Why do people hate portable ops?

Watch it again, it's Big Boss who says that the name Zero doesn't mean anything to him. Heck, Miller even expresses at least some familiarity about the term Cipher when asked by Big Boss.

Either way, the second ending makes it blatantly clear that he admitted to his ties to Cipher (His admission to Big Boss regarding not only knowing about Cipher being involved, but also implied that he was also involved in their scheme), and considering what nearly happened to MSF as a direct result of Cipher and Miller working together, I doubt Miller's going to work with them again. Besides, if they wanted Miller to be an agent, don't you think they would have added in a line in MGS4 where EVA admits they also arranged for Miller to be killed because he was a Patriot agent? If they could add in random stuff like SIGINT and Para-Medic being Donald Anderson and Dr. Clark, respectively, being Patriot agents to explain their deaths, even when the earlier explanations for Anderson at least were good enough to pass, they certainly could do the same for Miller. MGS4 was intended to tie loose ends, so that would have been good enough.

EDIT: Also, another thing that should be addressed: If they wanted to make it blatant that he continued to act as a spy, they would have either had Miller fight Big Boss alongside Paz/ZEKE, or otherwise had him actually mock Big Boss and unveil his role similar to that of Ocelot in MGS2, or heck, how Wesker revealed his role in the first Resident Evil as a mole.

high_contrast87 posted...

*facepalm* all you do is repeat the same stuff over and over much of which isnt even relevant to what we're talking about. I seriously cant be bothered to argue with you anymore.

In regards to the cipher briefing tape, I listend to it just yesterday - I know im right, I dont need to listen to it again. Miller pretends to be just as clueless regarding what 'Zero' might mean.

Here's the part in the tape:

[SNAKE]

"Cipher"... Ring any bells, Kaz?

[MILLER]

Cipher... Cipher... it means "code." Or "zero" in Arabic numerals.

[SNAKE]

Zero...

[MILLER]

Does that mean something to you?

[SNAKE]

Not sure."

In this, Miller gave the definition of what Cipher was, meaning that he had some idea as to what Cipher was. In fact, when Miller asks if it meant anything to Snake, it was Snake who replied explicitly that he wasn't sure. Besides, that briefing tape took place before the part where Kaz and Snake talk in the second ending (that ending, in fact, stated that it took place several hours after ZEKE was defeated), where Miller pretty much admitted to at the very least knowing who they are.

And here's food for thought: If the Cipher call took place after the ZEKE battle, please explain why, despite Paz explicitly stating that Cipher created ZEKE, and thus obviously being important in Cipher's plans, ZEKE's destruction was not mentioned ANYWHERE in the call?

And it's easy for you to say I'm repeating things, since you keep on repeating that Portable Ops isn't canon despite a majority of people and their brother citing several pieces of evidence proving otherwise, including, I might as well point out, the official Metal Gear Solid series website.

high_contrast87 posted...

Eric, you're the only person ive ever seen actually post a quote that proves themselves wrong! Miller quite clearly explains the meaning of the word Cipher (it means zero) but plays completely dumb in regards to knowing who the hell Zero is - so dumb in fact that he even asks Snake if the name means anything to him.

We KNOW that Miller knows who Zero is - therefore he quite clearly isnt owning up the full extent of his familiarity with Zero to Snake.

Yes, and Big Boss also quite clearly lied about whether he knew who Zero was (He responded that he was unsure, despite it being obvious as to who it could possibly be), should we automatically assume he's a Cipher agent and didn't own up to his actions? Either that, or Big Boss was never a Patriot member to begin with, which conflicts with MGS4.

Anyways, how do you explain Miller even apologizing and admitting that he was involved in the second ending if he wasn't even owning up to it? Had I been Miller and not own up to it, I wouldn't admit to it at all, or heck, even if I did admit to it, I'd actually rub salt on the wound with it and certainly not apologize, since that's how Ocelot did it to Solidus when revealing the truth, that's how Wesker often does it when revealing the truth and/or betraying people. Heck, that's even how Paz herself acted when she did that.

high_contrast87 posted...

You've accepted that I was right - that he played dumb to recognising the name Zero and failed to own up to the full extent of his knowledge of Cipher - so theres nothing left to discuss. I dont know why you seem to think that Im saying Miller is still a Patriot spy either, Ive never remotely implied that, its obvious that as of the end of PW he's cut his ties with them. The point im trying to make is that Miller only owned up to half of what he was actually up to with Cipher and feigns ignorance regarding the organisation himself - therefore, he is untrustworthy and I expect more treachery to surface in the next game - things dont end well between him and Big Boss, we KNOW this.

I actually didn't...

As for why I am thinking that, it's because you mentioned that Miller betrayed Big Boss in the future, which, whether you said it or not, you effectively meant it. Also, the second ending strongly implies that he did admit to the full extent of his partnership (however temporary) to Cipher (Note, Cipher was heavily implied to be a super secret organization, so the mere fact that he told Big Boss that he knew what they were up to all along is effectively saying that he worked with them, at the very least. This is even supported by Big Boss's reaction to Miller's admission. Plus, Big Boss also mentioned that Miller must have been the one who brought them to Colombia in the first place with Miller confirming it with a "guilty as charged", even though it was obvious in the beginning that he brought them over, even saying as much in the beginning of the game, so the only thing he could have meant is if he knew that he was bringing Cipher members to the base.)

high_contrast87 posted...

No. Just stop arguing with me now its getting annoying. Lets just agree to disagree. He DID NOT own up to his full knowledge of Cipher (specifically his familiarity with Zero and SIGINT) and the briefing file 'CIPHER' proves this - he plays dumb. If you cant - or wont - see this, then we're done here.

Stop not wanting to see any kind of 'bad' in Miller - its bizarre to feel so strongly about a fictional character.

First off, I don't not want to see any kind of bad in Miller. Heck, if I didn't want to see any bad in Miller, one of the first things I would have denied about him is that he was a womanizer. That part was made very clear. Womanizing and sleeping around is a very bad thing, against God's will, so yes, I do see bad in Miller. No, I'm just doubtful that Miller didn't not own up.

And the CIPHER tape, like the the call, was implied to have taken place BEFORE the Second Ending, so it's not really an example. It only qualifies as an example if it took place AFTER the second ending. Even if it were an actual example, the exact same could be said about Big Boss, who continued to deny knowing who Cipher was, even though Paz made it perfectly obvious as to who it could possibly be (and that's assuming Big Boss does actually know who they are in this continuity). Sure, he may not have actually worked with them during that time, but you'd think that, his being a co-founder, and the mention of two men splitting apart from the organization, would ring more than a few bells, and he'd actually acknowledge it.

high_contrast87 posted...

No, the wiretapped phone call takes place before the second ending - the breifing tape takes place AFTER the second ending. Cipher arent even mentioned until the second ending so it can ONLY take place after that.

No, actually, most of the briefing tapes (with the possible exception of those briefing tapes that tie in directly with a mission) were implied to take place before the second ending. For one thing, the description for the cutscene theater for the ending in question specifically states that the ending takes place several hours after ZEKE's destruction. And besides, why would Big Boss ask about what Cipher was to Miller AFTER the second ending when, by that point, its obvious that he already knows due to Miller explaining the code in the ending? The only way it would make sense if it takes place before the second ending.

EDIT: Perhaps I should clarify: When I said "before the second ending", I meant between the ZEKE battle and Miller's conversation. I count the scene after the ZEKE battle as being the second ending only, as that takes place after the boss battle.