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Turbine on spinning console MMORPGs

By Brendan Sinclair, GameSpotPosted Sep 18, 2009 12:50 pm PT

GDC Austin 2009: Dungeons & Dragons Online developer recaps challenges of bringing popular PC genre to the living room, why PS3 should be the lead SKU.

Who Was There: Turbine vice president of product development Craig Alexander talked about the lessons learned in the company's first year and a half of developing a massively multiplayer online role-playing game for consoles.

Console MMOGs are seen as a holy grail of sorts.

What They Talked About: Alexander began recapping the history of MMORPGs, noting the way they've changed in gameplay as well as fee structure. Some of the original massively multiplayer games like Shadows of Yserbius and the original AOL-based Neverwinter Nights were paid for on an hourly basis, but they soon turned to the monthly subscription fee common to Ultima Online, EverQuest, and Turbine's own Asheron's Call.

The common thread between all the games he mentioned was that they were all on the PC. However, with the PS3 and the Xbox 360, Alexander says consoles have finally achieved the basic requirements to support MMO games, from storage space to online communities.

Alexander said it took PC MMO games about 10 years to mature to the point where they are now dominant on the platform. Now MMOGs are at the point where they are responsible for almost all of the growth in the PC market, Alexander said.

Historically, Alexander said trends in the PC market are typically echoed in the console market three to four years later, from first-person shooters in the '90s to sports games before that. More recently, Alexander said the conventional wisdom was that online multiplayer games and user-interface-intensive games would never take off on consoles, though games like Halo and Oblivion are changing that perception. As a result, Turbine believes MMOGs are soon going to revolutionize the console space, just like they did with the PC.

The trip to consoles from PCs has proven transformative for many genres, Alexander said, though that's not the only potential advantage. Moving to consoles can also be beneficial, he noted, because they are designed to be a social entertainment experience instead of a solitary one, hardware standards are uniform, and the upside for a success is very high. Demand for console RPGs is also higher than ever, Alexander noted, with The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion selling though to roughly half of the Xbox 360's user base at the time of its early 2006 release.

Alexander thinks the success of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion proves there is a market for a console MMORPG.

While Turbine hasn't detailed its plans for its first console MMORPG, don't expect it to appear on the Wii. Alexander said Nintendo's platform just doesn't have the basic tools necessary to handle Turbine's needs.

"In many respects the [Wii] hardware resembles the previous generation more than the current one," he said.

Cross-platform gameplay is also a no-go for Turbine, Alexander said. While technically he said it would probably be fairly easy, the idea of dealing with each platform's online storefront currency integrated with a single cross-platform virtual-in-game currency would be "a nightmare."

Going into depth on the challenges of bringing MMORPGs to consoles, Alexander talked about financial hang-ups. For one, building a massively multiplayer infrastructure costs about $20 million on top of the game development itself, and that can be harder to recoup on consoles. And then once the technology is ready, Alexander said it can take three to five more years to actually build the MMORPG.

Alexander said it could be tempting to make the Xbox 360 the lead SKU when making a console MMO game, but he said it was better to go with the PS3 to start. He cautioned that the PS3 has a wealth of hardware constraints like the Blu-ray's slower access time, often less-friendly developer tools, and a different memory architecture. In all, Alexander said migrating a game from the PS3 to the Xbox 360 is far easier than doing it the other way around.

Getting back to the PC side of things, Alexander spoke about Dungeons & Dragons Online, and the surprising success of its recent switch to a free-to-play business model. Alexander said subscriptions have actually gone up since the free-to-play option was introduced, and healing potions have been flying off the shelves of the microtransaction-driven in-game store.

"It's a little too early to declare complete victory, but we're very happy," Alexander said.

CDungeons & Dragons Online's move to free-to-play has been successful.

He also added that he believes console players will react the same way to a hybrid subscription/free-to-play model, and it's something Turbine is actively pursuing. Developers need to minimize any friction to access of their games, and in the console space, Alexander said that means no subscription requirement.

However, he said that consoles don't have a history of online monetization like that, and some of the older billing platforms like Xbox Live might not have built-in support for some of the business models being considered. Another concern Alexander said MMORPG developers should have is that having to pay the manufacturers a hardware royalty on top of intellectual property royalties makes having a large user base more important.

Finally, Alexander covered some of the design challenges facing massively multiplayer games for consoles. The audience is different, as are the interfaces. However, he noted that USB keyboards and chat pad controller add-ons could help get around that issue. Turbine is also prototyping a "canned chat" option where players can select from an assortment of common in-game messages without the need for a keyboard.

Alexander feels that MMORPG interfaces on the PC are also too complex and generally unsuited for standard-definition TVs. However, he noted that's only a problem if the user interface is borrowed completely from the PC standard.

Quote: "In many respects, we're betting the company on it."--Alexander on Turbine's console MMORPG push, though he did insist Turbine was still committed to the PC business.

Takeaway: Whatever developers do, Alexander said under no circumstances should they just try to port their MMORPG to the console. Instead, they should consider taking their favorite console designs and add in massively multiplayer features with a handful of innovations. Bringing the genre to consoles has a number of substantial hurdles to clear, but Alexander is convinced they can be overcome, and whoever does that will enjoy tremendous success.

81 Comments

  • Warhammer212

    Posted Oct 26, 2009 2:58 pm PT

    They're destoying Tolkien's work ! god damn them, earning money off of someone else's idea

  • ayhokkuu

    Posted Oct 18, 2009 2:59 pm PT

    also, you can already play lotro on the ps3, through linux. that's what i do.

  • ayhokkuu

    Posted Oct 18, 2009 2:57 pm PT

    a couple things to say.

    first of all i would love to be able to play lotro with a controller, but that creates lots of problems. how would the user interface work? how could you fit controls that can barely work on a full keyboard on to a small hand-held controller? Final Fantasy Online brought online gaming to the teli, but somewhat unsuccessfully. it may have been a worthwhile investment, and many pc-players switched over, but they experienced the same problems i stated before. Also, I'd like to add that lotro would crash if it went to the 360. i think that the bulky controller just wouldn't feel right, and the system would lag like crazy! yes, xbox live is more reliable, but the 360 my friends, is not. people think that the 360's possibilities are endless, or to a point beyond what it is already accomplishing. but it is at it's max with 32 player war on cod! and risking major lag on an MMORPG could be horrendous. i think this is a risky, yet good move, but mosty likely fatal turn for turbine.

  • tegs

    Posted Oct 16, 2009 7:54 am PT

    Give me a keyboard mouse and Lotro on my PS3 ill be more than happy but a gamepad no thxs not in a game like WoW Lotro ect.
    Question is what will it be,a choice of gamepad or keayboard mouse.?
    May depend on game type i guess.

  • Plaidboy1

    Posted Sep 23, 2009 7:23 am PT

    I've been playing DDO since it went free because I've always wanted to try the game and now there was no reason not to. I'm really enjoying it. I've spent maybe $10.00 on getting a few things that help make the experience even better. So my point is that they would have had $0 from me if the game had a fee. With the "free" model, they got $10.00 out of me and I'm playing a game I enjoy for hardly any cost. Win-Win for us both. So microtransaction games sound bad at first but once you try them it's not a bad deal.

  • living_wmd_888

    Posted Sep 23, 2009 12:51 am PT

    One of the first things they need to do is ditch the old "click-whack-whack-whack" battle scheme that's been with us since Diablo. Make a true action RPG - one where you can dodge projectiles and spells by moving your @$$ out of the way.

    Secondly... leave the microtransaction garbage in South Korea.

  • zeniftan

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 6:46 pm PT

    I just don't know how I'd feel about paying for 12 months xbox live and also paying for stupid micro transactions that inevitably stop me from playing MMORPG's. (A hint to Alexander: Micro-transactions suck so much.)

  • hwman

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 10:44 am PT

    Unless you're the one ponying up all the cash for the microtransactions, it seems you would just be disadvantaged.

  • hwman

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 10:41 am PT

    Oh how i hate microtransactions.

    Just charge me the monthly fee and let me play the game.

  • BigDaddy973

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 9:59 am PT

    I cannot wait for the day that an MMORPG come to the console. Be it something like APB or something like WOW.

  • zaphod_b

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 9:14 am PT

    I would like to see more MMO's on consoles, but I'd rather pay a monthly subscription than have hundreds of micro-transactions on my debit/credit card. I suppose buying game currency in chunks could fix this problem. Anyway, keep them coming. The more game variety we have, the better.

  • Cabal23

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 9:02 am PT

    @Narutofan30
    I hope they aren't hogging the hooked on phonics.

  • lolPawnt

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 9:01 am PT

    I don't mind a monthly fee as long as I am getting my money's worth.

  • FoeCrusher

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 7:56 am PT

    I have tried DDO with a couple of friends and the free to play seems to have a lot of takers. It may help that MMO survive better than others. Certainly for a casual gamer like myself the $15 a month isnt worth the time I can put in.

  • wolvern28

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 6:18 am PT

    Companies are getting dull and stupid with the whole MMORPG crap, just do something round the base of what mercenaries 2 did but on a larger scale.

    We need a new genre of opt-in MMO type games with users being in control of their own game but at the same time being able to have others in their game effect scenarios of different missions without being anywhere near them. Finding a special item might end up changing the course of the storyline or even something big like having certian missions changing the story arc.

  • Narutofan30

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 3:13 am PT

    If we could just get one good MMORPG id be happy i want to paly MMORPGs but my computer hogged up by my family.

  • x_Xarion_x

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 2:57 am PT

    I played FFXI for over 4 years, first on PS2, then on 360. While the game now feels pretty outdated, at the time, it worked very well on console, and I honestly wondered how people played with a keyboard instead of a controller. That said, it's not like it can't be done, MMO's can be very successful on a console, it's nice to see Turbine showing an interest in this direction. I currently play LOTRO and know they are very capable of making fantastic games.

  • frank_78

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 12:36 am PT

    In my opinion, consoles already ruined PC gaming, so I really hope they'll keep their greasy hands out of MMORPG. Give me all the negative feeds you want, but I still think that games built with a PC in mind are far superior to dumbed down console flicks.

  • TrueIori

    Posted Sep 21, 2009 12:34 am PT

    Your a bit to late my dear old friend Square already beaten you to the punch , and the hybrid subscription/free-to-play model is not the best way to entice console players hell even pc players hate that model. If any one going to blow up MMO on console the best chance will be Arena net with guild war model ,best model IMO, just buy the game and your set not this you can play for free but if you want to whole experience you got to pony up more money, yeah that not going to win over people in the console world.

    Guild wars method is the best to win people over , but i still just rather play my MMO on my pc.

  • lhscouchmonster

    Posted Sep 20, 2009 9:14 pm PT

    @bodylotion

    its proabaly convience. money isnt the only issue. i have the money to buy a new computer but i dont want a desktop hanging around my apartment and i dont want to tie the desktop up to my tv. I would rather sit my ass on the couch infront of my tv and just play on my ps3. its simple, its quick, and its easy. $$ does come in to play though. i don't want to buy a desktop just to game if i don't have to. Laptops are convenient but not very practical when in comes to gaming. With laptops so cheap, the majority are not buying desktops - Wikipedia even agrees with that statement http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laptop

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