Nintendo buying back RARE?

I personally can't see it happening but my god would it be amazing to see this actually happen.

LINK TO THE ARTICLE.

I can't see this happening.

Rare aren't the same company anymore. As someone else said most of, if not all of, the people that were part of RareWare when they were with Nintendo have moved on. I also don't think MS will want to give up the rights to all the franchises that would go with Rare.

Lastly, why would Nintendo (or any company for that matter) use up resources on the development of a game they don't have the rights to and have no guarantee they will get the rights to in the future? That right there tells me this anonymous "tipster" is just having a laugh.

I could see there been some truth to this, perhaps there not trying to buy back everything, but due to ownership issues, they can't do anything with DK64, perhaps they've been trying to buy the rights to the stuff in that game, and have simply discussed other "possibility's".spike6958

nothing more than a Pipe dream I say.

[QUOTE="spike6958"]I could see there been some truth to this, perhaps there not trying to buy back everything, but due to ownership issues, they can't do anything with DK64, perhaps they've been trying to buy the rights to the stuff in that game, and have simply discussed other "possibility's".Sepewrath

Well who cares if they buy the studio, I doubt most of the devs that were part of the "glory days" of Rare are even around anymore.

BUT

Buying the IP's of Rare such as Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Conker, Killer Instinct, etc. is a freakin' big deal. Nintendo could do a lot with those franchises. It blows my mind that Microsoft never utilized these franchises and let the Xbox become a glorified 3rd party machine; there is a lot of potential in those franchises.

I agree that those franchises don't have the same worth they might have once had, but there is definitely a lot of value in those franchises if they are utilized and resurrected properly. And we all know Nintendo could do it.

Of course this is a huge rumor considering Rare now makes Kinect titles. But, I'm hoping. Nintendo stock piling first party franchises is exactly what the WiiU will need to really give it that extra push.

Im sure Nintendo wont suceed in buying RARE, but atleast some of their old IP's like Conker or even Banjo, just maybe.

There was 1 guy in Rare who said that Rare went downhill because of Microsoft, but they made the avatars and stuff so Microsoft wouldnt give the whole company

finally...conkers bad fur day and DK64 on the VC!

I actually think there could be something to this. Yes, Microsoft does need new exclusive, first-party titles, but from what we've seen, Rare's titles simply do not work on the Xbox 360 platform. Try as it may, Microsoft has been unsuccessful branding Xbox as a place for iconic, family-friendly franchises like Banjo-Kazooie. With Nintendo's dire need of something to get people pumped-up about Wii U, a brand-new "Banjo" game would be perfect for them. It's their way of presenting something new and unexpected without taking a big chance on a new IP. Besides, I've always been under the impression that Nintendo has a much better working relationship with Microsoft than it does Sony (which probably stems to Microsoft's lack of a portable device).

If Nintendo does successfully buy back Rare, I will be very impressed.

That would be the WORST investment Nintendo has made in countless years. Heck, they'd be better off giving us money than giving it to Microsoft for Rare. Much better chance of getting some of that money back in Nintendo-related products from us than anything Rare can offer at this point. :P

All Nintendo would be investing in is a name right now, as everything that made Rare such a vital asset to Nintendo in the 16 and 64-bit games have long left the studio. Even if they got the likes of Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark, and Killer Instinct back on the Nintendo front, those titles would be shells of their past glory and would simply be overshadowed to all but those that continue to cling onto the disastrous notion that Nintendo should even think about Rare in today's day and age. And given the fact that Nintendo has development studios like Retro and Monolith right now, they're in a better situation now in terms of second-party prowess than they ever were with Rare, even if Rare was releasing more games when it was with Nintendo.

If Nintendo wants to buy a studio, it'd be much better off supporting up-and-coming studios with the talent and versatility to actually give its systems a boost in unique software, not re-purchase a studio whose most noticeable feat in recent years has been merely copying Nintendo's mass-market concepts for other consoles.

That would be the WORST investment Nintendo has made in countless years. Heck, they'd be better off giving us money than giving it to Microsoft for Rare. Much better chance of getting some of that money back in Nintendo-related products from us than anything Rare can offer at this point. :P

All Nintendo would be investing in is a name right now, as everything that made Rare such a vital asset to Nintendo in the 16 and 64-bit games have long left the studio. Even if they got the likes of Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark, and Killer Instinct back on the Nintendo front, those titles would be shells of their past glory and would simply be overshadowed to all but those that continue to cling onto the disastrous notion that Nintendo should even think about Rare in today's day and age. And given the fact that Nintendo has development studios like Retro and Monolith right now, they're in a better situation now in terms of second-party prowess than they ever were with Rare, even if Rare was releasing more games when it was with Nintendo.

If Nintendo wants to buy a studio, it'd be much better off supporting up-and-coming studios with the talent and versatility to actually give its systems a boost in unique software, not re-purchase a studio whose most noticeable feat in recent years has been merely copying Nintendo's mass-market concepts for other consoles.

Madmangamer364

How would the titles be a shell of their past glory? Who says Nintendo can't make a good game with their development team? The studio is worthless, but I think those IP's could be great, and sell great.

Im sure Nintendo wont suceed in buying RARE, but atleast some of their old IP's like Conker or even Banjo, just maybe.

There was 1 guy in Rare who said that Rare went downhill because of Microsoft, but they made the avatars and stuff so Microsoft wouldnt give the whole company

hotdiddykong

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

That would be the WORST investment Nintendo has made in countless years. Heck, they'd be better off giving us money than giving it to Microsoft for Rare. Much better chance of getting some of that money back in Nintendo-related products from us than anything Rare can offer at this point. :P

All Nintendo would be investing in is a name right now, as everything that made Rare such a vital asset to Nintendo in the 16 and 64-bit games have long left the studio. Even if they got the likes of Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark, and Killer Instinct back on the Nintendo front, those titles would be shells of their past glory and would simply be overshadowed to all but those that continue to cling onto the disastrous notion that Nintendo should even think about Rare in today's day and age. And given the fact that Nintendo has development studios like Retro and Monolith right now, they're in a better situation now in terms of second-party prowess than they ever were with Rare, even if Rare was releasing more games when it was with Nintendo.

If Nintendo wants to buy a studio, it'd be much better off supporting up-and-coming studios with the talent and versatility to actually give its systems a boost in unique software, not re-purchase a studio whose most noticeable feat in recent years has been merely copying Nintendo's mass-market concepts for other consoles.

sonic_spark

How would the titles be a shell of their past glory? Who says Nintendo can't make a good game with their development team? The studio is worthless, but I think those IP's could be great, and sell great.

Instead of wasting money buying back the past, how about coming up with new IPs & make a great game out of that?..you know, since they are suppose to be creative & innovative and all. As much as I love a new Killer Instinct..it will die in water if release now...there's just waay too many strong established fighting titles out there, that already have a strong fanbase...I don't think KI would gain that much interest today.

Considering what Nintendo have been doing with their own *old* IPs, ..I wouldn't consider them "making a great game out of it"...besides their Mario, Zelda & Metroid titles...rehash yea, a proper remake - still waiting to see.

[QUOTE="sonic_spark"]

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

That would be the WORST investment Nintendo has made in countless years. Heck, they'd be better off giving us money than giving it to Microsoft for Rare. Much better chance of getting some of that money back in Nintendo-related products from us than anything Rare can offer at this point. :P

All Nintendo would be investing in is a name right now, as everything that made Rare such a vital asset to Nintendo in the 16 and 64-bit games have long left the studio. Even if they got the likes of Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark, and Killer Instinct back on the Nintendo front, those titles would be shells of their past glory and would simply be overshadowed to all but those that continue to cling onto the disastrous notion that Nintendo should even think about Rare in today's day and age. And given the fact that Nintendo has development studios like Retro and Monolith right now, they're in a better situation now in terms of second-party prowess than they ever were with Rare, even if Rare was releasing more games when it was with Nintendo.

If Nintendo wants to buy a studio, it'd be much better off supporting up-and-coming studios with the talent and versatility to actually give its systems a boost in unique software, not re-purchase a studio whose most noticeable feat in recent years has been merely copying Nintendo's mass-market concepts for other consoles.

superbuuman

How would the titles be a shell of their past glory? Who says Nintendo can't make a good game with their development team? The studio is worthless, but I think those IP's could be great, and sell great.

Instead of wasting money buying back the past, how about coming up with new IPs & make a great game out of that?..you know, since they are suppose to be creative & innovative and all. As much as I love a new Killer Instinct..it will die in water if release now...there's just waay too many strong established fighting titles out there, that already have a strong fanbase...I don't think KI would gain that much interest today.

Considering what Nintendo have been doing with their own *old* IPs, ..I wouldn't consider them "making a great game out of it"...besides their Mario, Zelda & Metroid titles...rehash yea, a proper remake - still waiting to see.

Their "rehashes" were some of the highest rated games this generation. And you're contradicting yourself. You mention that Killer Instinct would fail because there are "too many strong established fighting titles." That argument can be used for almost any genre. So how would a new IP compete any better than Old IP's against "well established titles" across several genres?

I don't disagree that Nintendo should pursue new IP's. But, your argument is flawed. There are several AAA potential franchises owned by Rare that Nintendo could use. Not only that, but they'd be exclusive titles as well.

There are multiple problems with this. First of all, Rare is now basically a defunct company and they would acquire just the IPs. They would have to use their teams on those acquired IPs which already are working on Ninty's own games. Secondly, would MS even sell Rare back to Nintendo after buying it for a heck of a money? Bad investment it might have been on their behalf, but that does not mean they have no plans with the company whatsoever (even if it currently appears to be so). And finaly, do not forget that Rare were never fully owned by Nintendo and could afford a lot of creative freedom under them. While I respect Ninty, I also have to say that games like Conker's Bad Fur Day would have never happened if they were the developer/publisher of the said title. They happen to avoid controversial games at all costs (which is reasnoble given their "family friendly" image) and while times might have changed, I do doubt they could repeat the same creativity and uniqueness Rare had in their prime. But it's also true that at this point, anything would be better than the current state Rare is in. Even if we only got a new high-quality Banjo game from Ninty that would already be a lot.

yea i dont care ether way. rare is not what it used to be, it WAS one of the best studios around *imo but as far as i know conckers bad fur day was there last truly great game. or am i wrong?i cant think of any thing they have done sense MS bought them that was AAA class, i think i recall hearing they made a port of conkers Bad fur day for the xbox or 360 iirc with some extra content but seeing as it was still more or less the same game i dont really count that.

[QUOTE="spike6958"]I could see there been some truth to this, perhaps there not trying to buy back everything, but due to ownership issues, they can't do anything with DK64, perhaps they've been trying to buy the rights to the stuff in that game, and have simply discussed other "possibility's".Sepewrath

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"][QUOTE="spike6958"]I could see there been some truth to this, perhaps there not trying to buy back everything, but due to ownership issues, they can't do anything with DK64, perhaps they've been trying to buy the rights to the stuff in that game, and have simply discussed other "possibility's".Rod90

Nintendo refuses to put it up there.

[QUOTE="Rod90"][QUOTE="Sepewrath"] Nintendo has the rights to everything DK related that Rare ever made. I really don't see Nintendo spending a dime on Rare at this point, not even the Banjo Kazooie franchise is really worth anything at this point. And who knows if Killer Instinct still has value, the fighting genre is nowhere near what it use to be. Jaysonguy

Nintendo refuses to put it up there.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="Rod90"] So why is there no Donkey Kong 64 and Diddy Kong Racing on the Wii's VC?meetroid8

Nintendo refuses to put it up there.

Well DKR has Conker and Banjo in it so that's why we wont see that game on the VC.

As for DK64... I don't have a clue. Maybe Nintendo have just decided not to put it on there.

They aren't really trying to buy back rare, they are trying to buy back their IPs. I can see this happening for a few reasons.

MS has already stated, a long time ago that they aren't going to make anymore sequels to rare's old IPs. They are now a casual slop developer for MS, and that is all they want them for.

Retro is going through a lot of problems supposedly, Nintendo's more pivitol second party developer. They are launching a new system soon, they can't have their best side developer just be absent or struggling and do nothing about it. So Nintendo needs something, they need some new big seller IPs. Banjo, KI, Perfect Dark, Conker, would all be massive system sellers if nintendo could put new ones in the works for the Wii U.'

However Microsoft clearly has zero interest in release or making new entries of any of these... So imo it makes sense for both parties.

[QUOTE="meetroid8"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Nintendo refuses to put it up there.

KnightSkull

Well DKR has Conker and Banjo in it so that's why we wont see that game on the VC.

As for DK64... I don't have a clue. Maybe Nintendo have just decided not to put it on there.

[QUOTE="Madmangamer364"]

That would be the WORST investment Nintendo has made in countless years. Heck, they'd be better off giving us money than giving it to Microsoft for Rare. Much better chance of getting some of that money back in Nintendo-related products from us than anything Rare can offer at this point. :P

All Nintendo would be investing in is a name right now, as everything that made Rare such a vital asset to Nintendo in the 16 and 64-bit games have long left the studio. Even if they got the likes of Banjo-Kazooie, Perfect Dark, and Killer Instinct back on the Nintendo front, those titles would be shells of their past glory and would simply be overshadowed to all but those that continue to cling onto the disastrous notion that Nintendo should even think about Rare in today's day and age. And given the fact that Nintendo has development studios like Retro and Monolith right now, they're in a better situation now in terms of second-party prowess than they ever were with Rare, even if Rare was releasing more games when it was with Nintendo.

If Nintendo wants to buy a studio, it'd be much better off supporting up-and-coming studios with the talent and versatility to actually give its systems a boost in unique software, not re-purchase a studio whose most noticeable feat in recent years has been merely copying Nintendo's mass-market concepts for other consoles.

sonic_spark

How would the titles be a shell of their past glory? Who says Nintendo can't make a good game with their development team? The studio is worthless, but I think those IP's could be great, and sell great.

The answer to your question is simple: because Rare itself is a shell of its past glory. You've said it yourself that many of it developers from the N64 days have likely left, so what reason is there to believe that the current Rare could reproduce the classic titles from that era for a new gen?

And as for your suggestion that Nintendo should work on Rare's IPs, it just makes very little sense for Nintendo to buy a developer, or even the IPs themselves, and then have to use additional revenue and resources in order for those games to be good, when they could simply be using those same resources on their own established IPs or creating new ones. Not to mention that none of Rare's IPs would be extremely valuable for Nintendo at this point. The Rare franchise with the greatest commercial potential (which isn't saying a lot at this point) would probably be Banjo-Kazooie, and even that's a series inspired by the Super Mario 3D games, which would undoubtedly be better for Nintendo to work with from a point of sales and quality. Everything else would be pretty much a shot in the dark at this point, as superbuuman alluded to, and I doubt the combined sales of all of those IPs would come close to making up for what Nintendo would have to do just to obtain those franchises again.

Bottom line is that it would be a terrible idea to buy a developer that is well past its prime and then have to hold its hand whenever it made a game just to bring back faces that probably wouldn't be very relevant to today's gaming market, especially when you could be going out searching for new developers that are capable of being the new 'Rare' if that's what you're looking for. It's simply an investment that would be easier to make and have much more upside than the old Rare could offer.

Nintendo doesn't really want Rare as a company back, they want the IP's that Rare made so they can buy them and let another studio (Free Radical Possibly aka the Old Good Rare) use them. It's going to be a tough decision but I REALLY want a new Perfect Dark on it's rightful console.

Well that, and Battletoads which is really Tradewest but Rare did something with them on Battletoads in Battlemaniacs.

Nintendo doesn't really want Rare as a company back, they want the IP's that Rare made so they can buy them and let another studio (Free Radical Possibly aka the Old Good Rare) use them. It's going to be a tough decision but I REALLY want a new Perfect Dark on it's rightful console.nini200

Again, why not just make new IPs instead, and if you want, put those in the hands of capable developers? At this point in the lives of most of Rare's IPs, they bring nothing to the table that a brand new property couldn't have. There may be some sense of familiarity for a particular group of people, but at the end of the day, "Perfect Dark" and "Killer Instinct" will carry no more appeal than a brand new game in their respective genres. You'd just be paying extra in order to use those names. It just makes little sense to invest in barely relevant names when you can accomplish just as much by simply creating a few original games, or in the case of a game like Banjo-Kazooie, using what you already have. Nostalgia's nice and all, but there's absolutely nothing tough about this particular decision from a business perspective.

[QUOTE="nini200"]Nintendo doesn't really want Rare as a company back, they want the IP's that Rare made so they can buy them and let another studio (Free Radical Possibly aka the Old Good Rare) use them. It's going to be a tough decision but I REALLY want a new Perfect Dark on it's rightful console.Madmangamer364

Again, why not just make new IPs instead, and if you want, put those in the hands of capable developers? At this point in the lives of most of Rare's IPs, they bring nothing to the table that a brand new property couldn't have. There may be some sense of familiarity for a particular group of people, but at the end of the day, "Perfect Dark" and "Killer Instinct" will carry no more appeal than a brand new game in their respective genres. You'd just be paying extra in order to use those names. It just makes little sense to invest in barely relevant names when you can accomplish just as much by simply creating a few original games, or in the case of a game like Banjo-Kazooie, using what you already have. Nostalgia's nice and all, but there's absolutely nothing tough about this particular decision from a business perspective.

Even with as little interest as there may remain in these IP's, established, already familiar names always have a better chance of succeeding than ones that are brand new. meetroid8

Not if they would cost a developer a significant amount of money to obtain before it can even start working on the games. That's what makes this whole ordeal much less reasonable than if Nintendo was to simply take an old IP and give it a revival or even try to get a new one off the ground, which would be risky enough in the current game developing environment.

[QUOTE="meetroid8"] Even with as little interest as there may remain in these IP's, established, already familiar names always have a better chance of succeeding than ones that are brand new. Madmangamer364

Not if they would cost a developer a significant amount of money to obtain before it can even start working on the games. That's what makes this whole ordeal much less reasonable than if Nintendo was to simply take an old IP and give it a revival or even try to get a new one off the ground, which would be risky enough in the current game developing environment.

[QUOTE="KnightSkull"]

[QUOTE="meetroid8"] That doesn't make any sense, there must be some copy right issue somewhere.spike6958

Well DKR has Conker and Banjo in it so that's why we wont see that game on the VC.

As for DK64... I don't have a clue. Maybe Nintendo have just decided not to put it on there.

I didn't know that about DK64, I've only played it for about 5 minutes and haven't got around to playing it more :P

What I think is really strange about those Rare IPs is the Microsofots lack of interest in it. I thought they would at least but out a Killer Instinct or Banjo-Kazooie game from time to time for XBLA. Just to cash in from some old fans. Vegetable_Ninja

If you're talking about the old games, it could have something to do with them being Nintendo-published titles and/or possibly having Nintendo-related references or whatnot in them. If I'm not mistaken, Perfect Dark needed a change in order to be released on the Xbox 360 because of its big-head mode being called "DK mode," so it could be something similar. Still, don't take my word for it.

That being said, I just think Microsoft doesn't believe they have the kind of userbase to warrant releasing those games, Banjo-Kazooie in particular. Killer Instinct may have had a chance if it wasn't for the fact that the system has gotten plenty of high profile fighters in recent years. At the end of the day, it's probably more trouble than it's worth for Microsoft to bother with Rare's old IPs for the moment, too.

[QUOTE="meetroid8"][QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Nintendo refuses to put it up there.

KnightSkull

Well DKR has Conker and Banjo in it so that's why we wont see that game on the VC.

As for DK64... I don't have a clue. Maybe Nintendo have just decided not to put it on there.

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"][QUOTE="spike6958"]I could see there been some truth to this, perhaps there not trying to buy back everything, but due to ownership issues, they can't do anything with DK64, perhaps they've been trying to buy the rights to the stuff in that game, and have simply discussed other "possibility's".sonic_spark

Well who cares if they buy the studio, I doubt most of the devs that were part of the "glory days" of Rare are even around anymore.

BUT

Buying the IP's of Rare such as Banjo Kazooie, Perfect Dark, Conker, Killer Instinct, etc. is a freakin' big deal. Nintendo could do a lot with those franchises. It blows my mind that Microsoft never utilized these franchises and let the Xbox become a glorified 3rd party machine; there is a lot of potential in those franchises.

I agree that those franchises don't have the same worth they might have once had, but there is definitely a lot of value in those franchises if they are utilized and resurrected properly. And we all know Nintendo could do it.

Of course this is a huge rumor considering Rare now makes Kinect titles. But, I'm hoping. Nintendo stock piling first party franchises is exactly what the WiiU will need to really give it that extra push.

[QUOTE="Sepewrath"][QUOTE="spike6958"]I could see there been some truth to this, perhaps there not trying to buy back everything, but due to ownership issues, they can't do anything with DK64, perhaps they've been trying to buy the rights to the stuff in that game, and have simply discussed other "possibility's".Rod90

Whoever spread this rumor is a terrible person. Meinhard_X

Just a site trying to get hits, nothing more

[QUOTE="Meinhard_X"]Whoever spread this rumor is a terrible person. Jaysonguy

Just a site trying to get hits, nothing more

you scared microsoft might lose rare. thats all nothing more.

Cool, and my god, you're the guy who took that name before i did.

I already know Diddy Kong racing is out for the DS so I'm not sure why it hasn't reached VC yet. As for DK64, I think there was a mini-game in it the was exclusively owned by Rare. Could be the possible reason why it never got released for Wii VC...tocool340

Conker and Banjo were taken out of the DS remake and replaced with Dixie and Tiny Kong. As the VC is meant to be the original games with nothing changed (Wave Race being the exception with Nintendo taking out the sponsors during races), so unless Nintendo do get the rights to Banjo and Conker, DKR wont be put on the VC.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="Meinhard_X"]Whoever spread this rumor is a terrible person. KBFloYd

Just a site trying to get hits, nothing more

you scared microsoft might lose rare. thats all nothing more.

There's no chance of them losing anything.

Rare is 100 times better now then any other time in it's lifecycle, no one is going to ditch that cash cow.

The way Nintendo has been losing money since 2008 they don't have that kind of money to buy it.

Microsoft wont sell, Nintendo can't afford to buy.

Nintendo never "owned" Rare. Rare was always a second-party developer to Nintendo, similar to Silicon Knights.

As for buying them? Never gonna happen. Microsoft is making a killing off of Kinect titles with Rare. However, I could see Nintendo purchasing the Banjo-Kazooie franchise from them, maybe (it's not like Microsoft's doing anything with franchise).

[QUOTE="KBFloYd"]

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

Just a site trying to get hits, nothing more

Jaysonguy

you scared microsoft might lose rare. thats all nothing more.

There's no chance of them losing anything.

Rare is 100 times better now then any other time in it's lifecycle, no one is going to ditch that cash cow.

The way Nintendo has been losing money since 2008 they don't have that kind of money to buy it.

Microsoft wont sell, Nintendo can't afford to buy.

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

[QUOTE="KBFloYd"]

you scared microsoft might lose rare. thats all nothing more.

Wild_Card

There's no chance of them losing anything.

Rare is 100 times better now then any other time in it's lifecycle, no one is going to ditch that cash cow.

The way Nintendo has been losing money since 2008 they don't have that kind of money to buy it.

Microsoft wont sell, Nintendo can't afford to buy.

I have sent Nintendo a message and many more are doing so please send Nintendo as many messages as possible for it to buy back Rare the more people the better also search megagonzo222 on youtube and watch 11:00 long video and under show more itll show u three sites to vote on and also the rumor please vote and send Nintendo as many messages as you can about it buying back Rare thank you!we can do this if we all just stick together and tell Nintendo what we want!gonzo0822

The way Nintendo has been losing money since 2008 they don't have that kind of money to buy it.

Jaysonguy

Mind posting your source/numbers for this instead of talking out of your ass?

Just a site trying to get hits, nothing more

Jaysonguy

Just like your terrible website!

[QUOTE="Jaysonguy"]

The way Nintendo has been losing money since 2008 they don't have that kind of money to buy it.

ChubbyGuy40

Mind posting your source/numbers for this instead of talking out of your ass?

Just a site trying to get hits, nothing more

Jaysonguy

Just like your terrible website!

Terrible website? I don't have anything to do with terrible websites, that's why I avoid IGN.

ZING!

Also what are you talking about source? 2008 was the biggest year for the Wii, since then they've had to scale back their development program, put three campus builds on hold, cut back employee salaries, and haven't earned as much since then.

This is common knowledge, do you also want a source that water is wet and the sky is blue?