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Liquid and The Phantom Pain

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Singularity_UK

Feb 7, 2013 12:32 pm GMT
I know, another. But even after all the evidence I've seen that supports the idea of this game starring Big Boss, I still can't shake the feeling it's Liquid Snake after MGS1.

Obviously there's the amputation. I know it's the wrong arm, but I'm inclined to believe the trailer's mirrored. 'Phantom Pain' is a condition treated by Doctors through mirror therapy, so the title of the trailer's a strong hint that to make everything feel 'right' the trailer should be mirrored.

Then there's the car crash, which is pretty symbolic of how Liquid 'dies' in MGS1. He wakes up in the hospital, and there's a British flag on the wall - also a pretty strong clue as to his identity. His hair's lost its bleaching after so long indoors in a coma state.

Why would Big Boss' eye be freshly bandaged if he's already lost it a long time ago? I don't think it's even meant to be an eyepatch, it's just a head wound and a bit of misdirection from Kojima. Why would he be told to open his 'eyeS' already if he only had one?

The biggest argument against this theory is the appearance of elements from Big Boss' past - Volgin, The Boss' horse and so on. But I think this is a metaphor for how Liquid's been trying all his life to put the fact that he's nothing but a clone of a legendary man aside, to the extent that even him failing in MGS1 is used by him as proof that he's not just the clone of a perfect, infallible soldier.

This is the real Phantom Pain. That lingering echo of Big Boss' legacy, that should be gone but always haunts him like a missing limb. Liquid's obsessed with becoming more than what his (in his belief) flawed genes dictate, even when it causes him harm. Just like Nemo's obsession with Moby Dick.

Like I said, there's tons of stuff which makes the Big Boss theory more likely, but I think this is a possibility if nothing else.
Adam_Ace

Feb 7, 2013 12:48 pm GMT
Well only 6 characters (including the one in the Phantom Pains trailer) on Metal Gear Solid have had their arms detached (I love the way I say ONLY like it should be a natural occurrence) and they are Ocelot (Had his right hand cut off), Liquid (Again had his right arm cut off and added to Ocelots missing hand), The Cyborg Ninja (Had his left arm sliced off by Metal Gear Rex), Raiden (Actually detatched his limbs while using the Cyborg Armor), Zadornov (Had a prosthetic right hand which Big Boss took with him to use as a cigerette lighter). Yeah I have no opinion here but I hope that information comes in handy.
kosc88

Feb 7, 2013 1:42 pm GMT
In 1 thing you are wrong for sure - the trailer isn't mirrored. At 1 point you can see plate on the wall with a writing "stairwall," and its not mirrored. Also you can read "combat body armor" on soldiers' uniforms also from left to right. There's much more of evidence that it's not mirrored, but this is most obvious.
riddlebox89

Feb 7, 2013 3:32 pm GMT
It's not liquid because.

A) Liquid was blond haired, not brown haired.

and

B) Liquid is dead.
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I am a dedicated member of the "Walter Sullivan Is Bad-Ass" group!!!
I am the true originator of the Cookie Demon theory on the SH2 and 3 boards.
IBeRollTin

Feb 7, 2013 7:48 pm GMT
no
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hey guys i have a dig bick, you that read wrong, you read that wrong too, and you read the last sentence twice to make sure you weren't wrong again.
LodeiroSnake

Feb 7, 2013 8:11 pm GMT
riddlebox89 posted...
It's not liquid because.

A) Liquid was blond haired, not brown haired.

and

B) Liquid is dead.

A) Liquid DYED his hair blonde, he's natural brown

B) eh he's dead.
riddlebox89

Feb 7, 2013 8:15 pm GMT
LodeiroSnake posted...
A) Liquid DYED his hair blonde, he's natural brown

B) eh he's dead.

a) No his hair was made blond from being in sunlight while in...wherever the hell he was.

b) Yup, deader than Elvis.
---
I am a dedicated member of the "Walter Sullivan Is Bad-Ass" group!!!
I am the true originator of the Cookie Demon theory on the SH2 and 3 boards.
SlyCooper23

Feb 7, 2013 10:36 pm GMT
riddlebox89 posted...
LodeiroSnake posted...
A) Liquid DYED his hair blonde, he's natural brown

B) eh he's dead.

a) No his hair was made blond from being in sunlight while in...wherever the hell he was.

b) Yup, deader than Elvis.

SPOILERS*****?

His hair was sun bleached during his time in the gulf war. And it's entirely possible he lived passed MGS1. Big boss had supposedly died in mg1 then mg2 and for good in mgs4. Liquid should've died in the Hind-D crashing and again after falling off rex "That's right, from this height it would kill even you!", grey fox should've died in MG2. Solid snake supposedly died in the tanker incident. Raven should've died in the tank after being blown up. Vamp should've died after being shot when stabbing emma. And there's numerous more. Big boss, died in mg1 and mg2 and came back aaaall the way at the end of the series 15 Years later( MG2: 1999, - MGS4: 2014). Who's to say Liquid Didn't survive for a few years after MGS1?
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"We're not tools of the government or anyone else, fighting was the only thing I was good at, but at least I always fought for what I believed in''
riddlebox89

Feb 7, 2013 10:59 pm GMT
SlyCooper23 posted...
SPOILERS*****?

His hair was sun bleached during his time in the gulf war. And it's entirely possible he lived passed MGS1. Big boss had supposedly died in mg1 then mg2 and for good in mgs4. Liquid should've died in the Hind-D crashing and again after falling off rex "That's right, from this height it would kill even you!", grey fox should've died in MG2. Solid snake supposedly died in the tanker incident. Raven should've died in the tank after being blown up. Vamp should've died after being shot when stabbing emma. And there's numerous more. Big boss, died in mg1 and mg2 and came back aaaall the way at the end of the series 15 Years later( MG2: 1999, - MGS4: 2014). Who's to say Liquid Didn't survive for a few years after MGS1?

The game is over ten years old, way past the point where people should be so bent up about spoilers.

And who's to say he didn't survive? Well how about the fact that Snake and Otacon used Liquid's corpse to fool the Patriots into thinking Snake is dead, that and if you play the games and actually pay attention, you'll find that everyone who dies from a heart attack via FOXDIE stays dead.
---
I am a dedicated member of the "Walter Sullivan Is Bad-Ass" group!!!
I am the true originator of the Cookie Demon theory on the SH2 and 3 boards.
SlyCooper23

Feb 7, 2013 11:10 pm GMT
riddlebox89 posted...
SlyCooper23 posted...
SPOILERS*****?

His hair was sun bleached during his time in the gulf war. And it's entirely possible he lived passed MGS1. Big boss had supposedly died in mg1 then mg2 and for good in mgs4. Liquid should've died in the Hind-D crashing and again after falling off rex "That's right, from this height it would kill even you!", grey fox should've died in MG2. Solid snake supposedly died in the tanker incident. Raven should've died in the tank after being blown up. Vamp should've died after being shot when stabbing emma. And there's numerous more. Big boss, died in mg1 and mg2 and came back aaaall the way at the end of the series 15 Years later( MG2: 1999, - MGS4: 2014). Who's to say Liquid Didn't survive for a few years after MGS1?

The game is over ten years old, way past the point where people should be so bent up about spoilers.

And who's to say he didn't survive? Well how about the fact that Snake and Otacon used Liquid's corpse to fool the Patriots into thinking Snake is dead, that and if you play the games and actually pay attention, you'll find that everyone who dies from a heart attack via FOXDIE stays dead.

Someone will complain at some point if i didn't put spoiler alert. And they used his corpse, but MGS1-2005, MGS2-2009/2011. A lot can happen in 4 years. And hm. A heart attack is going to really keep someone dead in MGS? Big boss was blown up, then set on fire, and the end result was a torso and a head. A supposed death in a normal situation in MGS is as pointless as a death in naruto or inuyasha or some other japanimation. It means nothing.
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"We're not tools of the government or anyone else, fighting was the only thing I was good at, but at least I always fought for what I believed in''
LunarRoar

Feb 8, 2013 1:02 am GMT
It can't be Liquid for one simple reason, no one's ever survived FOXDIE.
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riddlebox89

Feb 8, 2013 1:04 am GMT
SlyCooper23 posted...
Someone will complain at some point if i didn't put spoiler alert. And they used his corpse, but MGS1-2005, MGS2-2009/2011. A lot can happen in 4 years. And hm. A heart attack is going to really keep someone dead in MGS? Big boss was blown up, then set on fire, and the end result was a torso and a head. A supposed death in a normal situation in MGS is as pointless as a death in naruto or inuyasha or some other japanimation. It means nothing.

MGS2 is 2007 to 2009, that's, tanker incident went first, so that's only two years.

And yes, if you'd actually paid attention, yes everyone who's died from FOXDIE stays dead, up to and including Liquid.

Liquid is dead, end of discussion.
---
I am a dedicated member of the "Walter Sullivan Is Bad-Ass" group!!!
I am the true originator of the Cookie Demon theory on the SH2 and 3 boards.
Adam_Ace

Feb 8, 2013 5:39 am GMT
Yeah I don't buy that quite simply because this game seems to be based in the eighties which would make Liquid, Solid & Solidus about 10 years old. Also when you see Psycho Mantis in the trailer (The Little Kid at the end of the corridor in front of the Elevator) you'll see he's about the same age swell. If I remember rightly Sniper Wolf said she had been been rescued by Big Boss while she was very young and then took her to the states and if that's the case the same could very well be true for Psycho Mantis (And for that matter all of the Foxhound in MGS1). Almost everything in the games trailer seems to fit only very well around Big Bosses story. I mean Volgin, Paz, Zadornov (Who I still maintain is the guy who got burned) these are all part of Big Bosses story and even going forward the ages of the characters seem to fit.

BTW for the sake of this argument I'm obviously implying that Phantom Pains/Ground Zeroes are the same game.
riddlebox89

Feb 8, 2013 9:42 am GMT
Adam_Ace posted...
Yeah I don't buy that quite simply because this game seems to be based in the eighties which would make Liquid, Solid & Solidus about 10 years old

This and before anyone comes in with an They're clones so they got the accelerated aging! that didn't kick in until they were well within their late 30's to early 40's.
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I am a dedicated member of the "Walter Sullivan Is Bad-Ass" group!!!
I am the true originator of the Cookie Demon theory on the SH2 and 3 boards.
SolidIngram

Feb 8, 2013 10:36 am GMT
That's some serious wishful thinking.
beardface21

Feb 8, 2013 11:26 am GMT
Isn't this game based in the mid-late 70s?

The clone kids would be in pre-school when at this is going down. But I wont be surprised if Kojima adds a child soldier back story to each clone.

However, it would be cool if GZ does show some of their upbringing.
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Ghost Recon FS: Where you can be invisible and a noob at the same time! PSN:usfstu18
griether817

Feb 8, 2013 5:17 pm GMT
LodeiroSnake posted...
riddlebox89 posted...
It's not liquid because.

A) Liquid was blond haired, not brown haired.

and

B) Liquid is dead.

A) Liquid DYED his hair blonde, he's natural brown

B) eh he's dead.

Liquid didn't dye his hair. Solid Snake who also has naturally blonde hair dyes his hair at the beginning of MGS so he isn't mistaken for Liquid.
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"So, if I'm not mistaken, you're NOT Dr. Loboto, and you DON'T pay my salary, so kindly back away from my elevator and DIE. Thank you, sir."
T3h_Shadower

Feb 8, 2013 7:27 pm GMT
griether817 posted...

Liquid didn't dye his hair. Solid Snake who also has naturally blonde hair dyes his hair at the beginning of MGS so he isn't mistaken for Liquid.

Solid and Liquid Snake both have natural brown hair. They're clones of Big Boss, after all.

All Solid did at the beginning of MGS1 was cut his hair to avoid being mistaken for Liquid, as they both had long hair at that point. The misconception that Solid was blond was because of the sepia-tone lighting for the briefing cutscenes.
SolidVulcan

Feb 9, 2013 1:09 am GMT
didnt LIQUID dye his hair blond so he could impersonate master kazuhira miller
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PSN: Solid Vulcan
T3h_Shadower

Feb 9, 2013 6:45 am GMT
SolidVulcan posted...
didnt LIQUID dye his hair blond so he could impersonate master kazuhira miller

No, Liquid's hair was already sun-bleached blond from his time fighting in the Gulf War.

Since they talked over the Codec, Liquid only needed to imitate Miller's voice (and he either did a damn good job, or Solid was very gullible). The whole wearing his shades and tying his hair was more for a visual aid (and deception) for the player.

However, even Campbell was fooled by Liquid, who requested Miller's help in the first place. Since the real Master Miller was killed only 3 days before the Shadow Moses Uprising started, Liquid either simply had to use his voice impressions, or did a loooot of commuting to see Campbell in person.