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Forums - The AONU Board - In defense of the HD remake (Wind Waker)

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In defense of the HD remake (Wind Waker)
kbaily  
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Jan 25, 2013 2:06 pm PT

So there's a big divide over Wind Waker HD. Some are thrilled to visit one of Link's more unique adventures while others thing this is lazy. Mind you Sony's been doing HD remakes for the last few years now. This year I spend playing HD compilations of Sly Cooper, Ratchet and Clank and Jak and Daxter and there's a slew of other HD Sony collections out there.

To me I say why not? In the case of the above mentioned, I didn't own a PS2 so for me, I got to play a bunch of great platformers I missed the first time around. Isn't that the same thing with the Virtual Console or 3DS shop? Not only do you get to have nostalgic memories but sometimes play something you missed the first time around. Hell when the Wii was selling, people who skipped on the Gamecube were going back and catching up on old GC games hence why used GC games hung around in Gamestops for a good while long after all the Xbox1 games were scrapped. And rereleasing old games in compilations is an easy way to make a profit with little effort.

"But Katie, I already played Wind Waker why do I want to buy it again?" That's like saying you watched a movie once that you liked but don't want to watch it again. How often do movies get rereleased in extra special edition box sets? Now true games aren't movies and sometimes you can enjoy a game but don't feel like playing the whole thing again. The problem is to, with movies if you want to watch an old movie, you can go on Netflix or Amazon and usually find it and have a device to play it in. With games it isn't that simple mostly due to proprietary issues and lisencing. We talked about this in our Virtual Console wish thread.

Now let's talk about the last Zelda remake Ocarina of Time for the 3DS. I have a nephew who is 6 and is already an avid Nintendo fan (thanks to me somewhat). He loves Mario and Kirby and Smash Bros. (as well as Sonic) but really loves Link. Probably because when he was 2 or 3 his mom was playing Twilight Princess while he sat on the floor playing with toys so Link is one of the earliest memories he has. Fast forward, he gets a 3DS with Super Mario 3D Land, Sonic Generations and Ocarina of Time 3D. Here's someone who never played Ocarina before because he wasn't born so for him this is a new experience and it's interesting hearing him go on about how great Ocarina of Time is. There are a lot of youngersters out there for who New Super Mario Bros. Wii was their first Mario game. A lot of kids owned Wiis. Just recently I suggested to my sister in law to pick up the Sonic Classics Collection for the DS (which he could play on his 3DS of course) once again, he loves Sonic, why not expose him to the classics. And no, graphics don't bother this kid, he's loving having a bunch of Sonic games he's not played. Better that from a bargain bin then something like Sonic 06 or Shadow the Hedgehog.

I think we sometimes forget about the next generation. Kids who are only now discovering Mario, Link, Kirby, etc. And it's good that there are HD remakes, and compilations. Don't we want kids loving Mario and friends like we did? Or would you rather them just eat up Skylanders and crappy lisenced shlock.

You can tell I'm the biggest fan because I hate it more than anybody else!"-RPG World

shadowchronicle Site Greeter
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Jan 25, 2013 4:44 pm PT
I don't mind it actually. I like how they changed it a bit, it isn't just something that is made to fit on a better screen. They actually changed the graphics.

kbaily  
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Jan 25, 2013 5:10 pm PT

shadowchronicle wrote:
I don't mind it actually. I like how they changed it a bit, it isn't just something that is made to fit on a better screen. They actually changed the graphics.

Yeah I am annoyed when they promote "HD remake" and it's the same graphics but with shinier edges. Lookin at you SA1 and 2.

But also I like when a remake comes out that either A)Adds some new content or B) fixes problems the first game had. I was really annoyed at Jak II's HD remake for not at least having some way to turn down it's insane difficulty. How hard would it have been to toss a few more health packs around? But one example I use was the XBLA versions of Banjo Kazooie and Banjo Tooie. In the N64 original if Banjo died or left a stage before you collected all the notes or Jinjos, you had to collect them all over again. This was excrutiating for those wanting 100% considering some Jinjos were in sucidal places and when returning to a stage meant the notes reset it meant you had to go collect them all or try to remember which ones you missed. And of course they added leaderboards and online multiplayer but the big thing was they actually did put the Stop and Swap thing the way it was supposed to work...sort of though some didn't like that extras consisted of a desktop theme and icon as opposed to what was speculated were some of the original goodies.

As for the WW HD remake, I'm curious to see how they go about this. Will this be a full disc or download? We've seen Tetra in screen shots which makes me wonder if they're going to add some sort of co-op but how does that affect the later part of the game where she's basically locked up to keep hidden? I also heard that originally there were going to be two more dungeons that we cut out due to time constraints so imagine if those were brought in.

Or maybe they'll do a Master Quest aka a hard version. Some have also wondered if the WiiU pad will serve as the Tingle Tuner. There's a lot to speculate.



Edited on Jan 25, 2013 5:22 pm PT

You can tell I'm the biggest fan because I hate it more than anybody else!"-RPG World

Cloud_765  
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Jan 25, 2013 5:46 pm PT

I actually like the idea of HD remakes, or remakes in general. It's a way for the younger generations to experience what we grew up with. What we find nostalgia in. What we got to play in our heyday. It's pretty awesome to be able to talk to someone much younger than me and hold a discussion about Pokemon Gold/Silver and the Johto region since they got to play that game while I can play it to reminisce on the days of the original Gold/Silver. Ocarina of Time 3D is also a great option. 

As long as the game is remade after a sizeable period of time (~8 or more years) I say definitely worth putting out there. It only bothers me when the game is fairly recent and gets remade soon after. I'm quite fine with something like Wind Waker being remade, since it's been... 10-11 years now? It deserves a remake just like Ocarina of Time did.  

As for SA and SA2, and their GameCube ports/remakes, it's a very rare exception where I'm fine with it SOLELY and ONLY because the Dreamcast had been discontinued. It's a very rare exception. However otherwise, games should be waited on for a while before the prospect of a remake should come into view. 



Edited on Jan 25, 2013 5:48 pm PT
kbaily  
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Jan 26, 2013 5:04 am PT

Since we're on this topic, is anyone interested to see if Nintendo starts making "HD Collections" I mean we've seen Wind Waker here but it makes me wonder, if Nintendo is going to release HD remakes of Wii and GC games or just compilations in general. And the gamepad makes porting DS games work as well.

Seriously Kirby's Anniversary Collection is a pretty good start, you get six games, though personally I would've gladly dropped those episodes of his anime for the DS games but still, after seeing that I would like to see Nintendo do more collections. I'm sure having them for download is great but some of us like having them on one disc. It saves space on the hardrive.

Super Mario Collection HD- Come on that anniversary limited edition was ok but it didn't even have Super Mario World. So Release a collection of Mario All Stars with Super Mario World, and Super Mario 64.

Now we have to think in limits of disc space itself. My friend was mad that the Ratchet and Clank Collection didn't include either PSP game or Deadlocked and my guess was there wasn't enough space on the disc just as the Jak and Daxter Collection didn't include Daxter, Jak X, or The Lost Frontier. So release another Mario HD collection that is Super Mario Sunshine and the 2 Galaxy games. Imagine those in HD.

Zelda Collection HD- Remember that awesome disc for the Gamecube that had Zelda 1, Zelda II, Ocarina and Majora's Mask? Why didn't Nintendo rerelease that for the 25th anniversary? Anyway they should rerelease that disc, maybe throw in Link to the Past, Link's Awakening and the Oracle games. Then do another collection with, well they're already doing WW but maybe a collection with that one, Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.



Edited on Jan 26, 2013 5:04 am PT

You can tell I'm the biggest fan because I hate it more than anybody else!"-RPG World

Cloud_765  
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Jan 26, 2013 11:17 pm PT

Again, oversaturation on games, even collections of older ones, might be a little overkill. Especially those holding games released not too long before the collection. When did Corruption come out? When did Trilogy come out? (Metroid series) Just as an example. I feel collections should much like remakes contain games which needed to be brought back to the gaming public after some sort of stasis. Personally, it would be nice to see an HD Dark Cloud duo from Level 5, like a disc which has HD versions of Dark Cloud 1 and Dark Cloud 2 on the PS3. But as for Nintendo systems, it would be nice to see a collection of the Sonic Advance titles at this point, on 3DS. For Nintendo themselves, I would like a Star Fox collection. We haven't seen the guy much, and even the 3DS remake of 64 can only do so much.



Edited on Jan 26, 2013 11:18 pm PT
ktulu007  
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Jan 27, 2013 2:59 pm PT

There's nothing wrong with remakes, but as a general rule there's no reason to get them if you've still got the original.

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kbaily  
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ktulu007 wrote:

There's nothing wrong with remakes, but as a general rule there's no reason to get them if you've still got the original.

My one friend was a big Ratchet and Clank Fan and for a long time was playing the originals on an old PS2 but it finally died. They also had one of those early model PS3's that was still backward compatable and then it died on them so in this case the Ratchet and Clank HD collection was a godsend.

But you also got to decide what's the best deal. Like remember when they rereleased Chrono Trigger for the DS? For $40??? With only minimal additions. I mean they added in the PSX cutscenes and the monster battler but seriously Square $40 for an SNES game. Nintendo's first party DS games didn't cost that plus fans were annoyed with Square for making pricer DS ports of their games rather than just put them on the VC for $8...until that is the year where they had the double disasters of FFXIII and XIV then all of a sudden there were all of Square's beloved SNES games on the VC.

Another person once asked about downloading the original Sonic Genesis Triliogy on the VC but everyone agreed that he'd be better off getting the Sonic Mega Collection because the Wii could play GC games and you got the original 3, Sonic and Knuckles, Sonic Spinball, Robotnick's Mean Bean Machinem, Sonic 3D Blast, Flicky, and Ristar (what really sucks was The Ooze and Comix Zone were dropped from the US version to avoid the T rating.)

Like with Wind Waker HD here, I'll be pissed if Nintendo tries to make this a full $60 game unless it has some serious extras that make it worth it. I don't think they will but you see the point I'm making.

I do agree that if any Nintendo series deserves a collection right now, it's Starfox. Then it might show Nintendo that the audience does want a new Starfox game.



Edited on Jan 28, 2013 4:08 pm PT

You can tell I'm the biggest fan because I hate it more than anybody else!"-RPG World

Cloud_765  
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Jan 28, 2013 8:37 pm PT

If a remake has enough new features I am willing to get it but I don't ever buy it at full retail price. I just wait for a price drop and buy it used or something.

Most of the time, anyway. I mean I have the Advance port of FFIV but I still wanna get the DS version since it'd be nice to see the entire world of FFIV in higher detail and the bonus features they added are interesting. 

JustPlainLucas
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Jan 31, 2013 12:57 pm PT
As I said countless times, if they put back in the dungeons they took out because they thought they were too hard, I'm all in. If not, count me out.

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Cloud_765  
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Feb 1, 2013 1:49 am PT
Other dungeons? Do tell. I think that'd make for a great remake.
kbaily  
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Feb 2, 2013 7:24 am PT

I have heard tales that originally WW was going to have two more dungeons but were cut out due to time constraints. Hard to say where these would've been. Possibly Greatfish Island, the one that was destroyed and the fish spirit went back to Outset Island. Or maybe the two places where you got the fire and ice arrows. This was mostly rumors and speculation.

Don't know if anyone remembers but EGM had an April Fool's gag that showed a "realistic" looking Wind Waker remake that was a preorder bonus for Twilight Princess as Ocarina was a preorder bonus for WW. This was a hoax but it claimed that along with the updated visuals, it would have 2 missing dungeons.

But there's been speculation about the missing WW dungeons.

You can tell I'm the biggest fan because I hate it more than anybody else!"-RPG World

Cloud_765  
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Feb 2, 2013 10:59 am PT
This just makes me want a Sonic 2 remake with the missing 5 or so zones they were supposed to have. T_T
kbaily  
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Feb 4, 2013 3:02 pm PT

Hey it appears the whole "2 missing dungeons" theory was true in fact Nintendo had plans for 2 additional islands for WW.

http://www.zeldadungeon.net/2013/02/the-two-islands-cut-from-the-wind-waker/

One was called "Stovepipe Island" that was a mountainous island with a village in it and the other was called "GC Island" shaped like a Gamecube, something we'd later see in Phantom Hourglassin the form of "Dee Ess Island" which of course was an island shaped like a DS where you could play a mini game.

wind_waker_gamecube_island.jpg

At least one of these looks as though it would've had a full on dungeon as well as a town area though it does seem very similar to Dragon Roost Island in the whole firey mountain thing. GC island looks as though it would've been another one of those small islands with a tiny dungeon room with a treasure chest in it. Possibly one of those you'd visit to get a Triforce piece.

You can tell I'm the biggest fan because I hate it more than anybody else!"-RPG World

kjhg53  
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Feb 4, 2013 3:52 pm PT

I don't know why we would even need to "defend" remakes of any kind from people. If they have played the game and don't want to buy it again, that's up to them.

But I'm totally down for a remake that includes missing dungeons.

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Cloud_765  
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kj, you would have a f***ing field day if those dungeons get added...
ad0234
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Feb 11, 2013 12:34 pm PT

I don't get why some would call this lazy. I mean, they are working on another totally new Zelda game anyways, which simply takes longer and so they give us this game to offer us a bit more of Zelda during our wait for the next new Zelda game. Plus it's a great way to experience this game for all people like me, who haven't played the Gamecube version of the game. Not the biggest fan of Zelda games, but I'd surely like to give this one a shot, especially since it's in HD.

Cloud_765  
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Feb 12, 2013 12:25 am PT
Most people just have to find a reason to hate something.
Seanronnie22
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Feb 19, 2013 8:48 pm PT
I had alot to say but to tired to say much, so simply put. This is cool move of nintendo becuase they didn't have to give us a HD Remake game with Extra features's (mind you most HD remakes barely have any diffrence from the orginals) and to top it off more content. All while they work on the next game of the series. Like seriously this is pretty badass and its gonna aid the work on the next one since their deciding on an artstyle and redesigning things for the next game.

Edited on Feb 26, 2013 1:46 pm PT

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Cloud_765  
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Feb 22, 2013 2:59 am PT
It's kind of a win-win for everyone involved. It doesn't cost that much to do an HD revamp of a title, I'm sure. It doesn't take a lot of time, customers usually are happy to buy an HD remake to tide them over until a big new release, and the HD remake can inspire the developers, like you said, on what route to take aesthetically for their next game. I can't honestly complain about it.
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Forums - The AONU Board - In defense of the HD remake (Wind Waker)