[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

"I'm not denying that those games were different design wise but that's besides the point."

How the heck is that besides the point? Should I not be dissapointed by Metal Gear Rising? Should I not be dissapointed by Tales of Symphonia 2 ? Should I not be dissapointed by Final Fantasy XIII?

What you are saying is it is unreasonable for fans of series to be dissapointed when the devs change the core of the games design. How dare I expect series to stay true to their roots! :P

[/QUOTE]it depends, if they change things up while still maintain core gameplay conventions you can't really blame them for trying to spice things up.

I mean people constantly give nintendo sh*t for rehashing NSMB but as soon as they try something new with paper mario sticker star they're up in arms

"baww where's my partners"

"baww where's my exp"

"Baww where's my badges"

[/QUOTE]

Did Metroid and Zelda NES (and future adaptions) NOT revolve around exploration in an open world? That IS their core gameplay design.

As for them changing things. I am scared for Sticker Star. It could be awesome, and I will wait and see. But while the ideas they have in place are cool, they stripped it down quite a bit too (from what I can tell). They took out the interconnected world, partners, badges, experience, and permanent upgrades and gave us a more level based RPG with stickers that you get and use, then are gone. Again, I don't know enough abotu the game to judge yet, but please tell me how this should not upset fans? Why not make the game more complex and add to it, rather than taking away all of what makes it so great to begin with?

I cannot find the quote right now, but as Reggie said himself at E3 in regards to Mario Kart 7. We want the same thing we have come to love, but with new stuff. With a twist, while retaining the core of the game. Meaning we want it to be expanded upon and improved, not stripped down for the masses!

[/QUOTE] paper mario does have permanent health and album upgrades. You get them by either finding them or doing sidequests, it's the stickers that are temporary. You have to make sure that you have enough and spend them wisely. Same with coins.

stickers can deal damage to multiple enemies so you also factor that in as well, it really adds a new layer of strategy.

But ofcourse people don't take this in to account and we get alot of whiners accusing them of killing the franchise simply because it isn't a 1:1 clone of the thousand year door

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

Did Metroid and Zelda NES (and future adaptions) NOT revolve around exploration in an open world? That IS their core gameplay design.

As for them changing things. I am scared for Sticker Star. It could be awesome, and I will wait and see. But while the ideas they have in place are cool, they stripped it down quite a bit too (from what I can tell). They took out the interconnected world, partners, badges, experience, and permanent upgrades and gave us a more level based RPG with stickers that you get and use, then are gone. Again, I don't know enough abotu the game to judge yet, but please tell me how this should not upset fans? Why not make the game more complex and add to it, rather than taking away all of what makes it so great to begin with?

I cannot find the quote right now, but as Reggie said himself at E3 in regards to Mario Kart 7. We want the same thing we have come to love, but with new stuff. With a twist, while retaining the core of the game. Meaning we want it to be expanded upon and improved, not stripped down for the masses!

[/QUOTE] paper mario does have permanent health and album upgrades. You get them by either finding them or doing sidequests, it's the stickers that are temporary. You have to make sure that you have enough and spend them wisely. Same with coins.

Also of the stickers can deal damage to multiple enemies so you also factor that in as well, it really adds a new layer of strategy.

But ofcourse people don't take this in to account and we get alot of whiners accusing them of killing the franchise simply because it isn't a 1:1 clone of the thousand year door

[/QUOTE]

Of course Sticker Star is not out and I will not pass judgement yet, but I don't like what I am hearing. Ultimately it comes down to opinion. I see how the strategic element is there and that does excite me to some extent. But with that said, aside from stories, one of the BIG reasons I play RPG's is because I really enjoy obtaining those godly items and exploring for each little thing. I cannot imagine playing a game like Tales of Symphonia and getting a weapon that breaks after use. Thats not fun. Have the stickers and all, but why do we need to take away the permanence of becoming awesome? Now it just seems like a gold farming game. If you have deep pockets, you can buy good stickers. If you have good stickers, you win. I know I will get a godly sticker and never use it because I will be saving it for that special time.

Who here agrees? Again, I am reserving judgement and in some ways it sounds good, but why not do what they are doing AND have partners? Why not do what they are doing AND have some permanent gear to find or something? It just feels like it has been simplified in every regard, aside from combat, which is never really the reason I play Paper mario, despite it being very good combat.

PS - they completely alienate fans with Super Paper Mario, know that they want a true RPG, then change it completely when they bring it back? Change can be made without ripping apart what makes the game so good to begin with.

[/QUOTE] You're still going to be solving puzzles, you're still going to have the same turn based combat the first 2 games were known for and all that typical mario rpg stuff. It's just the way you go about doing it that has changed.

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"][QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

Of course Sticker Star is not out and I will not pass judgement yet, but I don't like what I am hearing. Ultimately it comes down to opinion. I see how the strategic element is there and that does excite me to some extent. But with that said, aside from stories, one of the BIG reasons I play RPG's is because I really enjoy obtaining those godly items and exploring for each little thing. I cannot imagine playing a game like Tales of Symphonia and getting a weapon that breaks after use. Thats not fun. Have the stickers and all, but why do we need to take away the permanence of becoming awesome? Now it just seems like a gold farming game. If you have deep pockets, you can buy good stickers. If you have good stickers, you win. I know I will get a godly sticker and never use it because I will be saving it for that special time.

Who here agrees? Again, I am reserving judgement and in some ways it sounds good, but why not do what they are doing AND have partners? Why not do what they are doing AND have some permanent gear to find or something? It just feels like it has been simplified in every regard, aside from combat, which is never really the reason I play Paper mario, despite it being very good combat.

PS - they completely alienate fans with Super Paper Mario, know that they want a true RPG, then change it completely when they bring it back? Change can be made without ripping apart what makes the game so good to begin with.

[/QUOTE] You're still going to be solving puzzles, you're still going to have the same turn based combat the first 2 games were known for and all that typical mario rpg stuff. It's just the way you go about doing it that has changed. different=/= stripped down[/QUOTE]

How is taking out a connected world, experience, badges, items, and partners, then adding stickers and album upgrades not stripping it down? I don't get that.

[/QUOTE] All the areas in the game have about the same amount of exploration and puzzle solving as you'd find in any other paper mario, the only difference is you get to them via the world map rather than using a warp pipe.

You'll even find alternate routes and stuff. Although you might not be able to progress in them till you find a certain item

Outside of battles partners were used for puzzle solving. In this one it's done with stickers,( placing them in certain areas to activate things and such)

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

How is taking out a connected world, experience, badges, items, and partners, then adding stickers and album upgrades not stripping it down? I don't get that.

[/QUOTE] All the areas in the game have about the same amount of exploration and puzzle solving as you'd find in any other paper mario, the only difference is you get to them via the world map rather than using a warp pipe.

You'll even find alternate routes and stuff. Although you might not be able to progress in them till you find a certain item

Outside of battles partners were used for puzzle solving In this one it's done with stickers,( placing them in certain areas to activate things and such)

[/QUOTE]

I still stand that it lacks any interesting upgrades taht will motivate me to play and explore. Do we know everything yet? Maybe there is some permanent item upgrades and such? I sure hope so. Could be amazing if so.

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"][QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

lol you think im so blinded by nostalgia, but do you not agree that Skyward Sword is the most linear 3D Zelda to date? Do you not agree that Prime 3 and Other M were more linear than prime 1, 2, and Super (and all the others)? There is no denying this. This is a fact. Is it really so unreasonable for me to want them to go back to being exploration based?.

[/QUOTE] Yes I disagree, Metroid and Zelda(outside of the original which even itself had some) particularly since ALTTP, have always been linear. The game is designed to be beat in the order of X Y and Z, glitches that let you sequence break does not change that fact. No SS is not the most linear Zelda to date, it simply lacked a connected overworld. Its no different than the set path you were put on in all the other Zelda's. Could SS have used more side content? Yes. Is it any more of a designed path than he other Zelda's?No. The same goes for Metroid, The game is designed Ice Beam, Screwball, Gravity Suit, not get them in any order you want. So yes it is unreasonable for you to go back to something, they've never been. The only difference between games back then and games now, is they spell out how directed games are now. [/QUOTE]

Son of a gun Sapewrath! I am talking about the world itself, not the story! :P

The feel of exploration, sidestuff, and so on. Obviously Metroid and Zelda have a main storyline that is almost always linear. Perfectly fine by me. But let me explore the world for sidequests and hidden things, or even just to find where it is I am going and such.

[/QUOTE]SS did have little hidden areas that though. I remember the first time in Faron woods stumbling upon this clearing that had a bunch of crows, and they would poop on Links head

[QUOTE="NaveedLife"]

[QUOTE="meetroid8"]

[QUOTE="Shinobishyguy"]

SS did have little hidden areas that though. I remember the first time in Faron woods stumbling upon this clearing that had a bunch of crows, and they would poop on Links head

[/QUOTE]

What?:|

[/QUOTE]

lmao, my thoughts exactly.

[/QUOTE]

I can't believe you guys actaully missed this