Come up with new gameplay mechanics and don't add it to an existing character. Yeah the games sell well. But you are not gonna be able to hide behind mario/link/yoshi/luigi forever. Be adventurous Nintendo..
Nintendo discusses why it returns to existing franchises
Director of product marketing says Nintendo sticks with Mario and Zelda games because new "fun and interesting" gameplay ideas make most sense paired with existing properties.
During the latest Nintendo Direct presentation yesterday, the Japanese game giant revealed a slew of new 3DS games, but almost none were new intellectual properties.
GameSpot spoke with Nintendo director of product marketing Bill Trinen after the presentation about why the company continues to return to its existing franchises.
"There's a couple of driving reasons why you keep seeing a lot of the same franchises come back," Trinen said. "One is just the way that we develop games. What we don't do is start off and say we're going to develop a new game in X series or what are we going to do with it? It's really more about what is a fun and interesting new gameplay element or gameplay mechanic? How do we develop that? And then what kind of a character or what series is that really best suited to?"
Trinen explained that in many cases, once a compelling new idea is conceived, it makes sense to pair that with an established character--like Mario or Zelda--so that the game can appeal to a wide range of people.
"And so, in a lot of the cases, if you've got an idea that's really fun and really interesting, pairing that with, for example, Mario, then that takes a fun and interesting gameplay mechanic and puts it with a character that makes it instantly appealing to a very wide range of people," Trinen said.
As part of its 3DS announcements yesterday, Nintendo revealed new gameplay ideas for upcoming installments to existing franchises.
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past sequel for 3DS includes a new feature (pictured) where Link can morph into paper and move against walls, while the new 3DS Mario Party game will include AR Card games.
A second reason why Nintendo continues to develop new entries in existing franchises is because that's what fans want, Trinen said.
"Of course the other approach is, as you frequently see with Nintendo Directs and announcements like this, when we do announce something like a new Yoshi's Island, there's a tremendous fan reaction to that because they want it [laughs]."
Ultimately, Trinen acknowledged that the balancing act between delivering new franchises and extending existing ones is a challenging task, but one that Nintendo believes it has been successful at executing.
"You do on the one hand want to try to find a way to bridge that gap between what are the new experiences that we can offer? How can we give the fans what they're looking for in terms of new installments in existing series? And it is a balance that you've got to find."
978 comments
Its da Delicate Balnce ov reinventin da wheel n Wearn dat sucka out??Nintndo walks a Fine line btween dat but seem to make $$ off all dat??Capcom KNOWS SF but also KNows Res Evil Dark Siders n Retro Ol Sch games dat sell bk den n will Stil sell now how many yaws got da Retro pack on PS n Xbx??Nintndo mite do ALOTTA of da same but den agin its got MANY eggs n diff Baskets???Mario DK Zelda PunchOut yaw kno wat Capcom got n wat dey do WTH Konami do???Metal Gear dats it n Hardly Castlevania its sad Most yaws dont kno TMNT Life force Gyruss Gradius Duble dribble n da Classic Coop Contra also Crime fighters Most yaw Neva haerd or not familair n its a DAM shame Konami denyin yaw dey History n just focus on Metal Gear WTF WRNG WIT KONAMI n by da way also bought Hudson soft who members Bonk n Advnture Island???so in dis case Retro wud wrk WELL fa Konami n make PLNTY $$$ y yaw thnk Ducktales cumin bk Micky mouse Castle of Illusion dis is wat sell bk n da day n WILL SELL TODAY just look at ALL da Retro ol sch games cumin bk don b surprize if Spy hunter Shinobi Turrican IF Konami had sum dam sense Contra n Gradius wud cum bk at least in a Retro Pack Duble Dragon came bk TMNT FINALLY cumin bk dis wat SELLS yaw aint NUTN like da OL SCHOOL Trust wat im sayn cuz i can take yaws WAYYYYY BK LEGGOO
While wat yaws sayn is TRUUUUUUUUUUUU it kinda pigeonhole a Company wen u do da same crap ova n ova n goin bk 2 da same ish its funny but NOBODY but ME can c dat Konami doin just THAT??wat built dat company who TOTALLY frgot wat Classic Games it made is Retro dey seem to b stuck n Metal Gear world 4EVA???Where my Ol sch folk who go bk 20+ yrs like I do wen companies like Capcom Sunsoft Konami Sqauresoft Tecmo Tradewst Bandai so many companies dat MOST yaws dont kno we cum a LONG way yaws??so I do agree Mario Zelda n DK do git old after awhile wen u Reinvent it n do it diff its all good n sells WELL??Stupid Konami dont git it Capcom do?? all da classic games n da Retro Pak da new games RE Rival sch dark siders Ol sch Mega man Strider SF blk Tiger aw dat gud REAL ish its Nostalgia its Butiful we luv it buy it i do cuz i memba ALL dem games??so maybe yaw shud tel Konami git da Memo Learn wat sells BTW chk da MG Legacy Collection ERY metal Gear made will b in it???dam NO Castlevania Collect or Contra Collection or TMNT Collection it go to sho yaws how dis Stupid DUmb Legendary Compny FRGOT they History
So the are basically saying @#$# you to anyone who wants good original games?
That is just disappointing. I enjoy Mario, Zelda, Star Fox, etc but I just can't justify spending $300 dollars on a WII U if it's only good games will be Pokemon or a game from a nearly 30 year old franchise. I am highly considering buying a WII U it would actually be the first non-handheld Nintendo console I have ever owned (I have played Nintendo consoles since the SNES at friend's and family's houses quite a bit but have never owned one) but I don't see that happening unless there is some type of price drop(which seems unlikely according previous articles on this site.)
1 Like While I understand their reasoning, I still see this as being afraid to try something completely fresh and new. A new world of characters is a risk but the characters that are well known today and their series became popular because a risk was taken by creating them and hoping people would enjoy the games and characters.
I only see Nintendo as playing it on the safe side regardless of their game quality.
@Solace427 They don't have much of a choice to play it on the safe side after releasing a console that was 7 years late to the party. You can't expect something like that to sell well.
2 Like Nintendo doesn't just use their existing franchises for no reason. And the ones they reuse are done so for a reason.
The original Mario game was not much different from many other games of the era. Random, bizarre characters is nonsensical worlds fighting inexplicable enemies by means no one really understood.
BUT it was a hit and became a cultural icon. So when Nintendo had an idea for a very DIFFERENT game they decided to use the existing characters from Mario Bros. This was Mario Bros. 2.
Using an existing IP does two important things. It attracts people who enjoyed the previous games to give it a try, and secondly, is allows people to skip the formalities of introduction because people are already familiar with the characters and settings.
Establishing a NEW IP is very difficult. A completely new set of characters and worlds means that you have to sell the game literally from the box art. If people have never heard of it, there is a lot of hesitation to invest in it.
Also, once they start playing, you have to draw them in to your game world relying on only that which you can show in that game. (We've all heard stories of characters and stories that get cut from a game during production. Sometime those things are the key points to selling the story or world.)
Nintendo knows all this and they have carefully branded their franchises to accommodate (almost) any type of game platform they can come up with.
2D platformer? Mario or Donkey Kong.
3D platformer? Mario or Donkey Kong.
Racing game? F-Zero.
A more casual racing game? Mario.
Exploration adventure? Zelda.
Time traveling game? Zelda.
Ocean sailing game? Zelda.
Board game? Mario.
Sports game? Mario.
Tropical resort cleaning simulator? Mario.
A game where you can jump into people's dreams? Mario.
A game with a haunted mansion? Luigi.
Turn based strategy game? Fire Emblem.
Real time strategy gardening game? Pikmin.
Space combat? Star Fox, Kid Icarus or Metroid.
Sci-fi shooter? Metroid.
Archery game? Zelda.
Monster catching? Pokemon.
Random dungeon game? Pokemon.
Virtual pet game? Pokemon.
Card game? Pokemon.
Nature photography game? Pokemon.
Game where a bunch of random characters try and beat each other off cliffs with random weapons? All of the above.
Virtual theme park? All of the above.
Nintendo doesn't really care about new franchises as much as they do about new games. They try out concepts that no one has tried before or they put spins on old ideas to make them new. They just pick one of their established brands to make that game rather than the other way around.
They aren't all successes but I would never accuse Nintendo of not doing anything new.
Im all for making a franchise that is good, but Nintendo cant do anything original anymore and that is a real shame. They used to be the masters of innovating games and creating great games, but now all the have mastered is the art of relying on the same old stuff. So now every year we get are games from them that are pokemon, Zelda, Mario, donkey kong, etc. What was the last original game they made? Steel diver? And it was awful.
Even their hardware is always more of the same with a new coat of paint. Wiiu is a wii with a new controller, the wii was a gamecube with a new controller. 3dsxl is a bigger 3ds, 3ds was a ds lite with a a 3d gimmick, ds lite was a slimmer ds. And everything else are just junk toy peripherals like a plastic steering wheel to put the wiimote in, or a plastic bowling ball to put the wiimote in.
I cut my teeth on Nintendo as a kid and loved them for decades but anymore I simply don't care what they make because its all just new super Mario this, or pokemon that. The only reason I even own a 3ds is because of companies like atlus, and when they get around to the wiiu eventually I might grab one of those.
So the only way to be original is to make a new IP? Last original game they released was HarmoKnight, before that was Pushmo, Xenoblade before that game. Also as a company, what do you do whenver you make an original game, see it get passed up over your established franchises?
So if all Nintendo does is slap a new coat of paint on their consoles (which is BS), then what the hell does Sony/Microsoft do? Actually the 3DS is a much more powerful DS with superior online capabilities, the ability to exchange data with other 3DS through StreetPass, augmented reality, and a more streamlined online store. The Wii U is also a far more powerful system than the Wii, with a controller that streamlines many features that were pretty annoying to use on consoles (like typing), a fully fleshed out social network and also an improved online store. So how is that "the same with a new coat of paint?"
2 Like I agree with new innovations I suppose, but I don't want to live in a world where there isn't going to ever be a new Zelda or Mario game. It just wouldn't feel right
nintendo telling us what we want rather than listening to what the AMERICAN consumer wants...thats the crux of this article.
Fanboy apologists allowing themselves to get tea bagged ...thats the crux of the comments section here
2 Like Lol, the American consumer? The average American consumer has made it clear that they don't give a damn about creativity and innovation, they just care about what the media hypes up and what "everyone else is playing." Not exactly a crowd you want to listen to, unless you want to go out of business that is.
@abHS4L88 @racerxgundam games like Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite and soon Beyond or Last of Us are amazing games, with quality... nintendo fans are so blind with their mario and zeldas that they are the ones destroying any future for Wii U, they dont support anything than the same fn games for the past 20 years over and over again.
@gamervipchile @abHS4L88 @racerxgundam Games like Tomb Raider, Bioshock Infinite and Last of Us are amazing games. Which of these games are an absolute financial hit ? Oh right, Call of Duty. Quality games are not what your average American wants. There's a reason why shows like Jersey Shores are so popular. I'm not a big fan of Nintendo, but they shouldn't try to cater to the American public.
1 Like @gamervipchile
Lol, who's blind? There's a reason why Mario and Zelda games are constantly supported, because they're constantly of high quality and Nintendo does an excellent job of keeping them relevant. Tomb Raider died off for a while because the developers failed to keep the franchise strong, which thankfully Crystal Dynamics did an excellent job of rebooting. Also to add to your "blindness" you're calling The Last of Us an amazing game with quality, problem is the game isn't even out yet. While I have no doubts that game will be amazing, to make such a statement of a game that isn't out yet just proves where your mindset is.
I do agree that many Nintendo fans need to branch out and at least support Nintendo's other efforts. I mean, Zelda wasn't even one of the first Nintendo franchises I experienced, my first Zelda game that I beat was Skyward Sword (which I absolutely loved), even Mario, I haven't had that much experience with. If we want to see more F-Zero, StarFox and more new IPs, everyone needs to stop focusing on the obvious games and start supporting the "hidden gems."
@gamervipchile You seem to be just as blind since the first two games you mentioned are sequels, basically a rehashing of an IP. Zombie U is a new IP, but was it a system seller? No because only die-hard Nintendo supporters have any interest in the system, even if it was stocked with nothing but new IP's. Those are same people who abandoned Nintendo, but still have a Wii in their home. Nintendo is about innovation, and new IP's don't spell innovation.
2 Like Why should Nintendo focus solely on U.S. consumers? They have an established fan base worldwide.
It makes sense for Nintendo fans to be supportive of the decision to mainly stick with existing franchises. Most people who would rather have the opportunity to frequently try out new IPs would have abandoned ship a long time ago, right?
2 Like I agree with the man.
People think that having a new poster boy automatically means innovation. It really doesn't, look at the FPS market.
Nintendo still attracts fans by having the regular poster boys, but the games themselves do change.
I think new IPs are needed because not everyone likes Mario and Link, but that doesn't mean they are stagnant.
Pokemon, for example, IS suffering from stagnation and deterioration ( Have you seen the new Mewtwo?! WHAT THE FUCK). I guess we'll have to wait for Pokemon X and Y to see if the psuedo-3D transition makes an actual difference.
Silly, Cheap, Unoriginal... come on Nintendo! The times we live in, no one has money to draw up new character designs and franchises and to see what works and doesn't anymore because no one has money to spend nor the time to buy and play new things, that's why you rely on returning them!
Oh and those Franchises just want to die if they are 'returning' them. Just a clear sign that Nintendo is dying in America or Europe!
Nintendo is going to come back months or 2 years later and say something like 'Kirby didn't sell in America, so we're not releasing it here' and then people are going to complain about that because not enough people in America didn't buy the game!
3 Like You mean like, if it's not broke, don't fix it? Or, we have made a ton of money in the past off multiple games from these franchises, so why should we slow down? However, I am one who thinks they need some new shit, for sure. Just try and find a balance somewhere Nintendo.
6 Like I like how so many ppl hate nintendo when they clearly havent played a nintendo game.. especially the newer ones.. to those to say nintendo is not creative, games like the new luigi's mansion, super mario 3d land, galaxy etc are hallmarks of innovation and creativity..
if you had taken the time to play the game instead of whining at the name on the label you would have seen why we love nintendo.. they might give us the same IPs.. but there is enough innovation in the gameplay for it to be fresh for us.. true nintendo doesnt release new IPs.. but then nintendo also does not release
- games which are incomplete/broken on release
- games which are complete rip offs of older ones (haters will disagree with this statement, but play the game.. then talk)
- no hidden on-disk dlcs.. scratch that.. limited or no dlc.. what you get is teh complete game.. no ripping off the customer in form of dlc.
- no yearly releases of same game.. mario got 3 releases on wii (galaxy 1, 2 and new super mario bros.. thats the same as uncharted franchise on the PS3, zelda got 2, and one was a gamecuber game re-release with motion controls)
- no ridiculous online only requirement for any of their games. single player focused.. and probably the only company still interested in local multiplayer
2 Like Don't forget tacked on "padding" to add "value" to their games such as online multiplayer (I get it some games have amazing online multiplayer but for the most part, it's just a tacked on feature to make up for the short single player) and achievements/trophies. I seriously remember hearing reviews stating that some games had "value" despite being like less than 10 hours long because there were a lot of achievements to unlock. Really? Give me unlockable characters or new items, extra stages, not some virtual scoring system that's supposed to make you look like a badass at videogames. You know something's wrong with your system when you have gamers playing horrible games just to raise their gamerscore.
The only thing is that they do make new IPs and much more frequently than people realize, problem is they largely go unnoticed, the last major new IP that gained a lot of attention (despite it selling less than 1m) was Xenoblade but I believe at least 2 (or 4 if you count published games) new IPs came out from Nintendo since then.
2 Like @abHS4L88 @voljin1987 slightly off-topic but related to your post on game times..
i will forever be surprised that metal gear solid 4 (a 10-12 hr game in which you spend 70-80% time watching some cutscene or the other) got a perfect 10, the same as mario galaxy 2 which in contrast has almost nil cutscenes.. you compare a 15-20 hr incredibly creative game with a 4 hr game "brown" looking game (hey u can use camo to make snake look brown too, i mean WOW) padded with cutscenes to make it longer and give both a 10 stating they are hallmarks of gaming..
No intention to start a flame war here.. but IMHO MGS4 is 4/10 and Mario galaxy 2 is deserving of that 10/10
But ofc haters who havent really played the game diss galaxy as a rip-off of a previous mario and place MGS 4 on a pedestal and worship it literally..
We have seen articles of both miyamoto and of kojima.. ppl idolize kojima when his claim to fame has been one franschise (mgs) and the only changes in the formula is more polygons and higher textures.. (MGS3 was the best MGS for me.. you know why.. coz it had gameplay > cutscenes)
on the other hand miyamoto has literally birthed nintendo.. every game he works on is artistic, creative and brimming with creativity.. and he gets so much hate.. all because of a label on the game being either mario or a zelda
1 Like @voljin1987
Never played MSG4 so I can't really say anything about the game but I do think reviewers nowadays place more weight on the overall experience of the game instead of the actual value of the game, which is fine if you're a wealthy gamer who can purchase pretty much whatever game you want but that's not the case for a great deal of us. Any game (regardless of how great it is) is not worth full retail price if it's less than 20 hours to me, unless it's a game that I'm going to love replaying repeatedly.
It's funny that people say Nintendo's not creative and can't come up with new ideas yet they've managed to keep about a dozen franchises relevant and of high quality for 1-2 decades, something most developers struggle to just do with one franchise for more than 5 years. These "gamers" are too stupid and ignorant to realize how much creativity and innovative thinking it takes to keep a franchise fresh and modern while retaining the personality of the franchise. It's actually much easier to just come up with a brand new IP because there are basically no restrictions to what you can make.
This is a very elegant way to say "We always play it safe". Personally, I'd like Nintendo to be as bold on their franchises as they're on hardware. Mario and Zelda are great, but please come up with something new!!
The problem is whenever they do, it gets largely unnoticed and when sales come back and Nintendo sees that not that many people are paying attention to their new IPs compared to Mario and Zelda, what are they going to do as a company? There actually have been several new IPs come out from Nintendo in the past few years yet we still keep hearing people say that they never make new IPs.
1 Like Nintendo sticks with the franchises they feel are most susceptible to being made relevant by gameplay enhancements. F-Zero was sort of timestamped to its own era when it was released - a turbo-speed hovercar racing game. It would probably be difficult to make certain franchises feel modern in today's world of hardass protagonists. The proof is in the pudding - Nintendo has periodically tested the waters by releasing sequels to their lesser-known franchises in past generations. But apparently, the fans don't want those franchises, because they sell very little when Nintendo takes the gamble and releases one. Imagine Star Tropics, if you will. How could you make an adventure game about a treasure-hunting ginger school kid NOT seem like pure early 1990's storytelling?
2 Like There's a difference though with what Nintendo does with their franchise vs what call of duty, and assassins creed does. I have no idea what it is, but its just something I sense and feel,.. Like they have a reverence for links heritage, star fox's adventures, and the fact that you can have any kind of game and add Mario and his family as if they are friends ou grew up with. I don't feel exploited when they announce their new game, they also don't shove millions of dollars in my face every iteration telling me to buy their game because they don't have any other ideas for original content, netendo let's their games exist as is.
@DevilD2005Nintendo is like my gaming rock. I depend on them to retain their style and characters while I get my more modern fixes from pc and ps3 (and now Wii U). DevilD2005 said it best.
That being said, I am somewhat disappointed by the news that the first original 3ds zelda is taking place in alltp's game world. I like having all-new worlds to explore in new zelda games, and even though I love Link to the Past as much as anyone, nostalgia simply failed to overwhelm my functional disappointment at seeing the same game world I've explored a zillion times appear in a new Zelda game. To me, there is only one way for this new Zelda to completely redeem itself, and that's if the game places after Link's Awakening in the timeline and thus has connections to that vastly superior game in storytelling and presentation.
2 Like what nintendo is going to do in order to make something completely new, and never before seen is they are going to make a game called the Legend of Peach where the mario characters play in their own world with a complete zelda like gameplay experience. then they are going to make a New Super Link where all the "Links" from the different Link timelines play in the world of hyrule with a complete mario like gameplay experence. then they are going to make a legend of zelda game in mario's world and a new super mario game in links world.
1 Like @xolivierx @danusty a black man with a deep voice, black sun glasses and a black trench coat offered me 2 mushrooms, the typical red one and a blue one. since he didn't offer me the best one, the green one, I went with the one I never had before, the blue one. so to answer your question, it was 1 I had.
1 Like Nintendo sticks with Mario and Zelda because they're an easy cash in and it's all Nintendo has become anymore:not innovative- repetitive, that's their motto I guess.
8 Like Yet their franchises have remained relevant, fresh and of high quality for this long. We've seen franchises that were HUGE hits but due to the developer's failure to change things up with the franchise and make it fresh, it died out within a decade or less, yet Mario and Zelda are over 2 decades old and many others that are still around and popular are around 10-20 years old. How come they've managed to achieve this success with around a dozen franchises when most developers can barely do it with one? Learn what innovation means because I think WAY too many of you "gamers" have forgotten (or never even knew) what it means.
6 Like @BloodyAura Do you know how you get easy cash? By making games that sell. How do games sell? People like them. But wait!! That goes against their motto!
1 Like Maybe it's my imagination but it does seems like Nintendo is either running low on ideas or terrified of change. They keep plugging the classics with a facelift and a few tweaks. It's kinda disappointing that this is the direction they are taking. Nintendo is a long way from the supremacy it once had but it's not dead yet. I have hope for the future of the wii U.
1 Like Are you doing this on purpose or do you seriously lack any sort of comprehension skills?
In the other thread, the person was talking about why Nintendo doesn't get penalized for relying on same franchises but other developers do and I stated that aside from Square's Final Fantasy, nearly all the other developers hardly do much to change up their franchises.
While this one is a bit more obscure, it's easy to see what I'm talking about, because if you pay attention to which developers aren't supporting the Wii U currently, they're all large American developers, yet the Wii U has pretty strong support from Japanese, European and Indie developers, so clearly anyone who says that the Wii U has no 3rd party support thinks that only American developers matter, no one else.
Also I accidentally deleted my comment.
@abHS4L88 @GotBanFromGS Dude... Agnis cant run on WiiU... its not just the west Japanese devs also need to put food on the table you know and these educated people making our games get an education to make a living in the games field. Nintendo has no 3rd party support do to its weak hardware and crappy screen pad which no one wanted and even Nintendo came out and said that yet they still tried to shove it down people's mouths.
Mess up... but yeah dude this article is about Nintendo as a 1st party dev which is more of a big deal than a 3rd party putting the same thing out since people buy their consoles for their 1st part and are expecting new things they are not meeting demands and are not selling any consoles.
I really see no reason to compare this to SE and other third party at all because we are talking about Nintendo and their lack creativity and respect for what little fans they have left.
1 Like Yep, I was right, you have no comprehension skills. Got proof that Agni's Philosophy can't run on the Wii U? If Unreal Engine 4 games can be ported to the Wii U, same with Agni's Philosophy. No 3rd party support? So you don't consider Capcom, Namco-Bandai, Activison, Ubisoft, Atlus, Mistwalker, WB, Platinum Games, Square-Enix, and the hordes of Indie developers as 3rd parties? Let me guess, the only ones that matter to you are the ones that make your favorite games and nothing else? Even Value stated that they have more interest in Nintendo's next gen than Sony and Microsoft, due to their way of approaching console hardware. When did they say that no one wanted the GamePad? I love how you guys assume that just because it's something that you think is dumb, that the rest of the world MUST agree with you.
I was responding to someone else's comment, whether or not they were on topic, I don't care (which they were but you obviously cannot tell), I gave them a response. Lol, yes they lack creativity, yet they've managed to keep more than a dozen franchises relevant, fresh, and of high quality for over a decade (some 2 decades), that totally doesn't require any sort of creativity or innovation. Also I don't know where you get that they don't respect their fans since they're really the only major developer/publisher left that doesn't push "padding" like online multiplayer, achievements/trophies, and DLC (sure they use DLC, but it's never required to get the full experience of the game, unlike many other developers).
1 Like Hey! It's me(eeh) (cough cough cough)... (cough) Mario... (are we still recording? because my head fucking hurts!)
1 Like @meatz666 with this kind of attitude towards such a beloved franchise ..you sir are a disgrace to gamers and Nintendo doesn't need a nitwit like yourslef!!
1 Like @cesarexec22 @meatz666 As if it's taboo to dislike Mario. Not everybody is supposed to like Mario you know. I used to own both a NES/SNES for 3rd party games, not Mario & Zelda, because I don't like em. BTW there's nothing wrong with the guy's comment making fun of Mario, it's not as if he's talking about your mother, you're the disgrace because you're making it seem as if Nintendo & their fans speaks for the entire industry, ha please.
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