Politics and game competition collide

  • By Patrick Caldwell, GameSpot
  • Posted Jul 5, 2006 3:44 pm PT

Saudi Arabian and former Pro Evolution champion withdraws from fourth-annual Electronic Sports World Cup due to being pitted opposite an Israeli.

The ongoing conflict in the Middle East between Israelis and Palestinians caused a competitor at last weekend's European-based Electronic Sports World Cup to boycott the event--because he was scheduled to play against an Israeli.

"Unfortunately, the draw put me against an Israeli player, and due to our stand against the Israeli aggression and occupation of Palestine, I raised my voice and said there was no way I was going to play against this guy," the English-language newspaper Arab News quoted 21-year-old Badr Hakeem as saying.

"I cannot play against a guy from a country that occupies the holy land of Palestine," he said.

Hakeem, who is from Saudi Arabia, won the Pro Evolution Soccer 4 competition at last year's Electronic Sports World Cup, but he forfeited his chance to win or even compete in the Pro Evolution 5 tournament this year. The Electronic Sports World Cup 2006 also features Counter-Strike, Quake IV, Warcraft 3, and other game tournaments outside the realm of traditional sports, and it wrapped up in Paris, France, over the weekend.

"I know I am losing my title, but I am standing for our cause," Hakeem said. "The title is not important to me. I believe I have made the right decision."

Frenchman Bruce Grannec, also known as "Spank," went on to win the Pro Evolution 5 tournament, while the Israeli player to whom Hakeem objected did not rank in the top eight, according to the final results on the Electronic Sports World Cup's Web site.

97 Comments

  • alsha3er78

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 6:09 pm PT

    i don't have a problem with israelis, but i do have a problem with zionests. u see zionest to jews are like alqaida to muslims. they have no problem slaughtering kids, women, or do anything to advance their cause. i have a lot jewish friends and i can tell the difference. u can take sides based on your beliefs. however, u need to keep an open mind as to what the other side believes in. unfortunatley, there is nothing about zionism and alqaida that is good. both are equaly criminal. i just can't stand people who are so blinded by what their braines were fed as kids. people who see the bad things in others, but think their own sh!t does not stink.
    u don't have to agree with what that guy did. i just recomend to look at his side of the story.
    oh and buy the way. who the hell said that gamers are stupid and divorced from reality? we are talking about polotics aren't we? i think that is smart people do. (sometimes)

  • iwannarockagain

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:51 pm PT

    tk_1 said
    i just wanted to say something ,dahomedizzle2 you speak of "israeli soldiers" killing arab families totaly innocent this are the families of terrorists that hold weppons and explosives for killing us the israelis and you know a terrorist killed my aunt and her two little boys talking about innocent . you know what they teach people in Palestinian schools and even kindergartens they teach them to hate us (songs and all kind of disgusting stuff) they promise the suicide bombers that if they will blow themselves up and kill us they will go to heaven and there will be waiting 65 virgin women for them you must think that i hate you because your a Palestinian but i dont i just hate the mot********rs that are killing us because we belong to a certain group if thats not racism then tell me what is...

    Me----------------- That's hilirious. I was unlucky enough to have lived in palestine for a year, and that year was the First Grade. I honest to God was never taught any of that. It was just normal school with subpar standards really. This is just a simple problem of you listening to BS propoganda and taking it as fact when you really have no sources.

  • LukeCube

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:51 pm PT

    Religion + Games = Serious Business.

  • TWalsh3378

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:50 pm PT

    Bloodoflamb

    Thats a great point. I may be a little self centered here because I was personally touched by 911, my uncle was in tower 2. But I remember them showing scenese from the middle east on september 11 2001 and seeing people out in the streets burning U.S flags and ephigies ( thats probably spelled wrong) of Bush. yet when something like the Abu prison scandal or the Haditha killings come out, Americans popular opinion was to be ashamed of their own military and called for our own soldiers to be brought to justice. seems like a double negative to me.

  • NintendoDSShugo

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:50 pm PT

    Religions are pretty f'd up alright

  • dahomedizzle2

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:49 pm PT

    OK, I have been to a Palestinan school and the only weird thing I saw was the children were beat for doing something bad. A school being attacked has terrorists carrying weapons? Hmm... Oh and why would you kill the whole family? What have the children done? I am sure the little kids know how to use weapons.

  • tk_1

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:46 pm PT

    i just wanted to say something ,dahomedizzle2 you speak of "israeli soldiers" killing arab families totaly innocent this are the families of terrorists that hold weppons and explosives for killing us the israelis and you know a terrorist killed my aunt and her two little boys talking about innocent . you know what they teach people in Palestinian schools and even kindergartens they teach them to hate us (songs and all kind of disgusting stuff) they promise the suicide bombers that if they will blow themselves up and kill us they will go to heaven and there will be waiting 65 virgin women for them you must think that i hate you because your a Palestinian but i dont i just hate the mot********rs that are killing us because we belong to a certain group if thats not racism then tell me what is...

  • dahomedizzle2

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:46 pm PT

    I am sorry Oden, but once I read your first few lines I laughed. Isreali soldiers DON"T attack Palestinian civilians purposely? Wow, the countless documentaries I have seen made by British reporters show soldiers shooting at schools, the news I see showing people killed. You are trying to make yourself sound good by typing lines saying I am incorrect. Might as well say I am really, really, really..... wrong. Everyone knows about suicide bombing because that is all that is shown. What about the shooting and bombing done on Arabs? You keep saying how I don't mention how Jews are killed by Arabs, but what you say sounds childish. You sound like a kid trying to explain why they broke their friends bike. " I accidently ran it into a big trash can."

  • agent401

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:41 pm PT

    "Christians that do they things you describe aren't Christians. Just as suicide bombers who kill innocent people aren't Muslims."

    Exactly. People can do any atrocious thing in the name of God, but that certainly doesn't make it right, or make everyone who practices the religion they are "representing" ignorant and intolerant.

  • Bloodoflamb

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:41 pm PT

    I don't understand how anyone could honestly believe that the Israeli army purposefully kills innocent Palestinian civilians. What purpose would that serve? To give the Palestinians a rallying point, or created more suicide bombings?

  • TWalsh3378

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:40 pm PT

    Hey Agent401 I commerorate you for being the only other poster on here to research his statements and back them up with facts and do see the statement in the bible but I think you will find this article interesting

    http://homepage.ntlworld.com/robin.brace/1NEW.htm

    So it depends on how you interpret the bible and even how you act when you are drunk. I think the best thing for us to do on this topic is agree to disagree. I just wish more people in the world would be like you and I see that most of this violence is based on stupid disagreements.

  • jokinjosh73

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:38 pm PT

    TWalsh3378
    "When did I say i get drunk jokinjosh73?

    What I am trying to say is that Jesus provided wine for his people, he never actually put a Blood alcohol limit on it. Not that I am saying he would ever promote drunkeness, all I am saying his he did not say anything against it. Too many people in both Christianity and Islam try to put their own opinions in a religous context. No where did Jesus or Mohammed ever promote violence yet the Irish Republican Army and Islamists everywhere claim they kill in the name of God. "

    I was trying to prove a point about drunkeness. So nevermind. Anyway, speaking on the other issue you raised you are correct about Jesus and his teachings, however you are mis-informed about Mohammed. The Koran is full of passages encouraging voilence and killing those of other beliefs. The modern Muslims have thankfully disregarded these teachings but the problem stems from the fundamentalists.

    I'll get alot of crap for this but here it is:

    If you take Christianity to the extreme you would sell your house and all that you own and give it to the poor, go to a third world country, help the sick and hungry, regardless of how they believe.

    If you take Islam to the extreme you torture and kill those who don't believe as you do.

  • iwannarockagain

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:37 pm PT

    Odin897 said:
    So dahomedizzle2, do the elderly people and children that the Arab terrorists deliberately target i Israel not count? You need to step back from whatever propoganda outlet your getting your info from, because the Israelis have never intentionally targeted civilians. The reason Palestinian civilians get hurt is 1) They make a mistake in an airstikes and accidentally hit civilian areas, 2) The terrorists use the civilians as human shields to use as propoganda against the Israelis, and 3) they fake the brutality as more propoganda. I can't even count the number of graphic explanations and videos of how the Palestinians doctor those photos of brutality and coach other palestinians to blame it on Israel. The other major reason they get hurt is because of their dogmatic hatred of Israel. The issue is not that Israel is occupying their land (which is a load of crap if you actually look at the factual circumstances surrounding how that state came into existence), the Issue is that a state that was founded as a Jewish state and not an Islamic state is on their turf. It is the hatred of the jews themselves that drives them, which perfectly explains why they voted for Hamas. However much it was the Israelis fault before, it is ALL the Palestinians fault now. I am not happy that this is the state of affairs now, I would rather they had chosen peace. But frankly, I am happy to see them get their comeuppance for all the crap they've been doing to the Israelis while sitting behind their shield of unfettered Western sympathy which they've been using for the past 4 decades.. Its going to be interesting and refreshing to see how they deal with their loss of limitless personal irresponsibility for their own actions.

    Me-------- You are way too naive.

  • Bloodoflamb

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:34 pm PT

    Christians that do they things you describe aren't Christians. Just as suicide bombers who kill innocent people aren't Muslims.

  • Odin897

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:34 pm PT

    So dahomedizzle2, do the elderly people and children that the Arab terrorists deliberately target i Israel not count? You need to step back from whatever propoganda outlet your getting your info from, because the Israelis have never intentionally targeted civilians. The reason Palestinian civilians get hurt is 1) They make a mistake in an airstikes and accidentally hit civilian areas, 2) The terrorists use the civilians as human shields to use as propoganda against the Israelis, and 3) they fake the brutality as more propoganda. I can't even count the number of graphic explanations and videos of how the Palestinians doctor those photos of brutality and coach other palestinians to blame it on Israel. The other major reason they get hurt is because of their dogmatic hatred of Israel. The issue is not that Israel is occupying their land (which is a load of crap if you actually look at the factual circumstances surrounding how that state came into existence), the Issue is that a state that was founded as a Jewish state and not an Islamic state is on their turf. It is the hatred of the jews themselves that drives them, which perfectly explains why they voted for Hamas. However much it was the Israelis fault before, it is ALL the Palestinians fault now. I am not happy that this is the state of affairs now, I would rather they had chosen peace. But frankly, I am happy to see them get their comeuppance for all the crap they've been doing to the Israelis while sitting behind their shield of unfettered Western sympathy which they've been using for the past 4 decades.. Its going to be interesting and refreshing to see how they deal with their loss of limitless personal irresponsibility for their own actions.

  • iwannarockagain

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:33 pm PT

    Odin897
    He did not want to play against him because to do so would be to recognize that Israel is actually a legitimate state entity that can legally send someone in to represent them. The "palestinian cause" is a red herring, it has been since the Soviet Union's KGB invented it. If the Palestinians (this term is inaccurate anyway, real Palestinians haven't existed since before the Moslem conquests initiated by Mohammed) did truly want peace and to progress, they would ask to annex themselves with Israel. It certainly would have been a good idea if they had; Israel gives equal rights to all of its citizens, there is no other place in the Arab world where actual ARABS are given more personal and political freedom than Israel. Or better yet, they could have accepted the 2-state solution offerred to them in every single negotiation for peace that the Israelis gave them from the 1960s to the 1990s.

    Me-------- LOL please, in that case real Israelis haven't existed since the Israelites. All these people are immigrants from Germany and Russia. Oh and please don't say palestinians are given freedom, they basically have no rights. They are retained whenever, wherever at anytime for any reason by the Israeli army. As for the 2-state solution, a recent poll showed that over 88% of palestinians were behind the plan. The only reason they voted Hamas in was because they were sick of the corrupt BS they were getting from Fatah.

    To dahomedizzle2: You would do well to find some impartial historical material as opposed to the blatant propoganda you have been inundated with. You have the gall to blame Israel for killing palestinians, but I haven't heard you say a God damned thing about how the Arabs of Palestine blatantly target Israel's civilian population, or how the terrorists use children as shields when the Israels actually engage them, or how the terrorists have disguised themselves as pregnant women when approaching those checkpoints (which you decry so heavily) and then blown themselves up when Israeli soldiers approach to give aid. And lets not forget about how the ir leaders have spent billions on weapons and munitions while allowing their infrastructure to implode in on itself and allow their civilian populations to starve. The Israeli soldiers did not force the Palestinians to accept an irrational dogma of hatred against them, they chose it themselves. I dare you to look at any single peace agreement that Israel has proposed to the Palestinian Arabs (not the doctored one's that the propoganda leaders in the Arab world have been propogating) through the UN or the US and then tell me with a straight face that the Palestinians actually want peace. They do not want peace; it is a blatant lie. Their election of Hamas is proof of it.

    Me---------Once again, you are showing an extremely biased view. Anybody with knowledge of what was going on in Palestine under the Fatah party would realize the people were simpley sick of living under poverty, so they decided for the first time in 60 years, to try another party. The people voted them in because of their countless social programs dedicated to actually help their own people, and hoping they would change their views to moderate views. Who wants peace and who doesn't? As a response to the kidnapped soldier, Israel atacked a palestinian school. Yes. A school. Since 2000, 734 palestinian children have died compared to 121 israeli children. Any innocent death is wrong, but that is an extremely lopsided total. Israel has been targeted by at least 65 UN resolutions!!! 65!!! 0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians and 4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000.60+ new Jewish-only settlements have been built on confiscated Palestinian land between March 2001 and July 11, 2003. There have been 0 cases of Palestinians confiscating Israeli land and building settlements.


    And as to the occupation, maybe you ought to actually look at the progress that the Israelis made in their "occupied areas" before telling me that they were oppresing the hell out of them. When Israel was in Gaza since 1967 they pumped hundreds of millions of dollars in to build hospitals, businesses, and infrastructure that the Palestinian Arabs in the area had free access to. While the PLA governed areas were hellholes with mass illiteracy and unemployment, the Israeli controlled areas had hospitals, universities, and very little unemployment. Don't believe me? Look around on the internet for the UN Economic reports for the Occupied Gaza strip from '67 to the Israeli pull out and look at them yourself. You'll be hard pressed to find areas in the whole of the Arab world (controlled by Arabs) that were as prosperous

    Me---------- LOL, didn't Israel just recently come out with a law barring any Palestinians of working in Israel?

  • richmini9_basic

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:32 pm PT

    With some of the comments I'm reading here I find it funny people accusing the Badr Hakeem with being ignorant. How Christians Do things? Didn't they swindle, and kill the majority of people native to North America? Didn't the Vatican just now apologize to Israel for turning their backs on the Jews during the Holocoast? Aren't Klan meetings always kicked of with a prayer, a bible, and a cross? Don't even get me started on the neo-cons made-up war in Iraq; the only secular Arab country in the region. Before people start spouting off about "superior" christian culture, you may want to take a hard look at the facts. Getting upset about someone peacefully boycotting a video games seems sort of childish considering a the strife going on in the region. Again, who is being ignorant?

  • AncientDozer

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:31 pm PT

    Odin, you douche. Normally I prefer these forums not to be turned into a political arena, but considering the topic and considering your post. . . it's hard to resist. I think it's you who has fallen prey to the various propaganda that is constantly thrown at us through the media. Now, I'm not really against Israeli (although I am still bitter about the USS Liberty incident; look it up if you don't know) or some pro Palestinian person (or vice versa), but Israeli isn't doing anything to help itself. The revenge policy isn't cutting it at all. Nor do idiots like you who claim to be impartial when they're still just spewing one-sided garbage. Years upon years of violence is proof of it.

  • agent401

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:30 pm PT

    "Bottom line, all religions are messed up. Some (Scientology I'm looking at you) are REALLY messed up. They preach togetherness, but only seem capable of tearing us apart. In a way Religion is just like smoking, they're both bad habits no one WANTS to quit. "

    It's not religion's fault. Only the uneducated radicals who think they they have to kill everyone who's not of their religion.

  • jokinjosh73

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:27 pm PT

    iwannarockagain
    jokinjosh73 said
    "OK first, the land is Israel's, like it or not that was decided over 50 years ago. Beyond that it was theirs 3,000 years ago so they win.

    ----- Interesting, if the fact that they had the land 3,000 years ago to only lose it for a thousand years had any relevance at all, then why was Argentina being considered as the land for Israel? Nothing was decided over 50 years ago, just because over 1.5 million palestinians have been kicked out of their own homes, doesn't mean anything has been decided. There are still over a million palestinians living in Israel/Palestine. This isn't a game, you don't "win". By your logic, the native americans win because they had this land just hundreds of years ago.

    Josh It was decided by the UN that Israel gets the land. They weren't "kicked out" of their homes either. Read this.
    http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

    Second, suicide bombing is not, I repeat NOT a defensive move. Going into a crowded market place filled with women and children who have nothing to do with anything and blowing them into peices is not defensive. If they were truly trying to fight a war they would do it against the Israeli war military not innocent civilians.

    Me-------- Now i'm not one to defend a suicide bomber in any way shape or form. But unlike you, i don't support the killing of ANY innocent people, palestinian or israeli. If you are going to condemn the suicide bombers for killing innocent people, you MUST condemn the Israeli army as well as they continue to kill innocent palestinian civilians on a daily basis. There are far less suicide bombings then people make it out to be, but a lot more Israeli army killings. That in no means justifies it though, both sides that kill innocent people are WRONG. You can't only blame suicide bombers though, because 3 times as much palestinians have died than Israelis.

    Josh- How many freakin times do the Israeli's have to give up land and call a cease fire only to have hamas or some other "death to all jews" group start things up again. The reason Israel kills 3 times as many people as the suicide bombers do is because that's, unfortunately, the only thing these people understand. They don't listen to resean, you can't compromise with them, so you have to somehow make them understand that it is a losing proposition to keep up this war.

    Third, I agree with you here but you don't look at people to see God. People are hypocrite's and fall way to easily. If you want to know what true Christianity is look at the people in Muslim countries or China. People who are routinely tortured and put to death just because the believe in Jesus. Those are the people who stand up for what they believe, who truly take up their cross and lay down their lives for each other and for Christ. "

    Me----------- Please don't imply christians are routinely tortured in muslim countries. There are plenty of Palestinian christians, and they get along just fine with the palestinian muslims. In Lebonon , lebonese christians and muslims get along just fine as well.

    Josh- There are always exceptions, however Christians die every at the hands of Communists and Muslims. You can't deny it and pointing out a lone instance where they live in relative peace in a Muslim controlled country makes no difference.

  • Bloodoflamb

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:24 pm PT

    The Jews removed the Canaanites AFTER they returned to the Holy Land from their enslavement by the Egyptians.

    The Kingdom of Israel is the first nation to exist in Israel.

  • agent401

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:24 pm PT

    "Back it up with a fact Agent401. Drunkeness is neither one of the 7 deadly sins nor one of the 10 commandments."

    "The acts of sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, imputrity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft, hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God." - Galatians 5:19-21

  • MechaMenchi

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:23 pm PT

    Bottom line, all religions are messed up. Some (Scientology I'm looking at you) are REALLY messed up. They preach togetherness, but only seem capable of tearing us apart. In a way Religion is just like smoking, they're both bad habits no one WANTS to quit.

  • TWalsh3378

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:23 pm PT

    When did I say i get drunk jokinjosh73?

    What I am trying to say is that Jesus provided wine for his people, he never actually put a Blood alcohol limit on it. Not that I am saying he would ever promote drunkeness, all I am saying his he did not say anything against it. Too many people in both Christianity and Islam try to put their own opinions in a religous context. No where did Jesus or Mohammed ever promote violence yet the Irish Republican Army and Islamists everywhere claim they kill in the name of God.

  • dahomedizzle2

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:23 pm PT

    Odin, what I am saying is true. To your pregnant woman statement, your saying after a bombing, you are never going to allow an Arab to have a baby in a hospital anymore? I am telling you what I see on Arab and American news. I see the Arabs killing the Israelis and the Israelis killing the Arabs, but all you guys see are the Arabs killing the Israelis.

  • Pfilosophy

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:19 pm PT

    I love you guys.

  • Odin897

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:15 pm PT

    He did not want to play against him because to do so would be to recognize that Israel is actually a legitimate state entity that can legally send someone in to represent them. The "palestinian cause" is a red herring, it has been since the Soviet Union's KGB invented it. If the Palestinians (this term is inaccurate anyway, real Palestinians haven't existed since before the Moslem conquests initiated by Mohammed) did truly want peace and to progress, they would ask to annex themselves with Israel. It certainly would have been a good idea if they had; Israel gives equal rights to all of its citizens, there is no other place in the Arab world where actual ARABS are given more personal and political freedom than Israel. Or better yet, they could have accepted the 2-state solution offerred to them in every single negotiation for peace that the Israelis gave them from the 1960s to the 1990s.


    To dahomedizzle2: You would do well to find some impartial historical material as opposed to the blatant propoganda you have been inundated with. You have the gall to blame Israel for killing palestinians, but I haven't heard you say a God damned thing about how the Arabs of Palestine blatantly target Israel's civilian population, or how the terrorists use children as shields when the Israels actually engage them, or how the terrorists have disguised themselves as pregnant women when approaching those checkpoints (which you decry so heavily) and then blown themselves up when Israeli soldiers approach to give aid. And lets not forget about how the ir leaders have spent billions on weapons and munitions while allowing their infrastructure to implode in on itself and allow their civilian populations to starve. The Israeli soldiers did not force the Palestinians to accept an irrational dogma of hatred against them, they chose it themselves. I dare you to look at any single peace agreement that Israel has proposed to the Palestinian Arabs (not the doctored one's that the propoganda leaders in the Arab world have been propogating) through the UN or the US and then tell me with a straight face that the Palestinians actually want peace. They do not want peace; it is a blatant lie. Their election of Hamas is proof of it.

    And as to the occupation, maybe you ought to actually look at the progress that the Israelis made in their "occupied areas" before telling me that they were oppresing the hell out of them. When Israel was in Gaza since 1967 they pumped hundreds of millions of dollars in to build hospitals, businesses, and infrastructure that the Palestinian Arabs in the area had free access to. While the PLA governed areas were hellholes with mass illiteracy and unemployment, the Israeli controlled areas had hospitals, universities, and very little unemployment. Don't believe me? Look around on the internet for the UN Economic reports for the Occupied Gaza strip from '67 to the Israeli pull out and look at them yourself. You'll be hard pressed to find areas in the whole of the Arab world (controlled by Arabs) that were as prosperous.

  • jokinjosh73

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:14 pm PT

    TWalsh3378
    "Back it up with a fact Agent401. Drunkeness is neither one of the 7 deadly sins nor one of the 10 commandments"

    Let me ask you this, why do you get drunk?

  • iwannarockagain

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:14 pm PT

    jokinjosh73 said
    "OK first, the land is Israel's, like it or not that was decided over 50 years ago. Beyond that it was theirs 3,000 years ago so they win.

    Me----- Interesting, if the fact that they had the land 3,000 years ago to only lose it for a thousand years had any relevance at all, then why was Argentina being considered as the land for Israel? Nothing was decided over 50 years ago, just because over 1.5 million palestinians have been kicked out of their own homes, doesn't mean anything has been decided. There are still over a million palestinians living in Israel/Palestine. This isn't a game, you don't "win". By your logic, the native americans win because they had this land just hundreds of years ago.

    Second, suicide bombing is not, I repeat NOT a defensive move. Going into a crowded market place filled with women and children who have nothing to do with anything and blowing them into peices is not defensive. If they were truly trying to fight a war they would do it against the Israeli war military not innocent civilians.

    Me-------- Now i'm not one to defend a suicide bomber in any way shape or form. But unlike you, i don't support the killing of ANY innocent people, palestinian or israeli. If you are going to condemn the suicide bombers for killing innocent people, you MUST condemn the Israeli army as well as they continue to kill innocent palestinian civilians on a daily basis. There are far less suicide bombings then people make it out to be, but a lot more Israeli army killings. That in no means justifies it though, both sides that kill innocent people are WRONG. You can't only blame suicide bombers though, because 3 times as much palestinians have died than Israelis.

    Third, I agree with you here but you don't look at people to see God. People are hypocrite's and fall way to easily. If you want to know what true Christianity is look at the people in Muslim countries or China. People who are routinely tortured and put to death just because the believe in Jesus. Those are the people who stand up for what they believe, who truly take up their cross and lay down their lives for each other and for Christ. "

    Me----------- Please don't imply christians are routinely tortured in muslim countries. There are plenty of Palestinian christians, and they get along just fine with the palestinian muslims. In Lebonon , lebonese christians and muslims get along just fine as well.

  • stalin_ksa

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:14 pm PT

    Satisfying bloodthirst... Guess hitler tought them few tricks

  • dahomedizzle2

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:12 pm PT

    They are killing three times as many people, how is that retaliating. Isn't the definition of retaliating to pay back? Also, do you realize children, men, and women, are killed at checkpoints. Unborn children die because laboring are stopped at checkpoints.What is the point of not allowing a woman to have her child at a hospital. Why are random people killed at checkpoints?

  • CPM_basic

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:11 pm PT

    People have to stop killing each other over religion. These people need to be more educated to realize there is so much more to life than violence.

    We are all people... I don't care what country your from or what your skin color is... we all come from the same ancestors. Peace out.

  • stalin_ksa

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:11 pm PT

    jokinjosh ... maybe cuz isreal didnt exist before 1940s
    Wonder who attacked the other first hmmm...
    btw palastin doesnt have an army

  • jokinjosh73

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:08 pm PT

    dahomedizzle2
    "OK, so it is okay for women and children to be killed by guns. "

    That is done in retaliation. If they would leave Israel alone they would leave them alone.

  • Lupus64

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:07 pm PT

    Well, I can respect the guy's decision, certainly. As an anglo-saxon aussie I don't have any personal involvement in the situation in the middle-east, besides a sick feeling every time I see on the news a story about the ongoing cycle of violence being perpetuated by both sides. But I can understand withdrawing over something you believe strongly in, and I think that's courageous, rather than stupid, racist or cowardly like some people on here have suggested.
    Oh, and to those that are saying the Palestinians brought it on themselves by voting in Hamas, yknow, that's the problem with democracy, sometimes you get bad people in power. Take the current US government for instance...

  • TWalsh3378

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:06 pm PT

    Back it up with a fact Agent401. Drunkeness is neither one of the 7 deadly sins nor one of the 10 commandments.

  • gamer_10001

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:06 pm PT

    To hate/dislike someone without even knowing them, because of where they live, their heritage, race, religion, ect. is just plain ignorance.

  • dahomedizzle2

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:05 pm PT

    OK, so it is okay for women and children to be killed by guns. Thank you for clarifying that for me. Also, the first people to settle the land of Palestine were Arabs.

  • jokinjosh73

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:05 pm PT


    dahomedizzle2
    "OK, I know Hamas was voted in, but having sex before marriage is legal in Christianity? Am I wrong? Sorry. Anyway, Muslims respect Christians and Jews calling them People of the Book. "

    No that is wrong. He didn't say it was ok. He was talking about smoking and drinking. It isn't the drinking that is the sin. It is the drunkeness. If you have a beer now and then it isn't a sin, it is when you get drunk that is the problem. Nothing in and of itself is evil, but the heart of man is desperately wicked. It's what people do with things and when things become an addiction that is the problem.

  • agent401

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:04 pm PT

    "While the Bible does say honor your body as a temple, it actually does not say anything against smoking or drinking, both practiced at the time the bible was written"

    No the bible does condemn drunkenness as a sin

  • TWalsh3378

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:03 pm PT

    iwannarockagain

    I apologize because I can't find any evidence of 17 so I can't back up my statement with a fact at this time, this is the best I can find

    http://www.digitaljournalist.org/issue0412/dis_sinclair.html

    But it does state "Palestinian medical officials reported 120 people injured, 4 from shrapnel and stray bullets."

    Now find me facts about how many were injured at Pope John Pauls funereal, we paid him our respect through orderly prayer, Palestinians (not all) acted like savages.

  • rimnet00

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:03 pm PT

    i hate isreal

  • lebanese_boy

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:03 pm PT

    Well you gotta be in his place. He has all these bad souvenirs about israelis so people want him to compete and have with one ? This is simply stupid from the people who have putted them against each other because they should know about that.

  • stalin_ksa

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:02 pm PT

    Well using the same reasoning Native Americans should arm themselves and take back their land... with genociding and pillaging...

    Saladin took back his land after kicking some crusadies ass... History will repeat it self...

  • iwannarockagain

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:01 pm PT

    jimbo6923 said
    "What else would you expect? These are the same people that flipped out and killed innocent people over a friggin' cartoon."

    You have no clue what you're talking about, so please don't talk at all.

  • dahomedizzle2

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:01 pm PT

    If I am correct, weren't the Canaanintes in Palestine before the Jews? Canaanites are Arabs.

  • Berserker_2

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:00 pm PT

    He's afraid to lose against an Israeli.

  • jokinjosh73

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 5:00 pm PT

    dahomedizzle2
    OK, IF they lived with their land, there are still the checkpoints where people are killed and tortured and laboring women are stopped from going to hospitals. Also, Israeli soldiers go to Palestinian towns and search poeples houses. Suicide bombing is their only defense. They don't have an army. I also see why most of you guys think this is stupid. I believe( and so do many other people around the world not just Muslims) think that Christianity isn't even practiced anymore. All the kids I see in school smoke, do drugs, and do stuff they shouldn't. The only time they are good is at church(most ppl don't even go.) Try watching some Al-Jazeera or search something up on the Palestinian Israeli conflict.

    OK first, the land is Israel's, like it or not that was decided over 50 years ago. Beyond that it was theirs 3,000 years ago so they win.

    Second, suicide bombing is not, I repeat NOT a defensive move. Going into a crowded market place filled with women and children who have nothing to do with anything and blowing them into peices is not defensive. If they were truly trying to fight a war they would do it against the Israeli war military not innocent civilians.

    Third, I agree with you here but you don't look at people to see God. People are hypocrite's and fall way to easily. If you want to know what true Christianity is look at the people in Muslim countries or China. People who are routinely tortured and put to death just because the believe in Jesus. Those are the people who stand up for what they believe, who truly take up their cross and lay down their lives for each other and for Christ.

  • dahomedizzle2

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 4:58 pm PT

    OK, I know Hamas was voted in, but having sex before marriage is legal in Christianity? Am I wrong? Sorry. Anyway, Muslims respect Christians and Jews calling them People of the Book.

  • jimbo6923

    Posted Jul 5, 2006 4:58 pm PT

    What else would you expect? These are the same people that flipped out and killed innocent people over a friggin' cartoon.

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