Stop saying it's not pay to win, because it is.

#1 Posted by TheOnlyConan (5 posts) -

I like the game and plan on buying it, but it is pay to win. If two people play the same amount of time and one of those people buys credits with real money, that person has the advantage. That is the very idea of pay to win. You get an advantage over someone else by paying real money. Now, is it as bad as a game that you can buy a weapon that only real world money can buy and that is much stronger than anything else in the game? No it is not. But hardly any game goes that far. 

The only way it would not be pay to win would be if everything you bought was cosmetic only (like GW2 or WOW). That is not the case. You can buy in game money that can buy you anything you want.

#2 Posted by invictuslemming (301 posts) -

Outside of the initial crowd funding campaign, I don't see anywhere where they have mentioned you can buy ingame credits... I have a feeling the 10k or 50k worth of credits people got from the crowdfunding will get them very far at all in the actual game.  Atleast not to a point where they would gain an unfair advantage over someone else.

Maybe you can, but considering the game isn't much more than a concept at the moment its hard to tell what you'll be able to get from paying real money.

#3 Posted by TheOnlyConan (5 posts) -

"But the cardinal rule regarding in-game purchases is: Players who spend money purchasing in-game credits will have no advantage over players who spend time!"


Yes, he says you can buy credits. They are trying to say that you will have no advantage over someone that plays more hours than you do. So my point still stands. If two people play the same amount of time, one can spend real money and get an advantage. He would pay to win.

#4 Posted by alphatango1 (3778 posts) -

Stop saying its 'pay to win' and spouting absolute garbage, You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

#5 Posted by TheOnlyConan (5 posts) -

You give no facts. How am I wrong? Just because they do not allow you buy an uber weapon that no one can get in game, does not exclude it from being pay to win. Hardly any game does that, so if that is the only way it is pay to win, then your definition is way off.

It is very clearly stated on their website. Again, you give no facts and just sound like a fanboy.

#6 Posted by xInfinity (48 posts) -
I know I'm a little late to this comment party but for the benefit of anyone else that decides to look in on this in the future... By definition, 'pay to win' is something that allows you to buy something in the game with real-world currency, and that's the only way you can get it. Like the games that have you purchase special 'tokens' with your money, and then you can use those tokens to buy things like experience boosters and equipment that you can't get through normal, hard work. So two things can be understood from that: 1.) As has been stated multiple times, everything in game you can buy with real-world currency can also be purchased by in-game credits, so there is no exclusions like many other games have. On top of that, you can buy in game credits with real world money, though Mr. Roberts has more than once stated that he believes they will put a hard cap on just how much you can buy. They are a business so they don't want to turn away potential profit, but at the same time they don't want to make it hard for those who can't afford to. 2.) The game is twitch-based. Also known as skill. Even with super gear, if you still suck at playing games, then you're still going to suck no matter what equipment your ship has. It's not like an RPG where you can just keep grinding to get better skills - spreadsheets and button mashing won't help you with a game like this. Of course, the game is still in pre-production, so griping about anything now is a little like putting the cart before the horse. Let's take a deep breath and wait until Nov/Dec, then we'll see, k?
#7 Posted by TheOnlyConan (5 posts) -

"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."

So your definition is off. And yes, it is a long way off until release. But since it is clearly stated on their website, that is what I will go off of. Until they officially change it. Skill does have something to do with it, but it does not change that paying real cash will give you an advantage over someone that has played the same amount of time.

#8 Posted by xInfinity (48 posts) -

If you really don't want to play on the live servers with everyone else because of what you believe is pay to win, then don't. No one is forcing you. What I see as pay to win and what you see are likely different.

You'll still get a full 50 mission campaign and can play on private servers if you wish. That just means I won't "see you in the 'verse", as it were.

#9 Posted by Zhyr_ (3 posts) -

"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."

So your definition is off. And yes, it is a long way off until release. But since it is clearly stated on their website, that is what I will go off of. Until they officially change it. Skill does have something to do with it, but it does not change that paying real cash will give you an advantage over someone that has played the same amount of time.

TheOnlyConan

 

XP potions or whatever aren't classed as pay to win. That's classed as convience and hence not pay to win. Buying a weapon with real money that you can also buy with in game currency is also classed as convience.
Warframe and neverwinter are other examples of free to play.

World of Tanks is Pay to win where you have to  (and can only) buy a better class of ammo with real money to be competitive. 

I'm unsure of any other pay to win games off the top of my head.

 

If you don't agree with it then that's your choice and no one is forcing you to play the game. 

#10 Posted by robokill (1064 posts) -

[QUOTE="TheOnlyConan"]

"Games that let you buy better gear or allow you to make better items then everyone else at a faster rate and then makes the game largely unbalanced even for people who have skill in the game without paying."

So your definition is off. And yes, it is a long way off until release. But since it is clearly stated on their website, that is what I will go off of. Until they officially change it. Skill does have something to do with it, but it does not change that paying real cash will give you an advantage over someone that has played the same amount of time.

Zhyr_

 

XP potions or whatever aren't classed as pay to win. That's classed as convience and hence not pay to win. Buying a weapon with real money that you can also buy with in game currency is also classed as convience.
Warframe and neverwinter are other examples of free to play.

World of Tanks is Pay to win where you have to  (and can only) buy a better class of ammo with real money to be competitive. 

I'm unsure of any other pay to win games off the top of my head.

 

If you don't agree with it then that's your choice and no one is forcing you to play the game. 

star conflict is also p2w
#11 Posted by coorta (11 posts) -

@TheOnlyConan: Currently there is a total credit limit of 150k, with a 25k per day limit which is about $25 per day allowed to be spent. So yes you can buy credits but there is a limit, and because we do not know what earning credits will be like in game, we cannot be sure if we can even get that amount in a short time or not. So you could spend that money to buy credits, but earn twice as much in game in less than an hour. For reference you may want to have a read of this, since you have been asking for proof.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/faq/united-earth-credits

#12 Edited by Blackcat2000 (19 posts) -

What does a limit on buying currency keep it from being Pay-to-Win?

You're buying currency.

You have not played through the game to achieve the currency. You have not subjected yourself to the chance of deaths, ganks, and the being able to fail at acquiring the currency through things like making a bad trade. You have opened your wallet and you have advanced in acquisition of an in game asset due to the wallet. You have paid to win at moving through the title without consequence even if it for a small amount of the title.

This applies to the ship purchases as well. CIG could have made it so that you get blueprints to build a specific ship instead of just handing it to you. They could have still had the hangar module so you could see your purchase, but then make it so you have to actually play through the game and make the ship.

Stop this nonsense about not being pay to win. Boosters, buying items, temp buff...etc. You're paying to win. You have not achieved the items through playing the game. They were handed to you because of cash. It's a simple binary question. Was this advantage bought with cash? YES/NO. It doesn't matter that every developer is doing it. It's still paying to skip ahead without subjecting yourself to playing the game. This instant gratification for cash because people don't want to put time is getting ridiculous.

#13 Edited by Old_Gooseberry (3752 posts) -

if you can spend more real life money than other people to gain an advantage. That is pay to win.

Why are they so greedy, didn't people already give them like 40 million dollars to make this game? they want more?

#14 Edited by sondun2001 (1 posts) -

The only reason why I wouldn't necessarily call it "pay to win" is because they don't have a premium currency in which items can only be purchased with. Someone who pays, may not be able to invest the time to grind to get the ship they want, so they drop some $$ and can start flying. Another person may choose to put in the work, and get the same ship. The same ship and config would be available to both, and the one who paid $$ for it won't be at an advantage. Time = Money.

It's only an advantage to the paying customer when it is compared to a day 1 non paying. This is an awesome way to level out the playing field between those who can play 6+ hours a day, vs those like me who can only play an hour the most. If they got rid of the ability to purchase credits, you could say it's not fair that someone who plays 8 hours a day is at an advantage to those who only play 1 hour.

For me it's pay to catch up.

#15 Posted by davidsworld3 (3032 posts) -

YOu have to pay a huge amount just to play the game though you dont get a free starter ship to start earning in game currency so it's the biggest pay 2 win game I know of.

It's why I will never buy this, plus I dont see anything impressive other than shiny graphics wheres the content? Where are the impressive damage effects or explosions that make you go damn that was a cool kill.

I'll stick with my mwo and other retail games that dont force you to spend a butt load of money just to try the game out.

F this game.

#16 Posted by xInfinity (48 posts) -

@davidsworld3 said:

YOu have to pay a huge amount just to play the game though you dont get a free starter ship to start earning in game currency so it's the biggest pay 2 win game I know of.

It's why I will never buy this, plus I dont see anything impressive other than shiny graphics wheres the content? Where are the impressive damage effects or explosions that make you go damn that was a cool kill.

I'll stick with my mwo and other retail games that dont force you to spend a butt load of money just to try the game out.

F this game.

It's so easy to tell when someone has done absolutely no research, but like to talk anyway.

1. If you don't want to play right now you can get a 'free' starter ship in the basic package for $40. The Aurora. Which you can switch out for a Mustang, a more combat oriented version starter ship, once it's available. If you want to play NOW, it costs $45.

2. Uhm. There are tons of videos on Youtube already, and plenty of people playing on twitch. As for content, the game has been in development for not even 2 years yet. Do you hate on other developers/publishers like Blizzard, Ubisoft, Bethesda, etc... that keep you in the dark about the games for 4 years or longer while they are actually making them, and only letting you know they exist 6 months to a year before they actually release?

3. Again, refer to my first point.

For those who say this is 'pay-to-win', what exactly are you winning? What is this supposed 'advantage'? It's an open-world sandbox game. What constitutes 'winning' can literally be different for every single person. They've already determined that they will limit the amount of in game currency you can buy, I wouldn't be surprised if they limited it even further based on how long you play the game.

Well, whatever. Some people will get their knickers in a twist on principal alone, regardless of how right or wrong they may actually be. Just remember that if you feel like playing alone there will be private servers you can create and play with those you want to. It also has a 50 mission single player or co-op campaign. So it's not like your potential $40 to buy the game now would be wasted.