Northern California court orders Bluehost, Google, Twitter, YouTube to hand over identifying information of all individuals who accessed George Hotz's websites, videos, hack.
Sony has won yet another legal victory over PlayStation 3 jailbreaker George "GeoHot" Hotz. Northern California District Judge Joseph Spero has granted Sony's request to unmask visitors to various websites related to the PS3 hack, which lets people install and run unauthorized software on the system, from homebrew applications to pirated games and custom firmware.
The court order, issued on March 3, stipulates that Bluehost, which hosts Hotz's website, must turn over all documentation that can be used to identify anyone who visited the website. That information includes names and telephone numbers, as well as e-mail and IP addresses. Notably, the order gives Sony access to all the IP addresses that accessed the PS3 jailbreak download from Hotz's website.
In its argument, Sony justified this information request by stating that it has "a good faith basis to obtain this information because it is relevant to whether the Court has jurisdiction over Mr. Hotz. SCEA needs to determine how rampant the access to and use of these circumvention devices has been in California in order to rebut Mr. Hotz's suggestion that his illicit conduct was not aimed at the forum state."
The information request is also pertinent, Sony argued, because it speaks to Sony's charge that Hotz has violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act by evidencing Hotz's "distribution of a circumvention device to other persons." Sony notes that it would not be possible to obtain this information from any other source, a key component to address the otherwise intrusive nature of its claim.
The California court's order also extends to information requests sent to Twitter, Google, and YouTube. Sony's documentation request to Twitter seeks to uncover private tweets that may be used to determine whether Hotz targeted his PS3 jailbreak to individuals in California, which is a core procedural question. The jurisdiction question is also a component of Sony's information requests sent to Google and YouTube.
They can look for perpetrators all they want but once something hits the internet, it will never be erased.
@night-dreamers, you can argue that he doesnīt deserve it, but you canīt deny his resposibility, he delivered the security keys of the ps3 and allowed for piracy, he isnīt a "pirate" but he sure as some respoonsiblity. Sony is defending their investment like they should, nothing more...
@Claudiov1_0 You don't get sarcasm do you? you said "he will regret the day he messed up with Sony"(or something like that) whatever it is that's happening Hotz doesn't deserve it, you can't argue with that, he didn't allow pirating, why not chase the true pirates here?
Bad thing is i visited the site.. good thing is i didnt run the hack... my friend told me about the site and i downloaded the file... but i surely did NOT hack my PS3 :) .... mainly due to my psn account has $400 of games and i want to stay on psn with black ops.... well never the less i hope "Geohot" gets sued, people were able to pirate games and hack online due to him... LONG LIVE SONY ..P.S. for anyone reading this i just read the court just granted sony in favor of wining the LG case and Sony sued LG ?130,000 in the process :)
Firmware V3.60 has taken care of this issue as it is now. Not only does it stop the hack, but also includes an ability for PlayStation Plus users to save their games on a cloud on the net.
Its exactly situations like this where we cannot give a company an inch or they will take miles and miles. If this passes other companies will try the same and it will only snowball, and it wont be in our favor
So whats next will sony then want all the i.p's,e-mail's and messages from the people who accessed hotz site why not just give everyone's details to anybody who wants it(Sarcasm).When will Sony realise that pandora's box is open and they ain't gonna be able to close it.
@Claudiov1_0 Rap was a joke. You understand that? Do you understand also that the joke has no other impact on the case other than NONE? Calling people stupid because of bragging doesn't feel right. They are just full of themselves.
to say that it's his fault for putting this information out because it could be used by someone else is the same as blaming the internet for it. Why don't we just shut down the internet? It's obviously at fault for nearly ALL software piracy. With it gone you actually have to know people. We should go after its inventors for enabling piracy at a global scale. *sarcasm* Just because something or someone does something that enables someone else to use it illegally doesn't mean its that first person's fault. You don't blame car companies for drunk drivers or the film maker for letting kids into R-rated movies. You go after the person that did the actual wrong.
@lister82 change PC to apple comp then. Apple owns the harware and software, and you know whats great about it being the same as apple? This case is a repeat and sony will lose. Hotz didn't disribute anything that that was copyrighted, he isn't legally responsible for any information he gets out of the system. As I said before, it was the equivilant of handing him a sealed envelope and expecting he wouldn't open it. If they didn't want it to get out they would have protected it better, but that's the thing, this is exactly how they find out if that is necessary. if it were a matter of opinion it wouldn't be in court right now. Hotz is in the right. Maybe you don't see why but it's true, and the courts will agree.
Sony behaves like a pornographic publisher and joins the bandwagon of the companies, authorities, etc.. who think that they can investigate our IP for any reason. That won't make them popular. Their argument is also quite stunning because it admits that they had no proof of what they alleged at the first place. I guess that ten years ago they would have done my mailbox or my bin.
It seems they are going to take action to people that have downloaded the hacks or whatever. Plus distributing something that violates the Terms and Conditions is highly illegal.
Lets allow the court to rule before we all go nuts: There is still a good chance GeoHot will be fine; Apple went ballistic over the IPhone and he won that case. Counting me as someone who "hacked my system" just because I checked out George's website seems a little fishy to me. I didn't hack it because I want the court to rule that I have the right to first. Once that happens, its HOMEBREW time. (no I will not be stealing PS3/PSN games, or cheating online.)
The problem here is not the fact that Hotz hacked the console, for that i give him "credit" (he hacked a console that was untouchable for 4 years), but he bragged about it and his actions were immature (the rap was simply retarded)... He called out sony and now he is paying for it, for a guy as smart as him, he made a really stupid move....
@night-dreamers in what way did you jump into that conclusion from my comment, i only said that he willl regret it, i didnīt said anything else...
If i buy a PS3 its my property and I should be able to run homebrew and freeware.... sony have taken this a bit too far, there are better ways to target piracy of games
@torres_unix True. I think it would be best to check the IP addresses of those who downloaded the jailbreak, and if the jailbreak was installed, give them notice to remove it, or the console is confiscated. I'm sure Sony have other ideas, but then again, I'm not part of Sony, so I don't know what they'd do, even though I have had Sony consoles throughout my life.
@blazethe1 Going out and buying a PC is not at all the same as buying a console. Buying a console is not only buying the hardware, but the software that goes along with it. The software rights belong to Sony, and to be used as they intend, it's almost like a permanent renting of it. If you buy a premade PC your buying the hardware alone, with the option to get an operating system with it. You can chop and change hardware, operating systems etc. A console is a glorified PC except with a fixed boot up each time. I'm not going to argue anymore, because this will go on, and on. This is all opinion, and I appreciate someone's opinion, but what you said that buying a PC is the equivalent to buying a console, is just wrong. Final thought I have on this is that hackers in this manner are wrong, very wrong, and I hope Sony ruins him. I also cannot see how you, or anyone else, can consciously justify the distribution of something that will cost developers/companies money.
@daniel5583, I find it that the UK judicial system is much more fair in many respects to ours. Unfortunately for the kid, he's in deep trouble for taunting Sony, I would've just kept my mouth shut if I were him. As for the folks who visited the site, it would take Sony vast amounts of money to go after every single person, specially anyone who visited from a site known as Slashdot, when news like that are posted there, members flood the links like a deluge so it's going to be difficult to sort unless they have a computer cluster dedicated just for that.
@phnw123 I quote from earlier; DanielL5583 Posted Mar 8, 2011 8:45 pm GMT @CXXXXXXXXXXXXXl I had to intercept all 'private' stuff. Nothing's private now! Everything is turning into 1984! 24/7 surveillance, be it camera, internet, audio, photography etc., nothing about the world is private. This, my friend, is what this so called 'privacy' is - zero. Ever read the book 1984 by George Orwell? That is a perfect example of what I am talking about.
@torres_unix Sorry if I sound a little blunt, but I live in the UK, where there is a somewhat different judicial system.
I personally think most people in here are vilifying a naive (yet very talented) kid based on just one side of the argument, they also don't understand why Sony is really doing this (hint, $$$) - the general populous has an option to show discontent with their strong arm tactics, and that is not purchasing their stuff, period. If anyone here has ever worked close to the upper-ranks of a corporation will understand two things: 1. He's being used as a scapegoat, 2. If all hackers were to disappear today, Inc would find other scapegoats to justify game price gouging. Hell, might as well start blaming game price hikes on illegal immigration.
Daniel5583, you're entitled to your opinions, but you should get more factual information before making assumptions, and perhaps understanding how the US legal system really works... I'll give you a hint, it's not about justice, nor right or wrong.
@blazethe1 No. You twisted what I intended to say. Also, if you READ, you'd see that I said "There's no agreement to either side, which is kind of the point of an opinion", which means that opinions are meant to be controversial. Hitler's views were controversial, my views, as it seems, are controversial, heck, even yours are controversial.
@lister82 actually you bring up a great point. Because it's not like buying a PC, it is literally equivelent to buying a PC. Fyi, you can't dismiss a valid argument without disproving it first, so stop trying to do that. @DanielL5583 According to your logic, hitler's opinions about other groups of people were justified. If you would like to retract your statement and agree that opions can be unwarranted, damaging and in need of correction, I think that would be a wise decision.
@blazethe1 Yes, I know about otherOS, I mentioned it in one of my comments, but that is what the other hackers, that I can't remember the names of were going for, and if Hotz wanted that as well he wouldn't have provided the information to the internet. But this is just another battle of who think's who is right. It is Sony's console, if they want to take a feature away in a follow up console, or from their current one (within reason), that is up to them. Don't give the metaphor of owning a car or something, or it's like buying a PC, buying a console is different. Like I said to another user on here a while back, if you support Hotz on making the information public, then you do condone piracy, because that is primarily what it would be used for on the whole, than just using otherOS.
@MMaestro Did you not read my post? I said that chances are the IP lists will say who asked for what packets, in other words who just visited or who made a download request.
@lister82 are you aware that the ps3 was originally shipped with the ability to install an "other OS" and this feature was removed in a subsequent patch? They did not mention that this was something that could happen in their original TOS thereby effectively selling you something and then taking it back; like one of those coins on a string that people used on early vending machines. Hotz simply took this back. Every other company loves hackers like Hotz. They find and document exactly what needs fixed for no charge. Its like having a genius work for you for free.
@blazethe1 There is no such thing as right and wrong in opinions. It's your own opinion, therefore you may thing it's right, whilst others say otherwise. There's no agreement to either side, which is kind of the point of an opinion.
@DanielL5583 Also, I never once asserted that you lived in he US. I was referring to the laws applicable to this case, the ones in the US.
@DanielL5583 Sure, you're entitled to your own opinion. But it's wrong. Just like racism is based on misinformation and bad impressions, your view of hackers is unwaranted, unfounded and ultimately hateful. You are wrong. And im trying to point it out to you. So you can either listen and learn something or close your eyes and pretend youre right. Whichever you think is the more mature solution.
@crazyirishmikey I should also mention that pretty much everything in my house is Sony and that I love Sony products but my last comment still stands. btw - the entire Sony network is currently down for maintanance ... hmmm maybe the "quick fix" (update) is already here showing that Sony was probably quite confident about what was going to happen in court! :?
This is both a win for Sony and a loss for the public - by maintaining the status quo thus Sony will do a quick fix (update) and have everything go back to normal. ... Reverse Engineering is a technique which forces companies like Sony to move on to bigger and better things thus making things better for us - in this case this has just helped Sony remain stagnant for a few more years preserving their profits. :?
Quote DanielL5583:"To be honest, I think Sony are doing the right thing to get rid off the hackers. My Steam account was hacked, which meant I had to wait around 3 weeks to get it back. To end, I HATE HACKERS AND SONY ARE DOING US THE WORLD OF GOOD!" You don't understand that 'hacker' is an umbrella term. There is a difference between one type of hacker unlocking his PS3 and a different type of hacker stealing your information. I don't hate people 'hacking' their PS3 to unlock it, as you do, because it doesn't affect me. Their product, their choice. Sony *really* isn't doing us "the world of good". They're spying on people entitled to privacy (find out another way Sony), who thought they were browsing the web anonymously. Maybe you don't understand the importance of privacy Daniel.
@blazethe1 Are you trying to lecture me, because I don't need any lecture. No, I haven't played Counter-Strike. I don't live in, nor like, the US. I'm from the UK. We have a different government. If I can understand what I said, then that's all that matters. DON'T CORRECT ME ON MY OWN OPINIONS AND FEELINGS.
This just proves how ridiculous the legal system are at tech. I've been to GeoHots website regarding PS3 but I don't even own a PS3, much less actually used the information there. Just visited out of curiosity.
@blazethe1 This is just a never ending debate of opinions. I would rather Sony used their time, and money on adding feature's to their products, rather than having to worry so much about security, like every other games company. He didn't tell Sony about it, that is the problem. He could have told Sony in a more private way, but he didn't, he posted it publicly in a way that anyone could predict that it would be used in an "illegal" mannered way. I did hear he supports the banning of PS3 hackers, and PSN is a different story to the console itself, but essentially providing the means to play games for free is wrong whether you think it's justified or not. The one's behind developing the games don't work for free, as well you know.
@lister82 So let me get this straight, you have no problem with him hacking it....you just have a problem with the freedom of speech? You rather him not tell sony about the flaw in their design and instead......use it to his advantage in the form of piracy? If anything here is legal, it's his posting of the information online. This is in compliance with the DMCA in fact. Had he signed a non-disclosure agreement with sony, yes, then there's an issue, but he didn't. He's a regular dude, who was handed a theoretical envelope by sony with a secret inside. It's not Hotz' job to keep the secret, that's sony's job. And they handed it to him in the form of a PS3. If I say the word "homebrew" do you even know what I'm talking about? Or are you one of those people who think this is only about piracy? Also, are you aware that he has never connected to the PSN? Are you aware that he supports the banning of PS3 hackers (as do I because the PSN belongs to sony, and the system is mine) Have you researched previous cases like this at all? I'm just wondering, because it's no question that sony will lose this case. I'm just upset because this isn't the first time they've done this. And in the past, they lose, but the person they sued is still out legal fees.
@blazethe1 You posted that as I posted my last comment. He provided the means to play/use software bypassing Sony's authenticity signature, and making it public knowledge. If he did what he did, and didn't post it online etc. I wouldn't have a problem with it. If he did it for his own personal use, then fine, work away. The fact he posted it online, thinking no one would do anything about it, makes him an idiot. Like I said I i'm not against all hackers, but Hotz is one I am against because of what he did. Please don't pull the "I bought it, it's mine" card. While that is vaguely true, enabling anyone to play a game for free, instead of paying money for the work that was involved in it's creation, you can't logically, in any way argue that.
@Normaral85 He didn't do anything illgal. You might go read his site and, idk, become educated on a subject before posting about it.
@lister82 Um, are you being serious? Every system made in the last 20 years has a hack posted online for it. Even cell phones now. It has never been a question. If you want to take a hammer to your system, you bought it, go right ahead. If you want to take a soldering iron and an oscilloscope to it, it's yours. If you want to wipe the hard drive and make it run linux, no one can stop you. It's yours. Hotz makes a good point about the Aibopets dispute. A guy bought an Aibopet made by Sony. He wanted it to do more than it was created to do, so he did. There was a full blown online community of people who bought multiple AIBOs just to hack them and play around with them. Sony threatened to sue. Why? Seriously, why? This is a group of people sitting in their house playing with the toy they bought. How does Sony find it acceptable to sue them? You didn't really answer what it was you think Hotz did btw.
@blazethe1 I'm not saying hacker's don't have a place, they can discover new techniques etc. that were previously unknown, but Hotz did the wrong type of hacking. The other guys that worked to get otherOS going, didn't go "let's post this online for everyone". Hotz deserves everything he gets in my opinion.
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