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GO3: Q&A: The politics behind Area 51

Midway Austin creative director talks about in-game avatars, the "subversive politics" behind the upcoming shooter BlackSite, and messages in games.

At the recent GO3 Conference held in Perth, Australia, Harvey Smith--creative director for Midway's Austin studio--used his keynote speech to discuss the importance of strong character avatars within games. GameSpot AU caught up with Smith at the conference to talk about game characters and his upcoming game BlackSite: Area 51.

GameSpot AU: A lot of things go into making a great game. Where does character fit into the equation?

Harvey Smith: My thinking of that has changed a lot over time. I tend to think a lot more of archetypes, because I think people see those as compass points. In writing, often a nuanced character is very important, but in games right now a nuanced character is a confused character. You do want an interesting character that has some innovative elements, but you also want something that's recognisable in the role they play in the world. If you're talking about story games like BlackSite, then I think every character in the game needs to serve an archetypical role.

GS AU: Does working with archetypes make it easy to fall into cliche, though?

HS: Yes, I think so. One man's cliche is another man's grounded or familiar character. Cliche is undesirable, and grounded and familiar is desirable. Those things are at odds, but it's largely subjective--what is cliche versus what is recognisable. The familiar makes things more powerful. It's a fine line.

GS AU: What makes the best game avatar? A character that has a set background story or one that is a blank slate?

HS: It's a hybrid of those things. I've worked on a number of FPSs, and in BlackSite, we wanted to let the players project themselves onto our lead character Aaron Pierce as an avatar.

GS AU: You've described your upcoming game BlackSite as a "subversive military shooter." How does it compare to another "subversive" game you worked on in your past, Deus Ex?

HS: They're very different in terms of pace--Deus Ex was a role-playing, slow-paced exploration game, where BlackSite is a shooter with a very frenetic pace. But in terms of themes, in both cases the chain of command is suspect, and in both cases we ask difficult questions of the world today. In BlackSite, you play a Delta Force squad leader who's sent to Iraq to explore a weapons bunker in the middle of the desert. You find out during the course of the game that what you believe to be true is not always the case--that's very Deus Ex.

If America's Army is the right-wing shooter, I think ours is more balanced--it asks questions of both sides. Have we created these monsters that we're fighting? Is the bullet always the best way to solve problems? Who's the freedom fighter and who's the terrorist? Because our government often calls someone a freedom fighter in one decade and the next they call them a terrorist.

[But] I don't ever want the political message to get in the way of gameplay. I want BlackSite to be fast and furious. It is an intense, moody experience. But at the same time I love the subversive politics.

GS AU: Politics in games is always a touchy subject. Do you expect to get some criticism when the game gets released?

HS: I already have got some flack. I've had people say I can't believe you're touching that subject matter. I respond that I can't believe you're not--this is what's going on in the world today. We've redefined what torture is. We fund people one year, and a few years later our troops are dying fighting those same people. Shouldn't somebody be asking the questions? The potential of games is tremendous. I really take issue with people who think games are just a frivolous diversion. I think games have much more potential in terms of storytelling, in terms of interactivity, player creativity, and also in terms of teaching a lesson.

GS AU: Do you think more games should have a message?

HS: No, I don't necessarily think that. I think everyone should follow their own internal compass. I loved Serious Sam when it first came out--the goal of that team was to throw a thousand monsters onscreen at once, and that's a noble goal in my opinion. The goal of America's Army is to put a positive spin on the nation's military and get it into the hands of kids. I'm not so sure I'm happy with that goal, but hey, that's their agenda, and I don't think they should be restricted.

GS AU: Harvey Smith, thanks for your time.

126 Comments

  • Lord__Darkstorn

    Posted Nov 29, 2007 5:28 pm PT

    well, it doesn't challenge society nearly as much as Bioshock does, but I'm glad that there are more political messages in games. It helps me to identify with the devs more.

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  • Timstuff

    Posted Apr 9, 2007 2:09 pm PT

    Apparently whichever mod who's in charge of policing this article is all for the suppression of opinion. I keep seeing deleted messages everywhere, including my own. I understand that some posts really do cross the line into being offensive, but last I checked, it wasn't against the TOS to disagree with Harvey Smith when he says that they're turning terrorists into biological weapons at Gitmo bay. I don't know why I even bother posting this, because it all likelihood it'll be deleted in a few hours, and there'll be a fresh TOS violation warning waiting in my PM box, claiming that I'm responsible for "disruptive posting."

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  • drangel_jam

    Posted Apr 9, 2007 11:41 am PT

    I think games have much more potential in terms of storytelling, in terms of interactivity, player creativity, and also in terms of teaching a lesson.

    Harvey Smith--creative director for Midway's Austin studio gives a superb interview, I enjoyed playing Area 51, but I didn't end up buying it or finishing it because time and competitors hype. However, Blacksite looks like it will be aquired on the first day of release.

    I can't believe I didn't read this earlier.

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  • Erebus

    Posted Apr 8, 2007 7:08 pm PT

    Giant Douche or Turd Sandwhich -- the choice is your kids.

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  • Tequila_Zaire

    Posted Apr 8, 2007 3:28 am PT

    It's a Midway game...odds are this will suck. Still I like and support the idea...so...DON'T SCREW THIS UP MIDWAY!!!!!!!

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  • fionndruinne

    Posted Apr 8, 2007 12:20 am PT

    Hear, hear to that!

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  • PowerSwitchOff

    Posted Apr 7, 2007 11:17 pm PT

    Seems like it might be a fun game. I'll hold my judgments until I play it though, of course. However, I'm not going to take the game's "political message" too seriously. The "questions" posed by the game sound like the same questions every novel, music group, and movie made these days tries to "challenge" its audience with. Frankly its become extremely trite. Hopefully the developers will focus more on making an enjoyable game and not let their delusions of socio-political grandeur get in the way.

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  • fionndruinne

    Posted Apr 7, 2007 3:20 pm PT

    Why not put a positive spin on the military, I wonder? Harvey thinks that's not a good goal. But the military is generally a more responsible place with a better future than where most of us kids happen to be right now.

    His politics interfere with his fair mindedness.

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  • MayorJohnny

    Posted Apr 7, 2007 12:47 pm PT

    GrimGravy,

    That's ingorant. The wire tapping is for suspected threats only. FACT: President Roosevelt did the same thing for suspected Nazies in the USA. Roosevelt almost broke the law to protect lives before WWII, which is understandable. You don't see liberals bashing FDR, do you? In fact, Clinton said that FDR had the best interests of the country in mind. Clinton... The President who did definitely lie to the country. You know what, he made a big mistake! Im not a hateful liberal that loves to point out all of the imperfections of a person. I don't hate Clinton, even though I think that he was a mediocre President. Many of you liberals are hateful and intolerant.

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  • fionndruinne

    Posted Apr 7, 2007 11:25 am PT

    Alright, much of my comment was off-topic. I'm alright with it being deleted, but there are more off-topic comments here as well. Aren't they going to be modded as well?

    But I'm still confident this game is going to be a bad one. Barom's remark on other games with political undertones, well, that's just it; they're undertones. It sounds to me like this game is going for an overtone, something fundamental to the game as a creation. That, AceCometh, is why this isn't going to be a good one worth playing. Good games are made by those who want to make good games, period.

    ... and I'm still chuckling at the idea of "dirtying the name" of Clinton's administration. B-u-t that's enough on that *bows to mods*

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  • AceCometh

    Posted Apr 7, 2007 7:28 am PT

    I'm not touching the political issues here. I have no problem asking questions about this topic or hearing others ask questions about it. I just want to play good games! Oh yeah, Harvey, where's the download that will let me play Invisible War on my 360?? Give it to me NOW!!!

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  • GrimGravy

    Posted Apr 7, 2007 2:28 am PT

    how is bush violating out rights, do you really have to ask...listent o my phone calls please big brother makes me feel so warm inside

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  • MasterAsh42

    Posted Apr 6, 2007 11:34 pm PT

    Hmm. . .I doubt any messages will get in the way of the gameplay, but I'm sure the messages will give fuel to industry antagonists. . .

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  • GrimLesh

    Posted Apr 6, 2007 9:08 pm PT

    As if Clinton hasn't already "dirtied" his own administraion. LOL

    Oh, and how is Bush violating any rights?

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  • wild_world_girl

    Posted Apr 6, 2007 5:22 pm PT

    "Reality is the Bush administration is using tools created by the Clinton administration"

    Thanks for the laugh of the day. The Bush administration are violating our constitutional rights, period. Don't dirty the names of previous administrations by uttering their names in the same sentence as our surrent criminal in chief.

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  • jooohnnny

    Posted Apr 6, 2007 10:55 am PT

    GonzoGuy, yeah right your down the middle? Current administration should be executed? You call that down the middle? Lets face the facts every administration fights fire with fire, its brutal and doesn't always makes a lot of sense to the bleeding hearts of the world but, whether there Dem's or reps in office there all dirty if your going to call this one dirty. Reality is the Bush administration is using tools created by the Clinton administration, and things that the CIA and NSA have always done, not saying its right, its how cold and brutal the real world is, its the the COLD TRUTH. If I'm reading you right then everyone in the JFK administration should be executed then to for there short sighted and screwed up job they did on Cuba? Remember all the Nationals that the CIA trained to fight Castro and then JFK wouldn't back them up, and left for the slaughter? MAN WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE BURNING ON THE STOVE BEFORE YOU BURN THE HOUSE DOWN!! On second thought more like IGNORCE IS BLISS! Really a lot of people really need to start reading there history books, oh, one last thing before I end my rant, we currently spend 4.5% of our gross national product(GRP) on defence, during the cold war we were spending 10-11%, and the Soviet Union never fired a shot at us or attacked us the way where on 9-11, so I think many need to re-think how much where not spending on this fight then how little we really are! Freedom isn't free, the PRICE is paid for in BLOOD and the LIFES of our BRAVE that serve and protect US.

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  • GonzoGuy

    Posted Apr 6, 2007 8:16 am PT

    Of course I'm bitter Johnny, right or left (I'm personally somewhere in the middle but they don't have a common sense party; they really should) this current administration should be executed for treason but people are afraid to utter impeachment. That's not checks and balances. But thanks Johnny for pointing out the hypocracy of "political fanboys" (thanks again smackalicious); I don't find it too ironic that the liberals are pro choice and anti capital punishment. I find it more ironic that conservatives are always quick to point that out even though they support every war, execution, and death squad while at the same time saying they promote the culture of life just because they let a few embryos get by until they reach proper execution or military age.

    I'm loyal to the kingdom; not the king.

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  • Sagacious_Tien

    Posted Apr 6, 2007 4:42 am PT

    Looks like they cut the interview short - I want to hear more.

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  • rdo

    Posted Apr 6, 2007 12:17 am PT

    gs ended the interview just when it was getting started?

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  • barom

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 9:30 pm PT

    to fionndruinne:
    I don't necessary think that. I mean, Metal Gear Solid kinda have politic stories and so does other good games (although i can't come up with much right now). That said, I don't think BlackSite gonna be a huge hit. Just for the overall view. American games tend to be good only when they're violent lol. And notice the word "tend", not saying all, just most of them.

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  • fionndruinne

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 8:46 pm PT

    Laughable. This game, though it might get to be a media baby, won't be a success.

    Why do I say that? Because games which are created with such "agendas" in mind, whether or not they try to keep their focus on gameplay, end up being bogged-down, boring propaganda pieces.

    The good games are made by those who want to make good games, not just first and foremost, but altogether and end-of-story. Great themes become part of it through the strong beliefs of those behind the game; only because they spill through, not when they're put there on purpose.

    It's a disservice to us to make a game that tries to "present a view", but I guess it can easily fit into the growing trash-heap of bad shooters.

    Give me Halo 3 anytime.

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  • wild_world_girl

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 7:54 pm PT

    Who the hell would say "I can't believe you'd touch this subject matter?"

    I doubt the current administration could give a rat's ass what game developers do or claim.

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  • RedG375

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 7:50 pm PT

    I like the way this guy thinks. Great concept, in my opinion.

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  • MayorJohnny

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 6:48 pm PT

    It seems that some of you can't give the benefit of the doubt to the USA, yet you can talk positive about other nations. America is always the problem... Nothing is ever good enough. How disgusting.

    Many liberals are so hypocritical. Liberals are supposedly for civil liberties and more "freedom," yet they want to lessen free enterprise and bring in more regulation. Also, the death penalty is wrong, though abortion is okay!

    Many people who want "peace" sure bring out verbal hatred. Bitterness is very destructive, and it's not in just some liberals, though anyone who once expected a lot out of government, and when imperfect people can't deliver, they turn against government and let hate flow out.

    Good intentions or not, this twisted mentality is like a poison for anyone. I know that some of you will be very critical of me, because you're rude and my opinion doesn't matter.

    As for "GonzoGuy," you sound bitter and cruel.

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  • sepultrip_basic

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 4:21 pm PT

    mwa - "the truth of the matter is that these devs don't care about politics...they're just using it to hopefully garner some controversy, which will generate some buzz, which will then hopefully lead to their ultimate goal of good sales"

    Yeah, games are a business. Your point is? Games do different things to grab attention be it graphical styles, gimmicks, or story content. This is one angle of many. I agree with Harvey, why not make a game about politics? With a with the country as polarized as ours currently is, seems the smart thing to do...

    BTW - I failed to see where he was insulting our army, only the game(AA) being used as a recruiting tool towards young people.

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  • veveqa

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 2:16 pm PT

    I don't think you understand what "politically correct" means, Jerm.

    It means modifying the terms you use so that they go down well with the audience you're communicating to. That's where it all comes from. If you're communicating to a left-wing audience, it's politically correct to say different things to a right-wing audience. To say one "side" is responsible for political correctness is idiotic in the extreme.

    Some of the popular "politically correct" terms, such as Native American did emerge from left-wing thinkers, but they've been used by all sides because they WORK, because they make people think "This guy isn't a bigot, he's sensitive to my needs, I guess I'll vote for him.", and both right and left thus use them.

    Evangelical conservatives have recently been using a lot of politically correct terminology in attempts to make themselves acceptable to a larger part of the US culture (and thus serve their goal of spreading their version of "god's word"), and it's notable that they've supported a lot of bills which could be considered "politically correct". The cold hard fact is, though, if the "PC" terms we use today hadn't originated with left-wing thinkers, they'd have originated with right-wing ones. It's all about convincing people you're not evil. Neocons use "PC" terminology exclusively. You ever hear Cheney or Rumsfeld say anything un-PC? Nope. Other Republicans, sure, but the sort of people who have been in charge of late.

    The concept of political correctness has been around for thousands of years, too. It used to be called "politic" and "impolitic" instead of politically correct and politically incorrect. Why we changed from short, sensible words to long clumsy terms for the exact same thing, I don't know. That's the English language for you!

    Edit - As for the game, I think all he is really trying to say is "In my game the government is bad!". Well, real shocker there. I've never played a game where we shouldn't trust authority figures before!

    Oh wait, I played Syndicate, Half-Life, Deus Ex, Resident Evil, etc. - It's not exactly a stunningly new or orignal concept. One might as go as far as to say that it's a bit "'90s".

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  • Jermwarfare

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 2:01 pm PT

    gonzo-"lately it's been the conservative eveangelicals cramming political correctness down our throats with one hand while trying to cram their increasingly complex moral system up our other ends."

    im not going to get into a political debate but i find this amusing.....the "left" is far more responsible for the PC BS that is so prevelant in our culture....i do agree however with how much of the "right" tries to force their morality on everyone as well,just in a different way.

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  • GrimLesh

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 11:15 am PT

    Dear God I hope this game doesn't turn into a preachy, left-wing game.

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  • kamicolo

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 8:50 am PT

    Hmmm, works for me! Can Harvey really pull it off and have a game that has a dense political nature/subject matter?

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  • GonzoGuy

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 8:17 am PT

    Knifer, I kind of agree with you too except that lately it's been the conservative eveangelicals cramming political correctness down our throats with one hand while trying to cram their increasingly complex moral system up our other ends. The PC plague isn't just a liberal phenomenon anymore.

    As I said before, I don't vote for anyone who has a TV commercial; because the only way they raise that much money is by crawling into the pockets of big corporations who always end up writing the legislature now. As such I never vote for anyone in the two partys that can win an election but that's a statement in itself: I refuse to be fooled into being a "political fanboy" (great term Smackalicious) for business criminals who (despite what they say) don't give a crap about me or you.

    Before I go completely off topic, does anyone know if the movie will have the same plot. I hear the game is a spinnoff. As a lifelong NYer I consider Guliani just as much a slimeball as Hillary and if the choice is limited between the two of them, I'm going to set fire to the booth. I don't know what makes you think Gulliani can protect us Knifer. He barely survived 9/11 himself; mostly because of his own stupidity not to mention that after the first attack on the WTC he didn't think to move the emergency response bunker from its basement. Sure he wouldn't have gotten as much dramatic camera time but allot more people would've survived if he used some common sense and moved the emergency center to Brooklyn like everyone suggested.

    There's only one point of fiscal conservatism that I really despize and it's only been a factor since Reganomics: trickle down economics and Guliani is a huge fan of it. So much so now that with the reforming he started, the middle class has almost completely disappeared from NYC. There's only a few lucky souls who inherited their places who can afford to live here. And now they're taking away the subsidised housing for the poor too. My only question is when they finally make NYC an Upper Class only gheto, who's going to serve them their coffee or answer their phones. They're going to have to open 5 more universities to fill in that manpower. Now who they can get to teach there, I have no idea.

    As for Hillary, well lets face it, Gamers don't need any more reasons to hate that pandering opportunist.

    This whole thing has gotten me wondering how many gamers are really interested in politics. This article sparked a dialogue, perhaps more action games should incorporate current events and metaphores for real debates. Many games (in my opinion) could use a little more relevance in the story area.

    My apologies to anyone who I bored to tears here.

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  • smackalicious

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 6:11 am PT

    It really is cute to watch kids "talk" politics. All they are doing is spewing the same stuff they hear and read elsewhere and feel all "enlightened". I got a great idea. Forget everything you know, spend a few years actually researching the issues around you, and then make your own decision on what you stand for.

    Otherwise, by staying ignorant and taking sides, you only come off as a sheep.

    I'll give you a head start: If you believe that one party of the government is "more correct" than the other...you are a sheep. Don't be a political fanboy...

    Oh yeah...this game looks like it will get lost in the midst of dozens of mediocre FPS's...where is the real innovation here?

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  • Unassigned

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 6:09 am PT

    50Cents game sucked.

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  • dommeus

    Posted Apr 5, 2007 1:10 am PT

    At least he's willing to voice his opinions, and he appears to be quite intelligent. Hopefully the game will be good!

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  • SnuffDaddyNZ

    Posted Apr 4, 2007 10:08 pm PT

    The bullet is sometimes the best way to solve problems.

    Despite what this idiot Harvey Smith is saying, America should be proud of their military, and this is coming from a non-american.

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  • Lightchaos

    Posted Apr 4, 2007 9:31 pm PT

    hmm interesting

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  • crazy_boy166

    Posted Apr 4, 2007 8:32 pm PT

    that game looks pretty good

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  • KniferHitandRun

    Posted Apr 4, 2007 8:30 pm PT

    GonzoGuy i gotta say I agree mostly with you. But the difference is that I would rather a crazy conservative (and Bush is NOT a conservative), than a politically correct freak like most liberals are. After all, we have freedom in this country and Islamic nations suppress their women and marry them off by 2nd grade. That's why I'm supporting Rudy. He may be socially liberal, but the country is. He's a fiscal conservative and maybe he can fix the debt. Plus, he'll kill the terrorists before they kill us. Sure, he has some marriage and personal issues, but that never stopped Bill Clinton from serving the country well.
    Oh, and Hilary would not be the first woman President, she's a man in a whale's body.

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  • MxO

    Posted Apr 4, 2007 7:47 pm PT

    Harvey Smith: "I've worked on a number of FPSs, and in BlackSite, we wanted to let the players project themselves onto our lead character Aaron Pierce as an avatar."

    What, no word on formerly mentioned alternate characters, Brick Hardcheese, Rock Penetrate, and Double Entendre? For shame.

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  • KnightsofRound

    Posted Apr 4, 2007 7:02 pm PT

    I wish they would make another Deus Ex game. Deus Ex was awesome.

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  • BetMonty

    Posted Apr 4, 2007 6:12 pm PT

    Hard to trust a man who calls Deus Ex a slow paced exploration RPG. He's quite obviously already heavily invested in rewriting the definitions of several words.

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  • ecofriend

    Posted Apr 4, 2007 4:05 pm PT

    I think I will buy the game just based on how this guy, Harvey Smith, thinks.

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  • danof76

    Posted Apr 4, 2007 3:06 pm PT

    Aaron Pierce is the main character? Did anyone else notice this is the same name as a loyalist Secret Service agent in the TV series 24? I think the only character aside from Jack to appear in all six seasons.

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  • GonzoGuy

    Posted Apr 4, 2007 1:47 pm PT

    You have to admit he has gotten us more interested in the game. I wasn't really too curious about it until I read this interview. I'm pretty sick of FPSs but I'm at least going to rent this.

    As for the politics here (my own opinion is that politicians on the left and right are crooked con men who only have a talet for getting and keeping office; I still vote but never for anyone with a TV commercial): I don't think Liberals (at least none of the ones I know) are under any sort of false impression that the politicians on the left are free of corruption either. Most will admit that Bill Clinton did so many other things that deserved prosecution. However the offenses of the right tend to be more widespread, deadly, racist, and hypocritical. Yes liberal politicians are mostly useless, but I'd rather have someone useless like Carter in office than a destuctive maniac racist moron like Bush whose only goal is to get back at his father for the years of being the joke of the family.

    When it comes to loyalty though (I'm not sure this is good or bad) conservatives will not admit to their partys failure until Regans ghost visits them to tell first hand how horrable hell is. Take the neo-con (most fitting name) movement. These neo-cons have somehow convinced consevatives to follow them and vote for whatever they're told (no matter how bigoted and un-American it is) despite the fact that they aren't conservative about anything.

    This current administration wants to call itself conservative but they have wasted more resources, lives, and oportunities than any sort of left wing administation in my lifetime. We started this centurey with an incredible surplus of $ and are now in deeper debt than at any point in this country's history. Past even the nuclear arms race. I honestly don't know what's stopping the real conservatives from calling for Bush's head.

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  • Bgrngod

    Posted Apr 4, 2007 12:58 pm PT

    Hahahahaha. These comments are making me laugh. Please keep it up. "Omg..my chance to look all politically smart and stuff!!" Oh you kids.

    It's a video game one way or another. I bet no one even notices the "politics" while playing the game.

    The dude does make good points about asking questions of our government etc, but that's about were it ends. Trying to geta political point across in a video game called Blacksite: Area 51? Yeeeaaah.. shot and a miss.

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  • Bgrngod

    Posted Apr 4, 2007 12:45 pm PT

    The_Owner - "In answer to your question shootspeed....no."
    ==========================================

    Yes you do, if you want to be able to vote in the primaries for a specific party. If you select "other" then you can't vote for a party specific election and you get stuck with whatever douche bags and pieces of @#$% make it to the final general election.

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