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Union Formations and Race-specific Party / Parties

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  • Feb 4, 2013 9:24 am GMT
    I'm on a New Game Low-BR run and I'm trying to choose my teams. Are race-specific formations worth it? Can I stick Maddox/Pagus/Sibal/Darien together and get a decent team?

    Or Gaou/Blocter/Baulson... and the likes?

    I was more or less winging my teams, as right now most of my team is focusing on Mystic Arts in 2 formations, and the Melee types (Baulson/Blocter) are on a 3rd team. I put Emmy with Oakes...

    Because i'm BR 6 right now and I'm about to head into the Aqueducts. I have my 13 current teammates fully set-up for learning their appropriate jobs and skills.

    I'm not sure how I'll finalize my teams, and I'm wondering if certain formations can be better than have skill-specific teams. I.E, if a full-Qsiti team can become Overkill with the appropriate formation, I'd like to know from you guys' experience.

    Right now I have:

    Union 1 :
    Rush / Torgal / Caedmon / Pagus / Nora

    Union 2:
    David/ McGrady / Empty / Violet / Loki

    Union 3:
    Blocter/ Baulson / Gabriel

    Union 4:
    Emmy / Oakes

    So as you can see, I only have 13 people in my team. I'm prolly missing Gaou, Yuniver, Zolean, Maybe Paris and Hinnah/Hannah when I get them... then I'll remove Blocter.

    What are the best formations I can create with this kind of team? I plan to Ultimate BR Grind a bit, so Glenys is getting to sit the bench, I imagine... Am I on the right track? I would really need some Union formation guidance, if anybody can pitch in on their ideas to help me grind the appropriate team members and fit them in the best formations possible, I'd be forever thankful.

    I want at least one team that can unleash those 'team arts', forget the name. And I'm probably going to use Rush / David / Emmy / Gaou as potential leaders. The 5th one.. Who should get it? Jager would be a smart choice but he won't get in on the BR Grind, so who else could compare?

    Thanks.
    ---
    I'm A Man of Principles, Damn Near Invincible
  • Feb 5, 2013 9:24 pm GMT
    Step foot into the Aqueducts, leave, go to Baaluk. You now have 15 units (you actually have 14 listed). Gaou can be hired before finishing Part 1 since the only trigger is entering the Aqueducts. This does alter the rewards for a few guild tasks, like making Acokus and a few others unavailable for hire if their guild task hasn't been completed yet. I would have dropped Oakes and McGrady long before hitting the Catacombs. Picking up Faye and Perneth would've been my choice.

    I never bothered with race-specific formations or unions. If they happened to end up that way, it just happens. The only ones I would bother with are the SPD+ formations, which require Yama, and maybe a few of the ones that require Sovani, because they're fun to play with. Otherwise, eh. You can get a decent union out of them if you manipulate their classes and/or relegate them to specific tasks within the union.

    My question to you is this: why are Torgal and Caedmon in a mystic union? Other than for possibly sparking Blackout/Whiteout. Picking up Roberto isn't a bad idea either. Effectively gives you a free Bard + union ailment clear. Darien doesn't take much to recruit, so you should have him by now (right before the Nest of Eagles at the earliest). Don't forget about those quests with cutoffs if you want fight the Rank 8 Conqueror.

    Most of the units you have right now are combat units. So really, you should have 1 mystic union and the rest combat/support. Pagus is the only definitive mystic unit. Rush, David, Nora and Loki are considered Balance units can be trained any way you want. Everyone else is better off smacking things with their weapons. Caedmon, while a combat unit, can go either way as well since he has decent stats all around and has a decent starting Evo rank. I wouldn't bother worrying about formations; it's the union composition that needs work. What you have is fine for now, but there are a number of units that could be considered missing. If would helpful to know what types of unions you're planning to have in the end, along with a list of units that you would like to use. Doesn't matter if you go over 18, just a list would be good.

    What you're looking for is likely Arcana. Blackout might be it. I like Zolean as one of my union leaders. But there's also the fact that I like Rush in his own solo union for support/tanking and tend to run with mystic-heavy teams. Torgal is another good leader to have around. Remnant WA, potential WA, strong leader, good for leading combat unions.
    ---
    Now playing: Fire Emblem Kakusei, Borderlands
    Hoyt GMX 23", Hoyt Epic 32lbs, 8125, Carbon One 900
  • Feb 5, 2013 10:05 pm GMT
    Thanks for the reply, Sunzi. I'll tell you what characters I was planning on having and the classes I was planning for them.. So far I have 17 in mind.

    Rush - Ninja (Mystic)
    David - Assassin (Mystic)
    Baulson - Guardian (Combat)
    Pagus - Commander (Mystic)
    Nora - MysticKnight (Mystic)
    Haruko - MysticKnight (Mystic)
    Torgal - Paladin (Mystic)
    Loki - Scholar (Mystic)
    VIolet - Scholar (Mystic)
    Emmy - Cavalier (Combat)
    Glenys - Cavalier (Combat)
    Caedmon - Ataraxian (Mystic - Combat)
    Yuniver - Thaumaturge (Mystic)
    Zolean - Sage (Mystic)
    Khrynia - Alchemist (Mystic)
    Blocter - Guardian (Combat)
    Gaou - Hunter (Combat)

    And here are some more choices..

    Hinnah
    Hannah
    Ghor
    Jager
    Paris
    Irina
    Roberto
    Maddox

    Now as you can see from the classes I gave Torgal and Caedmon, I believe I have to build them up to significant Mystic to get them to change to that... But I'm not sure that's a good idea from your opinion anymore. I just put them in the first Union so Torgal doesn't boost his Combat Arts up, and Caedmon can use Silencer/Eclipse as well... Am I doing this right?

    I Plan to have 5 Unions in the end. Probably in a 4/4/4/3/3 formation

    Rush Mystic Union (4) - Back Attacks
    David Mystic Union (4) - Back Attacks
    Zolean Mystic Union (4) - Arcana
    Emmy Combat Union (3) - Snowpetal
    Ghor - Baulson - Gaou? Combat Union (3) - Yama Union

    What do you think? I'm SO confused with all the planning ahead. I just don't want to miss out on something crucial that could make my teams much stronger from lack of experience. And you seem to think most of my units would do better as Combat units when I'm building them as Mystic... It's not too late to switch things around, but what do you think? Thanks alot...
    ---
    I'm A Man of Principles, Damn Near Invincible
  • Feb 6, 2013 7:33 pm GMT
    You have a few ways of getting Torgal to Paladin. The first is to bench him until he reaches BR45 for requesting Psi. Then deploy him for at a battle to flag him as active for the question. From there, it's just a matter of getting Psi>Evo (not hard) while also raising WT (alternate between QW and DPG to keep from developing them too far). Once he satisfies the conditions for Paladin, toggle off all DPG arts since Deathknight would be an upgrade at Rank 6. Another way is to allow him to learn Potions for Bard, then bring up Psi. You can still use CAs as long as you keep his WT levels below his Mystics levels. This is because Item+Mystics co-significance is valid for a Mys+Com class change. Caedmon naturally progresses to Ataraxian if you use MA+CA. He just happens to have a high starting Evo rank, which is useful for the Nest of Eagles as Silencer is likely your first union-targeting art. Unless you also hire Perneth for Hex.

    Other units. Kinda pointless for David to be an Assassin and a mystic unit. Reason being that you have to waste your time training everything: OH+Sword+Items for Assassin, Invo(+Rem) for mystics. As much as I like that combo (and use it myself for lulz), it's a little impractical unless you want to invest time into it. He also loses the [Invo] boost once he's out of Mysticknight. Haruko will never end as a Mysticknight. By the time you even get Invo trained, she would have ended as a Bishop or Cavalier due to her high starting Rem. Her possible classes are Healer, Bishop, Scholar and Cavalier. Emmy is better off as a Ninja if you're going to use her for combat. Cavalier is for tanking. Unless you want her to tank. But that does mean that you have to sacrifice DW to keep her from ending as a Ninja. Also, Guardians are kinda useless to have around if they're not leading. They give the union the opportunity to use the Defend command. They can't use that if they don't have someone with [Defender] leading or the Decoy status. Khrynia will always end with an Item-type class, so she will never choose a MA for the all-out commands. Might as well stick her in a combat union and have her throw around those Shards with a few uses of Demonsblow while she's at it. Violet is a candidate for tanking physical damage, so she does very well as a Cavalier. She can also deal a lot of damage as a Thief, but does lose command flexibility with that change. Not a mage. Loki is pretty flexible, so Scholar is fine.

    The other units you have listed are good. Might pop in Sibal since he's a free Guardian. Would definitely deploy Roberto because Bards are awesome to have around for their [Debuff Duration] effect (can also use Sages for that). If you want to use a qsiti-centric union, then also pick up Leshau. Him, Pagus, Maddox and Ludope are some of the best casters in the game (although Ludope could be lacklustre by the time you hire him).

    In practice, there's no point in having 2 union leaders with [Ambush]. You also can't get the rear assault command until the target has been deadlocked by another union. If you're sticking them in those classes for other reasons, that's fine. I tend to disregard the Assassin's [Ambush] in favour of the SPD+10% for intercepting, and Ninja for the DW+15% bonus. If you want better damage output, then you should change one of your mystic unions into a combat union. To cover the basic team's needs, you only need a Cachexia union (small, flank), an Arcana union, and the rest can be combat/support.

    I don't think that most of them are better off as combat units. I know that they're better off as combat units. Their growth types and starting stats practically give it away. Some units, like Nora and Loki, are a little more ambiguous so they can end up in any of the 3 types. There's also the issue of their ending classes. You want to capitalize on what they're good at.


    Then again, it's your file. Do what you want.
    ---
    Now playing: Fire Emblem Kakusei, Borderlands
    Hoyt GMX 23", Hoyt Epic 32lbs, 8125, Carbon One 900
  • Feb 7, 2013 12:06 pm GMT
    Hey, Sunzi. Thanks so much for the feedback. I hadn't played this game in a while, so I had a few misconceptions and confused distant memories. I was under the impression that Mystic unions were better DPS than Combat unions. But if you consider most of the hardest fights are against single-unit unions, having AoE spells won't help for that.


    After going through the forum reading up on suggestions, I fell onto a thread that I STARTED back in 2009 (the irony!) about how to plan my Unions.

    http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/950908-the-last-remnant/49302156

    Basically I summed my team up like this in the end:

    Rush (Ninja) = Combat Union #1, Rear Assault
    Torgal (Hawkarang)
    Allan (Holy Win)
    Gaou

    Emmy (Ninja) = Combat Union #2, Rear Assault
    Baulson
    Caedmon (Heaven's Door)

    Jager (Beowulf) = Combat Union #3, Tanks
    Glenys (SwordFlash)
    Roberto

    Duke of Ghor (Belkwinith's Fury) = Combat Union #4, Healing Duty Union
    Sibal -Rez-Healer-
    Gabriel (Cerulean Rain) -Rez-Healer-

    Wyngale (Warlock) = Mystic Union #1, Nuke Duty Union + Wards Setup Union.
    Zolean (Cachexia)
    Leucetius
    Pagus
    Paris

    Now I don't plan on grinding BR up to 80 so Leucetius is out of the question. I will probably take him out and put Yuniver in his spot. I think this looks great on paper... but I never took the time to test it out back then. My PC was too sucky to play this game, triggering a fight took 1 minute of PC loadtimes.

    And also, if I want to use Jager / Glenys, I have to ditch the ultimate PC grind.

    I really don't want to do that, but I want to know if I can compensate by grinding up only a few levels (from 14 to 25) and then find a new spot to grind. The only problem is that I don't know at what BR I should stop. 20 to 40.. I've never used the Ultimate PC Grind, so I don't know @ which level to start and @ when to stop, and where to switch to afterwards.

    I guess this new Union Board will outperform my old one, right?

    ---
    I'm A Man of Principles, Damn Near Invincible
  • Feb 7, 2013 1:27 pm GMT
    Well I can't edit my post anymore, so here's my 2nd question.

    How do you go about with Weapon Upgrading? I think I kind of get the system, but I don't know when is a good time to go farm the items without gimping out the BR level. What's your strategy for effectively getting top-tier weapons? Do you wait until the endgame to do it? Right now I have the feeling that I'm gonna keep that for last...

    It's my file, but it's definitely your game. If I compiled all of your posts and made a FAQ out of it, you'd get a 5-star bro rating. Sorry if i'm asking you to babysit me: I think I get the gist of it all, so I have more opinion-pointed inquiries now I guess! I'm aware any set-up can pull through this game, but judging from my party and my question on weapon upgrades,if you're willing to give me your personal input, is there anything I can do to make my party better, stronger and faster?
    ---
    I'm A Man of Principles, Damn Near Invincible
  • Feb 10, 2013 8:48 pm GMT
    Never really bothered with Rear Assault unions because of the conditions required to trigger the command. Yuniver is a good sub for Leucetius, with the added advantage of already having Psi on hand. One suggestion: there's really no need to stick Psi units in only mystic unions. The morale commands aren't exclusive Item or Mystic commands, so they can be put anywhere. It also helps in case the Psi unit pulls up a morale art and everyone else fulfills Arcana requirements. Unless you're trying for Fatal Eclipse. I would also spread out Wards units since the support commands aren't type specific. And bunching up all the Wards units means that you can only help 2 unions at most unless you're approaching from the flank or rear. Don't like Wyngale as a union leader because his UP makes it difficult to get him to do what you want. He's still a good unit. Just a horrible leader. Everything else looks OK. Not the kind of setup I'd use though.

    You stop when you think you should stop. Units can always try to catch up once you've opened up the Ancient Ruins. It shouldn't take more than 10 BR to get them caught up almost completely, although I was in there since about BR30-something. From my last run, I used the Grind from about BR5 to BR19-ish? before heading to the Aqueducts, then again until about BR26 for the Bases because of getting Demi and knowing that a good chunk of my team required the quest "The Fated One" finished. Was using Mystic Seal for grinding. I would stop once some units start exceeding 80~100 in their primary attack stat and/or having difficulty getting a few ally KOs when engaging the Landworms (Glenys excluded because her AI sucks). So... about BR30~40? Depends on how comfortable you are taking down enemies with relatively low stats.

    If I'm not using the Grind, which is often because I happen to like Glenys and getting Emmy Hundred Flowers, then I would head over to Numor Mines and/or Flaumello Tower. They're harder to use than the Grind because of the lack of mass linking, but their BRs are higher. You're more likely to get the KOs required to lower BR EXP. Of course, playing without something to track that can be difficult, which is what I use TLR_EE for. A little bit extreme on the min-maxing at times, but eh. It's interesting tracking this sort of stuff.

    As a playthrough has taught me, you don't need to upgrade a single item on Normal to finish the game. Granted, it was an actual Low BR playthrough with the additional challenge of not using Mr. Diggs outside the one mandatory use... Very interesting playthrough on NicoDou. I'll give you the link if you're interested. I usually wait until I absolutely have to upgrade. Tends to be around major boss fights; Gates of Hell, Bases, The Fallen, Conqueror. Those are usually when I start mass upgrading. If I'm on NG+ and have enough materials, I would have crafted them what they need at the beginning, then stuffed them into the Mystic Seal formation to keep them from killing things too quickly.

    I have a bias towards screwing with morale, buffs and debuffs, throwing around IAs. Not efficient, but it's damn fun. I'd say that it's almost required for extreme low BR... I also like making Rush my support unit since he's the most flexible. I see no reason for him to be stuffed into a combat or mystic role when there are 17 others that can do that. He's perfect as a support unit because of his skill set and being able to tank with a L-sized Shield. Wyngale comes close, but he's a little trickier. It also means that the other 4 unions can be a little bit bigger.
    ---
    Now playing: Fire Emblem Kakusei, Borderlands
    Hoyt GMX 23", Hoyt Epic 32lbs, 8125, Carbon One 900
  • Feb 14, 2013 10:46 pm GMT
    sunzi, I'm extremely interested with the link. I've gotten to the point where I realize I would've preferred having different unions altogether: they can do massive damage, but I see how easily it could be optimizing this party before I reached BR40 at Undelwalt. I have my favorites, but I'm stuck grinding alot NOW, when I could've done that much earlier and gotten the results I want now and saving a lot of time in the same process. I end up with 18 units trained up, and not enough units for a good Whiteout I.E. Bet that playthrough includes fighting Bai Ze to save hours getting money from the Mr Digging, haha.

    I can't wait for my next playthrough. But I'm sure I'll learn a few things from the video before having to waste your time repeating yourself. xD
    ---
    I'm A Man of Principles, Damn Near Invincible
  • Feb 16, 2013 12:29 am GMT
    Link: http://www.nicovideo.jp/mylist/24065619
    Use a redirector or sign up to watch. Shouldn't be too hard since the site's in English now...

    Actually, the player recorded the key points of the playthrough. If there was a fight, it would be recorded. Never used Bai Ze or Mr. Diggs for money. Only whatever vendor trash from the treasure chests he opened.
    ---
    Now playing: Fire Emblem Kakusei, Borderlands
    Hoyt GMX 23", Hoyt Epic 32lbs, 8125, Carbon One 900
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