- Nov 18, 2012 1:48 pm GMT
[QUOTE="Cloud_Insurance"]
typical sourh sider, struggles with reading comprehension.
The Tigers made the playoffs because of their strong pitching. Cabrera did not carry them to the playoffs. He was consistent throughout the year, it was their pitching that allowed them to pass the White Sox.
Every game is worth the same in the standings. Trout fading does not offset the huge defensive gap that exists between him and Cabrera. Trout does more to help his team win and put his team in a better position to win.
Cabrera voters argument involves the triple crown and making the postseason. Neither of those things should factor into the MVP vote. Dawson correctly won an MVP awawrd on a last place team. He was the best player that year and deserves that recognition.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think I am struggling with understanding anything. You are suggesting that the reason the Tigers made the playoffs was because of their pitching rotation. I am not arguing that those 5 people were more important than Cabrera. It is ridiculous to compare the value of the whole pitching rotation to one player. Cabrera did carry his team. In the final 2 months (and the three games in October), he reached base every single game except for 7. He drove in an RBI in over half of those games. He was the offense all year long and got better as the season went on. To say he didn't help them win their division (last post) is laughable and adds up to about zero credibility.
When players put up the numbers is important. Every game may count the same, but playing 2/3 as good as he did during the month of June and July directly resulted in the Angels inability to make the playoffs.
Can you prove the voters chose Cabrera simply because he won the Triple Crown? Making the postseason and playing your best ball down the stretch is important and should factor in. Voters shouldn't open ESPN and scroll through a player's WAR and hand them the trophy based on that. I'm glad 22 of the 28 writers didn't do that.
Defense will never equate to the same as offense in any position on baseball. That is why a defensive specialist at SS makes about $3M while a good DH can can get $15M. The Tigers were one of the worst defensive teams in baseball this year...they made it to the WS. The Seattle Mariners? One of the best.
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- Nov 19, 2012 12:13 pm GMT
I'm late, but I like the Cabrera signing. Surprised he didn't sign a 1 year deal and try and prove himself. Fill our LF hole instantly.
And the Jays-Marlins trade is offically approved: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/blue-jays-marlins-complete-blockbuster-trade.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 19, 2012 1:33 pm GMT
[QUOTE="JohnBean42"]
I'm late, but I like the Cabrera signing. Surprised he didn't sign a 1 year deal and try and prove himself. Fill our LF hole instantly.
And the Jays-Marlins trade is offically approved: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/blue-jays-marlins-complete-blockbuster-trade.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter[/QUOTE]
I think he jumped at the deal. Especially after his PED suspension. How many teams were going to offer him a multi year deal? If he can best his career average, .284*, and play solid defense, it's a steal of a deal.
The Jays line up looks good on paper,
SS Jose Reyes
3B Brett Lawrie
LF Melky Cabrera
RF Jose Bautista
DH Edwin Encarnacion
1B Adam Lind
CF Colby Rasmus
C J.P. Arencibia
2B Maicer Izturis-
1-5 is solid, after that, it's average. They should do well if, and it's a big if, they can keep their staff healthy. Their arms have been falling off lately. Any answers to why that is? AL East is going to be a pretty good division this season.
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- Nov 19, 2012 1:42 pm GMT
The Marlins Front Office is delusional. They really believe the players they got back from Toronto are championship caliber and really believe the team is better now. I realize they can't say they suck, but to flat out lie? Ridiculous. Although I shouldn't be surprised.
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- Nov 19, 2012 2:15 pm GMT[QUOTE="yokofox33"]
The Marlins Front Office is delusional. They really believe the players they got back from Toronto are championship caliber and really believe the team is better now. I realize they can't say they suck, but to flat out lie? Ridiculous. Although I shouldn't be surprised.
[/QUOTE] The best guys you got in the deal are years away. Escobar is alright, and Hech has the chance to be great on D..but no bat. I agree, can't believe he thinks that.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 19, 2012 2:22 pm GMT
[QUOTE="Namgis"]
[QUOTE="JohnBean42"]
I'm late, but I like the Cabrera signing. Surprised he didn't sign a 1 year deal and try and prove himself. Fill our LF hole instantly.
And the Jays-Marlins trade is offically approved: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/11/blue-jays-marlins-complete-blockbuster-trade.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter[/QUOTE]
I think he jumped at the deal. Especially after his PED suspension. How many teams were going to offer him a multi year deal? If he can best his career average, .284*, and play solid defense, it's a steal of a deal.
The Jays line up looks good on paper,
SS Jose Reyes
3B Brett Lawrie
LF Melky Cabrera
RF Jose Bautista
DH Edwin Encarnacion
1B Adam Lind
CF Colby Rasmus
C J.P. Arencibia
2B Maicer Izturis-
1-5 is solid, after that, it's average. They should do well if, and it's a big if, they can keep their staff healthy. Their arms have been falling off lately. Any answers to why that is? AL East is going to be a pretty good division this season.
[/QUOTE]
I don't think that'll be our opening day lineup, even if the players are the same. Bautista still 3, EE still 4..Melky either 2 or 5, and if he's 5, Bonifacio/Izturis will be 2nd.
But I don't think JPA will be here. He'll be moved for either another, better 2B or 1B/DH, or a starter. I know Texas is interested, and Andus/Kinsler have been mentioned. Also, if they get a 1B/DH, Lind might be DFA'd.
I agree the bottom 4 is average as you have it. Not a lot of them get on base a lot, but have power. But if the guys infront of them are racking up the home runs, they aren't as...useful. Which is why a guy like Lawrie could hit 6th, and get on base for Rasmus and JPA. Lawrie and Rasmus hit well together when they were 1-2, may it'll carry over.
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- Nov 19, 2012 4:00 pm GMT
[QUOTE="JohnBean42"]
I don't think that'll be our opening day lineup, even if the players are the same. Bautista still 3, EE still 4..Melky either 2 or 5, and if he's 5, Bonifacio/Izturis will be 2nd.
But I don't think JPA will be here. He'll be moved for either another, better 2B or 1B/DH, or a starter. I know Texas is interested, and Andus/Kinsler have been mentioned. Also, if they get a 1B/DH, Lind might be DFA'd.
I agree the bottom 4 is average as you have it. Not a lot of them get on base a lot, but have power. But if the guys infront of them are racking up the home runs, they aren't as...useful. Which is why a guy like Lawrie could hit 6th, and get on base for Rasmus and JPA. Lawrie and Rasmus hit well together when they were 1-2, may it'll carry over.
[/QUOTE]
That was just the projected lineup on ESPN I copy and pasted. I agree that JPA is most likely going to be moved. But who do they have that's ready for the Show? I also believe that they should try and move Rasmus. He is good defensively, but at the plate, like you said, doesn't get on base as much as he should. He's got great speed but is trying to be a power guy. Too much talk coming from his pop, just like in STL. If they could deal JPA straight up for Kinsler, or another multi player swap(Rasmus) and get both him and Andrus, look out MLB.
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- Nov 19, 2012 4:52 pm GMT
[QUOTE="Namgis"]
[QUOTE="JohnBean42"]
I don't think that'll be our opening day lineup, even if the players are the same. Bautista still 3, EE still 4..Melky either 2 or 5, and if he's 5, Bonifacio/Izturis will be 2nd.
But I don't think JPA will be here. He'll be moved for either another, better 2B or 1B/DH, or a starter. I know Texas is interested, and Andus/Kinsler have been mentioned. Also, if they get a 1B/DH, Lind might be DFA'd.
I agree the bottom 4 is average as you have it. Not a lot of them get on base a lot, but have power. But if the guys infront of them are racking up the home runs, they aren't as...useful. Which is why a guy like Lawrie could hit 6th, and get on base for Rasmus and JPA. Lawrie and Rasmus hit well together when they were 1-2, may it'll carry over.
[/QUOTE]
That was just the projected lineup on ESPN I copy and pasted. I agree that JPA is most likely going to be moved. But who do they have that's ready for the Show? I also believe that they should try and move Rasmus. He is good defensively, but at the plate, like you said, doesn't get on base as much as he should. He's got great speed but is trying to be a power guy. Too much talk coming from his pop, just like in STL. If they could deal JPA straight up for Kinsler, or another multi player swap(Rasmus) and get both him and Andrus, look out MLB.
[/QUOTE] Travis d'Arneud is the highest ranked catcher in baseball and was ranked 11 on MLB.com. He missed the last half of the year with a torn PCL, so I expect he wouldn't be up for at least a month or two, but he's ready. My concern with trading him and/or Rasmus is that if this is the year we're "going for it", can we really go into it with an unproven rookie behind the plate with a mediocre backup, and a CF with almost no experience in Gose? Unless we sign someone that is.
I don't know, regardless of how highly touted he is, d'Arnaud is he's still unproven when it comes to the bigs, and we've seen what JPA can do, which is not getting on base a lot, but 20+ HR and 80+ RBI. But everything about d'Arneud to this point in AAA and AA is better than what JPA did.
And Gose...he's fast and plays good D most of the time, but I'd much prefer Rasmus. Hopefully the one from April-June, not the last half.
It's still November, and we've done all this without a manager. Once we have him, and after these big moves AA will focus even more on trades and maybe a FA or 2...maybe another pitcher like Sanchez or Jackson is the payroll is even higher. I still want another one.
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- Nov 19, 2012 5:17 pm GMTSince they seem to have opened up the vault and are looking at right now, they should have the attention of the entire league. If they can convince a FA catcher to sign up, ie, Napoli, Martin or Pierzynski, they could afford to keep d'A on as a backup with regular games. 30-40. As AJ is in his twilight and Martin and Napoli have a couple good years left in them, they could allow the kid to get his toes wet without all the pressure that comes with starting in the bigs. But who wants to play that role? It would be a good story to bring Martin, a 'hometown kid', in to end his career. NY may suit him though.JohnBean42 wrote:
Travis d'Arneud is the highest ranked catcher in baseball and was ranked 11 on MLB.com. He missed the last half of the year with a torn PCL, so I expect he wouldn't be up for at least a month or two, but he's ready. My concern with trading him and/or Rasmus is that if this is the year we're "going for it", can we really go into it with an unproven rookie behind the plate with a mediocre backup, and a CF with almost no experience in Gose? Unless we sign someone that is.
I don't know, regardless of how highly touted he is, d'Arnaud is he's still unproven when it comes to the bigs, and we've seen what JPA can do, which is not getting on base a lot, but 20+ HR and 80+ RBI. But everything about d'Arneud to this point in AAA and AA is better than what JPA did.
And Gose...he's fast and plays good D most of the time, but I'd much prefer Rasmus. Hopefully the one from April-June, not the last half.
It's still November, and we've done all this without a manager. Once we have him, and after these big moves AA will focus even more on trades and maybe a FA or 2...maybe another pitcher like Sanchez or Jackson is the payroll is even higher. I still want another one.
-
If we're deciding on Gose and Rasmus, it's kind of a toss up. Rasmus has more power, buts that about it. They both have speed and play well defensively, the only difference is, Rasmus has had more opportunity. I would give Gose a good long look. I think I just don't like Colby due to his hair, cut that sh!t already.
[QUOTE="JohnBean42"]
Travis d'Arneud is the highest ranked catcher in baseball and was ranked 11 on MLB.com. He missed the last half of the year with a torn PCL, so I expect he wouldn't be up for at least a month or two, but he's ready. My concern with trading him and/or Rasmus is that if this is the year we're "going for it", can we really go into it with an unproven rookie behind the plate with a mediocre backup, and a CF with almost no experience in Gose? Unless we sign someone that is.
I don't know, regardless of how highly touted he is, d'Arnaud is he's still unproven when it comes to the bigs, and we've seen what JPA can do, which is not getting on base a lot, but 20+ HR and 80+ RBI. But everything about d'Arneud to this point in AAA and AA is better than what JPA did.
And Gose...he's fast and plays good D most of the time, but I'd much prefer Rasmus. Hopefully the one from April-June, not the last half.
It's still November, and we've done all this without a manager. Once we have him, and after these big moves AA will focus even more on trades and maybe a FA or 2...maybe another pitcher like Sanchez or Jackson is the payroll is even higher. I still want another one.
[/QUOTE]Since they seem to have opened up the vault and are looking at right now, they should have the attention of the entire league. If they can convince a FA catcher to sign up, ie, Napoli, Martin or Pierzynski, they could afford to keep d'A on as a backup with regular games. 30-40. As AJ is in his twilight and Martin and Napoli have a couple good years left in them, they could allow the kid to get his toes wet without all the pressure that comes with starting in the bigs. But who wants to play that role? It would be a good story to bring Martin, a 'hometown kid', in to end his career. NY may suit him though.
-
If we're deciding on Gose and Rasmus, it's kind of a toss up. Rasmus has more power, buts that about it. They both have speed and play well defensively, the only difference is, Rasmus has had more opportunity. I would give Gose a good long look. I think I just don't like Colby due to his hair, cut that sh!t already. [spoiler]
, 
[/spoiler] - Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 19, 2012 6:06 pm GMTNamgis wrote:Since they seem to have opened up the vault and are looking at right now, they should have the attention of the entire league. If they can convince a FA catcher to sign up, ie, Napoli, Martin or Pierzynski, they could afford to keep d'A on as a backup with regular games. 30-40. As AJ is in his twilight and Martin and Napoli have a couple good years left in them, they could allow the kid to get his toes wet without all the pressure that comes with starting in the bigs. But who wants to play that role? It would be a good story to bring Martin, a 'hometown kid', in to end his career. NY may suit him though.JohnBean42 wrote:
Travis d'Arneud is the highest ranked catcher in baseball and was ranked 11 on MLB.com. He missed the last half of the year with a torn PCL, so I expect he wouldn't be up for at least a month or two, but he's ready. My concern with trading him and/or Rasmus is that if this is the year we're "going for it", can we really go into it with an unproven rookie behind the plate with a mediocre backup, and a CF with almost no experience in Gose? Unless we sign someone that is.
I don't know, regardless of how highly touted he is, d'Arnaud is he's still unproven when it comes to the bigs, and we've seen what JPA can do, which is not getting on base a lot, but 20+ HR and 80+ RBI. But everything about d'Arneud to this point in AAA and AA is better than what JPA did.
And Gose...he's fast and plays good D most of the time, but I'd much prefer Rasmus. Hopefully the one from April-June, not the last half.
It's still November, and we've done all this without a manager. Once we have him, and after these big moves AA will focus even more on trades and maybe a FA or 2...maybe another pitcher like Sanchez or Jackson is the payroll is even higher. I still want another one.
-
If we're deciding on Gose and Rasmus, it's kind of a toss up. Rasmus has more power, buts that about it. They both have speed and play well defensively, the only difference is, Rasmus has had more opportunity. I would give Gose a good long look. I think I just don't like Colby due to his hair, cut that sh!t already.
I don't think they want TDA to be a backup. They want him to play after missing half of last season. If he's up, he's playing. It's why we let Buck go before, so JPA could start. The ideal situation according to them is he starts in AAA, like Gose, ready when needed. They could have him on the 25 man roster to start the year if JPA is moved, but Buck/Wilson would back HIM up I think. I just don't see them bring in another catcher though.
[QUOTE="Namgis"]
[QUOTE="JohnBean42"]
Travis d'Arneud is the highest ranked catcher in baseball and was ranked 11 on MLB.com. He missed the last half of the year with a torn PCL, so I expect he wouldn't be up for at least a month or two, but he's ready. My concern with trading him and/or Rasmus is that if this is the year we're "going for it", can we really go into it with an unproven rookie behind the plate with a mediocre backup, and a CF with almost no experience in Gose? Unless we sign someone that is.
I don't know, regardless of how highly touted he is, d'Arnaud is he's still unproven when it comes to the bigs, and we've seen what JPA can do, which is not getting on base a lot, but 20+ HR and 80+ RBI. But everything about d'Arneud to this point in AAA and AA is better than what JPA did.
And Gose...he's fast and plays good D most of the time, but I'd much prefer Rasmus. Hopefully the one from April-June, not the last half.
It's still November, and we've done all this without a manager. Once we have him, and after these big moves AA will focus even more on trades and maybe a FA or 2...maybe another pitcher like Sanchez or Jackson is the payroll is even higher. I still want another one.
[/QUOTE]Since they seem to have opened up the vault and are looking at right now, they should have the attention of the entire league. If they can convince a FA catcher to sign up, ie, Napoli, Martin or Pierzynski, they could afford to keep d'A on as a backup with regular games. 30-40. As AJ is in his twilight and Martin and Napoli have a couple good years left in them, they could allow the kid to get his toes wet without all the pressure that comes with starting in the bigs. But who wants to play that role? It would be a good story to bring Martin, a 'hometown kid', in to end his career. NY may suit him though.
-
If we're deciding on Gose and Rasmus, it's kind of a toss up. Rasmus has more power, buts that about it. They both have speed and play well defensively, the only difference is, Rasmus has had more opportunity. I would give Gose a good long look. I think I just don't like Colby due to his hair, cut that sh!t already. [spoiler]
, [/spoiler] [/QUOTE]
I don't think they want TDA to be a backup. They want him to play after missing half of last season. If he's up, he's playing. It's why we let Buck go before, so JPA could start. The ideal situation according to them is he starts in AAA, like Gose, ready when needed. They could have him on the 25 man roster to start the year if JPA is moved, but Buck/Wilson would back HIM up I think. I just don't see them bring in another catcher though.
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- Nov 19, 2012 10:39 pm GMT
Very excited to be a Blue Jay fan that's for sure.
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- Nov 20, 2012 9:53 am GMT[QUOTE="muller39"]
Very excited to be a Blue Jay fan that's for sure.
[/QUOTE] For sure. Love the hiring of Gibbons. Never thought of him as a option, and was shocked by it...way out of left field. But it makes a ton of sense.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 20, 2012 4:42 pm GMT
Yanks resign Kuroda, for 1 year/15 mill Wuuuuuush,
had me worried for a moment.Edited on Nov 20, 2012 4:43 pm GMTAnd on the seventh day, God rested. Having created the heavens and the Earth, the seas and all they contain, He ceased all labors. But the seventh day being a Sunday, and with all of His fantasy teams playing, He needed a shortstop. So God created Derek Jeter, and blessed him, and said unto him, be fruitful. And Jeter was good. Jeter held dominion over opposing pitchers (.343 AVG in 2006), was plentiful in power (14 HR and 97 RBIs), and moved over the earth (34 steals) and across home plate (118 runs). And God blessed Jeter, and sanctified him, and said to Roto owners everywhere, make Jeter your No. 1 middle infielder.
[url=http://espn.go.com/new-york/mlb/story/_/id/8657316/hiroki-kuroda-new-york-yankees-agree-one-year-15m-deal-sources-say]Yanks resign Kuroda, for 1 year/15 mill[/url] Wuuuuuush, :D had me worried for a moment.
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- Nov 23, 2012 12:25 pm GMT
Latest odds to win the WS.
- Reds 7.5-1
- Nats 7.5-1
- Blue Jays 8.5-1
- Tex 8.5-1
- LAD 10-1
- NYY 11-1
- SF 12-1.
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- Nov 23, 2012 12:51 pm GMTAs you guys were saying, Fielder was also added, without him do they make the playoffs in that cupcake division? Trout plays in one of the most pitcher friendly parks in baseball, Cabrera plays with a fences in Comerica Park. The Triple crown is now invalid since we know those stats are overrated. The NYT even got in on this
http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/the-statistical-case-against-cabrera-for-m-v-p/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
A fake retrospective: Jeffrey Loria
http://www.fangraphs.com/not/index.php/fake-retrospective-the-jeffrey-loria-presidency/
Some people were really getting butt hurt because some internet baseball nerds even voted for Cabrera in 3rd or 4th place in the MVP voting
Ironically i would have given it to Braun, for coming through without Fielder and the black cloud of PEDs when last year i hated that he took it from Kemp. Tons of players have great seasons i'm hearing, guys like Cliff Lee and Clayton Kershaw, but for some reason (maybe the media doesn't like to hype up the same players all the time?) they are overlooked, someone new gets the hype. As you guys were saying, Fielder was also added, without him do they make the playoffs in that cupcake division? Trout plays in one of the most pitcher friendly parks in baseball, Cabrera plays with a fences in Comerica Park. The Triple crown is now invalid since we know those stats are overrated. The NYT even got in on this [url]http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/11/14/the-statistical-case-against-cabrera-for-m-v-p/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter[/url] A fake retrospective: Jeffrey Loria [url]http://www.fangraphs.com/not/index.php/fake-retrospective-the-jeffrey-loria-presidency/[/url] Some people were really getting butt hurt because some internet baseball nerds even voted for Cabrera in 3rd or 4th place in the MVP voting :lol: Ironically i would have given it to Braun, for coming through without Fielder and the black cloud of PEDs when last year i hated that he took it from Kemp. Tons of players have great seasons i'm hearing, guys like Cliff Lee and Clayton Kershaw, but for some reason (maybe the media doesn't like to hype up the same players all the time?) they are overlooked, someone new gets the hype.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 26, 2012 10:42 am GMT
And on the seventh day, God rested. Having created the heavens and the Earth, the seas and all they contain, He ceased all labors. But the seventh day being a Sunday, and with all of His fantasy teams playing, He needed a shortstop. So God created Derek Jeter, and blessed him, and said unto him, be fruitful. And Jeter was good. Jeter held dominion over opposing pitchers (.343 AVG in 2006), was plentiful in power (14 HR and 97 RBIs), and moved over the earth (34 steals) and across home plate (118 runs). And God blessed Jeter, and sanctified him, and said to Roto owners everywhere, make Jeter your No. 1 middle infielder.
[url=http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/8676611/evan-longoria-tampa-bay-rays-agree-100-million-extension]Longoria extended[/url]
Gotta tell you, I admire the Rays organization greatly, IMO the best front office in MLB and maybe in all of sports, but I don't know about this move. They had him signed through 2016, age 30, why extend him? Yeah, maybe he has 2 or 3 more great seasons after but is that worth tying yourself to him until he is 38? Longoria is injury prone, hasn't played more than 133 games the last two seasons.
For sure this brings cost certainty. Maybe they sell high at 30/31/32 with an affordable contract. Maybe ownership will simply start to spend more on payroll or maybe this is a move for taxpayers to approve that new stadium.
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- Nov 28, 2012 3:16 pm GMT
Uva Uvam Videndo Varia Fit
BJ Upton to the Braves, 5 years $75 million. Meh.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 28, 2012 3:20 pm GMT
[QUOTE="GamerForca"]BJ Upton to the Braves, 5 years $75 million. Meh.[/QUOTE]
Just heard this. Was good with Bourn but if Upton can play to his potential, will be worth it.
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- Nov 28, 2012 4:28 pm GMT
Thanks sune_Gem for sig!
Mars Social Society: http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions/home.php?union_id=MSS.
[QUOTE="36Ounces"][QUOTE="GamerForca"]BJ Upton to the Braves, 5 years $75 million. Meh.[/QUOTE]
Just heard this. Was good with Bourn but if Upton can play to his potential, will be worth it.
[/QUOTE] Especially due to financial problems. The Braves wouldn't have been able to sign Bourn and Hamilton. Hopefully it works out- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
- Nov 28, 2012 4:31 pm GMT
Thanks sune_Gem for sig!
Mars Social Society: http://www.gamespot.com/pages/unions/home.php?union_id=MSS.In other news:
Carlos Ruiz banned 25 games.- Please wait. Quick reply will be available shortly.
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