Nintendo's Howard Lincoln: On the Record

Nintendo hopes to keep its brand strong with the upcoming releases of Zelda and Perfect Dark. And then there's always the Game Boy franchise to keep track of - and build upon.

The individual who pulls the strings in the US is NOA chairman Howard Lincoln. Here's the full text of our interview with Lincoln conducted earlier at E3.

Read yesterday's interview with Sega's Bernie Stolar. Tomorrow, we'll post our interview with Kaz Hirai of Sony.

GameSpot News: What do you think of the show so far?Howard Lincoln: Well, I'm very excited. I'm glad that this is the last year we're going to be in Atlanta because of the heat - I'm looking forward to Los Angeles. I'm excited about the Nintendo lineup both on Game Boy and N64, particularly games like Zelda, Perfect Dark from Rare, some of the other Rare products, Game Boy Color, and whatnot. I'm excited to see our industry growing as dramatically as it has in the last several years and maturing with a trade association and most importantly with this evening's presentation of awards at the first Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences.

I think this is a tremendous step for the industry as a whole to recognize creative talent it has built. This business is something that is comparable in size to the record or movie industries. It's a very young business as we all know - there's a tremendous upside, so I couldn't be more positive.

GameSpot News: When you first came to Nintendo way back when, did you ever think it would be this big of an industry and that you'd be at this show with this big a product?Howard Lincoln: When I first came to Nintendo we were in the coin-op business, we weren't in the home business. Clearly when we introduced the NES in 1985, we had no idea that the industry would grow the way it did. That we would have this kind of thing. Even as late as the early 1990s I didn't anticipate this kind of growth, the kind of entry into the business by major companies like Sony or Microsoft, so it's been fun to ride something like this and watch it grow, but I have to admit that I didn't anticipate any of this would happen.

GameSpot News: Do you think it's a good departure from when you were just getting the NES out and were really involved in that and really tried to get retailers involved? Is this just miles away from that?Howard Lincoln: It really is miles away. One of the panelists at the thing this morning made the comment, I think it was Jack Sorenson , that basically said "I've been hearing about how this isn't a viable industry because of the Atari debacle - that's nonsense, let's get real." I thought that was a very refreshing comment because it puts this in the correct perspective. This is not the business that it was in 1985 or early 1990 where there was still speculation it was a fad. Interactive entertainment is a viable entertainment medium that appeals to a mass audience, it's not just boys 7-14, and it is entitled to respect comparable to that given to the movie business or the record business as well. It's been a great change and a lot of fun. I can remember some of these shows when, in the early 1980s, when it was a difficult sell, and Nintendo had a very small booth, and we were really literally evangelists out there. Then it all changed and we had a 90 percent market share and that was a lot of fun too.

But the most fun is to be in this really competitive environment where the technology is rapidly changing and the business itself is growing dramatically - it's just a lot more exciting. And I think that level of competition we have now, even though everybody loves 90 percent market shares, is very, very important to the health of the industry in driving creativity. Which I don't think occurs if one guy's basically got control of everything. I'm not suggesting that's going to happen in this business because I don't think it will.

GameSpot News: You mentioned before being excited about Rare's lineup. What titles are you excited about, why are you excited about them?Howard Lincoln: First of all, Banjo-Kazooie, as you know, has been under development for a number of years and is a huge title. At 128 megs, it's a large memory configuration, but it is a big, big game that will sell in the millions, and it will be one of the great N64 games of all time. Conker, I think, will be in the same league. I think both of those games will be very strong titles for 1998. I think Perfect Dark represents a tremendous creative achievement on the part of Rare. We knew that the fellas that were working on the GoldenEye game wanted to go beyond that and had a lot of ideas and concepts that they couldn't put into GoldenEye. So I'm excited about that title as well because it shows off the potential of N64 technology.

Some of the other Rare games, Jet Force Gemini, and there are a couple of other games that they're working on that they're not showing, show equal promise. One of the most exciting things about Rare is the depth of the creative talent. I think Chris and Tim Stamper and Joel Harper have done a marvelous job driving down that creative talent so we've got a lot of young people (of course, everybody's young when you're my age) who have tremendous creativity and great potential for the future of Rare.

GameSpot News: Now Rare is starting to publish its own titles, though Nintendo owns a majority of Rare?Howard Lincoln: No, Nintendo has a substantial minority ownership interest in Rare. Rare published Diddy Kong Racing. Rare is going to be publishing Conker. Rare will publish Perfect Dark. Nintendo will be distributing those games on a worldwide basis.

GameSpot News: If Nintendo lost Rare or Miyamoto or both - what would be the next step. Where would you go to find the talent that you've gotten in Rare and Shigeru Miyamoto?Howard Lincoln: I think we'd be in a hell of a fix, quite frankly. I think the same could be said of any company, whether it's Sony or Sega or anybody in the interactive entertainment business. The fact of the matter is that the small group of people are the real creative geniuses that are driving the business, and that's not to deprecate upon all the other people that are developing games. But the reality is that there are only so many Miyamotos to go around. I think that one of the biggest challenges the industry faces, not just Nintendo, but as an industry - developing, identifying, nurturing and rewarding development talent.

We're doing some of that on our own with this DigiPen Institute of Technology in Redmond, where we're literally helping with the sponsorship of that college, helping prepare the next generation of game developers. The fact that we're recognizing creative talent with the Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences this evening will help. I think ultimately we'll get around that type of potential problem as everybody in the industry focuses on growing development talent. One of the things that you heard loud and clear from all of the people at that panel this morning was when everyone was asked what the number one challenge was, it wasn't counterfeiting, it wasn't technology - even though those are issues - it was identifying, nurturing, and rewarding key development talent. We have to do that if the industry is to have a future. We're doing it, but we have to do it even more aggressively.

GameSpot News: With the 64DD, yesterday at the media briefing you said that it wouldn't be coming to the US until 199 at least. Are there any plans at Nintendo to turn those 64DD games (like Earthbound and Pocket Monsters Stadium) into cartridge games for the US?Howard Lincoln: Pocket Monsters Stadium will come out as a cartridge in Japan, and if we are successful launching Pokemon in the United States we will eventually bring that cartridge to the US. Some of the other games you mentioned like Earthbound I think will ultimately be N64 games as opposed to DD64.

GameSpot News: Zelda's a 256-megabit cartridge. Is there any room to grow from that, say - go to 512?Howard Lincoln: There's room to grow. I'm not aware of anything above 256 that we're working on, and I don't know if it's really necessary to go much beyond 256. But if Miyamoto says he wants to do 512 game, then we'll do a 512 game.

GameSpot News: You've mentioned the healthy competition going on right now. Where do you think Nintendo stands right now, where do you think it'll be in a year's time, and how do you think Sega's Dreamcast is going to factor into everything?Howard Lincoln: At the end of last year, Nintendo 64 and Sony PlayStation were essentially neck and neck in terms of market share for hardware. We have lost market share in the first few months of 1998 for a variety of reasons including out of stocks and a lack of key/hit titles and also great games being brought in and great marketing by Sony. Our objective is to regain that market share, which I think we can do with the titles that we have. If we can't move a lot of hardware units with Zelda then we should be out of the business - that game is that strong, or games like that are. I think by the end of the year it will be another 50/50 horse race.

It's hard for me to believe that Sony or Nintendo is ever going to get predominant market share over a long period of time. I just don't think that's going to happen. Obviously in Game Boy we enjoy a very nice market share and we're going to do everything we can to continue it. I'm very bullish on the balance of 1998. As I said yesterday we have the best lineup of software and products in Nintendo of America's history. So we're going to be spending a lot of money and there's a lot of great games coming.

As far as Sega is concerned I think that they have a very difficult uphill fight to battle against Nintendo and Sony. They have difficult relationships with gamers, retailers, and third-party publishers. They certainly have the history of being able to make great games - that's not an issue. Whether they're going to have the financial resources to pull this off is anyone's guess. That's really totally dependent not on the technology, because as I mentioned this morning, Nintendo and Sony can easily match any technology that is thrown at them from Sega or by any other people.

Sony and Nintendo, I don't think anyone of them is ever going to get a competitive edge for a long period of time technology-wise. So it's all about quality of software. If their initial launch titles are really good, and if everything else comes together, in addition to having great launch titles, they've got a fighting chance. If the launch titles are only mediocre, then I don't think they have a very good chance. I wish them well - they're a major part and have been a major part; they're one of the founding members of the IDSA, and all we can say is "Good luck," and we'll see what happens.

GameSpot News: So do you think at this point the DD drive will probably stay on hold in favor of a new system in a couple of years?Howard Lincoln: The DD64 is simply a question mark. We're not going to launch it in '98, we're not going to launch it until we get it right - when we get it right we'll launch it, if we don't we won't. In terms of next generation I think that the N64 has a number of years in the future to it. Certainly every company in the industry, Sony and Nintendo included, is working on next generation . Our focus is, just like Sony on PlayStation, is N64.

GameSpot News: Is there any research and development going on with trying to do some kind of a meaningful Internet experience. I know at one point they talked about having a modem built into the DD drive. Is that something that you're still....Howard Lincoln: There's a lot of research and development, a lot of development work that's going on behind the scenes. I think you can anticipate that you'll probably see some additional announcements from Nintendo in this area in the near future, but nothing I can tell you about right now.

GameSpot News: Do you think the next system you guys do will be CD instead of cartridge?Howard Lincoln: I think there's a high probability that the next system that we do will not be cartridge-based. But we have not made a decision on that. I can tell you that we are working with ArtX, they are our partner in the next-generation product. ArtX is a small, California, Silicon Valley-based company that we think has some of the best 3D graphics engineers in the world. They are going to be the key developer of the next-generation product.

We are also in discussions with Silicon Graphics about its role in the next-generation product. But having said all of that, I want you to understand that our focus is, and will remain, on N64 for some years to come.

GameSpot News: With the Color Game Boy, yesterday Miyamoto said during his presentation of the Q&A that they are working in Japan on a color version of the Zelda Game Boy game. Are there any plans to colorize some of the older Nintendo hits like Tetris, Metroid, and Donkey Kong Land?Howard Lincoln: We are going to work on games - one of the games you mentioned will come out in color. I'll let you figure out which one it is.

GameSpot News: Are there any plans, now that the N64 has done really well and the Color Game Boy probably will do very well for the N64 GB Pak from Japan, to interact with any other games besides Pokemon?Howard Lincoln: Right now I think the focus would be Pokemon. Certainly it is in Japan. I'm not aware of any plans to do it in any other titles, but I don't keep up with every single thing that is under development in Japan, so I just don't know. But I think our focus now is on Pokemon and games like Pocket Monster Stadium.

GameSpot News: You guys have done some research into other color handheld systems - Project Atlantis I think.Howard Lincoln: Yeah, at one point there were some people in the UK working on that. But that project was closed down years ago and does not have any connection to the Color Game Boy that we're introducing in November.

GameSpot News: Are there any plans for any future SNES titles?Howard Lincoln: We don't have any new SNES titles under development. There are some SNES titles that we have done that, for a variety of reasons, we've chosen not to release. We may release a few of those. Our primary focus will be on the Player's Choice SNES titles, to support the US$49.95 control deck. It's conceivable that we could bring some of those out, but I think probably it's more likely that we'll just focus on reducing the price, coming out with Player's Choice for just a host of SNES titles. We're doing this throughout 1998, and I'm sure it will continue in 1999.

GameSpot News: Would there be any plan to do a Nintendo Power-like delivery system for games like they have in Japan for the US where you go to a convenience store and the games are burned onto a cartridge?Howard Lincoln: I don't think so.

GameSpot News: The criticism of the Nintendo 64 for the last few years has been the lack of games, where Sony has had many more titles. How do you answer that today?Howard Lincoln: I think one of the reasons for Sony's success has been a wide range of titles. I'd be a certified nut if I didn't say that. I don't think that Nintendo 64 can be a viable competitor trying to mimic that strategy. I think that would be a disaster for Nintendo and for the industry. I think Nintendo has to do a good job focusing on a few key titles.

I think we've done a fair job of that with some success, and we've also seen delays of games and whatnot. I think that the quality of some of the third-party titles on N64 has not been as good as I would have liked. But I think that's gradually improving. I think that we were woefully deficient in the category of sports when the N64 was launched. I think that's been addressed with the EA games, Nintendo Sports games, with sports games from Acclaim and Midway and whatnot. So I think there have been some things that we've had to overcome, but I think you have to take a long-range view of these battles.

The SNES battle for example encompassed a period when Sega was predominant and ended with a period in which Nintendo was predominant. If you put the whole package together you quickly discover that total hardware sales of SNES exceeded Genesis substantially as did total software sales. But the media's perception might be a little different of this. I'm still reading about how Sega somehow cleaned our clock in the 16-bit generation, and I don't think that happened, but there's that perception. So I think it's a little bit too early to say what will ultimately happen in the 32-bit/64-bit battle between Nintendo and Sony. Certainly Sega has pulled out of that battle and is not going to be a viable competitor there at least for a year.

There's a lot of things that can happen within a fairly short period of time in this business that is so dependent on great games. If I had my druthers, and I was sitting there and I had two options - either Sony's market share or Nintendo's games for the next six months - I think I'd put my money on Nintendo's games. Maybe I'd be wrong.

GameSpot News: Do you think it's a possibility that we might see a whole Zelda Collection on one N64 cartridge similar to the way Sega did all the Phantasy Star titles on a CD?Howard Lincoln: I really don't know. I think that's a question you're going to have to ask Miyamoto. I really don't know what his answer would be.

GameSpot News: If you had to categorize the video game industry with Pong being the early black and white movies, Atari 2600 the talkies, where are we right now in terms of movies with video games if you were to compare the two?Howard Lincoln: Probably the 1930s - don't forget that Gone With the Wind was brought out in '38 or '39. I don't think we're there yet.

GameSpot News: But we're close?Howard Lincoln: We're getting closer, yeah. If you go back and say, "What were the academy awards like in the 1930s and 1920s?" Well they sure as hell weren't like they are now. And what were the movies like? They're not like they are now. I think this industry is poised for a tremendous leap, comparable to the movie industry.

I can't predict the future, I don't know exactly how it's going to happen, but I would suspect that years from now they'll probably wheel a few of us into the Academy of Arts and Sciences and we'll be old codgers and we'll be absolutely amazed at the size of the industry. I hope so for you guys.