Researcher subs PS3s for supercomputer

  • By Polybren, GameSpot
  • Posted Oct 17, 2007 5:38 pm PT

The PlayStation 3 is increasingly finding a home in the field of academia. Since March, the Folding @home project has been helping Stanford University researchers explore the process by which proteins form. Information processed by the distributed computing program could help give scientists new...

The PlayStation 3 is increasingly finding a home in the field of academia. Since March, the Folding @home project has been helping Stanford University researchers explore the process by which proteins form. Information processed by the distributed computing program could help give scientists new insight into the causes and treatments of diseases such as Parkinson's, Alzheimer's, and cystic fibrosis.

Now another researcher is using the PS3 in the hopes of making scientific advances. According to Wired, University of Massachusetts, Dartmouth astrophysicist Dr. Gaurav Khanna has rigged up an array of eight PS3 systems to help him crunch numbers in his study of theoretical gravity waves. The waves are supposed to be a byproduct of a supermassive black hole consuming a star, and Khanna is using the processing power to determine if such waves would be strong enough that we could observe them some day.

Previously in his research, Khanna was forced to pay as much as $5,000 for the use of a supercomputer to crunch his numbers. Although Sony provided Khanna with the PS3s free of charge, the astrophysicist told the magazine it would still have been cheaper to use PS3s instead of the supercomputer.

"Basically, it's almost like a replacement," he said. "I don't have to use that supercomputer anymore, which is a good thing."

Khanna hopes to publish his findings in the next few months.

321 Comments

  • Zoomer30

    Posted Dec 17, 2008 5:53 pm PT

    This is the reason that the PS2 was on the embargo list for Iran I think, they where worried Iran could do this with PS2s to simulate nuclear experiments. Something tells me you cant get a PS3 over there either

  • playstation_wii

    Posted Oct 28, 2007 1:19 pm PT

    Another piece of evidence that one day, the cell will control the world.

  • hazelnutman

    Posted Oct 24, 2007 10:48 pm PT

    Holy cow. Finally some people use the PS3 to some of it's potential. It's still got a lot of things it can do, but all we can do is wait for now...

  • NND1

    Posted Oct 22, 2007 11:27 am PT

    Good but this is a gaming site Sooo lets see some games and some RUMBLE!!!!!!

  • iliyun

    Posted Oct 22, 2007 11:19 am PT

    Holy Cow !!!! this is incredible ! ill pick up a PS 3 ,,,,,,,5 yrs from now $199.99 ! but seriously this is awesome news that a game console is helping researchers.

  • mattstone12

    Posted Oct 22, 2007 8:34 am PT

    now the ps3 has something the 360 doesnt. now the ps3 can say "iam curing cancer."

  • Bronson2k3

    Posted Oct 22, 2007 4:31 am PT

    Sony provided Khanna with the PS3s free of charge, the astrophysicist told the magazine...HAHA he was paid to say and do it by Sony hehe

  • speedylomeli

    Posted Oct 22, 2007 12:44 am PT

    The PS3 will crunch the 360 into an infinite amount of little peaces, and supercompute the Wii to the stone age.

  • GeneralZhukov

    Posted Oct 21, 2007 8:05 pm PT

    Its nice to see that Sony has finally found its place in this console war: in the hands of Academia worldwide.

  • OatmealKing

    Posted Oct 21, 2007 5:02 pm PT

    grand17 and to think, 360's break just playing games
    LOL

    coulnt have said it better myself

  • cikame

    Posted Oct 21, 2007 3:38 pm PT

    couldn't he have linked 8 ordinary computers?

  • zerohour38

    Posted Oct 21, 2007 11:02 am PT

    Man PS3 may be expensive but it sure is powerfull in other ways

    horray Playstation 3

  • MysticDynamite

    Posted Oct 21, 2007 10:42 am PT

    Gaming in the name of science FTW!!!

  • Martin_G_N

    Posted Oct 20, 2007 6:24 pm PT

    HEHE.....They will get this power in to games, eventually. I read about 4D, and that is a type of rendering that the PS3 and a powerful PC can do in real time, but the x360 would use days. So when games do get more complicated in terms of gameplay....it will show muscles. It can do alot of things at the same time, that has to count for something. And if the Ps3 is so close to x360 now, even when it's hard to program, that means that there is alot of unused power in there.....more than the x360 anyways.

  • Metallicantera

    Posted Oct 20, 2007 12:36 pm PT

    black hole waves? so the playstaytion can pretty much break the space-time continuum, do your homework, make you toast and drive your car for you, BUT ... it still cant "compute" games...

  • SemiMaster

    Posted Oct 20, 2007 9:48 am PT

    Sony = PR placement outside of gaming
    Professor = Free equipment

    Win Win.

    I wish I got my PS3 for free, let alone 8.

  • ssj4_2004

    Posted Oct 20, 2007 9:44 am PT

    I used to do this all the time, with my atari 2600

  • onthe_dl

    Posted Oct 20, 2007 9:13 am PT

    good to see someones getting some use out of their ps3

  • Williedude87

    Posted Oct 20, 2007 6:50 am PT

    pyro, he probably installed Yellow Dog Linux on them, and wrote his own code for it. Factory PS3's. He probably went with the $60 Yellow Dog Linux install kit available from Tera Solutions, as he is a member of the HP Consortium.

  • deranged_pyro

    Posted Oct 20, 2007 6:43 am PT

    i find it amusing that every one is going on about how greta or how crap the ps3 is because of this article, because chances are Dr. Gaurav Khanna's 8 ps3's are probably so far from original its not funny, and its also kinda hard to say one ps3 is "great" (even though it is a powerful console) when reading this article, because they are talking about 8 working in unison, 8 most probably heavely modified ps3's working in unison, not one factory standard ps3.

    (fyi im not a fanboy, this is just my 2 cents so dont go ripping into me for having an opinion)

  • Taiko88

    Posted Oct 20, 2007 4:27 am PT

    @shabulia "Cool, but how are they running these programs on a PS3? I don't get it. Isn't there some serious hacking being done here?"

    No hacking, PS3 uses linux, and in linux you can install anything. Plus PS3 gave him the PS3's, therefore they probably installed the software he needed in advance.

  • Williedude87

    Posted Oct 20, 2007 4:14 am PT

    Out of context much? Even so, does Basicaly, almost, like.. = OMG THIS IS THE LEETEST SUPER COMPUTER!

    So you are claiming that all of the thousands of projects being done on Super Computers, can be done on the free calculator I've been using for 3 years? Wow, thats fantastic! Now we know where all the researches can shove their Grant requests!

    Did you even spend 5 minutes to look? http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/ it will take LESS then 5 minutes. There have been 2 conventions dedicated almost soley to this kind of research. They call it Hack-a-Thon.. these industry leaders must be retarded or in some sort of conspiracy! DIRTY COMMIES!!

    I don't even know what to say, you completely dumbfounded me. I mean there have been hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in these projects, that have been ongoing since at least 2003. Even though you can directly tie innovations in tech, and game making directly to them I guess that doesn't matter huh.. cause you just don't care. Whatever.

    Find me a rig capable of processing a tereflop of information for under $20k.. go ahead. Also, fecal matter has been used as a power source since pretty much the beggining of mankind. There are cars and power generators working off of cow dung all over the world. I bet if you saw it, you still wouldn't believe it? I'm not even going to list any references because apparently they don't mean anything. Good bye.

  • Xeroblack

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 11:28 pm PT

    O wow i guess i need to go buy seven more if i want to do my homework properly

  • majoras_wrath

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 9:19 pm PT

    Thats really cool...
    If only the Xbox fanboys would GTFO

  • LouieV13

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 8:29 pm PT

    Its a super computer that delays games and plays them with crap framerates with the few decent games! YAY!!

  • kr24racer

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 6:15 pm PT

    Cool

  • Fauij

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 5:22 pm PT

    well i wish it could have some games

  • X_CAPCOM_X

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 1:53 pm PT

    Feel good story of the day...I plan to use my PS3 for its ability to "super-compute" Metal Gear Solid 4 when it is released.

    -Lordofultima

    I will super-compute 24/7

  • arrowj

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 1:34 pm PT

    To Willedude8:

    Nowhere did he say???? WTF? Are you reading the same article????. ya, he said it in the closing line. "Basically, it's almost like a replacement," he said.

    You do know how to read, do you not?

    1.) I did respond to your individual post. The public one was an expanded version. I don't know why you didn't get it. This was the first time I tried to use the reply command. There is nothing about you to fear.

    2.) I posted it twice accidently. I was travelling on business in a hotel and on my laptop. The connection was slow so it appeared as if it didn't take. Notice the timestamp idgit. Happens alot. Even if I did, so what?

    3. My Ire is not directed towards the scientist. It's you. The statement he makes- "'Basically, it's almost like a replacement,' he said." and other posters actually thinking that hooking up some PS3s and coming close to a supercomputer is ridiculous.

    4. I have no problem with him hooking up the PS3s and doing what he can. No problem. My attack? Poor choice of words since I didn't attack anyone or call out anyone specifically. That's something you did.

    5. Doing a search on Google for PS3 mods or something similar proves nothing. You can do a search and find information on people using Timex Sinclairs or CelecoVision mods. There are people doing stuff like this all the time. There is probably someone out there hooking up an ear of corn to do the exact same thing...that doesn't mean it's viable.

    You said:
    "If you took 5 minutes, you would see there was a massive following of doing this kind of thing with the PS2, and it has continued for the PS3. If it cannot be done, and doesn't make economic sense they why are so many people doing it? If you checked your facts, there is a massive niche community dedicated to this."

    A massive amount of people? I don't think so. It's niche, you just said it yourself.

    6.) You are uninformed. It's not your fault, but yes, you are uninformed.

    Still, my argument is that it does NOT make a great deal economic sense....something is sacrificed...or else EVERYONE would be doing it. Not just a niche group. EVERYONE...That's what guides our business actions...money. Obviously, it isn't that great a substitution or else everyone would be doing it.

    Your entire argument is that just because someone is doing it, means that it makes sense...incorrect. There is someone out there connecting up dog poo as a power source. That doesn't mean it's legit or that it somehow, magically, makes sense. A PS3 (or even 8 of them) do not come close to a supercomputer.

    7. Something you missed is the timeframe. Yes, it maybe slow as all getout but it gets the job done 2 weeks later or whatever... that's fine. And he has a real application that's fine...but to say that it's a viable subsitiuion, er...I don't think so. Ultimately a calculator will solve even the most complex problems if given an eternity to work on it.

    It isn't a viable substiuition for a supercomputer...ya, wonder how well it's working out for him. For a simple calulation, maybe that's great and all he needs. For those who think the guys who think THIS STORY now qualifies the PS3 as now immensely powerful or smart enough to rewrite NASA's code as a result....I don't think so.

    This is a story of 1 guy that found a good use for it...great. Plays right into SONY's marketing idea of this thing having UBER AI. MARKETING PLOY dude, whether you want to believe that, is up to you. But that doesn't change what it is.

  • Delongman

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 10:58 am PT

    So 8 PS3s = a supercomputer?

  • Williedude87

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 10:14 am PT

    Thats not what he is claiming Arrow. Nowhere does it say "This IS a super computer." Nobody is claiming that. He said he is using it as a SUBSTITUTE for a super computer.

    See, the problem is you aren't actually reading the article in the proper context.. wait did I say you actually read the article? the fact is, in 5 minutes on google I found at least 3 different projects with PS3 clusters, only one of them sponsored by Sony. That same project also sells PS3 clusters, and provides them for use free of charge. They have also hosted 2 conventions which have been very important in using and understanding cell technology. Of course those advancements are going to benefit the games.

    If you took 5 minutes, you would see there was a massive following of doing this kind of thing with the PS2, and it has continued for the PS3. If it cannot be done, and doesn't make economic sense they why are so many people doing it? If you checked your facts, there is a massive niche community dedicated to this.

    If you would learn to read before replying to something, you would see I am not defending a PS3 as a Super Computer. I Copy Pasted a article because it directly addressed a lot of the things people have been saying, and I knew they wouldn't follow the link. The researcher in this article is saying it is a adequate replacement to doing $5000 RUNS on some Super Computers. Honestly, I don't know what more can be said. You blatantly ignore everything stated in the article, a fill in things its supposedly claiming that it is in fact not in anyway. Just the people that "reading" the article are assuming these things are what is being said.

    Nothing about it scratching BlueGene is ever said, or implied. Not even the list of the Top 500 Super Computers. If it did, they better have some pretty solid facts to back it up, or I would call BS on it. You are calling BS on your own assumptions. How much sense does that make? "IF Sony where to say that a PS3 was a rival to Super Computers, that would be BS. Because of this theoretical claim, I say shame on Sony and you people are fools for buying into it."

    I only called you out because you posted at least three times saying the SAME thing, and saying it's not possible when most of what has actually been claimed in the article and others is factually proven.

    Why did you choose to reply here and not to my message? Are you trying to get some cookies from 360 fan boys? Cause I didn't say anything about them to you. In the message I sent you, I pointed out the xbox because you said it could be done with any system.

    I post here, because the Mod community interests me, and this is a extension of that. I've been loosely following this kind of stuff for a long time, since high school talking about it with one of my friends. I came here hoping that this one forum could not be a Console War, and people would talk about the actually topic.

    I call you out because your like "This is all bull, marketing." And insulting the people that actually take a interest in this kind of thing. My posts express verifiable facts, or if not I hope they are taken apart and the truth revealed. You just come in here as if you know what your talking about, saying this stuff is not actually possible when facts are it is.

    If you in fact want to argue Sony's marketing, go ahead. I think its pretty poor myself. But don't attack this researcher, he had nothing to do with it. Debate the marketing, but don't attack innocent people for claims they aren't making. Hell, if you want to argue the existance and credibility of PS2 and PS3 cluster computers, do that to but atleast contribute more then "Thats not true cause I say it isn't, you are fools."

  • ChickenHounk911

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 9:40 am PT

    Ah.... the good old PS3, after one year it has found many uses BUT play good games. For those listing the same 4 games or so, STOP IT. All it has going for it is 'Resistance', maybe 'Warhawk' which IMO didn't live up to its expectations and the mediocre racer 'Motorstorm'. That's It. All the others on that short list can also be found on the 360, so why would that want 360 owners to also get a PS3? That's the point we are making, obviously the point YOU guys are missing. It's been a year now SONY, you hear us?

  • arrowj

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 8:04 am PT

    WillieDue:
    That all depends on your definition of a supercomputer. My calculator today does what an entire room full of computers did back int he 70s. Super? I think not.

    I don't care who you quote, it's all about money and if this was even remotely true, all the universities would be daisy-chaining these things around the world. The fact is, they're not.

    Dude, you don't actually think that I care about your opinion about 360 Fanoys, do you?

    You are doing nothing different than those you criticize. You talk about keeping your opinion to yourself, then rant on for a full page. Much less with a SPAM approach.

    My point is I don't care for any manufacturer to say something that isn't true. To have a "researcher" claim that this is an adequate (forget 1 to 1) swap with a supercomputer is preposterious...and you are an idiot for defending such a crazy claim.

    If you believe this, then I have got some great land that I am willing to sell you on the cheap.

    " A fool and his money are easily parted."

    I don't care who says it SONY, MS, or NIN, you cannot swap in some consoles, and call it an adequate sub for a supercomputer.

    Perhaps now, you have gained a new perspective for getting a grip. IT DOESN'T MAKE ECONOMIC SENSE.
    How about some game talk now?

    I think the PS3's rep (the ads target this) is built upon it being some kind of super chip that has yet to prove itself anywhere. The ads specifically target this approach. It needs games badly to separate itself from common vaporware.

    I would just rather them say "just you wait and see, more games are coming that will blow your mind" that to claim it can scratch BlueGene.

  • pixelsword

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 7:35 am PT

    It's easy to tell someone who doesn't own a PS3. IF you say there are NO games with games like Resistance, Motorstorm, R6V, Lair, Heavenly Sword, Warhawk, Obvilion, and others out, you don't have a clue. You couldn't finish these games in a year, let alone complain about them. Most people don't even buy that many games in a year, so get that BS out of here.

  • Devvy01

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 6:45 am PT

    Can it work out Pi?

  • Yuck_Too

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 6:41 am PT

    Glad someone is getting some use out of their PS3...

  • Williedude87

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 1:12 am PT

    Using eight Sony Playstation 3 units, Dr. Frank Mueller built a supercomputing cluster capable of high-performance computing and running the latest in computer gaming.

    Mueller, an associate professor of computer science, has built a supercomputing cluster capable of both high-performance computing and running the latest in computer gaming. His cluster of eight PS3 machines - the first such academic cluster in the world - packs the power of a small supercomputer, but at a total cost of about $5,000, it costs less than some desktop computers that have only a fraction of the computing power.

    "In the computing world there is a list of the top 500 fastest computers," Mueller says. Currently the fastest is BlueGene/L, a supercomputer with more than 130,000 processors at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. The PS3 cluster at NC State does not break into the top 500, but Mueller estimates that with approximately 10,000 PS3 machines anyone could create the fastest computer in the world - albeit with limited single-precision capabilities and networking constraints. The PS3 allows the Linux operating system to be installed, and IBM designed the programming environment for programming the Cell processor (including eight vectorization units), which combined tremendous computing power within a single PS3. According to Mueller, each PS3 unit contains six operational special-purpose cores for number crunching and one general-purpose core that is two-way multithreaded in his configuration, so the eight machines clustered have 64 logical processors, providing plenty of number-crunching ability in addition to running the latest games.

    "Jan. 3 is the 'birthdate' of this cluster," Mueller says. "Of course, here at NC State we will use it for educational purposes and for research. We are working with scientists to determine the needs and how our cluster can be used to their benefit, and our computer science faculty is already using the cluster to teach classes in operating systems, with parallel systems, compilers and gaming likely to follow."

    Published: 14:53 EST, March 09, 2007 http://www.physorg.com/news92674403.html

    And to the people saying "IF IT MAKES SUCH A GOOD SUPER COMPUTER, WHY DON'T COMPANIES JUST SELL THEM AS SUPER COMPUTERS?!?!" http://www.terrasoftsolutions.com/store/index.php?submit=software&submitimg%5Bhardware%5D%5Bsolutions%5D=1

  • sidhant3091

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 1:06 am PT

    resistance, heavenly sword, warhawk, sega rally revo, motorstorm, dirt,graw2,>>>>how the heck can neone say that the ps3 has no games there are enuff games to keep people busy till haze, ut3 and killzone come out

  • Williedude87

    Posted Oct 19, 2007 12:46 am PT

    WTF is your peoples problem? So Sony dropped off some consoles to further science.. how does that take away from them making games? This guy wrote his own code, he contacted Sony.. Sony said "Sure" probably with some sort of agreement that he would share the code he wrote and anything he learns about the console with them. Not that much time/money allocation on Sony's part, but some pretty nice benefits for them. Why would anyone complain about this?

    And for those people saying its a marketing Stunt.. get your head out of your...

    The Saddam using PS2's thing.. that rumor was started by non other then the US GOVERNMENT.. not Sony. When people started using PS2's for Cluster Computing.. the "Think Tanks" where like "They could use this to as a missal guidance system" and those same retards are the people with their hands in the pockets of our leaders. You should be angry at them, not Sony. WE payed some idiots to come up with those theories.

    "So, why doesn't Saddam Hussein simply buy computers or workstations from friendly nations or on the black market? While this is a possibility, current United Nations sanctions prohibit the sale or transfer of virtually all types of computer hardware and technology to Iraq. However, computer-based video game systems -- like the PlayStation 2 -- are not included in the ban. Iraq's scientists and engineers have apparently found a convenient loophole in the U.N. sanctions."

  • lextexrex

    Posted Oct 18, 2007 10:35 pm PT

    What? I'm researching... stuff too! I just can't afford to buy a super computer to calculate at exactly what second the world is going to end. (Psst... Sony, send me eight PS3s!)

  • therejectx

    Posted Oct 18, 2007 7:48 pm PT

    neat-o

  • arrowj

    Posted Oct 18, 2007 7:16 pm PT

    This capability isn't unique to SONY. With effort, any console can be hooked up in series and run as a big calculator. Sure it'd take millions of WIIs, but that's beside the point. This guy just happened to do it with some PS3s. That does not mean that it is somehow, mind-blowingly powerful.

    Nice to know, but this is in no way close to the real performance of an actual supercomputer though...don't kid yourself.

    Again, I have nothing against SONY, but these guys are clearly taking their focus away from games, and will get smoked in the gaming community as a result.

    I will patiently wait before buying my PS3. There's no reason to buy one now, and almost certainly the price will drop very soon.

    Truth is, with this kind of game/dev support, it'll be in the bargin basement bin in no time.

  • keyser27

    Posted Oct 18, 2007 7:08 pm PT

    Im with you on the warhawk. Ive always hated online multiplayer because of the small venues and deathmatch idiocy of seeing somebody jumping like crazy while zigzagging and shooting... but man, Warhawk is worth the purchase price of a PS3 all by itself. The sheer amount of ways you can use EVERYTHING to turn the tide is just awesome. Gears of War and Halo 3 are ok, but just plain arent as fun. I hate Xbox live because you can ALWAYS hear everything everyone is saying instead of a walkie-talkie function. Its UBER-distracted to hear roommates talking about paying bills next week when you are in combat.

  • Giratina667

    Posted Oct 18, 2007 5:55 pm PT

    See people,gaming can be applied to Science.

  • rush29

    Posted Oct 18, 2007 5:31 pm PT

    Imagine the PR that Sony would get if this guy finds the cure for some disease, from using the PS3s

  • R-Force

    Posted Oct 18, 2007 5:29 pm PT

    Good. Using the technology to help find cures is a great alternative use for it.

  • Statictrance

    Posted Oct 18, 2007 2:19 pm PT

    Sounds familiar - I'd say 99.7% of my PS3 on time since i bought it in June is folding @ home

  • jrett

    Posted Oct 18, 2007 1:47 pm PT

    Cool, now not only can my ps3 collect dust, it can also simulate collecting dust.

  • bossjimbob

    Posted Oct 18, 2007 1:11 pm PT

    My guess is that the PS3 cluster is running Linux, which has been used in clustered computing for years.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer_cluster

    Still, kind of neat they would use a game system rather than a variant of X86 hardware. In the end, this does nothing for gamers, though.

  • jogunther

    Posted Oct 18, 2007 12:51 pm PT

    When its had an equal life span I'm sure the game collection will be comparible to the PS3. 360 fandom is rampant even on cool news. Thats proof of its power as chosen supercomputer that is being tapped into.

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