  Quite the contrary, my friend.  I play with girl gamers almost daily.  The girls I've met online play titles such as Chivalry, Star Conflict, Hawken, World of Warcraft, SWTOR, Guild Wars II, Planetside 2, Age of Empires II HD, Starcraft 2, and a lot of others.  On top of that, I regularly have LAN parties and pen & paper Dungeons and Dragons games with a group of 12 individuals, 8 of which are girls.  None of them are what you describe.  They are mature, easy-going, and incredibly quick and skilled gamers.  Even if they did fit the stereotype you described, it wouldn't matter.  Playing video games with people is fun, and women offer an interesting perspective on games we play.  They certainly don't need my defense.  My post was not defending anyone- it's an attack on ignorance.  

By saying that "women use their vaginas to get what they want," you are just solidifying your stance as a bigot.  Men who think women are somehow using their sex to garner respect are clearly suffering from some sort of social anxiety, or are just resistant towards change, and things are changing!  Women are finally starting to reach the same level of respect and equality that men have in the United States, but it's still an uphill battle, and not just in the gaming arena.  To claim that men are somehow being disenfranchised by women's desire to have a voice and equal treatment in a male-dominated field is ridiculous.  That said, it's not my opinion that women aren't treated equally- it's simply a fact.  We only started giving women the same rights men have a century ago, and we still haven't leveled the playing field.  

I can honestly say I've never experienced any sort "sexual discrimination" from a gamer girl.  Sure plenty of them flame and trollololololol and maybe their skills don't reflect their claims.  But why does that matter?  I'm not good at a lot of games I play, but I still get treated with equality.  Instead of being chastised, I usually get tips and advice from more experienced players.  This is what we should be doing, but I wonder if I would have been treated the same if I had been a girl playing the game.  I think part of the problem is that "nerd rage" that seems to pump up a lot of socially-inept men's egos when it comes to gaming, or anything they are passionate about.  Smack-talking is one thing, but being plain disrespectful is just that- disrespectful  regardless of the gender of the aggressor or the victim.

I spent a year in Afghanistan, and I witnessed first-hand how awful discrimination against women can be.  We, as a community of gamers and human beings, need to set an example.  Gaming isn't exclusive to people that are "good" at games, or for those that talk the most smack.  Gaming is for everyone, regardless of gender, race, color, or creed.

monstachruck
monstachruck

PS: kudos to ggregd.  I think you are hitting the nail on the head, mate.  Great article. :)

rogue81
rogue81 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

@monstachruck (copied and pasted from below) Instead of saying "I play games, respect me as a gamer", these women are saying "I'm a woman who plays games, respect me as a gamer." What does one have to do with the other? If you enjoy playing games, you are a gamer. However, this group is separating themselves from the rest of the gaming community and demanding respect based on their gender.

I'm 31 years old, 14 years out of high school. I couldn't care less about the genitalia between your legs and what games you play. Quit flying your sex in my face and demanding I give respect for your gender.

Haeravon
Haeravon like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 14 Like

I view modern feminism as an immoral movement, if anything. First, most modern feminists aren't fighting for equality anymore-neither are most racial groups. If you want to fight for true, non-biased equality, be a humanist. It's more expansive. Second, there are issues that are really just not worth fighting over. Sexism in video games? We'll get back to specifics later, but frankly, while the income gap exists, while women are having their genitals mutilated, while women are being virtually enslaved in the middle east, a real, brave feminist has more to fight for than video game sexism. Period. How many beaten wives could Anita Sarkeesian helped with the money she pocketed, ostensibly for a series of videos of dubious quality and no intellectual merit?

I've found that most women defending this kind of nonsense, when you ask them what changes they want to see in video games, have no real response. When you point out that there have been Zelda games starring Zelda, that the protagonist of Portal 2 is female, and most RPGs allow you to choose your gender (hence making gender equality in such games a non-issue), you don't tend to get very inspiring responses. Sexism in the industry is one thing, but in video games themselves, is another. If developers want to create a male protagonist, that's a creative (and perhaps marketing) decision. If you want to play a grrrrl power game, make one yourself... Maybe get a Kickstarter campaign for one started? My conclusion is that most feminist gamers aren't much for gaming-it's just a male-dominated area of life they're targeting for their petty, safe, and useless expressions of modern feminism. You know, you challenge religious fundies about women's rights, you might get shot. You complain about male gamers, you get trolled... which brings me to another point. If you say stupid crap... no, strike that, if you say anything on the internet, you will get trolled. The internets is full of kids, people. We all know this. If not physically, at least mentally, and everybody gets abused online. It's not a gaming thing, it's not even a male thing... it's the bravado of anonymity.

Lastly, I have a girlfriend, who plays many games. Her opinion on this, of course, is offense that there are women out there who presume to speak for her-as if their genitalia enables them an opinion for everybody with the same set of chromosomes. Her big issue in gaming? Not having a color slider for hair/eye/skin color in RPGs... but then again, she hates playing female protagonists, and is in love with Geralt from the Witcher, so maybe she's not the best example... or maybe she's a perfect example. Not everybody is the same, stop pretending you're fighting the good fight for women when you're really just provoking gender tension in order to scam other feminists out of their money. I'm tempted to make a video series counter to Anita's, pointing out all the strong women in gaming... anybody want to give me money?

rogue81
rogue81 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@Haeravon You have to admit that the people who harassed Anita over her videos played right into her hands. She's using the attacks against her as ammunition to target the male gaming community as a whole. In this instance and others like it, a small handful of male gamers who have made it their mission in life to punish outspoken women in gaming, have become the worst enemy to the rest of us who don't really care about your chromosomes. We become guilty be association, and gaming as a whole takes another black eye as the public views us as a bastion for the misogynistic as well as the homicidal.

Haeravon
Haeravon like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@rogue81 Yes, they did, although I have my doubts as to how many of that handful had any sexist ideological pretenses of any sort. Most were probably just the ubiquitous internet troll, that stands for nothing save anonymous conflict behind the safe glow of a computer screen. On the other hand, many avowed, but misguided, feminists sure made their presence felt-dropping $150,000 into a project that could, at best, do absolutely nothing worthwhile for the status of women.

I will admit, and it seems obvious to me that sexism exists-some guys are just sexist (as are plenty of women, who seem immune to such charges, no matter how blatantly obvious they are.) I do not, however, believe sexism is rampant throughout the gaming community (the industry, however, may be another story.) There are certainly some male gamers who, for some reason I cannot fathom, feel threatened by the opposite gender in gaming, as if there was something quintessentially 'macho' about sitting on a couch and pressing buttons. Think, for example, of the scene from 'Fan Boys', where Windows says that Zoe is 'not a girl' because she plays video games (among other reasons). Some men do put women in the same category of faeries and unicorns, and do not regard video gaming as an appropriate area of feminine identity... but again, this is a minority, and that opinion is not rampant in the community itself. By comparison, the same attitude seems mirrored on the feminist side, who assumes for the entire gender what is-and isn't-an issue for women worth fighting for.

It is sad this is even an issue at all. Like I said earlier, there are far better things for both sides to waste their time and money on. For my part, I should be finishing my Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen talk-through, although I will not presume to speak on the part of the rest of the gaming community and the feminist movement. As a humanist, however, I feel it's a pathetic waste, with so many serious issues that need attention in the world, to be bothering with the idea that the Zelda-Link paradigm denigrates women. In the end, the only people who stand to gain from all this-besides opportunistic fake feminists like Anita-are the trolls.

SeverdSeouL
SeverdSeouL like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 8 Like

Feminism is not at all about "gender equality", not as it used to be; it's about misandrist, personal agendas and gender superiority. Most women in North America have more rights than any other women in any other part of the world. More rights than the men do. They are narcissistic, egotistical, champion manipulators. Cry wolf at any chance they get. The worst has to be Canada, or at least Toronto, where men aren't even allowed have an understanding of their own rights, without extremist feminazis coming to crashing the party. You want to know why so many men in North America have no respect for this crap in the gaming industry? Because in the real world it has become a cancerous plague that has destroyed any kind of "gender equality" there can ever be. And now it's coming for the last refuge from the hypocritical, misandrist, political agendas of these extremist nutjobs. I have the utmost respect for the women who have the perception to see through these agendas and see the real issues present here. I'll say it again; "gender equality", is not what is the goal of this "movie" is. Superiority and victim-ism is.

toshineon
toshineon

@SeverdSeouL Feminism has gone so overboard in the country I live in, that many people (Women included, of course) either don't care anymore or are against it. Every time they bring up feminism in the news, or even just mention it, people instantly stop listening. This kinda proves that if you push something too far, people are gonna stop caring. Which is news to no one, really.

SeverdSeouL
SeverdSeouL like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 10 Like

The poster of this entry is absolutely clueless. Okay, I'm getting REALLY pissed off about this issue, I know I'm going to take alot of flak for this, but it has to be said. Disclaimer: I am fully a proponent of gender equality, or humanism (for both parties). 


I find it beyond enraging that so called "feminists" (actual feminists are really humanists) can label every single man a sexist when he objectifies a woman on the physicality of her body. However; it's perfectly acceptable for said "feminists" to be sexists; make sexist, misandrist comments about a man, emasculate him, be physically violent to a man, emotionally abusive, manipulative etc. But a second you get the reverse, no matter how small, zero tolerance. If these "feminists" really want "gender equality"; well why don't they SHOW it? Because "gender equality" only suits them when it is to the benefit of them ONLY. When it comes to the trade off, they refuse to meet the man halfway, and expect him to do A, B and C. The reason? They are not for gender EQUALITY, they instead want gender SUPERIORITY under the guise of "equal treatment". You really want gender equality? Then stop it with the double standards! "feminists" say that the problem with men is that they have a huge ego, I disagree. I find that the ego on a woman of that caliber can be just a strong, if not stronger. We are all human beings, we all have similarities and differences! Stop blaming your insecurities, and dislike of certain personalities on entire genders. Bottom line: You can't combat sexism with MORE sexism.

Haeravon
Haeravon like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@SeverdSeouL Thank you. Humanism > Feminism. One is for equality, the other is sexism.

SoreThumbsBill
SoreThumbsBill like.author.displayName 1 Like

An article here says video game violence can desensitize players to real violence. 

I wonder if all this feminist BS can desensitize people from real women issues.

SillySkeleton
SillySkeleton like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 10 Like

Yes, we all fear females. File that one next to 'virgins' and 'living in our mothers basements'.'

I'm not sure blanket statements are the most effective way to get male gamers to sympathise with the situation of women in gaming. Those of us that already do respect women and their right to enjoy games don't really appreciate it either.

souther_hill
souther_hill like.author.displayName 1 Like

@SillySkeleton women are the most sneaky beings in existence. If anyone still thinks the world is ruled by men, is truly naive.

zyxe
zyxe like.author.displayName 1 Like

@SillySkeleton reading the blog would show you that the author is casting this judgement on those who have made such derogatory comments towards feminism and gaming, not towards all men.

oflow
oflow

@zyxe @SillySkeleton in your opinion. When I read it it seemed more like a blanket statement as well like someone else already mentioned.

Korvus85
Korvus85 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

@zyxe @SillySkeleton The author is also making generalizations about men while saying it's wrong to make generalizations towards women. That's the only thing me and a lot of other users have against this post.

oflow
oflow like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

exactly. the biggest problem i have with this whole 'sexism in gaming' trend that everyone is jumping behind is the fact that a lot of it really isnt about sexism, its about feminists trying to use gaming as their platform to rail on about their own personal agendas.  Which in turn often turns into reverse sexism where feminists are just trying to bully the male status quo and lumping everyone not a feminist into the same category.  Often times, especially on this website in the articles by Petit, shes actually not talking about sexism, shes talking about LGBT issues under the guise of sexism/objectification of women, and the reality is these are actually two different topics.

Sexism isnt as rampant as many of these authors are making it out to be, its not any worse in the gaming community than it is in any other facet of life. Not sayiing that its not bad, but its not peaking its head out from every corner. Everytime someone doesnt include a female character or a woman character wears a bikini doesnt mean is sexism.

Finally and I've said this before, women cant have it both ways. There are plenty of women willing to objectify themselves, so as long as that exists the problem wont go away.  Lots of women live in a delusional double standard world where they can practice sexist behavior at their discretion. An easy example being guys objectifying women is sexist but a woman saying she only dates tall men isnt.

zyxe
zyxe like.author.displayName 1 Like

@oflow "...its about feminists trying to use gaming as their platform to rail on about their own personal agendas.  Which in turn often turns into reverse sexism where feminists are just trying to bully the male status quo and lumping everyone not a feminist into the same category."

i haven't seen this to be the case within GS articles, would you please cite some examples?

"An easy example being guys objectifying women is sexist but a woman saying she only dates tall men isnt."

a woman preferring tall men isn't sexist, that's heightism. 

 

AzulSoul
AzulSoul like.author.displayName 1 Like

@zyxe @SeverdSeouL @oflow Yes, but sadly most of feminist are extremist, don't look for equality but superiority. The a priori concept of feminism have practically died. Humanism is the way.

WolfGrey
WolfGrey like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 4 Like

@Korvus85 @zyxe @SeverdSeouL @oflow  

Aye that was my main issue with Petit.

We didn't need every single thing she wrote to be about "sexism". The fact she has a double standard as well keeps me from ever taking her seriously.

Sure she may have only said it once but that was enough to see her real view on the issue at hand.

Doesn't help her reviews aren't that great either lol

Kevin VanOrd is still king of reviews here for now.

Korvus85
Korvus85 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 5 Like

@zyxe @SeverdSeouL @oflow Well, I took issue with some of Petit's articles as well, namely one where she says something to the lines of "sexist pigs are trying to prevent women from having the right to an opinion, and if you don't agree with me, you probably are a sexist pig". Probably the biggest double standard I've seen in this website. Not to mention the fact that she was nowhere to be found in this website unless she was disguising one of her game reviews as a way to push the subject didn't get her any followers either, but now she's actually doing her job and commenting on games and not her agenda, so I'm more inclined to hear about issues (that I won't deny, are real issues) close to her heart, since they're not in every single thing she writes anymore....

zyxe
zyxe like.author.displayName 1 Like

@SeverdSeouL @zyxe @oflow extremists are just that: extreme. they make a lot of noise and try to be the umbrella covering everyone, yet they end up making more enemies than doing good, in my opinion. i'm glad that intelligent men wouldn't take those kinds of feminists seriously. i sure don't, either, and i get mad when a reasonable cause is dismissed because of the bad taste of the extremists being shoved down everyone's throat.

but that's also why i encourage people to actually read articles before commenting. i haven't seen much in the way of extremes in the recent GS articles, and it's sad that some good calls for changes are being shot down without being understood.

SeverdSeouL
SeverdSeouL like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 3 Like

@zyxe @oflow I think he means to say "Guys objectifying women is sexist, but women objectifying men isn't" That is the hypocrisy,  and that is why no intelligent man will take extremist feminists seriously. Ever.

Orkk
Orkk

@zyxe @oflow lel

Orkk
Orkk like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 6 Like

Its not the fact that their girls, its just their gaming style. The stereotypical girl gamer usually casually games for attention. If I were to see a guy gamer posting on facebook that hes level seven in Skyrim just so that he could get attention for the opposite gender, it would be a different reaction because girls don't usually game, and therefore wouldn't really be a valid way to attract the opposite sex. I frequent LAN centers, tournaments, and the like, and I am a big part of the gaming culture. Men really don't care, until you mess with something we're passionate about just so that you can get plowed by a neckbeard. You can like the things we do, but stop expecting to be treated special because you're a girl gamer, shits real annoying. Girl gamers as a whole have really made a bad name for themselves already because of their own actions, but male gamers just need to stop caring. Its really a touchy subject unique to the situation in your life, but I find that male gamers are usually upset because girl gamers are just so terrible at every video game, yet they continue not because they have a passion for it, but because they want the attention of guys, and true gamers hate seeing this form of video art as a medium for dating.

tl;dr Guys: stop caring, they're here to stay. A lot of guys eat that shit up, that's why they're going to stay.

        Girls: if you're good at video games, I'm sure no one will discriminate you. So stop trying to focus on people seeing you as a "gamer" and trying to fit in, and actually become a gamer.

monstachruck
monstachruck like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@Orkk wait... why do you have to be "good" at a game to be respected as a gamer?  isn't enjoying the game enough?  since when is gamer culture all about being an expert, and not about being able to play, share, and talk about the pleasure you get from video games?  

Seems like an unfair stigma to me.

rogue81
rogue81

@monstachruck You don't have to be good at a game to be respected as a gamer, but when was the last time you saw a guy brag about playing a game he was horrible at? It's lame right? It doesn't get any better when a girl does it. I think Orkk was trying to say if you're going to draw attention to yourself as a gamer, make it for a good reason (like your passion for gaming) instead of posing nude with just an Xbox controller covering your chest and calling yourself a gamer.

rogue81
rogue81 like.author.displayName like.author.displayName 2 Like

@monstachruck You misunderstand me. Instead of saying "I play games, respect me as a gamer", these women are saying "I'm a woman who plays games, respect me as a gamer." What does one have to do with the other? If you enjoy playing games, you are a gamer. However, this group is separating themselves from the rest of the gaming community and demanding respect based on their gender.  

When a guy brags about being a god in Call of Duty, do you respect him more as a gamer? I don't. Personally I think it's annoying when anyone does it. Should I like it more when a girl brags about being a god in Call of Duty? Should I respect her more as a gamer? This was Orkk's point. Why should I care if you play games? Why should a person get special attention for their "accomplishments, regardless of how meager and humble they may be" based on their gender? 

monstachruck
monstachruck

Why does it matter what people are or aren't bragging about?  How do their grandiose claims effect you?  Do the opinions of others really effect you that much; that if someone says they are good at a game they actually  suck at, does it  insult your integrity that much?  If someone sucks at a game, isn't that an opportunity to truly show your passion for gaming, and give that person advice and tips on how to play better?  Doesn't being passionate about something make you want to share it with other people?  Regardless of how passionate you are about video gaming, isn't it still a GAME?  Because that's what it is.  A game.  We are playing a game.  We are playing.  Why does it matter that some girl is proud of her accomplishments, regardless of how meager and humble they may be?  It seems to me the problem here is an unhealthy dose of hubris.

Clynol
Clynol like.author.displayName 1 Like

@Orkk Very true, well said Orkk./

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