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Sony Patent May Kill Second Hand Market
- Jan 4, 2013 9:35 am GMT
[QUOTE="c_rake"]
[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]
I recently thought about this too. I thought about if it's possible for them, if they ever go offline to patch their system in that way that you won't require the DD Service anymore?
I mean, for example, with Steam it can't be THAT hard, considering all your game data is on your system anyways and it already has an Offline Mode, all it would require is an "Offline Forever" Mode patch or so. Of course you can't buy new games, neither patch your old and better make backups of them, but I think the effect isn't as hars as you'd believe. I really hope that every DD Service at least considers this thought.
Though, the most unrealistic dream solution would be: You can mail them and require the original Game CD of every game you bought. Yeah I know, not likely, but man that would be awesome ^^[/QUOTE]
Valve's gone on record to say they've got a plan to unlock all purchased games from the service should Steam ever close. Only makes sense when you consider how popular a retailer they've become.
[/QUOTE]
Well they also said half life episode 3 would be out shortly after the second one.
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- Jan 4, 2013 9:40 am GMT
[QUOTE="wiouds"]Well they also said half life episode 3 would be out shortly after the second one.[/QUOTE]
Your point being...?
What Valve does as a development studio and a retailer are very different things. They're obviously very slow on the former, but they've so far been good on delivering whatever new features they announce for Steam.
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- Jan 4, 2013 9:57 am GMT
[QUOTE="capaho"]
Typical Sony, typical Japanese management thinking. Restricted competition, protected markets, it's the Japanese way.
[/QUOTE]
You sure like to talk about Japanese culture as if you're an expert. Sadly, you're almost always wrong.
The PS3 was one of the most open consoles of its time. It was devoid of many restrictions that are prevalant among all console makers, Japanese or Western.
- No Region Locking - Want to import a cheaper version of the Matrix trilogy, go right ahead. Want to import Demon Souls which was originally never going to get released in the U.S, sure, go right ahead.
- Use any bluetooth headset instead of the expensive official one like MS forces everyone to use.
- Use any laptop HDD instead of the expensive official one like MS forces everyone to use.
- Use any webcam instead of the expensive offical one like MS forces everyone to use.
- Use any keyboard and mouse.
They have become more restrictive in recent years, but they have still released a very open PS Vita.
No console maker/publisher likes piracy or second hand gamesales. EA was the one who introduced the online pass. Ubisoft has long been notorious about always online DRM. Saying Sony's reason for combating used game sales is due to some Japanese way of thinking is bullsh*t.
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- Jan 4, 2013 10:07 am GMT
[QUOTE="c_rake"]
[QUOTE="wiouds"]Well they also said half life episode 3 would be out shortly after the second one.[/QUOTE]
Your point being...?
What Valve does as a development studio and a retailer are very different things. They're obviously very slow on the former, but they've so far been good on delivering whatever new features they announce for Steam.
[/QUOTE]
That does not change the fact that they said something that did not happen. So their statements about what happen when steam shuts down not have as much strength.
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- Jan 4, 2013 10:15 am GMT
For all those saying that the used games market hurts developers, thats not clear actually. This is question of economics and there needs to be some empirical evidence before getting to a conclusion. If the used games market is killed then it should be remembered that the demand for new games will definitely go down. If I know that when I buy a $60 game I can sell it for $30, then I will buy it as though the cost of the game on me will be just $30. If tomorrow the used games market is killed and I know I can not sell the game then I will have to see whether the game is worth $60 to me. For many people games are not worth $60 and indeed the demand for games will definitely go down. What Sony or any other company should consider is whether revenues are higher or lower with or without this technology.
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- Jan 4, 2013 11:19 am GMT
[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]
The real question here is what is the most effective way to scream it at them? With stuff like this slowly it really starts to become ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Easy. If you've got a problem with their practices, then don't buy from them. If you've got the time, send them a brief letter explaining why you no longer buy from them. The letter's just a bonus though, the big thing is to just stop giving them money. If this turns off enough people, and if they really do just stop buying, then companies stop doing these kinds of things.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Jan 4, 2013 12:56 pm GMT
>Currently Playing: Metro: Last Light, System Shock 2
>Most Wanted: Half-Life 3!!!, Saints Row IV, Batman: Arkham Origins, Splinter Cell: Blacklist, Civ V: Brave New World
>My Rig: i7 3770K @ 4.4Ghz - Asus GeForce GTX Titan - 16GB DDR3 - Dell U2713HM
I'm not a fan of pre-owned games anyway so it doesn't really bother me either way... We need financially healthy developers.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Jan 4, 2013 2:37 pm GMT
My gaming blog and a different kind of videogame review. "No, no, no. Amateur! Lie down before you hurt yourself..." -- Timon
El ZoRRo vs Omega Prime! Witness the epic battle yourself! Who was right? Lord only knows(well, Him and anyone who finished the ninth grade...)[QUOTE="hrt_rulz01"]I'm not a fan of pre-owned games anyway so it doesn't really bother me either way... We need financially healthy developers.[/QUOTE] This has nothing to do with the developers. Everyone likes to cry about the poor, poor devs, but in reality, it's the publishers who stand to lose. Dev's get paid for the work. Publishers get paid by the sale. I personally feel that our rights as consumers need to be protected regardless of whether or not we choose to exercise them. You don't buy used? Fine. But what happens if you find yourself in a bind and you need to raise money fast? Can't sell those games gathering dust- not on ebay, craigslist or even an old fashioned garage sale.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Jan 4, 2013 2:57 pm GMT
I want a Wafflebot!
Although this is only a patent and not a reality, it gives me less expectations of the next gen being anything worthwhile investing in. I typically buy games new, but it's the principal of this being implemented that concerns me. I doubt Sony is that dumb, but if they are, I'll take my business elsewhere.
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- Jan 4, 2013 3:14 pm GMT
[QUOTE="SciFiCat"][QUOTE="c_rake"]
Before the launch of the PS3, there was talk of Sony implementing a sort of licensing system to lock out used games. I think it was through a patent that the idea was discovered. Obviously it never happened, though. I imagine the same will apply here. Patents get made all the time. Just because a patent exists doesn't necessarily mean it's something that is under development.
[/QUOTE] Still, the fact that this kind of tech is being talked about and patented is worrisome to say the least. It is as if console manufacturers are trying to test how much they can control the player's ability to dictate what to do with the games they pay for and how the consumer can play them more and more each time before this one draws the a line in the sand and says "Enough!"[/QUOTE]The thing I find truly frightening is not the fact that these companies patent them types of technologies or try to use them, but moreso that there are those out there who approach it with utter apathy. I've seen two posters in here so far with a "meh" attitude. Sure, perhaps they always buy new so it won't affect them, but that is not the point. They support such a thing, and eventually another technology that will further take away our rights as consumers will come along, and it will probably be one that they WILL care about. But they, through their support and short-sightedness, are the ones that supported it and made it possible.
"Enough" has been a line that has long ago since passed. DRM which couldn't get any worse (*cough cough* Diablo III) has been used that has literally broken the game on release and has gimped it even today, and STILL people defend it. I don't see how anyone in their right mind could ever defend that fiasco after what happened (and the restrictions still imposed). Yet here we are, with the upcoming Simcity 3 using the same damn DRM. "Enough" will never be reached, because there will always be morons out there who don't care.
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- Jan 5, 2013 6:20 am GMT
Now Playing: Persona 3 Portable (PSP), Motorstorm: Arctic Edge (PSP)
Recently Completed: Batman Arkham Asylum, Metal Gear Solid 4, Valkyria Chronicles- Selvaria's Missions
[QUOTE="c_rake"][QUOTE="Justforvisit"]
I recently thought about this too. I thought about if it's possible for them, if they ever go offline to patch their system in that way that you won't require the DD Service anymore?
I mean, for example, with Steam it can't be THAT hard, considering all your game data is on your system anyways and it already has an Offline Mode, all it would require is an "Offline Forever" Mode patch or so. Of course you can't buy new games, neither patch your old and better make backups of them, but I think the effect isn't as hars as you'd believe. I really hope that every DD Service at least considers this thought.
Though, the most unrealistic dream solution would be: You can mail them and require the original Game CD of every game you bought. Yeah I know, not likely, but man that would be awesome ^^[/QUOTE]
Valve's gone on record to say they've got a plan to unlock all purchased games from the service should Steam ever close. Only makes sense when you consider how popular a retailer they've become.
[/QUOTE] Lies, and they know it. If Valve ever went bankrupt, the creditors run the show, not Valve. That's beyond the fact that if Steam really was going out of business, some other DD (Amazon, EA, etc) would probably buy it for the userbase/technology involved.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Jan 5, 2013 3:50 pm GMT
[QUOTE="LongZhiZi"][QUOTE="c_rake"]
[QUOTE="Justforvisit"]
I recently thought about this too. I thought about if it's possible for them, if they ever go offline to patch their system in that way that you won't require the DD Service anymore?
I mean, for example, with Steam it can't be THAT hard, considering all your game data is on your system anyways and it already has an Offline Mode, all it would require is an "Offline Forever" Mode patch or so. Of course you can't buy new games, neither patch your old and better make backups of them, but I think the effect isn't as hars as you'd believe. I really hope that every DD Service at least considers this thought.
Though, the most unrealistic dream solution would be: You can mail them and require the original Game CD of every game you bought. Yeah I know, not likely, but man that would be awesome ^^[/QUOTE]
Valve's gone on record to say they've got a plan to unlock all purchased games from the service should Steam ever close. Only makes sense when you consider how popular a retailer they've become.
[/QUOTE] Lies, and they know it. If Valve ever went bankrupt, the creditors run the show, not Valve. That's beyond the fact that if Steam really was going out of business, some other DD (Amazon, EA, etc) would probably buy it for the userbase/technology involved.[/QUOTE]
If it ever came to Steam shutting down and everyone's games being rendered useless, there would be litigation that would skyrocket into orbit.
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- Jan 5, 2013 5:19 pm GMT
[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]
[QUOTE="LongZhiZi"][QUOTE="c_rake"]
Valve's gone on record to say they've got a plan to unlock all purchased games from the service should Steam ever close. Only makes sense when you consider how popular a retailer they've become.
[/QUOTE] Lies, and they know it. If Valve ever went bankrupt, the creditors run the show, not Valve. That's beyond the fact that if Steam really was going out of business, some other DD (Amazon, EA, etc) would probably buy it for the userbase/technology involved.[/QUOTE]
If it ever came to Steam shutting down and everyone's games being rendered useless, there would be litigation that would skyrocket into orbit.
[/QUOTE]
If Steam is a service then there it is legal refuse to provide that service.
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- Jan 5, 2013 5:44 pm GMT
[QUOTE="wiouds"]
[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]
[QUOTE="LongZhiZi"] Lies, and they know it. If Valve ever went bankrupt, the creditors run the show, not Valve. That's beyond the fact that if Steam really was going out of business, some other DD (Amazon, EA, etc) would probably buy it for the userbase/technology involved.[/QUOTE]
If it ever came to Steam shutting down and everyone's games being rendered useless, there would be litigation that would skyrocket into orbit.
[/QUOTE]
If Steam is a service then there it is legal refuse to provide that service.
[/QUOTE]
What about consumer rights? When someone pays for something, that comes with certain rights.
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- Jan 5, 2013 6:17 pm GMT
[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]
[QUOTE="wiouds"]
[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]
If it ever came to Steam shutting down and everyone's games being rendered useless, there would be litigation that would skyrocket into orbit.
[/QUOTE]
If Steam is a service then there it is legal refuse to provide that service.
[/QUOTE]
What about consumer rights? When someone pays for something, that comes with certain rights.
[/QUOTE]
It depend on what you are paying for. If you are paying for a product then they can keep it, but if you are pay for a service then they can stop the service at any time. I believe that Stream is a service.
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- Jan 5, 2013 7:22 pm GMT
I think this would hurt Sony's marketability more than anything else. Then again, that's assuming Microsoft and Nintendo didn't do the same thing themselves with their games.
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- Jan 5, 2013 8:24 pm GMT
[QUOTE="wiouds"]
It depends on what you are paying for. If you are paying for a product then they can keep it, but if you are pay for a service then they can stop the service at any time. I believe that Stream is a service.
[/QUOTE]
So would ownership cease to exist in the digital age? The way I see it, Steam is a service to a product. If it were purely a service, I would think we'd be paying a flat rate per month to be able to access all the games we wish (similar to cable). But those games are products by and of themselves, developed and published by various companies. Valve is simply the middleman to being able to reach them, and I would think as our money goes not only to Valve but also to those various publishers and developers, that Valve's not in any position to say whether we are entitled to something we have paid for.
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- Jan 5, 2013 9:14 pm GMT
[QUOTE="MirkoS77"]
[QUOTE="wiouds"]
It depends on what you are paying for. If you are paying for a product then they can keep it, but if you are pay for a service then they can stop the service at any time. I believe that Stream is a service.
[/QUOTE]
So would ownership cease to exist in the digital age? The way I see it, Steam is a service to a product. If it were purely a service, I would think we'd be paying a flat rate per month to be able to access all the games we wish (similar to cable). But those games are products by and of themselves, developed and published by various companies. Valve is simply the middleman to being able to reach them, and I would think as our money goes not only to Valve but also to those various publishers and developers, that Valve's not in any position to say whether we are entitled to something we have paid for.
[/QUOTE]
Stream does not sell the product. They sell the right to use stream to get access to the game.
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- Jan 5, 2013 9:21 pm GMT
Now Playing: Persona 3 Portable (PSP), Motorstorm: Arctic Edge (PSP)
Recently Completed: Batman Arkham Asylum, Metal Gear Solid 4, Valkyria Chronicles- Selvaria's Missions
[QUOTE="MirkoS77"][QUOTE="wiouds"]
It depends on what you are paying for. If you are paying for a product then they can keep it, but if you are pay for a service then they can stop the service at any time. I believe that Stream is a service.
[/QUOTE]
So would ownership cease to exist in the digital age? The way I see it, Steam is a service to a product. If it were purely a service, I would think we'd be paying a flat rate per month to be able to access all the games we wish (similar to cable). But those games are products by and of themselves, developed and published by various companies. Valve is simply the middleman to being able to reach them, and I would think as our money goes not only to Valve but also to those various publishers and developers, that Valve's not in any position to say whether we are entitled to something we have paid for.
[/QUOTE] Read Steam's ToS. It clearly says you're a subscriber who 'subscribes' to the games, as if they were different TV channels. If your cable company goes out of business, they're under no obligation to provide previously watched episodes. This why I'm appalled when I see PC gamers demanding everything be linked to Steam. I don't want it to be this way, and I generally try to buy my games elsewhere, but it is the current situation.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Jan 5, 2013 9:32 pm GMT
[QUOTE="LongZhiZi"][QUOTE="MirkoS77"]
[QUOTE="wiouds"]
It depends on what you are paying for. If you are paying for a product then they can keep it, but if you are pay for a service then they can stop the service at any time. I believe that Stream is a service.
[/QUOTE]
So would ownership cease to exist in the digital age? The way I see it, Steam is a service to a product. If it were purely a service, I would think we'd be paying a flat rate per month to be able to access all the games we wish (similar to cable). But those games are products by and of themselves, developed and published by various companies. Valve is simply the middleman to being able to reach them, and I would think as our money goes not only to Valve but also to those various publishers and developers, that Valve's not in any position to say whether we are entitled to something we have paid for.
[/QUOTE] Read Steam's ToS. It clearly says you're a subscriber who 'subscribes' to the games, as if they were different TV channels. If your cable company goes out of business, they're under no obligation to provide previously watched episodes. This why I'm appalled when I see PC gamers demanding everything be linked to Steam. I don't want it to be this way, and I generally try to buy my games elsewhere, but it is the current situation.[/QUOTE]
Indeed. The only way I really have any peace of mind from digital purchases is when they are DRM free, like GOG games.
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