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29Jan 12

Hello everyone, for this blog, I thought I would steer away from game reviews for something thats part question and part rant.

As you can guess from the title, its regarding the newly released FF13-2 , which presents a dilemma for me , which I think applies to quite a few people.

For the record, Im not speaking from a position of nostalgia, I personally do not believe a game ages, but I do not necessarily look at the past with a rosy view, there are good and bad games in every generation , and sometimes , sequels are better than the originals (Im looking at you Virtua Fighter 2)


Final Fantasy X Box Front

to understand this question , one has to go back some 10 years ago.

At that time, I had just gotten my PS2 (after seeing and playing MGS2 at a friend's house) and the first game I bought for it, was Final Fantasy 10 . I like RPGs, I like the Final Fantasy series, and so FF10 was a logical choice for me.

It was a worthy purchase, as FF10 became one of my favourite RPGs. Sure it wasn't perfect, the dialogue was occasionally cheesy, sure Tidus looked and said stupid things, and sure Seymour had a name that would fit the Captain of a boat , but overall it was a great game.

What FF10 did right , was pacing, and how much freedom it gave you. Game developers have long contended with this issue, how much freedom to give to the player? give too little, and the game becomes a conveyor belt, give too much , and it becomes inconsistent. FF10 in my opinion , gave just enough freedom to explore , and enough things to do , while keeping a consistent plot and narrative.


Final Fantasy X-2 Box Front

We then move on to FF10-2 , I will admit it, I pre orderd that game, I liked FF10 that much , I mean , more FF10 , can't be bad right?

The problem with FF10-2 had to do with it being very much a worse FF10 that was more cheesy (in a bad way), and the plot was weak , even with the branching paths , it still bored me, and made me wonder if more attention was paid to Yuna's behined , than to the game's plot. Instead of Tidus trying to find his home, it was Yuna trying to find Tidus , just nowhere near as interesting. The combat was nice though , which is really what saved the game from being outright bad, and pulled it into the mediocre area.


http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bigboxshots/1/459841_74509_front.jpg

I never played FF11, as Im not much of an MMO fan , but when I first heard about FF12, I bought it on the first day it was released. Screenshots for the game, showed the game would be very different to anything else in an FF game.

sadly, different didn't mean good.

The game did have amazing production values, no doubt , it looked amazing for a PS2 game, the music , while uninspiring at times, was overall pretty good.

Where I believe Square Enix went wrong, was trying to force an MMO-like game, into a single player JRPG.

MMO games are , by their nature, social games, you interact with others, part of the fun is making new friends and travelling a digital world with them , you don't need a strong sense of consistency, nor do you need a great story, you and your friends make your own story.

FF12 tried this, it gave you a huge open world to explore, you could go pretty much anywhere you wanted, the first time I saw the vastness of the world, I thought "wow, this is going to be epic".

However, the story, tried to do the nearly impossible thing of telling a consistent plot, overlaid a huge , open ended world.

The characters lacked any sort of personality, at most times I wasn't sure who was the main hero , or what were their motives, and just for fun , Vaan looked like the product of Tidus and Yuna having a child, who was apparently an Aladdin fan , dressing exactly like him (is there a Disneyworld in FF12?, DLC idea)

The game also tried a very political plot that just didn't mesh with anything.

now of course, some would say "but the Elder Scrolls is also open ended, and its fun" , which is true, but then , Elder Scrolls doesn't attempt to tell a good story, the main plot is pathetic, but the side quests and extras are what keeps the game going. FF12 didn't have too much of that, Animal hunting got boring after a while, and tried to pretend like it had a consistent plot to tell, it really tried to be a first person MMO game.

The combat itself was ok , it was either super complex, or super simple, depending on what approach you took

and added to this was the license system , which really forced you to guess. You couldn't just equip a shield or a sword , you had to unlock it on a grid, not knowing where it was.


http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/bigboxshots/0/928790_75738_front.jpg

After this , one would expect me not to buy FF13, but I did, I still felt I should give Square another chance, especially since I did like Crisis Core on the PSP (though Dirge of Cerberus is mediocre at best, CC was a great PSP RPG, limited, but quite fun for what it was)

At first, the game was great, initially the plot seemed interesting , you were thrown right into the action , the combat was interesting , the battle system honestly reminded me of Panzer Dragoon Saga in some ways, the music was good, and all of this was encased in some of the best visuals Id ever seen for any console game.

However, things quickly turned around when I saw the linearity of the initial part of the game didn't end, and just went on and on. it wasn't just linearity, it was a "walk forward and occasionally jump somewhere" type of linearity.

It seems to me , that Square tried to address the inconsistency issues with FF12 by making the game more linear, but talk about overdoing it. there was literally nothing to explore until the very end of the game, its almost like "you survived this? here is some breathing space", almost like the devs realized late into the game's development, they essentially put the player on a conveyor belt , that turned into an endurance marathon.

The story was better in FF13 , I will give it that, the characters had a bit more backgrounds , the story was more interesting , but it still bored me pretty quickly, I didn't mind that Hope was a crybaby, I didn't mind Vanille's rather occasionally silly voice , I even didn't mind the fact you need an encyclopedia to understand the game, but pretty quickly, I found myself losing interest in the story , not helped by silly terms and concepts which occasionally confused even me. the story started off well ,but lost me at a certain point.

Although I could say that I also got sick of characters getting recycled to some extent, Vanille was really an updated Rikku in many ways, which in turn felt like a less trecherous Selphie (FF8) , Lightning was really just a brooding, cold character like Squall or Cloud.

now I understand repetition and recyciling are inevitable, but it really started to get old.

the thing that once again saved the game from being totally mediocre, was once again , the combat, which in some ways felt like a modern Panzer Dragoon Saga, although at times it did lead you to just press "attack" and do nothing else.

did I have more fun with FF13 than I did with FF10-2 and FF12? arguably yes, but not by a whole lot.


of course, some people might be asking "why are you being so harsh" or "why do you place so much importance on the story" , well.

1 ) This is Final Fantasy, which for alot of people , is the RPG by which other RPGs are judged by , so for it to only be , ok, its odd. almost like a student which gets an A+ for years, and then all of a sudden gets a B , hes not stupid, and arguably there are many dumber students than him, but he will view it as a failure, especially since he now finds there are smarter people than him.

2) This is a JRPG, story is a crucial part of it, a JRPG with poor storylines , is like a fighting game with bad collision detection it works and can sometimes be fun , but it takes away alot from the game.



Final Fantasy XIII-2 Box Front


And now we come to FF13-2, Ive been hearing this game is improved over FF13, Ive been hearing about time travel , a better plot, monster catching.

but then I have to ask , what if its just hype? what if I end up feeling even more stupid for buying it? is my money better spent elsewhere?

you know the saying, "fool me once , shame on you, fool me a 2nd and 3rd time, still shame on you, fool me a 4th time , shame on me" , and Im afraid thats what happened, insanity is defined by doing the same thing over and over , while getting bad results.

Am I still going to get FF13-2? maybe , but unlike the others where it was an almost day one purchase, I will have to think a while before spending money on this one.


so this was my rant of sorts regarding this subject, if you read through this and survive, you deserve a medal

so what do you all think ? are you planning to get FF13-2? anybody feel the same? different? or am I just complaining for nothing?

also , if you did buy the game, what are your initial thoughts about it?

thanks for reading

70 comments
TheRaiderNation
TheRaiderNation

Pretty interesting read, thanks for posting this. I loved the FF series during the 16-bit era, and even into the 32-bit era. The last game in the series I played was FF10. I completely agree pacing and freedom really was nice in this game. My problem was I just could not get into the story at all, and that really left a sour taste in my mouth. Previous FF games, I really enjoyed the story, something just changed last generation with FF games. I had heard from many people and read that since FF10, your freedom became very limited. The games had a very linear feel to them. I never bothered going any further than FF10.

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

Pretty interesting read, thanks for posting this. I loved the FF series during the 16-bit era, and even into the 32-bit era. The last game in the series I played was FF10. I completely agree pacing and freedom really was nice in this game. My problem was I just could not get into the story at all, and that really left a sour taste in my mouth. Previous FF games, I really enjoyed the story, something just changed last generation with FF games. I had heard from many people and read that since FF10, your freedom became very limited. The games had a very linear feel to them. I never bothered going any further than FF10.

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

As a long time FF fan, just like Japanese Charlies Angels I mean X-2 I refuse to get XIII-2. And I liked X a whole lot more than XIII. The thought hasn't crossed my mind :lol: For me my last hope for FF is Vs 13. If that ends up being almost as disappointing as XIII was for me (easily my most disappointing game for the past decade) SE will be losing a long time fan and supporter. I thought 13 started off well but man it sure tanked soon after. I personally think that Wada should have been given the boot a long long time ago. Especially after that FF13 is like CoD comment prior to 13's release. Good read bro.

SchumiF1
SchumiF1

As a long time FF fan, just like Japanese Charlies Angels I mean X-2 I refuse to get XIII-2. And I liked X a whole lot more than XIII. The thought hasn't crossed my mind :lol: For me my last hope for FF is Vs 13. If that ends up being almost as disappointing as XIII was for me (easily my most disappointing game for the past decade) SE will be losing a long time fan and supporter. I thought 13 started off well but man it sure tanked soon after. I personally think that Wada should have been given the boot a long long time ago. Especially after that FF13 is like CoD comment prior to 13's release. Good read bro.

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

@Aero5555 hmm , Im getting both "FF13-2 is great" comments and also the otherwise. maybe its deserving of the score GS gave it

Darkman2007
Darkman2007 ranger

@Aero5555 hmm , Im getting both "FF13-2 is great" comments and also the otherwise. maybe its deserving of the score GS gave it

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

FFXIII-2 doesn't have a better plot. It's more like a more straight forward easy to follow plot. And for that reason I prefer XIII over XIII-2. It starts out great but gets cliche and too branchy and inconsistent halfway through. It's also very short. 25 hours without grinding. And yeah, XII sucked. Thank God XIII redeemed FF (for me, atleast).

Aero5555
Aero5555

FFXIII-2 doesn't have a better plot. It's more like a more straight forward easy to follow plot. And for that reason I prefer XIII over XIII-2. It starts out great but gets cliche and too branchy and inconsistent halfway through. It's also very short. 25 hours without grinding. And yeah, XII sucked. Thank God XIII redeemed FF (for me, atleast).

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

Really? I found them quite easy to pick up because their meaning could be easily deduced from the dialogue. Or at least that was my take. I like 'em. :P That's just me. I think it would face a bigger problem if they actually used English words. What if instead of Fal'Cie the characters said "the mechanical gods?" Not only would it cause confusion between these beings and the real gods of FFXIII, but it would sound sillier. And what do you call a L'Cie? A witch? Overall, I think it was probably for the best. P.S. I wonder if Fal'Cie comes from "False."

hakanakumono
hakanakumono

Really? I found them quite easy to pick up because their meaning could be easily deduced from the dialogue. Or at least that was my take. I like 'em. :P That's just me. I think it would face a bigger problem if they actually used English words. What if instead of Fal'Cie the characters said "the mechanical gods?" Not only would it cause confusion between these beings and the real gods of FFXIII, but it would sound sillier. And what do you call a L'Cie? A witch? Overall, I think it was probably for the best. P.S. I wonder if Fal'Cie comes from "False."

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

@hakanakumono it was more the names than concepts, Falcie, lcie and the rest of those,. I honestly forgot some of those terms altogether.

Darkman2007
Darkman2007 ranger

@hakanakumono it was more the names than concepts, Falcie, lcie and the rest of those,. I honestly forgot some of those terms altogether.

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

I didn't find the terms too hard to understand because they're concepts based on a mish-mash of universal archetypes. What I'm talking about is the "moms are tough" line. This line in the Japanese caught me off guard because of the archaic Japanese she uses. Looked it up and apparently it's an old saying "women may be weak, but mothers are strong" ... except it would sound a bit more poetic due to the archaic Japanese. "Moms are tough" evokes the opposite feeling ... which is why I think it's making fun of it.

hakanakumono
hakanakumono

I didn't find the terms too hard to understand because they're concepts based on a mish-mash of universal archetypes. What I'm talking about is the "moms are tough" line. This line in the Japanese caught me off guard because of the archaic Japanese she uses. Looked it up and apparently it's an old saying "women may be weak, but mothers are strong" ... except it would sound a bit more poetic due to the archaic Japanese. "Moms are tough" evokes the opposite feeling ... which is why I think it's making fun of it.

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

@hakanakumono well, thats the benefit of knowing Japanese (well that and being able to speak Japanese), I couldn't understand the Japanese version. that said, at times I can understand why the translator would be laughing at the text, some of it was very grandiose, with odd terms I kept forgetting :P

Darkman2007
Darkman2007 ranger

@hakanakumono well, thats the benefit of knowing Japanese (well that and being able to speak Japanese), I couldn't understand the Japanese version. that said, at times I can understand why the translator would be laughing at the text, some of it was very grandiose, with odd terms I kept forgetting :P

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

For the same reason I only own a Japanese copy of FFXIII. Not just the voice acting (read: direction), but the Japanese dialogue is actually better than the English counterpart. I don't trust Square to do a decent job. In fact, one line in particular has me wondering if the translator was making fun of the project that he was working on.

hakanakumono
hakanakumono

For the same reason I only own a Japanese copy of FFXIII. Not just the voice acting (read: direction), but the Japanese dialogue is actually better than the English counterpart. I don't trust Square to do a decent job. In fact, one line in particular has me wondering if the translator was making fun of the project that he was working on.

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

@exber at least someone agrees with me on X-2 :P . @hakanakumono yeah the battle systeim in 13 was fine, just the story and pacing seemed rather boring, but why would you want XIII-2 in Japanese? its out in English

Darkman2007
Darkman2007 ranger

@exber at least someone agrees with me on X-2 :P . @hakanakumono yeah the battle systeim in 13 was fine, just the story and pacing seemed rather boring, but why would you want XIII-2 in Japanese? its out in English

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

I enjoyed FFXIII, mainly for the battle system. But I'm going to pass on FFXIII-2. My biggest complaint with FFXIII was the great setup was met with very poor execution. It took a very interesting scenario, just like FFX, and failed to live up to the task. FFXIII-2, however, doesn't even appear to have the potential. Moreover, the battle system is supposed to be easier than FFXIII-2. Overall, it's just not worth importing for the Japanese dialogue which would cost me close to 100 USD. As for linearity, I played FFX directly after FFXIII with the impression that it was more linear simply with better pacing. Also, for the person who said that Type-0 has nothing to do with FFXIII, this is not true. Having played the game to completion, not only is there very similar mythology at work (with L'Cie taking part in the story), but there are similar developments in the ending of the game that players may be able to connect to FFXIII.

hakanakumono
hakanakumono

I enjoyed FFXIII, mainly for the battle system. But I'm going to pass on FFXIII-2. My biggest complaint with FFXIII was the great setup was met with very poor execution. It took a very interesting scenario, just like FFX, and failed to live up to the task. FFXIII-2, however, doesn't even appear to have the potential. Moreover, the battle system is supposed to be easier than FFXIII-2. Overall, it's just not worth importing for the Japanese dialogue which would cost me close to 100 USD. As for linearity, I played FFX directly after FFXIII with the impression that it was more linear simply with better pacing. Also, for the person who said that Type-0 has nothing to do with FFXIII, this is not true. Having played the game to completion, not only is there very similar mythology at work (with L'Cie taking part in the story), but there are similar developments in the ending of the game that players may be able to connect to FFXIII.

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

Hey;) I haven't played FFXIII but i can say that if X was great XII was better;) and X-2 is something to avoid:P

exber
exber

Hey;) I haven't played FFXIII but i can say that if X was great XII was better;) and X-2 is something to avoid:P

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

@TheKungFool interesting, what did you find good/bad about FF12?

Darkman2007
Darkman2007 ranger

@TheKungFool interesting, what did you find good/bad about FF12?

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

I can't say I agree with your assessments of FFX and FFXII to be honest, as I found FFXII to be the better by a significant margin. as for FFXIII-2, I'll be avoiding it like the plague; FFXIII has been the biggest dissapointment for me this entire generation, horrible story, horrible battle system, horrible characters, horribly linear etc.

TheKungFool
TheKungFool

I can't say I agree with your assessments of FFX and FFXII to be honest, as I found FFXII to be the better by a significant margin. as for FFXIII-2, I'll be avoiding it like the plague; FFXIII has been the biggest dissapointment for me this entire generation, horrible story, horrible battle system, horrible characters, horribly linear etc.

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

@Hanzoadam I have a feeling Ill do the same, I might get it for the PS3 when it gets cheaper.

Darkman2007
Darkman2007 ranger

@Hanzoadam I have a feeling Ill do the same, I might get it for the PS3 when it gets cheaper.

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

I'm just going to get it when it drops in price like FFXIII did I wasnt too impressed with FFXIII but I want it for my collection

Hanzoadam
Hanzoadam

I'm just going to get it when it drops in price like FFXIII did I wasnt too impressed with FFXIII but I want it for my collection

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

@AzelKosMos well , if you like it , you like it, to each his own I guess, though it bored me personally.

Darkman2007
Darkman2007 ranger

@AzelKosMos well , if you like it , you like it, to each his own I guess, though it bored me personally.

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

In all honesty I stopped reading when you attacked FFXII which by all accounts is my favorite in the series :P I enjoyed XIII despite it's flaws which to me was only the characters, story and plot being terrible. Seems the same will be said of XIII-2 so I expect to enjoy it to the same level.

AzelKosMos
AzelKosMos

In all honesty I stopped reading when you attacked FFXII which by all accounts is my favorite in the series :P I enjoyed XIII despite it's flaws which to me was only the characters, story and plot being terrible. Seems the same will be said of XIII-2 so I expect to enjoy it to the same level.

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

@Hirasugi ah , so someone does agree with me :P @Alchemist3001 you need to play some of the other games in the series,

Darkman2007
Darkman2007 ranger

@Hirasugi ah , so someone does agree with me :P @Alchemist3001 you need to play some of the other games in the series,

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

FFXIII was in fact the first FF game I played 'properly'. I watched an older cousin play FFVII, and I played a little of FFX-2 myself (I couldn't find the first one, which would explain why I unsurprisingly had little idea as to what was actually going on story-wise). Now bearing that in mind, it's not exactly easy for me to look back at the series' previous instalments and compare FFXIII and FFXIII-2 to them. Looking in retrospect at FFXIII, I'd have to say I actually liked it quite a bit. I sometimes prefer following a linear path as opposed to having the option to explore an open world (or something to that effect), and the combat system wasn't too bad. Now whether or not I would feel the same way about it if I had played any of the other titles all the way to the end is another matter. Yes, I do intend to pick FFXIII-2 up (even though I haven't finished the first one yet). Will I do so at its initial retail price? I haven't decided on that yet. :P

Alchemist3001
Alchemist3001

FFXIII was in fact the first FF game I played 'properly'. I watched an older cousin play FFVII, and I played a little of FFX-2 myself (I couldn't find the first one, which would explain why I unsurprisingly had little idea as to what was actually going on story-wise). Now bearing that in mind, it's not exactly easy for me to look back at the series' previous instalments and compare FFXIII and FFXIII-2 to them. Looking in retrospect at FFXIII, I'd have to say I actually liked it quite a bit. I sometimes prefer following a linear path as opposed to having the option to explore an open world (or something to that effect), and the combat system wasn't too bad. Now whether or not I would feel the same way about it if I had played any of the other titles all the way to the end is another matter. Yes, I do intend to pick FFXIII-2 up (even though I haven't finished the first one yet). Will I do so at its initial retail price? I haven't decided on that yet. :P

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

Quite interesting. I have to agree, I was completely mystified by people's excitement for FF12. It felt far too unfocused, and it used its overly stuffy convoluted political infighting to spurse up the sophistication. Unfortuantly this is no different than games inserting nudity and buckets of blood in order to be "mature". Not to mention I felt this nagging guilt that I was completely wasting my time, since the gambit system allows the game to play itself. Me and my friend were both starting the game at the same time, and he managed to get all the way to level 99 for all his characters in a couple of days. Apparently he placed his team into a high respawn point, turned on the gambit, and left the console running for days... I was at level 18 -_-

Hirasugi
Hirasugi

Quite interesting. I have to agree, I was completely mystified by people's excitement for FF12. It felt far too unfocused, and it used its overly stuffy convoluted political infighting to spurse up the sophistication. Unfortuantly this is no different than games inserting nudity and buckets of blood in order to be "mature". Not to mention I felt this nagging guilt that I was completely wasting my time, since the gambit system allows the game to play itself. Me and my friend were both starting the game at the same time, and he managed to get all the way to level 99 for all his characters in a couple of days. Apparently he placed his team into a high respawn point, turned on the gambit, and left the console running for days... I was at level 18 -_-

Darkman2007
Darkman2007 ranger

@xXShortroundXx well , its your choice, I personally can't pre order the game, Im afraid Ill just be disappointed , especially if I pay the full price for it.

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

@xXShortroundXx well , its your choice, I personally can't pre order the game, Im afraid Ill just be disappointed , especially if I pay the full price for it.

xXShortroundXx
xXShortroundXx

I pre-ordered it also, I'm ignoring all reviews good & bad and I've booked some time off work to conincide with it's release. It's what I do when a Final Fantasy in the main series releases haha :P

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

I pre-ordered it also, I'm ignoring all reviews good & bad and I've booked some time off work to conincide with it's release. It's what I do when a Final Fantasy in the main series releases haha :P

Darkman2007
Darkman2007 ranger

@gezegond interesting theory, could very well be true, although if they really want to copy the COD series, they are going about it all wrong

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

@gezegond interesting theory, could very well be true, although if they really want to copy the COD series, they are going about it all wrong

gezegond
gezegond

Now if you read through all that and survived, you deserve a medal as well. :)

DeborahSeeley
DeborahSeeley

Now if you read through all that and survived, you deserve a medal as well. :)

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