subrosian - sounds like Verizon. *shrug*

What are you gonna do?

[/QUOTE]

Works with every other wireless device on the planet, including my Nintendo DS, laptop and my brother's llaptop and Wii, but it doesn't work with the 360. Sounds like Microsoft. What are we going to do? Stop supporting Microsoft, people are only gaming on the Xbox 360 because "it has the game" - failing to realize that whatever platform we all decide to game on will have the games. With more and more titles going multiplat I think it's time we said "screw you" to the big console manufacturers and did our own thing.

Demand more games in OpenGL, push for games cross-platform, cross-OS, cross-hardware. If the Xbox 360 represents the direction Microsoft wants to take consoles in, I have to ask "what's the point of it being a console?". We vote with our dollars, and while Microsoft is digging themselves into a very large hole (aka they're not profitable) supporting their closed-system, poorly supported hardware is idiotic.

This is all in stark contrast to Nintendo customer support. When my brother's Wii stopped working with one of his wireless controllers, it was a free-of-charge, incredibly quick turn around. It turned out one of the Wiimotes was the problem (not the Wii) but they got everything fixed for him and shipped back just fine, no questions, no charge. That's how it should be when you buy a console - that's *why* you buy a console. Nintendo didn't need to say "you have a three year warranty for this one specific error" because that specific error doesn't exist on their console.

I have *never* had to call Nintendo customer service, no product I've bought from them has broken. I had one stuck pixel on my DS, and it was swapped out at the store, no problem, no harassment, but aside from that a Nintendo product has never given me a problem. I've had every gameboy ever made, abused them, dropped them, spilled soda on them, and they've kept on trooping.

For current 360 owners? I don't know what to say - you don't have a durable product, and it's why the 360 struggles in asian countries. I've talked to dozens of people from Japan and China on the issue- there's a *cultural perception* that places a great deal of value on design and durability - I asked about the 360 and got near-universal looks of disgust - "it's just not good hardware", "it's no good", "no, no...it's so blecckh" was the universal response. The Wii and DS were almost univerally favored, with the PSP considered okay, but not having as many games, and the PS3 more for "hardcore enthusiasts". I didn't get negative reactions to PC gaming, but more of a noncommital response.

Granted, this is all ancedotal, but the point is - it's worth noting that the "three-year" warranty hasn't saved Microsoft any face, and (from my perspective) the root problem hasn't change - poor customer service, poor reliability. I don't want one issue replaced with another, I want there to *be no issue*. You wouldn't accept a car that is going to need all kinds of service done - even if that service was going to be done for free - because it's a waste of your time, and frustrating to deal with, and the same has held true for Microsoft consoles for quite some time.

-

The moment they lose the games, can you honestly say you have any particular loyalty to Microsoft?

[QUOTE="myke2010"] Should have just taken the system back to the store and complained to the manager until they gave you a new system. I've never met a store manager who wouldn't accede to customer demands if they complained long enough. Also, I'm assuming you're not in the US as there are laws covering these type of things here and MS is required to repair or replace it for free. The 30-90 warranty is generally a catch all meant to cover the completely unexpected defects apart from the major issues. It sounds to me like the tech support person your bro talked to straight up lied to try to make MS some easy money as everything in the box is covered by the 90 day warranty. Despite the fact my own dealings with MS support were actually pleasant and very efficient, the way your brother got treated wouldn't surprise me in the least considering some of the support phone calls I've endured over the years with various companies.[/QUOTE]

We did take it back to the store, and got it swapped out. The TRU manager was nice about it. I'm not 100% certain why my brother chose to call the Xbox support first, rather than just returning it, I didn't ask him, but he probably thought he had set it up incorrectly. It turned out he had a faulty hard drive. However, I do live in the US - and Microsoft told my brother that he would have to *pay them* to get it repaired. Yes, on a console he had *just purchased* that by law should have been under warranty. I was absolutely livid when he told me.

Microsoft customer service is incredibly poor, for fun some time, call 1-800-4-MY-XBOX, ask to be transferred to "LIVE Games for Windows Support" and try to get a simple question answered.

[QUOTE="Jandurin"]Because RROD sucks, and if it happens within 3 years, you're safe.[/QUOTE]

If the power supply burns out, hard drive fails, DVD drive fails, wireless transmiter for the controller fails, or any dozen other non-RROD failures occur you will be required to pay for the repair. RROD issue has been exaggerated, the drive failures have not.

My 360 hasn't had one hiccup in 2 years. So you're telling me that should it malfunction, mess up, or RROD that a 3 Year Warrenty isn't a good thing?

This is indeed hilarious. I mean Microsoft offering to fix your console for free for 3 years is bad?

[/QUOTE]

Woah, they're not offering to fix your console for free. They're offering you a free repair for a hardware fault that has landed them in litigation. What they're doing is offering to fix something they *know* shouldn't have been their in the first place because the law makes it very clear who is legally responsible if this error occurs.

The RROD warranty only covers the handful of hardware problems that cause RROD - it doesn't the common DVD-drive failure or other ailments.

What Microsoft did with their three-year warrnaty was reduce their litigation costs, and reduce the possibility of puntative damages in the event of a court ruling against them.

[QUOTE="subrosian"]The moment they lose the games, can you honestly say you have any particular loyalty to Microsoft?[/QUOTE] How can they lose what they already have?

I have loyalty to no corporation in existence.

[/QUOTE]

Would you support a company's console, regardless of that company's business practices, reason for making the console, hardware faults, or customer service, simply to play a handful of exclusives?

[QUOTE="myke2010"] Should have just taken the system back to the store and complained to the manager until they gave you a new system. I've never met a store manager who wouldn't accede to customer demands if they complained long enough. Also, I'm assuming you're not in the US as there are laws covering these type of things here and MS is required to repair or replace it for free. The 30-90 warranty is generally a catch all meant to cover the completely unexpected defects apart from the major issues. It sounds to me like the tech support person your bro talked to straight up lied to try to make MS some easy money as everything in the box is covered by the 90 day warranty. Despite the fact my own dealings with MS support were actually pleasant and very efficient, the way your brother got treated wouldn't surprise me in the least considering some of the support phone calls I've endured over the years with various companies.[/QUOTE]

We did take it back to the store, and got it swapped out. The TRU manager was nice about it. I'm not 100% certain why my brother chose to call the Xbox support first, rather than just returning it, I didn't ask him, but he probably thought he had set it up incorrectly. It turned out he had a faulty hard drive. However, I do live in the US - and Microsoft told my brother that he would have to *pay them* to get it repaired. Yes, on a console he had *just purchased* that by law should have been under warranty. I was absolutely livid when he told me.

Microsoft customer service is incredibly poor, for fun some time, call 1-800-4-MY-XBOX, ask to be transferred to "LIVE Games for Windows Support" and try to get a simple question answered.

[/QUOTE] I am pretty sure the warranty only covers the RROD issue, soits fair.Your brother just had some bad luck. Still doesn't make it any less frustrating though.[/QUOTE]

He owned the console less than 24 hours and it broke. I have never bought *any other product* in my life, had it break the moment I turned it on, and then called up a company to hear "sorry, we're going to have to charge you to fix something we sent you broken".

I had a six-month old Brita-water filter start leaking, I called Brita, no hastle, no problems, they sent me a voucher for a new water filter of my choice. He calls Microsoft asking them to fix a problem on a console he just purchased and they ask him for a credit card. When he told me about that, what little faith I had left in Microsoft was torn to shreds. That's how they treat their customers?

You know that means that if he had been four months into his console (too late to return to TRU) and his hard drive stopped working, they would charge him money to fix it... that's insane, absolutely insane. I though you were 100% covered for the first year, and RROD covered for the first three years - apparently that is not the case.

[QUOTE="subrosian"] If the power supply burns out, hard drive fails, DVD drive fails, wireless transmiter for the controller fails, or any dozen other non-RROD failures occur you will be required to pay for the repair. RROD issue has been exaggerated, the drive failures have not.[/QUOTE] Yep. Gotta worry about the same everyday things we always do.

The RROD is the most serious and most abnormal. Poor heat dispersal or something. I mean... you've never bought a DVD drive that didn't work? Or broke after a month?

Or a camera that sucked? This is technology. Welcome to the future.

[/QUOTE]

Actually no, I haven't. And I would expect the customer service and reliability of a $350 product to be significantly better than a $30 DVD player.