360 HD DVD add-on now $130

using BD as a games format was a great move by sony. It means games don't have to be compressed making loading and fps better and look at resistance. It was 22GB! And by the way GrimBee the 360 version of GTA is on two discs instead of one!

In case you didn't know, Blue-ray can also utilize the features that have been put into HD-DVD videos. Picture in picture is more than able to be implemented on Blu-ray. Blu-ray actually has some technical advantages (suc as Java support) that you may want to look into. All it takes is for the industry to standardize and stick with Blu-ray, then they will start innovating on the features and additional content. I don't believe that comparing current feature sets is a fair way to judge. For a non-informed consumer, the feature set is pretty impressive. However, for someone who can look beyond what is being advertised and what is currently available, you will see that there are some slight advantages in the BD format and once the fate of the format is sealed, studios will begin working on releasing better features. =============================== NEXT =============================== 50 GB of storage on a dual-layer BD. 9 GB on dual-layer DVD. BD = 5 times the amount of storage. What good is storage if the game is still short? Good question: The storage space allows for: * games to use more cinematic cut-scenes * a huge variety of textures * a huge variety of character models * a huge catalog of character dialog * a huge catalog of licensed or unlicensed music * on some games, all audio can remain uncompressed and therefore the sound will be reproduced at a higher bit-rate and will come out more clear and crisp - as well as eliminating the need for a processor (or processor core) to decompress the audio, and hence saving processor power for more important things like AI and physics calculations. Just because developers haven't fully utilized the space available, it doesn't mean that they are not excited to. Blu-ray has been introduced with the ability to grow as it needs to. As PS3 games become less expensive to build and developers get better at creating the resources need for the games, they will find more time to fill in the extra space that they have not yet tapped into. The basic claim here is that if you wait, the games will get bigger and better. It's funny how people analyze the storage compared to what is currently out there. How many people thought that 700MB was too much for a game when Playstation arrived using the CD format? How many people thought that 4GB was too much space when Playstation 2 arrived? Now we have games that nearly completely fill a DVD-9 disc (see God of War 2 on PS2). BD allows for a larger growth rate in it's life than DVD is able to provide. HD-DVD could have kept up pretty well had it made it on the movie side, especially since it is only 10GB behind in storage space. In the end HD-DVD has come to an end as a movie format. It could still be used for personal PC data storage and Xbox games, but I don't believe Toshiba is going to keep pushing the format once they finally give in. Also, the general public will want Blu-ray drives in their PC's so they can watch their movies using them. 'nuf said?

@ GrimBee Good point.

"No matter what people say , Blu-Ray is better than HD-DVD." And Xbox live is better than the PSN. And the 360 pad is better than the ps3 pad... BUT - notice how all these are personal preferences! HDDVD and BLURAY differences on screen are like comparing call of duty 4 on ps3 to the 360 - very minor details. And the differences would only be the content that fits AROUND it. Eventually, blu-ray will fill a little niche of its own, but it won't be a necessity like dvd is. DVD is too useful and mass-produced to go down lightly. The real fight is between hddvd and bluray for MOVIES. I have yet to even see one ps3 game use the advantages of blu-ray, uncharted looked great - but it was short. Pretty much all the ps3 games are short. And when it comes to length - final fantasy will probably fit a full blu-ray disc. However-- Final Fantasy will be a linear game - i.e it won't matter even if you had to swap discs because the story and levels are progressive. Not all open-ended and seamless. A FF game is also littered with cut-scenes - and when they are in high-def - there isn't much room left for the game itself. One of the most amazing games out (graphically) is Crysis on the PC. That takes up under 6GB in space. And everything else stores on the hard-drive (expansions and such). Games are much different than streaming video and audio, heck, warcraft is a massive open-ended game, but that fits on a dvd. and everything else is an expansion. And seeming as the ps3 and 360 have hard-drives... GTA is open-ended, and its fitting on a 360 disc. Everything else will be downloaded expansion packs. Even gran turismo is being released in segments and letting you download cars onto your hard-drive. Blu-Ray was supposed to have ALL those cars and tracks on one disc!! But if you end up having to download alot of them seperately.. its a bit pointless really. And seeming as most developers will be developing cross-platform (wii pc and 360 included) - they will be used to professionally compressing and streaming data because the three (out of four) consoles (including pc) use DVD. The real innovation, will come from sony first-party games and big movie studios. For everything else there is HDDVD and blu-ray. HDDVD will be good for smaller studios to release HD content, and probably for the use of storage as it is much cheaper for the standard consumer to get a hold of. And judging by toshiba's standards - mass production usually severely drops costs and will probably give them the edge. This is a long-winded post (sorry). This topic needs to cover many areas you see. Movie studios are moving over to blu-ray. But there is no real difference between the two formats. Fair enough - Blu-Ray has more storage space... but why was pirates of the carribbean released as a two disc set? The industry isn't ready to fit everything on one disc yet because everyone else doesn't do it.

have both 360 and PS3. First-up - everyone knows its the same video codec Second, does extra space on BR matter? a) No because they never fill it anyway, and b) the market has been conditioned to buy special edition 2-disc version rather than 1-disc |(the seperate disc allows higher bitrate space for a higher quality film on disc1) dont believe me? try these: i) why are there 2 disc blurays out there for normal films (hairspray i think)? ii) why is eg Planet Earth 5 discs on both format? c) if you like extra features, take a look at the films on each format for the films that I like (ie not all) there just isnt the same features. Harry Potter OoTP has picture in picture commentry in HDD, BR doesnt. The features are nearly always more important than the film for me, so i prefer HDD d) downloadable content - just doesnt happen on BR e) HDD discs are cheaper to buy f) selection of films isnt great, but they just seem to be the films i like so its HDD for me, and if it dies it dies, i'm not really fussed as i still have rthe PS3, and hopefully they'll smarten up the featues and price

In my opinion and just in my opinion, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray are equal in quality of the picture. That's really all I'm concerned with. The downfall for the HD-DVD is that it was never included in the Xbox 360 from the very beginning, like Blu-Ray is in the PS3. Either way, I don't care who wins. I'll keep buying regular DVD's until that format is truly dead and on the way out.

Is it just me or do people really like to go to extremes to put something they don't personally like down. No matter what people say , Blu-Ray is better than HD-DVD. I'm sure people are going to attack that comment but just wait, Blu-Ray is better because it is better. Again, wait a second so I can explain. Blu-Ray is winning according to sales, and according to industry support, so even if Blu-Ray looked like **** it would still be better. You could say the Patriots are better than the Giants, but you'd be wrong, because the Patriots lost, make sense? Eh, who cares if it does or it doesn't, HD-DVD is losing, and therefore, it isn't as good. This type of objectiveness should be kept to hardware issues, please don't try throwing that type of arguement at someone over software related things, they are too subjective.

HD DVD is a losing technology. It's pretty obvious why the 360 has not come out with the HD DVD drive built in. Microsoft doesn't believe it will win out but they will NOT put a Blu-Ray drive in the 360 or make it a periph until they absolutely have to. Why? Because it's a Sony product. But with Blu-Ray outselling HD DVD by a landslide, I think it's time for Microsoft to cave in. Besides. Come on! 50 GB worth of data storage space on the dual layer CD's? You know devs would love that. I'm sure they do with the PS3 games. (For reference. I like the 360 way more than I do my PS3. Yes I have both) Now I have the HD DVD add on and I love it but I find myself renting Blu-Ray discs from Netflix ALOT more often than I do HD DVD. 2 reasons why. One, I have liked Blu-Ray better frmo the start because of the higher storage capacity. And 2, there are more movies out there in Blu-Ray than there are in HD DVD. Come on Microsoft. I know you and Sony are business rivals but it's time to give up the fight. HD DVD is dead.

"Autolycus - THis has nothing to do with the 360 or the Wii or a PC. Its all about PS3." even though a few post before that you said, "OH well, at least they dont advertise ( majority of the time, from what i've seen ) the 360 as a DVD player." ....riiiiiight.

$129 is still 2 much i don't think this move will change anything than the fact that hd dvd is on the verge of dying, long live BLU-RAY

Lets see, how many DVD's would it take.... Well the games can be zip down really small. They can get over 10gig's of info win they size the info down. So lets say if MGS4 is 3 disk. it would take 5 DVD's. The last disk wont be as full on BL. Plus most of the info one MGS4 will be CGI. If any one has played blue dragon they would know that the reson why its on 3 dvds. Most of the game is CGI. If they would have cut out like 3 hours of CGI video it could have been on 2 dvd's. For real. I like good story in games but my god. blue dragon over did it. Plus the story was crap. This is how the game went. Story, fight, story, story, some more story..... OMG!!!! EVEN MORE STORY!!!! fight, fight...Story, fight. Disk 2. story, fight, fight, GETTING OLD. Story, fight, story.. Ok this sucks, I'm not goint to play any more..... CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!! STORY!!!!!!

If MGS4 comes out on X360, how many DVD does it need?

By the way. if any one wants to see my 360 smoke go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4d57V3lkdxE Thats my 360. I also want to point out that when it was smoking it was on a desk. I took it off the desk cuz if it went up in flames alot of my stuff would have been gone. Plus it would have been faster if the thing started on fire. I could just pull the cords out and kick it out the door. It still works.

@wingnut999 u cant even type MGS4 right, so i know u dont know what u talking about

good point darkride666

Let me also add to what has been said already. Sony is advertising the most appealing features of the system at this time. Each of their commercials has a focus. Some of the go though the network, game, and video playback aspects of the system. Sony wants to push Blu-ray. What better way to get the word out there than to include it in every PS3 commercial? That way they double their promotional efforts for the format without spending any additional money because that money will be spent on PS3 advertising anyway. Also, Sony knows that it needs to beef up it's game catalog. It has gone a long way since launch and has just recently been getting the software it needs to sell systems to general public. I believe that you will see more games featured throughout 2008 as the big guns roll out. I think you have subconsciously blocked out the commercials that feature the games or the network. Sure, Blu-ray is also advertised, but mostly as just part of the end as a features list. I really don't see what the problem is with making people aware of the movie playback capabilities. They are trying to make Blu-ray the standard and their strategies seem to be working well.

@Autolycus Who cares if higher resolutions are available? Are television stations going to be able to afford the equipment to broadcast a resolution higher than 1080p in the next few years? No they aren't. Therefore, you can assume (as I do) that the standard for television is going to be 1080p for quite some time. Did you also know that Betamax camera could record high-def video? Well, it can. Just because the technology is there doesn't mean it will be standard. In fact, if you read up, you will find that broadcast television will be going out in 1080i and no more. If I am wrong, please post some valid/reliable resources. At any point, you can't expect them to push the standard any further. Like it or not Blu-ray is going to be the next standard for a while. Will it last 50 years like SDTV? I doubt it, but you can be sure it will be here for a while. Blu-ray CAN handle higher resolutions. A 3 hour movie won't even fill up a dual-layer BD disc at 1080p. Therefore, BD is capable of adapting higher-resolutions in the future. HD-DVD has lost. It's over. If you feel that you want to invest in this technology, then go ahead. Enjoy it while it lasts. The rest of us will remain in this strange place where logic and common sense are the norm.

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LOL! That link to the vid was AWESOME :lol: :lol:

"Autolycus yay when i came back on and after i hit submit i figured you would point that out, whoops! lol. OH well, at least they dont advertise ( majority of the time, from what i've seen ) the 360 as a DVD player. Actually I dont think either format was ever "Alive"" They dont advertise the 360 as a DVD player because that technology is what? 9 years old? They put DVD players in everything, and are dirt cheap. Who is going to say, "I want a 360 for it's DVD capability". And before someone calls me out, YES, I do know that some people buy the PS3 as a cheaper Blu Ray player, but it's no where near being a Blu player first, video game console second. Surely you dont really beleive that, and are just saying that to take a cheap fanboyish shot. Either way is bad, but the former is even worse.

My car was not made to sit in. It was made to drive. My craper was not made to sit on, it was made for me to crap in.

The point I was trying to make is that the technology is already there to surpase blu-ray and hd-dvd. The problem is, consumers are pawns what industry heads want. If tv's go the routes of computers, I would rather own and Apple TV and call it a day ( the revised/updated one ).

@carljohnson3456. thats like my VCR is more of a clock. I dont play movies in it any more. But it's always 12:00. There are more movies than games. i dont like the PS3, but it's still more of a games box than a Blu-Ray player. I can say that My PS3 playes more movies than games. My 360 playes more games. No dont bash me. I'm not a fan boy. I just like the 360 more. Thats all.

yay when i came back on and after i hit submit i figured you would point that out, whoops! lol. OH well, at least they dont advertise ( majority of the time, from what i've seen ) the 360 as a DVD player. Actually I dont think either format was ever "Alive"

"darkride66 Autolycus mentioned "If it were a video game system, there would probably be more video games then blu-ray titles available for it. " That's possibly one of the dumbest statements I've heard in a long time. By your logic the 360 is a DVD player first because there's more DVD's than games available. You're making the same flawed argument that carljohnson3456 was mocking that other poster for. And so what if they show movies in the commercials? Blu-Ray is an edge the PS3 has over the competition. Why wouldn't they advertise that fact? If the PS3 is a blu-ray player first, then it's pretty impressive that that Blu-Ray player that just happens to play kick ass games sold more units than the 360, a dedicated games machine, in 2007. And, just to keep things relevant, HD-DVD is dead." darkride66, I signed in soley to say this - awesome, awesome post.

Autolycus mentioned "If it were a video game system, there would probably be more video games then blu-ray titles available for it. " That's possibly one of the dumbest statements I've heard in a long time. By your logic the 360 is a DVD player first because there's more DVD's than games available. You're making the same flawed argument that carljohnson3456 was mocking that other poster for. And so what if they show movies in the commercials? Blu-Ray is an edge the PS3 has over the competition. Why wouldn't they advertise that fact? If the PS3 is a blu-ray player first, then it's pretty impressive that that Blu-Ray player that just happens to play kick ass games sold more units than the 360, a dedicated games machine, in 2007. And, just to keep things relevant, HD-DVD is dead.

Autolycus. Yes, Quad TV's sound great, except there's nothing planned over the next 5 years to use this and they aren't even targeted at the consumer markets. "According to Westinghouse, the TV does not really target the consumer market, but high-end industrial applications." 1440p TV's may be coming sometime over the next 5 years, but as they project by the end of 2008 less than 38% of Americans will any type of hi-def TV, what are the chances of 1440p tv's will be sold to anyone but people with more money than brains? As is the difference between 720p and 1080p are hard to spot unless your tv is over 50". The idea that Blu-Ray will become obsolete by 1440p tv's over the next couple of years is a fantasy. That's the truth...

carljohnson3456 - I have to disagree with you on that one. I would say 8 out of 10 commercials I see for the Sony Playstation 3 ( as in the "video game system" ) have been nothing but advertisements for movies like Spider-Man 3 ( the movie, owned by sony studios ) Pirates of the Caribbean ( onwed by sony studios ), James Bond 007 ( owned by Sony Studios ) etc. Sure they show a few things that don't even show you up close, IN GAME graphics of the PS3 ( kind of like the old X-Men Advertisement, only showing the CGI scenes, just like Sony got busted for on Kill Zone 2, twice ). Its a Blu-Ray player then a video game system. If it were a video game system, there would probably be more video games then blu-ray titles available for it.

in 2009, 1080p is supposed to be outdated by 1440p followed by 1720p a few years after that, followed by 2100p after that. guess what, none of those fit on blu-ray or HD-DVD... the only difference between blu-ray and hd-dvd is that blu-ray has more storage space, but in all actuality, that isnt very accurate any more. so the only real difference is price of production. Thats the truth...

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wwonka666, The tag will come down on BL. back when T2 came out on VHS it was $50. Alot of big moves that came out on VHS were $30-$50 bucks.

Hvac0120. What a well worded post. I thought I wrote it myself, except I've had 2 RROD's and only one was returned for scratching disks. You're absolutely right, just because a post isn't absolutely praising the 360 doesn't mean it's attacking the 360. I've been accused of being a Sony fanboy on these forums more times than I remember simply because I don't believe the 360 descended from heaven to lead us all to the promised land. I like my 360, but it did come in 3rd in 2007, the sales are slowing, and the PS3 is gaining steam. The hi-def format war is over, and downloadable movies are not going to replace DVD/Blu-Ray until they last longer than one week on our harddrives and bandwidth improves overall. Pointing this out isn't meant as an attack on the 360, it's meant to steer the conversation back to reality and hopefully stimulate intelligent conversation.

@getoconnection The problem here is that nobody you are attacking is bashing your precious 360. All they are doing is providing facts to correct your misunderstanding and uninformed posts. A lot of people backing the PS3 and|or Blu-ray didn't come in here just to bash the 360. They came in to add their view of the topic. This isn't a "360 thread" - it's actually a news post about the HD-DVD add-on for the 360. And in reality it's really just an RFP from Microsoft posted as a news story to get the word. In other words, this post is a pretty much an advertisement. I am an owner of an Xbox360. I made my original payment for the purchase in full May 2005 and picked up the console Dec 31, 2005. I am now on my 4th console. Out of the 3 repairs only 1 was for RROD. The other two issues were inoperable disc drive (scratched discs), and constant screen freezing. None of my Xbox360 consoles have lasted me more than 11 months. I take very good care of my console. I do not own a PS3. I do own a Wii. I do plan to purchase a PS3 later this year if I can. I am gamer and I do not judge by the company providing the hardware. I judge by the services and quality of the products provided. In this case, the HD-DVD format is not going to be able to provide the quality service I expect, therefore it is not worth purchasing this device, even at such a low price. When it comes to games, most of the Xbox360's success has been based on 3rd party exclusives. MS did a good job of securing those early on in the cycle. Coming out first helped them a lot. If you look forward to what has been announced, the 360 is losing steam. Sales are continually going down. A consoles second year on the market should boast growth in sales while the 360 was behind in 2007 from 2006. If this continues, developers and publishers are going to have to be heavily persuaded to stay exclusive for high profile games. Sony is gaining steam and this year may boost PS3 console sales enough to convince developers and publishers to at least go multiplatform. You need to come out of that fog that MS has put in your face and start examining the facts. So what if MGS goes multiplatform and ends up on 360? Who cares what platform you prefer? Really nobody here does. Your opinions are jaded and you can't see past your own false claims. Quit knocking on people and examine the facts. Then come with a valid, non-attacking reply.

I love how a conversation about the current firesale and uselessness of the 360's HD add-on ultimately turned into 360 fanboys claiming that MGS4 is coming to the 360. Sorry, but if someone says something negative about some feature on the PS3, I don't start making up rumors about "BioShock" coming to the system.

I enjoy my Xbox 360, Wii, and PS3. Why buy hd-dvd drive, no matter how cheap it is, when the blu-ray is just as good. Actually every week the newly released movies are being released on blu-ray. That's all I need to know. Gamers need to realize that blu-ray and hd-dvd doesn't settle which system is better. Proof of that is how well the Wii has sold and it doesn't even play dvds. Besides Microsoft is too busy with their downloadable movies to even care about hd-dvd. high definition movie war is over Blu-ray won. get over it already. your crying won't change anything.

"getoconnection carljohnson3456 What is so funny is that you're the one pointing fingers at "fanboys" like you're so high and mighty about this stuff. You're as bad as anybody. You let other people do your talking. You let Gamespot do your talking. You let "Jim Offner" (whoever that is) do your talking for you. (By the way, I didnt even take the time to read that article. His opinion is as good as yours, is as good as mine) I guess I'll go google an article insulting HDDVD and copy and paste it for you to read also. So, make immature comments, copy and paste other people's opinions, drink the kool-aid. I'll do my own talking. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The point is everyone else in the world, except for the denizens who reside in SONYVILLE, have the same opinion. I wasn't trying to trash the PS3 with that particular point. It is a movie player 1st. As such it will never win the console wars." It's because of fanboys like you that there are "console wars". It's not a movie player first, that's ridiculous. That would be like calling the PS2 a movie player first, or the original Xbox a movie player first. Not everyone, even outside of "Sonyville" (oh so clever and original) agree with you and your (or should I say, Jeff Offner's, Gamespot's, and any other editor's) opinion. No doubt that the PS3 was a trojan horse for Blu Ray, bit it's not a Blu Ray player first. That would be like me calling the X360 a "brick" first because 30% of 360's have RROD'd. Grow up man, I dont even want to call you a fanboy. You're past that. I dont even know what to call you. But all I see is a bunch of posts from you prancing around calling out "Sony Funboys" and then I have to wonder why you're taking this whole argument so very personally. Talk about the pot and the kettle.

Let's all face it, HD-DVD is dead. I have a PS3 and a 360 with the HD attachment. I really dont care, I have been very cautious up to this point when buying either format and most of my HD-DVD's are combo format anyways so no big loss. Neither format will dominate the HD era, a new format will come out that will replace Blu-Ray in the very near future (next 5 years). Sony had to win this Blu-Ray/HD-DVD war for the sake of the PS3, and when Warner made the switch that pretty much signified the end for HD-DVD. Toshiba will now start to push HD-DVD as an upconverting DVD player at a pretty good price that can also play a limited number of HD-DVD movies that were on the market. They can continue to pump out the movies that have already been transferred and sell them for $10-$15 while Blu-Rays will now skyrocket in price. Prior to the Warner announcement, every week saw a great deal of buy 1 get 1 free on Blu-Ray discs, now those deals seem to be non-existent and when I wanted to pick up Saw IV on Blu-Ray they were trying to gouge me for $30. I'm not paying that kinda money for a Blu-Ray so I will buy less movies as a result. If they lower the price on Blu-Ray discs (which I don't see happening), I actually see them trying to charge $35-$40 to recoup the cost of the new equipment that has to be produced to manufacture them for the next 12-18 months I would buy alot more, but until then, I will stick with the normal DVD format since it's tried and true and will be around long after the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray war is a distant memory.

I still watch regular DVDs, I don't like the idea of having to fork over more money to these people every few months just to do the same things again. Not everybody has or wants a big high-falutin' home theater.

God_father_87.Cuz they dont want them too. See if HD-and Blu-Ray did, HD would have a bigger bass. They dont have a high tap like the Blu-Ray. That would cut into sony's PS3 and there baby Blu. Then in a few years Blu would die. Then all PS3 out there would have the next gen bata drive.

Can somebody just answer this question why can't HD DVD and BLUE RAY exist together ???

I have both players, HD DVD is a better format; period. It would be nice if all this would end as nobody cares.

Konami can keep saying that MGS4 is not coming to the 360, because it would be financially destructive to say so since they are in a contractual agreement with Sony. The agreement most likely doesn't insist that they say so, but it would be foolish on their part to say they were coming to 360 if they were. But, and this is a big "But", they can always change their minds after their contract with Sony is up. Only time will tell. Personally, I'm not too excited about MGS4. I have mad respect for the land of the rising sun, but lately they've been churning out stale gaming properties. Hopefully MGS4 is as good as everyone wants it to be. P.S. I can't believe I just posted a response that's completely irrelevant to the article above.

All I want to do is watch movies... PS3 = my Blu-ray player 360 HD DVD add on = my HD DVD player.

So leave it to me once again to pat myself on the back as I set the record straight. Microsoft is both dumping its inventory and hoping that in doing so it spurrs new life into the HD-DVD side of the format war. Having said that, I can now go back to my peanut butter.

Thats all I needed to know. getoconnection. It's not going to happen. XBLA will get MGS1, and 2. They will remix it in HD. But thats what I had read. So dont take it like it's going to happen. Now I might have something to play on my PS3.

@wingnut99 http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/01/02/claim-metal-gear-solid-4-will-come-out-for-the-xbox-360-says-konami-rep/ ==================================================================== a "xbox360 FAN site" is NOT a very reliable source... yet, they've been saying the same thing over a year now and for some reason.. that same source keeps getting updated and it wont simply die. i wonder why. http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/01/03/rumor-squished-metal-gear-solid-4-not-coming-to-360-its-final/ ^^right back at'cha =]

Or.. http://www.gamegrep.com/news/1945-rumour_mgs_4_to_be_released_on_360_after_ps3_release_by_612_months/

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/01/02/claim-metal-gear-solid-4-will-come-out-for-the-xbox-360-says-konami-rep/

I do want to say that there is talks of MGS coming to 360. But it might be done with XBLA. Like not the new game but the old MGS games. Now Thats what I had last read. SO dont bash me for it.

@hovanPS3 MSG4 IS NOT COMMING to 360!!! Enough already....you guys just don't understand... keep dreaming! How many times does Konami have to say it ======================================================= people will keep believing mgs4 will make it to the 360 until kojima himself shoves a bamboo stick up every single fanboy's ass with a tag saying "mgs4 will NEVER BE on 360." Now.. obviously that aint happening, but they wont keep believing either and the world keep rotating. So you just buy your PS3 version of mgs4 in early 08' while people who believe in a port will wait a year/forever to play a "360 version" gee.. fanboys do miss out on alot due to loyalty, but then again to those who are NOT "fanboys" are just retarded due to that fact they knew from the begining mgs4 IS EXCLUSIVE to the PS3. Ohh and back on topic... microsoft/toshiba already screwed me over with $180 dlls with an HD-DVD add on, so...