Mass Effect 3 adopting Kinect control?

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

Mass Effect 3 is going to rock!

say what?

If there is a god out there he will not allow this to happen

@Doson1 Is that the best I can do? Since you seem to like questioning intelligence, I'm going to question your age. And just because you lack the imagination or foresight does not somehow make the point invalid. You made a bold assertion without considering possibilities and you ate your words. Simple as that. You only reached a compromise after a fair amount of arguing and even then you didn't seem to believe in it. Yeah, I did find it eventually. It was sandwiched between insults so, unlike you, I can admit fault there. At worst, we're both hypocrites though expecting me to read through your childish behavior is hardly fair. Paying attention to an argument is important but paying attention to someone's insults isn't unless that's how you measure your manliness. I don't know. On the subject of mistakes? Yes, yes of course. You thought it'd be dumb down until proven wrong. Which is the case. You were proven wrong so what's your point? "I didn't say it would, I said I thought I would"? That's essentially the same damn thing. This whole argument stems from your assertion that there are true fans and there are not. I'm glad you're finally coming back to that. But. . From the tone of your voice on those messages, from what I remember, was hardly "lightly". You were shouting into the mic about true fans. You sounded quite serious and intense on the issue.

@Doson1 According to your post, these people are selfish and not true fans on the simple fact that they are open and interested. Because true fans would only expect the kinect to replace the game pad and thus dumb down the game. The killer is, as of right now, you're now ignoring you even made these remarks.Well, not so much ignoring but doing a 180. Suddenly you're a true fan who is open to the idea of kinect. So either I'm being flamed in which case, oh oh oh, jokes on me. Ha ha ha. Or. Well, I shudder to think of the other possibility. But it's cool. An adamant kinect critic has begrudgingly accepted the merits of Kinect used in a "core" game. I'll happily take that. If nothing else, I can take that away from this.That a "supposed" hardcore realizes the Kinect doesn't dumb down everything it touches (because according to you, a true fan has to assume as much).

@Doson1 "A true Mass Effect fan would not want Kinect support in this game. They would assume that the game would be dumbed down to accomadate it. If using a standard controller does not appeal to someone, they should play a different game. If I don't like a particular games gameplay, I'm not going to expect the developers to change it; to cater to me. The people who do are selfish. The people who want Kinect support in this game are selfish." This is your original post, Doson. You made some bold assumptions here, the initial one being the one that touched off this debate. 1.) That there is a thing called true fans 2.) That no true fan would want any kinect support at all 3.) Kinect only effects/replaces the physical gamepad (which we now know otherwise and what a lot of people hoped for which leads to. . ) 4.) Anyone wanting kinect support is selfish 5.) The inclusion of kinect would dumb down the game Now, ignoring that you defeat your own argument in this single post, you didn't even touch on the kinect doing something else or expecting it to. And you were essentially responding to people who were saying "I'm fine with the kinect as long as it doesn't ruin the whole experience" or "if the kinect can be implemented without dumbing down the game then I'd be cool" and "I'm curious to see how they'd implement kinect".

@Doson1 But the game is not the same because you can now use voice recognition. That changes how you can play the game if you have the kinect peripheral. The game has been effected, granted in a small way but it's different due to kinect and it still supports kinect which you were opposed to until they announced it. You thought it? Oh, thank goodness I'm a trained telepathy able to read your mind and I'm so glad we're resting your entire argument on flimsy "implication". I went back and read your posts. Implied? No. They were just vague rants on core and casual. Your entire argument started out as "a true fan does not want kinect support" which reads "you're not a fan of this game if you want kinect in it" and continued with "Kinect is casual, Mass Effect is core and the two should not mix". And now they are mixing and you're fine with it.That would be another example of hypocrisy. What points? At this point, you don't have a good one. You're copying the accusations leveled at you and pointing them back at me in some half-arsed attempt to try and discredit my argument but it doesn't work because you're doing a bad job of it. I already explained why I wasn't and you were but then you argue that I'm missing the point? Are you twelve? I feel like I'm arguing with a child that just goes "la la la la" with his hands over his ears.

@Doson1 Actually, uh, it DOES effect gameplay. Just not in a negative way, which you assumed it would. I don't remember (but I could be mistaken) you ever saying "I don't mind Kinect if it doesn't ruin the core gameplay". Your stance had been, as far as I could tell, "kinect has no place in Mass Effect and I hope it's not included". Which, as of right now, we both know it is. The people you were responding to were saying "I wouldn't mind Kinect if it didn't ruin core gameplay" to which you responded by suggesting that they weren't fans for considering kinect in the game. No where in that did you leave room for interpretation. And there's a difference between you and me in that no where have I asserted that fandom was an exclusive or specific thing reserved for the diehard. All I have done is informed you that anyone can be a fan and it's wrong to suggest that there are "true fans". Which, by the way, implies there are "fake fans" or "disingenuous fans" (and who judges that?). So, really, what I'm saying is not hypocritical. Nevermind that what I gave was the textbook definition of a "fan". It's not me telling you what a fan is, it's the english language. A dictionary. The only fool here is you.

@Doson1 Okay, let me put this very simply and plainly so you can understand: It. Is. Not. Your. Place. To. Decide. Who. Is. A. Fan. That's it. You are not the boss of fandom, you are not the leader of Mass Effect fans. You are just a fan, no more or less than Angel or myself. You're not any "truer" than the rest of us. And it amazes me how quick you change your tune. Suddenly you go from "NO KINECT AT ALL IT'S CASUAL" to "the way they do it is cool and a worthwhile addition". You had just got done telling me how the game shouldn't change and suddenly it takes a big change with Kinect and suddenly you're okay with it? That's hypocrisy.

@Ang3lman I can appreciate you trying to be some neutral third party and arbitrator but is there really a point? You aren't actually adding anything, either. Are you familiar with the expression of adding fuel to the fire? I figure it's something you'd know but apparently the message is lost. Nevermind. I haven't any ill will toward Doson and I can aprpeciate his intense fandom. I'm more than happy to carry on this discussion here for as long as he wishes to reply. He seemed eager, to the point of sending 7 r 8 (since I apparently cannot exaggerate) voice messages to me from out of the blue on live And yes, I'm sure we can make assumptions like "most" instead of "all". All I'm trying to do is point out that his logic was flawed (not to mention his original post defeated its own argument) and that the idea of a "true fan" was ridiculous and pretentious. Yes, some fans are more intense than others but that doesn't necessarily make them better. Anyway, it's moot at this point because Kinect has been confirmed for Mass Effect 3. We will see if Doson remains a "true fan" after this.

With regard to AncientDozer's rationale... Buddy it seems like you just like arguing with people over phraseology. I recall learning early in school that nothing is "always" something. There are an infinite amount of extenuating circumstances and unique cases. So any question on a test that says something is "always" or "never" something else, is impossible and therefore wrong. You seem to have taken this philosophy to heart. Maybe it would palliate your frustration to hear Doson1 say that rather than speaking for "all" fans, he feels that he is speaking on behalf of "most" fans. Fans being biasly defined as people who are familiar enough with *All* of Mass Effect (as opposed to having only played the second game and basing their opinions on it exclusively) to, for example, know immediately what I am talking about when I mention "The Thorian," and "We're going to need bigger guns." (granted, to say that people who don't know are not Mass Effect fans may be harsh, but there is no denying that it's true)

To reference for the sake of comparison, AncientDoser's post @ 2:32 pm ET: *devoted fan of Mass Effect: A individual who has spent an obscenely massive (some may even say unhealthy) amount of time playing both games. This equates to exceeding at least 70 hours per "Shepard" on ME1 and somewhere just short of 30 for ME2. Playing each class and specialization, as both male and female, as paragon and renegade, on both the Xbox 360 version and the PC, for both ME1 and ME2 (6 Classes x 2 morality options{conjoined with Specialization} = 12, x 2 genders = 24, x 2 games = 48, x 2 platforms = 96, 96 "Shepards" between the two games). This includes collecting all gear (armor, weapons, and upgrades for Shepard and complete squad) in at least 1 playthrough for each game, completing all hidden missions, hearing all dialogue in both games (no easy feat), finding all elements (in ME2 this means mining every planet........every..single..planet....) and of course completing every achievement, in both the games, for both platforms.

@AncientDozer & Doson1 I've read all of both of your posts. From the individual perspective of a devoted* fan, It really does look like you two are arguing circles around each other. You're both "mincing" words and one of you isn't even getting their point across. I'm not here to get into an extended forum debate, I simply think that the amount of disdain you two seem to have for each other is drawing you both off-point. My assumption (which is mine and I'm not claiming that the majority of other thread viewers share it) is that Doson's original rationale was that inclusion of Kinect features to Mass Effect 3 would inadvertently lead to core aspects of the game to be tailored towards a new inexperienced audience, as opposed to being designed around the expectation that the players of the game were experienced in the Mass effect world, in RPG genre games, and in Third Person Shooters. In the same way that certain people prefer DOS over a user-friendly UI, there is an understated loss to "the feeling of accomplishment" when something can be done by anyone, as opposed to when it can be done only by people who have picked up the skills necessary to complete "said something" through years of experience. In consideration of this mindset, I would have to agree with Doson. I (personally) feel that the inclusion of Kinect in ME3 will inadvertently demolish the "i have to know what I'm doing to get through this" feeling conveyed by the game, which is something I loved in the original.

@Doson1 And no, you don't get the analogy at all. It's highlighting the ridiculousness of this point of view you have. You're just like those people who support specific pairings and rage if anyone suggest a different pairing. Instead of "I like this pairing and anyone who likes a different pairing is terrible and not true fan", it's "I like this game mechanic more and anyone who likes something different (for instance kinect functionality) is stupid". And I use it because I assumed you'd be less attached to fanfiction to understand and see the folly of that behavior. And yes you did attack the Kinect. Of course you don't see it that way, though, and neither of us should be surprised. You're sitting smug on your little chair convinced of your rightness. You wouldn't recognize that you're actually condescending to the kinect and the casual gamer in the way you talk. And the easiest way to tell is that you believe it's inherently casual only when it has the potential for other things. If Steel Battalion, Child of Eden, Codename Draco, and Project D all pan out, what then? These by all rights have the hallmarks of supposed "core" games? But going back to the point at hand, you were attacking people interested or curious to see kinect in Mass Effect insisting that they AREN'T True Fans which is, well, rude and condescending.

@Doson1 Not true at all. To suggest that ALL fans who love the first game also like the RPG elements? That's called generalization, Doson. You're again assuming that your sub group of fans holds more weight and credence than any other group. I say sub group because we are obviously not the same sort of fan. And you are a hypocrite because you wish change in a game even though it's their product when you have insisted that whatever Bioware decides is right and the fans have to live with it. And that they shouldn't have to change it for anyone. Yet here you, insisting fans want change and that Bioware should listen to them. What if a majority of fans wanted kinect in a numbered version of Mass Effect? Should bioware listen? Is the majority or the minority more important? Or is it a case of who is more vocal? Doson, this is not about what actual or rumored changes to the game; I don't care about that so much because I have modest faith in Bioware that they'll make intelligent decisions (that's not to say they are perfect as they've blundered plenty in the past but so far I like what I've seen). This discussion is about your narrow view of fandom where you see it as an almost strict guideline/checklist that you have to meet before being considered a fan. Excuse me, in your words a "true fan" which is the crux of the issue.

commander sheppard with kinect??

@Doson1 You clearly missed the point of the fanfiction example but whatever. You've missed several of my points so you're not actually reading what I'm saying. It's no skin off my back. Let me point out a bit of your hypocrisy, by the way. "Hopefully Bioware brings back more of the RPG elements like they said they will." Here you are hoping they do something for YOU. It's up to Bioware what they do, you say, but here you are second guessing them and hoping for something. How is that any different from hoping Kinect is in there (which again, no one has suggested; they've merely been open to the possibility and for that you question their fandom)? What if Bioware decides to have Kinect in Mass Effect. What if it's required. Oops. I guess you can't question their decisions or make suggestions as it's their game after all. And I guess you'll have to find a new game according to your bizarre logic. Or would you suck it up as the "true fan" you claim to be and give it a chance? I'm curious. Why, I'm surprised your still a fan. After all, isn't Mass Effect 2 "dumbed down" from Mass Effect 1? Aren't they "dumbing". You wanted all those RPG elements that they took out and it looks like they may streamline. . excuse me. . dumb it down again for 3 and make it more like an action packed TPS.

@Doson1 What's the line, then? Where does fandom begin and end? How do you know? I post on mass effect forums regularly but don't have all the achievements yet I love the franchise and I've played both games. My friend who has never posted on a single forum yet loves 2 and has gotten every achievement for it and also bought all the DLC. Another has played both games and is looking forward to 3 but has barely gotten any achievements and never bothered with the DLC. Another likes only the story but hates the mechanics. Another doesn't really care about the story but likes power gaming through it. Who is more a fan here? Where is the line? There isn't any. We're all fans in our own way enjoying a product we spent good money on. Be it the story, the game play, or even graphics. But you? You aren't concerned at all with the actual game. I can tell because you're using the same tired arguments that are constantly used here and elsewhere. "True fan"? "I'm speaking facts, you're not"? Facts? I'm sorry, since when is your opinion fact. Your voice gives it away in that irritated, obsessive tone. You only care about being right and that your idealized caricaturization of the game is the only one. I don't even have kinect but I'm defending its merits. You're just senselessly bashing and attacking it and people who support it.

Wonder the gaming experience with Kinect.

I say go ahead and throw motion control in the game so long as the players who have bought the first two games aren't forced to buy the motion control systems [Kinect/Move]. The way i see it, there isn't anything wrong with experimentation and trying new features but not at the expense of gameplay and most definitely not in the middle of a major series like this, at least if they do this give people a choice......

@Doson1 I'm flattered, by the way, that you sent me twenty messages on live. I don't understand why you were compelled to track down my gamer tag but if you think that helps. Look, I understand. I was like you once. I believed that only my views on a game matter because I felt that my opinion best represented everyone elses. It's just like shipping in fan fiction and one true pairings. Are you familiar? It's where you pick one romantic pairing, real or imagined, from a series and devote yourself to that to such a point that you attack other people who have one of the characters in your one true pairing with someone else. You find it offensive and tell those other people that if they're wrong and that they should go somewhere else. But you have to grow up eventually and realize the game belongs to anyone willing to put down $50-$70 (or pirate but that's a whole other can of worms). If they like that game and become enthusiastic for it, they are a fan. There's no real guideline for "fandom", just for clubs of fans. But otherwise being a fan as a whole is not some inclusive thing where only a select few go. To believe otherwise is childish. A person who loves Mass Effect or, really, whatever game and would like to see kinect is just as much a fan as someone who likes that game but doesn't want Kinect. Now, whether or not Kinect'll work with Mass Effect is a whole other argumen. The only issue I have with you is your narrow and pretentious idea of what a fan is.

@Doson1 I did read your post. Every single bit and I found it to be the same trite nonsense that Republicans spewed whenever anyone questioned George Bush. "If you don't like our President, get out of the country!" Now, obviously we're talking about videogames so it's not quite as severe or life changing. However, it still oozes with that kind of obnoxious elitism where the person doesn't even realize it; they just think they're talking for 'the people' when they're just talking for themselves. You're no less selfish than the people you accuse. In fact, I'd say more so since you and people like you are campaigning so fervently against a rumor. A rumor! It's probably a hoax and yet you lash out at the mere mention and anyone who even seems remotely interested. That's selfish. Not to mention your stubborn refusal to acknowledge the kinect as anything but "casual" garbage. Because that's how it is around here. So-called "hardcores" see themselves as all that matters. No one here has asked that Kinect be included, like you seem to think. They were only interested in the rumor and curious like myself. And none of us should have to be labeled as "not fans" because you don't like our point of view.

Is kinect even possible for ME 3, I really doubt that. I mean c'mon, what kind of dumb kinect funtion will BioWare make for ME 3, it'll be a waste of money if they even try it!

it would be quite cool to use kinect to make a sheperd that looks like you. otherwise i'm not sure how they could implement it, possibly as part of the conversation system. I am just hoping that there can be good core gamers for kinect, although it never really happened for the wii

Would not be surprised that if this is true its only something minor, as it says better with Kinect, meaning u can still do it with a controller, all i care about is as long as it dont effect the final product then frankly who cares

2Doson1 Mass effect never been a hardcore. The challenge to player in Mass effect 1 > Mass effect 2, and i'm afraid will be > Mass effect 3. But i hope that mistaken.

@Default_Usernam Dude, that's just to hilarious!!

@AncientDozer well said man well said if you think you like something more than the next person you are living out of the realm of realism you know how many people are fans of ME there are, so yea no way any1 is greater then the next unless you carved all the characters in your back with a knife even then your not a "true fan" as it was put thats just means you need some major help. I agree 100% Dozer

@Doson1 A true fan would never be so arrogant as to proclaim what "true fans" want. Seriously, "true fan"? Who says that? That's arrogant, that's selfish. It's pretentious and I can't believe you would play that. Listen. There's no such thing as a "true fan". If you like something, you are a fan. If you are enthusiastic for something, you are a fan. Perhaps even an intense fan. You, however, are no more or less entitled than the next guy over who happens to be a fan. You are no more or less a fan than the next guy over even if you have more collectibles, signatures, and limited edition stuff. We are all fans, we are all entitled, and we all have a right to enjoy something the way we want to. To say otherwise is lower than low. So, hey, step away for a moment and realize this game isn't just for you and yours.

Please don't add Kinect achievements and don't compromise game features for it, Then I'm cool

Oh god please no. I refuse to let this happen. I'm tired of all this movement crap. I don't enjoy feeling like a retard holding a fake gun and fake running ): normal controller ftw

I hope it won't happen. I'll boycott BioWare if that happens.

Oh dear God NO!

As long as its nothing vital or takes away from the quality Bioware puts into the rest of the game it shouldn't be much of a problem

Adult scenes using the Kinect... XD

Woo, more BioWare fail

@smbius Because people are selfish. They think it's THEIR game and that THEY know what is best for it, not the developers or millions of other fans out there. Realistically, only a sparse few strongholds of "diehard/hardcore" gamers despise the kinect. The rest, I feel, are indifferent, curious, or enthusiastic; it is a solid peripheral with an extreme amount of potential assuming they figure out some standards and conventions.

Here's the thing though, no matter how you feel about kinect, are there really going to be enough people who would not have bought this game at first, but will now buy it because it has kinect to justify the cost of including it? I don't think so, and I don't think it should be included.

Long as they don't edit the game to make the kinect work I'm all for it because those people with Kinects deserve some love, but if they're going to screw it up and damage the game just to try to get a gimmick to work then they need to stop and back up.

Kinect works after a delay... Therefore it's probably only gonna work with turn-based games and dance central.

@Wellk Its not a partnership, EA OWN Bioware. End Of. ______________________________________________________ If this is true, I am betting the kinect will be used to select options in dialogue, not used in combat which just would not work.

Nobody knows how Kinect is going to be used. And even if it's true, it's still only optional. So what is the big deal?

That news is scare me. Because, attempt to kinnect integration can lead to simplification of combat system. Farewell tactics and any way of thinking.

I don't think anybody has the right to complain about the inclusion of Kinect support. First off, people (myself included) paid $150 for the Kinect and so far we've been dumped on in terms of game support. The inclusion of Kinect support would give gamers an excuse to blow off the dust and use it again. Secondlyly, it's not optional. It would still support controllers 100% of the way and it would work just as well as it always have. Having the Kinect is simply a little diversion to change things up a bit. Personally I think this is how every game should be on 360. No required support, but optional support that gives Kinect owners the choice of using the Kinect if they so choose. PSMove is doing it, so I don't see why 360 won't.

whatever you do please don't ruin the FRANCHISE !!!

Everyone is quick to denounce, I don't have a Kinect so I won't use this feature but it might be pretty cool if done properly.

I think that the kinect support is optional, given Mass Effect 3 being a multiplatform game. If it's not then I'll just play the PC or PS3 version.

LOL i can say only this, serious kinnect and mass effect 3 so stupid idea ;D