Posted Apr 26, 2006 7:43 pm PT

PS3 on veins!!
It will come with Blu-Ray and the best line of GAMES!!
YUUPPPPP

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Posted Apr 22, 2006 10:21 pm PT

geeze, you guys write too much..... HD has the name going for it.

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Posted Apr 21, 2006 3:00 pm PT

Except that were in the early infancy of this format war. I keep on stressing that and you dont seem to express this in your posts. Indeed everything you say is true, but it would apply if we were a couple years into this coming format war, in which case the prices of both formats players and media would be at a significantly lower level, therefore accessible to the general consumer (and possibly even equal prices for movies in either format). Both you and I can say that we would buy an HD-DVD over a Blu-Ray right now because we both KNOW what either of those Names mean, where to buy them, their respective prices, and what they both offer. But the average consumer now doesnt even know that these two new formats exist. Or, at the very least, theyve heard of them but havent looked into it. So even if we know about BR and HD now, dont expect any real competition to come of it till the PS3 launches (which will effectively raise consumer awareness of at least one of these two formats), at the very least.

Regarding the rest, there just seems to be a lack of HD-DVD information online in general. It took me .5 google seconds to get blu-ray.com, which offers information regarding absolutely everything Blu-Ray, including high quality images displaying a wide variety of different players, as well as the different media storage discs; yet Ive still not found any images of HD-DVD players besides the one recently released. I dont think this has anything to do with possible backlash from the BDA, but instead I think these companies may have been told to reveal as little as possible about other HD players in an effort to increase sales of the one single player they introduced just recently. Considering they lack a catalyst such as the PS3, this seems like a smart strategy to get the few, more fanatical consumers who sometimes save up for a more expensive version of an existing player, to dish out the cash for this more basic one now. Clever marketing strategy if you ask me.

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Posted Apr 21, 2006 1:31 pm PT

If the majority of the movies were published and distributed by Sony then this would be over. Fact is they arent. For a movie company to release a movie there has to be a demand. That is an obvious point. Now consider from a business point that if to combat your competition you sweeten the deal with the neutral party. To swing them more to your side instead of facing the objector head on. We all know Square and the ties they have with Sony. Now they are a third party with first party exclusives. Not because they believe the game wouldnt sell on another platform but because of agreements put in place to keep said developer or game from being available for a competing system. This is true practice for a first party (or second party) developer but a third should be equally responsive to the general public demand. The neutrality of the movie industry will only add to the acceptance of BOTH formats. It sucks that a game I want is not available for a system but then it makes me feel better that I can get it for this other one instead. We may all say we dont pick sides but it is a lie. I had this happen not to long ago. A game for the xbox was sold out so I decided to get it for the PS2. Still the same game AND it was available now. If consumers see it from the choice perspective and are given that choice of HD or BR format movie then they will choose whichever is cost effective or whichever one is available at that time.

The problem with the general consumers is lack of awareness. you will have those that only look at Intel computers and never think that an AMD would do the same thing for what they are wanting to do. A big part of this "lack of awareness" goes to the representative of stores who don't really know the answers themselves. Take for example Fry's. I have found myself having to answer questions even to their employees. It was recently stated that maybe only about 3 hd players were sent to each retailer. No big setup to announce the newest product and build cunsumer awareness. All they did was sit them on a shelf. Could it be because not even they know how to properly display it or is there more involved from the corporate level. Pretty much every retailer is guilty of what I am about to write. Promotion is largely based on kick backs. Whoever provides the best offer to display their products gets the best spot on the shelf. Marketing is key to acceptance. I am betting there is a really good campaign for HD DVD yet we may not see it until the release of BR. Not for the reason of the HD side holding back but because of the BR side requesting the toneing down of that campaign until BR release. I have worked retail and can say first hand that the 3 major retailers in the country are guilty of downplaying a promotion because of outside influence. In most respects you can get more $$ from promoting (or the lack of) a product than the actual sales. It all has to do with the way the word is spread to the public.

From a technical standpoint I concide that BR has a greater longevity. Yet so was DVD when it was originally introduced. I do like the idea of increased storage. Yet you have to admit that from a cost point it is easier to convert existing DVD units to HD as well as the movies than it is for BR. Maybe cost isn't your thing but in this economy it is to the majority of consumers. I won't be able to afford BR give the current prices of gas lately so I will have to go with HD. And yet the movies will still be the same as I don't have an HDTV. What I am wondering about is where are the other HD players? Toshiba is the most vocal about having one but the other companies (Pioneer, Samsung, etc) all have one in development. Perhaps they are affraid of the backlash they would receive from other member of the BDA for having a "neutral" position after swearing loyalty to the dark side. It is almost as if these days companies don't want to take risks on something they may feel inside as being a winner. Without the guts to show face then they all just cower behind the big kid.

Also, just a thought. Check out the sponsered links at the bottom of this "HD-DVD" article. I don't know about you but on my screen it is all BR stuff. Links from target and Best Buy with tag lines of "Best picture and sound" You would think GS could pair up the proper sponsor links with the article in question. It sort of adds to my point of the way companies influence consumer awareness.

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Posted Apr 21, 2006 9:41 am PT

""I read that as if (to put into perspective) a guy wants to go out but cant because his girlfriend keeps saying she is not ready and he has been ready and waiting for an hour or more. That tells me the other players are already done. Even though it says June 06 for a release date, they could have been released a few months ago. Ahead of HD. My guess is the others had the bugs worked out but due to the preassure (i am guessing again) from sony to want to be the big name at the front. They are holding back. Maybe it is for a larger lineup of movies maybe not but the fact is they are holding back. Speculation can be that Sony stil has problems and asks the others to hold off some more.""

As interesting as that perspective is, its just speculation. Also, were really early in the format war. REALLY early. From a business standpoint, its not actually gonna hurt Sony or its backers at all to launch just a couple months later than their rivals, specifically because the total amount of HD-DVD units that have been shipped and purchased already is ridiculously small. Like I mentioned in a pervious post, they sent a total of 3 players to every store they were scheduled to send them too. This is definite proof that only the avid fans of HD-DVD and a few collectors who were dead set on purchasing the players were the ones who purchased them. This isnt a big deal, because then the Blu-Ray fans will wait till June to purchase their Blu-Ray Players anyway, and the avid collectors will purchase them because they knew about Blu-Ray already as well. We wont be seeing any actual progress in the format war till the PS3 is launched, and its what ive been debating on ths comments page since close to when it started.

Also, although I do agree that players that can read both formats are being developed and will help people who wish to purchase both a Blu-Ray and HD-DVD, this will still serve to confuse the general consumer. A victor must emerge from this war, and the studios know this. Why? Because its not just the varying players that pose a problem, its the movies released on them. With some studios releasing their movies on both, many collectors will be forced to buy both versions of a movie, and for the general consumer, itll just create a headache of which version to buy. In the end, one single format is still going to be far better than 2 ,even with multireading players. I believe that most studios are releasing movies to both players, as a declaration of neutrality till the PS3 is released. I think, that their betting the PS3 will either win the war for the Blu-Ray, or lose it, and their just silently waiting till that catalyst comes about, so that their backing changes accordingly, to fully determine who wins the war (cause ultimately, studio backing WILL determine the victor).

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Posted Apr 21, 2006 9:14 am PT

If you read the last part of the first paragraph from the blue-ray wikipedia ink it states "After working with the Blu-ray technology, Sony realized that additional effort would be necessary, and announced that the release date of their PlayStation 3 would be postponed until fall of 2006. The Blu-ray Disc Association followed suit by also postponing the release date of Blu-ray products in U.S. stores until June of 2006."

I read that as if (to put into perspective) a guy wants to go out but cant because his girlfriend keeps saying she is not ready and he has been ready and waiting for an hour or more. That tells me the other players are already done. Even though it says June 06 for a release date, they could have been released a few months ago. Ahead of HD. My guess is the others had the bugs worked out but due to the preassure (i am guessing again) from sony to want to be the big name at the front. They are holding back. Maybe it is for a larger lineup of movies maybe not but the fact is they are holding back. Speculation can be that Sony stil has problems and asks the others to hold off some more.

I also find it interesting in both links that HD and BR use the same laser and in essence could read each other formats with some fine tuning. I believe LG is making a dual player which if others follw, then we have another +/- divided media format that would be unified by the consumer. I personally like the fact I can burn either type and use either type for specific situations. The consumer, having a multi format player, can benefit from buying an HD movie only to see that there is a "collectors eddition" in BR format. It is that way with DVD already. You will make the point that it is still the same format for deluxe and regular editions but it can be seen that way for these enhanced formats as well. I predict within a year there will be multi format players from the likes of Pioneer, Panasonic, Toshiba and Sony. Yet it will be the lesser known brands that will break down the confusion of which to buy and based on cost, consumers tend to lean to the best bang for the buck. If they see a Symphonic HD/BR player sitting next to both a Sony BR and Toshiba HD player and its price is right in between the two, they will more than likely buy that one.

Oh and bleehart...it WAS Sony that basically created blue ray from thei existing PDD format. They simply took what they had and asked others if they would be interested in adopting it for home use. So began the blue-ray disc association.

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Posted Apr 21, 2006 1:00 am PT

bleu rayyyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Posted Apr 20, 2006 8:17 pm PT

I've read a lot of stuff that is true and a lot that isn't so far. The fact of the matter is that Blue Ray is not a "Sony" exclusive technology. Blue Ray was developed by Sony, Samsung, Pioneer, LG, Panasonic, etc..collectively thus providing intellectual rights to all parties involved and avoiding the impending format war that we have recently entered. Toshiba was invited to participate in the product development as well, however once they refused and started the HD DVD, they single-handedly caused the very thing the industry was trying to avoid. Good Job TOSHIBA !

In response to a previous post regarding the difference in quality from standard DVD to the next generation format it is simply this; movies recorded pre-digital I agree are not likely to look much better, if any, than their DVD counterparts. However movies that are being filmed today, many of which are being done digitally, will look drastically better on Blue-Ray when compared to our current DVD format. Pioneer displayed identical video at CES, DVD on one side and Blue Ray on the other. The difference was astonishing and the detail was drastic. People who say they won't be able to see the difference have obviously never seen such a demonstration.

Price is of course a big issue. Whether it's $500.00 or $1,000.00 the fact of the matter is it is still much more than most standard DVD players. Only the "gotta have it now" and "wealthy" are going to invest so heavily in either technology this early in the game, especially with the risk involved.
Nobody seems to remember that the first DVD players that came out were also $1,000.00 and had very limited content available. My first DVD player, as it was for many of you, was the original PS2 and the same will likely be said when the PS3 hits shelves in November.

Ultimately it is the consumer who will determine the winner in this battle and frankly when average people are looking to upgrade this Christmas, they will see 10 Blue Ray players to 1 HD DVD player. Which one would you pick? The Consumer Electronics industry has already established the clear winner in all of this. Now the only question is whether or not you do too.

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Posted Apr 20, 2006 4:22 pm PT

I understand what your saying and it makes perfect sense, but at the same time, setting up two very different formats, one for PC and one for movies would serve to further alienate the average consumer. Also, the other thing that concerns me is the future proof problem. Yes, Blu-Ray is more expensive now, as its just about to release in June as a player and in November in a video game system, but my worry is that well need to do yet ANOTHER format upgrade to holographic versatile discs because well lack space sometime in the next five years with the HD-DVD format. As much as people who have posted in this article say to the contrary, HD-DVD was first idealized as a solution to a commonly occuring problem of insufficient space on regular DVD's as well as on dual layered DVD's.
Even if HD-DVD discs can be made with multiple layers and not just dual layers, even the quad layered version of the HD's would be 80GB less than a quad layered Blu-Ray. Where am I going with this? Well, even Microsoft has pointed out that the future of Media is to bypass the storage medium altogether. To download content that you would otherwise purchase in some form of disc or drive directly from the source itself. But to do this, one must recognize that a complete change in the current media distribution business infrastructure must be made. Which would also mean an Incredible loss of jobs worldwide, and of course, at the other end, in the business realm of online software/media distribution, a seemingly insatiable amount of jobs would be created. This change therefore must be transient, and in the meantime, for those that dont download content through cyberspace, new storage mediums must be introduced. But if we consistently reintroduce new storage mediums, itll be hard to wean the general consumer into a completely online distribution structure model. With that said, considering that Blu-Ray has the bigger potential of the two to last the longest, possibly for another 10 years even, it can be surmised that we would use fewer storage mediums before we arrive at a point where we can complete the transition from an offline, tangible media distribution, to a complete online media distribution structure. This would not only be a reduction in time in the transition process, but, in a more conservative view, an immeasurable reduction in resources used.

O and one last question from my part:
""I read both of those links and one thing stuck out. The fact that the other companies producing BD players decided to hold back until Sony was ready to release theirs.""

How did you derive that? o_0 Or should I be asking, could you please rephrase?

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Posted Apr 20, 2006 2:09 pm PT

Imavnas, I read both of those links and one thing stuck out. The fact that the other companies producing BD players decided to hold back until Sony was ready to release theirs. Why? Only they really know but it would have been better to have them on the market. Remember DVD was an already established format by the time the PS2 came out so it was a simple convenience to add that type of drive to the console. BD is a new format and one not backed by the DVD forum. It may not be a big deal about that but what does it say to the consumers that a new format is coming out that isnt supported by the very industry that created DVD. Risky move but one I hope pays off. If the third party mfgs push quickly for a BD/HD dvd player then the format wars will continue. Much like they have for +/-R media. It seems that BD was geared as a successor to the PDD (another Sony only format) for data storage where as HD DVD was the successor to DVD. So then it should be as I had mentioned. Keep the movies on a format accepted by the industry and general public and make the new stuff for PC enthusiests.

Cost is key despite all the benifits of BD. HD DVD does what the movie industry is looking to do when it comes to High Def video reproduction. It almost looks as if BD was an afterthought from PDD. It is only obvious that a production company will not invest the $$ to fill up a BD let alone an HD disc. As cool as it would be to have the entire series of a show on a single disc it isnt cost effective to do so. Not only the cost to produce the media but also the production cost for all the content being put on a single disc. As you say with lord of the rings. Can the studio afford to make the packaging with all those movies on one disc and then sell it at a price people could afford? Another thing of interest is the ICT which is a requirement but no one will use it. I say why not. If the person doesn't have the hardware to play it correctly, let it dumb itself down to what it detects. It works for PC games why not movies? So long as it has the least minimum level of standard DVD.

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Posted Apr 20, 2006 9:47 am PT

skyvader:

First im going to respond to your second post: The movie companies wont using HD-DVDs capacity to the maximum either. You can technically fit the 12 dvds included in the entire extended collection of Lord of the Rings into 2 dual layered HD-DVD's, but I assure you if and when New Line Cinema releases Lord of the Rings on either of the new formats, itll be far more discs than it really requires, even if they do release it in full HD.

Now to answer your first post:
Bringing the PS3 out in Spring wouldve been hard to do without major hitches ala 360's launch. If Sony can pull together and launch their PS3 correctly in November we might actually have a first for system launches,an actual, fully successful video game console launch. Even with the head start HD-DVD has, it would be hard to counter such a successful launch of fully functional Blu-Ray drives in such a short amount of time. (These are all still If's of course)
Besides this, Blu-Ray is a completely new format, not an extension of the existing format like DVD-RAM. To make Blu-Ray for storage only and HD-DVD for movies would mean an incredible hassle for consumers who download clips or movies legally and wish to burn them for viewing on a big screen via a player. There would need to be a player that could read both a Blu-Ray disc and an HD-DVD Disc. Although there are several companies developing such players now, that kind of commercial setup will just serve to further alienate the everyday consumer from electronics. In other words, not very user friendly. The best way to solve this up and coming format war woudlve been to come to an agreement for a disc format in between both, but alas, it was attempted without results.
Now in regards to the rest of your post, I direct you towards my post responding to Autolycus and the links contained therein.


*************************************************

On a completely unrelated note: (Gamespot should really post important news faster): THE PS2's PRICE HAS OFFICIALLY BEEN DROPPED TO 129.99 IN THE STATES, FOLLOWING ANALYST COLIN SEBASTIAN OF LAZARD CAPITALS PREDICTION OF A PS2 PRICE CUT LAST WEEK.

Source: http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=16236

************************************************

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Posted Apr 20, 2006 9:06 am PT

Autolycus: The differences are a bit more than you think:

http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_vs_hddvd_comparison

And btw, Minidisc isnt dead, its just that Apple has literally drowned out alot of its competition with its Ipod line of players. And UMD is available on only one single player: the PSP. You cant possiby compare a whole new universal format to either of these. And, to further my sources for information read the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu_Ray

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD

Tell me which one you support after reading all that.

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Posted Apr 20, 2006 8:28 am PT

To add one more point...movie companies won't be using the capacity of a BR disc. I don't want to hear about how you can have different versions of the same movie on the disc because you can already do that in DVD. Audio tracks and such are no system sellers unless you can take and make a combo disc that includes the movie AND a full version of the game based on the movie. I have seen many a DVD that will include a demo game of that movie when you insert it into the xbox. The same can be said about the UMB of wipeout pure: stealth eddition. It has the movie stealth and a custom version of wipeout pure. If sony wants to do things right then they need to make these combo discs with movies and games (full versions of both) on this higher capacity format otherwise it is a waste of space.

Anyone tell me why there are tv's that support 480p and 1080i but no 720p in between? I have seen many on the market that don't hit that middle number.

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Posted Apr 20, 2006 8:20 am PT

The only advantage BR has is capacity. Yet what is that capacity being used for? It is like having a 74 minute CD vs a 80 90 or 120 minute cd. Point is the publishers still only put the music at a fraction of the capacity. Movies will still only take up as much space as they are created to. A 2 hour movie is still a 2 hour movie no matter what disc it is on. As far as compression goes...ids there a absolutely noticable difference in HD and BR? That same 2 hour movie being played at 1080i on both an HD player and BR player is going to be extremely difficult to tell the difference. So it comes down to features on the disc. AKA exclusive content! Who is to say HD can't have more layers? Just cause it wasn't announced as fact doesn't mean it hasn't been thought of. Sony is doing it the wrong way. They should have brought out the PS3 in the spring. It would have trumped the HD release and hit the 360 where it counts. It would have also forced MS to decide on changing out the components of the 360 to fight back. Adding a larger hdd and a HD drive would have pushed the battel of HD vs BR into level playing fields. Also, of the 7 movie companies who are supporting BR...only Sony and its subsidiaries are committed. There are HD movies in the works (just kept under wraps) by the other companies. If BR takes a delay again you watch and see how fast movies from Disney and Fox and Lions Gate and others will start popping up in HD.

I like the idea of increased storage in BR. Let that be the PC storage medium and let HD be for movies. Just like DVDRAM is better than +/- for data storage but there are no movies on it because of such a non standard format. HD-DVD is the true evolutionary successor to DVD when it comes to movies and tv. BR should be geared as the replacement for PC drives such as tape and dvdram.

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Posted Apr 20, 2006 5:35 am PT

the difference between 1080i and 1080p is nothing more then file size. both can fit it, regardless of the format. Hell I could fit about 3 seconds worth of 1080p onto a cd! not that it matters because less the 25% of the HD-TV's out there support 1080p. And last I check Dick and Jane dont want to throw away their $3000+ tv just for 1080p. not to mention, most of the studios and HD cameras are 720p natively.

Blu-Ray will fail like everything else sony engineers. (minidisc anyone? how about UMD, or maybe the betamax?). Not to mention sony wants a royaltie fee for everything created on blu-ray. its just something tomake the rich people richer. HD-DVD will survive because production costs are so low.

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Posted Apr 20, 2006 4:03 am PT

Sooner there will be a manufacturer that will create a player for BOTH formats. Until then I will be just a regular DVD advocate.

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Posted Apr 20, 2006 2:28 am PT

Well All will answers will come to light in E3....

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 7:43 pm PT

""I don't have a HD TV at this point, so I don't really care about watcing HD movies, I just want to play games. I just hope Sony will soon stop dinking around with the video stuff a put out a decent game machine. Granted, one of the selling points for me with the PS2 was that it was also a DVD player. At the time that ment something. DVD's were just starting to take off and getting a PS2 was a cheap way to kill two birds with one stone. However, I do not think that we have the same situation now. Granted, at whatever price that PS3 will be, chances are it will be cheaper then most existing Blue-ray players at the time. However, in order to enjoy it people will need a true HD-TV, which I don't believe is that mainstream, yet.""

The PS2 is more than a decent game machine its just graphically outdated right now. And even if you dont own an HDTV, you dont need one to enjoy the insane graphical update that the PS3 will be bringing along with it. Its like saying you NEED an HDTV to enjoy Oblivion or GRAW on the 360. They sure as hell look and feel more intense, more beautiful on an HDTV, but that doesnt severely detract from the great gameplay unless your playing on a 10 inch screen.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 7:11 pm PT

I don't have a HD TV at this point, so I don't really care about watcing HD movies, I just want to play games. I just hope Sony will soon stop dinking around with the video stuff a put out a decent game machine. Granted, one of the selling points for me with the PS2 was that it was also a DVD player. At the time that ment something. DVD's were just starting to take off and getting a PS2 was a cheap way to kill two birds with one stone. However, I do not think that we have the same situation now. Granted, at whatever price that PS3 will be, chances are it will be cheaper then most existing Blue-ray players at the time. However, in order to enjoy it people will need a true HD-TV, which I don't believe is that mainstream, yet.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 5:17 pm PT

Someone earlier said, "so much for pure HD?". That's funny, HOW many people have a set that supports 1080p? Hmm, seems obvious that you would release a player that supports what the mainstream is able to use, and when technology is more affordable and in more homes, introduce a player that DOES in fact do 1080p. C'mon, how many of you bought a DVD player, just to replace it with a progress-scan unit when made available? And how many of those players got chunked when 720p-upconverting players were introduced (you know that they sold you when you saw Yoda fighting Count Dukoo in 720p bliss!) And honestly, what IS "true" HD? 480p? 720p? 1080 or 1560? Truth is, you are currently able to view programs in a way that is COMPLETELY new to the normal 480i of a standard DVD player or just over 200 lines interlaced when watching "Lost" on cable. IMO, anything that is better than watching TV the "old-fashioned way" IS HD. Like trim levels on cars, there are just different levels of "HD" available. Me thinks that in two years, it will then be both logical AND affordable to purchase "the next gen" movie format. BTW, I think I WILL bank on Blu-ray because they DO have a lot of players and support (a first for Sony if any of you have been keeping score.)

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 5:01 pm PT

"s it me or im i right in thinkin' if HD-DVD wins this war, the PS3 becomes a $??? paper weight?"

Actually even if HD-DVD wins, The PS3 is backwards compatible with the old formats, so developers can still publish games in the regular dvd format. Also, Since Sony is one of the main manufacturers of Blu-Ray Technology, they can back themselves up if worse comes to worse. But that would be a hella doomsday prediction for the Sony corp.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 4:31 pm PT

AAAAAAAAAAAAA! too much words and numbers! Why do we need to argue so much? Whatever happens happens. Don't worry about it .Go play a videogame, and stop arguing about a video format that probably wouldn't be in Gamespot or any game site if it weren't for the ps3

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 4:30 pm PT

see what im saying is no ones going to go out of there why to go buy
a blue-ray player or a hd-dvd player wan you can get a blue-ray with the ps3
or wan it comes out the hd-dvd for the xbox360 all im saying is that both can fail or both can win or blue-ray can win or hd-dvd in the end it will be us
who says who will win im not going to back any of them till there is a winner
save some time and money

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 4:16 pm PT

is it me or im i right in thinkin' if HD-DVD wins this war, the PS3 becomes a $??? paper weight?

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 4:05 pm PT

get ready to watch MS tank only one studio backing and the PS3 will inevitably be the cheapest Blu-Ray player, HD-DVD will stand still as Sony dominates it.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 4:03 pm PT

i hope they all lose.
there is no need for sharper video and more expensive crap to buy.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 4:02 pm PT

Anyway, TVs REALLY rendering 1080i are really rare and damn expensive, plus
720p looks better than 1080i coz of the progressive scan.
And those who are still saying it will not affect games, you understand nothing in economy and electronics.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 2:36 pm PT

skyvader and mindcas:

actually MS is secretly supporting both, its just that to keep the public image of it being Sony's console rival, they continue to retract statements from execs who just dont get memos that if the Blu-Ray wins theyll support BluRay instead, but not to say anything publicly about it. Also, I get what you mean by support, but these studios supporting Sony's Blu-Ray HAVE shown actual box images of the Blu-Ray movies they plan to release. Its not like their in limbo, they are actually scheduled to release their movies on the Blu-Ray format. And the differences right now between both formats are far and wide if you put it into a consumers perspective:

HD offers movies from three studios, a cheaper low end HD-DVD player, and a video bit rate of 28 mbps (not to mention that its a lower capacity disc). Blu-ray offers movies from seven studios, their cheapest player is twice that of HD-DVD's, and the discs offer a video bit rate of 40 mbps (and again, it holds almost twice the capacity of an HD disc). Of course, thats also leaving out that Blu-Ray discs also support multiple layers, and that 100GB to 200GB quad layered BR discs are already in the works (which means, for storage purposes, that you can do a terrabyte with only 5 discs...). Now, just taking it from the movie buyers point of view, the HD is cheaper and more convenient now, but it doesnt offer as many movie studios. The Blu-Ray offers a wider variety of movies but its priced ridiculously. So what would the general, dont need every player in existence, consumer do? theyll wait. Theyll wait till either HD gets more studios backing them, or till Blu-Ray's price drops. But what happens when they hear about a video gaming console, thats touted by Katuragi to be an Entertainment Platform and not just a video gaming system, that costs just as much as the cheaper HD player, has a built in fully functional Blu-Ray Drive just like the basic 1k Blu-Ray Player, and can purportedly do much more later? They jump on it till a cheaper, player only alternative with more studios backing is available.
As you may know though, once said person owns a PS3 and the Blu-Ray format is more popular, the idea that the overpriced already available Blu-Ray players will go down is a completely possibility, and then said person who own the PS3, just needs to ebay the PS3, and get back on track with a now reduced price high end BR player. Of course, its all theory, but considering I hear stories from Movie collectors of what they had to do when the DVD format was introduced that are far more farfetched, this theory isnt nearly as absurd.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 2:24 pm PT

Why are folks drawing lines of engagement in the sand? Hell, the stuff is still out of everyday life until all the prices drop and we as consumers can afford and implement the technology. It blows my mind when people say one is going to be better than the other. This is true, but we will not know that for a good 2 to 3 years. Wait till some kid is trying to sell a parent on a PS3 or 360. The parent will just say they both look the same. The BR and HD-DVD will fall into the same boat. Enjoy life folks, there is much more important things to worry about in life.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 2:21 pm PT

If Sony is wanting the partners to price their units higher, what incentive is there for a consumer to get a player other than the PS3? this is good news for Sony but it screws over their partners as consumers will look at the $1000 unit and then get the PS3 because it does more. Consumers win, Sony wins but the others are screwed. If it weren't for the support and trust form the other companies Sony would not have the power to push so hard. If Panasonic and JVC and Pioneer and the cheap companies played it smart they would release an HD player along side their blue ray player. I am not sure if that is the plan and if it is great for the consumer and these companies. But as far as BR goes it is just another Sony format trying to win over the public. UMD is the same way. I say let Sony release their PS3 and the others go and make HD players instead of BR players. Then the movie companies would have to follow the majority of the industry leaving sony with another failed format. But that is just purely speculation. I dont agree, and most likely neither do the other companies, with Sony wanting to push for acceptance. Let another company that has a better success rate be the one to front the format. Toshiba is a good choice. to bad they are on the other side.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 1:51 pm PT

The point that I was trying to make is

Most of the people that buy the ps3 won't have the tv to support the quality of a blu-ray disc, so more than likely they will keep buying dvd's. Sony included it to get the numbers of blu-ray players on the market up.

So when a consumer that is looking between purchasing a high def player, the one that is half the price will be more appealing. Assuming that they do not want a video game system or just the basic version of the player.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 1:33 pm PT

Imavnas, what will decide is the amount of exclusive content is delivered to each side. It has to be content that appeals to the majority of movie viewers. While it is obvious that Sony will push the blue ray with all its own property like the spiderman movies and such, other companies do not have such job security. Universal supports HD and Sony supports BD but the others are all in limbo, despite what many have stated. A company wants to make $$ on their product so they will go with what the majority are buying. Fox, disney, Warner all the the right to release movies on both formats. Why buy a BD player over a HD player? If you are a die hard Sony movie buff I guess. Other than that movies will eventually be made in both formats. Plus ALL of these movie companies will continue to support DVD so in the end, it wont matter which you get as you can still play the least common denominator. Same can be said about consoles. If there is a game you have to have and it is only available on one system, get that system. For sony to initially say to its partners raise your prices so it makes us look cheaper is absurd. Maybe they are hoping for the same success as the PS2 but it wont happen unless they can saturate the market with exclusive content. Another thing is MS and how they are open to the notion of either HD or BD. Even though they have been pushing for HD, it may not be so much due to the format as it is the features and security of the format. If the competing format had the same security (which it does now, I think) then MS can now say we support both. Think about it.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 1:30 pm PT

""Do you really thinks this will not happen with Sony PS3???

There are currently a many more gamres on PS2 than 360, just looking at #'s there WILL BE the same issues. people wil pay anyting and someone is always there is ca$h in on their cravings. Plus there is almost no way the price of PS3 will be near that ot 360 at launch.""

Of course itll happen to the PS3. Unlike Microsofts 360, itll sell even more thanks to its rabid fan following in Japan. Shortages will be even crazier. But the fact that PS3 wont sell well if its priced commercially past $500 is still there. Yes thats still more than 360's premium system. But it does introduce a whole new format to the fray, and, if the 360's launch was any indication, considering the PS3's releasing in November, its going to sell ridiculously fast, even at that price.

Edit: And I can definitely tell you that the PS3's prices on Ebay will be even more eye opening than the 360's.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 1:14 pm PT

"Really now? $500 bucks is a lot of dough? Tell that to all the idiots who purchased 360's for upwards of 2k on ebay when it released. There were nearly 40,000 360's on Ebay on and right before its launch day, and many a fool was buying it for upwards of 1k. "

Do you really thinks this will not happen with Sony PS3???

There are currently a many more gamres on PS2 than 360, just looking at #'s there WILL BE the same issues. people wil pay anyting and someone is always there is ca$h in on their cravings. Plus there is almost no way the price of PS3 will be near that ot 360 at launch.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 1:08 pm PT

"It won't be long before the other movie companies make movies on both formats. They will either adopt both much the same that manufacturers did with +and - R media or they will revert back to standard DVD because of costs."

I agree that its a possible scenario given how much more both HD and BR discs take to produce than DVD's. But at the same time, that factor is completely dependant on the success of either format. Considering that we saw the studios move from Beta almost completely to VHS, that is also a possible scenario. As ive theorized before, its completely possible that the 7 companies backing Blu-Ray know something we dont, and perhaps forsee that the PS3 might be the reason for the Blu-Rays future success. After all, the current companies that are releasing on both formats used to be on an HD exclusive agenda, and quickly decided that theyd throw the towel to Blu-Ray as well. Its completely possible that after E3 we may yet see the last remaining HD exclusive studio (Universal) jump ship. Technically, the PS3 is just as much a part of this format war as the first players releasing for each company. Alas, time will tell, but I still see a clear winning advantage for the Blu-Ray format.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 12:54 pm PT

""Lets say you are Panasonic who only makes players not games now you want me to believe they would spend money on a product only to make it so expensive that it won't sell widely for atleast 3yrs? Makes no business sense AT ALL! The only way I see them making money if what you say is true (NOT!!) is if they make the drivers for the systems.""

*sigh* so its now completely apparent that you really didnt witness the DVD launch. People are still going to buy Blu-Ray Players, wether their more expensive than HD-DVD or not (same applies to HD-DVD players). But the fact that HD-DVD players are arguably more accessible in price to the general public right now is a fact. Its not like they send droves of either players for either formats to stores, as just recently HD-DVD launched and only 3 players were sent to every Major store. Only 3. Considering the price of the Blu-Ray players it wouldnt suprise me if they sent only 2 to every major store scheduled to receive the players. Their not exactly losing money, and the fact that so few players are being sent out points to the fact that both Sony and Toshiba understand itll take several years for the new formats to gain visibility, wether their expensive or not. All of this makes perfect business sense, as, with both VHS and DVD launches, it took years for the general public to purchase said players in masses.
Why am I saying all this? Because Sony and its fellow corporations that are marketing Blu-Ray might be taking their approach to this new format a bit differently this time. Instead of doing what every company did with VHS and DVD (and what Toshiba is doing with HD-DVD), they could very well be pricing their players way above the original intended sticker price, to promote the Playstation 3 release in November. Why you ask? Simple, because if the PS3 does indeed sell in droves and accelerates the process of shifting consumers from DVD to Blu-Ray then said existing Blu-Ray players can be sent to stores in larger quanities with their originally intended sticker price (after or during the PS3 launch), thus flooding stores with Blu-Ray, quite literally one of the best ways to market your format in face of a giant rival. Not only will consumers purchasing a PS3 be aware of Blu-Ray, but the supposed lower prices of the existing Blu-Ray Players will spark the attention of the other non gaming consumers. Its a risky marketing strategy, but if the PS3 succeeds, its easy to see this approach being the most successful.

""Look pimp I know you love Sony and they do have a chance to win the console war price isn't everything. But its alot in terns of the pricing for the system only to see that most people in America don't have an HD-TV yet and if you look at the projected time frame those tv's will be widespread in about 4-6yrs console lifespans are only 5-6 thats too much money to spend not to be able to utilize it.""

The said lifespans of consoles will supposedly increase with this new generation, and the lifespan of whatever the next format may be will be rather long as well. If Blu-Ray wins itll also be future proof, as unlike HD-DVD's and regular DVD's, Blu-Rays can be multi-layered instead of just single and dual layered, to the point where TDK is now currently developing a quad layered Blu-Ray disc than has a storage capacity of 200 GB.

Source: http://www.blu-ray.com/

And by the way, I dont love Sony, I just dont see how HD-DVD could possibly win this format war. I also dont see how the general poster on Gamespot can spout so much trash about subjects they truly dont know about. It seems like everyone whos posted on here missed the 96' DVD launch, and have absolutely no ideas as to how long formats take to be widely accepted. Wether you accept one or the other now or not, 4 years from now everyone will be talking about buying the new X-dvd, X standing for whatever format won this particular war, BR or HD. Its that simple.

""My point is they wouldn't go buy an HD-DVD they would save their money get a revolution or an Xbox and go buy $10-25 DVD's VS. $60 games and $50-60 movies.""

Yea except that their already buying 360 games for $60 so you cant really say the average consumer isnt willing to pay a bit more for higher quality graphics as theyve already proven to the myriad of Company execs that they would. And besides, you dont seem to know what the prices will be. Theres no way in hell BR or HD movies will be any more than 40 bucks at launch. I think the most expensive single disc movies for HD (which is out right now) are 34.99, and slight increase in price for BR's will only put it a about $5 higher per single disc release. Lets say the average consumer doesnt start buying up either format till late next year, were looking at a possible $10 - $15 drop for both formats in single disc pricing. (not to mention the supplementary drop of the players by at least a couple hundred bucks).

""but if Toshiba can just let HD-DVD out in the open for other companies to expand on it will achieve the great leaps and bounds that it would need against the Sony owned Studios that will go blu-ray.""

I just dont see HOW this could happen. They dont have a major catalyst for the reduction of the current trend analysis of a new format launch. Unless they FLOOD stores with HD-DVD players priced relatively cheaper than the PS3 at launch, theirs no way they can gain the upper hand. And by the way, As ive stated prior, theirs also no way Sony can launch their PS3 at anything past $500. At most I can see a $550 price tag, but even thats pushing it. For them to stay competitive, it needs to be at that price, if not the 360's and Revolutions will just wipe the floor with PS3 sales. As much hype as it has, if a family or individual goes to a store to purchase the PS3 and finds out they cant purchase it due to its price tag, their just gonna go with the cheaper alternative. And because we know Sony isnt stupid, as they have two semi sucessful system launches behind them, Im definitely confident it wont be past the aforementioned prices.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 12:54 pm PT

Blu-ray's gonna win I mean with the ps3 having a built in blu-ray player its no competition.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 12:35 pm PT

It won't be long before the other movie companies make movies on both formats. They will either adopt both much the same that manufacturers did with +and - R media or they will revert back to standard DVD because of costs. Either way it is best to wait and not just for the PS3. Maybe it isn't so great to be first as it shows the imperfections in the design. It allows the other side to make adjustments they may not have thought of. I am sure that during the design phase for the PS2 it had a typical CD drive. Then as time goes on Sega reveals their high capacity GD Rom drive and sony says we can do one better. They opt for a DVd and it is a hit not for game but for movies. It didnt sell the way Sony intended at first but the end result was even better as it was widely accepted outside the gaming community.

MS could have done the same and included a HD drive instead of DVD. They most likely thought about it after sony revealed their bd rom drive plans for the PS3. To late into production so MS has to counter with an add-on. Look at the failure for the UMD format. Not very universal if only one device can use it. Unless they meant for the universal part to be for movies, music, and more. A set top UMD player would help the format to be adopted outside the gameing community. If you think about it, Sony was competing against itself with a new format. UMD can do much what dvd can and so can blue ray. Dont give me all this crap about quality differences on a big screen. That is just taking it at face value. On a psp a umd movie looks pretty damn sweet. A player for the tv could do the same with filtering and upscanning and lots of other stuff that makes compressed video look good on a bigger screen.

Perhaps there will be hybrid players for both HD and BR formats just like there are for the various DVD formats. It may be 2nd or even 3rd gen units that will play both formats. Much like the last little bit of that article, the jump is not as breathtaking as it was from vhs to dvd. I still have laserdisc and that looks better than vhs and as good as first gen dvd. It is always at the outgoing stage of a specific technology that it looks its best. The incoming looks marginally better but doesn't take full form until 3rd gen in.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 12:25 pm PT

Sony has been trying to commit the world to a format of its own since betas. Mini discs, UMDs, Super Audio CDs all of these are Sony's formats, a lot of their quest is to stop piracy. One thing I have noticed is that the formats people tend to choose are cheap yes but they are easily used by several companies not just one single company. Now it makes me think of Microsoft and how they are the biggest name in PC software, but they are not the only game in town. Thsi is where Sony has tryed to constantly keep with their formats. Now please understand that I have no loyalty to either camp I will wait to get which ever format is going to actually be used. I dont think that both of them will proceed, I agree that Sony will make head way with the PS3 including the BD format. But this wont be the first time companies have made items that are not fully used and will it really make you get rid of your PS3 if Blu-Ray goes like a laserdisc player. Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are new formats that are trying to do the same thing make money and avoid piracy on wide spread levels. Im leaning to Blu-Ray because of sheer capacity, and spoken RW capabilities, but if Toshiba can just let HD-DVD out in the open for other companies to expand on it will achieve the great leaps and bounds that it would need against the Sony owned Studios that will go blu-ray.

As far as the PS3 price point I have heard from $600 to $800 and that SOny is going to consider its own financing abilities. The PS3 is going to cost a S@#TLOAD and that would be expected especially if Sony is going to start its own financing for their systems. I asked around the game places where I live and that was there answer and they arent going to preorder until a month or two before November. I thought because of all the 360 problems but they said that it was due to Sony not putting SKU's out and this financing issue.

Now the HDTV era was forced to begin with due to congress and FCC regualtions making the push to open up the airwave frequencies for more goverment communications. I think that the HDTV era is here and will come on faster than the 3 to 5 year projection some people say, I would guess 3 years max and then we will see jumps in what everyone was really forced to get into. I personally will wait until price goes down and I have no options because until the FCC makes this 1996 -2006 mandatory change over go into real effect we are really pissing in the wind.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 12:20 pm PT

Sure it wont be widely used as a BR movie player at first, but why would someone who bought a PS3 for games go out and waste darn good cash on an HD-DVD player when they can already purchase BluRay movies? Catch my drift? Especially considering that their would be far more BluRay movies available (seeing as how BluRay has 7 studios backing it as opposed to HD-DVD's 3) than their would be HD -DVD movies.

My point is they wouldn't go buy an HD-DVD they would save their money get a revolution or an Xbox and go buy $10-25 DVD's VS. $60 games and $50-60 movies.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 12:05 pm PT

If it hasnt occured to you yet, isnt it almost OBVIOUS that Sony and the other creators of Blu-Ray are telling their fellow Blu-Ray makers to make their Players ridiculously expensive so that they push more PS3's off shelves come November?

Lets say you are Panasonic who only makes players not games now you want me to believe they would spend money on a product only to make it so expensive that it won't sell widely for atleast 3yrs? Makes no business sense AT ALL! The only way I see them making money if what you say is true (NOT!!) is if they make the drivers for the systems.

Look pimp I know you love Sony and they do have a chance to win the console war price isn't everything. But its alot in terns of the pricing for the system only to see that most people in America don't have an HD-TV yet and if you look at the projected time frame those tv's will be widespread in about 4-6yrs console lifespans are only 5-6 thats too much money to spend not to be able to utilize it.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 12:01 pm PT

lookit the homebrew "experts" go at it....the actual fact is next gen format war will be decided by one factor alone:

PIRACY.

whichever siade the pirates choose to go with shall come out as a winner. pricing, accessibility and ease of use being the influencing factors.

(i bet some moderator just peed their pants right now).

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 11:45 am PT

"You missed his point. It wasn't that they would go and get HD-DVD it was that most people have standard televisions why would they pay the extra for a PS3 just to get a game on 1disc instead of 2? When they could stick with dvds. He's right though its enough that the games go up but dag the movies to?"

Like I said to someone before, you apparently missed the DVD launch back in 96'. DVD's were outragously priced as well as the players. Not till 3 years later when the prices for BOTH came down significantly did the average consumer start buying dvd players. The only difference with these two formats is that Sony has a possible couple years head start with the PS3. Millions of people are going to buy it anyway. Sure it wont be widely used as a BR movie player at first, but why would someone who bought a PS3 for games go out and waste darn good cash on an HD-DVD player when they can already purchase BluRay movies? Catch my drift? Especially considering that their would be far more BluRay movies available (seeing as how BluRay has 7 studios backing it as opposed to HD-DVD's 3) than their would be HD -DVD movies. By the time both BR and HD movies go down in price, Tens of millions will own PS3's and just need to purchase the BR movies. But tens of millions WONT own HD-DVD players. As ive stated repeatedly before, this is what Im assuming those 7 studios backing the BluRay realize.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 11:36 am PT

I think PS3 is gonna win but like someone say . if they dont mess up the PS3. lol XD . plus i thinks BD is gonna be better then HD

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 11:36 am PT

I'm not paying $600+ for a PS3. If I had that much, I'd upgrade my pc, and still have some money left over.

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 11:31 am PT

The blu-ray player may ship with the ps3, but the majority of those ps3 will be attached to cheap tube tvs in peoples bedrooms. So why would those people spend extra money on blu-ray discs when they can buy the same movie on dvd for cheaper.

You understand that what you just said makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever? If you own a PS3 and decide not to buy Blu-Ray movies because you dont have a TV that can support them, why in the world would you go OUT of your way to buy an HD-DVD player to do the SAME THING when you already have a fully functional Blu-Ray Player at HOME??!!! ugh, the sheer stu....*sigh* no point in arguing any further with this one

You missed his point. It wasn't that they would go and get HD-DVD it was that most people have standard televisions why would they pay the extra for a PS3 just to get a game on 1disc instead of 2? When they could stick with dvds. He's right though its enough that the games go up but dag the movies to?

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 11:28 am PT

man 1000 f0r a player! l0l rite! s0nys d00m'd!!!

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 11:25 am PT

"--PS3 as a blu ray player would be like taking a knife and scratching your ps2 lense to get dirty disc errors. (a feather or just plan air would work just as well). Since the ps2 has such wonderful insides, made with the highest quality and price cutting techniqies from sony, the ps3 lense which will have more formats to lead, hence more load on the lense, would be even more delicate. I am thinking of investing in a vaccum container for my ps3 to protect its lense from all the horendous dust thats in the earths atmosphere."

Ah yes, the every so often fool complaining about disc read errors when other systems fail to give you the versatility of generally problem /glitch free backwards compatability. Go troll somewhere else will ya? Ive owned 3 PS2's and I never had any disc read error problems with them. Finally sold my last one a few weeks ago in prep for the November PS3 and Revo launch. Its amusing to see about 1k+ people complain about disc read errors when over 100+ million PS2's have been sold. And the best part is that half the disc read errors come from idiots that dont know that they shouldnt drop heavy objects on ther PS2's or that their PS2 shouldnt be inside a storage conatiner thats at a consistent 100 degree Farenheit temp, etc etc. Very sad indeed.

"If apple is going with the blu ray then i am putting on my road runner jet shoes and running in the exact OPPOSITE direction. (yes especially after the "we arent just any other pc" switchover to intel)."

At least they do a better job than Microsoft with their OS releases. I have the latest XP and i still get random unexplained "driver failures". Ive even called up Support about it, they have no clue, given my system specifications, what could be causing the problem. How about "Buggy, %$^$^% up" OS?

"Microsoft IS the pc platform, what they go with will HAVE to be adapted by almost EVERYONE. nuff' said?"

"im with microsoft and if there HD THen IM HD .get off sony nuttz damn"

Except even Microsoft has been topsy turvy on the subject. They first said they would support whatever the winner of the format war is. Of course, then they retract the statement because it goes against their agreement with Toshiba, lmao. Then some other Microsoft exec, who apparently didnt get the memo, says the same thing again, except with a bit more subtlety. It sounds to me like thier going to support whoever wins the stupid format war, and that supporting HD-DVD is just a front so that they appear to be even more against their rival Sony. Lest we forgot their true objective, more MONEY.

"High definition tv is at least 5 years from now. high definition video might even be farther if not the same."

Sure bud. Take care to visit your local Circuit City or Best Buy in Mid 07' and ask how many 1080p supported TV sets they have. Youll get a kicking suprise (And I assure you it wont be a small #). In fact, go to an electronics superstore now and ask. Youll definately be getting far more than just 2 Tv's, like some other nerd who hasnt left his house said a few pages back.

"We gotta look at some basic facts. PRICE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Lets be real neither of these are gonna do much to start,but console wise thats just alot of dough!
people may buy the ps3 but blu-ray players thats just insane! I think sony should have played it safe and just did the players with an removable drive incase it does take off and they can switch."

Really now? $500 bucks is a lot of dough? Tell that to all the idiots who purchased 360's for upwards of 2k on ebay when it released. There were nearly 40,000 360's on Ebay on and right before its launch day, and many a fool was buying it for upwards of 1k. Yet it has no new format. It didnt even have any decent games at launch, save for PGR3. Hell they had TWO sku's! The core or "rip-off" and the premium or "this is the only sku we shouldve actually had as the HD is necessary for more than 3/4th of everything ull be using this system for". If it hasnt occured to you yet, isnt it almost OBVIOUS that Sony and the other creators of Blu-Ray are telling their fellow Blu-Ray makers to make their Players ridiculously expensive so that they push more PS3's off shelves come November? No of course not, doesnt sound sane to make clever buisness strategies.

"I can't wait for the PS3 4096P to show it's true colors. The poor HD-DVDs 1080P doesn't even stand a chance.

Now how STUPID does that sound?"

You tell us, your the one who said it, -_-

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Posted Apr 19, 2006 11:21 am PT

[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]

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