DC Universe Online architects explore the dark side

GDC Austin 2009: Marv Wolfman and Sony Online Entertainment creative directors get philosophical about the challenges of designing an MMOG for villains as well as heroes.

Who Was There: Longtime DC Comics author Marv Wolfman appeared alongside Sony Online Entertainment creative directors Jens Andersen and Christopher Cao. All three are collaborating on the upcoming DC Universe Online massively multiplayer online role-playing game and came together to discuss the role of heroes and villains in the title.

What They Talked About: Right off the bat, Cao asked Wolfman why comics are so frequently told from the hero's point of view. Wolfman explained that a large part of it was due to the Comics Code Authority, an oversight board comic book publishers had to work under for decades. The CCA mandated that villains never succeed, as well as wind up losing unequivocally at the end of every story, which tied writers' hands when it came to depicting them.

The CCA oversight was so heavy-handed that Wolfman actually had problems with it when he started writing. Before writers were given proper credit in the books, a fellow writer for DC's House of Mystery credited Wolfman's contribution on an issue by having a character say, "The following story was told to me by a wandering Wolfman." The CCA actually forbade werewolves in comic books at the time and took exception to that remark in the issue. If the publisher wanted to leave it in, Wolfman explained, it had to specifically issue a credit saying the story was written by Marv Wolfman, a practice that quickly led to comic creators getting regular credit for their work in every issue.

Back on the topic of games, Wolfman said he's run into challenges writing for villains in DC Universe Online, partly because he was so rarely allowed to in the days of the CCA. However, he said people don't necessarily want to see villains lose every time out, and audiences really enjoy the conflict that comes from characters in games, specifically good versus evil. He also said that he enjoyed character-less (or character-light) games like Portal and Myst.

Wolfman also called out Kratos from the God of War series as a fascinating character, though not necessarily as a hero or a villain. He kills everything that gets in his way, but the audience feels for him because he is avenging his family. (Wolfman should be partial to Kratos, as he is currently writing the God of War comic.)

Another challenge Cao said the team faced was what he called the question of, "How do I beat up Robin?" What does it mean to raid the batcave or defeat Superman? Wolfman said it's perfectly acceptable to include those sorts of setbacks for the heroes because heroes need to be defeated. Superman isn't as interesting as Robin, Wolfman said, because he's invulnerable. A character isn't heroic unless he suffers defeat and then rises from that defeat in order to triumph over evil, Wolfman explained. That problem is also one of the more interesting aspects of writing for an MMOG game, Wolfman said, as there's no guarantee the good guys will win.

Rising from defeat is just part of the hero's journey that Cao said the developers have been trying to instill in DC Universe Online. He added that players will be given the experience of going from a Robin-like character and growing into their own, like Nightwing, approaching a status on par with Batman.

Anderson has a history in single-player development, and he said the need to design the game for both heroes and villains has been a new twist for him as well. The need to think about what motivates characters, like Lex Luthor, has Anderson finding himself sympathizing more with their motivations. As he said, Luthor doesn't think of himself as evil.

Another shift that Wolfman has had to make is to focus on the needs of the player instead of the familiar DC Comics characters. Whereas the best parts of comics typically follow the big-name protagonists, Wolfman has found himself writing scenarios where players team up with these characters, ignore them, or even go against them for their own interests.

"It's about the player, not the superheroes," Wolfman said. "I really don't care if Superman has a good time in the game."

Another topic touched on was how the developers have tweaked the standard comic formula. Whereas normally it's the villains that instigate problems and superheroes that come in to clean up the mess, the developers quickly found out that it wasn't very fun for players to sit around waiting for villains to do something before springing to action. Cao didn't explain fully how they planned to address that issue in DC Universe Online, but he did say part of the solution was to add a third faction, one of simple amoral monsters that either side could beat up on.

Wolfman isn't in Austin just for the conference. The Los Angeles-based writer is also checking in this week with the development team at Sony Online Entertainment's Austin studio. A number of times throughout the session, Wolfman bemoaned having to work offsite from the developers, a complaint that recalled a Tuesday session with Evan Skolnick of Vicarious Visions. In that session, the lead writer on Marvel: Ultimate Alliance 2 explained how the development process benefited from having everyone in the same place.

Quote: "A policeman doesn't go out and beat up people who have not committed a crime...technically."--Wolfman explaining why superheroes are often reactive, waiting for something to go wrong before springing to action instead of imposing their will on the world.

Takeaway: Writing for DC Universe Online is vastly different from what the developers have done before, and dealing with villains is vastly different from dealing with heroes. While the panelists acknowledged that novelty provides plenty of challenges, they also were excited about the ways they were dealing with those obstacles.

29 Comments

  • DarkBiegus

    Posted Sep 24, 2009 2:35 pm PT

    The game looks awesome. But what sells it for me is that their are average everyday npcs to either attack or protect. Not to mentioin battling doomsday. A definite must buy for me.

  • ShootingPwnage

    Posted Sep 24, 2009 2:27 am PT

    ive seen the online gameplay and its pretty good, getting it for sure

    the aspect of running into villains and heroes and fighting them is pretty appealing to me

  • lmcalack

    Posted Sep 22, 2009 9:14 am PT

    true that buzzguy

  • buzzguy

    Posted Sep 22, 2009 8:10 am PT

    Maybe worth buying a PS3 slim for...

  • dan-rofl-copter

    Posted Sep 22, 2009 7:58 am PT

    I am quite interested in this game but I am so hyped for starwars

  • cloud_kai

    Posted Sep 19, 2009 7:22 pm PT

    @BalramRules

    you definitely have not heard of Star Wars: The Old Republic have you?

    DC Online seems like a great game but i think SW:TOR tops it

  • BalramRules

    Posted Sep 18, 2009 11:29 am PT

    MOST ANTICIPATED GAME OF EARLY 2010!!!!
    For 2009 (late) is UC2, 2010 (late) is ModNation Racers = )
    I only get 4 games a year from my spare salary and those are defo mine!
    I know that DCUO may be an annual payment, thats why I drained it from 4 games a year to 2 = )

  • chikahiro94

    Posted Sep 18, 2009 10:16 am PT

    I'm looking forward to this - DCUO gets a little more interesting every time I read about it.

    @DiscGuru101
    Since DCUO will tap into the console market though the PS3, that helps them a lot. If CO ever gets their 360 version out, they're good too. COH is on Windows and Mac. Marvel is likely aimed at a younger audiance (if I remember the shift correctly), so they've all got a plan at least. I think there certainly is room provided they're smart with their budgeting and income requirements (how much money they need to run, how much to be profitable, etc).

    CO is wildly different than COH, even though they have a lot in common. DCUO looks to be quite different as well. Its going to be a personal taste issue amongst gamers, that's for sure.

  • DiscGuru101

    Posted Sep 18, 2009 1:44 am PT

    I also want to add, after closely looking at the screen shots, the graphics for this game are looking extremely good...

  • DiscGuru101

    Posted Sep 18, 2009 12:35 am PT

    @ craggylotus: lol - I do see your point. But something tells me, the market won't support 4 comic book MMO's at once. Goblins and Elves stem from folklore hundreds of years old... Something about them is just more universal.

  • craggylotus

    Posted Sep 17, 2009 2:00 pm PT

    DiscGuru101: "Odd that super hero MMO's are getting saturated in the market."

    Yeah, I can see how 3 or 4 games with capes and spandex is saturating a market with 10? 20? more? games with orcs and goblins and elves. Really?

  • beekayjay

    Posted Sep 17, 2009 11:30 am PT

    Whats the point of a superhero MMO when EVERYONE is a super powered being?? There's no baseline to compare to so that the player FEELS powerful. No civilian NPCs, nothing....everyone has powers and its just one big non stop fight fest. Meh.

  • Khalathwyr

    Posted Sep 17, 2009 9:49 am PT

    Oh my, Christopher Cao. I'm seriously praying for your guys that hold any interest in this. Pray to whoever you may worship that the game is launched 100% the way you want. Also be 100% flexible if, after a year or two, they (SOE) decide to 100% change the gameplay. If it happens, don't complain on the forms else Cao will have one of his notorious "have a cow" fits and tell you how you posting on the boards aren't but a drop in the bucket of the subscription base and your opinions really don't matter.

    Yeah, it really was/is like that. And I'm not trying to tell anyone not to play. Just giving you some story SOE won't so that you can't say you weren't warned if it happens.

  • DiscGuru101

    Posted Sep 16, 2009 8:31 pm PT

    With a few exceptions, I have always leaned towards Marvel super heroes. I will be surprised if this game obtains the following of CoH/CoV. Odd that super hero MMO's are getting saturated in the market.

  • bigmack_20_20

    Posted Sep 16, 2009 7:25 pm PT

    i would like to see some footage of the game or hear something like a release date features anything! This game is shrouded in mystery it's driving me insane

  • jcopp72

    Posted Sep 16, 2009 6:41 pm PT

    when do we get a demo of this game?

  • VexedLucifer

    Posted Sep 16, 2009 4:54 pm PT

    The Comedian. That is all.

  • brian_13un

    Posted Sep 16, 2009 4:33 pm PT

    Great hope so ^_^

  • Flat_Line_____

    Posted Sep 16, 2009 4:13 pm PT

    I wonder if this game will have live events like The Matrix Online did, Or if they will have actual humans playing main character roles from time to time on the servers. Those were a couple of things that actually made MxO unique and fun.

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