UK court: PS2 is no computer

British tax court rules that Sony's current-gen console is a games device, not an 'automatic data processing machine'; multimillion euro rebate quashed as a result.

It's official: The PlayStation 2 is not a computer--in the UK, anyway.

A legal argument involving duty paid by Sony on PlayStation 2 imports into Europe has finally been resolved by a UK Court of Appeal, although it's not good news for the console giant. Sony had hoped to claim up to 50 million euros in a form of rebate based on its description of the console's functionality, but the latest appeal has been overturned.

The row came about in 2001 and centres on European legislation that deals with taxes levied on goods imported into the European Community. Each type of product that lands in Europe must be classified under a specific code, and that code defines the amount of duty to be paid.

When the PlayStation 2 started shipping in 2000 it was classified by customs authorities under subheading 9504 10 00 as 'video games of a kind used with a television receiver'. This meant that Sony was required to pay a 1.7 percent duty in 2001, 1.1 percent in 2002, and 0.6 percent in 2003, adding up to a total of around 50 million euros.

Since January 2004, the level has been set at zero, but Sony contested the decision to classify the PlayStation 2 under that particular subheading, maintaining instead that it should have been imported under 8471 10 00 and classified as an 'automatic data processing machine', a code that would have levied no duty at all. The view generally held on the matter is that the difference between the two codes roughly defines the difference between consoles and computers--given that the PlayStation 2 is 'not freely programmable' it is not classed as a computer and therefore falls under the 9504 code. After an initial ruling against Sony's claim by the VAT and Duties Tribunal in October 2004, the company appealed, and now that appeal has also been dismissed.

Lord Justice Chadwick, presiding over the case, had some harsh words for the appellant, stating that the case filed went 'beyond what can be regarded as acceptable written advocacy: it exceeds the bounds of propriety'. He was referring to 'repeated aspersions that are cast in that document on the intellectual honesty of the High Court Judge from whose decision this appeal is brought'. Sony's appeal text had stated that the judge 'often completely misrepresented the text of documents', 'deliberately misinterprets part of the review decision', and accused him of 'trampling over the evidence in which the High Court has allowed itself to indulge'. However, the Lord Justice's comments were effectively a rap on the knuckles for Sony's counsel in the case and have no bearing on the ruling itself, nor do they reflect on Sony as a company.

According to Struan Robertson, technology lawyer with Pinsent Masons, the ruling shouldn't have any effect on the imports of future consoles because the levy on both codes now stands at zero. It's an important point given the forthcoming launch of the PlayStation 3, which Sony executives have repeatedly referred to as a full-fledged computer.

An official statement from Sony said, 'At present, SCEE [Sony Computer Entertainment Europe] is considering the implications of the judgment in detail and will decide what further action to take in due course'.

149 Comments

  • coltACP

    Posted Jun 28, 2006 8:39 am PT

    A computer is for computing things that YOU input into the thing, storing the data and being able to manipulate that data. You cannot do that on a PS2 without a computer hooked up to it-LOL. Yeah PS2 processes Game data, but YOU don't have anything to do with that. If every person could bring up a spread sheet or document on the PS2 and manipulate it freely they would have won, it doesn't do it so it is not a computer in it's traditional sense. simple.

  • Sadat87

    Posted Jun 26, 2006 7:41 am PT

    sony is mad .

  • kx6593

    Posted Jun 25, 2006 7:56 pm PT

    The PS2 is a console, not a computer. The end. The PS3 maybe a different story but that doesnt change what the PS2 is.

  • jsambeckwith

    Posted Jun 24, 2006 1:02 pm PT

    The Playstation 2 is not a computer in this sense of the word, as in freely programmable, and able to have programs installed on it, and run all variety of programs. The PS2 can run some programs, but not of all varieties.

  • Davidhalo18

    Posted Jun 24, 2006 12:43 pm PT

    Sony Vaio = Personal Compupter
    Sony Playstation = Gaming Console

    I think determining the fact of what a computer is essentially for ( creative tools, internet, communications, porn and more porn ) sony couldnt get away with it until the PS3 comes out.

  • Equilibrium_340

    Posted Jun 24, 2006 8:55 am PT

    Whaddya know, Sony was saying that the PS3 is a computer. Just goes to show you that they see gamers as mindless zombies that'll buy any console sporting the Playstation logo.

  • Dark_Link87

    Posted Jun 23, 2006 8:20 pm PT

    i herby declair the ps2 just a dvd player *BANGS GABBLE*

  • shazaila

    Posted Jun 23, 2006 7:52 pm PT

    Quite frankly, i couldn't careless.

  • Lukanot

    Posted Jun 23, 2006 12:17 pm PT

    its true. A ps2 is a games console not a computer

  • Sanguis_Malus

    Posted Jun 23, 2006 6:24 am PT

    Once again this is a prime example of a major organisation believing that its stature will provide a licence to win.
    Sony really are incredibly arrogant ! To try and persuade a UK court of Law that a games machine should actually be classed as computer is ludicrous.
    If the tax issue was in reverse then Sony would be screaming the emphasis of games , not computing.
    This is England , you can't pull the wool over the judges eyes and expect them to take the provided information as accurate just because you are a multinational electronics empire.
    Shame on you Sony, pay taxes like everybody else. Greedy corporate swines !

  • Dantes_Monkey

    Posted Jun 23, 2006 4:41 am PT

    lol, good old sony, they have been fleased of quite a bit of $£ recently so it is about time they tried to get some back.

  • kainenable

    Posted Jun 23, 2006 3:45 am PT

    The ps2 is as much a computer as it is a bannana sundae. C'mon sony, your loosing cred. Are you going to re-label the PS1 as a soft drink dispenser now just to get a little bit of money back? This is smelling a bit desperate.

  • K1LLSWITCH

    Posted Jun 23, 2006 1:28 am PT

    Who cares

  • millrboyz

    Posted Jun 22, 2006 6:19 pm PT

    i dont care what anybody tells me its a video game console FIRST! thats it end of story. ok ok i see their game. how about this, if they dont , make games for the PS2 (or PS3) would it be able to hold its own? i dont think so. unlike computers the PS2 and PS3 NEED games or else it will fail.

    end of stroy

  • R3last

    Posted Jun 22, 2006 2:31 pm PT

    Yeah and if they did get their money back on this ridiculous appeal, you can guarantee it wasn't going to be used to lower the ps3 pricepoint.

  • goku2000

    Posted Jun 22, 2006 1:54 pm PT

    Sony has had its fair share of luck, they let the pride get to their heads, and now look at them. Oh well, they'll make that money back off of people buying more systems due to disc read errors.

  • Halexandre

    Posted Jun 22, 2006 12:31 pm PT

    Maybe Sony really should walk hand-to-hand with Apple: the PS3 would be considered a computer and people would buy it for $3000 with a smile on their faces...
    Sometimes laws and aconomics are... AFFFFFF!

  • i_love_my_ds

    Posted Jun 22, 2006 11:00 am PT

    that kinda sucks.....

  • Kravyn81

    Posted Jun 22, 2006 10:23 am PT

    I have only one thing to say regarding this article: Uh duh!

  • bunty_007

    Posted Jun 22, 2006 6:50 am PT

    No it's not a computer. $ony just wants to make money, even the graffics are not that good much.

  • otakuboy68

    Posted Jun 22, 2006 4:45 am PT

    well it does have DNAS, and you do hav that system browser to delete memory blocks from your memory card, and thats basically all i do on my computer in addition to playing games. oh wait, yeah, internet. thats what i was forgetting. it doesnt hav that.

  • nathanfist

    Posted Jun 22, 2006 1:25 am PT

    Sony can't say it's a computer. it's not a computer. If it is, gamespot should tear off the PS3 tab and shove it under the PC tab. Plus it would be the end of playstation because that was a console, not a computer.

  • PelekotansDream

    Posted Jun 22, 2006 12:38 am PT

    This is all just confusing. All I know is that Sony are trying to classify the PS2 as a computer to save money or get more. Either way the PS2 is far from a computer, since when are games consoles computers? Does this mean my sega game gear is a game console?

  • Karjah

    Posted Jun 22, 2006 12:03 am PT

    Tell you what the day I can pop in any software cd be it a word processing program or a bitorrent downloader wtih a complete working web browser you can call it a computer.

    You can't do that with a ps2 it's only as much a computer as your standard dvd player.

    No discount for you.

  • nev70

    Posted Jun 22, 2006 12:00 am PT

    Court of appeal that IS NOT CHEAP! wtf are sony on!

  • nextgenisps3

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 11:06 pm PT

    nintendorocks

    man what r u talking about? how does the PS2 calculate graphics and shadows if it's not an automatic data processing machine. That judge doesnt know what he's talking about. anyways...

  • rynmls

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 9:29 pm PT

    have a nice day sony...

  • LittleYoshi

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 9:03 pm PT

    PS3 will be like a computer, but its still just a game console.
    A computer game system has a better graphics hardware system. Then a just plain game console.
    Which makes games look more real.

  • nintendorocks

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 7:04 pm PT

    Glad the UK got that straightend out. That's doesn't make any sense. Why would a PS2 be a 'automatic data processing machine' and why is it taking the UK so long to figure this out? A strange story indeed....

  • ZEELIX

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 6:23 pm PT

    look, pc= personal computer and computer=a machine that manipulates data so as a console its a computer. of course it is not personal cuz you dont store mp3 on it etc. and so on. it is in fact true like korn said.
    still on a side note with the external hdd for ffxi would that maybe change it?
    just curious.

  • Kingofunrealuk

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 5:37 pm PT

    Not been a fun day for Sony huh?

  • cyprus646

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 5:31 pm PT

    Does it really matter if it is considered a PC ? I mean just to dodge import charges is really stupid.$ony just stick to calling it a game console.

  • LOLO_BOND

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 5:17 pm PT

    if the ps3 is fully programavle then sony will stop to sell its desktop computer...

  • sitgom

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 5:04 pm PT

    Everyone knows that the ps2 was never a full fledged computer. sony lied because they didn't want to pay money for tax.

  • granalf

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 5:00 pm PT

    The only reason they are trying to classify it as a computer is so that they can get some of the money they paid on taxes back.

  • Mr_Bodywave

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 4:53 pm PT

    Sony should have just whipped out their HD and linux parts and booted it up and SHOWED that it was a computer that they sold. It would be different if people had hacked linux onto it--but it isn't that--Sony themselves was selling it.

  • BrandonC3000

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 4:42 pm PT

    PS2 is a computer with an operating system purely limited to correctly formatted games, and DVD's. Would I conceder it a PERSONAL Computer(PC), no... but a computer... yes. It's no less of a computer, then a solar powered calculator. This is not to say that every thing that has a computer chip in it, is a computer... no. However, the PS2 can be, and should be classified as a computer, just not a PC.

  • rubaducky69

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 4:16 pm PT

    Maybe if Sony wasn't so harsh regarding anti-piracy, and would allow others to mod and expand the console, maybe then it could have been classified a "Budget Computing Unit"

    Have the PS2 run your Linux server or even your home security system - Yeah!

  • NeoJedi

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 4:09 pm PT

    Ah well, can't say that Sony didn't try...

  • puolikuusi

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 3:58 pm PT

    Computer is a tool,
    console is a toy.

  • UmonDaisuke

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 3:50 pm PT

    "Im an ms fanboy but i have to say. the reason ms doesnt get into any of these problems is because it has so much money "

    You sure are, but you should know that the first Xbox didn't make MS any money and cost them $5 billion over 4 years, while both Nintendo and Sony made money on their consoles. They haven't broke even on the 360 either.

    Ballmer recently rallied investors by saying that the losses ($5 billion and counting) are cheaper than buying a company like Nintendo, so they should bear with it.

  • IsmirZone

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 3:38 pm PT

    It can run LINUX....Need I say more? Just perfect a UK court can decide what it is. The creator makes it and decides what it is. I say no more.

  • spyrewolf

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 3:29 pm PT

    HUH?!? um no... you can 'freely program' the PS2, when i bought my PS2 i got that 'PS2 basic' disc, which alows you do basically that, PROGRAM!

    hell a basic calculator can be classed as a computer of some sorts, doesn't anything which "computes numbers of some sort class as a computer"

    this is nit picking,

  • GS_darkplayer

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 3:19 pm PT

    Ha ha Sony in trubble. And what they will get trubble next . Having very high prices on PS3 they go broke. And that the fact.

  • elementfx

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 2:43 pm PT

    So sony wanted the PS2 to fall under the class of a computer? Hmmmm, and all for money? A little greedy I think.

  • DrKill09

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 2:30 pm PT

    I always laughed at the name "Playstation 2 computer entertainment system". The XBox was much more pc like.

  • troakun

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 2:25 pm PT

    This brings up a good point. What is truely the difference between a PC and a gaming device? They both compute, they both game, they both come in a box, they both... oh no wait this is stupid. PS2 =/= computer.

  • UntoldDreams

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 2:21 pm PT

    Hahaha... Wait a second... The millions and millions of copies of God of War and Kingdom Hearts 1 & 2 being sold is a total fluke then?
    :-) Come on...

  • Maquis_UK

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 2:15 pm PT

    in my opinion ( and i had a ps2 so don't flame me ) the ps2 is barely a games console either. its a second rate dvd player that cant even deal with mps3. rubbish.

  • jthechosenone

    Posted Jun 21, 2006 1:50 pm PT

    im an ms fanboy but i have to say. the reason ms doesnt get into any of these problems is because it has so much money that it doesnt need to fight for anything. if ms looses money they're like..."o well". dont compare sony or any company to ms because they are in a diff situation.

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