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Forums - The Islam Union Board - Haram Games?

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Haram Games?
nirvana563
Level 27
Sheng Long
Posts: 2998
Sep 27, 2008 9:15 am PT
Recently I talk to this guy and he adviced me to sell my Zelda games since there haram since there based in a world that was created by "the gods". I took his advice and sold it along with some other games that I wanted to get rid of.

I'm finding it hard to find every day Muslims opinion about video games so I have come hear to see what people think.

In my personal opinion I don't think there are many out and out what I would call a "haram game". Only games that clearly promote things against the faith are haram to me. There are more games that arn't a good idea to play. Most gamers won't admit that games have a large impact on people but so does all media. Face it if you get real hyped up on some violent media of any kind it will change your outlook at life somewhat (slow process like Ad's) maybe not your actions but it has a impact on your mind. I personally don't have many violent games since I had a freak out a while back and sold most of my violent games in part of wanting better faith and in part they where boring me. Face it shooters are boring...IT'S THE SAME GAME. I play Nintendo the most instead of Sony or Microsoft not that you can't play them it's just to me they mostly have violent shooters where Nintendo has some new original ideas for games. The only violent game I have is Resident Evil and some RE knock-of but Resident Evil is more a mystery game then a mindless violent gore fest. Yes there's guns and what not but the game isn't based around the gun. This is just my opinion though.

What's your thoughts?


"I think I'm the only player who looks at each and every center and says to meself, 'That's barbecued chicken down there'" - Shaquile O'Neal [2/27/2009]
mencrettt
Level 13
Toobin'
Posts: 366
Sep 27, 2008 5:15 pm PT

as long as we dont believe it , its not haram i think

and who the hell wants to believe it !!!

nirvana563
Level 27
Sheng Long
Posts: 2998
Sep 30, 2008 6:12 pm PT
mencrettt wrote:

as long as we dont believe it , its not haram i think

and who the hell wants to believe it !!!

WHAT?!?! That doesn't make any sense. Your indirectly agreeing with it when you play it since your poseing anything against it. Plus how does it help your faith? If anything it pushes you away.



"I think I'm the only player who looks at each and every center and says to meself, 'That's barbecued chicken down there'" - Shaquile O'Neal [2/27/2009]
mencrettt
Level 13
Toobin'
Posts: 366
Oct 6, 2008 5:13 am PT

what do you mean by "faith" ?

CCCMON !!!

nirvana563
Level 27
Sheng Long
Posts: 2998
Oct 6, 2008 2:36 pm PT
mencrettt wrote:

what do you mean by "faith" ?

CCCMON !!!

Faith meaning in this case your closeness with Allah.



"I think I'm the only player who looks at each and every center and says to meself, 'That's barbecued chicken down there'" - Shaquile O'Neal [2/27/2009]
mencrettt
Level 13
Toobin'
Posts: 366
Oct 7, 2008 2:58 pm PT

you said that i indirectly agree with it , but like what i said before I DONT BELIEVE IT !!!! agree and believe are not the same thing , and it wont interfere your faith.

i thing



Edited on Oct 7, 2008 8:40 pm PT
nirvana563
Level 27
Sheng Long
Posts: 2998
Oct 10, 2008 7:06 am PT
mencrettt wrote:

you said that i indirectly agree with it , but like what i said before I DONT BELIEVE IT !!!! agree and believe are not the same thing , and it wont interfere your faith.

i thing

How can I break this down.

Take Zelda since that's what this topic sort-of started about.

Now if I play Zelda in your thoery that just because I don't see Zelda as a religious doctrine or anything that it's not wrong. However your indirectly saying it's okay to talk about the "gods" and your fine with people talking about "gods" other then the one true God. So your indirectly supporting polytheism which is against Islam. You follow where I'm going? Correct me if I'm wrong.



"I think I'm the only player who looks at each and every center and says to meself, 'That's barbecued chicken down there'" - Shaquile O'Neal [2/27/2009]
lebanese_boy
Level 50
Strawberry Candy
Posts: 14631
Oct 19, 2008 6:45 am PT

First of all, anybody who believes in Zelda's religion should probably get out of his room more often.

Second of all, there is no such thing as a haram game. It's a game and all that is within is pure fiction. I have already spoken to a sheikh (dunno how to pronounce) and I have only this to say: The only thing haram related to games (this applies to anything actually) is if it takes some of your prayer time. Meaning that it's haram to play games instead of doing your prayers.

I'm a big Zelda fan and I'm a very practising muslim, I have many games involving ''Gods'' but what's actually wrong with it unless it offences Allah or Islam? Unless it's religious propaganda, I can still own and play those games.

nirvana563
Level 27
Sheng Long
Posts: 2998
Oct 19, 2008 4:07 pm PT

lebanese_boy wrote:

First of all, anybody who believes in Zelda's religion should probably get out of his room more often.

Second of all, there is no such thing as a haram game. It's a game and all that is within is pure fiction. I have already spoken to a sheikh (dunno how to pronounce) and I have only this to say: The only thing haram related to games (this applies to anything actually) is if it takes some of your prayer time. Meaning that it's haram to play games instead of doing your prayers.

I'm a big Zelda fan and I'm a very practising muslim, I have many games involving ''Gods'' but what's actually wrong with it unless it offences Allah or Islam? Unless it's religious propaganda, I can still own and play those games.


I never said anything about following Zelda as a religion just that it indirectly promotes polytheism. Second there are things that can be called "haram games" there games that promote things against Islam based fiction or not.

It's seems like this is turning into a point of view type debate. But I'll break it down anyhow.

FPS's: Besides the fact that these games are HIGHLY unoriginal does killing virtual people really helping your faith?
Zelda: I have gone over this before but, besides the violence and there polytheist world, doesn't really help your faith.

It more or less goes back to violence in the media. How it affects your brain and your personality and what not. I used to play a lot of FPS's but then I started to noticed there all the same and the more I thought about it, violent games and games in general do have a big impact on the brain. I don't know what you play but if it's shooters and other really violent games I think you should try to find a moderate to little to no violence game that has some of unique value to it.



"I think I'm the only player who looks at each and every center and says to meself, 'That's barbecued chicken down there'" - Shaquile O'Neal [2/27/2009]
luq_crusher
Level 7
Sectoid
Posts: 7
Oct 26, 2008 10:46 pm PT

Assalamualaikum,

Bros and sisters.

Right, this seems like a very sensitive topic, but I think I will have to give my opinion rather bluntly.

In Islam, EVERYTHING is based on your niat (intentions). EVERYTHING. Every single thing you do. So, I guess if you were to play the game for the heck of it or just for fun, then it's nothing wrong really. Unless you were to play games like "God of War" and really want to glorify Zeus, Hera, Ares, Athena, etc. It all depends on your niat.

This is a COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL example :

If you accidentally saw porn, it doesn't matter. As long as you didn't have original intention of looking at it. But promise yourself that you'll be careful next time, and also, look away. Don't continue looking at it thinking its ok just because it's the first look and its forgiven (like that video on Maniac Muslim LOL) because it's not forgiven, why? Because your niat has changed! Instead of wanting to see something else, you NOW want to see the porn. Get what I mean?

Anyway, like I said, it's only on your intentions. So only play games for the heck of it, not to live it. Remember, the only two who know what your real intentions are you, and Allah.

Thank you, wassalam.

mencrettt
Level 13
Toobin'
Posts: 366
Nov 7, 2008 11:34 pm PT
CASE CLOSED .
nirvana563
Level 27
Sheng Long
Posts: 2998
Nov 17, 2008 1:19 pm PT
Sorry for the late reply. I was on a suspension for stupid crap that I didn't even do.

Anyhow Let's review since these post have been posted on a number of dates.

 

Mencrettt's point: Believing and agreeing are two different things.

 

My rebuttal: You don't have to follow it for it to be haram and that playing it is indirectly supporting it and what it promotes.

 

lebanese_boy's point: It's only a game and it's pure fiction.

 

My rebuttal: It doesn't matter if it's fiction it still promotes things against Islam.

 

luq_crusher's point: It's just a game and as long as you have good intentions and just play it for fun that there is nothing wrong with it.

 

My rebuttal: Your intentions only go so far. You can have what you felt where good intentions and still be wrong. Also this the same point I keep bringing up and that is your indirectly supporting a game when you play it. So whatever it's promoting your now supporting it since your not objectifying the game. Also if you can recall I stated in the first post that I don't feel that very many games are out and out haram, that in fact I think very few games are haram. More that there are lot of games that there is really nothing totally wrong in playing just that there not the best for your soul and keeping your faith strong. And at the end of the day the real question here is do you think God wants you playing games that you kill and do horrible things?

 



"I think I'm the only player who looks at each and every center and says to meself, 'That's barbecued chicken down there'" - Shaquile O'Neal [2/27/2009]
lebanese_boy
Level 50
Strawberry Candy
Posts: 14631
Nov 17, 2008 3:18 pm PT

You know what I think? Do whatever you want, in the end only Allah has the answer on whether it's wrong or not.

I know that what I'm playing is ok within my religion and I got that answer from someone far more knowledgeable then you about Islam. All I have at home doesn't offend in any way Allah or Islam and I'll never let anything like that enter my house.

I repeat and you take it as you want: Unless directly offending Islamic beliefs and/or Allah, any form of entertainment is fine. And all should be used in moderation and not keep you from praying or practising your religion. In other cases, yes it would be haram.

Also I fail at seeing how me playing games could possibly affect my faith. If it does to you then you must have some sort of problem and should probably play less..... but my faith towards Islam keeps growing every single day and video games don't affect it at all.

Video games are simply a form of entertainment and I don't see why Allah would question the fact that you're playing games. The same would go with music and movies. Well ok there are some exceptions for music in Islam but frankly video games do not obstruct Islam in any way unless (again) it targets Islam and insults it.

Point is..... do whatever you want, it's your life, belief what you want. But don't you go out and say as a fact that video games affects our faith and offends our religion. Please don't.

I'm sorry if this seems harsh to you but it's the truth and I'm very sensible on anything said against videogames seeing as I want to become a game developper. Remember: If you pray every day, maintain your faith and pretty much accomplish the 5 main pillars of Islam...... there should be absolutely no objection of you playing video games.



Edited on Nov 17, 2008 3:27 pm PT

nirvana563
Level 27
Sheng Long
Posts: 2998
Nov 17, 2008 4:29 pm PT
Did I offend you? If I did...sorry.

lebanese_boy wrote:

I know that what I'm playing is ok within my religion and I got that answer from someone far more knowledgeable then you about Islam. All I have at home doesn't offend in any way Allah or Islam and I'll never let anything like that enter my house.



Just because you talked to a sheikh or whatever doesn't mean everything he says if truth that's just appealing to his aurtority then. I doubt that's what you meant but just saying.

lebanese_boy wrote:

I repeat and you take it as you want: Unless directly offending Islamic beliefs and/or Allah, any form of entertainment is fine. And all should be used in moderation and not keep you from praying or practising your religion. In other cases, yes it would be haram.



So unless something directly says "Islam" it's okay. Even if it's hinting at it.

lebanese_boy wrote:

Also I fail at seeing how me playing games could possibly affect my faith. If it does to you then you must have some sort of problem and should probably play less..... but my faith towards Islam keeps growing every single day and video games don't affect it at all.



It's that the game can change your personallity. I never said it had a hugh affect on me or you, just that it can.

lebanese_boy wrote:

Point is..... do whatever you want, it's your life, belief what you want. But don't you go out and say as a fact that video games affects our faith and offends our religion. Please don't.



I'm not intending to change your life or whatever I'm just having a friendly debate on the topic.



"I think I'm the only player who looks at each and every center and says to meself, 'That's barbecued chicken down there'" - Shaquile O'Neal [2/27/2009]
nirvana563
Level 27
Sheng Long
Posts: 2998
Nov 17, 2008 4:49 pm PT

And hey lebanese_boy I think you have the wrong idea. I don't think many games are haram just a select few like Zelda and God of War because they openly promote anti-Islamic things but that's just my opinion. However games like Gears of War or Counter-Strike: Source or something like that I just personally don't think is wise to play too much of since it can have a large impact on the brain and can affect a persons personally negatively, not saying yours or mine personally just saying it can on some people.



"I think I'm the only player who looks at each and every center and says to meself, 'That's barbecued chicken down there'" - Shaquile O'Neal [2/27/2009]
lebanese_boy
Level 50
Strawberry Candy
Posts: 14631
Nov 17, 2008 5:13 pm PT
nirvana563 wrote:

And hey lebanese_boy I think you have the wrong idea. I don't think many games are haram just a select few like Zelda and God of War because they openly promote anti-Islamic things but that's just my opinion. However games like Gears of War or Counter-Strike: Source or something like that I just personally don't think is wise to play too much of since it can have a large impact on the brain and can affect a persons personally negatively, not saying yours or mine personally just saying it can on some people.

Oh sorry then I must have misunderstood. But still I disagree with you on which games would change or affect your faith. Only one with a weak mind would be affected so easily. Plus, that person must have not had such a big faith (or any faith for that matter) in the first place.

luq_crusher
Level 7
Sectoid
Posts: 7
Nov 23, 2008 11:06 am PT

Assalamualaikum brothers and sisters in Islam.

Oh crystalballs, crystalballs... (sorry, I have Crystalballs - Keane stuck in my head)

Right.

I can see where all this is going. Now yes, it's true, that video games CAN be detrimental to your health, physically, mentally and spiritually. Yes, it's true that some games promote false beliefs of God. Yes, it's true that not all the things that a sheikh says is true.

Now, come my opinions. I think some of you might have misunderstood what I meant, or I might not have expressed myself to the fullest in my last post.

OK, this is what Islam teaches: (PLEASE CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG)

It depends on what you intend (refer to my last post for the full story). And YES, it's true that intentions can change overtime, from playing it as a hobby, to going hardcore looney over it. This of course is detrimental to your health, mentally and physically. There is an ayah in surah al-baqarah, number two hundred something mentioning that you should not intentionally throw yourself into danger. Hence, the solution is to have...

MODERATION.

Remember, part of being a Muslim is to be moderate, to not miss your five daily prayers, but also not to pray 24-7. To not be an extremist, but to also avoid doing negative things. Know what I mean?

If you play it just to blow off some steam or just for fun, then it's A-OK. As long as you do not overdo it, let it make you miss your prayers, or change your beliefs for the worst. Seriously. It depends on your intentions AND actions (sorry I didn't include this earlier). The best thing you could do would have to be to recite a dua' before you play to beg Allah for his protection from Syirk or something. That could work. But also remember not to keep on asking for Allah to protect you, but to also do other things to recieve His protection, like to educate yourself on what Islam really teaches, or like only play the game in MODERATION.

OK, another issue I see to have arisen is that some games when purchased will show support of polytheism. Honestly dude? C'mon! Like I said, it depends on your intentions and actions. Did you intend to buy it to "educate" yourself about "The gods of Olympus"? Do you "use" it as a guide to worship "the Titans? Do you make it your deen to go around carrying blades of chaos and killing people in the streets of Athens? And then you'll say "but it will start to lead us there". Then like I said, MODERATION! And Dua'! As long as you do not intend to promote it or support it or believe in it or to practice it or to have any relation to it whatsoever other than for entertainment, then you're fine.

Try and do what I do when I feel a game is messing with my mind and faith. Seperate it! Just remember that that thing is only a videogame and goes no further other than to provide entertainment. It only exists in the TV or Computer world, but not in the real world and that la-ilaha-ilAllah, there is no god, but Allah. That might help.

Well, I hope this entry has been able to clear some things up.

 

Wassalam.

rakan959
Level 15
Nobunaga's Ambition
Posts: 434
Nov 27, 2008 1:56 pm PT

Well, if it was a game where the goal was to kill muslims, then it's wrong.  But, then again, according to your friend, that means that playing ANY game in which the main character isn't muslim is haram.  Zelda?  Forget it.  WoW?  Nope.  Fallout 3?  Not happening.  Gears 2?  No dice.

Like I said, if you find a game out there where the goal of the game is to kill all muslims, it's haram, but games like the above are perfectly fine. 

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Napster06
Level 32
Snake Eater
Posts: 5660
Oct 1, 2009 9:01 am PT

Lets view games as a form of entertainment.

 If its off the charts, then it will definitely be haram. 

Check out my Flickr!

ghostphantom563
Level 16
Magician Lord
Posts: 272
Jan 31, 2010 10:22 am PT
Man I just read this topic over for the time in a long time. I was bit of a hardliner. Well I was thinking of this topic again and I'm looking it a little differently.

This is how I see it now.

Video games are entertainment. Not a life$tyleor religious guide.

I can't think of one game, that isn't proganda, that tells the player how to think/feel. Especially on the topic of religion/spirituality.

And like I said before I don't play many really violent video games. For a number of reasons.

1 - I feel that they arn't good for my soul. I know that sounds werid but I do feel odd when I play a lot of violent games.
2 - They tend to have lame plots. I'm big on good plots.
3 - There not that fun.

However with regards to violent video games I feel the concern shouldn't be that there violent. Most video games have some level of violence in them. To me the concern should be mindless violence. Games that have little to no plot or a plot that no one pays attention to, where all you do is kill everything that moves.

So to clearify I'm not totally against violence in video games I just feel there has to be more to it (Plots, Puzzles, Character building, etc.). Games like Metal Gear, Syphon Filter, Resident Evil, and so on. Games where there is violence but it's not the main focus of the game. But overall I try to play games with clear fictional violence and good plots.

But basically if the game isn't mindless I can overlook the fictional killing of people. Since I know that killing people in the real world is a highly atrocious crime against mankind.

This leads me to games that take place in fictional, Polytheistic worlds. (Zelda, Starcraft, Soulcalibur, God of War, etc.)

At times I feel like a hypocrite if I can overlook something like murder and not a fictional Polytheisic world.

Then I feel like, maybe both are wrong and I shouldn't play any games with violence or Polytheisic worlds. But then I feel like a extremeist.

But people here brought the topic of intenstions. Of Which I both agree and disagree with them.

Since yes, it's just a game and not a spiritual guide. But at the same time I feel like I'm saying that it's okay to me to play a game with views totally different then my own.

So I'm still not 100% sure how to feel on the issue.
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