Substitution??

#1 Posted by Shellboy (1 posts) -

ok what i really hate is havin four bars of substitution, so im askin is there unlimited substitution in storm 3 just as storm 2????

#2 Posted by Niko2308 (1 posts) -
Unfortunately my fellow ninja brother, it's the same as UNS: Generations (maybe with an extra bar to bring up to 5 this time). I hate it too especially when you really need to pull one off and can't cuz you're out of bars.
#3 Posted by thenerd64 (635 posts) -

They should have mad it optional

#4 Posted by vengefulwilberg (1636 posts) -

True.  But then the game would be as bad as Storm 2 again.  I know it is a bit of an issue; because due to how bad the guard is the majority of players minlessly does chakra dash cancel combos to break guards.  Not only that but the chakra dashes actually weakens the already crappy guard.  I like Sub bar; because people really have to think things through instead of sit still the entire match and do annoying sub jutsus and ultimates.  Plus you will be able to do cool, flashy, and painful combo cancel ultimates as well as tilt cancel ultimates. 

 

The nice thing about Storm 3 is the fact that the chakra dash no longer lowers your guard and blocking chakra dashes can finally be punished with a combo.  I really hate that ring out feature though; because there are so many ways to get knock backs and you know spammers is going to try and take advantage of that. 

#5 Posted by DeathLigerX (28 posts) -

True.  But then the game would be as bad as Storm 2 again.  I know it is a bit of an issue; because due to how bad the guard is the majority of players minlessly does chakra dash cancel combos to break guards.  Not only that but the chakra dashes actually weakens the already crappy guard.  I like Sub bar; because people really have to think things through instead of sit still the entire match and do annoying sub jutsus and ultimates.  Plus you will be able to do cool, flashy, and painful combo cancel ultimates as well as tilt cancel ultimates. 

 

The nice thing about Storm 3 is the fact that the chakra dash no longer lowers your guard and blocking chakra dashes can finally be punished with a combo.  I really hate that ring out feature though; because there are so many ways to get knock backs and you know spammers is going to try and take advantage of that. 

vengefulwilberg

 

EMS Or MS sasuke with his special. xD thats gonna be the #1 ring out!

#6 Posted by vengefulwilberg (1636 posts) -

[QUOTE="vengefulwilberg"]

True.  But then the game would be as bad as Storm 2 again.  I know it is a bit of an issue; because due to how bad the guard is the majority of players minlessly does chakra dash cancel combos to break guards.  Not only that but the chakra dashes actually weakens the already crappy guard.  I like Sub bar; because people really have to think things through instead of sit still the entire match and do annoying sub jutsus and ultimates.  Plus you will be able to do cool, flashy, and painful combo cancel ultimates as well as tilt cancel ultimates. 

 

The nice thing about Storm 3 is the fact that the chakra dash no longer lowers your guard and blocking chakra dashes can finally be punished with a combo.  I really hate that ring out feature though; because there are so many ways to get knock backs and you know spammers is going to try and take advantage of that. 

DeathLigerX

 

EMS Or MS sasuke with his special. xD thats gonna be the #1 ring out!

I agree with you all the way on that one.  XD 

Either that or get hit with Naruto's new jutsu in Kyuubi Chakra mode. 

I don't think Chidori spam is going to exist anymore now due to the fact that Chidori moves don't send you flying.

#7 Posted by sophap (1545 posts) -

I think they should've just combine the chakra bars with the substitution bars. in generation if you ran out of sub bar, then your screwed over by the other person spamming combos n the chakra dash thingy where yellow lighting appears n u dash quick using chakra, n just keep continuing combo until u run out of chakra or the other person builds enough substituition bar.

the sub bar also should charge faster, either that let you charge it. but simpliest way would be having it like storms 1 n 2 which requires chakra but have bars so you can't spam it either n have to charge it.

i see why they change to sub bars since it prevents people with turbo controllers from spamming sub, but at same time it feels like it takes no skills to teleport from the attack anyone like the old ultimate ninja series where you have to learn each characters combo and how it flow so you can plan when to press the teleport button.

either that they should add another counter to the substitution, like in the dbz games, before getting hit you block and time the attack and you would counter the person n teleport behind them, z counter or sonic swarm or something. add more counters then if they still have the substitution bar since blocking will get your shield thingy destroyed n stun, n now substitution bar will just get you owned by combos. blocking should have some counter to it as well.

#8 Posted by vengefulwilberg (1636 posts) -

I think they should've just combine the chakra bars with the substitution bars. in generation if you ran out of sub bar, then your screwed over by the other person spamming combos n the chakra dash thingy where yellow lighting appears n u dash quick using chakra, n just keep continuing combo until u run out of chakra or the other person builds enough substituition bar.

the sub bar also should charge faster, either that let you charge it. but simpliest way would be having it like storms 1 n 2 which requires chakra but have bars so you can't spam it either n have to charge it.

i see why they change to sub bars since it prevents people with turbo controllers from spamming sub, but at same time it feels like it takes no skills to teleport from the attack anyone like the old ultimate ninja series where you have to learn each characters combo and how it flow so you can plan when to press the teleport button.

either that they should add another counter to the substitution, like in the dbz games, before getting hit you block and time the attack and you would counter the person n teleport behind them, z counter or sonic swarm or something. add more counters then if they still have the substitution bar since blocking will get your shield thingy destroyed n stun, n now substitution bar will just get you owned by combos. blocking should have some counter to it as well.

sophap

Quite a few people thought of ideas like those.  Some of those ideas would have been nice.  Being stuck with only a crappy guard forced people to be more resourceful.  Some tilts can stop chakra dashes, jutsus, block the first dash and jump away, and use supports.  I have gotten better when it comes to dealing with chakra dashes; but it isn't as easy against legit players.  I think Storm 3 is going to be good despite the inclusion of some things that could be abused.

#9 Posted by sophap (1545 posts) -

yea subing is easy, but when you fight against players who know how to play, that pays attention to their chakra and sub bar, it becomes hard. usually player who does first sub will get own with the combos, the triangle, x making you release yellow lighting then dashing foward almost instantly, then just keep comboing then repeating until the other player runs out of substitution bar, and until you run out of chakra bar. battles with me and my brother we don't even do our ougi, just the ninja weapons, and comboing each other with regular jutsu at times. it becomes a wait game.

its not like in previous ps2 naruto games where you could time or learn to how the character fights, then read and kawarami the move each time instead of button mashing it. i still do with storms 2, instead of buttong mashing, i'll still time every substitution even if i'm always getting combo. just makes me feel better about myself lol.

but yea they really could've added more counters so you wouldn't be a sitting duck once your substitution bar runs out. besides doing awakening early then losing all your chakra and not being able to charge it for a while is a real down fall as well. cc could really learn from some dbz games and add more counters etc. make the game more then just a wait game.

some characters like deidara could just spam his shurikens which are his paper boms all day and it'll be hard to get close to, but once deidara distants himself again and just spamm his shurikens its pretty much rinse n repeat n you'll lose more life since substitution from a shuriken just makes you teleport above it. substitution should make you teleport always behind the opponent, regardless of what you sub from. which was why susanno players were annoying. once in that mode, your screwed since you'll just sub above the attack but beomes a waste since susanno will just hit everywhere. if it was behind susanno at least you have a better chance to escape, or counter with jutsu.

#10 Posted by Yamakoichi (318 posts) -

Unlimited Substitution + turbo controller = very bad times for everyone who is not you.

I could not be more glad that they have limited this. if you have to sub and you know they are going to pursue (the yellow lightning dash), just block, stops the dash and gives you a moment to relax, plus if you can force them to use all their subs and avoid the start of a combo, easy ultimate jutsu opening or if they perform a regular jutsu, a lot of ultimate jutsu will connect through them

also regular shurikens go through deidara's ranged combos. easy way to punish him for spamming them

#11 Posted by Toshikage (3 posts) -

True.  But then the game would be as bad as Storm 2 again.  I know it is a bit of an issue; because due to how bad the guard is the majority of players minlessly does chakra dash cancel combos to break guards.  Not only that but the chakra dashes actually weakens the already crappy guard.  I like Sub bar; because people really have to think things through instead of sit still the entire match and do annoying sub jutsus and ultimates.  Plus you will be able to do cool, flashy, and painful combo cancel ultimates as well as tilt cancel ultimates. 

 

The nice thing about Storm 3 is the fact that the chakra dash no longer lowers your guard and blocking chakra dashes can finally be punished with a combo.  I really hate that ring out feature though; because there are so many ways to get knock backs and you know spammers is going to try and take advantage of that. 

vengefulwilberg
I don't think Storm 2 was bad, I think a lot of people jumped on it late and didn't bother to learn the tactics. You can do what you have said in both UNS2 and Generations, clearly just Gen suits your fighting style better. I have also found that Generations was spoilt by the Combo cancel spam move, but clearly people figured out good tactics to get out of kind of spam. Personally I couldn't be bothered to give Generations long enough to figure out how to to counter that. In UNS2 the same thing happened to me, the OOO spammers raped me no matter what i tried. However I gave it time and became a Diedara spammer. From that i learnt how to counter the spammers and moved away from Diedara (first to Naruto, then to Sasake before resting on Itachi) and I would consider myself a top teir UNS2 player. To me both games have the potential to be tactical, they can both be cheap in different ways, its personal choice about which is preferable. As stated I prefer UNS2, however I'm sure that if I gave Generations the same amount of time as UNS2 then I would enjoy it too. However my biggest problem with Generations was the limit on Subs. I'm not a sub spammer before anyone says that (although I had been when i used naruto, sub & rasengan spam) but I feel by having a limit there is only one real tactic on Generations; make them lose all their subs, I have yet to play anyone who's tactic hasn't seemed to be that. It seems like to win you just needed to use a young character like young lee or neji and rape the combo cancel move. In UNS2 since I used Diedara, & naruto (two of the worst spammers) I knew how each character spammed and how to counter it, however the spammers also got smart and figured out how to counter someone countering their spamming. Seems like a lot of the commenters never figured out how to counter those moves and thought Storm 2 was cheap when if you spend a little time with it you realise its extremely tactical. Again maybe I'm just not good enough for Generations, but as I said clearly you werent good enough at UNS2. One isnt cheaper than the other. And thats me being as neutral as possible. FYI I hate Generations and have refused to buy Naruto Storm 3 because its lost to me what made UNS2 so great, focusing on the story mode and roster quantity rather than the quality of online gaming. This series had the potential to be (and still has) one of the best fighting series ever, what it lacks in move variety it makes up in tactical fighting. But limiting the subs also limits the amount of tactics. Thats my opinion anyway
#12 Posted by Toshikage (3 posts) -

Unlimited Substitution + turbo controller = very bad times for everyone who is not you.

I could not be more glad that they have limited this. if you have to sub and you know they are going to pursue (the yellow lightning dash), just block, stops the dash and gives you a moment to relax, plus if you can force them to use all their subs and avoid the start of a combo, easy ultimate jutsu opening or if they perform a regular jutsu, a lot of ultimate jutsu will connect through them

also regular shurikens go through deidara's ranged combos. easy way to punish him for spamming them

Yamakoichi
Unlimited Subs was never a problem for me, clearly you just hadn't learnt the tactics. For example if someone wanted to just sub spam firstly you would figure that out because they would never attack, instead waiting for you to attack so they could sub counter jutsu. But i could simply annoy them by sending an endless trail of shurikens forcing them to attack instead of wasting their chakra subing (FYI Storm 2 didn't have Unlimited subs, just lots of them, you could still run out). Another tactic with Itachi for example was to send one fireball at them, they would try to sub but since Itachi can also shoot a fireball from the air you would send a fireball immediately after your first one. The sub spamming opponent would sub out of the first (which automatically subs them into the air) only to get hit by my second one. Sub spammers simply weren't the biggest problem with Storm 2. It just shows how poor some people were at playing the game when they say things like that Shuirken spammers & puppet masters were the cheapest and worst thing about Storm 2 (puppet masters weren't cheap, just incredibly difficult to beat), along with not being about to sub out of a combo once it had started. Adding a limit to subs didn't help any of that.
#13 Posted by Toshikage (3 posts) -

Unlimited Substitution + turbo controller = very bad times for everyone who is not you.

I could not be more glad that they have limited this. if you have to sub and you know they are going to pursue (the yellow lightning dash), just block, stops the dash and gives you a moment to relax, plus if you can force them to use all their subs and avoid the start of a combo, easy ultimate jutsu opening or if they perform a regular jutsu, a lot of ultimate jutsu will connect through them

also regular shurikens go through deidara's ranged combos. easy way to punish him for spamming them

Yamakoichi
Also not to keep having a go at you, but most of the good players, spammers or not used subs as little as possible anyway, most perfered to block or dodge because subing would open you up to a different attack. The whole reason people used Hidan as a support character was for people who sub alot and would try to sub out of his combo just to get hit by an ultimate jutsu. Unlimited subs seriously is not what was bad about Storm 2, it really wasn't. it just wasn't i have to keep repeating it but its so annoying when people say that was the problem. it just wasnt