As far as im concerned, as long as the games story is compelling, as long as the violence and blood and gore makes the game more fun FOR ME. then i dont care about anything else. Well price is suppose. I would play a version of manhunt where i killed innocents if it was a tight story, for sure. Maybe crossing the boundaries of insanity, like the suffering did. Its all about levels of comfort. Im comfortable with any level of gore. If there was a rape act in the game (hopefully NOT seen as in that movie hills have eyes, that made ME feel sick.) and it played part of the story like rape has done in MANY books and movies, then i think it would be a valuable addition to the game. Its all about levels of comfort. If you like good story then nothing else should matter!

then again theres an implicit value in mindless violence. Sometimes after work, i love to just shoot me some Chimera. Or blow away some vegas looting terrorists. It would be even more fun if i could play manhunt after work, then go for a little run, would probably relieve a ton of stress. Anyway. Thats just me.

:/

[QUOTE="nopalversion"]When I was little, I almost killed myself flying off a balcony pretending to be Superman. Playing games has never made me want to kill anyone. If anything, it lets me vent myself in a way that other hobbies can't so that I can keep on being relatively healthy on a mental level.Black_Knight_00

That must have been quite a trauma. Glad you survived.

Yeah that sucks.

I agree about forum posting, it can lead to plenty of insinuation and misinterpretation.

My only thing is i like what i like and i really just didnt like the inference that liking something like that is wrong. I mean hell maybe in thirty years ill look back and think, wow, i shoulda laid off the violent games, but for the time being, i enjoy violence in my games, and accurate violence at that. I think for allot of it its simply a way to vent undercurrents of emotions. Regardless, I personally appreciate the devs who make violent games, if only because I find amusement from them.

And yeah I DO like killing people, in Manhunt of course, It was shocking and new, and really exhillerating! I would never kill anyone, but it IS fun to play out in a game, for ME that is.

Whether kids should be able to get their hands on violent games is another matter entirely. I dont profess to know the level of protection thats afforded by the retail outlets in the States. I am 18+ so i really dont even think about it. I can imagine that theres little anyone can do about it in the end. I mean anyone with internet can get any game for free with something like a torrent client. Its down to the parents really. Anyway. I say that we should worry less about the content and more about the control of the distribution/education of parents.

@ confusedzone

i think largely the reasont hose games are considered childrens games now, is simply cuz those who grew up with those games, are older... its got less to do with a shift in the market and more a shift in the demographics... people think they are childrens games, simply because they played them as children... thats pretty much it..

"Woah woah, dont get mad now. There's no need."

im not mad, im making my point, for which, there is a need.

"To answer in order:"

- "movies and games are actually quite different. The gap is interactivity. It's the difference between 3rd and 1st person: 'him' and 'I'."

ok so what are you telling me here... Games are interactive, movies are not... and pray tell how this influences the actual mechanics of the drama that BOTH of these media portray... Am i to believe that a game, somehow, hacks into my brain, makes me totally incapable of determining between reality and the pathetic virtual mock up i play in? Disregarding the whole, i dunno, photoREALISM in movies, Hostel anyone? Something about this point doesnt quite make it... that and the last bit about him and i, that just sort of insults doesnt it???

- "you talk a lot about banning this and that. Like you or I had the power or influence to ban anything. Read our posts carefully and you'll conclude we never spoke about banning anything."

Ok so when you say that people should stop making the games, your saying that rather than BAN them, you want people to just, STOP. Like you or i had the power blah blah blah? are you kidding? WE ARE THE CONSUMERS. NEVER FORGET IT. i mean you made me feel really, pessimistic when i read it... sort of depressing how people forget that nowadays...

- "17+ games already are illegal for underage kids, but the law is not respected in 99% of shops. Verify and believe."

so what? if its not respected then so what? I know, lets ban alcohol! then, people wouldnt be able to sell it to under- oh no wait, that doesnt work either, the americans tried and i dont think it worked too good... tssk, then again those things never really do...just look at the lucrative marijuanna market... hmm ok, i guess then the ONLY possible way around it, is to make the product actually impossible to make, then the little kids wont be able to buy it right? of course it means that the rest of us dont get the game... hmmm... that doesnt seem very good now does it? but i guess it makes sense... or no wait, it doesnt...

- "it is not us that are sick or are afraid of being so. The games we mentioned, and you apparently concur, are sick."

ok friend, so the inference you are making here is that if a game is 'Sick' what? It shouldnt be banned, just hope people dont make it anymore? what? im missing your point here! I did not say you were sick. I suppose Im supposed to be sick right? i mean if i like sick comics and sick games, im a sick person yes? it stands to reason doesnt it? ok, so if im a sick person, does that mean i shouldnt be allowed to express my sick thoughts? are you saying that your thoughts, your games your books your NON SICK stuff, is better than my SICK stuff? Just because you dont like sick stuff doesnt mean that said sick stuff is of lesser worth than your non sick stuff... do you understand where im coming from now? Im entitled to play whatever sick stuff i want. Your not being hurt, so why would you want people to stop making those games? If people said that they should stop making kiddie games in order to facilitate the markets progression to a more mature audience, would little kids be upset? hell yeah! if i want to play a game where i choke the hell out of some bloke with nothing but a plastic bag, i damn well will... I take offense when people start saying they want a certain kind of genre REMOVED (if not banned, maybe politely stopped, yaknow with a little note... please stop making mean games) especially when said 'genre' (if we suppose sick to be a genre.... :/) is one i actually LIKE, heaven forbid...

- "there's a huge difference between simple violence (MGS3) and brainless bloodshed (Carmageddon). I personally enjoy the first (in games only of course) and strongly dislike the latter."

so what? i dont care about what you like, this is about the virtues of 'sick' games, in fact its not even about that, its about how some people you dont know acutally enjoy those games and dont like the inference made that playing and enjoying said games is sick... THAT is insulting to said 'sick' persons and is entirely without just cause.

- "what the hell is wrong with kiddie games so that you want them dead and buried?"

never said i wanted them dead and buried so i guess i dont really know how to reply... err, could YOU tell me 'what the hell is wrong with kiddie games'?

- "if people really enjoy being sick, I'm awfully sorry for them. But I could name a few guys who don't enjoy it at all."

oh i love that. sorry for me? oh please friend dont bother, the last thing anyone wants is your pity... here, (pity) i give it to you tenfold, hows that? better? I suppose i would be one of those that you feel, so "awfully sorry for" eh? im touched... really i am i feel so much better knowing, that you feel "awfully sorry" for me...

Not that i should even say this, being that it totally destroys the objectivity of it all, but i want you to think about it, im a vegetarian have been my whole life, i am largely a pacifist. The reason im vegetarian is that i dont think that any being should be condemned to a life of suffering. Im not the guy who goes and pounds on the little kids down the street, nor am i the guy who shoots civilians in a warzone, nor am i the guy who goes and rapes a girl for the fun of it. I have shot a gun, i liked it, but im not stupid enough to renact the opening scenes from saving private ryan. I like sick games. So what. Dont feel sorry for me man. I really dont need it and find it incredibly insulting.

-Oh, I checked your homicidal maniac comic. I think I'll stick to spider-man.

"I feel awfully sorry for you."

woah woah woah now...

just because you dont like a bit of intense violence doesnt mean a damn thing...

If there werent games like these then youd practically be saying that games were duty bound to serve children and no one thereafter. Take a look around people! Sex drugs and violence are what people like in their media. Its in movies, why do people always have to draw some stupid distinction between videogames and movies, as if the two were somehow, doing different things, which i might remind you they are NOT!

I hate it when people go on, and on, and on, about things that are so SIMPLE!!!! its like the teen violence-videogame link... if you dont want them playing it, then do what you do for movies, MAKE IT ILLEGAL FOR THEM TO PLAY... dont BAN them... god....

You wanna know whats 'sick'? A world where people are so afraid of being 'sick' that they ban all the media which portrays humanities 'sick' side... Its really just people being weak in the end... Look, you dont like violence, i dont like chick flicks, how bout we ban the both of em and call it a tie?

seems like all everybody can concentrate on is what they think should be banned, or removed from games for the better of games as it is suggested. I cant see how strapping limitations onto the market will help it break free from 'kiddie land'....

If you want to know why people like sick games its pretty damn simple... people enjoy being sick... if they didnt, then sick games wouldnt be made, wouldnt be sold, and therefore wouldnt be discussed on boards like this...

If you want real violence check out JTHM, no its not some shady snuff clan, its a comic, its artwork.. and its absolutly great...

maybe we should ban that too..

:/

ok. Well first of all we live in an 11dimensional universe. There are things called branes, which are analogous to, like a shower curtain. That sounds odd but listen up:

so, in air, 4 dimensions (3 spatial 1 temporal) a drop of water is flying through the air, it exists in all of these dimensions. Then, WHAMMY. It slams into the shower curtain, which, is THREE dimensional (2 Spatial, 1 Temporal). Weve just gone down one dimension. This curtain is called a brane in physics. The air around it, is the BULK. ok so lets imagine that we live on the shower curtain. The raindrops are particles in the multiverse. Ok? got that? so all particles are like raindrops, sorry waterdrops, SAVE ONE. the particle representing gravity. Graviton. Ok so one of the raindrops goes through the curtain, lets say its a ghost drop or something (analogy is starting to shatter) so the erm ghost drop (graviton) can travel through the brane/curtain. We can measure gravity's effects from our brane. Therefore, say we used a point singularity (black hole), which is enough mass to break spacetime itself, we can measure the protusion of gravitons, and start to create a portrait of the multiverse, this is sort of like the devices on boats which map the bottom of the ocean. Well not exactly obviously but you get what i mean. Anyway why am i telling you this? well by this definition, the multiverse is a continuing entity. It splits/buds continually and we are in an infinitum of possible quantum states at any one point. Ever heard of a wave function? well thats quantum right there, its really interesting stuff and theres allot of books specifically dealing with an experiment which uses wave function collapse. Wave function is a measure of the probability of a particles state... anyway so technically, as far as I know, the universe has to be infinite. or as close to infinite as can be reasonably assumed to be equal to it.

I dont know if this works as an explanation. The analogy cant really exress the whole 11 dimensions, but there you go, i think its a pretty neat way to picture the bulk/brane thing.. incidentally, for those who are interested, its believed in string theory that strings which run between and through the branes are responsible for particle existence in the first place. Some of the 11 dimensions are infinitly large and infinitly small... like if you have a hose... its one dimensional for large things right. it has only length... but for an ant crawling on its surface, its 2 dimensional, and for a fly flying inside, its 3 dimensional... thats another way of imagining the whole thing i suppse... tesseracts and such are other, ways... anyway...

hand cramp...