I'm sorry, this game is a major disappointment, single player wise.

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#1 Posted by Reed_Bowie (563 posts) -
Being a fan of the first two games, naturally, I wanted to get this one. I was expecting a lot, but I was let down. Firstly, the story is definitely lacking, probably because Sam Lake didn't write it, as he did for the first two games. I know that Rockstar wanted a different setting, but there never is a noir element to it that has defined the style of Max Payne. When I was playing the first and second Max Payne games, I always felt there was a deeper meaning to everything that was going on, and there was a lot of symbolism in both two stories. In Max Payne 3, I feel none of that. The plot feels pretty shallow. The gameplay was my biggest disappointment. The game was advertised to have this amazing, unique combat system, but the combat just boils down to covering and zooming in to shoot. I still prefer the combat systems of the first two games, since there was a run and gun element, and a constant need to shoot dive, which made the games fun. There was no point in adding a lock on system, while aiming, if the game has bullet time. I just set it to Free Aim. I'd say the biggest problem with the combat is the fact that the enemies take too much damage, and Max Payne takes too little damage. It's not rare to shoot an enemy 5-6 times, only to have him, not only survive, but continue shoot at you. Max Payne, however, can take about 4-5 shots before he dies. And the enemies have, almost, dead-on accuracy. Even on normal difficulty, the game is very hard, and not because of the AI, but because of the poor mechanics. No matter how I played the game, it remained heavily cover-based, which is no different from any third person shooter released after 2006. The instant you leave cover, you're going to take a lot of damage, and possibly die. Max's signature shoot dive move, has essentially become useless when fighting a group, since most of the enemies you shoot at will easily survive several of your bullets, and while you're on the ground, they can easily kill you in no time.
#2 Posted by DieselCat18 (2960 posts) -

Being a fan of the first two games, naturally, I wanted to get this one. I was expecting a lot, but I was let down. Firstly, the story is definitely lacking, probably because Sam Lake didn't write it, as he did for the first two games. I know that Rockstar wanted a different setting, but there never is a noir element to it that has defined the style of Max Payne. When I was playing the first and second Max Payne games, I always felt there was a deeper meaning to everything that was going on, and there was a lot of symbolism in both two stories. In Max Payne 3, I feel none of that. The plot feels pretty shallow. The gameplay was my biggest disappointment. The game was advertised to have this amazing, unique combat system, but the combat just boils down to covering and zooming in to shoot. I still prefer the combat systems of the first two games, since there was a run and gun element, and a constant need to shoot dive, which made the games fun. There was no point in adding a lock on system, while aiming, if the game has bullet time. I just set it to Free Aim. I'd say the biggest problem with the combat is the fact that the enemies take too much damage, and Max Payne takes too little damage. It's not rare to shoot an enemy 5-6 times, only to have him, not only survive, but continue shoot at you. Max Payne, however, can take about 4-5 shots before he dies. And the enemies have, almost, dead-on accuracy. Even on normal difficulty, the game is very hard, and not because of the AI, but because of the poor mechanics. No matter how I played the game, it remained heavily cover-based, which is no different from any third person shooter released after 2006. The instant you leave cover, you're going to take a lot of damage, and possibly die. Max's signature shoot dive move, has essentially become useless when fighting a group, since most of the enemies you shoot at will easily survive several of your bullets, and while you're on the ground, they can easily kill you in no time.Reed_Bowie

Interesting take...I do agree on several things you pointed out, such as the noir element, though I do get a sense of it being there but not quite as intense as in the previous games. I'm only on chapter 5 at the moment so I will need to give it a little more time.

As for the damage, I'm playing Max on normal and though I have come across a few tough spots I seem to be managing pretty well. Your point on the shoot dive is well taken, I seem to run into survival issues at times when lying on the ground for those several seconds.

Over all I'm liking the newest Max Payne (voice acting is very good, game play good so far and story is pretty good) though not yet to the level of the previous two games...

*+

#3 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

Some have claimed they think the first two were harder, but IMO this one is. There's no mistaing that it's a shooter's shooter that seeks to challenge the player. At first I was surprised at how hard even Easy mode felt, but I ended up improving my tactics and have beaten it on all difficulty levels, gotten platinum on all chapters in Score Attack, and so far 6 chapters platinum on New York Minute.

I game alot, esp shooters, but it's been a long time since I've played online being 54. I do play on PC though, many say it's pretty hard to play with gamepad if that's what you're using by chance. I had to take a break because trying to get platinum on chapter 7 has been much harder than I'd expected. The campaign is not that hard to beat with sound strategy though. There are more ways to play it than many think.

Some use constant shoot dodging. I use a combination of shoot dodge, bullet time, and crouched and prone shooting. Each are effective in different spots. It helps to roll to avoid getting hit too. It's possible to chain rolls together in leaving Max's apartment where the "hallway of lasers" is without even getting hit. The game's not for eveyone, but I feel it's a vlaid continuation of the series., even though it has a clearly different style.

#4 Posted by tmboyz (13 posts) -

i am playing normal and stuck on the hotel roof, loosing to the heavy gunner all the time. I am doing this day after day and going nowhere. I am stuck. This happened in Witcher2; fighting the kadweni (don't feel that great to check spellings) general, since i couldn't beat him i stopped playing that game. Hope that doesn't happen here.

#5 Posted by CondorCalabasas (654 posts) -
[QUOTE="Reed_Bowie"]Being a fan of the first two games, naturally, I wanted to get this one. I was expecting a lot, but I was let down. Firstly, the story is definitely lacking, probably because Sam Lake didn't write it, as he did for the first two games. I know that Rockstar wanted a different setting, but there never is a noir element to it that has defined the style of Max Payne. When I was playing the first and second Max Payne games, I always felt there was a deeper meaning to everything that was going on, and there was a lot of symbolism in both two stories. In Max Payne 3, I feel none of that. The plot feels pretty shallow. The gameplay was my biggest disappointment. The game was advertised to have this amazing, unique combat system, but the combat just boils down to covering and zooming in to shoot. I still prefer the combat systems of the first two games, since there was a run and gun element, and a constant need to shoot dive, which made the games fun. There was no point in adding a lock on system, while aiming, if the game has bullet time. I just set it to Free Aim. I'd say the biggest problem with the combat is the fact that the enemies take too much damage, and Max Payne takes too little damage. It's not rare to shoot an enemy 5-6 times, only to have him, not only survive, but continue shoot at you. Max Payne, however, can take about 4-5 shots before he dies. And the enemies have, almost, dead-on accuracy. Even on normal difficulty, the game is very hard, and not because of the AI, but because of the poor mechanics. No matter how I played the game, it remained heavily cover-based, which is no different from any third person shooter released after 2006. The instant you leave cover, you're going to take a lot of damage, and possibly die. Max's signature shoot dive move, has essentially become useless when fighting a group, since most of the enemies you shoot at will easily survive several of your bullets, and while you're on the ground, they can easily kill you in no time.

Max Payne 2 had far worse of a story in comparison to Max Payne 3, I'd love to hear you attempt to explain otherwise. If the gameplay boils down to taking cover, and zooming into shoot, thats your own fault. You are playing on a difficulty too easy. All of what you just described about the first two games, is in this one. Yes, some people aren't very good at aiming, so there is a point in adding a lock on system. Enemies take one bullet to kill, the only reason you think otherwise, is because you can't aim. Max Payne takes a fair amount of damage, if you are sitting behind cover all the time, you aren't exactly a hard target to hit. hahaha, the only way you can play harder difficulties is by avoiding cover all the time. You need to learn how to dodge bullets like you should've learned how to do in MP1. You are horribly inaccurate, and you saying the game is bad because its too easy on the second easiest difficulty setting. You are a joke.
#6 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

Yeah the oddest thing is the way his first paragraph somewhat contradicts the second. The combat is the biggest thing he complains about, yet it's where he is split the most. He starts out implying he doesn't need lock on or cover, then he pretty much says it's too hard the way he's playing it.

Get a little creative before you judge the game. Those that play it using only the added features or struggle without the added assists aren't really very good at thinking on their feet. The easy thing to do is blame Rockstar when the player fails to meet the challenge.

The right thing to do is fullly explore the possibilities before you pass qiuck judgment. You've nowhere near seen the possible ways to play the game yet. If you can't figure it out on your own watch some videos. A lot of the creative tactics some are using don't require much skill.

Just shoot dodging toward cover, then snapping to it unharmed with the cover key, followed by another of the same rinsing and repeating is quite effective in some spots. I can clear the guys with laser sight rifles that come out of the elevators and toss smoke in the cop lobby no scratch every time now. I even did all the work after the APC up to the heavy gunner in the office with the pistol this time and saved the grenade launcher to take him out. He went flying up and hit the ceiling. LOL

#7 Posted by CondorCalabasas (654 posts) -
The right thing to do is fullly explore the possibilities before you pass qiuck judgment. You've nowhere near seen the possible ways to play the game yet.Just shoot dodging toward cover, then snapping to it unharmed with the cover key, followed by another of the same rinsing and repeating is quite effective in some spots. I can clear the guys with laser sight rifles that come out of the elevators and toss smoke in the cop lobby no scratch every time now. Frag_Maniac
On old school, I find I only have a very brief couple seconds to take cover to reload, take a painkiller, otherwise I get flanked, or surrounded. I pretty much did the elevator part with the guys with laser sights completely in slow motion. I think its silly when people say "games are too easy no-a-days" or "this game is far too easy on normal difficulty" or "why is there so much shooting in this shooter?". I think most people don't realize is that you have to customize the experience for yourself. Along with getting proper controls down, you need to get your sensitivity right, and above all the difficulty just right. There are so many games that I stopped playing because I considered them too easy, and then decided to play through them again on a harder difficulty and now I still play them to this day. The best example of that, is the Forza series. I used to play it with a lot of the difficulty turned down, like ABS on, TCS on, automatic shifting, etc. Then one day I decided to take everything off, and now the game is a blast. Its rewarding playing a game on the hardest, or harder difficulties. And thats basically what video games are about, getting a little reward, for a little challenge.
#8 Posted by blastmaster2k2 (382 posts) -

i am playing normal and stuck on the hotel roof, loosing to the heavy gunner all the time. I am doing this day after day and going nowhere. I am stuck. This happened in Witcher2; fighting the kadweni (don't feel that great to check spellings) general, since i couldn't beat him i stopped playing that game. Hope that doesn't happen here.

tmboyz
You have to shoot him in the head. I think he's just like the other heavy gunner at Bronco Headquarters, he'll never die if you just shoot him in the body. You have to kill him with multiple shots to the head, he goes down quickly then.
#9 Posted by ronaldmcreagan (244 posts) -

i am playing normal and stuck on the hotel roof, loosing to the heavy gunner all the time. I am doing this day after day and going nowhere. I am stuck. This happened in Witcher2; fighting the kadweni (don't feel that great to check spellings) general, since i couldn't beat him i stopped playing that game. Hope that doesn't happen here.

tmboyz

Use dual wielding pistols. Or you can also use the sniper rifle. The sniper rifle will kill him in one shot, no matter where you hit him. You can get the sniper rifle earlier on in the level.

#10 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

You have to shoot him in the head. I think he's just like the other heavy gunner at Bronco Headquarters, he'll never die if you just shoot him in the body. You have to kill him with multiple shots to the head, he goes down quickly then. blastmaster2k2

Actually that is one heavy gunner in the game that doesn't require headsots to kill. If you're out in the open headshots are best, but if you're under that grating he comes out and stands on you can pummel him in the body right through the grate and take him out. It also helps to swtich to the powerful RPD in the little armory where you get the C4. There are so many effective ways to play this game, that is what's cool about it.

#11 Posted by tmboyz (13 posts) -

[QUOTE="blastmaster2k2"]You have to shoot him in the head. I think he's just like the other heavy gunner at Bronco Headquarters, he'll never die if you just shoot him in the body. You have to kill him with multiple shots to the head, he goes down quickly then. Frag_Maniac

Actually that is one heavy gunner in the game that doesn't require headsots to kill. If you're out in the open headshots are best, but if you're under that grating he comes out and stands on you can pummel him in the body right through the grate and take him out. It also helps to swtich to the powerful RPD in the little armory where you get the C4. There are so many effective ways to play this game, that is what's cool about it.

Oh!! i'll try that.
#12 Posted by Reed_Bowie (563 posts) -
[QUOTE="CondorCalabasas"][QUOTE="Reed_Bowie"]Being a fan of the first two games, naturally, I wanted to get this one. I was expecting a lot, but I was let down. Firstly, the story is definitely lacking, probably because Sam Lake didn't write it, as he did for the first two games. I know that Rockstar wanted a different setting, but there never is a noir element to it that has defined the style of Max Payne. When I was playing the first and second Max Payne games, I always felt there was a deeper meaning to everything that was going on, and there was a lot of symbolism in both two stories. In Max Payne 3, I feel none of that. The plot feels pretty shallow. The gameplay was my biggest disappointment. The game was advertised to have this amazing, unique combat system, but the combat just boils down to covering and zooming in to shoot. I still prefer the combat systems of the first two games, since there was a run and gun element, and a constant need to shoot dive, which made the games fun. There was no point in adding a lock on system, while aiming, if the game has bullet time. I just set it to Free Aim. I'd say the biggest problem with the combat is the fact that the enemies take too much damage, and Max Payne takes too little damage. It's not rare to shoot an enemy 5-6 times, only to have him, not only survive, but continue shoot at you. Max Payne, however, can take about 4-5 shots before he dies. And the enemies have, almost, dead-on accuracy. Even on normal difficulty, the game is very hard, and not because of the AI, but because of the poor mechanics. No matter how I played the game, it remained heavily cover-based, which is no different from any third person shooter released after 2006. The instant you leave cover, you're going to take a lot of damage, and possibly die. Max's signature shoot dive move, has essentially become useless when fighting a group, since most of the enemies you shoot at will easily survive several of your bullets, and while you're on the ground, they can easily kill you in no time.

Max Payne 2 had far worse of a story in comparison to Max Payne 3, I'd love to hear you attempt to explain otherwise. If the gameplay boils down to taking cover, and zooming into shoot, thats your own fault. You are playing on a difficulty too easy. All of what you just described about the first two games, is in this one. Yes, some people aren't very good at aiming, so there is a point in adding a lock on system. Enemies take one bullet to kill, the only reason you think otherwise, is because you can't aim. Max Payne takes a fair amount of damage, if you are sitting behind cover all the time, you aren't exactly a hard target to hit. hahaha, the only way you can play harder difficulties is by avoiding cover all the time. You need to learn how to dodge bullets like you should've learned how to do in MP1. You are horribly inaccurate, and you saying the game is bad because its too easy on the second easiest difficulty setting. You are a joke.

Max Payne 3's story is pretty generic with some significant plot holes. I felt that in Max Payne 2, the story was much deeper and even went on a psychological level. In Max Payne 3, I felt that Max was just complaining the whole time about how he always messes up and is going to mess up. Btw, I play on the normal difficulty with free aim, so if you think "normal" is "difficulty too easy", than I don't know what to tell you. And if you have the ability to slow down time, zoom in, and shoot, there really is no point of a lock-on system. If someone is that inexperienced that they can't aim with all those aids, they really shouldn't be shooter games. Enemies only take one bullet to kill if you get a head-shot. And later on in the game, armored enemies can take two head-shots. Max Payne dies very quickly, in some cases, only four shots. And btw, your insult at the end is pretty childish, so I don't feel the need to respond to it with more childish name-calling.
#13 Posted by yearssomuch (54 posts) -
I'd say the biggest problem with the combat is the fact that the enemies take too much damage, and Max Payne takes too little damage. It's not rare to shoot an enemy 5-6 times, only to have him, not only survive, but continue shoot at you.Reed_Bowie
[QUOTE="Reed_Bowie"] Max Payne 3's story is pretty generic with some significant plot holes. I felt that in Max Payne 2, the story was much deeper and even went on a psychological level. In Max Payne 3, I felt that Max was just complaining the whole time about how he always messes up and is going to mess up. Btw, I play on the normal difficulty with free aim, so if you think "normal" is "difficulty too easy", than I don't know what to tell you. And if you have the ability to slow down time, zoom in, and shoot, there really is no point of a lock-on system. If someone is that inexperienced that they can't aim with all those aids, they really shouldn't be shooter games. Enemies only take one bullet to kill if you get a head-shot. And later on in the game, armored enemies can take two head-shots. Max Payne dies very quickly, in some cases, only four shots. And btw, your insult at the end is pretty childish, so I don't feel the need to respond to it with more childish name-calling.

Wait, I thought one of your main gripes was that enemies take too much damage to kill? Now you're openly admitting that they go down in 1-2 shots to the head, depending on whether or not they're wearing a helmet. You can call it 'childish name-calling' if you'd like, but you really are a joke.. and a hypocrite at that.
#14 Posted by yearssomuch (54 posts) -
Also, anyone still complaining about Shootdodge being worthless clearly hasn't learned how to play the game, and they're never going to at this point. It's all about picking your moments, and a key factor being to shootdodge behind some sort of cover. Hell, the first two Max Payne games had that idea in mind, they just made it more risky in this one by making you get up slower. But why is that a bad thing? Considering this game incorporated multiplayer, they obviously had to do something or everyone online would be spamming shootdodge like they were playing Max Payne 1. But online isn't the only reason, the shootdodge needed a bit of a tweak either way. It's one of Max's main abilities, sure, but it's much better in this game where it has much more of a 'risk vs reward' factor, which is exactly how it should've always been. You'd be surprised at how many people don't even realize MP1 and MP2 had simple, basic Bullet Time WITHOUT needing to Shootdodge because all they did was, you guessed it, spam shootdodge from start to finish. It would've been boring to encourage the exact same behavior. But either way, it's far from worthless.. if anything, you're worthless for still not figuring it out. To summarize, try to avoid activating Shootdodge unless you know you can use it to jump behind some cover. The only other times it's advisable is when you know you can wipe all visible enemies in one jump, or when you know you're going to die in the situation you've found yourself in and you have no other choice BUT to shootdodge. You wouldn't believe how many times it's saved my life, both on single player and online, in situations where I thought for sure I was dead.
#15 Posted by Reed_Bowie (563 posts) -
[QUOTE="Reed_Bowie"]I'd say the biggest problem with the combat is the fact that the enemies take too much damage, and Max Payne takes too little damage. It's not rare to shoot an enemy 5-6 times, only to have him, not only survive, but continue shoot at you.yearssomuch
[QUOTE="Reed_Bowie"] Max Payne 3's story is pretty generic with some significant plot holes. I felt that in Max Payne 2, the story was much deeper and even went on a psychological level. In Max Payne 3, I felt that Max was just complaining the whole time about how he always messes up and is going to mess up. Btw, I play on the normal difficulty with free aim, so if you think "normal" is "difficulty too easy", than I don't know what to tell you. And if you have the ability to slow down time, zoom in, and shoot, there really is no point of a lock-on system. If someone is that inexperienced that they can't aim with all those aids, they really shouldn't be shooter games. Enemies only take one bullet to kill if you get a head-shot. And later on in the game, armored enemies can take two head-shots. Max Payne dies very quickly, in some cases, only four shots. And btw, your insult at the end is pretty childish, so I don't feel the need to respond to it with more childish name-calling.

Wait, I thought one of your main gripes was that enemies take too much damage to kill? Now you're openly admitting that they go down in 1-2 shots to the head, depending on whether or not they're wearing a helmet. You can call it 'childish name-calling' if you'd like, but you really are a joke.. and a hypocrite at that.

I was referring to non-head shots in my first post. If you don't get a headshot, the enemy can easily take 5-6 shots. I'm not being hypocritical at all. I'm just saying, an enemy should die quicker from torso shots. To kill an enemy quicker, one would need to take time to get headshots, which can make the combat harder than it needs to be. And I'm not even going to dignify your childish behavior with a response. If you can't debate without insulting the other person, that's honestly pretty sad.
#16 Posted by Sentinel112 (571 posts) -
The story of Max payne 2 was inconsistent and terribad. Don't know why people say it is deep or anything cuz it is not. Max Payne 3 is far better in that regard (although it is no Max Payne 1). I was really disappointed with Max Payne 2 the time it came out. The gunplay was a bit better though. But the setting, o man. The first chapter was great but the last 2 were boring as hell. The second was the worst of all three. If you compare the chapters of Max Payne 2 to the original Max Payne. Man that was a huge step back. The original was only plagued by those dream sequences. Max Payne 3 suffers from taking away too much control out of the player's hands. There are many cutscenes. True. But the real problem is that the gameplay sections themselves are too short. If it would be longer, there would be a real flow to the gameplay. I think that is the biggest flaw of Max Payne 3.
#17 Posted by TheVoles (15 posts) -
The campaign was really well done in my opinion, but the multiplayer was the cream to the cake. I was not expecting a good MP but it is pretty sweet. I think the game was well done and after the 10+ years did not let me down. :)
#18 Posted by CondorCalabasas (654 posts) -
[QUOTE="Reed_Bowie"] Max Payne 3's story is pretty generic with some significant plot holes. I felt that in Max Payne 2, the story was much deeper and even went on a psychological level. In Max Payne 3, I felt that Max was just complaining the whole time about how he always messes up and is going to mess up. Btw, I play on the normal difficulty with free aim, so if you think "normal" is "difficulty too easy", than I don't know what to tell you. And if you have the ability to slow down time, zoom in, and shoot, there really is no point of a lock-on system. If someone is that inexperienced that they can't aim with all those aids, they really shouldn't be shooter games. Enemies only take one bullet to kill if you get a head-shot. And later on in the game, armored enemies can take two head-shots. Max Payne dies very quickly, in some cases, only four shots. And btw, your insult at the end is pretty childish, so I don't feel the need to respond to it with more childish name-calling.

What plot holes? If you are going to make a claim, then you should prove it, correct? I felt the story in Max Payne 2 was overly simplistic, and obviously slapped together in the most sloppy way possible. Just using the same characters from the last game, why? Because they can. Why on earth would Vlad, go from being on Max's side, to being the bad guy? Its stupid, its the exact opposite of what the character would do from the first game. Vlad knew how powerful Max was, he helped Max out, because he knew it would stupid to get on his bad side. Vlad would've never done what he did in the second game, never. If you felt that all he was doing was complaining, then you weren't paying attention. If Max Payne 3 was made by the people who made Ninja Giaden (I don't care enough to look up the company name), there would be no normal, there would be no hard, just hardcore, and old school. So you think that would be okay? I mean, if you can't play at my level, then you shouldn't be playing shooters right? There is a reason why I called you a joke. What difficulty were you playing the last two games on? Because just like the first two, headshots are a requirement on the harder difficulties. There are only like 3 of those armoured enemies in the entire game. My insult at the end was very fair, your complaints about the game are based on false information. The setting has nothing to do with noir, it doesn't have to be set anywhere to be noir. If the combat boils down to taking cover, and zooming into shoot. Then you are playing the game on too easy of a difficulty. Its not possible to beat the game with that strategy on the harder difficulties. Not possible. "I still prefer the combat systems of the first two games, since there was a run and gun element, and a constant need to shoot dive, which made the games fun." Exactly the same in MP3, you are just playing it on too easy of a difficulty. The enemies have armour, you do not. You are supposed to shoot enemies in the head in this game, it was the same with MP 1& 2 on the harder difficulties. If you shoot enemies in the body when they do not have armour, they go down pretty fast. I take less damage when I run around, as opposed to when I take cover, maybe you are playing it wrong? You have to strategize how you use the shoot dodge just like you had to do in every other MP game.
#19 Posted by yearssomuch (54 posts) -
[QUOTE="Reed_Bowie"][QUOTE="yearssomuch"][QUOTE="Reed_Bowie"] Wait, I thought one of your main gripes was that enemies take too much damage to kill? Now you're openly admitting that they go down in 1-2 shots to the head, depending on whether or not they're wearing a helmet. You can call it 'childish name-calling' if you'd like, but you really are a joke.. and a hypocrite at that.

I was referring to non-head shots in my first post. If you don't get a headshot, the enemy can easily take 5-6 shots. I'm not being hypocritical at all. I'm just saying, an enemy should die quicker from torso shots. To kill an enemy quicker, one would need to take time to get headshots, which can make the combat harder than it needs to be. And I'm not even going to dignify your childish behavior with a response. If you can't debate without insulting the other person, that's honestly pretty sad.

As someone else already pointed out, I never had an enemy eat bullets in the chest unless they were wearing some sort of protective armor. Even on Hardcore (which is incredibly difficult, so you know.), unarmored enemies didn't take but a few shots to go down. But really, you're griping about how it's ridiculous that a Third Person Shooter is asking you to shoot enemies in the head to have an easier time not dying. Not only that, but you're complaining about this issue in a game that provides you with a slow-motion gameplay mechanic, in a game series that has always encouraged headshots. AND, you said in your first post:
"There was no point in adding a lock on system, while aiming, if the game has bullet time. I just set it to Free Aim."Reed_Bowie
So initially, you claimed Bullet Time gives you more than enough of an edge to have good precision, yet now you're complaining about how the game is 'harder than it needs to be' because the poor thing can't hit a headshot. Really? Again, call my behavior childish if that's what makes you feel better, but you're making yourself out to be a bigger hypocrite with each and every post, which is exactly why I called you a joke in the first place. It doesn't boil down to child-like insults; it boils down to you rambling negatively about things you clearly don't understand, which makes it hard to take you seriously.
#20 Posted by couly (5795 posts) -
I've never played the first two, so I think this one is simply amazing.
#21 Posted by gunnplay (222 posts) -

Max Payne has plenty of mechanics that you don't really notice until you put time into learning the controls of the game.  Have you ever went to an empty part of a level just to feel Max out?  You know, rolling, running and dive all over so you can get a feel for timing and move buffering and the like?  To me it's like, why wouldn't you do that?  I'm from the old school of gaming where you make the game yours by playing it your way. 

So many games today are so tailored that you can't really do too much outside of the box the developers create for you.  So, it's great when a game like MP3 comes along and gives you a set of mechanics, a bunch of varied weapons and a room full of enemies and just says, "Play."

All the more reason I feel sites like this should be less focused on previewing and reviewing games and more focused on talking more about how to play games

 

Did You Know?

When you do a shootdodge, do it into cover, yes.  But if you do happen to dive into the open, two words, stay down.  Do not get up, you have a better advantage returning fire from prone than you do trying to stand up.

But, do you also know that you do not have to go prone?  Tap the direction of your shootdodge as soon as Max hits the ground to transition straight into a run.  Works everytime for me, I just forget to use it a lot.

Running forward into fire is signifigantly easier when you zig-zag when you run.  Activate manual bullettime and get something automatic and the headshots come easy.

Cover is only for reloading, moving or blindfiring in real-time to build up bullettime.

#22 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

I have a feeling some don't even know you can shoot dodge right from behind low cover, even through windows, or that you can at any time during a shoot dodge tap the bullet time key to cease use of slow mo and save it when safe to do so. At times I'll start a battle by running toward a cover spot in real time and shoot dodge just as the first enemy or two appears, then tap bullet time once I've killed them and snap to cover. This way I wind up in a safe spot with lots of slow mo left in my meter. I've made it through many sections without damage even on higher difficulty levels with this and other simple strategies.

#23 Posted by yearssomuch (54 posts) -

I have a feeling some don't even know you can shoot dodge right from behind low cover, even through windows, or that you can at any time during a shoot dodge tap the bullet time key to cease use of slow mo and save it when safe to do so. At times I'll start a battle by running toward a cover spot in real time and shoot dodge just as the first enemy or two appears, then tap bullet time once I've killed them and snap to cover. This way I wind up in a safe spot with lots of slow mo left in my meter. I've made it through many sections without damage even on higher difficulty levels with this and other simple strategies.

Frag_Maniac
This. So many kids just don't understand how to play the game. With little tactics like this in mind, the game maintains a good balance between difficulty and straight-up fun. It's too good.
#24 Posted by Noobly- (14 posts) -
"I'd say the biggest problem with the combat is the fact that the enemies take too much damage." Cool story bro. Heard of headshots?
#25 Posted by Leejjohno (14085 posts) -

Playing the game more agressively is a better idea because enemies will dig in and keep you pinned down... turning an action sequence into a cover shoot. Running into a room and shootdodging before that happens is key.

What you probably liked about the first 2 games was the fact that the enemies didn't really have AI... they just stood there or ran to a preprogrammed spot and waited to be shot dead. The first games weren't that great, and the writing in the second game went down the toilet.

#26 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

I like to think of it as the first two were good for their time, more so the 1st in gameplay, the 2nd in graphics, but thankfully more than graphics have evolved with today's games.

#27 Posted by allboutkiln (508 posts) -

I agree, the fact is that even the mighty Rockstar can make some pretty lousy games. Okay. i must admit that i enjoyed one playthrough.

The "clues" seemed irrelevant, considering how linear this game is. Ignore them & you would'nt miss anything, duh!

The Golden Weapons are next to useless, my Golden G6 is crap!

I hope Rockstar would collaborate with Techland for their next game.

#28 Posted by DieselCat18 (2960 posts) -

I agree, the fact is that even the mighty Rockstar can make some pretty lousy games. Okay. i must admit that i enjoyed one playthrough.

The "clues" seemed irrelevant, considering how linear this game is. Ignore them & you would'nt miss anything, duh!

The Golden Weapons are next to useless, my Golden G6 is crap!

I hope Rockstar would collaborate with Techland for their next game.

allboutkiln

I somewhat agree...Over all I thought this was a good game but could have been better. The clues you mentioned were irrelevent, I thought they added little to nothing to the story and the golden guns weren't much of a reward improvement  from  the standard weapons, so taking the time to search for them seemed a bit of a waste.

I was hoping for these things to be incorporated more as to the way the first game made clues, notes and graphic panels important bits of info that really interacted to the story.

I'm sounding like I really disliked MP3, I didn't, I  enjoyed it and will want to play through again, but felt certain things could have been done a little better and made this a truly exceptional game.

*+

#29 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

My only gripe with golden guns is you can't just turn the gold color effect off without disabling their extended clip/ammo capacity and slight power increase.

#30 Posted by Leejjohno (14085 posts) -

[QUOTE="allboutkiln"]

I agree, the fact is that even the mighty Rockstar can make some pretty lousy games. Okay. i must admit that i enjoyed one playthrough.

The "clues" seemed irrelevant, considering how linear this game is. Ignore them & you would'nt miss anything, duh!

The Golden Weapons are next to useless, my Golden G6 is crap!

I hope Rockstar would collaborate with Techland for their next game.

DieselCat18

I somewhat agree...Over all I thought this was a good game but could have been better. The clues you mentioned were irrelevent, I thought they added little to nothing to the story and the golden guns weren't much of a reward improvement  from  the standard weapons, so taking the time to search for them seemed a bit of a waste.

I was hoping for these things to be incorporated more as to the way the first game made clues, notes and graphic panels important bits of info that really interacted to the story.

I'm sounding like I really disliked MP3, I didn't, I  enjoyed it and will want to play through again, but felt certain things could have been done a little better and made this a truly exceptional game.

*+

Spoiler alert.

A lot of the clues just beefed up the background story and lore, but some of them were quite revealing about certain characters motives and transactions. Finding out that Passos wasn't even Brazilian was one such interesting fact.

#31 Posted by skulrid (1 posts) -

Noir:I'm glad they took it a different direction. I think this was some good fresh air!

Gameplay: I'm a MP fan, and I live the gameplay on this one. Many complain abou the shootdoge and him laying down... I actually think it is great that you can kind of feel you are controling an older less agile Max.

Health: It's only when you get to the paramilitary, that have heavy armour, that you need more bullets to kill enemies. I agree it can get a bit frustrating when the bad guys are laying down and you shoot repetedly and they still get up... but if they are not wearing an helmet an headshoot does the trick.

Cues and Golden Parts: The clues don't add much but is interesting to know a little more. The golden guns... the thing is, I want to get them (even if just to feel the acomplishment) but I feel impatient that I get them all so when I restart the campaign again I won't have to look for them. It feels silly to look around the entire cemetery to look for those things when what you really need are painkillers :) I also wish we could turn the gold colour off. It's nice at first, but gets silly...

#32 Posted by hyper350 (125 posts) -

I even did all the work after the APC up to the heavy gunner in the office with the pistol this time and saved the grenade launcher to take him out. He went flying up and hit the ceiling. LOL

Frag_Maniac

I've only played through once on the PC version in Normal difficulty, but at no point were you able to use any explosives or "Grenade Launchers" until the very end of the game on the runway. I scoured each room looking for such items thinking that it seems impossible that you wouldn't be given any because of the seemingly nonstop waves of enemies coming at you. Maybe i just need to play on a different difficulty. I have also heard people talk about a "Hard Lock" to help with aiming. I searched every setting just to see if it really made any difference, but could never find it. Oh well just venting

#33 Posted by CondorCalabasas (654 posts) -

I've only played through once on the PC version in Normal difficulty, but at no point were you able to use any explosives or "Grenade Launchers" until the very end of the game on the runway. hyper350

Thats not true, during the APC section of the police station there is an RPG. Infact at least two of them. How did you take out the APC?

#34 Posted by hyper350 (125 posts) -

Well yes there was one there, but it was a one time only use. I'm talking about one that you can pick up and use whenever you want. If you remember the first two games, you had grenades and Molotovs throughout most of the game

#35 Posted by CondorCalabasas (654 posts) -

Well yes there was one there, but it was a one time only use. I'm talking about one that you can pick up and use whenever you want. If you remember the first two games, you had grenades and Molotovs throughout most of the game

hyper350
A grenade or molotov is not a grenade launcher, or RPG...
#36 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

Well yes there was one there, but it was a one time only use. I'm talking about one that you can pick up and use whenever you want. If you remember the first two games, you had grenades and Molotovs throughout most of the game.hyper350

Dude, wake up, there's a 6 round semi auto grenade launcher sitting just left of that single shot tank buster (which looks more like a LAW than RPG btw). It's sitting right on top of an ammo crate too. The grenade launcher seems to be based on the Milkor MGL, which can also be called the M32 MGL.

I was able to use the grenade launcher on all the cops that come after blowing the APC with the tank buster, restock it with ammo, then save it for the heavy I was referring to. Only takes a litte observation. I would think your first time through you'd be extra intent on scrounging for things like most are, but apprently not. :roll:

#37 Posted by blastmaster2k2 (382 posts) -

I remember at least 4 times you could use the grenade launcher, first one is on the cemetary level, guy at the top of the steps drops his after you shoot him, you can pick it up. I remember one at the very begining of the palace level to the right right before the first two guys you have to kill. At the airport and at the police station are the other 2 I remember.

#38 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

I remember at least 4 times you could use the grenade launcher, first one is on the cemetary level, guy at the top of the steps drops his after you shoot him, you can pick it up. I remember one at the very begining of the palace level to the right right before the first two guys you have to kill. At the airport and at the police station are the other 2 I remember.blastmaster2k2

Yep, but the one I mentioned is the only one where there's also an ammo crate, and it's also the spot in the game where it comes in most handy IMO.

#39 Posted by ForcefulChris (250 posts) -
Came here to post this. I've been on a shooter binge lately and this was easily the worst AAA title I've played in years. The story really is bland, the mechanics are pretty much a pretty-looking shooting gallery where you are forced to sit in cover and pop the 50 bad guys who come streaming into every fight. For a cover-based game the cover system is AWFUL. I just got finished with Deus Ex: HR which is hardly a cover-based game but at least that one let you move from cover to cover and around corners while in cover. If you actually try to shootdodge then you better pray there are no more reinforcements - because every time I used it I would be left on the floor exposed while 3 more guys run out of nowhere and gun me down while I try to stand up. Of course the accuracy is ridiculous too, stealth is utterly pointless since enemies know where you are at ALL times, I played on hard and got fed up with enemies gunning me down as soon as I exited cover while they were running AND shooting from the hip. I got killed by guys running away from me and turning to shoot and hitting me head as soon as I got up, I got hit by guys as soon as they came into the room guns blazing (despite having no idea where I was), I would get hit by guys who had objects blocking their vision. The "painkiller" health mechanic was very unsatisfying, there is almost no reason to use painkillers early, so you constantly find yourself being rewarded for making mistakes. It's pretty sad when the last kill you get in an area is some jackass popping out from behind a door and forcing you into slow-mo for an easy "redemption" kill. I'm really sad this got a 9.0 because it doesn't deserve it. Rockstar has always been weak on shooter mechanics but strong elsewhere - I suspected this game would be lousy since it pretty much revolves entirely around the shooting. I just hope they go back to their strong points.
#40 Posted by davidsworld3 (2976 posts) -

Damn yearsomuch take the topic and game a bit too seriously? You got way too much time on your hands if you spend it trolling against people you dont even know kid. Stop trying so hard to act like an adult when you are not one. I doubt you are more than 17, 18 years old tops. Probably live with your mom, probably dont own your own car, or pay bills, have a wife or gf...yeah you totally have a leg to stand on you jack ass. stfu and gtfo no one needs to take crap from a loser like you.

Personally this game sucks, they took away the atmosphere I enjoyed so much from the first game, now it's way too bright and colorful, I haven't touched it after I got to the stadium area. I just cant get into it and will probably just trade it in for re6 when it comes out, dont see a point in keeping it even though I make more than enough money to buy every game that comes out. I dont want it in my library if I dont plan on going back too it.

I'll just stick to the original.

I also agree with the tc about enemies taking a little too much damage. You shouldn't be able to pick up a gun if you have been shot more than a few times, they still need to add decent ai to all games. Only one game has seemed to impress me with behavior form ai. Perfect Dark on the N64 you shoot them in the arm they hold it, leg they limp, head of course they die, you can torture an enemy pretty much just by shoot non vital areas and watching him stumble and gasp and twitch around.

Next gen ai hasn't changed anything from the last gen. Thats pathetic.

#41 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -
@Forcefull, If you've only been on a shooter binge "lately", maybe you should have started out on Easy, esp since it sounds like you've not even played a Max Payne game before. The game is not that hard even on Old School once you get the hang of it, but it can help to go through on a lower mode to get all the golden gun upgrades first and familiarize yourself with it The Last Kill Cam, esp if you get stuck in a bad spot, can get a bit buggy, but don't assume just because you can't see an enemy that they don't have line of sight on the outer edge of your body sticking out from cover or such. To be honest, my first run on Easy felt harder than I'd anticipated, but once I got used to the game, the only thing that felt extremely challenging was getting Platinum from chapter 7 onward in New York Minute mode. After having laid off playing the game for some time, I just went back to it today, and even after forgetting the KB bindings and having to re-familiarize myself with the gameplay mechanics and a new mouse I just bought, I'm still improving my gameplay, whether in or out of cover. For the first time ever, today I managed to play a few of the tougher sections of the game no scratch on Old School. I wasn't even going for such a goal and it didn't take repeated tries. I just happened to notice I was still at full health when the battles were over. Two were while in cover staying in the same spot (last 2 gunfights of chapter 6), one was while crouched peering around objects (first big battle near the docks of chapter 5). All 3 however involved careful use of bullet time only when needed, and waiting for a heavy to reload before taking him out. The cover system CAN feel clumsy when manually running to and from it and hitting/releasing the cover key, but in ways it's also very slick, like the way you can simply shoot dodge toward cover and instantly snap to it. or instantly shoot dodge left, right or over things while in cover, even through windows. It's not the game's mechanics so much as the way some people don't make the best use of it. It takes a bit of experimenting. @david, Maybe YSM exaggerated a bit making it sound like everyone not liking and/or struggling with the game are "kids", but when you use that kind of language when he's not being so overtly hostile, it does sound a bit immature. I agree on some things you said, like the flashy colors if you mean the onscreen effects, but I think you need to go back and play the original you like so much if you think the AI hasn't improved. Even in MP 2 the AI just stood there waiting for you for the most part. MP has always been a headshot game. A big part of what makes it seem harder now (eg: enemies seeming to take more bullets) is the AI are smarter and thus harder to hit. They DO however give you a cover system and environmental hazards to deal with it better. That said, some of my best tactics have been using free aim shooting while crouched, without even using bullet time. There really are lots of ways to play this game and improve your tactics, and the ones shown in the demo trailers are some of the least effective. It really only feels clumsy and frustrating if you use the less effective tactics, but clearly playing only up to the stadium level is not going to give you enough time to even get to know the game well. For instance I've played through the game several times, yet I didn't discover until today that one of the stadium battles can be avoided via hiding.
#42 Posted by davidsworld3 (2976 posts) -

Yeah I'm just gonna stick with the original, the ai really hasn't changed that drastically, and hate the new setting for it. The gritty story from the first one, had much better dialouge, was more fun for me, especially the drug scenes, were creepy in a good way.

Yearssomuch took it too far to begin with, and obviously wasn't going to listen to any constructive critisism, tc never said it was a fact, just his opinion so I still say the kid needs to go get a job and stay the f out.

I'll probably trade this in for the new transformers game, I enjoyed the last one a lot, and know there are a number of issues with the next one mostly mp, but not getting it for mp, just want to play a sp game that is actually fun enough for me personally to play all the way through.

Guess the tc has stopped coming in. Well I'm done here for those that enjoy the game good for you, hope it was worth it for you, but I didn't like it.

#43 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

...the ai really hasn't changed that drastically...davidsworld3

Actually that's one of the things some that feel it's too hard are struggling with. The AI are quite a bit more aggressive, work together, and flank you. They will even bob their heads around when shooting at them in bullet time. The AI also aren't scripted to do the exact same thing every time when they react to the player. AI is one of the areas they changed the game the most from the first two, other than the look, story and adding a cover system.

#44 Posted by KittenMittens13 (1 posts) -
[QUOTE="CondorCalabasas"] What plot holes? If you are going to make a claim, then you should prove it, correct? I felt the story in Max Payne 2 was overly simplistic, and obviously slapped together in the most sloppy way possible. Just using the same characters from the last game, why? Because they can. Why on earth would Vlad, go from being on Max's side, to being the bad guy? Its stupid, its the exact opposite of what the character would do from the first game. Vlad knew how powerful Max was, he helped Max out, because he knew it would stupid to get on his bad side. Vlad would've never done what he did in the second game, never. If you felt that all he was doing was complaining, then you weren't paying attention.

I've finally played MP3 over the weekend and I've got to say that above anything else I was completely embittered by the simplicity and shallowness of the story! (The gameplay wasn't bad, I played on hard and it posed a nice challenge at times, missed a lot of the golden guns though) I'd love you to elaborate on how the use of past characters was simplistic, when it actually allowed the characters of Vlad, Woden and Mona to become more complex and interesting. Your question about Vlad flip-flopping can only be attributed to naivety or a sort of childish polarized mind. Firstly, the great thing about the characters in the first MP games was that nobody was completely good or bad, there is rarely such a thing in real life unless you believe the populist identity politics of Fox News or most contemporary Hollywood blockbusters etc. In fact, you almost got the feeling that Vlad did actually like you but knew that he had to kill you (same with Mona) which makes him more human and less like a cartoon-villain. Secondly, he was using you bro! Didn't you get that? He needed the mob (who are actually in the pay of Woden) wiped out. You were the perfect dude to do it. Then immediately after you'd done the job, the cleaners (in the pay of Vlad) came after you. There was so much more going on in the MP2 story that you don't realise until later on and the whole illuminati type "inner circle" setting made it feel much bigger and darker. The fact that Max was personally tied up in it all (being used as a pawn for both sides in MP2) made it gripping and entertaining. In both of the prequels you felt like Max had no choice but to keep going, he'd had everything taken from him and had nothing to lose but everything to gain. MP3 on the other hand is obviously written by a completely different author (no surprise it resembles GTA with its penchant for clubs, drugs and obsession with shallow, obtrusive wealth). There isn't any depth to the story or the characters. The "big twist" is that human trafficking thing but finding out about that (and then finishing the game to find that was the biggest twist) is completely underwhelming. All in all I came away from the whole thing feeling empty and wondering why Max even continued to try to help these borign characters past the 2nd chapter! TL;DR: Characters in MP1+2 had more depth and were much more interesting. The story in MP3 seems to made for/by adolescent boys
#45 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

What you're complaining about story wise, as is the case with most, is purely personal preference. There are just as many people complaing about the story in MP2, be it the cheesy romance, the corny Baseball Bat Boy segments, including one where you're guarding Vinnie actually DRESSED as him, and the reliance on mythical elements (Illuminati) to create suspense, like THAT hasn't been done before.

I think a lot of people just don't relate to the story in MP3 because Max is more vulnerable. We also finally see a more gritty Max too though. He DOES climb up out of that self pity phase somewhat. The dilaog is more realistic than romantic, but that's a big part of what made the first two sound forced and contrived, esp given the setting they took place in with crazy dope and sex addicts around all the time.

Realistic is in fact one of the primary antonyms of romantic. I for one applaud Rockstar's having boldly stepped away from a heavy reliance on noir romanticism. It's one of the primary things that keeps Max looking and feeling grounded and in touch with his roots as a cop playing the protective vs rebounding romantic role. Everything from the dialog, to the way he speaks it, to the way he carries his guns is more realistic in this one.

#46 Posted by Gankstar_VX84 (34 posts) -

I thought the game was good. I still haven't finished it mind you, I got it for ps3 and recently bought a PC. I wanna borrow my friends PC version, but anyways. The brazillian setting sucks, it just does there's no 2 ways about it, in general it's good beacause it's rockstar and it has everything you would expect a rockstar game to have, but it's not a good max payne.

everything about the game lacks, in comparison to mp2. it's like they tried to make it more realistic which isn't what the game needed. the guns don't sound as good as they did in mp2, there's no emphasis on styllish killing, or any style at all really and the mp was a total borefest and simple detracted from the story.

and the worst thing worth mentioning is that it feels like grand theft auto with god awful aiming on the consoles. and the lock-on aspect was good in gta, beacause gta wasn't about stylish skill based killing, and it was good in red dead redemption, beacause in that game you were either on a horse or a moiving train and it was more about ease of access.

it's a good game, but 9.0 is pushing it, and I think MP2 is still the daddy.

#47 Posted by ocstew (4381 posts) -
I think the AI is really smart, and maybe that's the downfall; it might be too tough on some players. For the first time in a game, body armour is actually pseudo-realistic, in the sense that it actually eats lower calibre bullets and isn't merely a secondary health bar.
#48 Posted by jk80 (1843 posts) -

I agree with the OP for the most part, the gameplay is much more that of a tactical shooter because of the higher difficulty.

#49 Posted by dudeomg1 (12 posts) -

I havn't read all your big paragraphs yet but. How did this game have a great story? All it was was a stupid little "Poor me story" and nothing develops until the end

It basicially went like this everytime he started talking."My life sucks, Smoke, drink, pills, My life sucks even more, Smoke more drink more, more Pills, People i was suppose to save died, Im unless (poor me), Oh I have to save this girl so my life can mean something THE END.

I was expecting the game to keep me on the edge of my seat but it was soo despressing and had the same patterned in the story throughout the game.

The gameplay was'nt good as everyone says either I was hoping it was be waaay better than stranglehold but it just felt dull and kinda generic. This is just my opinion.

P.S. im NOT trolling this is all just my opinion

#50 Posted by FlankerDFMax (1777 posts) -

I'm disappointed in this edition of MP as well. The first two games are still on my all time FPS favorites list.......................so they were big shoes to fill. Unlike some; I don't mind the move to Brazil at all.....................it was time for a location change and it was a good one. My four biggest MP 3 buzz killls are:

I'm shocked by the number and length of cut scenes (bring back the graphic novel style!), and the way the Devs have deliberately made Max not only an addict but a total moron as well. Through the innumerable cut scenes and tightly scripted control of Max's path through, what is admittedly a corridor shooter, I must have quit playing two dozen times with the exasperated thought "No one is this ******* stupid (Max)!" I'm left feeling the Dev's should have just made the whole game a movie, so I could have dropped it into my optical drive, pressed play, and walked away. Corridor shooter or not....................I want more control of my character, and to make my own choices, to progress through the game. Max doing one of two REALLY DUMB (i.e. sucicidal) things during the game would have been enough to illustrate his deteriorated mental state and judgement. I didn't need a dozen plus such situations. Ultimately..................MP 3 played me.................I didn't play it.

On top of all the above...................using near constant optical in game distortion as another way of showing Max's mental and emotional deterioation....................is REALLY annoying, and a cheap gimmick. No thanks!

Not making the game moddable, I really miss the custom weapons and costumes of the original......................this feature really gives a game legs via replayability. Bad call, Devs!

No save game! I really enjoyed playing the same section over and over and over.................due to the svae point feature.

Good game....................could have been great though. :(