Cerny trying to Replicate spu on the ps4

http://www.gamechup.com/ps4-will-have-many-launch-titles-trying-to-replicate-ps3-spu-runtime-system-cerny/

He also revealed that they are trying to replicate the SPU Runtime System of the PS3. If you remember the SPUs were able to do little tasks very efficiently and at lightning speed, reducing the load off the GPU. Since the PS4 doesnt have the Cell processor, there needs to be a different way achieve the same effect. Cerny explains how they are trying to accomplish this. Were trying to replicate the SPU Runtime System (SPURS) of the PS3 by heavily customizing the cache and bus, he said. SPURS is designed to virtualize and independently manage SPU resources. For the PS4 hardware, the GPU can also be used in an analogous manner as x86-64 to use resources at various levels. This idea has 8 pipes and each pipe(?) has 8 computation queues. Each queue can execute things such as physics computation middle ware, and other proprietorially designed workflows. This, while simultaneously handling graphics processing. He also mentioned that developers probably wont be using this functionality early on in the PS4s lifecycle but later on this could become an extremely important function. The PS4 will be launched this holiday season and more information will be released at E3. Most developers reacted positively at PS4 specs, and majority of them praised the 8GB GDDR5 RAM of the system.

so less stress on gpu more grahics more Gflops?

is he talking about replicating efficiency or replicating the capabilities of rendering graphics on the CPU?

is he talking about replicating efficiency or replicating the capabilities of rendering graphics on the CPU?

Gue1

Rendering Graphics on the Cpu give the cpu tasks like they did with the spu less stress on the gpu

Well, software rendering isn't necessarily a new concept.  Before GPUs, that's just what PC games did.  I wonder what kind of tools or structural components of the CPU are allowing for this.  Seems like it would need more than 1.6 GHz CPU to pull off in an effective fashion.

teh Cell #2 ?lezgoyolo

Already trying to get an extra boost out of the crippled hardware? Sad times indeed for $ony. RIP.

I think what they mean is they are trying to smooth out the GPGPU capabilities of the system by recreating a software environment PS3 developers are already familiar with.

I think what they mean is they are trying to smooth out the GPGPU capabilities of the system by recreating a software environment PS3 developers are already familiar with.

PC_Otter

Yeah, I was thinking it would just make for a more familiar way of working with PS4 (if your engineering team builds engines and such on PS3).

[QUOTE="PC_Otter"]

I think what they mean is they are trying to smooth out the GPGPU capabilities of the system by recreating a software environment PS3 developers are already familiar with.

wakefulness

Yeah, I was thinking it would just make for a more familiar way of working with PS4 (if your engineering team builds engines and such on PS3).

The PS4 has an APU which is even better at doing what the Cell was supposed to be good at doing.

[QUOTE="Gue1"]

is he talking about replicating efficiency or replicating the capabilities of rendering graphics on the CPU?

Whiteknight19

Rendering Graphics on the Cpu give the cpu tasks like they did with the spu less stress on the gpu

I don't see the point in that given that the GPU has GPGPU support though...

Altho the improved vector extentions should be able to handle graphics too.

This does'nt really mean that they are trying this on the CPU alone, right? In theory, they can use the Stream processors on the GPU to emulate the SPU's on the Cell. The only reason I can see for doing this is to be able to have BC support later on. 

This does'nt really mean that they are trying this on the CPU alone, right? In theory, they can use the Stream processors on the GPU to emulate the SPU's on the Cell. The only reason I can see for doing this is to be able to have BC support later on. 

Martin_G_N

not only that :) the cpu was doing quite alot of tasks more then the Gpu since the Gpu was Shite and doing all that on the cpu it took less straint on the gpu and took very little amount of Ram to.. if u was to replicate that onto the cpu on the ps4 killzone prolly wouldnt use up 1.4gig already

This does'nt really mean that they are trying this on the CPU alone, right? In theory, they can use the Stream processors on the GPU to emulate the SPU's on the Cell. The only reason I can see for doing this is to be able to have BC support later on.

Martin_G_N

AMD Jaguar CPU core supports Intel's 256bit AVX SIMD by "double pumping" it's 128bit SIMD units.

This does'nt really mean that they are trying this on the CPU alone, right? In theory, they can use the Stream processors on the GPU to emulate the SPU's on the Cell. The only reason I can see for doing this is to be able to have BC support later on.

Martin_G_N

GCN's CU would it's SPU while AMD Jaguar would it's IBM PPE(the real CPU).

GCN's memory operations would be similar to X86-64 CPU.

AMD's APU *is* AMD's CELL but with X86 style and backed by Radeon HD graphics IP.

[QUOTE="Whiteknight19"]

[QUOTE="Gue1"]

is he talking about replicating efficiency or replicating the capabilities of rendering graphics on the CPU?

nameless12345

Rendering Graphics on the Cpu give the cpu tasks like they did with the spu less stress on the gpu

I don't see the point in that given that the GPU has GPGPU support though...

This does'nt really mean that they are trying this on the CPU alone, right? In theory, they can use the Stream processors on the GPU to emulate the SPU's on the Cell. The only reason I can see for doing this is to be able to have BC support later on.

Martin_G_N

It depends on the quality of the abstraction layer. For PS3 games, they would need just 6 SPUs and 1 PPE. The 7th SPU is handled by ARM Trustzone/Auxiliary CPU.

http://www.gamechup.com/ps4-will-have-many-launch-titles-trying-to-replicate-ps3-spu-runtime-system-cerny/

He also revealed that they are trying to replicate the SPU Runtime System of the PS3. If you remember the SPUs were able to do little tasks very efficiently and at lightning speed, reducing the load off the GPU. Since the PS4 doesnt have the Cell processor, there needs to be a different way achieve the same effect. Cerny explains how they are trying to accomplish this. Were trying to replicate the SPU Runtime System (SPURS) of the PS3 by heavily customizing the cache and bus, he said. SPURS is designed to virtualize and independently manage SPU resources. For the PS4 hardware, the GPU can also be used in an analogous manner as x86-64 to use resources at various levels. This idea has 8 pipes and each pipe(?) has 8 computation queues. Each queue can execute things such as physics computation middle ware, and other proprietorially designed workflows. This, while simultaneously handling graphics processing. He also mentioned that developers probably wont be using this functionality early on in the PS4s lifecycle but later on this could become an extremely important function. The PS4 will be launched this holiday season and more information will be released at E3. Most developers reacted positively at PS4 specs, and majority of them praised the 8GB GDDR5 RAM of the system.

so less stress on gpu more grahics more Gflops?

Whiteknight19

It basically says, AMD GCN can be use like multi-core X86-64 CPU (AMD GCN itself includes AMD's X86 IP).

AMD designed it's own Intel Larrabee type solution without completing the full X86 compatibility i.e. there's no need to waste transistors on full X86 legacy.

Statements from AMD

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fusion-hsa-opencl-history,3262-6.html

"That effort resulted in a couple of things," adds Macri. "One, we ended up with the best architecture out there thats unifying scalar and vector compute. It blows away what [Intel] did with Larrabee. The Nvidia guys have only attacked part of the problem, because they only have the IP portfolio to attack part of the problem. What theyve done isnt bad. Its actually good for having one hand tied behind their back. But with [Fusion], we had the full IP capability, and it truly is the first unified architecture, top to bottom."

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fusion-hsa-opencl-history,3262-8.html

In addition to unified memory, AMD notes that HSA establishes cache coherency between the CPU and GPU, eliminating the need to do a DMA flush every time the programmer wants to move data between the CPU and GPU. The GPU is also now allowed to reference pageable memory, so the entire virtual memory space is available. Not least of all, HSA adds context switching, enabling quality of service. With these features in hardware, an HSA platform becomes very similar in programming style to that of a CPU.