BioWare defends day-one Mass Effect 3 DLC

@simon1812 Indeed, That would made things alot better

If people would stop paying for day 1 DLC and collector's editions to get stuff they SHOULD be getting with the game they are already paying 60 dollars for, then maybe companies like EA wouldn't keep taking advantage of their customers and laughing all the way to the bank while doing so. As long as day 1 DLC keeps selling, companies will continue to release partial games and fill in the rest of the game for players only after they pay more for what should have come with the game on release.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8&feature=g-all-lik&context=G23c9f1eFAAAAAAAAOAA

It doesn't matter if it's on the disk or not. That's indicative of the actual problem, but it's not it by itself. We're not stupid. We're not going to let it slide because oh, "It's technically not on the disk." The fact that they began working on it immediately after they finished developing the core game means that it was something that you had in mind from the beginning, or at least something you thought up while still working on it. Our point is, if you thought it up while working on the game, PUT IT IN. We don't mind delays, I wouldn't have. In thinking it up when the game was still being worked on, you envisioned it then as a part of the overall experience that players would encounter when first playing the game, and now we need to pay an extra $10 instead of waiting a little longer for the game.

@HipHopBeats If people wanna blame MOST of it on the developers fine, but as I state in my blog entry, if two of your family members just committed suicide today and your spouse recently left you, I'm not sure even a "greatest game ever made" like Bioshock or Zelda OOT is going to be fun for you. In fact, I'd imagine NOTHING is going to be fun for you under those circumstances, and last I checked, discontent over life issues is not something you can blame developers for. (One should also consider the presence of clinical depression.) As always, this is just my opinion, and I respect your take on this too. :)

@HipHopBeats Even then, I would argue that it's hardly just the actions of the developer that determine a game's reception. I've written an extensive blog post titled "The Blame Game" which explains all the reasons why I think developers shouldn't be automatically blamed for a game's so-called "quality." Anticipation from fans has a tendency to skew adequate interpretations of "quality" and hype--which I believe is as much OUR fault as the industry's--plays a big role too. Just take a look at the Star Wars prequel trilogy. After two decades of anticipation, do any of us really think there was ANY way Lucas would have been able to deliver, especially given that most of us already knew it was going to end with Anakin becoming Darth Vader? Let's be clear: I don't have a problem with people disliking something and voicing their discontent, and if the endings were bad, Bioware should listen to the fans and consider it for next time. What I have a problem with is A) people acting like it's crystal clear WHY they didn't like something, as I believe more often than not there ISN'T an indisputable, clearly provable reason why we do/don't enjoy something, and as such, complaining about it like it's something obvious the developers should have picked up on isn't entirely fair IMO; and B) blaming their discontent solely on the actions of the developer. (TBC)

@HipHopBeats 3) I prefer the title "activist against gamer entitlement." Jennifer Hepler is just the latest side effect of a serious trend in gamer attitudes that I've been fighting for a MUCH longer time. 4) My stance on backlash for the endings? Can't say for sure, but here's my totally unscientific hypothesis for the moment: it shouldn't be that big a deal. Your statement that loyal fans "wasted" hours of playing time for "nothing" oversimplifies what games are supposed to be about. Does a bad ending in Arkham Asylum totally ruin the whole game? How about in Spyro, Super Mario Galaxy, or Ratchet and Clank? Even a game like Kingdom Hearts--story-driven with a confusing ending--can't be adequately judged solely on its ending. Nobody judges the quality of an Oreo cookie solely by the taste of the chocolate wafers cause it's not an Oreo without the creme in the middle. If the fans WERE only playing the game to get a fantastic ending, I'd say they've completely missed the point. It's the fun you have IN BETWEEN that's supposed to mean the most. (Though to be fair, a great ending does sweeten the deal.) And I'd say that the overall product must be pretty good if people stuck around long enough to REACH the end. So I'm not sure how a bad ending is supposed to be an outright condemnation of the entire trilogy. (TBC)

@HipHopBeats First of all, thanks for the previous reply, as it seemed a bit more civil than some of your other responses, though to be fair, I don't know you meant them to be anything BUT civil; I may have just misinterpreted them. I don't have a problem with you voicing your opinion; just wanted to make sure you're giving equal respect to mine. And yeah, I'll admit that even though it's understandable--and I maintain that the incident should have been the headline news it was--that Jennifer Hepler made those comments, it WAS unprofessional and she shouldn't have done it. Now as for your most recent response... 1) I already said that I'm not going to buy Mass Effect 3 anytime soon, nor have I played through the others extensively. Please remember that in future responses, cause I'm NOT "Mr. Mass Effect" and your previous response suggested I've already bought the latest one. 2) I don't like Day 1 DLC. I think it's annoying and IS sort of a slap in the face. But as someone with little knowledge of how to run a business like Bioware's or even develop a game, I'm choosing to take the "innocent until proven guilty" attitude that our courts go by. Considering the number of people trying to say this is a "scam" or a violation of our consumer rights, I'd say that's a legitimate stance to take here. (TBC)

@cachinscythe Ok Mr. Mass Effect, pro day 1 DLC, Jennifer Hepler activist. What is your stance on all the backlash Bioware is catching for the disappointing endings? Are loyal fans in the wrong for complaining about wasting hours (all 3 games) all for nothing?

BULL! They just took an integral part of Mass Effect lore and sold it as DLC. You'd have to be plain stupid to believe that revealing the Protheans was not going to be a part of the main storyline. Either that or the writers are simply garbage but that is not the case. Plot holes are there but none are this obvious. This is the last game I will ever buy from EA and it is only because I want to see the story through the end. And if Bioware continues to partner up with EA then I will never buy any of their titles either. EA is the scum of the gaming industry and I don't need that crap on my hands. I feel bad for the developers that don't make these money grabbing decisions but it must be done.

Many wankers and crybabies here. Grow up gentlemen, life goes on. You won't die with this Day One DLC. Mass Effect has been a prime series throughout. If you don't like it, go sit by the corner and suck your frozen thumb. Cheers.

I think they should have taken those 3 months instead to fix the bugs and glitches already pointed out in the review :D

@Techmaster666 I appreciate your clarification, but I'm still finding a bit of trouble with your reasoning. See, by this logic, it was smart for gamers to read reviews of Dragon Age 2 and then--because they were so positive--buy it. Yet everyone talks about DA2 like it's the worst game Bioware's ever made and a disgrace to their legacy. That's the whole reason I said, "Quality is subjective." For us to try and say there's something wrong with buying ME3 based on hype and fanboyism--and to be fair, I don't think you DID say it was bad; just significant to the discussion--because there's something inherently foolish about that when it's not really any LESS foolish to trust people--who we don't know and can't always trust--to tell us whether the game IS worth it...can you see why that's not really any more or less useful than believing hype? Isn't the logical extension of that, "I will only play something if it's recommended by sites A, B, C, and D? Not to mention that there are many poorly received--or poorly advertised--games that deserve greater attention than they get. By following this ideal of trusting the reviewers, we're saying, "You know what's worthwhile, and if you're not spending time covering something, it's probably a waste of time for us to try it." Granted, that's the logical EXTREME of what you're suggesting. What I think you're REALLY suggesting is a combination of the two: reviews and response to hype. Just trying to get some clarification here.

@cachinscythe Lol, I sent you the link showing you she has no self control> Gamers are indeed hypocrites and the most arrogant, selfish, crybaby, dismissive group of people ever. Despite all of that, Jennifer Hepler still needs to maintain a level of professionalism and she was wrong for letting backlash get the better of her. She is making money off the people she is disrespecting. bottom line, regardless of the insults flung in her direction. Yes, I will buy ME3 when the price drops and the DLC is free. Why come on this board complaining about Day 1 DLC? BECAUSE I CAN. Don't like it? Get over it. Just because someone comments a negative critique about a game or whatever you like doesn't mean they're a troll. It just means that's their opinion. That's cool if you're a hardcore gamer and take this seriously, but understand not everyone shares your views and ideals about what's right and wrong. In a few hours you will be enjoying your copy of ME3 while I'll be viewing the live stream gameplay enjoying from the sidelines. So we both win. :cool:

@cachinscythe: I wrote a general statement, "many games", not only "many yet to be released games". Anyway there's a demo for ME3, you can see for yourself if you like it or not. "ONLY POSSIBLE CONTRIBUTORS", yeah, but only if you buy a game for the name. Quality is subjective... still this site is about giving reviews and scores to games (as well as info and news). You can check reviews, videos (and ofc demos if available) before buying a game. Ofc sometimes you can't if you preorder, but that's mostly for fans (who are likely to buy the game no matter how it is). Buying without knowing what -> advertising/hype sale Buying after reading reviews / trying demos -> effective game sale Wich brings us to "many games sell more thanks to fanboys/advertising/hype than for the game itself". Wich is the reason behind Bioware being able to sell DLC at day 1.

@HipHopBeats (continued) "I'm not buying this until it comes down to $20 and DLC is free with the purchase." Then why are you on this thread complaining? You're saying I have no business commenting because I have no intention of buying ME3 soon, but neither do you, and you're still commentating on this issue. Coming on here and complaining about a game costing $60 when you're not even going to buy it until a year or two later suggests YOU'RE just doing this to have fun too. (Of course, I know you're not. You have an opinion and want to state it. But so do I.) If you don't wanna buy ME3 day one, fine. Nobody has a problem with that. And it'll send a pretty clear message to BIoware. Certainly a MUCH clearer message than coming on this thread and insulting fnaboys and/or whining about the cost of the game at launch. Sorry if I got a little rude. I'm just very passionate about gaming and a very different sort of hardcore gamer. One who is very frustrated with the attitudes and hypocrisy of gamers. Of course, we're ALL hypocrites, but I can at least acknowledge it. I see no similar admission from the masses that claim they love gaming so much but spend no time appreciating the fruits it offers us.

@HipHopBeats (continued) "Does that give devs the right to create to promote scams like day 1 DLC and season passes when they can simply include that in the original release?" Once again, yes. It's their product. They can use it to skydive if they want to. But more importantly, I don't think you know enough about programming or making games to be able to definitively say, "They could have put that data on the disc to begin with." Season passes? Sure, that's something they could do away with, but they were created for a reason, and it's not an entirely malevolent one. Either way, when you hack the game, analyze how much of the disc was used, and can prove there's still room left for the DLC, I'll be happy to accept that vague, unproven statement. "Not everyone can buy DLC or buy every game at launch." And? Is Bioware supposed to bend over backwards to make sure every human being in the US has a chance to play everything they make? Or is it the responsibility of the people who want the product to F-ing EARN it by working extra shifts or saving their money? We're talking about an F-ing video game. It's called a "luxury item" in economics for a reason. And if it's such a big deal, why can't you--and everyone else--just wait for a price drop. One year later everything will cost HALF of what it did. That's called patience. You don't miss out on a season pass--which comes with a new copy--and you don't have to pay nearly as much. Speaking of waiting for a price drop... (TBC)

@HipHopBeats (continued) (Sorry this is taking so many comments.) Your sticker idea is actually pretty interesting; that might not be such a bad idea. But at the same time, anybody who actually bothers to visit Google can probably find that info anyway, so you're demanding they spend even MORE money to remind people of something they probably already know anyway. Remember that California law that tried to increase the size of the ESRB rating so it was easier to see for adults? Still, not a bad idea. "Some people need to come off their high horse and count their Blessing. Pure and simple." Yeah no kidding. Let's start with the butthurt gamers that go after any developer that makes any sort of public statement against them, even if it's something as modest as, "I think you may have misunderstood what we were doing, but you're entitled to your opinion." (See Warren Spector) (TBC)

@HipHopBeats (continued) Considering that if customers had their way, everything would cost nothing, I'd say a potential customer is the LAST person someone should be turning to for advice on how to market and sell a company's products. Unless that company wants to go bankrupt. Furthermore, you have no way of knowing whether that content can adequately be included in the retail release. Believe it or not, Bioware has to make money to keep making games, and if their costs are too high, they've got to find a way to compensate for that. Considering that it was the huge demands of gamers--BETTER GRAPHICS, MORE FREEDOM, BETTER GAMES, MORE MORE MORE!!!--that indirectly LED to those rising development costs, they were going to have to compensate for that sooner or later, and an extra $10 (since games were $50) probably doesn't make up for those huge costs. In this day and age, a company can either stop evolving and piss off gamers who keep MAKING those absurd demands, or they can increase their costs and find some other way to make up the difference. (i.e. DLC, season passes, etc.) No matter what companies did, they were going to have to piss us off sooner or later, and everyone acts like that's not the case at all. Customers aren't EXPECTED to understand this, but when we don't I'd imagine it gets kind of frustrating for developers, and why do we want to piss them off when they're the ones who actually FEED us these experiences? Go do something else if it makes you that upset (TBC)

@HipHopBeats (continued) Yes, I know that GTA San Andreas has been out twice as long, and if you average the numbers what you find is that GTA IV has 2.89 million per year compared to San Andreas's 2.47, but considering that the cost of development has multiplied by 6 since roughly 2000, I'd say an additional 400,000 each year doesn't make up for the costs, does it? Factor in everything and I'm pretty sure this doesn't amount to "growth" in the sense that everyone uses the word. Oh, and believe it or not, consumers are not a bunch of brainless pet dogs, and suggesting they are is ridiculous and insulting to a bunch of people, including yourself. "So if a dev's gaming budget exceeds a given amount, that gives them the right to create new ways of milking its fan base?" First of all, nobody MILKS a fan base. The "cows" are perfectly free to go graze somewhere else. Nobody FORCES them to buy this stuff. I'm so sick of that ridiculous attitude that gaming is some kind of necessity to LIVE. You don't wanna be milked, don't LET yourself be milked. Second, believe it or not, YES, they DO have that right. They made the product with their own money, time, and effort, so they can do whatever the **** they want to with it. You can argue whether it's WISE or not, but screaming about how it's a "scam"--which nobody can prove--just makes you sound like (ironically) a hopeless, corporate-hating whiner. (TBC)

@HipHopBeats (continued) And it wouldn't make any difference if I WAS someone planning to purchase ME3 on day one or a Bioware employee either, because you'd find a way to marginalize that too. If I WAS planning to purchase on day one and I agreed with Bioware's business practices, you'd claim I was under their "spell," and an utter moron who obviously isn't sane enough in the head to understand he's being "hoodwinked." If I was a Bioware employee you'd say I stood to gain from this, so my opinion doesn't count. Meanwhile over in the land I'm currently in--where I haven't played the games extensively--you're acting like I shouldn't be making these arguments because I haven't actually played the games enough to know how "awful" this Day-1 DLC deal is. So in other words, the only people who have a legitimate opinion in your view of this are those that HAVE played the games extensively and hate Bioware for what they're doing. Everyone else doesn't count. You're drawing an invisible box around your position on this issue to make it impermeable to criticism. Grand Theft Auto has grown its community in proportion to its cost? Sure. Let's see: GTA San Andreas sold 17.33 million copies on PS2 ALONE, and GTA IV has sold 11.23 million copies ALTOGETHER. What a huge growth. Clearly, the fanbase grew in between those releases, which is why the numbers SHRUNK. (TBC)

@HipHopBeats Yes, I'd imagine it would be much easier to just say I have no place making any comments because I don't fit a certain "criteria" a person has to have to profess a legitimate take on something. It makes it easier to completely ignore what I'm saying when you can convince yourself I'm just doing it because I'm bored. Kind of like your earlier comment suggesting that I HAD to be a Bioware employee or a hopeless fanboy to have this view of things. I don't fight/argue/debate just for the sake of it. I'm doing it because I have a strong opinion about something that nobody--by and large--wants to listen to. It's about corporate America, developers, and money in general. It's also about how gamers view the market. (i.e. I generally don't like gamer attitudes, even though I have a blast playing with them.) To suggest that I'm just here making arguments for the sake of it--and trying to marginalize my views as a result of this--is the equivalent of telling Stephen King that he was just looking for attention when he wrote his article defending video games, condemning bill HB1423 which tried to outlaw the sale of violent video games to minors. He doesn't play them at all, so I guess HE was just looking for an excuse to argue too! (TBC)

@HipHopBeats You've got to be kidding me. You point me to an article where it mentions that quote...in the context or arguing IN HER FAVOR. Seriously? How about reading the whole damn article before posting a link? Cause she said that after being called a fat b****, obese c***, and someone trying to ram homosexuality down our throats. If you're going to claim that she can't make those comments and not expect some backlash, then you can't even begin to pretend the circumstances aren't the same for gamers. You insult someone so blatantly--demonstrating sexism, racism, homophobia, etc--and YOU don't get to act like backlash is uncalled for either. You have proven my whole point: gamers are hypocrites. They can call anybody anything they want without repercussion, but someone suggests they MIGHT have their head up their ass, and they are suddenly entitled to blow up a building. (It'll happen eventually. I'm sure.) So thank you for proving exactly what I've said all along.

@Techmaster666 Um...okay. So you're going to claim that hype/fanboys/advertising are a bigger cause of a game selling well than the actual quality of the game when it hasn't even been released yet? YOU DON'T SAY! Don't you see the lack of logic in that statement. OF COURSE hype and fanboys and advertising are the primary contributors because they're the ONLY POSSIBLE CONTRIBUTORS! For a game to sell based on "quality"--which is a subjective term--a player would have to play the whole game before even BUYING it! And in order to do that, the player must either rent or torrent...which contributes roughly nothing to the sales. What exactly is your point?

hahahahahaha omg this is the funniest thread ever. so many self righteous so-called "gamers". if you love the series then day one DLC is not actually going to stop you from buying the game. If it does stop you the your not a fan. plain and simple. and to the guy that was going to cancel their SWTOR subscription...Really dude? seriously? your going to inhibit your own fun thinking that will actually change anything? the only thing your hurting is yourself.

I'm stoked for ME3, I love the whole series but damn... that's a shame...

@HipHopBeats thats why i wont be preordering it. let's wait and see. in any case the game preorders already surpassed EA forecasts, so they wont be missing my dimes.

@Techmaster666 Exactly. I learned my lesson with Uncharted 3. After playing it's predecessor, I was hella hyped for U3 and paid $60 on launch. I was mega pissed and disappointed. That's why sequels are so popular this gen. Why risk creating a new IP when it's so easy to tweak a few complaints, update the graphic engine and slap a 2 or 3 on it, and market towards dedicated fanbase? $$$

@aido727 You are right, I dont understand it. You claim they are fixing bugs, but the dlc had to be developed, so that time is not put into bug fixing and making the product complete. It is just money grabbing. The Prothean was already in the core game, which could be read from scripts that were leaked in June/July of 2011. So they sliced it off to sell it for $10, damn right that doesn't get any understanding from my side! PS: There is no link since microsoft brought out a Cease and Desist on it. There is however another page that is interesting should you want to learn more about the spoiled content: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=451257

@HipHopBeats: I totally agree. The demo is nice but nothing special, but it's no news that many games sell more thanks to hype/fanboys/advertising than for the game itself.

In fact, there we're survivor but they died on the citadel.

I know everything's possible but we're still talking about a race extinct since 50 000 years... And yes the AI clearly said they we're all dead in that tomb. Maybe another tomb in cryo with unlimited power but still... we'll see.

@drytal Maybe for $20 later once it hits the bargain bin after I catch up on my backlog. Factor in player reviews and what I see in the youtube playthroughs. Based off the demo, there is no way I would spend $60 on Mass Effect 3. Plus by the time I buy it, all these DLC's will be free anyway. I look forward to fanboy outrage when gamespot gives this game an 8.0.

And to defend Bioware on its DLC. The content they sell you isn't gamebreaking, it's a nice topping on your sundae that you pay extra for. Its like Katsumi and Zaed awesome characters fun to have around but not gamebreaking in story telling. So please stop crying be happy they go the extra mile for content. Don't like it, don't buy it.

To the person wondering how a Prothean would still be alive, if you played the first Mass Effect. You go to the planet Ellos where you meet Vigil who explains theres thousands of Protheans in Stasis which over the thousands of years were shut down to save power. But were never told if there were other stasis bunkers or if anyone was left alive.

@thrice00 Spoiler alert to anyone who hasn't played through ME2 but the Collectors were descendants of Protheans. I never would've thought a geth could become a squadmate before ME2 so anything's possible with this one. Is it just me or does anyone get the feeling the Illusive Man is tied to Protheans?

@HipHopBeats You do all this whinning and you still gonna buy it.

WHY! Why the fuuuuu do they do this to their loyal customers (which is more than those buying the CE)! They already make so much money off SWTOR (which I didn't buy into btw)! Unfortunately, I have to admit, that this is partly our fault. The game developers stomp on us because we allow them to by buying their DLC BS.

@pm24 In my humble opinion, the ME games is the single greatest thing EA has ever done. I would like to show my support by buying what I think is good.

Stasis or cryo sleep would be possible because they don't live that long. if not they would not have died in the tomb in MA 1

@thrice00 asari can live over 1 thousands years, prothean technology is used by all advanced species in mass effect, we dont much about protheans, maybe they can live that long, maybe when you find him hes in stasis or in cryo sleep, this is mass effect after all....

Anyway, How come there's even a prothean alive 50000 years later.....

@vault-boy re: spoiler. The problem is, you don't know if it matters. You might have a prothean in your squad already and this would just be another/different/extra one. or something along those lines. It SOUNDS like a major deal, but at this point no on really knows if it is as big of a deal as it sounds or not.

My worst fears are coming true.... Bioware has become EA-ified!!!! I've already accepted that Ubisoft turned to the dark side years ago, but not you Bioware!!! And don't think there won't be an online pass or something equivalent included as well. EA owns Bioware and is the publisher of this game. Every EA game has an online pass in it.

Prothean squadmate? Ugh, seriously, guys? Unnecessary,

@vault-boy You bash the people of Bioware for being money hungry but you play their MMO? or Month-to-Month online as I call it. Anyone crazy enough to pay $10+ per month to play a single game should be crazy enough to buy ME3 and everything they add-on if they were a true fan. I'm upset by the decision to hold back content but I've spent 60+ hrs playing the first 2 and I'm not going to let it deter me from at least picking up a copy of it.

Let's just hope that they don't have a passcode to play MP. Can't tell you how heated I was when i got my Pre-owned copy of Assassin's Creed Revelations home only to find out I had to pay $10 to take it online. As for the people claiming to be so turned off you're not going to buy it, you're full of it. Just don't buy the DLC. Companies have been doing this forever, it's not just DLC related. Look at N64 when it was released. I remember getting the console for Christmas and learning the hard way that the AV and Power cord were sold seperately. That's the biggest BS in gaming history.

Pity Bioware just a real pity this has been happening with your roleplaying games for too damn long you didn't cut content from ME1 to sell to us later you actually designed some DLC for the game (poorly designed it and made people start new games just to play it but it was made AFTER THE GAME WAS OUT) Not with DA and ME2,Nooo You've started releasing your games in peices and expecting us all to be cool with paying full price for the half-chewed remains of the release and then milked for 15-20 dollars more just to get the content that should be with the game... and this whole defending yourself with "oh the game was allready done" yadda yadda well thats great you should have released it months ago then and then released this DLC not tried to time it together as lets face it just like Batman arkam city's catwoman DLC was ripped from the game just so they could sell it to us thats what this looks like you ripped features from your game to sell to us alongside it... Oh well pity I'll enjoy playing the game but your not getting one cent of my money now and I don't enjoy that fact it's just if you want to try and rip me off I can do the same :P

You have no idea how much I want to play this game. You really don't. I love Mass Effect, I love it so much. But I can't go through a game playing the good guy when I know the people who made him are the bad ones. If you really demand respect for yourself than don't buy this game. We are going to have to leave this trilogy behind if we want a future for games. We can't let companies do this to us. We have to stand up for ourselves as the consumer. It hurts me so much but I will not be buying Mass Effect 3 and I will be canceling my subscription of The Old Republic.