Tecmo Koei concerned by motion-sensing tech

  • By Matthew Peters, GameSpot
  • Posted Jul 6, 2009 3:37 pm PT

Kenji Matsubara says Sony and Microsoft's motion-sensing controllers favor casual over core gamers, may lack "real-time response" for future fighter games.

In an interview with GameSpot last month, Microsoft Game Studios head Phil Spencer said the developer's new motion-sensing technology would target all gaming audiences, claiming Project Natal "is about everybody." However, the president of fighter game conglomerate Tecmo Koei recently said he's concerned the technology is geared only for casual gamers.

The Project Natal device will be compatible with the Xbox 360.

Speaking with UK-based Computer and Video Games, Tecmo Koei president Kenji Matsubara said he doubts that motion-sensing controllers recently unveiled by Sony and Microsoft can reach the hardcore gaming market, saying the new technology is currently too underdeveloped to support the kind of fighting games that attracts gamers to his company.

"We are very excited about the future with Project Natal and Sony's motion controllers. At the same time, we have some concerns over the fact that we specialize in making action games, so we have to explore whether we can achieve real-time response from a controller-free system," he said. "We understand that, for casual gamers playing dance games or some sort of fishing game, this controller-free system can be popular. But for hardcore gamers who like actions games, we have to research and develop games that satisfy our core gamers."

The core gamer demographic is the focus of Tecmo Koei, which was formed by the merger of Japanese publishers Tecmo and Koei on April 1. Combined, the company has published many violent fighting and action series, including Dead or Alive and Ninja Gaiden (Tecmo), and Dynasty Warriors and Samurai Warriors (Koei).

Microsoft's Project Natal and Sony's motion-sensing device were both unveiled at the 2009 Electronic Entertainment Expo. Both products enable users to communicate with a video game console through hand gestures. The Project Natal technology is also responsive to voice commands and facial expressions and is even able to sense emotions. Representatives at Sony and Microsoft could not be reached for an immediate response to Matsubara's comments.

Look below for a demo video of Project Natal.

107 Comments

  • yixingtpot

    Posted Jul 7, 2009 1:51 am PT

    Sony's had motion sensing since PS2, so why don't these A-holes say the same thing about the Wii? it's all a joke.

  • kavadias1981

    Posted Jul 7, 2009 1:44 am PT

    @joet1973

    You sounded like the Daily Mail there. Not to offend you, I'm sure you are a nice guy, I just thought it was funny.

  • joet1973

    Posted Jul 7, 2009 1:38 am PT

    Who says they aren't being pressured to utilize natal? I'm sure the white-collars are discouraging companies from making games that don't utilize the new technology; and offering incentives to companies that do use the new tech. Fear, people. I'm starting to sweat because I don't want the whole gaming market to collapse under gimmicky, shallow gameplay. I don't want the shovelware market to shift to my favorite platforms. Hardcore gamers, fear.

  • kavadias1981

    Posted Jul 7, 2009 1:25 am PT

    lol Just don't utilise the technology then. SSBB doesn't use the Wii's motion sensing tech and it works fine and sold loads. Talk about worrying over nothing.

  • jinzo9988

    Posted Jul 7, 2009 12:44 am PT

    Koei can use Natal. Just implement some sort of method for moving around a 3D world and then all you would need is detection of a fist going forward and back... and there you have it, Dynasty Warriors 307.

    All joking aside, ignore the new tech and stick to controllers. I -will not- have mocapped Ninja Gaiden 3/4.

  • bennae66

    Posted Jul 7, 2009 12:41 am PT

    on that note: tecmo, are you sure your lads in the office dont secretly work for illusion? think of the options for 'sexy beach 5.8 extreme' with natal

  • bennae66

    Posted Jul 7, 2009 12:39 am PT

    tecmo; mate; let me give you a tip: you dont have to utilise natal. you can make dead or alive extreme breast implants 3.5 in 2014 if you want to and stick to traditional controller. thats cool. maybe you would think it would be cool to navigate menus with gestures? maybe it would be cool to interact with the girls on the beach with speech and gestures? you dont need to change the games. natal can be used for enhancement. kinda like each year you 'enhance' the physics on the female models in your action games

  • coruscant

    Posted Jul 7, 2009 12:28 am PT

    I don't want motion-control games, I want my proper traditional controller, it's the only way to play a decent game, and to force games developers to make decent games i.e not Wii shovelware-type stuff. The day games are only motion-control is the day I stop playing new games and buying new games systems.

  • Units420

    Posted Jul 7, 2009 12:20 am PT

    Of course its casual gaming that's ruining the industry. Not the narrow minded "hardcore" gamers who think they have a monopoly over it all. GMAFB. Its attitudes like this that, no matter how much money this industry makes, will never be taken seriously. Cause we will continue to be seen as a bunch of high strung geeks who get their panties in a bunch over any kind of progress.

  • Genexi2

    Posted Jul 7, 2009 12:06 am PT

    @Nightflash28
    Have you ever heard of PR-produced material that was acted out and pre-meditated to look like it's the real deal?

    If you believed that Milo demo was the real deal, then you've no idea how bloody complex it is to do facial recognition in real-time, especially with consumer-level cameras. Milo demo was all fluff and acted out to try and wow people, just like the controversial Killzone2 'trailer' that was shown before PS3 was released, with everyone fighting over whether it was ingame or pre-rendered.

  • Nightflash28

    Posted Jul 7, 2009 12:00 am PT

    @ liquidvssolid
    Have you not seen the Milo demo?

  • liquidvssolid

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 11:33 pm PT

    Who on earth or heaven told Gamespot that Natal can sense emotions? I've never heard of that anywhere....or seen it for that matter. Did I miss something?

  • jazilla

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 10:45 pm PT

    it's not as if they will abandon the controller completely. sounds like a bunch of whining to me.

  • Decrate

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 10:30 pm PT

    motion controllers LAG

    i played the Wii and with shooters that thing has a noticeable response time so you cant execute quick millisecond moves that is the difference between life and death.

    the ps3 motion controller and xbox360 natal are both not going to offer close to 0 MS response, which is what regular controllers offer.

    i am sticking with my good ol controllers. the kind i've had since the NES

  • mrklorox

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 10:29 pm PT

    While I couldn't imagine a use for fighting games, I can think of dozens of uses of Natal for other hardcore genres. Shooters will benefit most.

    Keep in mind, NOBODY IS TRYING TO TAKE AWAY YOUR CONTROLLERS!!!! Natal can be used to supplement a controller, and this will be the best use for the current "hardcore gamer".

  • mullen1200

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 10:05 pm PT

    this is why I dont like the wii. It IS more casual. Theres nothing wrong with that, it just doesnt interest me

  • blackace

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 9:37 pm PT

    Some games just aren't going to work with these motion sensor devices. Those games don't need to use the technology. Games will be made from the ground up to use Microsoft and Sony's motion sensor devices. That's all there is to it.

  • Scianix-Black

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 9:04 pm PT

    Sony and Microsoft are both stupid for this motion sensing crap.

    Just let Nintendo have their fun with the casual market and quit trying to steal their target audience.

    WHERE IS THE INCENTIVE TO BUY ONE CONSOLE OVER ANOTHER?

    It died with last gen, that's where... no "hardcore" gamer is going to buy into these gimmicks and I don't see why Sony and Microsoft are too stupid to realize that.

  • terror_ninja

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 8:25 pm PT

    i totally agree with this. nearly every game that has been released so far on PS3 has some sort of stupid motion sensor BS in it. most of the games have it in there as an alternative to a button. i hope that developers realize that its not something they need to have and they can just go back to focusing on the actual game and not how the can incorporate motion sensors.

  • actsai

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 8:02 pm PT

    Well the chiropractor business would shot up or not with Koei in ruins if they either come up with Dynasty Warrior Natal/Eye Toy 2 Edition or let Natal/Eye Toy 2 gone by , I can see that they are worried. It would drag Tecmo down too.

  • Cheesehead9099

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 7:40 pm PT

    Well then Tecmo Koei shouldn't incorporate it into their games, I mean no one says they have to...

  • NightRaVeN75

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 7:31 pm PT

    though it would be cool if they did use that camera to fight with your own body in DOA5, as long as you dont have a two player versus match and beat someone to a bloody pulp

  • NightRaVeN75

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 7:30 pm PT

    Aww so that means no possible chance of dead or alive 5 using natal tech

  • chimpanchu

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 7:25 pm PT

    Isn't that's the whole reason why Sony and MS releasing motion sensor control? To tap into casual gamers market (AKA Wii market). Hardcore gamers can stick with buttons controllers while casual gamers have an option to play "wii fit" look alike on PS3 or 360.

  • 0Aragorn0

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 7:18 pm PT

    @Mike_Labeckio: Very much agree. I'm hoping the next big step is true 3D...and to even incorporate controller free would be that much more awesomeness! Maybe it'd be the next best thing since Cheeze Whiz.

  • Mike_Labeckio

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 7:13 pm PT

    I see a need for true 3D instead of simulated 3D on a 2D screen. Ok so yes the games are in 3D, but we're limited by the 2D screen. In order for these motion sensor controls to take off someone's going to have to make something that is capable of displaying true 3D environments, and we can finally call a FPS a true FPS.

  • 0Aragorn0

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 7:08 pm PT

    He is probably right in saying that the current technology will not be good enough to support fast pace action games. I can't really see a full "controller-free" shooter game or heavy action game. I CAN see really cool ideas of incorporating both controller and motion sensor. But, we can't get there if nobody makes steps towards it.

  • im-a-roustabout

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 7:04 pm PT

    The wii is really really cheap......if 360 owners and ps3 owners wanted motion sensing in there games, they would have bought the Wii instead. Sony and MS are just trying to exploit a cash cow. Can't blame them, I just hope they realize it will most likely not take off just as the motion cam for ps2 didn't really take off.

  • KBABZ

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 7:04 pm PT

    Not that Dynasty Warriors is good, but you forget that the other side of the company made Ninja Gaiden and Dead or Alive. This isn't Koei speaking anymore, it's TECMO Koei.

  • Wallenstein_155

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 7:01 pm PT

    And I love it how this time 3-4 years ago when Wii was announced both Microsoft and Sony didn't really care what Nintendo did and said, and I quote, "Nintendo is going down a different path than [Sony and Microsoft]." It's funny how Microsoft is NOW saying that motion control is the new future in gaming. I get a laugh every time.

  • Wallenstein_155

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 6:58 pm PT

    @ Solid Max13:

    Exactly. They only care about the number of people who buy the Wii, not the number of people who actually play said Wii more than once every week.

  • NikBZero

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 6:51 pm PT

    It's nice a company is worrying about core gamers and not about the causals which are runing the video game industry with such awful hollow games

  • Solid_Max13

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 6:42 pm PT

    I think Koei is correct Sony's answer and MS' answer to Nintendo was there own motion control, I could care less, give me my games, give me something new, give me something new to a genre I don't want motion controls, do they not pay attention to how many people even use the wii per day or hour.

  • StephenBassford

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 6:40 pm PT

    Why doesn't Koei worry about making Dynasty Warrior games actually fun.

  • popplayer22

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 6:40 pm PT

    A gaming console = a console, me, a controller, and my couch. If I want to fish, I'll go fishing. If I want to golf, I'll go golfing. If I want to play baseball, football, or anything else I'll go do those things. I want to play a game. Sitting on my freaking couch the way it should be. Down with motion controllers. Leave it at sixaxis please. Do nothing else.

  • squarejp

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 6:28 pm PT

    - Sparkypants,

    That really depends on how developer implement motion control and traditional controller together. It's a new area of gaming research.

    Motion Sensing games can be fun such as apply the Augmented Reality technology, kind of like eyes of judgement. With fiducials on a piece of card or table, you can use the camera to determine the 3D angle and superimpose 3D graphics on top. The motion sensing just make games more fun. The problem is if they can reach more than 60 fps to do all these computer vision processing.

  • sparkypants

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 6:25 pm PT

    They have a very valid point but Im sure everyone knew about this from the get go, those not blinded by some of the BS behind Project NATAL and the early stages of sony's controller. I mean the wii should be proof enough, hardcore games do not work(as of now) with motion control and this is either going to take off and put a lot of people out of jobs(and limiting creativity) or it could flop hard(which is honestly what I want). I like having a controller. I dont want to jump around like an idiot I want to sit back and enjoy my experiences. Think about it, would games like mass effect, InFamous, MGS4, Street Fighter etc be as fun as they are with motion controls?

  • godzillavskong

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 6:24 pm PT

    I think they should give you the option of playing certain games with or without the controller. That way if you don't feel that the motion sensing stuff is accurate enough, you can decide to pick up and play with the controller.

  • squarejp

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 6:20 pm PT

    -Celeste-

    There are many ways to determine a movement. Take camera for example, it can recognize the speed of several lanes of cars on the freeway simultaneously by calculating the pixel movements.

    Accelerometer that is used in Wii is highly inaccurate due to it calculates the position of the controller by integrating the acceleration twice. This technique is very noisy.

    What Natal uses is both camera pixel movement and infrared 3D shapes movement. The infrared camera works just like the motion capture we've seen nowadays by sending out infrared modulated light signal to the object in front and a monochrome infrared camera to read the reflected modulated light. Since the speed of light and the time of the modulated light signal travel from the source to object and back to the sensor are known, we can determine the distance between the Natal and the object immediately. When you do that many times per second, you can map out the 3D structure of the object in real time and track the motion.

  • squarejp

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 6:09 pm PT

    Yeah, Kenji is correct. The response time of the Natal is only 30 fps. It is not fast enough to capture fast motion. In action games such as street fighter, the inputs are very precise to the number of frames. Street Fighter and many fighting games have to achieve 60 fps to have a smooth control. Unless Natal can reach the state of the art system at 100 fps, otherwise, it's limited to casual games.

    I assume that they may apply the hybrid method to combine controller and motion sensing altogether. Think about in First Person Shooter, 30 fps is not smooth and often lag by a single head shot.

  • Bgrngod

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 5:25 pm PT

    Wow, this guy sure likes chiming in with the obvious right?

    Can't Koei just make a Dynasty Warriors 27.5 Xtreme Ultra where the player spins like a top the whole time and that's it? That's way more fun than what they got now. If they can't figure out how to make fun games with traditional controllers, then they are kind of already screwed.

  • etai79

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 5:25 pm PT

    I think the Wii-remote is somewhat on the border of what hardcore gamers will tolerate. The gyroscope on the Wiimotion plus does allow for a lot of precision as does the regular ol' pointer. With more complicated technologies such as gesture recognition, there is a lot more in terms of software design that goes into its success. Algorithms for gesture recognition, etc, take a lot of processing time, period. Thus, they will never be able to capture that "split-second" glory that exists only in fighters and other fast paced games (without a significant amount of money invested in developing the algorithm).

  • homer2001

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 5:17 pm PT

    alright tecmo... go ahead and complain about how you aren't able to use the technology to make the billionth dynasty warrior rehashed games

  • xunhallowed

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 5:14 pm PT

    Motion sensing can only help the Dynasty Warriors series.

  • dynomitemasta

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 5:14 pm PT

    I think BOTH Sony and MS are going to have egg on their faces when they realize that not many harder-core gamers that already have their PS3 or 360 are going to buy many motion games... I know there are very few games that I would prefer a motion controller to play with...... and Sony, without a nunchuck in the other hand like the Wimote , well it seems a bit crippled..... and Natal? I won't comment on that until I try it.

  • nintendoboy16

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 5:06 pm PT

    Something dosen't make sense here. While Team Ninja (who is owned by Tecmo) is working on a game with Nintendo (Metroid: Other M) on the Wii, which has a controller that motion senses. And they're concerned about MS and Sony's work?

    That makes no sense Tecmo.

  • CharlieFubar

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 5:04 pm PT

    i agree that the motion sensing probably wont be used much in action or fighting games... but i wouldnt be afraid of it... Im sure bethesda or lionhead will include natal in action rpgs where it might be used by the hardcore crowd... other than that, i cant wait to see the inventiveness of a controllerless game =)

  • -Celeste-

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 5:01 pm PT

    They both are making mistakes... Microsoft i say is making a bigger mistake because no controller at all... Come on, atleast sony is adding a controller...... Microsofts seems to be more aimed at net use or menu stuff... Sonys could become good because the controllers still there.... But 3rd party companies probably wont develop many games for these.....

    ---

    Except that microsofts system allows you to utilize a variety of different "controllers" more akin to props rather then holding sony's microphone and pretending its a whip, bow+arrow, or a 50lb claymore. It might make certain games wierd (where to have a boatload of weapons), but Project Natal will absolutely KILL every sports game around if they can really get that kind of accuracy. Golfing with your own golf clubs, playing baseball with a real bat, tennis with a racket.

    However, i still dont know how either MS or Sony is going to solve the movement problem unless they utilize some sort of an analog stick akin to the Wii for movement.

  • ldonyo

    Posted Jul 6, 2009 4:41 pm PT

    Cry me a river. Sounds like someone is afraid his company won't be able to figure out how to use motion sensing input devices.

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