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Xbox Live ban class-action suit being mulled

Law firm puts out call for gamers tossed from Microsoft's online service in pre-Modern Warfare 2 purges.

In the error message displayed by as many as 1 million Xbox 360s reportedly banned from Xbox Live earlier this month, Microsoft told gamers that there was "no recourse" for violating the system's terms of use agreement. The intellectual property law firm Abington IP apparently disagrees, as it is looking for banned Xbox Live members interested in a possible class-action lawsuit against Microsoft.

There is no recourse for Terms of Service violations…except maybe legal recourse.

There is no recourse for Terms of Service violations…except maybe legal recourse.

The firm claims that Microsoft waited until the release of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 to ban systems in order to maximize sales. The firm believes that sales of Modern Warfare 2, the recently released Halo 3: ODST, and overall Xbox Live subscriptions would all have suffered had the ban been instituted earlier.

While Abington IP acknowledged that the bans were a method to combat the legitimate concern of piracy, the firm claims Microsoft could have and should have tailored its punishment more narrowly. Besides saying that "many" affected people were not involved with piracy at all, the firm criticized Microsoft for removing functionality not associated with piracy, like Netflix video streaming.

Abington IP is asking banned Live users interested in joining a class-action suit to fill out an information form on its Web site. The firm has not yet filed a complaint in the matter.

566 Comments

  • Cloud737

    Posted Feb 11, 2010 9:48 am GMT

    @UN4G1V3NX

    Actually, I don't really think that way. You seem to suggest that every pirated copy is a sale lost, but the truth is that is grossly false. The real amount of sales lost over piracy is really uncertain, and I don't think you can ever quantify it, but it certainly isn't 100%. Some put the guesstimates on sales lost at 1 in every 20 copies downloaded, meaning 5% of downloaded copies.
    There are even some studies that piracy does not harm (and even boosts) the industry. Even music companies seem to be eager to adapt to a peer-to-peer, free music model, since it seems their sales are actually boosted by it (i.e.: piracy), not to mention getting money from the ads served.

    Most of the pirates are probably located in poor countries, meaning they would have never bought the games anyway. That's why I think that sales lost due to piracy are insignificant.

    And I doubt most of the people that started pirating during this recession would have bought the game anyway. If they started pirating, it means their situation is bad enough that they are thinking of going through the trouble of learning the ropes precisely because they can't get the game the old fashion way.

  • UN4G1V3NX

    Posted Feb 11, 2010 8:04 am GMT

    @Cloud737

    I see what your saying but think about this..... If 10 guys got the original game to pirate it and each guy sold a copy to about 10 different people that would make a difference, so instead of selling 110 units (if everyone wanted to get it legit) they were only able sell a fraction of that. But that's just a percent of the many people in this country who do pirate and industries could be selling more if the people didn't pirate. Anyway I also understand that human behavior comes into play because everyone is trying to save anywhere they can, but if that option of getting it pirated wasn't there, it wouldn't be a problem... don't you think?

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 29, 2010 1:20 pm GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    I see you're up to thumbing down my comments and thumbing yours up again for no good reason? You don't have much honor, do you?

    Well, this just more and more highlights that your arguments and personality are puerile. Instead of doing that (and I could understand to a certain degree why you'd just thumb mine down, but why thumb yours up as well?), why don't you actually provide an argument? Or is thumbing down people that don't agree with you the only thing you can do to "enact revenge" and get a sense of satisfaction?

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 29, 2010 10:02 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    So I see you've given up and ran away from this debate, not even looking at those links (or answering my questions that I asked for the 7th time). Well, when you finally get over those preconceptions and want to debate more (preferably with proof or at least logical arguments), feel free to leave another comment here, just be sure to type "@Cloud737" at the start of your post so I get a message (note: editing it in doesn't work, but don't go so don't think of trying to elude in that matter as I'll also be visiting this page from time to time to see if any interesting comments pop up again or if you're trying again to pull another one of your dirty tactics )

    In the meantime... LMAO @ your "each downloaded copy is a sale lost" preconception (and no logical argument or proof as to your claim). Please tell me what other things the publishers are desperately saying these days in their blind greed.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 11:40 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    Never said you were and never said I pirated either.

    Is that your argument to links to some (seemingly) proper research, "debate over"? So is that what you do in real life too when you can't accept arguments against your preconceptions, you turn your back and plug your ears? Reality doesn't care about you denying it, it will march on regardless. Failing to recognize it just leads to failure.
    Admit it, you didn't even look at that, just hearing something against your preconceptions is reason for you to undoubtedly think it's stupid.

    You still haven't answered my questions about why you won't turn yourself in for pirating or why you'd turn others in... that's about the 7th time I'm asking you this... yup, you really want to avoid those questions...

  • JunglemanchiId

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 11:00 am GMT

    I learned it was wrong back when people were on 56k, im not the one in the wrong here . Piracy helps the industry? Ok. Debate over nice talking to you

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 10:32 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    Also, there have actually been a few studies made that show that not only does piracy not hurt the industry (much), but it actually helps it. The music industry is also kind of eager to adopt a more pirate friendly scheme as well.

    How about telling the officers "arrest me, I pirated music", or just "I'm here to report someone that pirated, his name is [your name]". You don't even have to go to the police, there are a few online sites where you can easily report pirates as well. Just because it's ridiculous doesn't mean you should skip it just because it's about you.

    And I understand already that it isn't jealousy, I'm asking you what is then?

    As for knowing how to mod, let's say I believe you. That wasn't the main point, just an observation.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 10:32 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    Sorry, no, I only come here hitting F5 only every 5 minutes after I run out of ideas of what else to write in my blog. You're give me quite the good inspiration, btw.
    Funny how you try to mock me for refreshing the page when you are omitting that "@Cloud737" in your comment so that I wouldn't get a message that you replied (or is it to not also get the messages you apparently delete shortly thereafter for some odd, suspicious reason?). Do I have any other choice to see if you replied except for hitting F5/opening the page again?

    Well, at least we're starting to agree on those remote cases. Still...

    One thousand people downloading Mass Effect 2 doesn't necessarily mean one thousand sales lost (and it usually won't, it will be less, though you never know how much, but I suspect it to much less than that).

    Some of those users may be in China or Asia, probably never even seeing Mass Effect there. Let's not forget that the majority of the pirating population is located in poor countries, this covering Asia and Africa pretty well.

    Some of those users would probably never have gotten the game as they don't have the money. Sure, it's not right to get it if you don't pay for it, but the dev wouldn't have gotten any money either so it's not a lost sale (theft).

    Some of those who download may be in Europe, who'd can't get the game yet, but will buy it regardless of downloading it before or not.

    And some of those would have of course bought the copies if they couldn't pirate it.

    There are 4 types of pirates that I just iterated, probably more in reality. How do you know absolutely all those 100,000 pirates fit into that the last category? Personal preconception?

  • JunglemanchiId

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 9:56 am GMT

    You are incorrectly assuming my intentions considering you must be sitting on this page rattling F5.
    People often say they download to try it and if they like it then they will buy it, most of these people are lying but fair play to any of them that actually do it.
    I also have no problem with anyone downloading a game from a different market if there is no chance of it coming out in their own region, however, these people again are usually people who play other pirate games so I would still report them
    I really dont get why you dont understand what I am saying, where are you from?! If one hundred thousand people download mass effect 2 for example then thats one hundred thousand less sales for Bioware, yes they will still make millions from the users purchasing it but they could have made more. These big companies can take that hit to be honest but smaller ones would take it a bit harder, again the same as the band analogy. U2 wont lose out if one hundred thousand people download their latest album but in my opinion they still have the right to be annoyed about it.

    If I went to the police station and said "I played pirate games and downloaded music when I was 14, can I turn myself in" they would tell me to go away, dont be so ridiculous Cloud. I have explained about 10 TIMES why it isnt jealousy. I have built my own PCs since I was about 16 and have been doing computing, programming and electronics for years at university, I will reiterate, I choose not to do it!

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 9:53 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    Turn yourself in for pirating CDs when you were young. You yourself said you'd report people you knew that pirated. So why not be indiscriminate and turn yourself in as well?

    And why would you turn others in, I ask? If it's not jealousy, what is the reason for it then? Does it directly harm you in any way? Are you bored? Do you hate humanity? Don't leave me speculating here, please do tell.

    I doubt it you yourself could mod an xbox (as opposed to having someone do it). Just because you know how to use a soldering iron isn't enough.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 9:47 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    -------
    "If the person who downloaded it actually bought it then the company would have another sale"
    -------

    Do you realize what you're saying? So why would any person in their right mind have two copies for themselves?

    If I bought the European version and then download the US version to see if there are any differences in those, then you're implying to me that if I didn't have a way to pirate I would have bought the US version?

    Better yet, if I downloaded the game and liked it and then bought it, you're telling me that if I couldn't pirate I would've bought two copies? You even realize what you're saying?

    How about the more realistic case of a game that has only been released in Japan, with no way of buying it in the US or Europe. Are you saying that if I download that, the company lost a sale they would have got even if there is no realistic way I could've gotten my hands on a legit copy?

    Piracy is not necessarily stealing. It depends on the case. You can't measure potential sales correctly, just as you can't predict the future.

    You still haven't answered those questions about why you wouldn't turn yourself in for pirating when you were young or why you'd turn pirates in if not jealousy?
    Though I like it that you're now avoiding to put an "@Cloud737" at the start of your comment in hopes that I don't get a message and forget to check the page, or can't find it. Please tell me if I'm incorrectly assuming your intentions.

  • JunglemanchiId

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 9:41 am GMT

    "@JunglemanchiId

    And you still haven't answered my question of why you won't turn yourself in but would turn others? And what is your reason for turning others if not jealousy?

    It seems you really like to avoid those... Do they frighten you or something?"

    Turn myself in for what? I have already answered why it isnt jealousy considering I would have no trouble modding an xbox, no problem at all. I could play pirate games if I wanted to...but I dont, why cant you understand this?

  • JunglemanchiId

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 9:31 am GMT

    It is necessarily stealing, when you use that word it basically means that it still is, it is either stealing or it isnt. If the person who downloaded it actually bought it then the company would have another sale, instead the person has decided that they dont want to pay for it and just download it, this to me means they have one less sale considering an extra person is playing their product without buying it. Like I said before, if everyone thought like you and just downloaded it then they would have 0 sales thus make no money and lose millions in developing the game. I am not going to say its ok for people to download it just because the majority still pay for it. A band set up a tour which costs money, travel, tickets, venues, promotion...the price builds up. Then they begin the tour and no one buys tickets, they get fake tickets. The people go and watch them and enjoy the show but the band gets no money from it considering there are no ticket sales ( i am aware that they wouldnt get in but my point stands ). If someone can't afford to do something then they shouldnt cheat their way into getting it, if we are talking about luxuries like video games here.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 9:25 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    And you still haven't answered my question of why you won't turn yourself in but would turn others? And what is your reason for turning others if not jealousy?

    It seems you really like to avoid those... Do they frighten you or something?

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 9:23 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    I wasn't arguing about stealing games being illegal or immoral (of course it is). I was arguing that one pirated copy being one last sale is false, and thus piracy is not necessarily stealing (though you can bet some of it is, just how much is unknown).
    Read my arguments next time instead of hurrying to type "LOL".

  • JunglemanchiId

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 9:18 am GMT

    If my "point of view" on stealing games was incorrect then everyone would be doing it . It's a matter of law here not opinion.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 9:16 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    You still haven't answered why you won't turn yourself in, btw. Just for the sake of hearing it from you, please tell me why you wouldn't turn yourself in if you claimed you'd do this to someone that pirated?

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 9:13 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    Is "LOL" your only argument now? I see...
    Oh, and nice fair play there in thumbing up your own comment while thumbing down almost all of mine when you saw I thumbed down ONLY your last comment because of having no substance. Really now, is that all you can do and care about in these debates?

    I never said I stole games. I was merely argumenting why your point of view was incorrect.

  • JunglemanchiId

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 8:52 am GMT

    @Cloud737

    Just lol...lets just say I will keep buying games and you can keep stealing them goodbye

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 8:43 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    Just goes to show the strength of your arguments and your willingness to stand against scrutiny. You have no arguments, so you now run along saying that it's a waste of time to read and argue your non-documented point of view.

    I knew from the start trying to have a conversation with you was a "waste of time", but I'm hopeful that others who read it will find logic in it. That's basically why I continued to argument my point of view despite of you offering puerile arguments, indicating things will end this way.

    Instead of laughing at my 7 comments that actually contain substance, maybe you should laugh at yours that barely have any. Even better than that, try putting real arguments on the table for an intelligent debate, not just ridiculing my arguments without even mentioning why they're wrong.

  • JunglemanchiId

    Posted Jan 27, 2010 4:22 am GMT

    @Cloud737

    I loled....

    7 comments? Im not even going to read them Waste of time

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 2:51 pm GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    And just so you can't say your forgot, I'll ask you again:

    Why would you report someone for pirating if you claim it's not jelously? And why don't you start by turning yourself in as well?

    And please do try to offer less belittling and mocking and twisting of my arguments and more logic, which you seem to lack or at the very least not wanting to showcase, instead preferring to attack my person instead of my arguments.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 2:48 pm GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    And just to reiterate, you're committing piracy everyday even if you don't know it. Did you quote someone today? That's piracy. How about copying a part of an article on the internet? That's piracy as well. Downloaded a YouTube vid to your HDD to retouch it and upload again? That's piracy as well.

    And yes, I do know what a soldering iron is. I'm also pretty adept at technology and programming, so I actually know what I'm talking about, unlike you.

    Oh, and just because you have a soldering iron doesn't mean you have the skills to mod consoles. Even if you do know how to use the soldering iron doesn't mean you know how to mod consoles. What, you think you can just look up a guide and hope you won't screw up?
    Most newcomers who attempt this just because they think they can end up frying the console.
    It's the same as kids who think they can be great game developers just because they like playing games, then getting hit by maths and algorithms and tech and programming in general.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 2:48 pm GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    Again, you seem to think every pirated copy is a lost sale, which is a fallacy, but you never seem to mind about this.

    Some people who pirate would not buy the game otherwise since they can't afford it. Others like to try the game a bit (not till the end) before buying (regardless of the existence of the demo or not, as the demo can sometimes hide the defects of the game), otherwise they won't buy it (and in this case, piracy actually helps the industry a bit).

    And for some games, it may be impossible to find them at retail or as used copies. So how can that possibly harm the publisher when they've given up on their property, not publishing anymore copies?
    Even if there are used copies, the money doesn't go to the publisher, so again this is NOT a lost sale for them.

    So tell me, where is the lost sale here? Please do try to come up with a convincing argument this time, boy.

    Piracy is not necessarily stealing. Some cases are. Some cases aren't. Saying a pirated copy is a lost sale is a fallacy pushed down your throat by publishers.

    Again, please do tell me why you'd report someone if he pirated then if you say it's not because of jealousy? And also do tell me why you don't start with yourself as well?

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 2:30 pm GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    I don't know why you deleted your previous message here, but for the sake of the argument and transparency I'm gonna repost it.

    The message below IS NOT MINE, but JunglemanchiId's (to anyone interested)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    @Cloud737 - Are you so foolish to actually believe that pirating games is not the same as stealing? You can write huge paragraphs with the same nonsense if you want but I pirated when I was about 12 or 13 and then learned better. I dont copy music, games, movies or anything and I dont download them either. I use my phone for phone calls and text messaging, not for transferring songs through bluetooth or any other method. Downloading and copying a game is stealing and your opposing views on this are laughable, you are costing the developer a sale as you are playing the game, if you bought the game they would have an extra sale, if everyone downloaded the game then they would have no sales and the game would have cost millions to make with nothing in return. Yes they still make millions now because the VAST majority of people pay for their games etc. Just because you cant afford something but REALLY want it is no excuse to pirate, how can you think otherwise? Are you 12? By your logic I could steal a brand new car that has not been sent to the showroom yet because I really want it...but its not out in the shop yet but who cares it's not a loss in sales.

    To actually claim I am jealous of others who pirate games and play them before me is embarrassing. I have the skills to mod consoles and pirate games but I dont. Do you even know what a soldering iron is? lol.
    Feel free to message me and I can explain some piracy laws to you...

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 2:28 pm GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    Seriously, do you even think about what you write? Do you even read carefully, or just try to twist everything to suit your little war with me in sight of having no plausible arguments and not being able to come up with any either, only relying on common preconceptions and misconceptions?

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 2:26 pm GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    Another example of that is Sins of a Solar Empire, a strategy game for the PC that shipped with absolutely no DRM. Guess what? Despite the very public foul-mouthing and threats from StarForce (including them posting links and images to torrent sites to "prove" that the game was highly pirated), the game sold better than almost any other game with DRM, going past the 1 million copies sold very quickly (below one week).
    So tell me, how can a game without any form of DRM and so vulnerable be able to sell more than most other games with DRM if the industry is being affected by piracy oh-so-much?

    I also didn't say games are different from what you find in shops, I'm saying pirating games are different from stealing something from a shop, since pirating is not necessarily stealing, as a copy pirated doesn't always equal a lost sale, though you can bet some of the time it does.

    Ha, me coming back with ridiculous conclusions? Just look at you, not even being able to read my arguments properly and twisting them so that they suit your needs. And you tell me I'm the one with ridiculous conclusions?

    So tell me, if it is not jealousy, why would you report someone you know that pirated? Answer me this time, don't just avoid the question saying it's not this or that but not saying why you actually would do it.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 2:25 pm GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    I also never said poor people should be able to pirate since they are poor, that's also something you incorrectly inferred just so you can have a shot at me. All I said was that it was to be expected for poor people to pirate and that it usually isn't a lost sale (stealing) since they wouldn't have bought the game otherwise.

    I never blamed game companies for their products being modable or pirated, I blamed them for not building a better scoring system which would take abuse and cheating into account, for not thinking that pirates would try to abuse it and not taking that into account.
    It's the same as blaming a bank for not having implemented security measures, as they should have expected criminals to try and rob them.
    Are you saying that I'm wrong and that it's wrong to blame a bank for lax security measures that resulted in you losing your savings? I don't think piracy affects the industry much. Actually, I've seen a lot of anti-piracy measures actually hurting the game industry. Ever heard of StarForce? There was a time when almost all big game companies used it. People started getting really pissed at it's draconian DRM and started boycotting it. Soon after, companies started losing sales and desperately either completely switched to Securom or no DRM (as with Ubisoft), and now StarForce is just a stain in history. I don't hear game companies complain about lost sales now, especially Ubisoft and all others that don't use DRM.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 2:25 pm GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    At least I make some arguments, all that you seem to revolve around is belittling me. Not once have you tried to argue WHY it is stealing, especially since I've given arguments as to why it is not necessarily stealing.
    So let's see, on one hand there are my arguments, on the other there is you claiming my arguments are pathetic without any argument as to why or any piece of logical thinking attached there. Niiiice...

    Oh yeah, and it's nice to see you read all my posts. Just goes to show how much you love me and to what extent you'll go to criticize me.

    You still haven't answered my question, though: why don't you turn yourself in? Seriously, turn yourself in if you hate pirates so much, since you yourself admitted to pirating. Otherwise you'd seem like a hypocrite.

    Like I said, piracy is stealing ONLY in the case where the developer/publisher actually loses a potential sale. Not all acts of piracy involve potential sales, even though publishers like to push that down your throat. Thus, it is not necessarily stealing, though you can bet some of it is. I never said it never is stealing. Though thanks for putting a spin on it to favor your argument.

  • JunglemanchiId

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 6:30 am GMT

    @Cloud737 - Your pathetic arguments continue to amuse me. You dont think piracy is stealing, you think that poor people should be able to pirate since they are poor, you blame the companies for their games or systems being able to be copied, you dont think it affects the industry and you seem to class games as something different from anything else you would find in a shop.

    I could go through all these retarded arguments but I know you would come back with some ridiculous conclusions so I will just say that I CAN mod consoles, I CAN pirate games and I CAN obtain all my music, movies, tv shows and games without paying but I DONT! To claim I am jealous does not make any sense as I choose to pay for things with money I earn, I dont know if you are in the 3rd world or an eastern european slum but you have not made 1 valid point that would even make me consider that pirating is ok.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 6:06 am GMT

    @MarcJL31

    But didn't M$ say there's no recourse for banning you from the service?

    Anyway, I'm willing to bet M$ will lose even more money because of this than actually gain anything. Pirates usually don't buy the games they can't pirate, or actually buy less if they can't test the game beforehand, while M$ now has to face lawsuits, even class-action lawsuits, because of banning legitimate consumers. On top of that, they don't refund anything to those banned, and I don't think those banned have any easy way of canceling a recurring payment on their credit card. Way to screw it up...

    Still, those that modded their consoles should have expected it, regardless of morality.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 6:01 am GMT

    @stavske

    I know lots of people that would buy their games, or at least buy more of them instead of pirate, if they were cheaper. Computer parts are cheaper here, a high-end PC being way cheaper than in the West.
    Games however cost $100, and with a medium salary of $333 per month, I dare you tell me you still expect people to save and not pirate. I bet you'd do the same as them if you were here. Most of the piracy you hear about happens in these types of poor countries and not in the US, UK, Canada or other bastions of economic prosperity.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 5:47 am GMT

    @cashkilla_basic

    Actually, I've read a pretty logical argument sometime ago that it's actually legal as that console functionality that M$ disables (game data on HDD, etc.) wasn't basic console functionality but functionality that has been added thanks to XBL (which gave you the updated firmware), to which terms you have agreed to. So, in all fairness, they're disabling firmware functionality connected with the service that you might not have gotten anyway had you not accepted their service, and thus can disable that functionality if they revoke your use of the service as part of a breach.

    This would of course be null if consoles ship with the new firmware now, or if games automatically force you to update to the new firmware. Please tell me if that's the case there, as I don't really know much about it.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 5:37 am GMT

    @UN4G1V3NX

    You're missing that people who pirate now, during the recession, in hopes of saving money because of economic hardship might as well not buy the game if they can't pirate, so developers don't get anything in the end either way. Thus, piracy might not be affecting the industry in this case.

    That never ending cycle, which will actually end quite naturally given the laws of the universe, economy and human nature (a balance has to be reached between the unsustainable greed people had before the recession and the suffering after it), may not actually be perpetuated by piracy after all, just common human behavior.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 5:32 am GMT

    @xbxjetraider

    Your basically reproducing what I said, so how come you're arguing with me?

    Scoring errors are always software errors (unless in the rare case of bad RAM in the console, which corrupts easily, but that would bring the whole game down in 99% of the cases).

    Thus, developers are at fault for any scoring scheme gone wrong, even by pirated modded copies. They shouldn't have been naive and think that all copies would report data correctly, even more so, just telling XBL what score to add to yourself rather than letting it to calculate it based on the variables you send. They should have implemented a more hack-proof system, so in large part they're to blame (since they should have expected it), as well the users who cheated to a smaller degree.

    And since you do recognize that PSP games have been pirated ever since launch, despite the UMD being a format that won't ever be available to consumers, even without the UMD in the drive, then it means that it is possible to do this, even for the PS3. Thus, Blu-ray discs and writers price and unavailability is not necessarily a problem for pirates, even though I would love to think otherwise, since this just means it's a problem of convenience rather than technology, and that as soon as BD and BD writers appear so will a PS3 modchip.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 5:19 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    (continued)

    Piracy is different from stealing something from a shop. In some cases, people don't have the money to get the game even if they passionately wanted to support the devs, and in some cases some games can't be found anywhere except on the internet or as very hard to find used games (which don't reward the developers at all, the money doesn't go to them). So how is it stealing if developers hadn't lost any potential sale here?

    It's the same as you somehow getting a copy for the game without that copy disappearing from the shop, neither in the present nor the future.
    Stealing involves a two-step process: the goods disappears from someone's possession or future possession (in the case of potential sale) and appears in someone else's possession. Piracy can involve either only the second or both steps, depending on the case, meaning that sometimes it is stealing while at other times it's not. So it's not necessarily stealing.

  • Cloud737

    Posted Jan 26, 2010 5:18 am GMT

    @JunglemanchiId

    So if you pirated before, you are not really that much better than the rest of us.
    Actually, it sounds a bit hypocritical.

    And why don't you go to the police and turn yourself in if you hate pirates so much, since you did pirate as well?

    Remember that if all people acted like you, you'd be in jail right now as well.

    Besides, I bet you pirate even now, just don't know it. Transferring songs from a friend's phone to yours is piracy. Recording TV shows or songs to put in your collection is piracy. Downloading a YouTube video to your HDD (for permanent storage) is piracy. Copying a part of a news article in your blog is piracy. Quoting someone is piracy. Heck, even reproducing someone's exact words could be considered piracy. The law really needs reform.
    There was a study I read recently, and it concluded that given the current copyright law, you are engaging in about 50 acts or piracy per day just doing normal everyday stuff that any person might do.

    So why are you reporting others if not because of jealousy? It doesn't affect you in any way, except if you were to be jealous of people getting games before you got them and for free.

  • Onetwoindo

    Posted Dec 22, 2009 3:56 pm GMT

    no way man
    one single original xbox or ps3 games cost 600.000($60) in my country since most if the employee only get salaries about 2000000($100-200) for each months..is almost half of our salaries and theres many of another needed than need to be fullfill

  • UN4G1V3NX

    Posted Dec 16, 2009 1:22 pm GMT

    @GOR_TAK
    continued.....

    Also think about this... those who like playing campaign and any offline content are the ones who are most benefiting from this. So the market is already losing a massive amount of sell. Think about it, how are things here in the US relates to this...
    Because people are concern about saving money, there is not a lot of money going between the companies and the public. So in order to keep companies running they have to cut down on jobs available. Thus the lack of jobs in the market and makes people worry more about saving money, so its a repeating cycle. Now apply this to the gaming industry. If modders keep doing what there doing, companies are eventually going to loses money so they would have to stop working on projects (new games) because of the lack of funds. I mean come on i wouldn't want to know they stopped on Halo Reach, God of War 3, Spec Ops: The Line, Modern Warfare 3 { ; ) I wish LOL}, or any great future titles to come just because the company didn't have the funds to make it. It would be a sad day in gaming indeed. = (

  • UN4G1V3NX

    Posted Dec 16, 2009 1:22 pm GMT

    @GOR_TAK

    I know its not a binding contract but its an agreement in which if you don't follow the rules, the services will be taken away. Simple as this, if you mod your system to; get games or content for free or cheap or cheat in games, your breaking the rules. Its like saying, "its Ok to steal money from your family... just because their YOUR FAMILY." Tell me does that sound right? Of course not! And anyway if you want do so, go right ahead just know that you can't get online because the minute you do, you will get banned. read next one.....

  • GOR_TAK

    Posted Dec 4, 2009 1:34 pm GMT

    @UN4G1V3NX

    The TOU/TOS are not legally binding contracts and they do not grant MS the right to disable xboxes. Sure they're within their rights to keep the xboxes from logging in to use Live but they DO NOT have the right to cripple property you have bought and own outright.

  • UN4G1V3NX

    Posted Dec 4, 2009 6:08 am GMT

    Look simple as this you guys..... When you went to buy your Xbox 360 or PS3 and signed up for Xbox LIVE or PSN and Terms Of Use (ToU) contract was shown to you that you were supposes to read (Which many didn't cause they wanted to get right into it... I'm guilty of that LOL) and Accept the terms before you were completely done with sign up. We after going back and reading (which you should have done instead of complain) you will see that the min. you decided to mod your system you broke that agreement and your Services (pretty much everything that is involved with LIVE..... ex:[Online gaming, Windows Media Center, any Downloads, etc...]) will be cut off. Even if you didn't read it, its common sense that you should already know this and if you decided to still get your system modded and banned then tough luck for you. Yes, in the world we live today there are a lot of injustices and yes, i feel that we all should try and fix them... some of you feel the same. But if those of you who feel the same and went and modded your system your just adding to the injustice that there is in the world.

  • cashkilla_basic

    Posted Nov 30, 2009 12:24 pm GMT

    I see a lot of talk of piracy being immoral, etc. First of all, Microsoft has no idea if anyone was pirating games. They only know that people were modifying their firmware. Secondly, moral arguments have no place in this discussion. Judges don't care about morals and opinions - only the law. Third, I don't what kind of backward legal system they have where you live, but in the US, it's illegal to take the law into ones own hands. It was acceptable for M$ to terminate X-Box Live service (though they would need to give a prorated refund, which they haven't yet done), but it's totally unacceptable for them to take punitive action by disabling key console functionality, such as media center functionality.

  • MarcJL31

    Posted Nov 30, 2009 8:36 am GMT

    Anyone with a modded console to play pirated games and got banned has no say. Everyone knew what the possible outcome was as it happened last year around the same time also. Now just like last year, there were people who got banned who were legit. Read ALL the reports and you will see that MS confirmed it after last years "ban wave" that unmodded consoles were affected. Same thing this year and MS is doing the same thing they did last year, send in your console, they will check it over, and send you a new one. On top of this class action suit there are plenty of other lawsuits going on because of this. No method is full proof or 100% accurate when it comes to these matters. And just like last year and this year, we will be seeing the same thing next year. It is a cat and mouse game. But if you mod and got banned, you knew what you were doing so just accept the consequences.

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