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EA is treating this like fast food

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  • Dec 27, 2012 11:28 am GMT
    This will be my last post. If you're an EA employee reading this and actually care about what you do then maybe pass it on to management with the small hope that they too will care. If you're a player then feel free to say/troll whatever you want, but just do so knowing that all I ever wanted was the same thing you wanted: a great Star Wars MMO, which we've been deprived of now for about nine years.

    My first question: how do you screw up a Star Wars MMO? Star Wars has such a rich story environment, I honestly don't understand why this keeps happening. It's almost like the people who design these Star Wars games don't really grasp what it is that makes an MMO fun. It's really just the little things that count. It doesn't cost $300 million to make a good MMO--it just takes a handful of true talent. It's an art, not a business, not a science, yet the industry is being destroyed by executives who treat these games as if they are cheeseburgers, when they should be viewing their product as what it is: fine art, much like Van Gogh paintings, many of which were only acclaimed posthumously.

    Do you think Van Gogh was sitting there thinking, "How can I increase my profit margin on this painting. Hmm, maybe a speck of blue here, red there?" No, he crafted his masterpieces with the sole mindset of making a quality product, trusting his instincts, not listening to the rabble or worrying about anything else, and what happened? Well, his work went on to sell for hundreds of millions of dollars (way more than the cost of developing this game). Of course, Van Gogh's work didn't sell like that until far after his death, but that's the thing about art, you don't always reap the rewards immediately. It might take some time for people to recognize how great your product is, but when they do, you will cash in.

    World of Warcraft started out with a fraction of the original subscribers this game had. Blizzard didn't panic, they kept plugging away, crafting their product as they saw fit. Like it or not, they created quite a masterpiece and years later they are still cashing in. EA, on the other hand, bailed on their own project before it even had a chance to be crafted into something great. Original developers were fired or quit, an obvious response to the lack of instant success, as subscribers were dropping. A cartel market was added to milk F2P and subscribers for more money, in an attempt to further cut production losses, and what should be a patch has now been labeled an expansion in order to cash in on the short term even more. Well, not every player is an idiot, and some of us can see through this sacrifice of quality for quarterly revenue.

    Imagine if half the time spent on this stupid cartel market was used to put Pazaak in game? One year later, we can't even sit down in cantinas, have a drink with some friends, and gamble a bit. The Las Vegas of Star Wars, Nar Shaada, goes completely unused for any interesting end-game. The cartel action should be happening there, but instead we get to click on a lame yellow icon in the top of the screen and get to flip through a magazine. Players complain about the lack of interesting end-game and instead of addressing that time is spent trying to figure out how to juice us for as much money as possible before everyone jumps ship. Space rails, broken/dead Ilum, boxed-in world zones, horrible non-class quests, no mini-games, no immersion at max-level, etc, etc. If EA would just focus on making a quality product then guess what, the money would come.

    It's just sickening that players have to endure this crap just to play the IP that they love. This game had potential. It still has potential, actually, but it's clear that EA is not willing to fully invest in developing that. To EA, this game is just a cheeseburger. The players want Van Gogh, but all we get is a value meal.
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    lol at --> http://boards.gamefaqs.com/gfaqs/user.php?=89123
  • Dec 27, 2012 12:05 pm GMT
    Another subscription suicide news letter saying the same stuff every other arm chair developer vents when they quit in a huff.
    He's not necessarily wrong, just wasting the internet posting it like this now.
    ---
    "I can't buy a pack of smokes without running into 9 guys you've ****ed!"
  • Dec 27, 2012 12:10 pm GMT
    McDonald's is a successful worldwide corporation worth billions. Van Gogh shot himself and died at the age of 37. His last words were "The sadness will last forever." Who do you think EA is going to try and emulate?

    Hint: "The sadness will last forever" does not inspire many stock investors.
    ---
    Its not that I'm lazy, its that I just don't care.
  • Dec 27, 2012 12:18 pm GMT
    I think EA is run by a bunch of guys who don't even play video games. That's why they do such stupid things
  • Dec 27, 2012 12:31 pm GMT
    From: Zikten | #004
    I think EA is run by a bunch of guys who don't even play video games. That's why they do such stupid things

    That's probably an unfortunately accurate guess. : \
    But it may also be that doing stuff that looks stupid to some gamers actually make them more money than if they made games we few here on GameFAQs liked. Activision makes the same game every year, charges $15 for its map packs and drops the price at least twice a slowly as any other major brand ... but they've made bank on it every year.
    A more unfortunate guess is that making good games isn't the most profitable way to make them.
    ---
    "I can't buy a pack of smokes without running into 9 guys you've ****ed!"
  • Dec 27, 2012 1:09 pm GMT
    ISDcaptain01 posted...
    EA, on the other hand, bailed on their own project before it even had a chance to be crafted into something great. Original developers were fired or quit, an obvious response to the lack of instant success, as subscribers were dropping. A cartel market was added to milk F2P and subscribers for more money, in an attempt to further cut production losses.



    For people not wanting to read a book, thats the bulk of it. It is more true than most of the things posted. It is like someone at EA thought, maybe we can get more subscribers by adding less content, and firing a bunch of people. Downsizing the staff and the budget on the game is sure to mmake us more money." The game had a lot of potential at the start, contrary to what people were saying. Many of us played with belief that things would change, but EA wasn't seeing the profits it wanted; therefore, people were fired, instead of investing money in changes that could have made things better, they cut corners and shrunk the team to the bare requirements to get the game running. Now, everything that is added is just something to make money. It sucks. The game is a decent game, and if EA had any idea of what they were doing, then they would back the game as it should be. Pour the money into it, until they see the profits they want.

    In short, EA sees the game as a failure(as does everyone else), and has cut their losses. The game is nothing but a cash cow now, and any thing added is just a means to make money.
    ---
    Common sense has changed as the common person's sense is idiotic; therefore, I am happy to say I am not common, and I have no common sense.
  • Dec 27, 2012 5:36 pm GMT
    "for about nine years."

    I don't understand what this even means...what are you getting this figure? The 9 years since SWG release date? If anything you should have said 15+ years and just figured in the time since MMO's have been in existance.

    Your logic fails when you consider the plethora of other IP's that have NEVER had an MMO
    ---
    Mitt Romney for the Quorum of the Twelve!
  • Dec 27, 2012 5:40 pm GMT
    "My first question: how do you screw up a Star Wars MMO? Star Wars has such a rich story environment, I honestly don't understand why this keeps happening. It's almost like the people who design these Star Wars games don't really grasp what it is that makes an MMO fun. It's really just the little things that count. It doesn't cost $300 million to make a good MMO--it just takes a handful of true talent. It's an art, not a business, not a science, yet the industry is being destroyed by executives who treat these games as if they are cheeseburgers, when they should be viewing their product as what it is: fine art, much like Van Gogh paintings, many of which were only acclaimed posthumously."

    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.296043-Shigeru-Miyamoto-views-games-as-products-not-art

    Wake up call for you. No one, except perhaps the graphics designers, consider games art. Even the market itself refuses to consider games art as movies or books are. The fact is, it is the publishers job (the person paying the artist) to sell as many games (or cheeseburgers) as possible.
    ---
    Mitt Romney for the Quorum of the Twelve!
  • Dec 27, 2012 5:43 pm GMT
    "Do you think Van Gogh was sitting there thinking, "How can I increase my profit margin on this painting. Hmm, maybe a speck of blue here, red there?" No, he crafted his masterpieces with the sole mindset of making a quality product, trusting his instincts, not listening to the rabble or worrying about anything else, and what happened? Well, his work went on to sell for hundreds of millions of dollars (way more than the cost of developing this game). Of course, Van Gogh's work didn't sell like that until far after his death, but that's the thing about art, you don't always reap the rewards immediately. It might take some time for people to recognize how great your product is, but when they do, you will cash in."

    Again this just doesn't apply the same way. Van Gogh's art was not famous for decades; games do NOT age the same was as paintings or other forms of art: graphics systems, controls, consoles are always changing, and 6 months to 1 year after releasing a product it will begin to quickly show it's age. The key to making a profit in this industry is pre orders and day 1 sales.

    If Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was to be released on wii u with the same graphics (and it had never been released on N64), people wouldn't even give it the time of day, because it's ancient at this point (relative to other new releases.)
    ---
    Mitt Romney for the Quorum of the Twelve!
  • Dec 27, 2012 6:23 pm GMT
    Lol silly, e.a doesn't care about there customers

    E.a is just a corp they don't acually make the games they just buy out the studios that do.
    Look at madden, ultima, mass effect, all studios that were bought by e.a they have no in house developers only developers that were bought out
    I think e.a is acually just a branch of genral motors (could be wrong) and there a bunch of profiteers just looking for $
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    Help bring back Republic Commando! http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/914938-star-wars-republic-commando/57002133
  • Dec 27, 2012 9:30 pm GMT
    The people picking apart the semantics of the metaphor are missing the underlying point. TC is saying that EA has jumped ship too soon, given up on SWtOR, and are trying to make a quick buck. He's entirely right that WoW took a long time to develop into the monster success it is. Sure, it got a strong start and grew more and more rapidly, but Blizzard was always devoted to adding new content and making the game more accessible the entire time.

    People now expect those kinds of content patches, so even giving them what they're used to with WoW won't necessarily inspire as much as it used to. Sadly, EA/Bioware have been pretty hard handed about keeping the game relatively the same as when it initially launched and failed to address why so many people abandoned ship.

    Instead of addressing the core issues, EA/Bioware have instead placed a bandaid on the problem by transitioning the game into a F2P model, albeit a poorly conceived one. After $300 million, they should be willing to fork over a bit more and fix the real issues, but they just want to profit as much as they can on the small pool of remaining players.
    ---
    http://animerecap.blogspot.com/
  • Dec 27, 2012 9:45 pm GMT
    aMonsoone posted...


    If Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time was to be released on wii u with the same graphics (and it had never been released on N64), people wouldn't even give it the time of day, because it's ancient at this point (relative to other new releases.)


    I don't really agree with this. Minecraft looks like crap yet makes bank left and right.

    A good game is a good game, period. It might do better or worse depending on when it is released (as timing does play a part in a games success) but at the end of the day, if something is well done it gets noticed.


    As for the other titles mentioned in this thread like COD and Madden - those games make their money off of the people who own nothing but COD and Madden. Those people aren't gamers, they are just people who play games.

    The problem is, those people outnumber the gamers by a far margin, and the suits in charge of these companies don't understand how to make games for anyone else. They see that they release essentially the same game annually and make a ton of money, so they try to replicate that in other titles. To no ones surprise, it fails, yet they simply cannot understand why that doesn't work for other genres.

    Until the people in charge of these companies understand the differences in their customer base things won't change.
  • Dec 27, 2012 11:41 pm GMT
    Could I get a number 6 please with a few honey roasted barbeque packets?

    Oh and sweet tea.
    ---
    I'll be honest: 2% milk is delicious and the chinese can't be trusted.
  • Dec 28, 2012 5:05 am GMT
    There is only one real solution: stop buying EA games.

    As long as people are willing to throw their money at them, why would they change their low quality products to higher grade ones?

    EA pushes out their games like Ikea furniture: it's usually missing some screws and bolts, but functions just well enough to fulfill it's purpose.

    What people want is quality furniture that is home delivered completely and allows comfortable seating/dining etc.
    And a lot of developers manage to deliver this.

    Problem with EA is that they charge the same price and market their product as if they are of the same high quality, while they are not even close.

    This is one of the reasons why many people dislike EA. (there's also the fact that they killed off many great studios and IPs http://i50.tinypic.com/xqjseo.jpg )

    Most games EA pushes out are worth maybe half of what they actually charge for them.
    ---
    PSN: El_Coon
  • Dec 28, 2012 6:27 am GMT
    From: mikejolik | #012
    I don't really agree with this. Minecraft looks like crap yet makes bank left and right.

    Yeah, but Minecraft is unique, a lot more unique than OoT. Its graphics are also "bad" on purpose, while OoT's look like they were supposed to be good 15 years ago.
    If Zelda wasn't the game we all played as kids, I doubt it'd have any more traction today than something like Darksiders.
    ---
    "I can't buy a pack of smokes without running into 9 guys you've ****ed!"
  • Dec 28, 2012 7:28 am GMT
    augerrya3 posted...
    I think e.a is acually just a branch of genral motors (could be wrong) and there a bunch of profiteers just looking for $




    You know what's f***ing hilarious?

    VIVENDI is owned by GE.

    craptivision is owned by VIVENDI.

    blizzturd is owned by craptivision.



    blizzturd ACTUALLY IS owned by GE.

    And that's why blizzturd's games have been going straight downwards since craptivision bought them out.




    It's just crazy that the travesties with EA caused you to paint out the exact scenario that ACTUALLY happened to blizzturd.
    ---
    There's no group of people more delusional than blizz fanboys. Including scientologists.
  • Dec 28, 2012 7:46 am GMT
    Mogan posted...
    From: mikejolik | #012
    I don't really agree with this. Minecraft looks like crap yet makes bank left and right.

    Yeah, but Minecraft is unique, a lot more unique than OoT. Its graphics are also "bad" on purpose, while OoT's look like they were supposed to be good 15 years ago.
    If Zelda wasn't the game we all played as kids, I doubt it'd have any more traction today than something like Darksiders.


    Yeah, I always try to apply the premise if said game didn't have a AAA name attached to it, would I buy it. That started right after FF12 where I realized how subpar it was.I gave Skyward Sword the benefit of the doubt but it again suffers from mediocrity. Actually, many of the recent Nintendo franchises particularly Mario have suffered from mediocrity yet still make bank because it's Mario. Thank God for Rayman Origins.
    ---
    Sammed - Prophecy of the Five
  • Dec 28, 2012 8:22 am GMT
    I am a self-employed small businessman, so I like to think of business like this:

    You should make the greatest product you can make, and try to make as much money as possibly from that great product.
    You should not make a subpar product and than spend a fortune marketing it to people who may not really want it that much just to get back quick returns.
    ---
    If SWTOR is the Titanic, than Guild Wars 2 is the Iceberg....
  • Dec 28, 2012 8:23 am GMT
    From: maxpowr3 | #016
    I gave Skyward Sword the benefit of the doubt but it again suffers from mediocrity. Actually, many of the recent Nintendo franchises particularly Mario have suffered from mediocrity yet still make bank because it's Mario.

    I didn't play OoT until after Twilight Princess came out, and I was not impressed with either. Wind Waker was the last Zelda game I thought was good, but I haven't played Skyward Sword since I keep hearing it's just more of the same.

    Both Zelda and Mario are at a point where I don't think I'll ever be interested in playing another one unless they change the formula. I had a computer when I was little, but had to buy my own consoles, so I didn't get a dedicated video game system until the N64, and by that point I was into other games than Nintendo's. Maybe if I had that nostalgia for the Zelda and Mario series I'd be a bigger Nintendo fan, but I don't.
    ---
    "I can't buy a pack of smokes without running into 9 guys you've ****ed!"
  • Dec 28, 2012 11:37 am GMT
    Any smart businessman knows the product sells itself. Quality product + targeted marketing and the money rolls in. Always. Crap is still crap, even if you spend 300 million dressing it up, it's still crap. Which is the case here, but hey people these days will defend crap with their lives just look around here. So it's no wonder corporations are going to keep slinging the same poo all over you kids. You embrace mediocrity by supporting it and that is the way it's going to keep going. Through no fault but your own.
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