i been a gamer chick for ten years and unfortunately i still see sexism on some games we are as good as the males and love our games just as much

As a male I do get backlash from the (predominantly male)community when I do stand up and turn away from the games that portray the stereotypic image of how females are represented in games. It's very refreshing to here another intelligent view on this subject.

While I agree with a lot of what you said, the bit about creators trying to slip in subliminal messages seems a little off. It may not be their purpose, but that doesn't mean the image they are portraying aren't exactly flattering even though they think it is.

 

I'm not exactly proud of Cole Train, Big Bo, Barret  (I know you're ok with him, but as an African American, I am not proud of this character), Balrog, all Apone-esque marines and various others. CJ is by far more stereotypical than these, but he's slightly different in that the game is quite literally about him being a gangster in Los Santos (LA) and GTA has always been about being a stretch of real America.

 

Bottom line, I think they do need to be a little aware of the characters their putting out and should take into account how your ideal image of X race/sex might be received at this current time.

so what i like sexism on gaming it pretty cool

The number of women in the gaming industry may be "creeping up" but i've read a handful of articles which i can't remember so i can't post so i'm going to quote wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_computing):

 

"In the United States, the number of women represented in undergraduate computer science education and the white-collar information technology workforce peaked in the mid-1980s, and has declined ever since. In 1984, 37.1% of Computer Science degrees were awarded to women; the percentage dropped to 29.9% in 1989-1990, and 26.7% in 1997-1998. Figures from the Computing Research Association Taulbee Survey indicate that less than 12% of Computer Science degrees were awarded to women in 2010-11."

 

A drop from ~37% in 1984 to 12% in 2011 is MASSIVE. from what i understand about the situation, the problem stems neither from gamers, games, the gaming industry or the technology industry. for evidence, read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women_in_science#Statistics_of_Women_in_Science:

 

""leaky pipeline" model, in which the proportion of women "on track" to potentially becoming top scientists falls off at every step of the way, from getting interested in science and math in elementary school, through doctorate, postdoc, and career steps. Various reasons are proposed for this, and although the existence of this trend in many countries and times suggests that there is a genetic or hormonal causal component, the vast differences in the "leakiness" of this pipe across the same countries and times argues also for a causal component that is cultural."

 

this isn't an issue restricted to gaming, it's just more apparent in gaming because of the following:

1. female characters in gaming allows for foul cries of "sexism!"

2. the number of women playing games is seeing massive increases.

 

the statics don't favor good change, but that doesn't mean it can't or won't happen. sorry for the long post, i just thought i'd mention this.

Good read. I'm Glad to see that you looked at this issue from both sides which a lot of people fail to do.

This is a well written and thoughtful opinion piece.

 

My comment concerns "I have boobs and a controller! Respect me!". It is often difficult to balance trash talk - where is the line? I think all gamers will have had both good and bad experiences with trash talk.

 

The mistakes come when moderators employ punishments without trying to change to culture of the population playing that game. A game which succeeds in moderation is league of legends - which aims for a sense of self regulation through the tribunal system (where cases of bad behavior are judged by higher ranking players) - changing the culture and attitudes of those who play. Women rising to the top of this system can influence the culture and maintain high standards.

 

Such as system would be difficult to implement in games like COD/Halo but has potential still.

it is sad to think that maybe gaming industry is giving us exactly what we want. They consider this a man's business, they have studied men nature and now they are giving men what men want... It is maybe not sexist, but just pure marketing. Now, you think men should not think like that? Well, IF men think that way naturally, who are you to go against nature? IF men think like that because of publicity or other ways to impose truths, then, yes, you are doing the right thing...

Television, Web, Movies or any kind of advertising.. are always focused on eroticism.. and games, always have some of that.. bad or good? Does'nt really matters..

Excellent & well-stated.

I honestly don't care who is making the games I play, as long as they're making the games I play good.  Great read!

Great blog!  It's nice to see this sexism issue being discussed in a more moderate tone. 

SEX IS No 1 for humans, if you still not get it, stop sitting on computer 12/24 and get a guy instead trying to 'study sex' here in GamesSpot!

I apologise for the long comments. While I agree with some parts of this article I feel the need to point a few things out:

"? its sad that the issue is brushed off BECAUSE of the few but LOUD misandrists who parade themselves as feminists, or the fake girl gamer who's never experienced real sexism is screaming "Respect me! I have boobs!""

 

- First of all the idea of a 'fake girl gamer' is a completely facile and vacuous concept. What exactly constitutes a real gamer and who makes this judgement? Other than one cringe-worthy Girl Gamer Manifesto video (which was lambasted and is not representative) I don't know of any females who are asking for special treatment online.  Most female gamers simply want to be a member of a community where their gender is largely irrelevant and isn't highlighted negatively or positively.

 

"There needs to be a clear distinction between what is whining and what is a legitimate issue"

 

- It is ridiculous to think that any group of people would complain about something just for the sake of it. Please could you please point me to examples of this baseless 'whining'?"

 

"There's a line between a whiny girl gamer and a female developer who is actually being discriminated against and disrespected."

 

- To dismiss members of the gaming community who have suffered abuse because of their sex as "whiny" is infantile. This is an example of an attitude held by many in society which demonise the victim merely for speaking out.

 

"I think there should be BALANCE".(like zerg?)

 

"I also equally dislike the hateful and annoying misandrists posing as feminists who think that women should get special treatment and be put on a pedestal above men."

 

- Again please point me to any of these women who are calling for special treatment.

 

 

""There should be more women in the gaming industry."

Sure why not? I wouldn't mind more Jade Raymonds, Amy Hennigs, Kim Swifts, and Soraya Sagas in the gaming industry. But this issue is so complicated. Some of the extremists would probably suggest a quota system, sort of like affirmative action. While things like affirmative action have good intentions, they tend to cause talented people to be rejected in favor of someone who is supposedly disadvantaged but could be less qualified. This is the "women getting special treatment" thing and I don't agree with it. This would only tip the balance and put men in the disadvantaged position. And I know some people will say "Let them see how it feels for once!" but come on. Don't think like that. Then we're back to square one. What we want is equality. I have another method to suggest: education and reaching out."

 

- The gaming industry is so male dominated that it is doubtful a few female appointments would tip the balance. When 46% of games are purchased by women even Stevie Wonder could see that the current lack diversity is not even close to balanced. Taking measures to ensure the appointment of more women would certainly not rob men of the chance to enter the profession.

 

"Encouraging young girls who have an interest in video games to try to get a job in the industry. Educating them so they make good choices for themselves and women to come. But again, we shouldn't suggest putting women at an unfair advantage over men. Remember, we want equality, as well as qualified people."

 

- While education leading to equality is a lovely concept I think it is quite naive to think that anything will change without people being brave enough to draw attention to the problem, something which you seem to dismiss as whining.

 

""I have boobs and a controller! Respect me!"

Now this is annoying and has GOT TO STOP. Female gamers, you earn respect by being good at gaming and being a good sport and person. Having boobs does not automatically mean you deserve respect. You also don't need to capitalize the fact that you're a female. You're a GAMER, so just be one and have fun."

 

- It's quite insulting to think that women can't grasp the concept of earning respect. The issue here is not that women are asking for special treatment it is that attention must be drawn to several sexist aspects of gaming. While there may be a few examples of people attention seeking (by highlighting their sex for example) in the gaming community  they are far outweighed by the majority of women who want nothing more to enjoy their hobby free from any issue being made about their gender. The fact that these women feel the need to speak up shows how endemic the problem is. This is not born from an attention seeking sense of entitlement, there are issues that at least need to be recognised and debated.

 

"Is this whining? A lot of the time it is. But you can see where this is stemming from right? One extreme side sparked up because of another extreme side. Don't expect special handouts for being a girl. But at the same time, harrassment in online gaming is a serious problem that shouldn't be ignored."

 

-This is a confused argument and really does not make sense. Again you seem to be confusing whining with people voicing their opinion.

"I hate how the term misogynistic and racist are just thrown around so loosely. I acknowledge that they are still prevalent problems in America today, but when those terms are thrown around so much, it loses its power and gets an eye roll from people instead of a sense of urgency. Now everything from saying the word "black" to a woman in a video game with big boobs is suddenly "racist" and "misogynistic." How are the young 'uns going to know whats genuine racism and misogyny and whats just some guy drawing a girl with big boobs or randomly deciding that he wanted his characters to have blue eyes and blonde hair?"

 

- You can't attribute the way women are portrayed in video games to a notion of "political correctness gone mad." I think many people would agree that the diversity of women as video game characters is both narrow in appearance and in their narrative role. This in its self makes this an issue of sexism and does not devalue the word.

 

"Also, I don't like the idea of shoehorning minorities in just for the sake of diversity. If you're going to put them in there, then good for you, but make them good characters. I liked CJ, Sazh, Barret, Rodin, Faith, Bayonetta, Madison Paige, etc but that's because the creators took time into making them good characters and not capitalizing on their race or gender. I guess my point is, make good characters, don't just throw in a minority for the sake of "diversity." Also, there are bigger issues in the world to deal with than a fictional character's race."

 

- There is absolutely no reason why the inclusion of non-white males should harm the quality of a game. Of course the narrative should be true to its historical setting (when that is the case) but as designers usually take free liberty in this regard in video games I do not understand why this would be an issue at all.

 

"And you really can't fault a guy for creating a woman in his ideal image. I'm sure a lot of artists do that. We are not going to stamp out sexism by complaining about sexy women in video games. Nowadays, games as appalling as Beat 'em and eat 'em and Custer's revenge would never EVER see the light of day. So since we don't have any grossly and blatant sexism and racism such as that, people scrutinize games and cry foul play on games that aren't either of these things. Do you really think the creator's of Bayonetta, Tomb Raider, or Dead or Alive wanted to force some secret subliminal woman hating agenda on us? Do you think Square enix or Rockstar wanted to force some subliminal racist messages on us with Sazh, CJ, and Barret? Doubt it. Tetsuya Nomura stated himself that he likes Sazh even more than Lightning."

 

- The problem that arises is that if women continued to be portrayed as sexualized objects it becomes more and more likely society will view them in this way. To think that the portrayal of women would have no effect on the perception young women have of themselves is very short sighted. Video games are not alone in this regard but as  games such as Call of Duty make more money than blockbuster movies, the effect video games have on society should not be underestimated. Furthermore the view that men simply want to see tits and asses from female characters in video games is incredibly outdated and offensive to their intellect. Surely men have the ability to understand the complexities of a female character  the same way they do a male.

Out of the characters you've listed at least half have their gender or race as their defining characteristic.  Although it would be nice to think that the creators of these games and characters aren't purposefully trying to be sexist, it is naive to think that these companies don't include these aspects to sell units. They are insulting the intelligence of the male population by insinuating that the inclusion of pixelated boobies will involuntarily cause a man to part with his hard earned cash.

 

"My suggestion is again, to get a wider variety of people in the industry. With this, we get more diverse characters, racial, personality, and gender wise. But I don't agree with forcing developers to change their characters just for the sake of diversity. I mean hey, I like Dante, Nathan Drake, and Niko Bellic. I'm not going to say they should dissapear because they are white men. They can coexist alongside female characters and characters of other races too. The most important thing is that they are good characters."

 

- I don't think anybody is asking for a "vagina-wash" of all male characters just simply a better representation in new video game franchises. I think there is an argument that inclusion of more diverse character would increase the interest and enjoyment of the games. Aren't we all a bit a tired of identical fps "war simulations" with cliched ensembles and a distinct lack of innovation.

 

"Finally...How do we fix this problem?

I've already listed a few suggestions in this little blog. As you can probably tell, I am someone who believes in balance. I'm in the middle of pessimism and optimism. I've tried to be in the middle of this issue too. I acknowledge that there is a problem. The inbalance of men and women in the gaming industry as well as sexism is a very real issue. But we can't simply talk, talk, talk about it. How many decades have we been talking about this issue? How many years have we been saying that this needs to change? How many times has the percentage of female gamers shot up each year, while the number of women in the gaming industry has crept up at a snail's pace? Ladies, its not enough to talk, go DO. I believe that's what all this fuss has been about..."

- When you draw attention to an issue and campaign for change you increase the likelihood of somebody actually taking notice and change occurring.

"Unfortunatley, we will never completley stamp out racism and sexism. But that doesn't mean we have to bend over and take it."

- Then what is the point of not bending over is the first place? There is a rich history of the minority fighting against seemingly overwhelming odds and succeeding to bring real change.  The fact that women can now vote, racial segregation has now ended and we have some semblance of worker's rights are all testament to this. You claim change has to be made but dismiss anybody who highlights the issue as  'whining'.

 

I agree with some of the points you have made in this article (especially the last few sentences) but in my view the fundamental problem with your argument is that you have been dismissive of those who are actually trying bring about change and too quick to label any woman who wants to champion this cause as a radical feminist who wants to live in a matriarchy. The only way to bring about true change is too have some form of consensus between male and female gamers in the community and to demand this change from the large corporations making the games. Sexism does not only affect women, it affects society as a whole and I hate for us to lose this opportunity  to make our community an example of inclusion and creativity because too many people took the middle ground and saw this as a problem without a solution.

As for more women in the industry, I'm all for it. So long as the people companies hire are the ones who can do the job best, I'm 100% okay with it. What I'm not okay with is companies trying to hire people for the sake of gender/race/whatever diversity. Real equality is colorblindness/gender-ignorance.

 

As for the assholes online who say things like "Shut up bitch and make me a sammich", they're assholes trolling for attention. That's what they do. They use everything available to them to try to hurt people, they're (probably) not really a sexist prick in real life, it's just a tool for them to try to hurt people. There's a really cool way to stop all of these assholes. It's called the mute button.

 

On the topic of females being oversexualized in video games, I can't agree with the standard "feminist" viewpoint. First I have to say: look at how men are portrayed in video games. Do you think most men out there live up to the ridiculous totally-ripped chiseled perfect males we see in video games (and movies AND magazines AND pictures AND everything)? I do not expect women to live up to the ridiculous standards set by video games. As I don't think women expect me to live up to the ridiculous standards set by all media. 

If I were to go out and complain about how unrealistically men are portrayed in video games, it would be either ignored, or I would be told to "suck it up". Female gamers, you are not children. This is the real world, full of assholes and perverts and sex. You should be smart and confident enough to know that nobody expects you to live up to Lara Croft or the Dead or Alive beach volleyball women. If you cannot give me that much, then you're showing you are children and need to be protected, and not the strong, independent females you so desperately want to have portrayed.

Men are objectivised just as much as women in games. Women are usually thin with big boogs. Dudes are half naked ripped mass of muscles with taned and oiled body parts. Or they are pretty boys.

And yet I don't see men complaining "oh no, that dude in my game has muscles twice the size of my body, and I can see my receding hairline reflected on his oiled skin...I feel so insecure now and I can't enjoy the game", I don't hear feminists complaining about that either. So why the double standard?

And has anyone seen the dudes in women centered movies, tv shows, mangas, games? They also shame most of the male population in the whole word. Like 99.999999% of them.

Really, it goes both ways. I just hate the "I am the victim" game.

Having more women in the industry won't change a zit. It's not about it being male dominated. Are the women (and men) in the movies any better? No? What a surprise.

They are work of fantasy, characters are prettier, sexyier, more ... "perfect". In games the characters are made from scratch, they are representation of visions/dreams/fantasm from the devs.

So really, it's not about who is in charge (seen who is in charge of Halo 4? And yet the AI is now a sexy lady). It's about the target audience, and the medium that is separate from the real world. Men enjoy some things and women others.

Personally the depiction of dudes in some teenager shows and books gives me goozebumps and I'm pretty sure I am close to barfing. But so what? The readers get their dream boy in a fantasy world, and I'll get my dream girl in my next game. So stop being so insecure and complain every time a women is sexy in a game !

 

 

Simple. Stop behaving like the leader of guild personal prostitute and you will start earning respect as a player. Most if not all women behave like whores in games, seducing virgins and retards to get rewards. Make a simple test. Create a female character and be cute, gentle and flirt lightly with guild members. You will notice that you will get tons of help for your quests and freebies that male players never get unless they have good friends or beg for help.

 

There should be no gender in games but most women make sure others know about it.

Is a good attend to try to promote equality Kristal ;) much better than that two Gamespot girls, that they have not Idea what they talking about.

Sadly... as far as Feminism goes, people like you is in a minority. It is the loud and narcissistic Activists, that constantly give woman's a bad reputation.

Funny... The political movement that suppose to encourage equality.. is the very thing that is pushing men and woman, more  farther apart than never before...

I think you so sensitive about this matter ! Y u dont complain or i complain about guys on games with big muscles and nice body ? Do u know what its better u stop complaining or if we all think in this way we going to atari ages BETTER ? Only ducks and cars or planes u can play with oh and if u lucky u get someone u dont know if he or she is there ...... And not making fun here but i think u females are so sensitive.... In my opinion the have to rate games also as male or female so each one get his own .... And female game industry issue games for u girls that fit your mentality and expectation and if there is any male in that game i ll sue the company is that right ? Is this what u want ?

Krystal, your article is far and above 100x better than the drivvle posted by those Gamespot feminists. I was one of the comments that you probably disliked in the other "article" - something along the line of "Women whining, shock." But that's all their article was - a feminist whine with no specific problems highlighted or potential solutions, just "WAH WAH WAH SEXISM WAH WAH". Yours is different, yours is constructive. You point out the problems, and the solution you wish to see (which is equality). So props to you. 

 

However, I can't help but feel that the issue isn't as great as it's being made out to be though. If it's anything like EVERY-OTHER-MALE-INDUSTRY, then women actually have it much much easier than guys. While there may be 10 guys to every 1 woman applying to a position, the woman is more likely to get the position BECAUSE she's a woman - I can't count the amount of positions I've been passed over for in favour of a woman simply because the company/gym had very few women (I'm a Personal Fitness Trainer, very male dominated industry) - now that to me is sexism, being passed over purely for having a wang -- but I understand the reason why it happened and just leave it be. I can't help but feel the games industry would be much the same, simply having a vagina would give you brownie points over an equally qualified male because of the "rarity" of women in the industry and more women in the industry would actually have the reverse effect and make it more of a level playing field for applicants. 

 

So while I do believe equality is the right path, I don't believe the issue is as unbalanced as it's being made out to be. Yes, there are douchebags who harass girl gamers, there are also others who basically worship them for simply being a girl. There are also girls who not only expect respect/attention for being a girl, but fucking GET IT - and in excessive amounts, an example would be a streaming site such as Twitch TV.. The amount of female casters on there who do nothing different to most of the male casters (in fact a lot of them are less entertaining), get triple the viewers (and this can/does equate to money). Why? Female. 

 

So in summary, perhaps the divide is not so great. There are issues, no doubt, but when we take everything and look at the big picture - how unequal is it really? 

 

Just a viewpoint from the other side of the fence.

The reason why we have "sexism" in games e.g. sexy female characters is becasue the young male audience is the largest consumer of videogames, including these themes such increases interest in that demographic and thus profits. if there were as many female gamers consuming as their are males then things would almost certainly be different. What we need to do is increase the amount of girls who play games, this is done by teaching kids from childhood that gaming is not just a "boy thing" but that it is ok for them to join in to. The only way it can be fixed is to even the demographic of males and females that play video games as long as a skew exists in the demographic then this will an issue.  

So are you saying women should be playing games instead of cooking and ironing and cleaning? What the hell? Massive fail!

I think sexism and the idea of it can almost entirely be attributed to overly sensitive and entitled women. I mean come on, video game girls with big boobs? yeah, guys like big boobs, what of it? And we all know that guys represent the majority of gaming audience. Besides, girls tend to like guys with lean muscles, and you dont see men screaming sexism over all the musclemounds in dead or alive. As for sleazy/rude comments, just return the favor, and move on. Its not like guys dont get bashed for all sorts of stuff all the time. Basically, to all who complain about sexism - get used to it or get over it. Youre making an issue out of nothing. Still this is a trend of the times i guess, as we live in a day and age where complaining minorities are afforded way more attention and slack than they deserve. Its true that women are a minority in the video game industry today, but i dont think this is because women are in some way discriminated against. Its just that the industry is more appealing to men. Its like you dont find alot of women in car workshops or men in perfume stores. Now im not bashing you or anything, you come across as respectful and abstain from much of the usual feministic crap, which is more than can be said about most women who bring up these subjects. Still i kinda feel that most of the issues you talk about, are really non-issues. Bottom line, if you are a talented and qualified developer, youll likely get a job. If not, then you probably should think about finding something else to do. Because chances are your gender doesnt have as much to do with it as you think.Oh, and if you decide to pursue a career in the game industry someday, then good luck to you!

I think if more people, guys and girls, would stop whining and complaining about this pointless topic we could have more content about video games not just frequent he said , she said bs.

I think the main problem though is the fact that male gamers are very frequently looked down upon by females (and to a certain extent other males) who are not themselves gamers (and that makes up a significant majority of the population). We're called geeks, nerd and other negative conotations for simply doing what a lot of us love doing. I can't tell you the number of times I've had to defend why guys (and myself as well) play video games to a bunch of girls and even after explaining it, they still look think that we're all just a bunch of idiots who need to grow up. When that happens, it's only natural for guys (although I'm not saying it's right), to want to bash female women at every turn.

At least here in the States, I think it's safe to say that the VAST majority of gamers are male. So, logically, it would make sense for the gaming industry to be predominantly composed of males. Eventually, gaming will become more mainstream among females, and, consequently, more females will work their way into the industry.

How is there sexism in the gaming industry? They employ people who address the companies needs and wants, not by their gender. They can't just employ some woman just because it makes them appear nonsexist and has no real advantage.

 

It's also very annoying of you to tell other women to not talk but go do instead, seriously? When all you're doing is complaining in a blog?

 

And half looking through the rest of your 'blogs', all you apppear to do is complain, about nothing. You say that you've never had to deal with sexism or other female themed abuse but you act like you understand and know what you're talking about in response to it. You complain that games aren't catered for you. Since when were games catered to people?? They are made by the developers, they make what they like and try to sell it. If you want a game catered to female gamers and you want women in the gaming industry, do it you're god damn self like everybody has to (sorry it's literally how the world works), make your own development team of females and make a game catered to females, because apparantly you women who demand equality and sexism to be rid of want a game catered especially for you, because you must like something different than males??

 

That is all. Goodbye.