Absolution deserves more than a 7.5

  • 84 results
  • 1
  • 2
#51 Posted by 2bitSmOkEy (2713 posts) -

The "big blood money" levels being broken up into pieces (as you say) doesn't make them "big blood money" levels now does it? Also, I prefer Hitman 2 over Absolution as well, not just Blood Money. Hitman 2 very closely resembled Blood Money, just rougher around the edges and, well, older. There was a clear and obvious upgrade between those 2 games, whereas there is a clear and obvious dumbing down between Blood Money and Absolution. I'm sorry to say but you're blindly defending this game.

#52 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

The "big blood money" levels being broken up into pieces (as you say) doesn't make them "big blood money" levels now does it? Also, I prefer Hitman 2 over Absolution as well, not just Blood Money. Hitman 2 very closely resembled Blood Money, just rougher around the edges and, well, older. There was a clear and obvious upgrade between those 2 games, whereas there is a clear and obvious dumbing down between Blood Money and Absolution. I'm sorry to say but you're blindly defending this game.

2bitSmOkEy

Silent Assassin tends to focus on missions in enemy strongholds. Whereas by contrast Blood Money focused on social events, Opera house, Mardi Gras, Weddings. Silent Assassin had some fairly linear levels that far more closely resemble Absolution.

I did not say that these broken up sections make up a Blood Money esque level. If you have played King Of Chinatown, Terminus Hotel, The Vixen Club, Chinese New Year, Streets Of Hope, The Arena, Courthouse, Blackwater Park, The Penthouse. You'd know that the game is actually quite open, not always to the extent of Blood Money though. But these missions tend to match up in size to something along the lines of A New Life from Blood Money or The Seafood Massacre from Contracts.

They also have levels that resemble Hunter And Hunted from Hitman Contracts. Some resemble the size of Tracking Hayamoto from Silent Assassin. They have a solid amount of these sprinkled throughout the experience. Yet you dismiss these in the interest of your own arguement.

The disguise mechanic more closely resembles Silent Assassin and Contracts, it also makes more sense in reality, but you once again dismiss this in favor of your own arguement. The way in which they implemented this mechanic makes sense, and doesn't confuse the player either. It's VERY useful if you understand how to utilize it properly and is also one of the reasons Absolution is actually a more difficult game than Blood Money.

You claim it's dumbed down, yet the disguise system actually makes moving around the environment more difficult for the player, adding in an extra layer of tension and thought to each movement. The Instinct meter allows players to see enemy patterns, points of interest and such, but this is no different than the God map from previous games. But now you can only see these things within a certain radious, once again making it more difficult.

Silent Assassin had clever use of stealth, something Blood Money did not. Absolution brings this element back to the forefront as well. Which as a long time fan was happy to see make a return.

#53 Posted by babyboy9680 (68 posts) -

I Agree with Contracts420 , hes been right this whole time, other then that, i think most people dislike this game more then the previous Hitman game is simply because there not good at the game, they suck at it, and they want it to be more easier for them, meaning, they want something simply they can do in game that allows them to walk through the game without the slightest difficulty......and this is why allot of games are failing today watch is a major problem....games today are being simplified, & hand holding, there making them for more stupider people in other words :) , games are becoming less challenging because people who are playing them now days are stupider,and less skilled, and are like crying babies when a challenge is put in there face, in result now games are so easy these days there no challenge at all, soon if this keeps up all games will be tutorials

#55 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

From critics it's averaging about 7.9 on GameRankings.com, and 8.0 on Metacritic.

Users on GameSpot are rating it 8.4, and users on Metacritic are rating it 7.1, the lowest of which are the PC users, rating it 6.9.

Conclusion, GameSpot users are often too fanboyish and/or console content to give a useful opinion, and Metacritic users, like I keep telling people, have a pretty good grasp of how good or bad games are. They're like the Yelp of game reviews, their PC users particularly.

The shame is the game actually DOES bring a lot of improvements to the Hitman franchise, but it also brings a disguise/detection system that does not work nearly as well as in past titles.

Since those in like uniforms detect you easily, and those in unlike ones are clueless, the game has people doing things like crouch walking right through a circle of cops talking with one another while dressed as a store clerk to avoid store employees acting like detective wannabes. Uh, excuse me, the cops are the ones supposedly looking for you and aware of your description.

Eidos has already said on their official forum they are considering tweaking the disguise system. To those implying the game isn't broken, eg working as intended, I argue why then does Eidos not seem to be sure of that?

The scoring is also flawed. You can actually BUILD your score by killing then hiding bodies due to the silent kill bonus, yet subduing and hiding bodies only makes you break even. In an assassin game where the objective is to get in undetected and kill specific targets, there shouldn't even BE a silent kill bonuis for non target NPCs.

#56 Posted by 2bitSmOkEy (2713 posts) -

I Agree with Contracts420 , hes been right this whole time, other then that, i think most people dislike this game more then the previous Hitman game is simply because there not good at the game, they suck at it, and they want it to be more easier for them, meaning, they want something simply they can do in game that allows them to walk through the game without the slightest difficulty......and this is why allot of games are failing today watch is a major problem....games today are being simplified, & hand holding, there making them for more stupider people in other words :) , games are becoming less challenging because people who are playing them now days are stupider,and less skilled, and are like crying babies when a challenge is put in there face, in result now games are so easy these days there no challenge at all, soon if this keeps up all games will be tutorials

babyboy9680

Not sure if serious. You're complaining about modern games being too dumbed down and yet that's exactly what has happened with Absolution.

#57 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

Since those in like uniforms detect you easily, and those in unlike ones are clueless, the game has people doing things like crouch walking right through a circle of cops talking with one another while dressed as a store clerk to avoid store employees acting like detective wannabes. Uh, excuse me, the cops are the ones supposedly looking for you and aware of your description.

Eidos has already said on their official forum they are considering tweaking the disguise system. To those implying the game isn't broken, eg working as intended, I argue why then does Eidos not seem to be sure of that?

Frag_Maniac

Once again. If they made the disguise mechanic itself inconsistent it would cause confusion for the player. So they do not change the rules for any given level. From a game design perspective this makes all the sense in the world.

They have considered tweaking the system not because it's broken, but many fans are complaining it's too difficult as is. They feel that they get caught too easily. This is common knowledge really.

#58 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

[QUOTE="babyboy9680"]

I Agree with Contracts420 , hes been right this whole time, other then that, i think most people dislike this game more then the previous Hitman game is simply because there not good at the game, they suck at it, and they want it to be more easier for them, meaning, they want something simply they can do in game that allows them to walk through the game without the slightest difficulty......and this is why allot of games are failing today watch is a major problem....games today are being simplified, & hand holding, there making them for more stupider people in other words :) , games are becoming less challenging because people who are playing them now days are stupider,and less skilled, and are like crying babies when a challenge is put in there face, in result now games are so easy these days there no challenge at all, soon if this keeps up all games will be tutorials

2bitSmOkEy

Not sure if serious. You're complaining about modern games being too dumbed down and yet that's exactly what has happened with Absolution.

So what exactly is being dumbed down? Not the disguise system, as a matter of fact people have been complaining it makes the game too hard.

Of course you skip right over my post though. Just because the levels aren't always as open as Blood Money, this is your complaint as to why the game is supposedly dumbed down and why it sucks? Yet half of them are clearly around the size of A New Life, or The Seafood Massacre, or The Jacuzzi Job and Graveyard Shift from previous entries.

You seem to believe every entry was exactly like Blood Money, but this is FAR from true. You clearly wear you biases on your sleeve. It's impossible to take somebody seriously who has little knowledge of the series as a whole and has a particular fixation on only one entry.

#59 Posted by 2bitSmOkEy (2713 posts) -

I'm NOT denying my bias at all, Hitman 2 and Blood Money are 2 of my favorite stealth games ever.  I felt Blood Money was more or less the same thing as Hitman 2 but bigger, better, and more thought provoking (rare these days!).   Basically what our conversation has devolved into is me pointing out how I don't like how small and cramped Absolution is, and then you start naming off missions from previous games that were also small (as if I'm actually going to remember exact mission names from games I played a long time ago).

 

My question to you is, are you really trying to tell me that Absolution isn't way smaller and cramped than both Blood Money and Hitman 2, but specifically Blood Money (some specific missions aside, apparently).  And again, the reason the new disguise system is crap is BECAUSE the levels are so cooridoory.  If you don't agree with that then please explain exactly why, because from what I can tell that's the only reason.  

 

Finally, it's not like my dislike for the game is for some malicious and unreasonable goal.  I'm just a fan that was extremely hyped for a new Hitman and it turned out to be exactly what I didn't want from the game.  Mind you, I also felt that this was a game that couldn't possibly suck, all they had to do was continue down the path they've been polishing since the start....

#60 Posted by 2bitSmOkEy (2713 posts) -

Double post, sorry.

#61 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

Actually, he's right, this one is dumbed down regarding disguises and detection. It's basically the same scenario most every level. You have two NPC types and two disguise choices, being one of the uniforms either are wearing. In areas where there's just one NPC type, you cannot choose a uni of disimilar type, and since they easily spot you in a like type uni, it makes no sense to wear one in those areas.

In areas with two NPC types they are generally spread out evenly. This means using level gimmicks like invulnerable hide spots where you're magically invisible, enviro distractions, or that gimmicky head ducking Instinct to fool people. It also often involves weird methods like crouch hiding near civlians or even police if using a non cop disguise. "Excuse me officer while I hide behind you from that curious store clerk."

Sophistication in stealth games is using true stealth where the maps and game design allow the player to remain totally undetected by all NPCs, not by using crazy gimmicks like this magic Instinct and hide spot stuff. Hell, even setting off fireworks in a convenience store doesn't even make the cops suspicious. They just stand there coughing.

If you think all of those whom complain about the disguise and detection system can't beat the game on harder levels, you're dead wrong. Many of them have beaten all Hitman games on the hardest levels with good scores, and in some of the prior ones, it was plenty hard to do that. In this one you don't even have to use a briefcase to carry rifles, they're magically concealed and can therefore ALWAYS be carried.

You imply this game is very challenging and has good stealth, yet in SO many ways it's stealth relies on unrealistic gimmicks. You need to get a clue that the game can be just as challenging and still make more sense by just balancing how diguises and detection works. There are really only a few levels that involve realistic scenarios where there are all one type NPCs and you have to slip past unspotted with careful timing, vs using Instinct and hide spots, but those are also too easy due to the map design.

#62 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

Actually, he's right, this one is dumbed down regarding disguises and detection. It's basically the same scenario most every level. You have two NPC types and two disguise choices, being one of the uniforms either are wearing. In areas where there's just one NPC type, you cannot choose a uni of disimilar type, and since they easily spot you in a like type uni, it makes no sense to wear one in those areas.

In areas with two NPC types they are generally spread out evenly. This means using level gimmicks like invulnerable hide spots where you're magically invisible, enviro distractions, or that gimmicky head ducking Instinct to fool people. It also often involves weird methods like crouch hiding near civlians or even police if using a non cop disguise. "Excuse me officer while I hide behind you from that curious store clerk."

Sophistication in stealth games is using true stealth where the maps and game design allow the player to remain totally undetected by all NPCs, not by using crazy gimmicks like this magic Instinct and hide spot stuff. Hell, even setting off fireworks in a convenience store doesn't even make the cops suspicious. They just stand there coughing.

If you think all of those whom complain about the disguise and detection system can't beat the game on harder levels, you're dead wrong. Many of them have beaten all Hitman games on the hardest levels with good scores, and in some of the prior ones, it was plenty hard to do that. In this one you don't even have to use a briefcase to carry rifles, they're magically concealed and can therefore ALWAYS be carried.

You imply this game is very challenging and has good stealth, yet in SO many ways it's stealth relies on unrealistic gimmicks. You need to get a clue that the game can be just as challenging and still make more sense by just balancing how diguises and detection works. There are really only a few levels that involve realistic scenarios where there are all one type NPCs and you have to slip past unspotted with careful timing, vs using Instinct and hide spots, but those are also too easy due to the map design.

Frag_Maniac

Previous entries had some of these issues as well. Most areas only had one or two uniforms the player could wear in order to proceed undetected, or they were forced to utilize stealth. Usually the best option was a mix of the two. But disguises can help. If utilized properly you could buy yourself more time. Utilizing exploits has always been a part of the series. It's no different here, I will give you that though.

Blood Money allowed the player to freely roam an area undetected at all times. Once you obtained a uniform all difficulty was swept under the rug. While I am by no means saying that the disguise system of Absolution is better, I am saying that it does provide more difficulty than the system used in Blood Money. My arguement is simply that it's not a casual system. It does provide more difficulty than that of Blood Money.

However I never said those complaining can't finish the game on harder difficulties. But that one of the main reasons causing complaints is due to difficulty. People want it to return to the way in which it was implemented in Blood Money, a more casual implementation. With Absolution they tried to give the player an ability, but without making it a crutch. Although I am more than willing to concede that the system is not perfect, as really... it's never been in this series.

You do seem to think that I believe the system and game is absolutely perfect. That is far from true, however unlike others I can give credit where credit is due and put my biases aside, I am willing to concede points. I am not fixated on one iteration like many others. I can clearly see that the developers poured their hearts and years of experience with the series into this iteration. Am I saying it's perfect... not at all. But unlike others I want to give credit for things it does right, and not just blindly berate the game for a few misteps along the way.

Simple really.

#63 Posted by 2bitSmOkEy (2713 posts) -

Fair enough, I'll make it clear on the stuff I did like about Absolution.  First of all, the graphics are gorgeous.  That is undeniable, and it's clearly crafted by very talented individuals.  Second of all, the scoring system while playing the single player is a nice touch, it's cool being able to see the world average etc etc.  It would add some replayability for sure.  Also, the multiplayer is an excellent idea and I hope it returns in future Hitman games, just with better gameplay xD.

 

However, I don't think you're quite getting what it is about Absolution's disguises that are so bad.  You're claiming people don't like it because it's harder than it was in Blood Money, which in a way I guess that is true.  But it also doesn't really add any strategy to the missions, which they definitely did in Blood Money.  As you said, a lot of the times you would find yourself using stealth plus disguises plus many other aspects to succeed in a mission.  With Absolution, the strategy is more or less gone and it's now all about avoiding enemies or exploiting some sort of level gimmick.  Not to mention, it just doesn't feel as epic as previous Hitman games, you don't feel like a total badass hiding from chefs or cops.

#64 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

I'm NOT denying my bias at all, Hitman 2 and Blood Money are 2 of my favorite stealth games ever. I felt Blood Money was more or less the same thing as Hitman 2 but bigger, better, and more thought provoking (rare these days!). Basically what our conversation has devolved into is me pointing out how I don't like how small and cramped Absolution is, and then you start naming off missions from previous games that were also small (as if I'm actually going to remember exact mission names from games I played a long time ago).

My question to you is, are you really trying to tell me that Absolution isn't way smaller and cramped than both Blood Money and Hitman 2, but specifically Blood Money (some specific missions aside, apparently). And again, the reason the new disguise system is crap is BECAUSE the levels are so cooridoory. If you don't agree with that then please explain exactly why, because from what I can tell that's the only reason.

Finally, it's not like my dislike for the game is for some malicious and unreasonable goal. I'm just a fan that was extremely hyped for a new Hitman and it turned out to be exactly what I didn't want from the game. Mind you, I also felt that this was a game that couldn't possibly suck, all they had to do was continue down the path they've been polishing since the start....

2bitSmOkEy

I have already conceded that the game is of a more linear design. My problem is simply you, you decided to spew out complete nonsense by saying that It's purely linear, and that the series before this entry was always open. I simply wanted to point out that the game does have some fairly open missions, quite a few actually, and point out that linear, more cramped missions had been in Hitman 2 Silent Assassin. I simply wanted you to concede that both are not new to the series.

You also said that Blood Money was better in EVERY way other than visuals. Which is also complete nonsense. Almost everything with you is purely subjective rather than objective, which is why your opinion on the matter has for the most part amounted to BS.

The problem I have with your opinion on disguises isn't that you prefer the way it was in Blood Money, but that you refuse to acknowledge some of the improvements or changes to the mechanic. Now I am not saying this mechanic is neccesarily better, but you don't seem to realise that Blood Money's system was equally ridiculous. It's all in the name of game design. You seem to believe it makes no sense that a group working a security detail would know one another, or a close community of workers and chefs in Chinatown might know one another. For some reason you believe this makes less sense than NOBODY knowing eachother.

However I do agree, the mechanic is hit and miss. But it's far from terrible. However I also see that they created it to be consistent for a reason. Given more time maybe they would have approached this differently, but the same could be said for Blood Money.

I simply think you should put your biases aside and ackowledge the game for things it does right, instead of simply berating the game for some of its misteps as well. Keep in mind I remember Hitman Silent Assassin fans and Contracts fans being quite upset with Blood Money for awhile due to it being a far more casual experience when compared with previous entries.

#65 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

Fair enough, I'll make it clear on the stuff I did like about Absolution. First of all, the graphics are gorgeous. That is undeniable, and it's clearly crafted by very talented individuals. Second of all, the scoring system while playing the single player is a nice touch, it's cool being able to see the world average etc etc. It would add some replayability for sure. Also, the multiplayer is an excellent idea and I hope it returns in future Hitman games, just with better gameplay xD.

However, I don't think you're quite getting what it is about Absolution's disguises that are so bad. You're claiming people don't like it because it's harder than it was in Blood Money, which in a way I guess that is true. But it also doesn't really add any strategy to the missions, which they definitely did in Blood Money. As you said, a lot of the times you would find yourself using stealth plus disguises plus many other aspects to succeed in a mission. With Absolution, the strategy is more or less gone and it's now all about avoiding enemies or exploiting some sort of level gimmick. Not to mention, it just doesn't feel as epic as previous Hitman games, you don't feel like a total badass hiding from chefs or cops.

2bitSmOkEy

See, just acknowledge some of the games strengths. Take away some of your personal preference and look a little more objectively at the game. That's all I'm really asking. This post is far more appropriate and something I have an easier time respecting.

This post of yours is much better than your previous ones. Far more reasonable.

#66 Posted by 2bitSmOkEy (2713 posts) -

I'm sorry but in what way is Absolution actually better than Blood Money (graphics aside). I just don't see it. Lets get specific here, this is where most people exit stage left from an argument.

#67 Posted by Leejjohno (14088 posts) -

[QUOTE="2bitSmOkEy"]

.......And then you totally dodged my main point, the tiny and linear levels are ultimately what kills Absolution. I mean I'm clearly not going to convince you of anything (nor do I even care to), you have your mind set on Absolution being this amazing followup to the best Hitman ever made, Blood Money. It's not like I'm the only person complaining about how bad Absolution is, it's everyone from professional critics to series fans alike.

 

Also, my real problem with disguises is not that it doesn't make sense (which it doesn't), it's that from a gameplay point of view it's basically pointless. Why even have it in the game, they should have just came up with some other gameplay mechanic that meshes better with the smaller and simpler approach to level design that Absolution brings to the table.

contracts420

 

The disguises are useful, but you need instinct to utilize them. You could also get a less common disguise which would be even more useful.

 

You may find the levels small, but you seem to completetly object to the fact that their ARE Blood Money like levels in the game. Quite a few actually. Not all 17 levels are such, but they are also broken up into pieces. Some of these pieces actually resemble Blood Money esque levels. While you may prefer Blood Money, just know that there are fans who thought Blood Money was the most casual entry in the series and tend to prefer Hitman 2 Silent Assassin. Which Absolution more closely resembles.

The game basically forces confrontation and upon looking back you should realise you spent a third of all your play time utilising a throwable object/radio and a container for hiding bodies, which are everywhere. Because for some reason, this variant of 47 can still be classed as a silent assassin even when somebody discovers the body of your target and you strangled half of the population to achieve it, but only a rank of shadow if your objective didn't revolve around killing and you never touched anybody and were never spotted.

This game is trash compared to previous games. At least contracts revamped the first games best missions and had better police AI and audio effects to boot.

I would also say that besides a few tension building tracks, the soundtrack has taken a dive imo but I can see that as being very subjective.

#68 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

I'm sorry but in what way is Absolution actually better than Blood Money (graphics aside). I just don't see it. Lets get specific here, this is where most people exit stage left from an argument.

2bitSmOkEy

Now the A.I is hit and miss in both entries, but the A.I is superior in this title.

They communicate with one another, they might even change up their routine based on your actions. I have had many targets change their course completely based on something I did.

They don't break quite as easily running around like chickens with no head.

Sound design has improved, if you can't concede this point then you must be in denial. The music picks up, mellows, rises and folds depending on multiple variants. Even the sound of a heartbeat can add to the tension.

Gameplay interface, instead of forcing the player to use a menu to scroll through items around them, they are now delegated to specific buttons. Making it a less tedious process. No more can the player accidentally pick up an object, you must hold the button down for a period of time. Instead of forcing the player out of gameplay to enter a map for points of interest or watching enemy patterns, you can now do this while playing with Instinct mode. The enemy awareness radiual will pin point the direction of a suspicious NPC for the player. Weapons, objects and gadgets are no longer tied to a menu, the player can switch between these and holster them without removing themselves from gameplay.

It's a longer game, and with the addition of Contracts mode and the inclusion of leaderboards, the player now has more reason than ever to jump back in and play. So... more replay value.

Many of the mechanics themselves have been improved, firing a weapon is more satisfying than ever. You can now hold your breath and fire for pinpoint accuracy by slowly holding down the trigger before firing. Cover mechanic is very much appreciated instead of being forced to kiss a wall waiting for a guard to pass. I can also now roll between objects due to this.

Giving the player the ability to choke out or snap a NPC's neck. Allowing the player to use fiber wire and drag their victim seemlessly without having to pop in and out of states. Affording the player a more accessible way of tossing objects wether they be to distract or to harm, being able to see where your tossed object will land.

And one of the coolest inclusions... difficulty scaling, adding more enemies to the mix as well as removing the HUD/All on screen assists that might help the player. Oh and toss in challenges, which gives the player more incentive to jump back in as well.

I'd say that is quite a bit. The game does have issues obviously, but you can't forget to give it props for all the great things it does do, which for some reason people seem to skip over.

#69 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

[QUOTE="contracts420"]

[QUOTE="2bitSmOkEy"]

.......And then you totally dodged my main point, the tiny and linear levels are ultimately what kills Absolution. I mean I'm clearly not going to convince you of anything (nor do I even care to), you have your mind set on Absolution being this amazing followup to the best Hitman ever made, Blood Money. It's not like I'm the only person complaining about how bad Absolution is, it's everyone from professional critics to series fans alike.

Also, my real problem with disguises is not that it doesn't make sense (which it doesn't), it's that from a gameplay point of view it's basically pointless. Why even have it in the game, they should have just came up with some other gameplay mechanic that meshes better with the smaller and simpler approach to level design that Absolution brings to the table.

Leejjohno

The disguises are useful, but you need instinct to utilize them. You could also get a less common disguise which would be even more useful.

You may find the levels small, but you seem to completetly object to the fact that their ARE Blood Money like levels in the game. Quite a few actually. Not all 17 levels are such, but they are also broken up into pieces. Some of these pieces actually resemble Blood Money esque levels. While you may prefer Blood Money, just know that there are fans who thought Blood Money was the most casual entry in the series and tend to prefer Hitman 2 Silent Assassin. Which Absolution more closely resembles.

The game basically forces confrontation and upon looking back you should realise you spent a third of all your play time utilising a throwable object/radio and a container for hiding bodies, which are everywhere. Because for some reason, this variant of 47 can still be classed as a silent assassin even when somebody discovers the body of your target and you strangled half of the population to achieve it, but only a rank of shadow if your objective didn't revolve around killing and you never touched anybody and were never spotted.

This game is trash compared to previous games. At least contracts revamped the first games best missions and had better police AI and audio effects to boot.

I would also say that besides a few tension building tracks, the soundtrack has taken a dive imo but I can see that as being very subjective.

No idea what you're talking about. I tend to go for a very clean score, not touching anybody. I do utilize objects within the game world, why not? Blood Money allowed the player to throw an infinite amount of coins to distract enemies.

I don't quite follow your statements about achieving Shadow. If you have no target, you have nobody to assassinate and instead of taking out ANY NPC's you simply ghost through the mission. Shadow seems fitting... doesn't it? It actually makes sense.

#70 Posted by 2bitSmOkEy (2713 posts) -

Ok, let me just say that I was obviously a little harsh, not to mention rude, with my original posts about this game.  I just want to explain why exactly this game rubbed me the wrong way (and continues to do so).  

 

Blood Money was a hugely underappreciated game.  To this day I still don't know of any other game that plays quite like it.  The real star of that game wasn't the actual stealth gameplay mechanics, nor the gunplay, not the story or production values, but just straight up the levels and set pieces.  It felt like a traditional stealth game that was mixed with a hefty does of strategy and the Sims (lol, it worked though).  With Absolution, I feel that entire idea has been removed completely or extremely simplified (or rather, on a much much much smaller scale).  The focus has been shifted towards the actual stealth gameplay, and yes I guess you could say it's better but then again I also don't care for Instinct system. 

 

The production values are indeed amazing across the board, from the graphics to the music to the voice acting.  But tbh it all feels like exactly the wrong stuff I was hoping for out of a new Hitman game.  When you couple that with the fact Blood Money came out 6 years ago, PLUS there aren't exactly a whole lot of good stealth games coming out these days, well maybe you can understand why I was so disappointed.  Anyways, I still think if someone was a big fan of Blood Money they probably won't like Absolution all that much.  But if you're completely new to the series then I can see how this game would be rather impressive.

#71 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

Ok, let me just say that I was obviously a little harsh, not to mention rude, with my original posts about this game. I just want to explain why exactly this game rubbed me the wrong way (and continues to do so).

Blood Money was a hugely underappreciated game. To this day I still don't know of any other game that plays quite like it. The real star of that game wasn't the actual stealth gameplay mechanics, nor the gunplay, not the story or production values, but just straight up the levels and set pieces. It felt like a traditional stealth game that was mixed with a hefty does of strategy and the Sims (lol, it worked though). With Absolution, I feel that entire idea has been removed completely or extremely simplified (or rather, on a much much much smaller scale). The focus has been shifted towards the actual stealth gameplay, and yes I guess you could say it's better but then again I also don't care for Instinct system.

The production values are indeed amazing across the board, from the graphics to the music to the voice acting. But tbh it all feels like exactly the wrong stuff I was hoping for out of a new Hitman game. When you couple that with the fact Blood Money came out 6 years ago, PLUS there aren't exactly a whole lot of good stealth games coming out these days, well maybe you can understand why I was so disappointed. Anyways, I still think if someone was a big fan of Blood Money they probably won't like Absolution all that much. But if you're completely new to the series then I can see how this game would be rather impressive.

2bitSmOkEy

This I can absolutely respect. If you just prefer Blood Money, that is fine. I can understand that Absolution wasn't quite what you had hoped for. This is understandable. My problems had simply been with your statements claiming it was just a bad game, that is sucks. That you gave it no credit for the great things it did do. But looking back, you were most likely just frustrated.

#72 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

I can give credit where credit is due and put my biases aside, I am willing to concede points. I am not fixated on one iteration like many others. I can clearly see that the developers poured their hearts and years of experience with the series into this iteration. Am I saying it's perfect... not at all. But unlike others I want to give credit for things it does right, and not just blindly berate the game for a few misteps along the way.contracts420

I don't see anyone here "blindly" berating the game. If anything we've given lots of valid points, as others have, regarding how the added gimmicks aren't necessary and too relied upon. I also don't see anyone claiming Bloody Money to be perfect. The ideal game might have been something combining the best elements of past titles and this one.

Regarding bias though, we could just as easily say you defend the game far too much when you don't even acknowledge some of the changes we've mentioned to be over simplified and over the top trickery. The disguises in past titles were also not completely fool proof. They were generally based on proximity, duration and angle of view, like they should be. It's just that the suspicion parameters weren't stiff enough, but then it depends what level you play it on.

They didn't really need a totally new system, they only needed to tweak the old one and we could have had both challenge and relaism. There's a lot of things I like about this game, and it's roughly have realistic and half gimmicky considering many of the levels can be snuck through with timing vs hiude spots and Intinct. With proper patching it has the potential to be a lot better, but I still think the stealth elements they added will always make it one of the more arcade games in the series.

#73 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

[QUOTE="contracts420"]I can give credit where credit is due and put my biases aside, I am willing to concede points. I am not fixated on one iteration like many others. I can clearly see that the developers poured their hearts and years of experience with the series into this iteration. Am I saying it's perfect... not at all. But unlike others I want to give credit for things it does right, and not just blindly berate the game for a few misteps along the way.Frag_Maniac

I don't see anyone here "blindly" berating the game. If anything we've given lots of valid points, as others have, regarding how the added gimmicks aren't necessary and too relied upon. I also don't see anyone claiming Bloody Money to be perfect. The ideal game might have been something combining the best elements of past titles and this one.

Regarding bias though, we could just as easily say you defend the game far too much when you don't even acknowledge some of the changes we've mentioned to be over simplified and over the top trickery. The disguises in past titles were also not completely fool proof. They were generally based on proximity, duration and angle of view, like they should be. It's just that the suspicion parameters weren't stiff enough, but then it depends what level you play it on.

They didn't really need a totally new system, they only needed to tweak the old one and we could have had both challenge and relaism. There's a lot of things I like about this game, and it's roughly have realistic and half gimmicky considering many of the levels can be snuck through with timing vs hiude spots and Intinct. With proper patching it has the potential to be a lot better, but I still think the stealth elements they added will always make it one of the more arcade games in the series.

For some reason you think that I have not acknowledged some of your points as well as others, yet I have. Read my previous posts and you will see. I'm starting to think you simply skim and even skip over some of my posts.

"It's not like I'm the only person complaining about how bad Absolution is, it's everyone from professional critics to series fans alike"

"This game is trash compared to previous games"

"I'm sorry but in what way is Absolution actually better than Blood Money (graphics aside). I just don't see it"

You don't see anybody blindly berating the game, huh? All I have been doing is trying to get Absolution some credit where it deserves it. That's it, that has been the whole point of all of this.

#74 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

"It's not like I'm the only person complaining about how bad Absolution is, it's everyone from professional critics to series fans alike"

"This game is trash compared to previous games"

"I'm sorry but in what way is Absolution actually better than Blood Money (graphics aside). I just don't see it"

You don't see anybody blindly berating the game, huh? contracts420

Had you said "blatantly" vs "blindly", you'd have had a point, at least on that one comment that implies it's complete trash.

The rest of the comments are understandable given that Eidos themselves have recognized the need to tweak the disguise parameters, and the fact that the game clearly strays drastically in the most basic of it's elements from previous Hitman titles, ways that could have and should have been play tested better for feedback.

There's nothing blind about playing a game, making observations, and commenting on them pro or con. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, esp those forking over full price. To call their comments blind implies they've not played through the whole game, or played it at all. Who are you to call people's opinions blind criticism? Are you psychic? Can you see whether they've played it or not?

It's not so much that you're unconditionally defending the game, that much is clear, as you've mentioned some criticisms too. It's that you're going overboard about what others have to say about it. Earlier you ended a post with the word simple, as if to say we cannot grasp basic points, yet you so easily miss the one I just made. Also, what is up with the all bold text? You really DO think we're blind don't you? :roll:

#75 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

[QUOTE="contracts420"]"It's not like I'm the only person complaining about how bad Absolution is, it's everyone from professional critics to series fans alike"

"This game is trash compared to previous games"

"I'm sorry but in what way is Absolution actually better than Blood Money (graphics aside). I just don't see it"

You don't see anybody blindly berating the game, huh? Frag_Maniac

Had you said "blatantly" vs "blindly", you'd have had a point, at least on that one comment that implies it's complete trash.

The rest of the comments are understandable given that Eidos themselves have recognized the need to tweak the disguise parameters, and the fact that the game clearly strays drastically in the most basic of it's elements from previous Hitman titles, ways that could have and should have been play tested better for feedback.

There's nothing blind about playing a game, making observations, and commenting on them pro or con. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, esp those forking over full price. To call their comments blind implies they've not played through the whole game, or played it at all. Who are you to call people's opinions blind criticism? Are you psychic? Can you see whether they've played it or not?

It's not so much that you're unconditionally defending the game, that much is clear, as you've mentioned some criticisms too. It's that you're going overboard about what others have to say about it. Earlier you ended a post with the word simple, as if to say we cannot grasp basic points, yet you so easily miss the one I just made. Also, what is up with the all bold text? You really DO think we're blind don't you? :roll:

The rest of the comments are understandable? No they are not, by any means. One implies that Absolution is a bad game in general and that the general opinion is that it's a bad game. Which is no doubt ridiculous, and untrue. At this point we should be able to judge quality objectively, you may think the game is bad in your tastes, but is it REALLY a bad game? No, not at all.

I hate Demon's Souls. But do I think it's a bad game... no.

I think "blindly berating" is perfectly acceptable. When somebody can't find a single thing better or improved in this game over the previous entry other than visuals, I'd say they must be blind. I made a list of improvements yet he was apparently oblivious to them.

When somebody calls a quality title "trash" I'd figure they must be blind as well.

#76 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

[QUOTE="contracts420"]"It's not like I'm the only person complaining about how bad Absolution is, it's everyone from professional critics to series fans alike"

"This game is trash compared to previous games"

"I'm sorry but in what way is Absolution actually better than Blood Money (graphics aside). I just don't see it"

You don't see anybody blindly berating the game, huh? Frag_Maniac

Had you said "blatantly" vs "blindly", you'd have had a point, at least on that one comment that implies it's complete trash.

The rest of the comments are understandable given that Eidos themselves have recognized the need to tweak the disguise parameters, and the fact that the game clearly strays drastically in the most basic of it's elements from previous Hitman titles, ways that could have and should have been play tested better for feedback.

There's nothing blind about playing a game, making observations, and commenting on them pro or con. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, esp those forking over full price. To call their comments blind implies they've not played through the whole game, or played it at all. Who are you to call people's opinions blind criticism? Are you psychic? Can you see whether they've played it or not?

It's not so much that you're unconditionally defending the game, that much is clear, as you've mentioned some criticisms too. It's that you're going overboard about what others have to say about it. Earlier you ended a post with the word simple, as if to say we cannot grasp basic points, yet you so easily miss the one I just made. Also, what is up with the all bold text? You really DO think we're blind don't you? :roll:

But to give you a better example.

I am also a big Splinter Cell fan. Been playing the series since its inception. Chaos Theory has remained my favourite entry throughout. When Conviction released, as I played through it I was angered to say the least. I actually went on forums, and even expressed my hatred.

I thought Conviction was "trash" I even proclaimed that any fan of the first four would hate it. Even though it was a lie (but I believed it at the time) I felt any real fan who had played the series would think the same.

I completely missed out on so many great elements, I essentially played through the entire game "blindly" all because I was frustrated, angered by the changes. I felt beyond visuals and sound the game was "trash" compared the previous entries. I refused to acknowledge the games strengths, I refused to give the game any credit.

But eventually somebody made me realise I was being harsh, bitter and that I completely missed out on the game because of this. They made sure to sink the point home. Now I can play through Conviction and I love it, is it my favourite entry? Nope. But I still really enjoy it now. I can see it's a great game, even if it wasn't exactly what I wanted.

#77 Posted by Frag_Maniac (2059 posts) -

The rest of the comments are understandable? No they are not, by any means. One implies that Absolution is a bad game in general and that the general opinion is that it's a bad game. Which is no doubt ridiculous, and untrue. At this point we should be able to judge quality objectively, you may think the game is bad in your tastes, but is it REALLY a bad game? No, not at all.contracts420

What part of people have a right to their opinion do you not get? To some people bad means 7.5/10, but that doesn't mean they don't think it has the potential for 8.5/10 if patched well, which can put it in the good category. Geez, you really spend so much time spewing bold text you think your's is the only opinion that counts don't you? And on that note, I'm going to let you just talk to yourself, because you clearly can't grasp the obvious.

#78 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

[QUOTE="contracts420"]The rest of the comments are understandable? No they are not, by any means. One implies that Absolution is a bad game in general and that the general opinion is that it's a bad game. Which is no doubt ridiculous, and untrue. At this point we should be able to judge quality objectively, you may think the game is bad in your tastes, but is it REALLY a bad game? No, not at all.Frag_Maniac

What part of people have a right to their opinion do you not get? To some people bad means 7.5/10, but that doesn't mean they don't think it has the potential for 8.5/10 if patched well, which can put it in the good category. Geez, you really spend so much time spewing bold text you think your's is the only opinion that counts don't you? And on that note, I'm going to let you just talk to yourself, because you clearly can't grasp the obvious.

Never once did I say somebody is not entitled to their own opinion. But just because I say the grass outside is red in my opinion doesn't make it so.

You seem to think that just because it's their opinion, that it makes it okay. They created a scale between 1 and 10, 1 being the worst and 10 being the best, and because somebody believes in their own opinion that a 7.5 is bad, that it's automatically okay? It's not okay, we would just be giving people free reign to spew diatribe without any reasoning or objective thinking. Everything would be subjective and regardless of what is true or false, you simply would not be able to argue it.

This sort of mentality is nonsensical.

#79 Posted by contracts420 (1956 posts) -

[QUOTE="contracts420"]The rest of the comments are understandable? No they are not, by any means. One implies that Absolution is a bad game in general and that the general opinion is that it's a bad game. Which is no doubt ridiculous, and untrue. At this point we should be able to judge quality objectively, you may think the game is bad in your tastes, but is it REALLY a bad game? No, not at all.Frag_Maniac

What part of people have a right to their opinion do you not get? To some people bad means 7.5/10, but that doesn't mean they don't think it has the potential for 8.5/10 if patched well, which can put it in the good category. Geez, you really spend so much time spewing bold text you think your's is the only opinion that counts don't you? And on that note, I'm going to let you just talk to yourself, because you clearly can't grasp the obvious.

You should also realise this is a discussional forum, if you are bold enough to make claims that are not true, you should be able to accept that somebody will challenge them.

You seem fixated on my bold text, yet this is completely unrelated to the topic at hand and yet you seem adamant on making it a point of interest. Your illogical way of thinking is actually unhealthy for any open discussion, debate or arguement. You simply believe that opinion is above logic or objectivism.

#80 Posted by lewins7 (383 posts) -

Ergh, contracts420 posting/debate style is absolutely horrendous.

Anyway the game deserves more than a 7.5 from a large game reviewing website like Gamespot, as a standalone game there's very little wrong with it, the combat is tough, the graphics are some of the best i've seen on this console, the physics are superb & then sniping the most satisfying from any game i've ever played, I also enjoyed the story (and believe people are being harsh when critisising this part of the game), it's biggest problem is it's name and lead character, change those and it scores 9s accross the board.

It's lost the large sandbox levels and the ability to easily hide in plain sight (probably down to the reduction in level size), which pretty much kill it as a Hitman game though. I shouldn't be ducking & weaving through the map like i'm playing Splinter Cell and it's perfectly reasonable that fans of previous Hitman games are a bit annoyed that after 6 years of waiting this is what they've gotten, a great action-stealth game, not a great Hitman game.

As for the 2 main additions to gameplay, the disguise system and the instinct metre 

In parts I agree with the disguise system but it needs refining, certain disguises need to be more effective than others for one, for example, trying to pass off as security in a department store should be harder than trying to pass off as a police officer wearing a gas mask in a crowded city street, or cleaning staff in a large hotel "Ooo i've never seen you before in this massive 20 story building, you must be a Hitman! I'll notify the guards." Absolutely stupid. This doesn't have to be "an easy button" either, it's the job of the developers to make it challenging: Security checkpoints, metal detectors, padded searches, ID badges, retinal scanners, thumb scanners, sniffer dogs, security cameras, ect ect, there's a whole myriad of ways to make the game challenging, this instant detection if you're wearing the same outfit as someone else is probably the worst of them all.

 

#81 Posted by alphatango1 (3778 posts) -

Well you two can always take it outside.....

My 10 cents worth is that I actually quite like the disguise system. Shock horror! As an old Hitman, I don't find it that difficult and enjoy the challenge. Imagine how lame the train station map would be if all you had to do was don an outfit and no one would bat an eyelid. No, the fact that your disguise is just that and it could erupt into a firefight at any moment adds to the tension and the music reflects the impending danger. Bravo. 

Absolution is the most polished of the series. The music is amazing and is one of the best tie in to events that I have encountered. The animation is also very smooth. The main issue are the linear maps and hand holding. The game lacks the creativity and freedom of expression that have graced earlier incarnations. Certain player choices have also gone begging which makes no sense and makes me believe that the production team are not true fans of the series.

They had the makings of a great game with all the ingredients, But Hitman Abso0lution shot himself in the foot by extracting what made the title special.

#82 Posted by predthemaster33 (26 posts) -

Hello everybody!

To begin with, in my opinion this game also deserves more than a 7.5.

The game was enjoyable and has many new great futures and improvements.

I am an big/huge fan of agent 47 and the Hitman series, but that doesnt say that I only think good about this game. There are of course things that went backwards, and things that could have been better. I really enjoyed Blood Money, and wish it looked in some aspects more on this game. A game can never be to everybodys liking, people have different expectations, feelings, interests and so on. That is why we all debate/discus about it:-D

Secondly, I must to say that I think that contracts420 has a valid point and I agree with his opinion. It is not that he states that people have no right on their own opinions, he says that when people have an opinion on something they dont have to be true. It is just their individual opinion to which they are entitled to. And there is nothing wrong with his bold text.

The function of a forum is partly for debating/discussion, if you like it or not. And if some people cant handle or grasp that it is very sad to see. (I am not pointing with my finger to persons, I mean it in general sense).

That all aside, I hope everybody enjoys gaming as much as I do (or even more)! And I hope that the next Hitman game will be even better than all the ones before it! But with agent 47 I have no doubts!

Greetings,

Klaas

#83 Posted by SipahSalar (100 posts) -

7.5 or 8.5 doesn't really matter as long as you had a quality time. The review score is just there to oversimplify just one person's perspective of the game. The user score is 8.6 so you should feel satisfied as most regular users only consider the user score.

 

 Still this has been a decade old problem concerning reviews no matter how much you explain to people that it doesn't really matter.

#84 Posted by Leejjohno (14088 posts) -

[QUOTE="Leejjohno"]

[QUOTE="contracts420"]

[QUOTE="2bitSmOkEy"]

.......And then you totally dodged my main point, the tiny and linear levels are ultimately what kills Absolution. I mean I'm clearly not going to convince you of anything (nor do I even care to), you have your mind set on Absolution being this amazing followup to the best Hitman ever made, Blood Money. It's not like I'm the only person complaining about how bad Absolution is, it's everyone from professional critics to series fans alike.

 

Also, my real problem with disguises is not that it doesn't make sense (which it doesn't), it's that from a gameplay point of view it's basically pointless. Why even have it in the game, they should have just came up with some other gameplay mechanic that meshes better with the smaller and simpler approach to level design that Absolution brings to the table.

contracts420

 

The disguises are useful, but you need instinct to utilize them. You could also get a less common disguise which would be even more useful.

 

You may find the levels small, but you seem to completetly object to the fact that their ARE Blood Money like levels in the game. Quite a few actually. Not all 17 levels are such, but they are also broken up into pieces. Some of these pieces actually resemble Blood Money esque levels. While you may prefer Blood Money, just know that there are fans who thought Blood Money was the most casual entry in the series and tend to prefer Hitman 2 Silent Assassin. Which Absolution more closely resembles.

The game basically forces confrontation and upon looking back you should realise you spent a third of all your play time utilising a throwable object/radio and a container for hiding bodies, which are everywhere. Because for some reason, this variant of 47 can still be classed as a silent assassin even when somebody discovers the body of your target and you strangled half of the population to achieve it, but only a rank of shadow if your objective didn't revolve around killing and you never touched anybody and were never spotted.

This game is trash compared to previous games. At least contracts revamped the first games best missions and had better police AI and audio effects to boot.

I would also say that besides a few tension building tracks, the soundtrack has taken a dive imo but I can see that as being very subjective.

 

No idea what you're talking about. I tend to go for a very clean score, not touching anybody. I do utilize objects within the game world, why not? Blood Money allowed the player to throw an infinite amount of coins to distract enemies.

 

I don't quite follow your statements about achieving Shadow. If you have no target, you have nobody to assassinate and instead of taking out ANY NPC's you simply ghost through the mission. Shadow seems fitting... doesn't it? It actually makes sense.

The difference is that the coin would attract visual attention, but if somebody saw you throw it, it would arouse suspicion. In this game I have stood in front of somebody and thrown a fire extinguisher over his head only for him to "investigate" the noise.

Why do people not realise that 12 men have gone awol investigating a switched on radio or car alarm? It makes no sense. Why do I spend more than half of my in game time hiding unconsious bodies? Why is that easier than sneaking around the AI?