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FE13 proves that this game was ruined by ...
FE13 proves that this game was ruined by Miyamoto and that IS is a good company.
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- Feb 3, 2013 3:24 pm GMTSpunkySix posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
SpunkySix posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
Why do people keep bringing up miyamoto when it comes to NSMB?
He wasn't in charge of those developement teams.
He's still a hypocrite because he allows his characters to be used in samey platformers over and over, but complains that this game felt like a "port". He could have said something to the NSMB team if he wanted to, he's Miyamoto for Toad's sake. But no, THIS is the series he arbitrarily decided needed big changes.
Of course he was going to make a comment about this game, he was in charge of the development team, not the NSMB teams. If he had any say on the NSMB games (which he doesn't) than I would imagine he would make a few changes.
So the creator of Mario has absolutely no say in the creation of main series Mario games? I call bull. The man is insanely influential and actually caused NSMBW to not have the story it was going to, so he's already shown that he CAN change those games. He's being a hypocrite in not doing so, ESPECIALLY with 2, where he had the design team change how Mario used the gold block, but was totally okay with nearly every boss being recycled and having no new world themes.
Well technically NSMB isn't the main mario series, its just a bunch of games designed to be throwbacks to older Mario games, the current Main series are the 3D ones.
And yes, believe it or not, while Miyamoto is the creator of Mario, he is not the one who owns it and as such does not have a say in everything that happens to it.
And lets not forget the fact that Miyamoto is an extremely busy man, he is always involved in several projects at once, not all of them Mario related.
And since when was Super Mario bros wii going to have a plot? I haven't found anything that suggests that it was originally going to have a plot of some kind that Miyamoto apparently convinced them to ditch.
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Thank you for taking the time to read this sig.
This sig loves you. - Feb 3, 2013 4:22 pm GMTGloryChaos posted...
In this topic: The director apparently didn't AGREE with Miyamoto about no story in the Iwata Asks and one man makes a whole game by himself.
In this post: Miyamoto is not insanely influential and does not have enough respect to change people's minds, and also he does not have responsibility as the SUPERVISOR to make sure that his ideas are implemented correctly.
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Tissue to the extreme!
Sometimes we even manage to speak words. - Feb 3, 2013 4:31 pm GMTI can't find the Iwata Asks, but basically NSMBW was going to have a larger plot in it, then Miyamoto said that he didn't want the game to get bogged down and felt that Peach liking cake and getting kidnapped was good enough. Bye bye plot.
Even though Sonic 3 managed to have more of a story than that without bogging the game down in the 90's.
?
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Tissue to the extreme!
Sometimes we even manage to speak words. - Feb 4, 2013 4:47 am GMTSpunkySix posted...
I can't find the Iwata Asks, but basically NSMBW was going to have a larger plot in it, then Miyamoto said that he didn't want the game to get bogged down and felt that Peach liking cake and getting kidnapped was good enough. Bye bye plot.
Even though Sonic 3 managed to have more of a story than that without bogging the game down in the 90's.
?
Sonic 3? Plot?
Hah thats a good one.
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Thank you for taking the time to read this sig.
This sig loves you. - Feb 4, 2013 5:59 am GMT-The Mega Man (Classic) fanbase with their hatred of 4-8, but extreme love (and by that, I mean ****-sucking) of 9 and 10, just because they were identical to 2, yet pan the entire Battle Network and Star Force series for being "samey"...
Um, I've never seen fans put 4 in the same league as 5-8. Probably because 4 owns, even the developers agree it's the pinnacle of the classic formula.
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http://youtu.be/n5Drq_YW0Gs http://youtu.be/dK-Z0Ts-jVc
Mega Man rocks. - Feb 4, 2013 7:59 am GMTMaster_Gamer posted...
-The Mega Man (Classic) fanbase with their hatred of 4-8, but extreme love (and by that, I mean ****-sucking) of 9 and 10, just because they were identical to 2, yet pan the entire Battle Network and Star Force series for being "samey"...
Um, I've never seen fans put 4 in the same league as 5-8. Probably because 4 owns, even the developers agree it's the pinnacle of the classic formula.
4 was the game where the fanbase started to criticize the series, primarily because:
-It was the 4th game with no real changes in "substance" and look
-It gave Mega Man the Mega Buster(Charge Shot), something a LOT of people complained about...
-People started throwing out the "Capcom's outta ideas" cry because of bosses like Pharaoh- and ToadMan.
At this point, it was pretty much "6 was the only good thing to come out of the later Classic series", and anything that wasn't like 2 was the worst...
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Jumping around, reading Tropes all day. Got video games to play, school sure isn't easy. 3DS FC-5370-0900-3336/Wii-U: NewZen41 - Feb 4, 2013 11:02 am GMTMcmadnessV3 posted...
SpunkySix posted...
I can't find the Iwata Asks, but basically NSMBW was going to have a larger plot in it, then Miyamoto said that he didn't want the game to get bogged down and felt that Peach liking cake and getting kidnapped was good enough. Bye bye plot.
Even though Sonic 3 managed to have more of a story than that without bogging the game down in the 90's.
?
Sonic 3? Plot?
Hah thats a good one.
Uh, you did play through Sonic 3, right, Mcmadness? I mean, it wasn't a complex story, but there were non-gameplay related events happening in the game and not the manual.
-Knuckles taking away the Chaos Emeralds in the first cutscene, then the game starting without the screen fading out
-bombing of Angel Island, without taking control away from the player
-Marble Garden Zone's miniboss' influence on the level
-Knuckles knocking out the power to Carnival Night
-The Death Egg launching at Launch Base Zone
-Eggman totally betraying Knuckles at Hidden Palace
-Knuckles thinking of using the Sky Sanctuary for Sonic and Tails to use as a shortcut to get to the Death Egg
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Nintendo 3DS FC: 2664-2654-8959
Nothin' much, just cookin'. - Feb 4, 2013 11:31 am GMTDMZapp posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
SpunkySix posted...
I can't find the Iwata Asks, but basically NSMBW was going to have a larger plot in it, then Miyamoto said that he didn't want the game to get bogged down and felt that Peach liking cake and getting kidnapped was good enough. Bye bye plot.
Even though Sonic 3 managed to have more of a story than that without bogging the game down in the 90's.
?
Sonic 3? Plot?
Hah thats a good one.
Uh, you did play through Sonic 3, right, Mcmadness? I mean, it wasn't a complex story, but there were non-gameplay related events happening in the game and not the manual.
-Knuckles taking away the Chaos Emeralds in the first cutscene, then the game starting without the screen fading out
-bombing of Angel Island, without taking control away from the player
-Marble Garden Zone's miniboss' influence on the level
-Knuckles knocking out the power to Carnival Night
-The Death Egg launching at Launch Base Zone
-Eggman totally betraying Knuckles at Hidden Palace
-Knuckles thinking of using the Sky Sanctuary for Sonic and Tails to use as a shortcut to get to the Death Egg
Yes I've played the game, thats not plot, thats just random little cutscenes, even NSMB has random little cutscenes.
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Thank you for taking the time to read this sig.
This sig loves you. - Feb 4, 2013 1:42 pm GMTMcmadnessV3 posted...
DMZapp posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
SpunkySix posted...
I can't find the Iwata Asks, but basically NSMBW was going to have a larger plot in it, then Miyamoto said that he didn't want the game to get bogged down and felt that Peach liking cake and getting kidnapped was good enough. Bye bye plot.
Even though Sonic 3 managed to have more of a story than that without bogging the game down in the 90's.
?
Sonic 3? Plot?
Hah thats a good one.
Uh, you did play through Sonic 3, right, Mcmadness? I mean, it wasn't a complex story, but there were non-gameplay related events happening in the game and not the manual.
-Knuckles taking away the Chaos Emeralds in the first cutscene, then the game starting without the screen fading out
-bombing of Angel Island, without taking control away from the player
-Marble Garden Zone's miniboss' influence on the level
-Knuckles knocking out the power to Carnival Night
-The Death Egg launching at Launch Base Zone
-Eggman totally betraying Knuckles at Hidden Palace
-Knuckles thinking of using the Sky Sanctuary for Sonic and Tails to use as a shortcut to get to the Death Egg
Yes I've played the game, thats not plot, thats just random little cutscenes, even NSMB has random little cutscenes.
Did it add to the story and give even a small amount of personality to certain characters? Yes, it did. Through those "random little cutscenes" alone one can discern that Knuckles wanted the Chaos Emeralds for some reason, someone was attacking Angel Island(kind of obvious who, but still), Knuckles saw Sonic as a threat(constantly harassing him trying to keep him from advancing further) and sided with Robotnik for some reason.
In Sonic and Knuckles, Robotnik's Betrayal of Knuckles in the Hidden Palace Zone pretty much confirms that he tricked him and then there's the reveal of the Sky Sanctuary Zone and etc.
So yes, that's plot, because Plot is a literary term defined as the events that make up a story, particularly as they relate to one another in a pattern, in a sequence, through cause and effect, how the reader views the story, or simply by coincidence.
Do those cutscenes make up a story? Yes. Do they relate to one another in a pattern? Yep, it's not full of twists and turns, but it's a pattern; a straightforward one at that. Do the events that happen in those scenes affect the story in some way? Yep. Angel Island Act 2, Marble Garden Act 2; both areas that are affected by one of Robotnik's machines. Carnival Night Act 2 is affected by Knuckles' meddling, as well. Do all these scenes change how the viewer perceives the story? Yep. Again, it's not a deep story, but it's pretty easy to link every one of those scenes into a cohesive story about how Robotnik tricked an Inhabitant of the Floating Island into attacking Sonic while he or one of his robots played the villain, all so he could launch the Death Egg uninterrupted(which backfired on him because Sonic is Sonic) and then he continued the charade so he could steal the Master Emerald; finally revealing his true intentions to Knuckles, the unwitting pawn in his plan, resulting in him forming an alliance with the one he thought was his enemy to stop Robotnik and save his home.
I'd say that makes up a decent story, wouldn't you? - Feb 4, 2013 6:53 pm GMTThanks, great summary.
I'd like to add in the facts that Hidden Palace has an etching in the wall that foreshadows the final battle in space as well as every level connection and Knuckles' story taking place AFTER Sonic's and continuing the plot.
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Tissue to the extreme!
Sometimes we even manage to speak words. - Feb 4, 2013 7:11 pm GMTYou know what game really had a good plot?
notSonic 2006
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Trolls have taken over our Mystic Bell Towers. I tried a fire spell on them, but it only made them crazier! - Feb 4, 2013 8:18 pm GMTMcmadnessV3 posted...
SpunkySix posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
Why do people keep bringing up miyamoto when it comes to NSMB?
He wasn't in charge of those developement teams.
He's still a hypocrite because he allows his characters to be used in samey platformers over and over, but complains that this game felt like a "port". He could have said something to the NSMB team if he wanted to, he's Miyamoto for Toad's sake. But no, THIS is the series he arbitrarily decided needed big changes.
Of course he was going to make a comment about this game, he was in charge of the development team, not the NSMB teams. If he had any say on the NSMB games (which he doesn't) than I would imagine he would make a few changes.
He had no connection to sticker star either, he barged in once after e3 2010 and told them to scrap everything, start over, and make it less like TTYD, and once again later to reinforce that statement. He was not in charge of the dev team.
Of course, I can't expect you to know this when you're apparently unaware that Sonic 3 had a story. Fun fact: SMB3 had a story too, about how Bowser's children went out and cursed the rulers of the mushroom kingdom, and while Mario was out trying to break the curses, Bowser came and kidnapped Toadstool. It wasn't much, it didn't "bog the game down", it was much better than a 10 second cutscene of some bad guys hiding in a cake who jumped out, grabbed the princess, and ran.
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"it's that game that is so great it makes you want to destroy your Toilet." -Throwback2780 - Feb 4, 2013 8:53 pm GMTCzar_Yoshi posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
SpunkySix posted...
McmadnessV3 posted...
Why do people keep bringing up miyamoto when it comes to NSMB?
He wasn't in charge of those developement teams.
He's still a hypocrite because he allows his characters to be used in samey platformers over and over, but complains that this game felt like a "port". He could have said something to the NSMB team if he wanted to, he's Miyamoto for Toad's sake. But no, THIS is the series he arbitrarily decided needed big changes.
Of course he was going to make a comment about this game, he was in charge of the development team, not the NSMB teams. If he had any say on the NSMB games (which he doesn't) than I would imagine he would make a few changes.
He had no connection to sticker star either, he barged in once after e3 2010 and told them to scrap everything, start over, and make it less like TTYD, and once again later to reinforce that statement. He was not in charge of the dev team.
Of course, I can't expect you to know this when you're apparently unaware that Sonic 3 had a story. Fun fact: SMB3 had a story too, about how Bowser's children went out and cursed the rulers of the mushroom kingdom, and while Mario was out trying to break the curses, Bowser came and kidnapped Toadstool. It wasn't much, it didn't "bog the game down", it was much better than a 10 second cutscene of some bad guys hiding in a cake who jumped out, grabbed the princess, and ran.
No, that is not plot. That is a scenario. Please do yourself a favour and learn the difference.
And ok, he wasn't in charge of the development team, which means they didn't need to listen to him. And yet they did anyway. Perhaps its because they thought it was a good idea too? Even the earliest screen shots of the game still had the sticker mechanic in them. Early screen shots of the game even had the forest and plains locations which means they were going to be there from the beginning.
The only things from the early build that didn't appear in the final product was the chain chomp and the purple monty mole thing.
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Thank you for taking the time to read this sig.
This sig loves you. - Feb 4, 2013 8:58 pm GMTHe had no connection to sticker star either, he barged in once after e3 2010 and told them to scrap everything, start over, and make it less like TTYD, and once again later to reinforce that statement. He was not in charge of the dev team.
That's pretty wrong. He was constantly giving advice, as the Iwata Asks had mentioned. They only specifically mentioned the two instances because the interview wasn't Iwata Asks: Shigero Miyamoto's Meddling in PM:SS.
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http://youtu.be/n5Drq_YW0Gs http://youtu.be/dK-Z0Ts-jVc
Mega Man rocks. - Feb 4, 2013 8:59 pm GMTWTF is FE13? Do you mean FE:A? You don't see people saying SMRPG5 or whatever...
- Feb 4, 2013 9:35 pm GMTGargomon251 posted...
WTF is FE13? Do you mean FE:A? You don't see people saying SMRPG5 or whatever...
Referring to Fire Emblem games by number is very common.
Also Mega Man 5 is an amazing game that everyone loves, **** da haters
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The only thing more consistent than the Pats beating the Texans is my mother's regret she survived childbirth, knowing she spawned a welcher - Feb 4, 2013 10:08 pm GMTMy favorite part of Mega Man 5 is the game punishing you for ever thinking about using the uncharged buster shots. And the terrible weapons in a series whose main gimmick revolves around weapons. At least it's better than 10, which had godawful weapons and was actually pretty hard. Along with being cheap and grating. **** you forever for Commando Man's stage, IntiCreates. And your ongoing love affair with spike overkill.
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http://youtu.be/n5Drq_YW0Gs http://youtu.be/dK-Z0Ts-jVc
Mega Man rocks. - Feb 4, 2013 10:15 pm GMTWhile I may not know much about how much influence Miyamoto has had on the recent games, one post here pretty much said it all.
He essentially told IS to drop their supposed "TTYD port" (or at least that's what it was referred to) and take out any of IS's usual original ideas and stick them with rehashed characters. He also pretty much told them to strip the story out because, as many have stated before, he doesn't seem to like story in his Mario games and he thinks that a simple objective to get from start to finish is all a player needs.
That's more than enough to pin the blame on him. Of course, IS does deserve blame as well for taking it to heart. - Feb 4, 2013 10:28 pm GMTMcmadnessV3 posted...
Czar_Yoshi posted...
SMB3 had a story too, about how Bowser's children went out and cursed the rulers of the mushroom kingdom, and while Mario was out trying to break the curses, Bowser came and kidnapped Toadstool. It wasn't much, it didn't "bog the game down", it was much better than a 10 second cutscene of some bad guys hiding in a cake who jumped out, grabbed the princess, and ran.
No, that is not plot. That is a scenario. Please do yourself a favour and learn the difference.
Yes, that was a plot; multiple scenarios that form a story. The plot is the main story while scenarios are sequences of events that tie into the plot in some way; whether those scenarios become important to the overall plot or not depends. One of the rulers being cursed and subsequently saved by Mario is a scenario; there are seven similar scenarios that tie into the greater plot in SMB3, with the eighth and final scenario being Bowser's defeat. All these scenarios form a plot: "Bowser sets the Koopalings loose to conquer various lands in another attempt to conquer the Mushroom Kingdom and then kidnaps Princess Toadstool, again. Mario and Luigi are called upon to save the day and make their way through various lands, eventually confronting Bowser and saving Princess Toadstool."
Maybe you should learn the difference between a scenario and plot and how they connect before calling other people out on not knowing what they're talking about. - Feb 5, 2013 3:37 am GMTSentinel07 posted...
While I may not know much about how much influence Miyamoto has had on the recent games, one post here pretty much said it all.
He essentially told IS to drop their supposed "TTYD port" (or at least that's what it was referred to) and take out any of IS's usual original ideas and stick them with rehashed characters. He also pretty much told them to strip the story out because, as many have stated before, he doesn't seem to like story in his Mario games and he thinks that a simple objective to get from start to finish is all a player needs.
That's more than enough to pin the blame on him. Of course, IS does deserve blame as well for taking it to heart.
That's the thing. IS was stupid to listen to him, but first of all, telling Miyamoto to **** off is easier said than done, and secondly, as such an influential person, he should know that his ideas will be taken to heart and if he hadn't come up with the stupid ideas in the first place, IS wouldn't have spontaneously decided to veer off in another direction. It was his ideas, it was his vision and it was his game after that advice was given.
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Tissue to the extreme!
Sometimes we even manage to speak words.
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FE13 proves that this game was ruined by ...
Paper Mario: Sticker Star
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- Developer(s): Intelligent Systems
- Genre: Role-Playing
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