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Dyad Creator Calls Linear Stories in Games Worthless, Mass Effect Horrible
- Nov 30, 2012 5:03 pm GMT
|| AMD A8-4500M @ 1.9 GHz || AMD Radeon HD 7460G || 8 GB DDR3 || 750 GB HDD ||
The Atheism Union || last.fm || Try avast! for free![QUOTE="Jolt_counter119"][...] because of the gigantic following it has received I refuse to believe the story is complete trash.[/QUOTE] Lots of people like Twilight.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:03 pm GMTZeviander wrote:inb4 "we just don't get it" *applause* for the guy though. Saying sh!t most developers would be scared to say.
Haven't seen him in a while actually
And yeah he's only speaking his mind and the truth. Some people are too afraid to speak up sometimes but props to this guy.
[QUOTE="Zeviander"]inb4 "we just don't get it" *applause* for the guy though. Saying sh!t most developers would be scared to say.[/QUOTE]
Haven't seen him in a while actually :P
And yeah he's only speaking his mind and the truth. Some people are too afraid to speak up sometimes but props to this guy.
- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:04 pm GMT[QUOTE="enterawesome"]The lore in Mass Effect is not horrible. It simply isn't. Say what you will about issues regarding choice and consequence, but the fiction is massively impressive and not just as a game.[/QUOTE] Mass Effect has a nerd-fantasy race of hot blue lesbians that want to f*ck everything else in the galaxy. /argument
- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:05 pm GMT
[QUOTE="Jolt_counter119"]
[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="Jolt_counter119"][...] just saying Mass Effect's story sucks doesn't make it fact [...][/QUOTE] But it does suck when compared to any other form of storytelling media. And even as a game it doesn't do anything special. Just very run-of-the-mill.[/QUOTE]
And I may well agree with you, didn't play Mass Effect, and I generally don't enjoy most sci fi. But it's still subjective and because of the gigantic following it has received I refuse to believe the story is complete trash.
[/QUOTE]
That's a horrible basis to judge quality on.
- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:05 pm GMT[QUOTE="Jolt_counter119"]
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="Jolt_counter119"]
And that makes it bad how???
[/QUOTE] Because you're pursuing something that can't actually do what it's supposed to?[/QUOTE]
So? How does that make the story bad?
[/QUOTE] Because it can't ever actually accomplish what it sets out to accomplish?- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:06 pm GMTBut the Elcor...DarkLink77 wrote:enterawesome wrote:The lore in Mass Effect is not horrible. It simply isn't. Say what you will about issues regarding choice and consequence, but the fiction is massively impressive and not just as a game.
Mass Effect has a nerd-fantasy race of hot blue lesbians that want to f*ck everything else in the galaxy.
/argument
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="enterawesome"]The lore in Mass Effect is not horrible. It simply isn't. Say what you will about issues regarding choice and consequence, but the fiction is massively impressive and not just as a game.[/QUOTE] Mass Effect has a nerd-fantasy race of hot blue lesbians that want to f*ck everything else in the galaxy. /argument[/QUOTE] But the Elcor... :(- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:07 pm GMT
|| AMD A8-4500M @ 1.9 GHz || AMD Radeon HD 7460G || 8 GB DDR3 || 750 GB HDD ||
The Atheism Union || last.fm || Try avast! for free![QUOTE="enterawesome"]The lore in Mass Effect is not horrible. It simply isn't. Say what you will about issues regarding choice and consequence, but the fiction is massively impressive and not just as a game.[/QUOTE] Instead of space magic (the Force) and trilithium, it's "element zero". Most of the lore isn't original, just well-delivered.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:08 pm GMTenterawesome wrote:But the Elcor...DarkLink77 wrote:enterawesome wrote:The lore in Mass Effect is not horrible. It simply isn't. Say what you will about issues regarding choice and consequence, but the fiction is massively impressive and not just as a game.
Mass Effect has a nerd-fantasy race of hot blue lesbians that want to f*ck everything else in the galaxy.
/argument
Okay, Elcor are cool, I'll give you that one.
But being cool in Mass Effect means you get relegated to a supporting role and get to do f*ck all for the entire series.[QUOTE="enterawesome"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="enterawesome"]The lore in Mass Effect is not horrible. It simply isn't. Say what you will about issues regarding choice and consequence, but the fiction is massively impressive and not just as a game.[/QUOTE] Mass Effect has a nerd-fantasy race of hot blue lesbians that want to f*ck everything else in the galaxy. /argument[/QUOTE] But the Elcor... :([/QUOTE] Okay, Elcor are cool, I'll give you that one. But being cool in Mass Effect means you get relegated to a supporting role and get to do f*ck all for the entire series.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:08 pm GMT[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="enterawesome"]The lore in Mass Effect is not horrible. It simply isn't. Say what you will about issues regarding choice and consequence, but the fiction is massively impressive and not just as a game.[/QUOTE] Instead of space magic (the Force) and trilithium, it's "element zero". Most of the lore isn't original, just well-delivered.[/QUOTE] But Mass Effect has space magic, too!
- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:10 pm GMT
Jesus I got blazed on that point. I still don't agree that the story sucks because of technical reasons though. If you want to bash a story, then bash the story, not because you're not given as much choice as it implies. I just think that bashing an entire way of telling a story is stupid.
- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:11 pm GMTDarkLink77 wrote:Okay, Elcor are cool, I'll give you that one. But being cool in Mass Effect means you get relegated to a supporting role and get to do f*ck all for the entire series.enterawesome wrote:But the Elcor...DarkLink77 wrote:Mass Effect has a nerd-fantasy race of hot blue lesbians that want to f*ck everything else in the galaxy. /argument
Example: Marauder Shields
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="enterawesome"][QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Mass Effect has a nerd-fantasy race of hot blue lesbians that want to f*ck everything else in the galaxy. /argument[/QUOTE] But the Elcor... :([/QUOTE] Okay, Elcor are cool, I'll give you that one. But being cool in Mass Effect means you get relegated to a supporting role and get to do f*ck all for the entire series.[/QUOTE]
Example: Marauder Shields
- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:11 pm GMT
|| AMD A8-4500M @ 1.9 GHz || AMD Radeon HD 7460G || 8 GB DDR3 || 750 GB HDD ||
The Atheism Union || last.fm || Try avast! for free![QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="enterawesome"]The lore in Mass Effect is not horrible. It simply isn't. Say what you will about issues regarding choice and consequence, but the fiction is massively impressive and not just as a game.[/QUOTE] Instead of space magic (the Force) and trilithium, it's "element zero". Most of the lore isn't original, just well-delivered.[/QUOTE] Then again, forcing people to read/listen to an in-game encyclopedia, may not be as good a method as I originally thought.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:12 pm GMT----
I am power made flesh. Feel how weak you truly are.I'm puzzled as to the use the word linear here. I wouldn't call games that attempt some choice elements linear. Linear to me is more what straight story games go with, where there is no story impact to choices at all. Oh well, whatever. As to his argument that you can't pull of real choices in games, I disagree. You can't pull off infinite choice at least not until we get games that are simulations rather than discrete events which is WAYYYY off, but you can still pull off meaningful limited choices in games.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:12 pm GMT
|| AMD A8-4500M @ 1.9 GHz || AMD Radeon HD 7460G || 8 GB DDR3 || 750 GB HDD ||
The Atheism Union || last.fm || Try avast! for free![QUOTE="Jolt_counter119"]I just think that bashing an entire way of telling a story is stupid.[/QUOTE] Why? These are games, not books or movies.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:13 pm GMTZeviander wrote:Zeviander wrote:enterawesome wrote:The lore in Mass Effect is not horrible. It simply isn't. Say what you will about issues regarding choice and consequence, but the fiction is massively impressive and not just as a game.
Instead of space magic (the Force) and trilithium, it's "element zero". Most of the lore isn't original, just well-delivered.
Then again, forcing people to read/listen to an in-game encyclopedia, may not be as good a method as I originally thought.
True that. FFXIII got blasted for the same thing a lot of places, if I remember correctly.[QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="Zeviander"][QUOTE="enterawesome"]The lore in Mass Effect is not horrible. It simply isn't. Say what you will about issues regarding choice and consequence, but the fiction is massively impressive and not just as a game.[/QUOTE] Instead of space magic (the Force) and trilithium, it's "element zero". Most of the lore isn't original, just well-delivered.[/QUOTE] Then again, forcing people to read/listen to an in-game encyclopedia, may not be as good a method as I originally thought.[/QUOTE] :lol: True that. FFXIII got blasted for the same thing a lot of places, if I remember correctly.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:13 pm GMT
He's wrong. Like, there's no other way to put it: the fact you can't create these infinitely variable storylines doesn't change the fact that a relatively linear story with a sprinkling of player choice can still be pretty damn emotionally affecting. For all the ME series' failings and "it's only good for a game" qualifiers, just that sliver of player agency is enough to let you build some pretty impressive connections to the characters (which is all the more impressive, considering they ain't exactly Bloom and Raskolnikov) in a way a purely linear story never could.
That said, he does have a point about devs working within the limits of the medium. The gaming community is so concerned with everything fitting within it's nice, neat little genre trope that it f*cks everything up: 3-5 hours worth of story has to be stretched into 30-50 hours worth of game, "serious" story-driven games invariably have to have "deep" RPG mechanics, it's better to have pointless "shades of gray" moral choices than meaningful "saint/cartoon villain"-level ones, all your Big Epic Story Moments have to be done in cutscene for some bizarre reason, etc. While he's wrong to write off traditional stories in gaming in general, there's definitely something to be said for getting rid of our current definition of traditional stories in gaming.
P.S: Granted I'm not a big sci-fi nerd or anything, but I really don't get the hate for the ME universe. Like, sure, it isn't the most exciting or creative universe out there, but it's functional and generally interesting, or at the very least inoffensive. And while I don't want to accuse everyone who hates on it of doing it for the false sense of smug superiority that comes with hating on anything that's popular, well, it sure seems like people are hating on it for thefalse sense of smug superiority that comes with hating on anything that's popular.
- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:14 pm GMT
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="Jolt_counter119"]
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"] Because you're pursuing something that can't actually do what it's supposed to?[/QUOTE]
So? How does that make the story bad?
[/QUOTE] Because it can't ever actually accomplish what it sets out to accomplish?[/QUOTE]
And who are you to say what they are trying to accomplish. They know the limitations, hell a lot better than we do. They are accomplishing what they accomplish which is a story with your actions guiding the way. On the question when the inteviewer asks what he thought on the missions that are very different depending on how you play, all he did was call it filler and useless.
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- Nov 30, 2012 5:15 pm GMT
[QUOTE="Jolt_counter119"]
Jesus I got blazed on that point. I still don't agree that the story sucks because of technical reasons though. If you want to bash a story, then bash the story, not because you're not given as much choice as it implies. I just think that bashing an entire way of telling a story is stupid.
[/QUOTE]
It gets praised because it spans 3 games and no other game has really done that to that level before. And because there is so much of it people tend to just automatically think it's good because of these factors. But most of Mass Effect is just time wasting, I mean why the hell do you go on a pokemon quest of sorts to try and catch 'em all (your squadmates) when there is a huge universe wide extinction threat coming. It makes no sense. Like the guy said "it's busy work" to keep the game going, they could have crammed all the ME story into one game when it comes down to it. That's why i think ME1 has the best story of the 3. it has a beginning with introductions to everything, a middle (the problem you face) and an end where you defeat Sovereign. It felt complete and padded just enough, but not to the levels of filler added in ME2.
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- Nov 30, 2012 5:15 pm GMTseanmcloughlin wrote:DarkLink77 wrote:Okay, Elcor are cool, I'll give you that one. But being cool in Mass Effect means you get relegated to a supporting role and get to do f*ck all for the entire series.enterawesome wrote:But the Elcor...
Example: Marauder Shields
Never forget.
[QUOTE="seanmcloughlin"]
[QUOTE="DarkLink77"][QUOTE="enterawesome"] But the Elcor... :([/QUOTE] Okay, Elcor are cool, I'll give you that one. But being cool in Mass Effect means you get relegated to a supporting role and get to do f*ck all for the entire series.[/QUOTE]
Example: Marauder Shields
[/QUOTE]
Never forget.
- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 30, 2012 5:16 pm GMT
He sounds like a jerk.
I mean, it just sounds like elitist "wow those guys are popular but I think they suck" BS to me. I can understand not liking ME, but I think it's incredibly disrespectful to Bioware and their work, and given the insane amount of praise and fans I'd say he's totally in the wrong.
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