Lithius's run coverage

Ship1:Interior B *Deck*

Deck Hydra - The only thing to watch out for here is when he smashes his head into the boat, but it's easy enough to just dodge or trick through it.

Ship 2:Exterior A *again*

-(Hole in the Wall) same as before.

Temple1:Exterior A *Courtyard* - These are mostly just damage sponges without something else to distract you. Warehouse1:Interior Medusa - She might be a challenge if she didn't give so many orbs. Her attacks are fast, but all can be blocked except for the stone gaze. MG trial - Turned them to stone and broke them. Is it actually mandatory to turn them to stone? -(Hall) turned them to stone and broke them since there was an unused magic chest in Medusa's room.

Ballista Chamber:Exterior -(Balcony A) I was able to get a few ring outs here. I need to figure out some ways to do this without having to land a full combination and end with square -(Wall) I grabbed mostly, it kills more than one at a time -(Balcony B) Just one guy nothing to note *push statue down and drop below* Temple1:Exterior B *ballista* - My primary way of dealing with gorgons (Medusas?) is to launch them with st, or if there are more than 1 plume of prometheus, then grab over and over again. - I launched the minotaurs by holding triagle and went up with them, then grabbed until they died. The gorgons i defeated by launching and grabbing - I've been messing around with launches on these guys, but I don't know if it's really worth it yet.

*fire Ballista* -(Rope) I find the rope fighting sections pretty annoying. I am not sure if your square attack damage changes as you upgrade the blades. I just used square attacks and if surrounded hit back and forth, it's the only safe way i know of in the game when pincered on a rope. Ballista Chamber:Interior *again* - I shot them with the ballista. Is this allowed on PAIN+? Bridge:Exterior MG/Pressure Plate Puzzle - Froze the minotaur and moved on. Is there a way to get past this without using magic? Street:Exterior - I ran past the gorgons and minotaurs as i went along to take care of the archers first. Town Square:Exterior - This fight takes a few minutes but isn't very hard since the villagers respawn forever and give health. I tried to practice tricking through their attacks instead of just dodging, but it felt weird. Is there any point in the normal sss combo with the exception of the last hit that you are not able to freely roll out? Building:Interior *give chase and return here with the key* - Broke the shields and grabbed. -(Stairs) not much to say -(Balcony A) grabbed them -(Blocked Room) more of the same, break the shields and throw them into each other. -(Gorgons) launched them into grabs -(Balcony B) more grabbing and throwing enemies into one another. -(Hall) grabs *use key and drop below then navigate ahead*

Burning Courtyard:Exterior -(lower) The wraiths I just grabbed to launch and repeatedly grabbed them from the ground. Once the legionnaires spawned I quick rolled (I don't remember what the vets refer to this as) to the archers and threw them into whatever i could hit. The legionnaires and remaining wraiths were simple enough to finish off. -(upper) I grabbed the wraiths as best I could while playing it safe with the cyclops. It wasn't too long before they were cleared. I grabbed the health to be safe and cleared out the cyclopes. The only thing they do that gives me trouble is their stumble forward and hit you attack since they hardly ever do it. Broken Road:Exterior -Navigate column to balcony -(Diversions) grab whored the wraiths and the archers alike. -Navigate columns Rooftops:Exterior - Killed the minotaurs with launches and the harpies with grabs. There's a really annoying glitch where you can die from grabbing the harpies too close to the side. -Kick bridge down and head back for Zf Rooftops:Interior A *optional Wraiths of Athens fight* - Grabbed and blocked, not much too this fight. *bring the Ballista ahead* Broken Road:Interior *Treasure Room* - Mostly launched into collisions on this one. *get Zf and test it on the coward preventing progress* Rooftops:Interior B - This is the wraiths and legionnaires afterwords? I just grabbed and blocked the wraiths while launching the legionnaires into grabs for collisions. Oracle's Temple:Exterior - The harpies here are more threatening, but still easy enough to deal with by grabbing. The gorgons were also simple enough with launching them and grabbing over and over.

Oracle's Temple:Interior (Combat) -(lower) concentrated mainly on the statues, grabbing the harpies if they got close. -(upper) Navigate -(Halls) These guys had no armor so I grabbed and threw them into each other. Oracle's Temple:Interior (Puzzle) -Save her Sewer:Interior A -(lower) Moved around the corner to avoid the arrows and cleared out the legionnaires, then came back to clear the archers. -(upper) killed the minotaurs with launches and the archers with grabs. Sewer:Interior B -(lower) Navigate -(upper) I turned the cyclopes to stone since i don't have anything better to use my magic on. The minotaurs I took care of with launches, and then i finished off the archers.

Desert of Lost Souls Desert:Exterior A *Desert Siren Sacrifice* Siren 1 ? I watched a video of Shinobier doing this part and I used his strategy of letting them wander and hitting them only with the last hit of stsssst. It took a little bit, but it was safe. Siren 2 ? Same as before, but I had to watch carefully for the minotaur's shockwave since it cant be blocked. Once the siren was dead I used the minotaurs for health. Siren 3 ? Same as 2. Runes:Interior -(Conveyer/Crusher) Tougher than I anticipated, this one took me a few tries. I ended up just using Plume of Prometheus to stun them and kicking as much as I could. I got lucky and got 2 fully charged kicks in a row, which was enough to get me up to the ledge. Desert:Exterior B *Temple Sirens battle* - These sirens are much weaker than the ones in the desert. They are also vulnerable to launches. I kept chipping away at their health with st hoping to get a launch so I could land a full combo without them dodging. They also launch each other sometimes. There were a bunch of them, but their attacks are so weak I was able to take them down without much trouble. Pandora's Temple Pandora's Temple:Exterior *Desert King fight* -Navigate until you begin the fight -These things used to give me a ton of trouble, but I've adjusted to fighting them pretty well. They mainly either charge at you, which is telegraphed well in advance, or swing their bone clubs at you, followed by either more swinging, or smashing down. I tricked through the first swing, and rolled behind them, which seemed to avoid either follow up. This fight took a while so I alternated between keeping them at range when they were together, and getting closer when one was vulnerable. Much like the sirens in the desert I tried to time my stsssst from a distance so the only thing that hit was the last t. I do not go for the qte on these guys because it's too strict on the timing.

Pandora's Temple:Interior *Desert Wraith/Cursed Archers* - I grabbed into OH as much as possible, making sure to block as they come up from the ground. Once the archers came I threw them into the wraiths, then finished off the wraiths with more grabs into OH Chamber of the Crystal Eye:First Visit - Just a few archers. I grabbed them and threw them into one another. The Challenge of Atlas Hole Room:Interior A (lower) - This fight was very fun. The legionnaires had no armor so I grabbed and threw them into each other. When the Gorgons came out I used T (capitol T means holding T to launch correct?) and jumped up with them for the kill, using OH from the ground is just too dangerous here and they die very fast this way. The tricky part is getting the launch in. Rotating Wall Room *Fallen Legionnaires* - A couple of gorgons and a couple of archers, nothing too fancy. I like these blue gorgons since they don't die so quickly. I was able to launch these gorgons with plume of prometheus for the oh kills. Using PoP or OH on these is probably considered bad form, but it worked for me this time. NOTE: These don't have a "O" Hole Room:Interior B (upper) - These legionnaires are different. They have fancier armor and take quite a few more hits to kill. They're still not bad, I was able to launch them with st into OH. These can be dealt with many ways, and that seems the fastest, I'm sure there's a safer way. Underground Battle:Interior

*rope* - These rope battles are not that fun in my opinion. On this one I slowly went right, and when a wave spawned i took out the first left and right ones by alternating s hits, which seems to make you invincible if you do it right, then I led the remaining enemies back to the end of the rope and killed them from the ground. Nothing fancy, but it worked.

Underground Battle:Hades' Shield -This fight is really fun in my opinion. I used the obvious strategy of grabbing the unarmored legionnaires and throwing them into the armored ones. I eventually ran out of unarmored ones and was able to get a quick O prompt on some others with just a few taps, and finished them off by throwing them into one another.

Conveyor Belt Hall:Interior - Some legionnaires at a checkpoint. sst into OH for some collisions took care of it. The Cliffs of Atlas -(Catwalk) Usually I just grab harpies, but these i tried st into OH for collisions and was pleasantly surprised. Gonna have to remember that for later fights. -(Wall) I was able to get the first bunch to jump at me while i was on the edge of the cliff so they fell off. After I got towards the next cliff they were coming from both sides so I got up as high as I could and kept killing them from above as they came at me. I just hit s while holding down over and over. A time consuming and somewhat low brow strategy, but It's been a while so I couldn't come up with anything better on the fly.

Atlas Handle Room - I was afraid I'd get caught up on this part, but It only took a few tries. Setting up the right angles for breaking the shields was pretty tough since the sirens constantly hit you. Once the shields were broken I threw them one at a time at the sirens, killing a few. I used PR on the 2 sirens left killing 1, another spawned, but i killed both using PR with my remaining mana and was able to clear it.

The Chamber of Atlas (handle/statue/breakable door) -(lower) I waited for the minotaurs to get close and threw the archers into them. Once the archers were gone I finished off the minotaurs with st launch into jumping grabs. (upper) The legionnaires are in a tight hall here so st launch into OH took care of them with collisions. The archers i took out with grabs. *navigate back with the skull after getting it* Chamber of the Crystal Eye:Second Visit -(hallway ambush) This was similar to that last fight. I was able to st into OH from the launch until one died and another got an O prompt, I kept throwing and killing them until the fight was over.

Pandora's Temple Hallway:Interior (Cerberus Arena) I was afraid I was going to get stuck here, but I ended up clearing it without too much trouble. On PAIN this part is gonna be pretty rough I think. I used the same tactic I used in my NUR of 2 in it's version of this fight, which is to ignore the breeder already there, and focus on throwing the pups into each other to clear them out with collisions. My first several tries ended up with me having 5 or 6 adults alive when all the pups stopped spawning, but that was too many so I was forced to restart. After some practice I was able to clear out the pups with only 2 adults. I used PR at one point on a group of them i was worred about. I stoned one adult, which almost backfired since it took a lot of magic and i was barely able to break it in time. The other was just block and st until I got the prompt.

-(Desert Kings) I chipped constantly with t3 (I think t1 is plume of promtheus, and I'm not exactly sure what t2 is) as they approached the cerberus arena. Once they got there i still played it safe, mostly still using t3 to chip, but I did get in close occasionally to trick through them and do some more consistent damage. I was completely out of mana when I started the fight so I had no choice but to kill them with physical attacks only.

-(Archers) I'm sure speed runners dont bother to push the block, but I wasn't sure if there was a checkpoint after the cerberus breeders. I pushed the block as far as I could and rolled in for the spinning throw kills. -(Seeds/Archers) I used exclusively grabs in this fight since i was not at full health when i came into it. The Cerberus pups were easy to deal with, and once I took them out I went for the archers with grabs.

Cliff 1:Exterior (Captains) - Fun fight here. I mostly used st launch antics. I need to get more used to fighting these guys.

Cliff 2:Exterior (Minotaur Warriors) - Launched into jumping grab for these guys. I used them to get some health back.

Cage Push:Interior - I used that Shinobier run as a guide for this part and I got through it pretty smoothly. I launched the first guy with T into OH, grabbed when prompted, and repeated. I was able to get the cage up to the second checkpoint. I repeated the process with 2 more and got the cage to the third. This time they kept blocking my launches and there were 4 so I used PR 3 times in a row, which killed 2 and left the other 2 with O prompts. I finished them off and was able to drag the cage up to the top.

*navigate to Grotto with Cerberus Offspring*

Poseidon's Grotto:Interior -I used exclusively grabs here since I had no magic. I aimed for collisions, which were easy to pull off since the room is very small and there are enemies everywhere. I got hit a few times, but they give orbs regularly so it was no issue.

Poseidon's Temple -I cleared out the harpies by climbing the ladder on the right side of the room. The Cerberuses I tried out that launch into jumping grab you were talking about and it works fantastic. It's attacks aren't particularly dangerous by it's self either so I was able to attack pretty freely.

Swim Tube 2:Interior (Arena) - This is the fight against the scythe legionnaires in the room with all the breakable pots right? I found out you can go back and stand partially in the water and get free hits since they wont follow you that far. I used that to get launches into OH for collisions. Not too much worth noting on this one aside from that.

Swim Tube:Interior (Captain Chamber/Muse Key) - I might have this and the last fight switched, forgiveness please. The fight I'm referring to here is in the room with the switch against legionnaires and harpies. This one isn't too bad, I cleared out the harpies first with grabs, and took out the legionnaires with launches after st, or t0 into OH for collisions. This feels dangerous though, on a future PAIN run I'm probably gonna have to launch them into air grabs to make it safe.

Amphitrite's Temple -(lower) Some minotaurs. Launches into air grabs took care of the handily. -(upper) Just a few legionnaires. I was able to knock them all up with t0 get them with OH. Chamber of the Crystal Eye:Third Visit -(Hallway Ambush) Simple fight. I broke their shields with t0 and launched with st into collisions.

Hades' Hall:Interior (Centaur Sacrifice) - This has been the hardest fight so far, and I didn't anticipate it being so. I've been spoiled by normally having level 3 PR by this point. I kept trying st and T launches into air grabs, which worked fine, but I kept getting hit by their shockwave attack and dying before I even got the first circle completed. I checked that aforementioned video run by Shinobier and utilized the tactic he used of jumping in the blood, and hitting them with air t for the launch as you jump out. This worked much better since i was not nearly as vulnerable to those shockwaves. I'll have to polish my skills for a PAIN run though

Hades' Maze:Interior

-(Lower Halls) Not a hard fight on paper, but the camera angle makes it hard since the enemies constantly hit you from around the corner if you don't accommodate for it. My health is fully upgraded, including the upgrade from the sand. The gorgons I was able to get with st into jumping grab. The archers I threw at the other enemies, and the legionnaires I got with st into OH for collisions.

-(Room A).This was the hardest part. I eventually found that if you run back towards the entrance they'll top chasing you and if you slap them a few times you can coax one into the area for an easy launch into kill. It took a few minutes but I did it one at a time this way.

-(Room A Halls) A few legionnaires and archers. Aside from the hitting around the corner issue this was a simple fight of st into OH for collisions.

-(Upper Halls) Just a few archers, threw them into one another.

-(Room B) Some legionnaires. I used PR a few times since they were grouped up and killed them with launches from st, and by throwing them when I got an O prompt. The archers I killed by grabbing and throwing.

-(Hidden Room) A few more legionnaires. They're in a confined area so I was able to get them with st into OH. I feel there is a safer way I could be launching them though.

-(Exit) Same as before, I used t0 to launch instead of st though.

>VH NUR

Duly noted.

---

Aegean Sea

Ship1:Exterior

-Grab whoring works.  However, to be moreclear, which grab select option did you go with?  I like to think I know already, but just leave no uncertainties.

Ship1:Interior A

Hall Hydra - True, but for the sake of optimal play, what attacks did you use for this 'chip'?

Ship1:Interior B *Deck*

Deck Hydra - On these settings, the suction abuse method won't do much good (too slow).  However, the grab abuse approach is best.  Pity we cannot force the grab (merely make ourselves open for it).  What attacks did you chip with?

Ship1:Exterior B

-...

*beams*

Ship2:Exterior A

-(Box) Center or rightside? Lead their shots any?

-(Net) ...

*rope* Invoked the right to skip?  Once you get up there, you can just kill them easily enough.

Ship3:Interior

-...

-There are other options, but no use getting cute without NGR+ NUR+ conditions.

Ship3:Exterior

Hydra Twins - You just let them carry you between them while blocking/attacking.

I'll just provide copypasta here:

"*right first* Get between its 12 and 3 o'clock position to whore "s,t,s,s,s,s,t" while it tries its spin (can't touch you). Perhaps follow up with Ascension if I feel it's safe.

"s,t" keeps it safe while judging whether to work towards the full combo. If it whores the bites, give it a little space. *pin it down; repeat for left*"

Regarding a speedrun, they skip them.  Besides the method I used for PAIN (noted), you can be pulled between while going for t3, abuse the net (making them attack air), air PR spam (for your NUR) *often getting a mess of MP orbs and a chest for a refill down below*, etc.

Hydra King - You don't have a 's,t,t' combo at lvl1.  Did you mean 's,s,t'?  That's not the best damage you could be doing.  PR for i-frames and stun is well known.  For lock, it is even better.

"Whore Dissensions during the Roar. After Mast Breaks use "s,t,s,t,T" to Dissension whoring. For side bites use "s,t,s,s,s,s,t" (landing Spirit is the desired effect). For Center bites, net the stun lock and keep it up with block canceling.
Ex: s,t,s,s,s,s,L1,...

NOTE: This would be easier without the fancy usage of "t1". Hold foward during all this to speed up the buffer. Press L1 the instant the second hit of "s5" lands for highest chance of success."

If you can get the timing down, the glitch satavara uses for speedruns of this fight would be allowed (if you can manage it).  Also, it might be better for damage if you spam 's,s,s' in the air during roar instead of air t1.  My video on YT shows this, but in lesser conditions where I apply PR for the lock (as you could do).  He has obvious tells for the bite.

Ship 2:Exterior A *again*

-(Hole in the Wall) That would be?

Temple1:Exterior A *Courtyard*

-True.  What tactics did you go with for your chip?  I take it you didn't instantly kill any of them though you could have.

Warehouse1:Interior

Medusa - True, but that doesn't address what you did to wear her down.  Just implies block/evade and slaps.  We need more detailed tactical coverage.  There is a lock for this fight.

MG trial - Yes.  Unless you leave the room (not allowed for challenge runs).

-(Hall) Suits me.  Better use for it ahead, but use resources when you've got them and won't regret it later if it helps, yeah?

-(Balcony A) Valor for ring-out, was it?  Why not OH redirection?  You can lead them on and abuse the wall.  Also, AI boundary where you came from.  This besides normal handling with air OS/OH infinite for each for "O" then 360 toss at the lot of them.

-(Wall) Somewhat risky among others.  No i-frames for the side case and collision isn't full.  Better to block gaps and let them die instantly in the attempt to cross.  Better still, use the speed tactic to get to Balcony B without killing any, let them catch up and petrify or 's,t' to OH (redirect) for ring-out or even collisions.  Your call.

-(Balcony B) ...

*push statue down and drop below*

Temple1:Exterior B *ballista*

-They're Gorgons, yes.  's,t' for setting up Gorgons is too risky.  Use T.  Don't t0 chip them.  Which grab do you use over and over?  OH or air OS?  One is unsafe, but allows collisions.  The other is safe, but doesn't allow collsions (deals more damage).

-All good.  You can also have the Gorgon petrify her back-up.  I don't think ring-out works here.  Pity.

-Full launch isn't entirely necessary.  Bounce from the likes of t1 suffice.  Ring-out, collisions, etc. work great on them here.

-(Rope) Kick and grab as you move forward.  Speed tactic works great for all ropes except Hades Shield in Challenge of Atlas as the Fallen Legionnaires are programmed differently and will exploit openings made by the grab on you (need some luck on that front if you try to fight them like these guys).  Retreating to the start after baiting spawns works.  On this rope, you can drop off when surrounded and make your way back.

Ballista Chamber:Interior *again*

-There is no PAIN+ in GoW1.  Just PAIN.  And yes, it is allowed.  We don't restrict use of the environment.

Bridge:Exterior

MG/Pressure Plate Puzzle - Not without breaking a different rule.  Don't worry about it.  These things happen.

Street:Exterior

-You didn't note what you did to the Archers and the rest though.

Town Square:Exterior

-True.  The walking HP orbs are convenient on one hand, but a bother (for targetting) on another.  's,s,s'.  The full light string is 's,s,s,s,s,s'.  "s6" is "Valor".  It should be open to evade cancel.  What tactic did you use for the Cyclops Brutes?  Fighting them upclose is the harder path to take, but can be faster.  Easier to abuse sweet spots, grouping, t0, etc.  Without Artemis tricking, you won't have a great means to use i-frames on them short of spending magic with PR.

Building:Interior

*give chase and return here with the key*

-Alternatively, you can glitch grab them.

-(Stairs) ...

-(Balcony A) ...

-(Blocked Room) ...

-(Gorgons) ...

-(Balcony B) ...

-(Hall) ...

*use key and drop below then navigate ahead*

Burning Courtyard:Exterior

-(lower) You speak of OH infinite out of a ground OS.  Where did you do this to make that safe?  Quick roll is one of many names for it.  Don't worry about that.  360 toss of Archers noted.  What tactics for remaining forces?  There are sweet spots here.

-(upper) There are cheap methods for this fight.  The quick move you note from the Cyclops Enforcer is troublesome, indeed.

Broken Road:Exterior

-Navigate column to balcony

-(Diversions) ...

-Navigate columns

Rooftops:Exterior

-I'm unfamiliar with that glitch.  You could have made use of ring-out or collision.  Also, the ladder to the far right sets up petrification abuse nicely.

-Kick bridge down and head back for Zf

Rooftops:Interior A *optional Wraiths of Athens fight*

-Might surprise you, but there is a ring-out option here.  This besides AI boundaries.  Checkpoint exploiting is another option, but it is so easy, you probably wouldn't need it even in the worst of runs.

*bring the Ballista ahead*

Broken Road:Interior *Treasure Room*

-Done in the room they spawn, I presume.  You can funnel them, shoot them with the Ballista (hard to set-up), abuse petrification (especially with funneling and uneven surfaces), etc.

*get Zf and test it on the coward preventing progress*

Rooftops:Interior B

-The usual is fine.  Note the AI boundaries.

NOTE: I feel like some of the fights are noted.  Like the narrow pass leading to the Oracle's Temple.

Oracle's Temple:Exterior

-Gorgon can help you out here (flying foes are bad with petrification).

>Combos with blades I always use s,t,s,s,s,s,t if possible I usually try to end with t, but that can be dangerous. When I said stt I meant sts I accidentally put 2 ts because the t attack hits twice, and I did as much of the combo as the game would let me. Sometimes against grouped enemies I use Plume of Prometheus just since it's fast, easy, and sets up a launch.

>Box I have always gone right side, I never bothered with anything fancy on this part. I just wait for them to all fire then move the box and kick it up to the next one.

>Right to skip I only did it because that part is a very short distance to travel, but you get bogged down by fighting a bunch of enemies. I am not planning to skip anything else this run.

>Lower Docks These legionnaires are all over the place in this game and 2. I think for this particular fight I was out of practice and just kind of beat them down with whatever combo felt best while blocking. Now I've been launching them with st into OH for the kills, while grabbing and throwing with square whenever I get a prompt.

>Temple1:Exterior A *Courtyard* I chipped with stsssst if i could get the whole thing out. Usually I had to roll away before I could though. How do you instantly kill them?

>Medusa I mostly did just block and slap her. Very sloppy I admit. I looked up a video of Shinobier fighting her and saw how to do that lock.

>Ring outs Valor was the only way I knew of for sure to do it. I was hoping to get some advice on other ways to knock enemies around and hopefully out.

>Gorgons I've been using OH. Would the vets prefer to see air OS?

>Cyclops Brutes I play it safe with these guys, they're not that hard, but their attacks really hurt. I should have just turned them to stone, but I wasn't thinking about it at the time. I mainly kept my distance and chipped away at their health with sts combos.

>Burning Courtyard:Exterior I did not do it in any special place to make it safe, I relied on my ears to tell me if i needed to block since you can't see the whole room and the wraiths make a sound when they go under. I'll look into those safe spots for future runs.

>Thank you very much for your advice I'll keep the skeleton updated as I advance through the game.

Tired again.  Might not make much in the way of PSU rounds.  Got sufficiently caught up with GFAQs.  I'll have lots to attend by the end of the week though.  It'll take me some time to go through the ten pages with the former site.  Ideally, it should pass faster than with GFAQs.  Depends on how much 'effort' a given post takes.  Most are a breeze.  Substantial ones however...

I'll attend this tomorrow, before work (ideally).  I'll only have half of the day on Thursday to attend these matters.

>damage values

The 'GoW.doc' of the linked thread will have this as with the GoW1 Tactics/Tips thread here.  And yes.  It tends to deal more direct damage, but is harder to learn and use safely.  Homerun techniques and the Sword Summon abuses are critical to its effective use.  Cancels, tricking, ring-out, etc.  BoC are better for set-ups with grabs (without question).  For regular defending of oneself, the Blades are easily better (block isn't delayed and it can parry or even air block).

>for heavy foes

If you can master Artemis, yes.  It has that.  But Artemis is also able to outperform the Blades in some cases with ligher foes too, but that is usually through ring-out (Punt mostly).

>360 toss

Usually for the best.  You can aim with (L) in this entry.  GoWII uses (R) unless you're alone with a foe (then it is left analog).  GoW:A is bad with (R) and fine with (L), but (L)+(R) gives best control.

>Combos with blades
's,t,s,s,s,s,t' is certainly damaging if you can land all of it.  Still, just 's,t' would suffice for spamming when only looking for close damage.  It is also good for safe and quick bounce set-up.  T is very strong in this entry and has i-frames on persue while often tripping camera abuse.  't1' is worth two t0.  's,t,s' would just add a slap to the end.  If there is time, you can make that 's,t,s,t' or even 's,t,s,t,T'.  Technically, you could have done 's,t,T'.  's,s,t' is probably not good for you to use outside locking the likes of the Cyclops Brutes (but then you can chip from safe areas using the long string for t3 (Spirit).

>Box
Noted.

>Right to skip
Not even similar cases, eh?  Though, I suspect you may miss a few hidden (optional) encounters.

>Lower Docks
Slaps for chip is certainly a sign of rust.  You can abuse the docks as an AI boundary, use the bridge for a chokepoint, attack from an AI boundary by the bridge (if I recall right), etc.  Collisions are better for chokepoints and can be done with OH, Valor, etc.  Just launching (or bouncing) into air OS infinite or OH (less safe) to get "O" and 360 toss suffices.  Ring-out options are limited and not worth the trouble (invisible walls abound).

>Temple1:Exterior A *Courtyard*
I see.  One chip method is also abusable for ring-out.  Just use 's,s,t' with its back towards the cliff.  Keep doing it to force it over.  The second tends to use the quick attack (throwing itself off).  The third can be ran against (on its hand as it spawns) to glitch it over the side.  When in doubt, ring-out.

>Medusa
I don't think Shinobier ever did the lock I refer to.  Satvara and Elon are the only ones to have recorded that approach I'd made in CoO for the Gorgon Queens (but it froze the PSP version a lot *worked great for Medusa here though*):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLYOMnJIurM

NOTE: Best to start with 's,t,s,t' (you can follow-up with a T after t0, but that's excessive) during the opening stare for good damage, but you can just use 's,s,t' (landing t0 to break her stare and bounce).  When OH first connects, press and old triangle for quick T (versus slow T) when coming out of it.  This will guarantee a launch to set-up the next OH( where you repeat the same trick until she reaches "O").  She cannot defend herself.

>Ring outs
Besides s6, you have OH redirection. During OH, use (L) to change where you drop foes.  Takes a lot of practice.  Some air OS (like Minotaurs) allow you to change where you toss them with (L), but it is inverted if I recall right.  Also takes getting used to.  Later you will have air t1 with Artemis.  Spike is good for an elevated knockback.  Homerun can be better.  Punt is best.  The latter two cannot cause collisions though (instant are meant to clear invisible walls).  Artemis can fool the AI of foes with sword summon aside from cancels and tricking.  In the case of a Cerberus Breeder, some air hits make it float off the ground as if bounced which can interrupt any of its abilities and buy a small opening for launch even without camera abuse.

>Gorgons
Air OS is faster, safer, etc. though it does lack much potential for ring-out (and can't cause collisions).  Depends on the case.

>Cyclops Brutes
With your set-up, you might only have managed to get one (at most two if you catch them in the same stare).  But it would have sped things up a bit, yes.

>Burning Courtyard:Exterior
There are no less than three 'safe' places to abuse without going uptop.

---

Oracle's Temple:Interior (Combat)

-(lower) Using 's,t' to OH or ground OS?  Either is fine here.

-(upper) Navigate

-(Halls) ...

Oracle's Temple:Interior (Puzzle)

-Save her

Sewer:Interior A

-(lower) I presume regular handling for lack of details. Alternatively, you can target Archers first.

-(upper) With camera abuse, you can pretty well control this aside from terrain blocking Archer shots.  Archers can be used as ammo against targets or wiped out before the Minotaurs, but it is safe enough to just launch into 3x air OS.

Sewer:Interior B

-(lower) Navigate

-(upper) Caught them both, did you?  Did you handle the Minotaurs out in the open?  You can go after Archers first to allow this.

Desert:Exterior A *Desert Siren Sacrifice*

Siren 1 - Chip with t3.  Noted.  Now for copypasta:

"-Each has 125HP

-false grabs stop any of their attacks (including their shriek). Shriek can be interupted with any strike.

-If you create distance and wait long enough (after getting a Siren on the offensive) you can get it to return to wander mode.

-Keep away from the Minotaurs *preferably off-screen*
NOTE: If youre really skilled at set-ups, you could slam (air grab) a Minotaur on a Siren

-Upon hitting Siren 2 or Siren 3, two Minotaur Hammer Grunts spawn
NOTE: They will not stop respawning until the Siren they are paired with is dead
NOTE2: Obvious source of Health if you need it

-Plume/Spirit whoring *distance*, square mashing (6x square), 's,t', 's,t,s,s,s,s,t', 1x square to block, etc. all work well enough.

-Plume does 3, "t1" does 3/3, Ascension does 4, Valor does 5 and Spirit does 1/6 (7). During their shriek's charge up they are wide open but Valor and Spirit take too long to reliably set-up. Ascension is fairly quick and needs only land the one hit. Plume takes longer to set-up then Ascension and is weaker. "t1" is made of 2 Plumes (stronger then Ascension if both hit *which they will most probably during this opening) and generally lands just fine.

Rather then 42 Plumes for "O", I could use 32 Ascensions."

Regarding the first one: 

"Land an Ascension during its 'wander'. Get in defensive position until it either 'wanders' again or tries the shriek. In either case land another Ascension.

I find this really simple/easy though tedious. Easily the fastest way if you properly handle the attempt at repeated uses once you see a 'stun'.

Though you'll find yourself a tad distracted using this against the other 2 so long as their Minotaur help is meddling.

NOTE: I wasn't able to find a reliable way to keep up a loop of Ascensions infinetly (6 in a row being best so far). I used blocks to shorten the buffer after it lands."

In your case (NUR), you could have made good use of petrificaiton via the 3x rapid petrification glitch only applicable for these three (Desert Sirens).  The first one is really easy to do this too as it stands around and you can catch it during the cutscene.  The others are open to this, but it is harder to manage.  How much MP do you have now?  125 units rather than the base (100)?

Siren - You can get right in the face of Hammer Grunts and block their shockwave, but if you make any distance, the shockwave will land (that is unblockable).  You can evade through it or otherwise trick it.  Also, leap over, evade around, etc. (obviously).  Anytime you are at half life or less, you should leave the Siren alone and use 2x air OS (into maybe an OH) to get a Minotaur to "O" for HP refill.  Orbs are very potent in GoW1 and don't alter with settings (only costumes).  Exploitable.  Also, even objects can contain them at set locations (unlike later entries).

Siren 3 - ...

Runes:Interior

-(Conveyer/Crusher) Plenty of options.  You can leave the block along the background wall pillars (it gets stuck on them), kill all foes, break the spike trap (stopping the conveyor), use the spike trap, abuse the area the box comes from, etc.

Desert:Exterior B *Temple Sirens battle*

-They have less HP, but are more aggressive with different attacks.  's,t' into 'combo'?   Why not air OS or OH infinite?  You can drain their spawns, cause collisions, abuse their attacks against them, etc.  Copypasta would cover it, but it feels like I would be spoiling this fight for you before you have the chance to do PAIN.  I'll leave it at that you could make use of petrification very well in your current run.

Pandora's Temple

Pandora's Temple:Exterior *Desert King fight*

-Navigate until you begin the fight

-Just grouping them for 's,s,t' whoring suffices, but you can use t3 chip from one of two sweet spots aside from T for the same approach, but only from one location allowing you to get away with it over and over.  The QTE is worth getting good with.  HP drops are very potent.  I recall they drop orbs upon reaching it and perhaps after.  I forget.

Pandora's Temple:Interior *Desert Wraith/Cursed Archers*

-Lots of options to get fancy, but this is a very easy fight and basics work fine.  No need to go into details about alternatives.  Just beware that the air OS for these Wraiths glitches at times and Archers aren't fooled by AI breaking (while their shots can hit you out of even grabs).

Chamber of the Crystal Eye:First Visit

-...

The Challenge of Atlas

Hole Room:Interior A (lower)

-Correct.  Capitalization in this style of dubbing means to refer to held inputs generally.  Air OS infinite is good for the Gorgon Assassins.  Lots of alternative options, but this simple way of doing things suffices just fine.  Granted, you could make good use of Zf and maybe even Artemis (but that's very hard to learn).  Perhaps in PAIN we can talk of alternative options (but even then, the noted should work for that too).  Too bad they don't let you ring them out with the pit in the center of the room.  That would be amazing.  If we could use costumes with low Armor for VH, we could have had insane collisions tha would make the 'bridge' in the center good for funneling prior to collisions destroying Gorgons an instant.  What a shame that VH locked the option away.

Rotating Wall Room *Fallen Legionnaires*

-The ladder and spawn are abusable in the back room.

Hole Room:Interior B (upper)

-Fallen Legionnaires.  Sometimes don't have "O" option.  Slightly tougher than Cursed Legionnaires.  In your case, you could ring them out over the walls of the level with Artemis (clealry not intended).

Underground Battle:Interior *rope*

-They're fine.  It's just this one that is is bad thanks to the lack of rapid movement in GoW1 and the design oversight with Fallen Legionnaires on these ropes (unlike the others, they will have guaranteed damage on you if one grabs you and the other opts to follow-up with a slash).  If two grab at once, the second dies.  If they grab one after the next, that's an easy win.  If they stick to just melee, you can kick back and forth even as you are surrounded (but their grab has super armor, so if they opt to stop swinging, they'll go through your attack).  Kick and toss works fine, but eventually you're playing the odds.  Baiting spawns and heading back to the start can be safest, but is slow.  Artemis Lifts (exploit) can let you reach foreground pillars that have solid collision.  You can then jump along each while being (from the camera's perspective) in front of the rope and cross the entire thing that way, but that's questionable.  Using another exploit to go straight to the shield is not allowed at all.

Underground Battle:Hades' Shield

-Very high collision potential here.  360 toss whoring along the spawn points works great.  With Artemis, use T to air t1 over and over.  Pretty simple stuff, but very fun.  GoW:A's version of this isn't even as good as the GoWII case with spiked walls on either side.  This doesn't have a trap that kills foes until it is ready to kill us too, but there are so many trash foes and we can instantly kill the lesser version while using them to kill (or damn near do so) the tougher ones in huge numbers.  It comes off as pretty awesome rather than tedious and lame.  's6' can score you collisions for NGR+ NUR+, but such runs are generally not as fun for console entries (GoW:A might be an exception as it feels like a handheld title).  Same to NBR+ NUR+.

>Medusa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fk7IbQc4gkM That's the video I was referring to, but on closer inspection you're right it's not really a loop. I have been using that series of videos as reference points for anything I've had trouble with, so far I've only used it to help me with the desert sirens.

>Ring Outs I really appreciate the info I'll work on those for sure.

>Sewer:Interior B I got lucky and was able to stone both cyclopes almost at the same time. I fought the minotaurs around the corner to be safe, although killing the archers first would have been just as easy.

>Desert Sirens I'm curious how people do this in speedruns. I tried petrifying them, but they broke out almost instantly, I didn't know there was a glitch. I think I have upgraded my magic once so far, so 125 mp is the number as best as I can remember.

>Desert:Exterior B *Temple Sirens battle* I knew I could get them with OH, but I am not used to fighting them, so I wasn't able time it correctly most of the time. I also made liberal use of PR when I got them together. I didn't know you could petrify these.

>Ascension version of the Hades Shield fight This fight is so annoying. I am not looking forward to coming back to this part on future runs.

>video

The start isn't optimal, but the lock is there.  Amusing.

>that series

You should also refer to TazOne1.  Shin isn't always the best source for tactics (versus a good showing of skill).

>around the corner

Which one?  By the entrance or exit?

>speedruns

Skipped.  Refer to a speedrun or glitch videos (I have playlists for both).

>petrify

>break out

And they have 10K HP as such.  You 'herd me'.  The glitch is that 3x...RAPID petrification glitch kills them.  They shatter on their own upon the third break-out.

>PR

It's fine so long as you catch multiple.  Zf is better for single targets.  MG is fabulous against low resistance cases like them.  The instant you see the flash (before a statue appears), attack.  They freeze quick and break-out quicker (low HP targets).

>not looking forward

It wouldn't hurt my feelings if you opted out and used my Artemis Blade approach to going around it.  You've essentially already done it as you would in the PAIN run.  I sometimes offer grace for such things.  Your call though.

---

Conveyor Belt Hall:Interior

-Works fine.  You can also let the traps crush them.

The Cliffs of Atlas

-(Catwalk) Just mind that the famed Conveyor Belt in the Temple of Zeus doesn't lend itself to 's,t' to OH particularly well.

-(Wall) Ah, good.  Ring-out forced.  You can rush the whole thing and reach the chest on the first platform (or second even *even the area with the lever*) to fight them from ground while foes are still on the wall.

Atlas Handle Room

-In your run, petrification utterly destroys the challenge.  Sirens are nothing to it.  Also, Artemis is very good for killing them quickly during their "O" (mid-grab or grab kill) without using the grab.  Purity of 360 toss usage and such isn't necessary until PAIN handling.

-(lower) Lots of options, but it is an easy enough area that any choice suits me fine.

-(upper) Air OS would be safer among them, but the AI boundary at the start makes it safe to OH between them for collisions.  Petrification would work nicely too, but they are unworthy.

*navigate back with the skull after getting it*

Chamber of the Crystal Eye:Second Visit

-(hallway ambush) ...

>around the corner The one by the entrance.

>Desert Sirens 10k health? Isn't that over twice what Ares has? These things took a lot of hits to kill, but it didn't feel close to what Ares took even with fully upgraded blades.

Not looking forward I was actually referring to the Ascension version of this fight. The God of War 1 version is quite easy in my opinion.

Temple of Zeus conveyor belts This is gonna be a fun fight, but I think I'll be able to do it using grabs and constantly moving.

>entrance

Noted.

>over double Ares

Yep.

>didn't feel close

Try to DAMAGE KILL them rather than get them to "O".  I noted how much HP it takes to get them to "O", yes?  It is only something like 150 damage.  Also, Ares2 gets blasted by the BotG (averaging around 50 damage per hit on VH while your Blades are at around a whopping three or four damage on average).  Also, the same applies to Medusa.  If you damage kill her, you're stuck in the room.  I don't think it'll give you MG.

>Ascension version

You mean the double fire lock-on?  I was speaking of rope fights.  GoW:A doesn't have them.

>Temple of Zeus

With Archers dead, using the first conveyor belt works fine for quick rolling along to the right and using OS or 's,t' to OH.  Rapid rolls will prevent harpy bombing as with Artemis Tricking (good for Artemis PAIN+).  Alternatively, just head to the back, slap around the respawning Archers by the fire trap (on the exit) without standing around long enough to set off said trap, then attack with s6, t0, t3, etc. while moving on/off that position.  Be it to hit groups for chip damage, collisions or knock them into the crushers of the last conveyor.  You're to abuse the camera to keep foes docile while they are funneled in this approach.

---

Pandora's Temple Hallway:Interior

(Cerberus Arena) Rough?  Yeah, maybe.  Perhaps not as bad as you imagine after a few tricks are taught.  Your call whether you want to learn those beforehand.  If you're quick with ground OS and OH for the Seeds, you can clear them out with collisions via grabs.  Letting them grow up isn't quite the game over you imagine though.  You can prevent their 'birthing in a few ways. You realize you can launch/bounce Breeders for OH and even air OS (for an infinite), yes?  MG is lovely for this.  Artemis shatters foes well.  With Punt, you can cast the Breeder over the exit barrier where it will glitch out and walk at the barrier until you kill all the Seeds.  It takes practice though.

-(Desert Kings) To explain, t1 is the first triangle input in the 't,t,t' sequence.  Thus the slow double hit (fast with s1, evades, etc. leading into it).  It hits like two t0 (Plume).  't2' is the second input.  You need lvl3 BoC for this.  't3' is Spirit.  You don't have the fast path to it (just "s5").  "t0" (Plume) is designated as such because it exists as a light input outside the sequence (follows s2, s3 and s4).  Does this clear things up a bit on that front?

Spirit chip is common enough.  You could block them on one side of the Arena or even seperate the two.  Your call.  Artemis Tricking would be applicable at this point, but you would need quite a lot of practice to get it down.  You're going to want to learn Punt for Hades Bridge A.

-(Archers) I don't know that speedrunners do this section at all anymore.  I can't recall.  Just watch the tyrhhjy speedrun (53 minutes if I remember right).  That should address this neatly.

No need for the block against the Archers.  Just quick roll to rush them and 360 toss while watching for the glitch that causes them to die instantly on a higher surface.

-(Seeds/Archers) So long as you let the Seeds come to you while keeping away from the others, you will be fine.  Easy fight.

Cliff 1:Exterior (Captains)

-T into air OS infinite to mid-grab with quick T into air OS infinite for kill/grab kill.  Simples.

Cliff 2:Exterior (Minotaur Warriors)

-Suits me.  Alternatively, Punt/Homerun them off the cliff or funnel them for knockback collisions (would be worth doing if we had the denied super collisions *Ex: Tycoonius on VH would have been 200 for full collisions and 100 for half cases like knockback collisions...and that's no joke*).

>Ascension Yeah I was referring to the double fire closing in fight. A low point in the game for me personally, but it might grow on me once I play through the game a few more times. I hated the big fight before Clotho the first few times I played the game, but now it's one of my favorite fights in the whole series. I noticed there were no rope fights, but there was a part where you climb across a rope. I think there was something similar in CoO where you could sidle along a narrow ledge, but there was only one part in the game where it was used and that was to get a hidden chest.

>Cerberus arena Good call on using the blade to shatter the stoned ones. I did not know you could launch them into OH. I'll be sure to remember that for future runs. Does that also work on the versions from 2?

>t1,t2,t3, I understand now thank you for clearing that up.

Blade of Artemis moves I'm not exactly sure what you're referring to when you say punt or homerun, but they sound like they're worth learning. I looked at the move list, but none of the moves have those names.

Architect's Cave A -Is there not a place on the skeleton for the fight at the end of the flaming rock hallway? This fight in the cave, much like the centaur sacrifice, was much harder than I had anticipated. These blue minotaurs are 10x harder than the ones up to this point. I tried my usual strategy i've been using of launching with st or T, but these guys block it about 70% of the time, and if I get a successful launch i often got hit out of my grabs in the air. The camera is zoomed in too far and it can really be a problem. I figured out pretty early you can walk back into the hall you entered from and they won't follow you, this game probably has a ton of places you can do this kind of thing I don't know of. Using that tactic I was able to chip away with t3, occasionally getting a successful launch into jump grab from it. Once the first Minotaur died the archers spawn, which helps a lot. Once you grab them the camera zooms in ridiculously close so I was only able to successfully target the minotaurs a couple of times. Once the archers were dead I went back to the earlier strategy of t3 chipping from the hall until the fight ended.

-(Side route) Nothing really to note here, just threw the archers into the other enemies.

-(Rope) Not much to note, a short fight. I got close with s attacks and grabbed once I was near.

Architect?s Cave B *Arena* The fights are getting way more difficult now. For tougher runs I'm gonna need some help with this one for sure. The first wave of legionnaires was simple, I think these are the same legionnaires from back at the Athens docks, so along with launches it was easy to get O prompts. I had full magic going into the fight, and there is a magic chest there, so I figured for now magic was the way to go. With a little luck I was able to quickly stone and break the first centaur, then I got both the minotaurs together. I was able to stone and break all the big enemies with my initial mana, so I didn't even have to use the archers who I cleaned up with some throws.

Minotaur Boss Gate:Exterior

Pandora's Guardian

Stage 1 - (Vents) There's not actually much for me to say about this fight. From start to finish I used the sweet spot with the Blade of Artemis, and hit away with sstt , or ttt. I wish I could elaborate more, but there's not much else to say since I was in no danger as long as i stayed in the right spot.

Stage 2 - (Vents) see above

Stage 3 - (Armor) see above

Stage 4 - (Bare) see above

Minotaur Boss Gate:Exterior *AoH trial* - I tried out Army of Hades and the damage was way beyond any other magic, but the cost is high. I'm probably only gonna use this a little bit. I'm thinking it might be good at the conveyor belt fight. After using my magic up it was easy to finish them off with some st into OH collisions.

Chamber of the Crystal Eye:Fourth Visit -(Hallway Ambush) Easy setup for OH collisions from both t0 and st.

The Cliffs of Madness

Bridge to the Cliffs of Madness (3 Satyrs) - I was able to ring out all 3 of them by the barrier. With the Blade of Artemis I used T to launch, and T again in the air to knock them over the edge, which might be what you refer to as a homerun. I'm gonna be sure to practice this for the fight later where you have to fight a bunch of satyrs in a row.

Cliff Exterior

-(Ambush) Just a few legionnaires. I've been trying to play it more safe with these guys, they're easy, but I still get hit more than I'd like. I remember back in my NUR of 2 I got good enough where I basically never took damage from them. I got them with st into OH collisions back in the hallway for more of a bottleneck. It might have been wiser to use t0 to bounce them all though.

-(Archers/Harpies) There is a magic chest here and I had full magic going in so I used Army of Hades to clear these guys out.

*rope* - There were no enemies on the rope but some legionnaires right after it. I ringed them all out with T into air T with the blade. I think this whole area is gonna be great for ringouts considering it's mostly cliffs.

Cliff 2:Exterior

-(Side Route) If I'm right on what this is referring to it's just 2 archers. I grabbed them and moved on.

Cliff 2:Interior *Cave*

-(lower) This is another fight where the camera is zoomed in too far. I cleared out the legionnaires first with OH, mostly from st, but some t0. For the Satyrs I considered stoning them, but I decided to save my magic since they come one at a time and are not very threatening alone. I used primarily st into OH, and a lot of grabs since you can do them over and over, but I don't like doing it this way because it's irritating to have to press the button so much since it takes something like a dozen grabs to kill just 1.

-(upper) I really needed this health chest i was below half from the fight before. You've got lots of space to move around here, so it wasn't too hard to defeat the legionnaires with st or t0 into OH collisions.

*elevator*

Necklace of Aphrodite

-Get it, get out, get down

Cliff 2:Exterior -I took most of them out throwing the archers, the ones left I was able to ring out with the blade of artemis with T into jumping t.

Crank Platform Bridge:Interior A -Just some satyrs 1 at a time. I'm not sure what's the fastest way but I used mainly st into lauch for OH, with a few grabs.

-(Crossing) Crank Platform Bridge:Interior B -I cleared out the archers across the bridge with ZF, for PAIN does one have to just avoid the arrows while pulling the handle? After this it was just a few archers who i took care of with grabs, and a satyr who I defeated with st into OH and some grabs.

Cliff 3:Exterior A

(upper) I tried for a bit for ring outs with the Blade of Artemis, but I got tired of it pretty fast and stoned the first 2 together, broke them with the blade, and then used st with the blades into jumping grabs for the last minotaur.

-(Hidden Pool) Just some archers grabbed and threw them.

(lower) Easy ring outs on the satyrs with jumping t to knock them down. I grabbed the archers and threw them to defeat them.

*rope*

Cliff 3:Interior - I used the archers to damage the minotaurs, and once they were dead I used st launches into OH on the legionnaires for collision damage. Once they were cleared I stoned the minotaurs and moved on.

Necklace of Hera -Do the cursed puzzle

Cliff 3:Exterior B -(Wall) I was able to get quite a few to kill themselves jumping at me, the rest i killed with grabs. It's not the safest way I know, but killing them with the blades alone takes a long time. *navigate back and uses necklaces*

Cliff 4:Exterior -I was able to get good use out of OH redirection ring outs here. I stood by the edge of the cliff, launched with st, and redirected them off with OH. It worked on the legionnaires and Minotaurs alike.

The Architect's Tomb

Architect's Room:Interior A *hallway* - I used these guys to practice punts and homeruns. Those homeruns seemed to hit them so far up they went through the ceiling. I used st with the blades into jumping OS to finish them off.

Architect's Room:Rooftop *Desert King/Super Seeds* - I stoned and broke the Desert King as soon as he climbed up. I notice these are called Super Seeds, it feels like they take a lot more damage to kill than the normal ones. Eventually there were 3 adult ones and no more small ones coming, so I backed into a corner and stoned and broke the first one. Some more seeds came which I took care of with throws, and after they stopped I stoned and broke the last 2, stopping to throw a small one to death if it appeared.

Architect's Room:Exterior -I stoned and shattered the first Desert King when he landed, but I didn't have any magic after that so I had to fight the next 2 straight out. I feel there's a way I could get a ring out here, but I'm not sure how without being able to launch. I alternated between t3 chipping and hitting them from range with the blades, and getting close tricking through their attacks to try to do some bigger damage. I eventually wore them down. I killed 1 with the QTE and 1 normally, and as best as I can tell they give the same amount of health and magic orbs either way.

Zeus' Temple:Interior *Harpy Conveyor Belt* - Very fun fight. I had no magic so I had to do it the old fashioned way. The worst thing about this fight is that it's very hectic and difficult to get under control. My strategy was to immediately run to the back of the room, where there is a small area you can stand in front of the archers, and throw those archers into the groups of harpies to take out as many as possible. I did the same with the archers on the sides, but for some reason I kept dropping them as I threw them. Once the archers were all dead I went back to the front of the room, and stayed close to where the 2 conveyor belts meet to finish off the harpies with grabs. Sometimes I would use t0 to knock them all down, but mostly I just grabbed the rest of the fight, being careful to avoid their dive bombs.

-(Level 1) -After clearing out the initial archers I jumped up to the right and grabbed both archers that came out. I jumped back down, and was able to ring out the minotaur by throwing the archer at it. I finished by grabbing the left archer.

-(Level 2 right) I used st to launch into OH redirection ringouts here.

-(Level 2 left) I was able to ring out the minotaurs by throwing archers at them. I finished the archers with grabs.

-(Level 3) Took out the archers with throws and the minotaurs with st into jumping OS.

*column 1*

-(Level 4) Some archers just threw them

-(Level 5) see above.

*column 2*

Hades A

*Bridge of Hades*

-(11 Hades Satyrs) Hades B Very fun fight. I was able to defeat them with punts. My setup was scc with the blade for the bounce followed by blocking t for the punt. It took a few tries, but it really wasn't that bad at all. You can seemingly punt them off any side. I'd elaborate more, but that's really all I did was block and use that combo to punt them. - Just archers, nothing to note. *climb a rope after that tough fight against thin air*

Return to Athens

Destroyed Oracle Temple

-(lower) I think this fight is just to show you how much stronger you are since you first left Athens. The Cyclopes died pretty fast from the blade, and the minotaurs I switched to the blades and launched with T for some air OS.

-(stairwell) I used the archers to throw into the Gorgons, and once they were dead I launched with st into jumping OS for the kills.

-(upper) Just a few archers, I defeated them by throwing them into each other.

-(hall) The Minotaurs I killed by launching with st into OH,since there was not room to infinitely OS that I could tell. The archers I grabbed and threw.

*navigate to Ares*

Ares 1 (4,000HP)

-(100-75% HP) I went with the decision to use Army of Hades in this fight, just because the raw damage is put out was incredibly high, and he gave a ton of blue orbs. To offset the danger of obscuring my vision of him I tended to stay away until it wore off and resumed the fight up close after. I used the blade and my combo was ssts. I tried some other combos, but I'm not that experienced with it so I ended up sticking with that one. When the fight started I immediately used army, got in a few hits, and backed off. Ares really isn't that hard in my opinion, but he does huge damage and takes a huge amount of damage to defeat, so it took quite a few tries before I got him down successfully. The main thing to watch out for is his overhead smash attack, which will take you from 100% to about 15% health if both hits connect.

NOTE: "Ah, is that the best you can do?".

-(75-50% HP) This is the same as the first part, but now he has a new attack where his hammer vomits fire that's simple enough to deal with, as it can just be blocked. Most attempts this phase was mostly him doing that over and over again with me blocking and retaliating.

NOTE: "You are no warrior" followed by HAMMERTIME

-(50-25% HP) Way harder than the previous 2 phases. He now uses his hammer smash much more liberally, and he has a new attack where he floats in the air and shoots meteors at you. I noticed pretty early that when he floats up you can knock him back down with ZF, so I made sure to always keep enough magic to use it when needed. Aside from having to be extra careful I progressed through this phase steadily, using army when I had over 50% magic.

NOTE: "Relent! You have already lost, spartan!"

-(25-0% HP) This phase didn't feel any different than the last one, and it ends before 0% so it was short. I used the same tactic as the previous phase, but was extra extra careful since I had gotten him down so low.

I'm not interested in doing the clones fight for now, I'd rather start up a new run. If people want I can post how I would have done the clones and Ares 2. I'm gonna start a vanilla VH run of 3 next in preparation for a NUR. I'll fill my skeleton in this topic unless people object. Thanks to all, especially GMG for the help getting through this run, I look forward to my next one!

Have a look on YouTube for the home run techniques. 

Basically a launch then a launch or a bounce and a launch, with odd results.

I would link you but I'm not on a real computer right now.  

Cage Push:Interior

-You sure refer back to Shin a lot.  Curious choice, but I suppose that would be the obvious one for many.

Why OH?  Why not air OS?  Did you use quick T after the mid-grab to keep up the lock?  When there is a large number of them, it is best to get them all near death before finishing them off.  Also, petrification is a fine alternative for your settings.

*navigate to Grotto with Cerberus Offspring*

Poseidon's Grotto:Interior

-Grab whoring suffices though there are other approaches.

Poseidon's Temple

-Pulled them away did you?  The area by the statue is a boundary for the Breeder that often denies Harpies too.  Abusable.  Air OS infinite is slow and steady, but here you would have done better to learn the OH redirection trick (or juggling) to put it in the water (instant kill).  Artemis techniques cover this too.  Have you learned how to pretty well guarantee you get it off its feet yet?

Swim Tube 2:Interior (Arena)

-No.  That would be the 'Captain Chamber' noted for a Muse Key.  Tactics for that area noted.  Pity we cannot put them into the water for instant death.

Swim Tube:Interior (Captain Chamber/Muse Key)

-I see you must have made the connection I noted just previously.  You can go to the upper level to isolate Harpies and ring-outs are quite helpful to speed the killing of all foes along.  Artemis has a tactic for sending all spawns, but one uptop (left alive) while you kill one after another of a given spawn pool before finishing off one uptop to free up that pool (repeated until all die in one-on-one).  Fancy stuff that really isn't necessary, but it's neat just the same.  Indeed OH is dangerous unless you have an opening to do so.  No i-frames.

-(lower) Alternatively, ring-out or petrification.

-(upper) I forget if they can be rung-out.  Petrification surely.  The usual handling suffices.Just a few legionnaires.

Chamber of the Crystal Eye:Third Visit

-(Hallway Ambush) Haven't tried glitch grabbing through their shields yet?  Might be something for PAIN.  Spice things up with alternate tactics.

-Didn't expect it?  I thought it would be obvious.  lvl3 PR?  Yes, that would pretty well hide the potential trouble here.  It takes time to learn their behavior, moves, etc.  They're dangerous.  Killing them in the circle, using the environment well, etc. ...all key.  Petrification is very good here.  Pity we cannot knock them into the blood pool for the sacrifice (or at all).

To note it, you're likely watching the video series when Shin first started with GoW1 and all the vets were teaching him.  He had just come from GoWII at the time.  Also, he was slow to listen about many things (air OS infinite, Homerun techniques, etc.).  So not all tactics are ideal.  Blood pool abuse is one of my tricks.  I don't believe he makes full use of it for petrificaiton, but just does the slower approach for NUR+ (as if PAIN).  My other approach for this bit is the 'darkness' exploit.  I can provide copypasta about all this if you like.  Taz might have shown this alternative means.  I know someone did.  Shin eventually circled back for PAIN, but I forget if he just did the same thing as in the NUR+.

Hades' Maze:Interior

-(Lower Halls) Around the corner?  I suppose that would apply, but usually camera abuse is our ally before entries where off-screen attack is allowed (GoWIII, GoS and GoW:A).  200HP noted.  What of magic? 175 units.  Lots of AI boundary abuse and the like here, but the usual tactics of infinite grabs and collisiosn suffice (no need for petrification via MP or friendly fire).

-(Room A) Indeed it is a psuedo-boundary as with the other halls this room leads to.

-(Room A Halls) ...

-(Upper Halls) ...

-(Room B) Just using magic because you can, eh?

-(Hidden Room) The 'bounce' in question is as safe as it gets.  OH is the unsafe choice here.

-(Exit) Plume for the bounce?  Very well.

>character limit

You might have realized that I've ran into it more than a few times in the past.

>someone objects

And I'd overrule the complaint.

Architect's Cave A

-I don't believe the original skeleton ever had it noted.  It's safe to assume what the tactis are.  Never got around to amending it.

Minotaur Tormentors are launch immune outside their spawn or already being in the air.  They defend well against bounces, but are not immune.  You can reliably bounce with t1 with the right set-up.  I can teach that.  Ring-out is an option here.  Indeed there are a lot of AI boundaries in each entry.  Even GoW:A.  Chip methods take too long for my tastes.  At least Archer 360 toss for collisions would help with the chip quite a bit as would s6 (they don't defend well against it) to cause knockback collisions, but ring-out is still far better.  At the spawn, it is easy to get the 3x air OS to speed things along.

-(Rope) So kick to grab.  You've got it down now?  You can just force your way through and ignore those behind you if quick.

Architect''s Cave B *Arena*

-Tougher arrangements of foes, I suppose you mean.  You'll have all the help you could need.  Care for a sample?  Ring-outs of Minotaur Tormentors (even in PAIN with Blades).  How does that alone strike you?  Would it simplify the fight if they weren't part of it?  If you get the Centaur set-up for air OS infinite, you're pretty well off (as you well know).  Archers aren't an issue (they can help as ammo).  For these settings you would still have petrification.  Even Artemis to send everyone flying, turn off AI, etc.

Ah, so you made use of petrification.  Bravo.  This is the power of petrification even at base (just with a healthy supply of magic).  Even better in GoWII.  After that...it began a tragic nosedive.  GoW:A has put it five under.  Any further and it is dead to me.

Pandora's Guardian

Stage 1 - (Vents) To note it, satvara showed we can skip most of the fight with repeated lever pulls.  Before that, double lever pull was well known along with the sweet spot.  Fighting at the top is easiest even without the latter.  Ground fighting is more interesting, but that too can be very easy.  For Artemis, the strings you're using aren't optimal for damage or an infinite.  Not that it matters much beyond how long you wish to chip.  For a fight like this, I don't feel too bad about one opting to do as satvara did in getting S1 to the visual cue of the first vent break and beginning the lever pull exploit to go all the way to Stage 4 (HP bar) *done from the sweet spot*.  Makes the fight fly by.  Not that there is much of one here anyway.

Stage 2 - (Vents) ...

Stage 3 - (Armor) ...

Stage 4 - (Bare) ...

Minotaur Boss Gate:Exterior *AoH trial*

-AoH is too wasteful of magic, though neat.  There is still good use for it at lvl1, but often petrification is better (just not for those immune to it).  Beware that the souls will obscure your vision and sometimes provoke counter attacks (Ares1).  Regarding this fight, AI boundary abuse, camera abuse, etc.  Lots of fancy methods if you care to read about all that.  My notes are readily available here at TUGOWU along with other places.

Chamber of the Crystal Eye:Fourth Visit

-(Hallway Ambush) Too bad the spikes aren't active *dealing damage, rather than saying the crusher they're attached to should be still on* beyond the glitch grab forcing us into it if one isn't careful.

The Cliffs of Madness

Bridge to the Cliffs of Madness (3 Satyrs)

-What you refer to is 'Spike' (aerial knockback).  Homerun doesn't work on Satyrs (launch into launch).  Punt does (bounce into launch).  Punt would let you ring them out even from the starting point of the fight (up over the high wall).  Punt is what you will want to learn for Hades Bridge A.  That's the fight you note. Spike does not work there as the invisible wall factors.  This fight lacks one at the location you note, thus even the BoC can ring them out with a launch into air slaps (provoking their air recovery *killing themselves essentially*). Besides my early videos and collobaritive work with Shin, Shin showed some CotG handling with Artemis and Taz did some Artemis PAIN videos.  I don't know that either made great use of Artemis Tricking though.

Cliff Exterior

-(Ambush) Lots of aid from terrain to pick from here.  I like interesting places to do battle and some entries too often force boring, generic circular, featureless/advantageless arenas.  That is very tiresome to deal with again and again with trash mobs.  Interesting foe layouts with interesting places to do battle. That's what I like.

-(Archers/Harpies) ...

*rope*

-Lots of ring-outs indeed.  Chokepoints too.  AI boundaries, sweet spots, etc.  By where you land after the rope, there is a sweet spot.  Not that it is needed.  Just another option.

Cliff 2:Exterior

-(Side Route) ...

Cliff 2:Interior *Cave*

-(lower) Too far?  GoW:A is going to rub you all wrong.

One can deal with Cursed Legionnaire like usual while ignoring the Satyr, but abusing the sweet spot is easiest for collisions, chip and/or petrification.  You can ground OS whore on Satyrs (very tiring to do repeatedly in GoW1 and the damage is low *GoWIII made it easy and VERY damaging, so remember this for that entry*, but the lock with t1 during their recovery animation (wake-up) always bounces before they can hit and then you can use OH to slam them.  Note that air OS deals no damage on them.

-(upper) Lots of room and an AI boundary.  Again.  They're all over the place and I love it.

*elevator*

Necklace of Aphrodite

-Get it, get out, get down

Cliff 2:Exterior

-...

Crank Platform Bridge:Interior A

-Fighting from the boundary is possible, but 1v1 works fine for the lock.  Ring-out is an option along with petrification.

-(Crossing) Yes.  You have to just avoid the arrows. It sucks like that.

Crank Platform Bridge:Interior B

-Another AI boundary and even ring-out as an option.

Cliff 3:Exterior A

(upper) This area has high invisible walls.  Too high even for Artemis.  Pity.  Petrification works fine though.  As would 3x air OS if you can set it up (with the right method, you will do this reliably for PAIN).

-(Hidden Pool) ...

(lower) You can rush the Archers for 360 toss or keep far way and lure the Satyrs by the ladder you came from for ring-out while staying clear of their attacks and Archer line-of-sight.

*rope*

Cliff 3:Interior

-The tunnel between the two areas is good for collisions and even petrification.  The puzzle room is decent for an AI boundary and other exploits.  The handling you use if just fine though.

-Do the cursed puzzle

Cliff 3:Exterior B

-(Wall) Suits me.

Cliff 4:Exterior

-Oh?  Well done.  I don't even recall OH redirection being of service here.  I know there is an AI boundary or two here along with a chokepoint.  Ring-out for Artemis is easy enough.

>Shinobier I didn't even specifically look for him, I just searched youtube for "God of war 1 PAIN" and the first video that was part of a series of runs for the whole game and not someone doing the clones part was by Shinobier so that's the series I decided to watch and reference. I also don't know most of the vets names, on youtube I just know BigVEE, Shinobier, and Taz, but BigVEE has a huge selection from many runners. I get the feeling this board was a lot more active a few years back when the God of War series was newer.

>Cage push The thought of using petrification did occur to me. I think I watched the video of Shin's run before I attempted it so OH was either what he used, or I was going for collisions to try to avoid having more come after me. What does OS actually stand for? I see Orion's Harpoon in the move list, but nothing for grab.

>Launching Breeders I don't have it down 100%, but I'm getting there. I'll have plenty of time to practice on a future NUR+ and PAIN run. When I did this fight I hadn't tried using OH for ring outs yet. I'll be sure to note that for future runs.

>Minotaur Tormentors My personal least favorite enemy to fight. Hard to launch, and in pairs they always seem to hit me out of the air even if I get a launch. Reliably launch with t1 you say? is there a difference between using that and st? In my current run I am stoning these guys if at all possible.

>Rope fights I've got them down pretty well, I still get hit sometimes though. I'll sharpen my skills in future runs.

>More difficult fights It's both more difficult combinations, and more difficult enemies in general are featured prominently like centaurs and tormentors. Ringing out the tormentors sounds fantastic, what's the preferred way? s6? OH?

>Petrification throughout the games I agree with you. In 1 it's really useful against a lot of the tougher enemies even at level 1. Two's version was even better since you didn't have to stand still, but since they stopped using the head directly after that it turned strange. 3 was ok with summoning the gorgon and being able to stone with the golden fleece, but GoS really messed it up since it's pretty unfeasible to break the stoned/frozen enemies on NUR.

>Army of Hades I don't think I'm gonna use it at all. The only time I might would be the conveyor belt room, or against Ares, but I don't like how it makes him hard to see. I'll probably use my magic on ZF for that fight.

>Homeruns and punts I was actually watching a video on your youtube about that exact subject when I saw your post. I can't wait to try these some more.

>more active when

The series wasn't in decline.  CoO started the slip.  GoWIII was the real start of a serious dive.  GoS dragged it down just a bit further, but GoW:A?  I'd say the series is 'five under'.  Another push and they'll reboot at this rate.

>OS

Orion's Snare.

>movelist

It wasn't named until GoWIII.

>practice

Just get them off-screen and go for it then (usually evading into quick T as they come back on-screen).  Artemis has a trick for it too, but that won't apply in PAIN+.

>least favorite

When you learn to reliably get them in the air, you'll be fine.

>difference

Not really.  Like T, t1 has a quick and slow version. Speed is the difference.  's,t' leads to quick t1 as with evading into it or using 'rush' (lvl2).  The tactic is square spam while watching for a flinch (stop with a cancel into 's,t' for a guaranteed bounce) or counter (defend yourself and begin with the square spam while hunting for the stagger again).  Simple as that.  Otherwise, get them during their spawn.  Sometimes you can catch them off guard when they aren't fully on-screen (range game).

>preferred way

In the fight noted?  OH redirection if I recall right.  Might also be air OS (guiding that takes practice). This for PAIN.  Otherwise, Punt.

>unfeasible

Pretty much.  And GoW:A found a way to be even worse.  Without upgrades, you don't have any options.  Partial petrification is gone too.  Even with upgrades you have crap for options.

>Zf

Good for knocking him out of the air.  PR is better for the i-frames.  I can't recall if it causes orb drops like Artemis R1 thrusts are so good for (in S1).

>video

Likely the collaboration video with Shin.

---

The Architect's Tomb

Architect's Room:Interior A *hallway*

-Through the ceiling here?  It didn't finish them off though, I trust.  I don't recall a ring-out option here.

Architect's Room:Rooftop *Desert King/Super Seeds*

-The CDK can be ignored.  Indeed they are 'super'.  More HP, but bugged 'grown AI' and even worse 'birthed AI'.  It's funny.  Also, dropping down to the area below where you fight CDKs after this and working your way back glitches them into shrinking out of Breeder state if I recall correctly.  Not necessary, but neat.  The AI boundary is important though.  Having OS damage of Seeds glitch and deal no damage can suck while you're using the OS whoring method for grab damage and collisions.  Having them grown up during OS kill is frustrating (waste of time).  With air OS infinite on Breeders (and other options), you can make sport of them eventually and even hurt others, but it is the first sample of what an infinite grab dealing obnoxiously small amounts of damage would be like (well before later entries ran with this *with much less fun to look at air OS antics on a huge target that probably shouldn't be open to this sort of silliness*).  Petrification serves you well, but you won't need that for PAIN.

Architect's Room:Exterior

-Sadly, no ring-out despite what you would think.  If you get a Breeder for before here, you can ring it out, yes.  CDKs are being protected by an invisible wall so you can't force them over.  Sucks.  You can fight from the opened up area in the ground with a pressure plate for cheap antics (better with Artemis thrusts).  Not sure if petrification there would be viable.  Never tried it.  They don't attack you well down there.  Spirit chip, was it?  Plume chip locks better.  With some positioning of the crane and the statue, you can mostly funnel them if not block their path.  It is a shame, but you cannot use the crane to crush them as myself and other vets have tried to do.  I think that would have been real f***ing neat-o.  Think of guiding it from above as the Cyclops wander about and stare up as their heads cave in.  Swell.  As for their HP orb release, maybe.  I don't recall things as clearly after all this time and all the entries I have to remember.

Zeus' Temple:Interior *Harpy Conveyor Belt*

-Ah, the glitch with collision.  Annoying, yes?  Can get you killed.  You went back for the other Archers before finishing the Harpies?  You went with an old method then.  Of course, I usually favored staying on the first conveyor (not between them for the ability to move quickly between them and ignore crushers) so I had room to evade whore to prevent harpy bombing and get safe grabs while on a conveyor).  There's something like 65 Harpies here. A bit excessive.  Archers don't exactly respawn that much.  I'd have probably suggest 45 instead.  Enough that AoH at MAX with 200 units might not quite entirely buy the fight for you, but damn close (as was probably intended in balancing along with PR antics *RotG usage might have been expected so they had extra for the infinite magic antics of lvl5 BoC, so that might explain the unusually high number*).

Certainly a neat fight with fire traps, crushers and conveyors.  GoW:A wishes it had something neat like this to offer up in terms of a combat scenario.  It is sorely lacking in this department as well as interesting foes by and large.  I like Manticore for the most part, but felt it was squandered.  Even more so for lack of Arena.  I would have wanted to pair Manticore with at least one Chimera.  Of course, with how the combat in this game turned out, it might have been more frustrating than I originally expected.

*get the box and cart it along a bit*

The Underworld

Hades, Above the River Styx

-Practice helps.  It is almost time for Punt.

Hades Rollers

-Understandable.  I certainly wouldn't bother hunting down the Archers in the optional chest areas.

Hades Elevation

*cross*

-(Level 1) For a sample of bad checkpoints, imagine the 'save point' at the start was the checkpoint and you had to clear this area all the way to the start of Hades Pillars rather than starting here at the bottom of 'Elevation'. Stupid s*** like that happens in GoW:A.  Making you re-do platforming/navigation and even puzzles to continue to a fight you restarted on for one reason or another.  This with visual cues and cutscenes you cannot skip to really rub it in.

As for this fight, 360 tosses pretty well cover it.  Slaps the Hades Minotaur right over.  If you didn't notice, these look like Tormentors and have their moves, but don't defend from hit properties like them or have as much HP.  They're just a straight downgrade of that foe with a cute cosmetic effect (Hades Satyrs are like that with more orb drops on death).

-(Level 2 right) That works, but 3x air OS is easy too.  Also, Punt.

-(Level 2 left) ...

-(Level 3) ...

*column 1*

-(Level 4) ...

-(Level 5) ...

*column 2*

Hades A

*Bridge of Hades*

-(11 Hades Satyrs) Punt pretty well solves the fight outside PAIN.  You're the first I've seen describe circle with the first letter in it rather than the shape.  You can punt them any direction, but don't do so at 11 or 1 o'clock as they might land on platforms you cannot reach until the fight ends.  Also, 4 o'clock might have been another problem area, but you can get over there.  There's no need to expand.  PAIN has some cheap tricks too, but not ring-out.  Chest collision abuse to split them up to make it easy.  If you fight with mashing, you will tire out from grabs. If you fight with skill, "...you will be truly tested." - Ares

Hades B

-Feels like they needed a proper enemy guantlet here and maybe the return of simplified versions of previous defeated bosses.  A boss guantlet with re-skinned foes.  Perhaps the Hydra Twins and Hydra King first (the twins pulling you around in the fight with the 'King' head), then Medusa with the three Desert Sirens (again set to wander non-aggressively until hit *but even hits from Medusa provoke them to wake-up*) which would be an easy fight in vanilla especially and finally stage 4 Minotaur with only ground AI (with maybe slightly reduced total HP *25% less maybe*).

The Hydras Twins would be fine with their normal HP, but maybe combine the amount the King has between mini-games then reduce that 25% while having 'Twins' just die outright downwhere (regeneration not working so as to not need a puzzle that isn't already designed into the area).  No need to change Medusa or the Desert Sirens.  They reach "O" quickly and damage kills aren't likely.  We cann't slap around the Desert Sirens, but you could ringout Medusa aside from the usual lock.  Medusa should be able to 3x petrify each non-aggressive Desert Siren pretty easily if you play your cards well (false OS provocation should also work).

It could have been a quick, neat boss close to Hades while recycling for lack of a new foe.  A guantlet of regular foes could be used too, but they insist on cosmetics...I suppose these bosses have to be re-skinned too anyway.  I guess the shape of the last platform would need to funnel more in the back and be perhaps a tiny bit longer going ahead to accomodate the AI of the foe.

If they were willing to put in the time, they could devise alternate puzzle means to kill these foes.  QTE is fine though.  Pandora's Guardian would probably be staggered, brutalized and made to be rung-out by this Kratos, while later versions (even in prequels) would manage to totally eviscerate him in some brutal sequence. *even if the Kratos in question was supposed to be weaker and less killed as with GoW:A*

*climb a rope after that tough fight against thin air*

Return to Athens

Destroyed Oracle Temple

-(lower) This whole section does that.

-(stairwell) To note it, AI boundary abuse applies.

-(upper) ...

-(hall) ...

*navigate to Ares*

Ares 1 (4,000HP)

-(100-75% HP) Indeed he returns lots of MP and HP orbs.  S1 isn't very defensive (but will still counter a double knockback with AoH plus some extra strong hit if you're not careful).  If you stay away, you provoke Hammertime.  Still not familiar with Artemis strings.  R1 thrusts suffice for this bit (it locks him down).  R1,s with Zf or block cancels.  You would want 'tricking' rather than having to block as Artemis has a delayed block and no parry.  Circle hits are stronger for this weapon.  What was your solution to when he did Hammertime?  There are many.

NOTE: "Ah, is that the best you can do?".

-(75-50% HP) He also defends more.  He spams flamethrower in this phase.  What did you do  to deal with it specifically?  Just let him push you around and stay away for Hammertime (or close the gap for more)?  If you put your back to a wall and keep him close, you can't push you away.  If you keep at range between openings, he can only use Hammertime.  If you force stuns during neutral stances, you can get him to keep countering which presents just enough opening to get hits in while he stops spamming flamethrower or Hammertime.

NOTE: "You are no warrior" followed by HAMMERTIME

-(50-25% HP) The fireballs are added.  Zf does take him out the air, but in PAIN you can't do that.  You can quick roll around or jump in place in one particular spot to ignore it.  I don't think spamming Artemis tricking works unless you time it.  He won't spam Flamethrower if using it at all beyond this point.  I think lost the dashing punch after the first phase.

NOTE: "Relent! You have already lost, spartan!"

-(25-0% HP) This is when he gains slow Hammertime (which he summons at close range rather than having to be provoked into a charge to quick Hammertime by you keeping too far away).

>no interested in clones

Just sampling them tells you it is no joke.  Really putting time in puts into perspective why we don't require it.  Ares2 is a joke if you pass them (same as vanilla VH).

>how you would have done

The tactic is clear enough.  It is known.  If you exploit, it is easier.  If you don', you're in for a test of might far beyond other section in the other GoW entries in any challenge condition.  As for Ares2, if you wish to share, by all means.  I can instruct on making him even easier.

>vanilla VH of GoWIII

I see.

>in this topic

Suits me.

>thanks

It is what we do when not busting chops or teaching ourselves with testing and running of challenges.  We care to share.  I've got business with vanilla H in GoW:A thanks to VH not counting for the trophy (which would irk me even more than the MP tutorial trophy that is not an option for me).  Then VH NG+ as I make the run skeleton.  VH NUR+, PAIN+, NGR+ NUR+ and NBR+ NUR+ follow for challenge runs and the suffering to be had with some of the fights (Shoulder of Apollo and ToA *W1* mostly).  Exceptions in PAIN and PAIN+ should be cute.  Such a pity about NG+ with forced MAX upgrades.  HP drain won't really shine like that if we can't have NUR (NER doesn't matter as HP drain can take care of that) conditions.  What a waste.  And Chapter Select is severely limited (to autosaves of a run you're already doing).  Not what I expected.  But then, little among the 'good' of GoW:A was all it could have been.

I'm gonna be doing my skeleton for my VH run of 3 here, but before I start I wanted to ask, what is the deal with the Titans? Even they're they're like 1000 feet tall or whatever they're pathetically weak and almost all of them are defeated by Poseidon alone. The titans ruled over the world before the Olympians, so shouldn't they have a similar set of abilities? The game portrays them as big fancy regular people who are easily defeated by just being pulled off the mountain with little resistance. Very disappointing after the build up from the ending of 2, where the Olympians were seemingly in grave danger with Kratos having the blade, and all the Titans storming Olympus before the Olympians even had a plan.

With all upgrades which weapon am I gonna get the most overall damage from? I'm pretty sure it's either the Cestus, or the Nemesis whip, but nothing would surprise me. Here is the skeleton now.

Mount Olympus

Gaia:Shoulder -Grabs into s to charge and do as much damage as possible, plus get a few ringouts. It's really annoying how the red orbs you get at this point do nothing, especially since the game is pretty short.

Gaia:Arm -same as before.

Leviathan 1

- (Standing 1) Is Leviathan what these things are technically called? I remember people referring to them as that when the game first came out, but them people started calling them Hippocampus, and I'm not sure which is the official name. I used stsssst until it attacked, when I used magic to make myself invulnerable. It did not take long before the next phase started.

(Ceiling) Easy. I stayed to one side and hit away with sss (I'm sure this is not the highest damage combo I could be using, but it hardly matters on such an easy fight). His attacks are telegraphed way in advance, giving me plenty of time to move out of the way to the other side.

(Wall) Similar to before, except that now he also uses a water spit attack that I was able to avoid without much trouble. I used ssss for this part.

(Standing 2) Exactly the same as before. I used stsssst until it attacked, and I used magic. I was able to get O prompt after my last magic use.

Mountainside:Exterior A -grabs into s for ramming

Mountainside:Exterior B -see above

Moutainside:Interior:Tomb of Ares -I used stsssst on the centaur, blocking when needed, and rammed the smaller guys (legionnaires?) into him. It was not long before I got the prompt and finished him off.

Gaia:Chest:Exterior

Leviathan 2

Stage 1 - All it does is either swipe at you with it's claws, or advance slowly and try to blast you with water. I chipped away at it's left foot from a safe distance until it came in close, then I used stssst combos to drive it back.

Stage 2 - Same as before except now it will directly spit water at you, and rear back to smash down on you. If it did either I used magic to avoid the damage.

Gaia:Chest:Interior - I grabbed them and rammed the others.

Gaia:Head

Poseidon

Stage 1 - The claws don't take very many hits to dislodge so I was able to get past this pretty fast. I used stssst combos on the claws, rolling away when the leviathans came down, and using magic when he did.

Gaia:Hand

Stage 2 - I stayed right next to him and got him with stssss combos, since that last t seems to make it unsafe. I blocked his normal attacks, and when he did he multiple stab with his trident I went to the top of Gaia's finger since I knew it was safe. When he did the single stab one I got as close as I could and used air attacks to get in a few hits.

Gaia:Head

Stage 3 - Same as stage 1. His magic is in a different pattern, but since I used my magic when he did it didn't matter.

River Styx

Swim

Realm of Hades

Hades Path -Grabbed these guys and tore them apart with t. It gives orbs, plus the ruthless kill. If I wasn't upgrading i'd just ram them all.

Palace of Hades:Exterior

(AoS Trial) Used OS into t on all of them for as many brutal kills as possible.

(Rope) grabbed them all for more brutal kills, You can get into a rhythm with the grabs where you won't get hurt.

Gorgon Serpent Chamber -Nothing much to note. Both gorgons used their stare early so I was able to shatter them with most of the minions.

Peirithous Puzzle -I parried all the cerberus' attacks and it didn't take long to get the prompt. Are you allowed to kill stuff on the cerberus in PAIN+? Once I got the bow I finished off the rest with fire and throws.

Harpy Chamber - I used grabs here, either on the ground or block plus grab to pull myself to them.

Underworld:Cliffside -Navigate

Three Judges:Lower *Trials of Erebus* - I don't even understand this trial. There are guys running around and hands come out of the ground and turn them to zombies. The hands can slap you but aside from that what is the threat or goal aside from just kill everything? - I only let 1 zombie touch the back and it turned into a basic sentry that i rammed into the others. I need a new safe way to launch for this game since st doesn't work any more. Am I right in thinking the vets did not approve of the change of t from a slow double hit to that X attack? -I let the gorgon from the first wave stay alive the whole time and killed everything by reflecting it's beam and crushing them.

Three Judges:Upper:Section B - Just some minotaurs. The explosives took care of most of their health so it just took a few slaps to get prompts on them

Caverns of Hades:Bridge - These guys are easy I just grabbed for the launch and got them with OH. Upgraded blades to level 2.

Caverns of Hades:Bramble Vent Puzzle - See above.

Caverns of Hades:Hades Arms - Got them with air CoC to get as many hits and orbs as possible.

Palace of Hades:Outer Atrium -These statue guys aren't very hard. I just blocked and hit them a few times. Since t has changed i'm no longer sure of my best combos with the blades so i mostly use just sss type of combos with a t to launch if it's safe enough.

Caverns of Hades:The Forge -Lever I didn't fight anyone here. In the forge I just talked to Hephaestus, pulled the switch, and left.

Caverns of Hades:Gazebo

-(Dogs) grabs all around either into collisions or brutal kills.

Hades Path

RoS Trial -Grabbed them all into rips.

Palace of Hades:Exterior

(Twin Hades Cerberus)I personally always felt this fight was pretty hard. I mostly killed them with s combos, with a little bow chipping in there. All their attacks except their grab and stomp can be parried, and I believe they only use the stomp when 1 head is left. I used magic a few times too since there is a magic chest in the next room.

Palace of Hades : Door of Hades -All grabs into collisions or rips for brutal kills.

Palace of Hades:Lower Chamber -Just a few harpies. I used grabs or blocking grabs to grab them from the air.

Palace of Hades:Mezzanine - I took out the dogs first, using them for collisions, and the minotaurs once they were dead. I can't kill these as fast as ones from the first game since I don't know of an infinite to kill them. They're still quite easy, being quite susceptible to blocking grabs to knock them back.

Palace of Hades:Upper Chamber -not much to note. I used grabs against everything and tore them when possible.

Palace of Hades:Lower Chamber *again* - Just some harpies. I should note i sometimes use t0 to get a a few grounded for a grab.

Palace of Hades:Upper Chamber *again* -Finish puzzle

Palace of Hades:Throne Room

Hades

S1P1 - (Stand) Does Hades even know that his wife tried to kill all the people he's angry at Kratos for killing, plus himself? Easy start to a fun fight. His only 2 attacks that I know of are his 2 hit combo with the claws, which I parried and retaliated, and his stomp which he telegraphs well in advance. I rolled out of range or tricked through that.

S1P2 - (Wall) He will still do the 2 hit combo from before, which i parried, and he will also grab you if you get close, and slam his claws down from the wall, both of which I rolled away from, either back for the grab, or to the sides for the slam. The other thing he does is swing his claws widely high or low which is telegraphed in advance, and I'd either jump over and get in a few hits, or stand on the ground and get in a few hits.

S1P3 - (Meat) Not much to this part. I just hit the meat over and over with ssssss combos.

S2P1 - (Stand) Same as before, but now he will occasionally grab you and try to steal your soul, and has a new attack where he digs his claws in the ground and pulls them up at you. I never had him do the grab this run, but it can be tricked through, and if he hits you it only does a tiny bit of damage if you break it quickly enough. His other new attack can be parried and countered to break the combo. If I missed the parry I rolled to the side since that attack breaks block.

S2P2 - (Wall) Similar to before except he'll now pull souls out of the walls that can be reflected back with the golden fleece. Easy enough to get through.

S2P3 - (Meat) Same as before.

S3 - (Wall) I saved my magic and rage for this part since there is a checkpoint after and the second half of the fight is easier in my opinion. After using all my magic I activated rage and whacked him a few times to get the O prompt.

S4 - (Tug-of-War) A short and straightforward section. It's easy to see where his hits are going to land and to avoid them. The only times I took damage were when I was concentrating on backing up, which really isn't necessary since there's no penalty for getting pulled too close except for having to press the button a few seconds.

S5 - I grabbed the guys and killed them by tearing. When Hades came out I whacked away with square combos. All of his attacks have to be avoided, but they're all telegraphed in advance and easy to avoid. I used the grapple points to swing away from his breath attack. I'm not sure if you have to do that or not, but I always did.

(CoH) Palace of Hades:Soul Summon Trial - Killed them with grabs and tears.

Cavern of Hades:The Forge

Cavern of Hades:Gazebo - The statue guys I fought like before, blocking and countering often. Once the dogs came out I focused on grabbing them for collisions and brutal kills. I finished off the statues the same as before, just blocking and hitting when possible. A little more finesse will be required for challenge runs, especially the more difficult versions of the statues.

Hades Path *yet again* - Grabbed and moved on

Olympia : Door

-Cast Gaia down she would have been a liability anyways - These sentries are very easy without the dogs, but if one of those dogs latches onto me i'm dead almost every time. To remedy this I used magic on the group of dogs a couple of times to clear them out, then continued fighting. I use mostly parries into counters then smack them around a little with the blades until I get a prompt for collisions. On later runs I'm gonna use mostly ring outs here.

Olympia:Cave -Navigate

Olympia:Building A - The first wave is easy enough. Just like the fight before I slapped them around until I was able to parry into a counter. This also seems a great place for ringouts. -(Centaur) Not too bad. If you go towards the back where the edge is cracked you can lure just a few to come to you. They're the same, but they have a new attack, but it can be blocked so not a big change. Once i cleared most of them out fighting the centaur was simple enough, the qte is always the same if he tries to grab you and you can parry his close range attack. I just countered and attacked with the blades until he was defeated.

Olympia:Ballista

Chimera

(Snake) I upgraded my blades to level 3 before this fight so it went pretty fast. The snake will spit poison, which is telegraphed, and bite you, which is a bit harder to avoid. It wasn't long before I got the prompt.

(Lion) Stayed close and parried his swipes, while rolling away if he spits fire.

(Goat) Here I used magic twice then rage to finish it off quickly. On harder runs this will become more of a ranged fight with emphasis on being careful since his fire breath is really damaging.

Olympia:Chasm -Harpy ride

Olympia:Building B:Exterior:Balcony - Parries and counters, plus some basic combos with the blades makes this fight pretty trivial.

Olympia:Building B:Interior:Hallway - There are quite a few of them, but you can clear out most by grabbing the unarmored ones and ramming them into everyone. Once they're dead the rest can be finished off without much threat. This is also a good place to use fire arrows, since they're all bunched up together.

Olympia:Building C:Wall

-Navigate

Olympia:Eos Cave Door -Once the cyclops came down I was able to get a prompt quickly. It's attacks are all telegraphed, and not difficult to avoid in general. Once I got onto it I used a single t attack to break the shields and used s attacks to hit as many as possible. I was able to get some ringouts. When the cyclops died there was only 1 left who i finished off with just a few hits.

Eos Cave:Corridor 1 - Grabbed and tore for brutal kills.

Eos Cave:Corridor 2 - same as above.

Eos Cave:Catwalk 1 - I used the Bow to set the harpies on fire from afar until they got close. once they closed the gap my army of sparta took care of most of them. I finished up the last few with the bow since they were hard to see.

Eos Cave:Corridor 3 - grabs into tears.

Eos Cave:Rope - I was able to get them into that grab cycle I was talking about earlier. It's hard to explain but I imagine you're familiar with what i'm talking about.

Eos Cave:Corridor 4A - grabbed into tear.

Eos Cave:Corridor 4B - same as above.

Eos Cave:Broken Bridge -Harpy ride

Eos Cave:Cliffside - I grabbed into OH infinite for the kills, while watching the other closely to make it as safe as possible.

Eos Cave:Catwalk 2 - I used the same strategy from before with grabbing into OH, while watching closely for when to stop so I didn't get hit. The archers I defeated by destroying the explosives.

Chain of Balance:Icarus Vent 1 -These were a waste of the game developer's time. They should have spent the effort on some more fights or exchanging skorpius for a real boss. I don't know how to give a good account of how I did this part, I avoided the stuff as it came at me. It becomes second nature once you've played the game a few times.

Chain of Balance:Scaffolding -Navigate

Chain of Balance:Icarus Vent 2 -

The Caverns:Box 1 -Burn bramble.

The Caverns:Box 2 - A really fun fight. I was able to get some ringouts here, although unintentional since I don't think ringouts give red orbs. I was able to ringout with s6, HR, and blocking into counters. I don't think OH redirection exists in this game. Any other notable ringout options here? These minotaurs are more difficult, but still not very hard. I did a little bow chipping, but mostly knocked them around with HR and used basic s combos with the blades. When the Cerberus came I used it's t attack to kill most of the minotaurs, once it was dead I finished off the last couple of ones with some magic and more HR.

The Caverns:Box 3 -Listen to Hermes then get up the Chain of Balance

Chamber of the Flame -Unveil 3 frescos, read them and watch the cutscenes

The Olympian Citadel A -Proceed to the wall from the walk way, slide down, cross the grapple point and land on the burning, breaking bridge.

-(Bridge) Jumped up as fast as possible, dispatching the people with a single hit of square to save time. -Pursue Hermes. - grabbed and tore them. It's interesting the sentries are killing the servants of Olympus for some reason. -Grab hold the Crane, pull the lever, cross the gap, make your way across another breaking bridge. - A bunch of grabs mostly. the people around make it difficult to hit an enemy with HR, so I stuck to grabbing the dogs, and then the harpies.

-Pursue Hermes past the portcullis. Use the catapult to reach Athena's Statue.

Grand Vestibule:Lower

Hermes - Here's a fight I'm gonna have to practice for later runs. He has little health so I've always beaten him by rolling around and getting a few slaps or t0 in when I can, watching for the QTE to come up, and hitting him when he slips off the wall. I also used magic a few times. I'll do a little research before I fight him again.

Grand Vestibule:Upper - grabbed and ripped them.

The Olympian Citadel B - This is a good place for ringouts, although I am trying to avoid those on my current run. The sentries were easy enough to take care of with standard tactics of blocking and attacking. I was glad to see these Cyclopes back from the first game, it made me wish there would be Desert Kings too. Once the 2 Cyclopes came out I used magic a few times, along with some bow chipping since you have to roll a lot. I upgraded the blades to level 4 after the fight was over.

Upper Chamber of the Flame - Just some archers, grabbed them.

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Hallway A - Is there any way to make the sirens visible without using the head? These guys died pretty quickly with my blades being level 4. I used HR liberally since they seem quite vulnerable to it. Once the enemies grouped up I hit them with my magic. Didn't take long to finish them off.

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Muse Music Box. A rhythm based puzzle? Rhythm games are about as far removed from God of War as it gets. It doesn't bother me, but I'm surprised Ascension didn't include a typing tutor puzzle. -Puzzle

Got to the evaluation.

>deal with Titans

Nameless fodder.  Even among the named cases, they were getting their asses beat.  Size is not everything.  Size alone is not power in fantasy.  Magic counts for much and Olympians are vastly more capable in skill and magic if not tools.  Some are truly strong physically as well though.  Titans are mostly brutes that don't even make us of their magic like they could and lack tools.

>most overall damage

NW has better set-ups and effective use of the Tirades can probably out-damage Cestus.  Both don't get good modifier increases with upgrades (just 40%), but Tirade lengths increase a great deal (better damage potential and orb milking) while you also gain some good specials.  Cestus at base is already as good as you'll need it to be.  NW stands to gain more.  CoH gains more damage from its lower base, but not enough to match the growth of the BoE.  CoH specials are pretty crap and spells are sort of 'misses' by and large (though they can be used well, there isn't much reason to use them over AoS *which offers i-frames too*).  Their targeting and sometimes the cost prove too high.  Its normals are nice though.  BoE gains good damage and good specials while making AoS better.  Bow upgrades just make Inferno 'fire' deal more damage (not worth your time).  HoH just upgrades 'flash' (not flare) damage, which I don't suspect you'll use much.  HB just gain 'jest' for the charged ground dash which has neat glitching attached to it, but for this run, you probably won't need to worry about it (though the Cestus glitch combos nicely with 'jest' for an amusing effect).

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Mount Olympus

Gaia:Shoulder

-BR whoring, I see.  Suits me.  You can manual aim tosses out of BR which is useful along with collisions, knockback and i-frames.  Rushing into walls for instant kills means more in GoW:A, but it is still useful here.  As for EXP orb antics, it isn't the first time they pulled that stunt (GoWII did it too).  They probably should have made it possible to farm the souls in the Styx to get the orbs back (and even HP/MP lost) after having cleared Hades.  But only in the amount lost.

Gaia:Arm

-Might have used more ring-outs here.  Rip/tear works fine too.  In this entry it gives EXP (unlike GoW1).

Leviathan 1

- (Standing 1) That is what the devs called it.  In reality, they are Hippocampus and people like me were the ones that got the community to call it what it is and not by a name of a Christian sea beast that looks nothing like this.  The name in myth is the latter. The name the devs gave as a pet title is the former.  The game doesn't really call them anything (extensions of Poseidon).

You have the MAX moveset with BoA with MIN damage.  Use the MAX moveset while you can.  's,t,t,t' is fastest.  You don't need magic i-frames here.  Just stick to one side, see breath, evade to the other side and quick roll towards his body on that side and continue the attack when the push is no longer in effect.

(Ceiling) Square whoring is the best damage option you have here (sadly).  The  center has a spot he cannot hit, but it is really precise, so just staying close the the center and minimizing movement to either side needed to clear his attacks works best.

(Wall) Square whoring works fine.  If you can get good with attack movement on the wall, you can dodge while attacking.  Just don't use quick movement during the camera shot leading to the start as you'll fall off the arm and die instantly (glitch).

(Standing 2) Aside from his new attacks, but the tactic doesn't have to change much.  Magic spam solves some of his attack options without forcing you to make distance.  So that helps.  Might as well use magic while you've got it, right?  You can bother with alternative methods when the need arises in later runs.  Keeps things fresh.

Mountainside:Exterior A

-...

Mountainside:Exterior B

-...

Moutainside:Interior:Tomb of Ares

-You can reverse the Charges to open him up and even glitch "O" in later encounters (ring-out for the Olympia encounter).  BR chip works well.  The fourth wall (camera in foreground) is a ring-out for the Sentries.  Sadly, not for the Centaur (that would be too good).

>Business with Ascension That sounds like a lot of work. Did you make all those other run skeletons?

>Conveyor belt archers grab glitch can kill you Over 50% of my deaths on this part can be attributed to this. It's also funny to see Kratos running around fighting while the YOU ARE DEAD screen comes up when he dies from the crusher wile grabbing a harpy.

>Neat Fight It really is. Normally a fight against nothing but archers and harpies would be easy no matter how many they throw at you. This however is one of the more difficult and fun fights in the game.

>Ascension fights I also liked the Manticore, but you only ever fight 2 the whole game and one is injured before you start the fight. I expected to have to fight 2 later on in the games, and the Chimera was wasted. I only remember 1 the whole game and it looked worse than it did in 3 somehow. You can't really see the injuries as you stab it like in 3. I don't remember having to redo puzzles after dying, but I'll replay that game when the time is right.

>What could have been I'd have love to see a boss in Hades. Rehashing the old bosses would make sense, they would have died and gone to Hades. I'd have preferred a whole new boss, but it is what it is. I think 3 was the disappointing in this aspect. If I could I would alter the following

Stheno in the Garden of Hera. Her inclusion in this game should have been a given, but I think this would be the ideal place to put her. Hera could have put her there to ensure Kratos dies in the maze. Her head could have been another item used with the third meter, just make it so you have to have fully upgraded meter to use it on anything threatening.

Tartarus was greatly under utilized. It's just a few fights then a cop out fight against Cronos. I would have liked to see a boss fight with Morpheus, who would have been imprisoned by Zeus after the CoO incident. He could taunt Kratos about being the only being who was capable of ending Kratos's visions, being the god of dreams and all. He could say his only chance at redemption is to kill you and even if he dies Kratos's visions will not end. A scene with Rhea would also have worked well. Pandora is really the only sympathetic character as it is and having Rhea would add some more tragedy (Imprisoned by her own son who she risked everything to save, etc) Mayhaps some connection with the Cestus since her symbol is a pair of lions. I'd also like a real fight with Cronos instead of just "go here, go there, you win"

The caves after the garden have almost no story, just a bunch of fighting and a terrible boss fight. Skorpius should have been replaced with Polyphemus, who was allowed to live in the caves of Olympus because of his father Poseidon, but he now is told by Zeus he must kill Kratos if he wishes to stay in the graces of the gods. I would have him as a huge hairy cyclops who walks on his knuckles like a gorilla. There could be some big flaming sticks to stab him in the eye, and some sheep maybe for health. There was a little story with Daedalus, but that character was completely pointless. I know they got Malcom Macdowell and wanted him in there, but they should have had him play Hermes. His british accent and shakespearian delivery could have made a snooty stuck up Hermes, much better than the bizarre child in an adult's body we ended up with.

>Ares I know I don't know the best ways to deal direct damage with the blade, I used it mostly for ringouts and shattering stoned enemies. For the flamethrower I just blocked and let it push me away. If I did Ares 2 my strategy is to block and stay away. You can get some hits in when he teleports to summon the stones that smash you, and if you hit him while he's yelling at you you can get a bunch of hits in, ending with a sword struggle that does a lot of damage.

>a lot of work

It is.

>make the other run skeletons

Yes.

>normally easy no matter what

An example of making the environment an enemy and ally.  An interesting place to fight can take even trash to another level.

>Manticore wasted

Yep.  Arena could have fixed that.  There wasn't one.

>Chimera looked odd

It was green and had ice abilities that were inferior. This while not fighting the same as in GoWIII (it was made even less capable).

>can't see the injuries

They made cut backs.  The talk of higher graphics is a joke.  They sacrificed even that on the alter of MP.

>don't remember redoing puzzles

Never said they were complicated puzzles.  Recall that after testing the AoU in combat, there is a bridge to repair and then you fight a Siren with two Shield Satyrs?  If you restart there, you go back to before fixing the bridge.  You have to navigate to it, heal it, watch the visual cue, rush to the fight, watch the visual cue and then begin the fight.  Little things add up quickly.

>a new boss

As would I, but I understand the need to recycle.  Just do it tastefully.  Bayonetta managed this.  It is the marriage of GoW with DMC.  Pity the Harpy Boss (Upper Pandora's Guardian) got dropped.  Would have been neat.

>Stheno in Garden of Hera

Technically, she makes more sense in the Caves of Olympus (first visit so we aren't super far in the game before having the spell *that will never happen again*).

>third meter

If it is regenerating, it would be too easy to game break.  Even without that, this entry had partial petrification as an exploit.  If the third meter required more chests with more items to collect...but that aside, if it were to work like MP, but with it as a the only use for it, that would be nice for vets, but casuals don't really put such things to work.  Would there be chests and orbs for filling the meter or what?

>Tartarus

The depiction was terrible too.

>Cronos

A glorified level.

>Morpheus

No more worthy than Hypnos or Thanatos (twins).  Small time.  But if it means another deity to kill as a proper boss, so be it.

>visions

Dream concerns?  Kratos sees them even while awake.  He would be a fool to think that would help, but then...Kratos IS a fool.  By this logic, we should kill Hypnos too.

>Rhea

She didn't matter much after her role in myth played out and GoW treated her the same.  Not sure what she could even do to be relevant.

>imprisoned

Why would Zeus do this?  He didn't in myth.  Fear make him think she might bone again and have a son better than he?

>proper fight with Cronos

Not possible with the size difference.  If we were a full Olympian, it would still be such that only an environmental fight would be likely, though a skilled team could manage to make it a technical fight with that much of the gap closed.  'Hope' is retconned into being the power that allowed that huge state in GoW1.  That would be the only solution I could offer up.

>connection with Cestus

Nemean Lion.

>bunch of fighting

Suits me.

>terrible boss

But not this.  Skorpius is loathed. Not just for being a giant bug that gives nothing, but for being very poorly designed.

>Polyphemus

Better save for an Odyssey after the Trojan War.  Argus would work as a mini-boss class foe in the dark if not a boss, but they dropped him.

>huge hairy cyclops

One could sooner manage that with one of the Primordial Cyclops (that we still haven't seen in GoW).  Granted, they are meant to be a bit more sophisticated than a gorilla.  They crafted the items of the gods before Hephaestus (and Apollo killed one or more of them *I forget the details*).

>pointless

I didn't like his 'Labyrinth' either.  A cube rip-off that was poorly realized.

>the Hermes we got

A silly ass, he was.

>Ares2

>stay away until he teleports for free hits

>slaps during roar for lock-up

An old approach.  Alternatively, you can stay in his face without locking up or letting him use unblockables.  It just becomes a matter of blocking and land a few hits (repeated until he dies).

---

I'll have to continue the evaluation later.  Got rounds to make, grocery shopping to do, etc.

Bayonetta I also like that game except for those novelty levels like the one on the bike. The music gets old really fast too. I like how this game changes the enemy layout with increased difficulty. If they ever make another God of War game I would like to see this sort of feature. I'm a big fan of DMC3 too.

>Stheno's hypothetical head I didn't think it through very much really, all that stuff was just some random ideas I had, nothing I'd put much thought into. This would probably work better if they disconnected the spells from the weapons and it could work like the Head of Eurayle.

>Morpheus I just used him because he's part of the lore already and he's never shown, only mentioned. Some people might enjoy getting to see what he looks like, but it's fine as it is.

>Rhea In the real mythology we know what happens to her, but these games only follow the actual myths loosely, not that I know very much about it myself. As for her fate in God of War it's left unknown, but Gaia does say Zeus betrayed all the Titans for the sins of just one. This is just some conjecture though, probably half truths and falsehoods. She wouldn't actually have to do anything, just give a little exposition to give the player some more incentive to dislike Zeus. I would have preferred her over Daedalus myself anyhow. Kratos is pretty much a full on villain protagonist in this entry though, so it's fine how it is.

>novelty levels

Understandable.  They're amusing...to a point.  I don't like being ranked for them and they drag on a bit too long.

>Platinum's approach to enemy layout

That and adjusting higher settings in MANY ways.

>like to see that for GoW

That would force my hand with writing down the enemy set-up in every fight on all conditions.  I can't stand the idea of not knowing what is going on for each condition should I be asked for aid.

>DMC3

The only entry I'd like to hear noted, really.  I'm still trying to find love for DMC1 and DMC4, but it just isn't happening.

>work like EH

So long as they copy the balancing perfectly for cost/potency while making foes adhere to the GoWII system.  From there, they can see about fixing Gorgon Blast.  If they must strip it of i-frames, so be it, but I advise NOT doing that for Gorgon Rage or Gorgon Flash firing.  Other spells give i-frames for casts, this should too (small i-frame window).  Just not for Stare.  Blast might warrant it too, but if improved with homing and more potency (to match Flash), it should have a drawback.

>see what he looks like

I'm tempted to kill him just for being overshadowed by Persephone.  That's pathetic.

>loosely

Very true.

>half truths and falsehoods

As Athena warned us about her.  The verbatim, as it happens.

>incentive to dislike Zeus

He's a dick.  Wouldn't take much.

>Daedalus

If only we got a proper Labyrinth.  What a waste.

>villain

Suits me.  Not many of those.  Not too many 'macho' guys that are all rage (or sadness) all the time.  Very emotional and unstable, this one.  When revenge on others is done, it is time to turn that blade on himself.

NOTE: I'm pretty well caught up with PSU.  I'll certainly be done with that tomorrow.  I'll check your run before work.  Aryan will have videos before oto long (to add to my backlog as with Deeb).  Then I'll tend to GFAQs.

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Gaia:Chest:Exterior

Leviathan 2

Stage 1 - So leftside chip.  Though an easy fight, there are a good variety of approaches that might prove even more to your liking.  I can share if that interests you.  Or, you can just view my run coverages here or elsewhere: http://www.gow3forums.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=4440  *you need to join up to see these*

Stage 2 - I like going to the back of the platform to bait crash (and be outside effective range *still have to leap over the shockwave*) to set the camera straight while forcing him to use one attack that leave shim plenty open for Spirit whoring.

Gaia:Chest:Interior

-...

Gaia:Head

Poseidon

Stage 1 - Still should be using 's,t,t,t' unless you're purposefully gimping yourself to mimic MIN upgrades.  The back-left corner is immune to his claw attack and gliding over towards the camera works well for his 'wrath'.  I-frame abuse of DR works fine though.

Gaia:Hand

Stage 2 - I developed a lot of different handlings for this fight.  In more recent times I refined old advances to make sport of him.  Still, an easy fight even with blocks and punishes.  Good that you at least chip during the long stab though the triple stab isn't being taken advantage of at all.  To help, I'll give BoE PAIN+ coverage (old run) and then the specialized Athena (At) and Apollo (Ap) cases (pay attention to the Apollo tactics if nothing else *mostly regarding triple stab, better informed if you read the BoE PAIN+ for more elaboration on the basics*): 

"A variety of approaches exist, but I go with another where I'm just provoking something and reacting with a safe, damaging punish. I don't really care to be in his face and evasion trick his punch or swipe anymore (or even just block/parry). That is an option. You should never see his grab attempt. I go to the bottom-left area where he has trouble hitting us and just hold block while waiting.

He only has two choices when you're in position: full stab or 3x stab. If he goes for the former, you can either rush to the wall and get on (do so but keep low) and 't,t,t' towards him so some of the hits lands. About three of these then get down and try for 's,t,t,t' as he withdraws before returning to the starting position noted. The alternative handling is s,t,t,t along the wall and aim for only Spirit to land near his body (through the wall). Do this 2-3 times before closing in for a direct application like in the other handling.

If he goes for triple stab, get by the wall and wait for him to pull out the second stab and prep for the third. The instant he pulls out, you may rush in with an evade then go for 2x s,t,t,t before returning to the starting position."

"*At* Long stab? Sit tight I suppose. Maybe DR just outside his hit range. Triple stab? DR through the first then square whore. Punch/slap? Parry and revenge (or keep up light attack pressure). *Ap* Long stab? The likes of Spirit will due. Triple? I've amended this a bit. You can keep close to him during the first stab (just right of his hit box), then run under the first stab and a bit away from him (narrowly avoiding the second stab's hit box) and work up 't,t,t' (3x). With the ability to roll into 's,t,t,t' in regular runs, this makes for one advancement born of this run's tinkering. Punch/slap? Evade through (or parry) and 't,t,t'. You can bait his stab and 3x stab then get high on the wall and use t1 and t2 of the wall combos to chip him, but that's slow. Another method is to climb all the way up (to just after the wall climb) to land t0/t3 from above (2x 's,t,t,t or 2x ground TR and other such things). You can, from this position, double jump over his grab, but there isn't enough time for Spirit (even with 's,t,t,t') while staying up there between grabs without getting grabbed yourself. Just using 's,s,t' (landing just t0 each time) and leaping over his grab over and over is kind of meh though."

Gaia:Head

Stage 3 - Perhaps you'll care in PAIN+.  Perhaps not.

River Styx

Realm of Hades

Hades Path

-Rip/tear with Torso rip, was it?  BR to toss suits me.  Not sure why this entry encouraged the instant kill with orb drops and a special kill bonus even without having 10+ hits.  The GoW1 system of no EXP for the quick option and the bonus for 10+ hits before the OS kills begin on trash was a better balance.  GoW1 and GoWII just seem better thought out titles in general even as new entries add a few things of worth all their own.

Palace of Hades:Exterior

(AoS Trial) Or you could just spam AoS with infinite MP while that is still an option.

(Rope) To note it, the highest bonus for ropes is when they grab you and you reverse it.  Too bad we can't easily and relliably bait that, eh?  I believe it gives you the Ruthless Kill bonus for +25EXP.  This is VH NUR+, yes? It's hard to keep it all straight with multiple runners in different runs.

Gorgon Serpent Chamber

-Using the Gorgons to reverse their stare on the trash is expected of settings like PAIN or lower.  PAIN+ is where it varies.

Peirithous Puzzle

-You are allowed to ride beasts and kill using them, yes.  And it is encouraged that you do this.  Just not allowed for NGR+ NUR+ unless forced (like it is here).  You can lure this Mongrel beyond his AI boundary to get lots of cheap hits on him for "O".  They have low HP, so that is nice.  Not so in GoW:A.  I want to hate them to death for not releasing a guide with the difficulty percentiles, costumes percentiles, some damage values and pretty much all beast values (HP, resistance, EXP drops, etc.).  I don't need that kind of extra work because they're lazy c***s.

Harpy Chamber

-Works fine.  Also, AI boundaries for this optional fight.  Probably ring-out, but I don't recall bothering to try for it.  Bow spam is merciless.

Underworld:Cliffside

-Navigate

Three Judges:Lower *Trials of Erebus*

-That's all it is. Best to let them all convert and then begin killing as it seems to want a certain number of Humans to convert to Lost Souls (for you to kill) to allow that to end and you to just clear out the Hades Hands to be done with this non-issue fight.

-With the basics, your only 'safe' option is unsafe.  T has no i-frames during pursue,  but that's what you've got.  't1' suffices for a bounce, but that won't work well on many targets that can be launched.  Letting a Lost Soul become a Sentry can be useful for BR whoring on the other Lost Souls or even the Minotaur.  Just recall that killing a Minotaur and then letting a Lost Soul convert causes a new Minotaur to spawn.  You're correct in thinking vets did not like the new medium 't1'.  We liked that casuals would be stuck with slow t1 for not knowing the system well and vets would be styling with quick t1.  Leveling the playingfield to make it worse so they can feel better about themselves simply pissed us right the f*** off.  Sort of like how we were denied evade into quick t1 or quick T so often.  GoW:A got rid of quick/slow T and made just quick T while leaving it weak until giving a slight boost at lvl3.

-Good call.

Three Judges:Upper:Section B

-Alternatively, ring them out between Section A/B or Section B/C (gaps).

Caverns of Hades:Bridge

-Lots of options, but Fiends are simple.  Ah, so this is vanilla VH.  lvl2 BoE noted.  You can now parry counter (use for Hades S2P1 to better control him). CoC is just silly, so don't use seriously unless you're dicking around in easy fights.  You'll be nearly at lvl3 BoE by the time you're done with Hades.  Just aim for lvl5 BoE.  Beyond that...maybe upgrade NW to lvl5 to have some fun with Tirades and the good specials.  Cestus is fine at lvl1, CoH spells are too much trouble to waste time with for this run and the items really don't need the upgrade (though Boots gain 'jest' and the glitch for it with Cestus might amuses you for shield users).

Caverns of Hades:Bramble Vent Puzzle

-...

Caverns of Hades:Hades Arms

-To be expected.  Might have been worth it to OS kill those that it allows you to though.  The flat bonus of EXP is different from EXP orbs.  No penalty for it unlike the orbs on VH.

Palace of Hades:Outer Atrium

-You can use 't,s,t' 't,s,s...' or 't,s,s,s,s,t' if not just square whoring (even classic 's,s,t').  This said, bait them to either AI boundary (their charge takes them over the stairs) and get laods of free hits while they slowly walk towards their territory.  Talos are very easy.  To note it, later, there are 'water pools' you can dump foes into.  Even a Bronze Talos if you lure it in.  Saves you the trouble of chipping 500HP.  Worth the time, but maybe you would rather get the hits for small EXP bonuses and do the OS kill or something.  You can always use such trickery for NUR+ and higher, eh?  Vary runs up.  Also, the final bit has Sentries you can use for BR whoring as collisions tools on the Stone Talos.

Caverns of Hades:The Forge

-...

Caverns of Hades:Gazebo

-(Dogs) ...

Hades Path

RoS Trial -...

Palace of Hades:Exterior

(Twin Hades Cerberus) Bow chip goes a long way all the way into NUR+ itself.  Their grab is rare and the stomp is uncommon.  I think your guess is right about the stomp.  Magic can help, but it is better to use AI boundary abuse because you're on VH and their aggression works against them rather than for them in cases where foes have taunts that can be easily baited.  Stick to the outskirts of the arena without being too close to them (attack range) and they'll start up a taunt to open themselves up to t0 or t3 hits (don't use other hits in the sequence) to knock them out of it and repeat.  No fighting on their side.  They're pretty well screwed.  You can chip with the bow, but that's more to force on to come and charge you if you want to reposition them a bit.  Doesn't do any good to have them both reach "O" at once as you can't use both before the other recovers HP.  You'll want to get AI boundary abuse down if you're to have an easy time with HCB.

-...

-Blocking grabs?  You refer to CG (Combat Grapple) aka HR (Hyperion Ram) *L1+O*, I presume.  AI boundaries, bow abuse, grab abuse, alt.OH, wall exploiting, savepoint/checkpoint abuse, etc.  Lots of options for a simple fight.

Palace of Hades:Mezzanine

-AI boundary abuse, wall collision abuse, ring-outs, collisions (meh), etc.  Clearing out Rabid Hounds helps.  Regarding Minotaur infinites, you can juggle them against walls if you launch them, but there is no air OS or OH infinite and both grab types deal weak damage in this outing for many foes (not all like in GoW:A).

Palace of Hades:Upper Chamber

-...

Palace of Hades:Lower Chamber *again*

-...

Palace of Hades:Upper Chamber *again*

-Finish puzzle

Palace of Hades:Throne Room

Hades

S1P1 - (Stand) They hardly take that into account.  If you asked them and told them why it is dumb, they would just say the 'Evils did it' or 'he's an ass' (if not 'don't over think it, it is a video game' *as they talk about how story matters to them*).

Certainly an easy start, yes.  With your current tactic, you should have control of S2P1 too.  When you lose the parry for control, that will become more of a challenge as the timing to evade becomes stricter on the stomp and your options for cheap tactics (like bow spam) evaporate.  In this phase, you can fairly easily run out of range of the stomp (rather than needing to bail quickly as tends to be the case with S2P1).  Jumping away works too.

S1P2 - (Wall) Ranged approaches with bow spam work well.  Fighting directly isn't great unless you abuse his flank while hugging the walls on either side.  There are good counters to all his tactics for close quarters.  Even his grab.  That doesn't necessarily concern you until PAIN+ though.

S1P3 - (Meat) ...

S2P1 - (Stand) He won't use the grab unless you're at range.  It is a good opening to leap over or get away from and bow spam.  The new attack is an extra ender to his normal combo and the last hit is unblockable (not merely a guard break or an air block would defend against it) *which reminds me that I need to test air blocks against certain guard breaking moves in GoW:A like Manticore tail stab, Chimera P2 melee hit 2, Siren slap, etc.*.  Parry counter is key to keeping him behaved.  The stomp is more dangerous than before.

S2P2 - (Wall) Return of souls simplifies things, yes.  For a melee approach.  Bow spam makes light of this.  For NUR+, consider that.  Learn the close-up approach in PAIN+.  Keep things interesting for yourself, yeah?

S2P3 - (Meat) ...

S3 - (Wall) Cheesd it, I see.  Reasonable enough.  To note it, his 'geyser' is exploitable for the long path to spirit landing hits as you move along in front of him.  There are things to watch out for though.  I believe the start of the attack counts as a hit on location and the summon of Mongrels is an unblockable (while the Mongrels are blockable).

NOTE: Sort of a pity he didn't use more of the soul options in the game or summon Lost Souls, Sentries, etc.  So much for the Lord of the Dead.  Still, a varied and well executed boss.

S5 - Probably better to stick to 's,s,t'.  Hard to say.  Just notice when the hit count isn't going up (he isn't taking damage) and his cues for breath (like grapples activating).  Time to get on the other side.

(CoH) Palace of Hades:Soul Summon Trial

-You could use spells, but it isn't that helpful.  It is an extra though as it'll attack as you grab others.  The only spell to let you summon on the go without any animation (as OSoO should have done as an item).

NOTE: OSoO not being a 'shadow' spell for a clone that acts as a doppleganger as in DMC3 or Bayonetta...is quite a disappointment.  Could have been really something.  They just aren't learning their lessons from their peers too well (or even from their past selves).

Cavern of Hades:The Forge

-Pass through

Cavern of Hades:Gazebo

- The statue guys I fought like before, blocking and countering often. Once the dogs came out I focused on grabbing them for collisions and brutal kills. I finished off the statues the same as before, just blocking and hitting when possible. A little more finesse will be required for challenge runs, especially the more difficult versions of the statues.

Hades Path *yet again*

-...

Olympia : Door

-Cast Gaia down

-Keeping the two seperate tends to work better.  Magic certainly simplifies things along with item spam from range.  Chokepoint, ring-out, etc. also apply.  Parry counters can help.  Using "O" for BR (collisions chip) then ring-out will also be useful.  To note it, you can infinite air OS them or even infinite OH, but it takes a forced lock with s1 between OH uses as I recall.  For higher runs, consider luring the Legionnaires to the start of the path and ringing them out (even using Icarus Wings for that perhaps).  Maybe abusine the chokepoint for t0/t3 with bow spam and such to keep everyone out while hurting the group before going in for safe "O" attempts.  Ring-outs where you can (as you note intention to do later).

Olympia:Cave

-Navigate

Olympia:Building A

-You can kill a few with the bow before even going over there.  Lots of ring-out potential.  Helios can help.  Wall collisions can be useful.  AI boundary applies (try looking around to see where foes can and cannot follow you).

-(Centaur) Camera abuse helps to control things with regards to 'rally' (group AI).  Centaur charge is decent for reversal damage and can help it glitch to "O" early with some hits while it is down other than the exploit for ringing it out (not intended for this foe as you would see when you get it right).  Getting him in the AI boundary makes his AI very weak (open to lots of hits while he barely fights back).

I reached the character limit, I'm gonna continue my skeleton in this post.

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Elevator - Blocked until the gorgon showed up, waited for her to use her gaze and used the fleece to stone them all, repeated for the second wave.

Chamber of the Flame -Move on up

Upper Chamber of the Flame -Use the crank

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Hallway B - Grabbed into OH. I could see them both at all times so I wasn't too concerned about being ht.

The Forum

Hercules

S1 - Grabbed and rammed into them

S2 - Same as before, but I rammed into Hercules. I also used magic a few times.

S3 - His attacks are very slow and easy to avoid. He can also be forced to do a slow attack by hitting him a few times while he's blocking. I hammered away on him and it wasn't long before the next phase began.

S4 - (Cestus) He's little threat now. He can grab you, but I don't think it does any damage if you escape. He can also punch you, but it's very slow and he hardly ever did it. It's mostly just a beat down at this point. I like to use the bow in this part since he can't defend against it at all.

Olympus Sewer:Nemean Roar trial -(trial) Grabbed and tore them.

(Phalanx) Broke their shields with the cestus magic, followed up with some grabs and tears.

Poseidon's Chamber:Main Chamber -used cestus magic as they came out, broke their shields with the cestus and finished them with grabs.

Poseidon's Chamber:Hyperion Gates -(Puzzle) kicked them in there -(Elevator) killed them all with grabs. -(Bronze Talos) Used the blades here. These guys take a bit of damage, but are simple to fight with all their moves being blockable. I've been finding more use for st combos, especially sttt which seems to do a lot of damage. I need to check out the damage values.

Poseidon's Chamber:Halls - Lured them around the corner and broke the shields with FB, finished them with grabs.

Poseidon's Chamber:Main Chamber *again* -Broke the shields as quickly as possible, used the legionnaires to ram into the Talos. The Talos was nearly dead by the time i was done ramming it.

Upper Gardens:Bridges

Aphrodite's Chamber -Go through the gate

Cavern of Hades:The Forge *yet again* -Go to Tartarus

Cavern of Hades : Path to Tartarus -Kill Lost Souls -(Centaur) I was able to get the prompt on it by doing nothing but ramming it with the sentries. This strategy should work all the way through PAIN+ unless there's something I'm not seeing.

Gates of Tisiphone -(2x Chimera) I kind of muscled my way through this one since they don't take that many hits to kill with the level 4 blades. I used mostly stt, and plain s spam combos with the blades, with some bow chipping, and of course I utilized the explosive barrels. I used magic a couple of times if I could get them close together. -Do the puzzle

Pit of Tartarus : Path - grabs and tears. Upgraded blades to max level.

Cronos He says only Kratos could have murdered Gaia, but what about the Olympians? And what is that crap that follows you down his throat and kills you if you touch it? -Blind him

Cronos:Right Hand - grabs and rips all the way through.

Cronos:Right Forearm - grabbed and rammed since there were so many. Hit the fingernail with sttt combos mostly.

Cronos:Right Hip - just a few guys on his side, killed them with s attacks.

Cronos:Navel - Grabbed and rammed into the statues. I also used some attacks with the blades since they're maxed out.

-Attack Onyx - I grabbed and rammed until Cronos grabbed me.

Cronos:Left Hand

(Wall) Hard to see, but basic hits with s were able to suffice.

(Floor) Grabs into rams for this part.

(Ceiling) I just used s attacks to fend them off.

Cronos:Left Arm -Navigate

Cronos:Left Shoulder - rammed into the cyclops some, hit him a little bit, wasnt long before i got the prompt and attacked the open injury.

Cronos:Throat -Navigate then do mini-game escape

Cronos:Navel -Break it and do mini-game

Cronos:Face -Break onyx and finish this encounter

Cavern of Hades:The Forge *for the last time* -Get the whips and end Hephaestus

Aphrodite's Chamber -Passing through

Upper Gardens:Bridges

(Nemesis Rage trial) grabs

Daedalus' Workshop -Pass through

Olympus Garden:Maze - with the fully upgraded blades these guys are a breeze. sttt got me prompts quickly for the ramming kills.

Olympus Garden:Hall -(Satyrs) Gonna need to practice fighting these guys. This particular fight gives me quite a bit of trouble. When they jump up it's hard to time when they're gonna come down with what the other is doing. You can grab them over and over, but it's not very safe. I mainly defeated these guys by using my magic with the blades a few times.

Olympus Gardens : Puzzle -Do it and cross the gap

Hidden Passageway:Hallway - grabbed them all. Grabbing seems to always give a little bit of health. I expect to be using this aspect of these scorpions during the Skorpus fight.

Hidden Passageway:Cave - grabbed them

The Caverns:Box 4 - This fight is really fun. These guys feel more threatening than the God of War 1 version. I used sttt or just ttt mostly, along with a good bit of bow chipping. You can get free hits as they come out of the ground too. When the club wielding cyclops came out I ignored it until the other 2 were dead. I was able to kill 1 cyclops while on it, and get a prompt on the other. Once it was dead I finished off the rest as before.

The Caverns:Flood Chamber -Pass on through

The Caverns:Hallway A -Use Elevator

The Caverns:Hallway B -grabbed them

The Caverns : Dark Path -Navigate

The Caverns : Dark Pool - I was able to use the fleece to stone and break them.

The Caverns:Hallway C -grabs

The Caverns:Box 5

Skorpius - I grabbed and punched the scorpions until he came out.

S1P1 - I had the Cestus level 5 for this fight, although I don't know if it's damage changes how many hits it takes to break the legs. He will grab you sometimes, and he also has a couple of swipe attacks that would kill in 1 hit on NUR+ or higher. My strategy was to approach the legs on either side from as wide as possible, using the jump dash to get in and out (in case of a tail stomp) (I imagine that air dash is not available on PAIN) I just used square combos to damage the legs. The things to note are that I got all the legs to red, plus a few hits, before I destroyed 3 and moved on to the next phase. I destroyed his front legs first since I felt the back ones are easier to approach for later. I also used grabs to intentionally farm some health before going into the next phase.

S1P2 - This part is gonna be rough on harder runs. I got in and hit him a few times with the Cestus, trying to also hit the smaller ones. Once they started to overwhelm me I used magic, which got me the prompt for the next phase.

S2P1 - I cleared out the waves with the cestus as best as I could. He climbs around and spits at you, which seems to be completely random when and where he appears, but it's not too long before he stops and resumes the fight. I used magic to clear out most of the scorpions. It only took a couple of hits to destroy each leg remaining, so he only did he tail spike attack 1 or 2 times, which I evaded by grabbing a scorpion. I think he stops using his attack where he grabs and bites you in this phase since you injured his mouth earlier.

S2P2 - I used rage and hit t over and over, it knocked the scorpions back and got the prompt very quickly.

S3 - Icarus Vent to mini-game -Use the Boreas Icestorm and go up the vent. Use it again. Do the grapple sequence.

The Caverns:Box 6 -I used the gorgons to stone and shatter everybody

The Caverns:Flood Chamber -Proceed

The Caverns:Hallway D -Get to the rope and cross it. Then deal with the grapples

The Caverns:Box 7 -Boreas it

The Labyrinth:Box 1 - Not too bad. I used the Cestus for this fight. Mostly plain s combos or stt, which seemed to do good damage. The Talos were no problem, just blocked and hit away. Once I got off the Cerberus everything was dead except for a few dogs.

The Labyrinth:Box 2 -Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 3 -Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 4 - Do you have to kill anything to get past this part? I used the blades here. The first wave is no big deal, there are a lot of guys and sometimes it can be hard to see what is going on at times, but it's fun. I remember the first wave being just Legionnaires and Minotaurs. I used t3 mostly to kill them, but you can get the equivalent of ring outs on the spikes if you knock them back correctly. I had to try this box a few times and none of my attempts I was able to kill everything. Is it required on PAIN+ to kill them all before the spikes do? The second wave was more difficult since it contained sirens. I feel the same way about sirens in all the games, they're not hard alone, but require a lot of attention in groups. I used magic a few times, and was able to get a decent number of kills on the spikes. When the second harpy came out only 1 siren was left, I killed it and moved on to the save point.

The Labyrinth : Pandora's Cage -Get her

The Laybrinth:Box 5 -Used the fleece to shatter everyone.

The Labyrinth:Box 6 -Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 7 - A fun fight. I wish I could record a video because it's tough to give a thorough description of how I went about doing this part. I used the blades mostly, but the cestus some since you have to. Starts off with 3 sirens, I was able to get past this part without much trouble each attempt. I tried to keep to as far to one side of the arena as possible at any given time. I'm not sure if this is because of an ai boundary, or just because the enemies were focused on Pandora, but it helped keep the number I was against manageable. I used a lot of bow chipping, and if nothing was on screen I would load a charged fire arrow and walk slowly until I saw something to chip. There were a good number of times where I was able to isolate a wraith for OH infinite. The enemies that gave me the most trouble were the shield bearing legionnaires. If I didn't want to use magic to break their shields I backed off into a corner and chipped it away with Ferocious Bite. I can go into more detail about this fight if anyone wants me to. This is one of the parts I'm most looking for advice on for future runs.

The Labyrinth:Box Tops -Get in position for the cutscene

Icarus Vent 3 These parts are stupid - Avoided the obstacles.

Three Judges:Lower

Hades Cerberus Breeder

S1 - Used the blades for this fight. When he came out I got him with a quick sttt. I used bow chipping and kicking the dogs back at him, getting in a few hits if he got close.

S2 - The strategy I have always used in this fight is to stay away from the satyr while chipping the cerberus away with the bow and kicks like the first phase. It's pretty slow, but it's also fairly safe. In future runs I am gonna try using the strategy from this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E4Iedrh3L24.

S3 - I saved my magic for this phase. I tried to group them all up together to hit them all. I also did a little bow chipping and kicking, but the magic did most of the work for this phase. I was able to get the cerberus dead before the satyrs, but the satyrs died from one more casting of magic. The last satyr I grabbed over and over.

Three Judges:Upper:Section A -Smash - Not a tough fight, but somewhat annoying since the camera keeps moving around as I dodge. I kicked the dogs about, and tried to keep as much stuff off camera as possible. Once the dogs were cleared I took care of the sirens with some bow chipping and normal combos.

Three Judges:Upper:Section B

Three Judges:Lower -Break it

Icarus Vent 4 - Avoided the obstacles

The Labyrinth:Box Tops -Get going

Chain of Balance -Keep going

Chamber of the Flame -Up

Upper Chamber of the Flame -Turn it

Zeus Pandora's box doesn't even look the same as it did in the first game.

S1P1 - Not too bad. The main things he does are a punching combo, which I interrupted with golden fleece counters, and an attack where he shoots lightning from the air, which I either reflected back with the fleece, or knocked him out of the air with HR, or sometimes knocked him down with ttt with the blades ttt is also very prone to bounce him. He has an attack where he grabs you and you have to move the stick to get out, but I can't find any rhyme or reason to when he does it.

S1P2 - Not much different, he now has an attack where he makes lightning come from the ground that I blocked, and an attack where he goes really high and smashes down on you, which I parried or just got out of the way of, he only used it twice.

Olympus : Pavilion

S2 - I stayed away from him and tried to block his attacks. Hitting him does nothing that I know of.

Gaia:Chest:Interior *Heart*

S3P1 - This part isn't so bad. He throws lightning which I deflected as often as I could, he also does an attack where he summons a phantom zeus that goes forward a short ways while he laughs, which can be parried and countered. He Also has an attack where he flies up and comes down sending out a shockwave, but for me he only did this when I bounced him with ttt. You can get him into a loop i found with that bounce, but it seems pretty slow going.

S3P2 - I think the phase changes when he goes to Gaia's heart, please correct me if I'm wrong. He will create a permanent Phantom Zeus that will chase you around and do his punch combo. I took care of this with ttt combos since it bounces and does a lot of damage. In this phase he will occasionally start doing an attack where he attack's Gaia's heart for health. It is easily enough interrupted as he's doing it. After this Gaia's heart will be glowing for a short time so I made sure to hit it as much as possible to get health orbs, while deflecting his lightning bolts. After he takes some damage he'll start making many phantom Zeuses. I saved my magic and rage for this point. When he'd summon them in the air it's easy enough to time when to jump, and when he summoned them on the ground I cleared them out with magic. It didn't take long after he started summoning the groups for me to get the prompt.

NOTE: The rest doesn't matter for run coverage.

>character limit

As did I in my edit.  Now to continue.

Olympia:Ballista

Chimera

(Snake) lvl3 BoE.  You now have the fast path to t3/s6 through t2.  AoS reaches lvl2.  Lovely.  's,s,t' locks it down.  I believe 't,t,t' would also work.  Bow spam suffices as well though it tends to block shots.

(Lion) Bow spam destroys him.  You can interrupt his roar and melee with enders.  You can get above his fireballs, but staying in the air for long takes something like CoC spam and maybe some CG if not more bow spam.  You would have to dick around with it.  Getting far away forces his charge which always leads to melee if not a taunt (both openings).  You can set-up for t3 during his 3x fireball as long as you maintain good range.

(Goat) Didn't feel like putting up with him, eh?  You can learn to properly chase him with t0/t3, but it will take time.  If you want the tactics early, just ask (or look them up).  Bow spam will do great though.

Olympia:Chasm

-Harpy ride

Olympia:Building B:Exterior:Balcony

-True enough.  Also, ring-outs.

Olympia:Building B:Interior:Hallway

-Inferno (bow) helps.  A pot for an explosion and even collisions if not creating a chokepoint (there are others).  It's all very easy.

Olympia:Building C:Wall

-Navigate

Olympia:Eos Cave Door

-AI boundary abuse makes him even easier as you can bow spam or just land enders.  Without it, you could bait his ranged charge into kick/punch/taunt so you can flank him and get lots of free/safe hits.  Disappointing that you can't trick the Berserker into hitting the Phalanx to shatter it without riding (doing so doesn't break the shields in this contrived situation).

Eos Cave:Corridor 1

-...

Eos Cave:Corridor 2

-...

Eos Cave:Catwalk 1

-HoH kicks the s*** out of this part.  Spam Flare in NUR+.  It's glorious.  PAIN+ is more of a bother for making you actually deal with the fight as intended.

Eos Cave:Corridor 3

-...

Eos Cave:Rope

-Kick and grab is about all I've done since GoW1.

Eos Cave:Corridor 4A

-...

Eos Cave:Corridor 4B

-...

Eos Cave:Broken Bridge

-Harpy ride

Eos Cave:Cliffside

-To make this easier, force them to burrow (ground OS or something) then get by the cliff.  To be more precise, the leftside cliff before the narrow pass leading to the catwalk but after the climbable wall.  Here you can CG their burrow to send them into instant death. Be careful about OH infinite against walls against them (it can hurt you sometimes) *glitch*.  OS to air OS tends to be safer.  To note it, air CG on their burrow pulls them into the air but actually does deal damage like the ground version (though it wouldn't seem like it would hurt them) while setting up air OS.

Eos Cave:Catwalk 2

-Ring-out is best.  Force burrow and CG with your back towards where you want them to go.

-I found a way to note this well, but I'll cut you slack like the other runners. If you're curious about how I would note this sort of thing relatively specifically, I can give you an example.

Chain of Balance:Scaffolding

-Navigate

Chain of Balance:Icarus Vent 2

-...

The Caverns:Box 1

-Burn bramble.

The Caverns:Box 2

-You can hang out on the lip/edge of the box outside their reach to be cheap while waiting for Minotaur spawns (keeping the Sentries for BR rams to ring everyone out). Ring-outs can give EXP, but it isn't always consistent.  CG for ring-out or the glitch repel on Minotaurs takes time to get used to (along with the glitch CG of Cestus on them for a homerun that is comical and exploitable).  OH redirection only exists in GoW1.  alt.OH is only prominent in GoWII.  Launching into juggles is good for ring-out as you slowly slap them towards where you want them to fall.  I forget if bow spam juggles force them back at all.  2x Flash (within a second) causes knockback, but I forget how well that works on them versus more basic foes.  Mongrel decimates this fight.  Just let them gather up and use flamethrower (insane damage).  You won't even need to clean up if done well.  As for Archers, Inferno sets the whole group ablaze.

The Caverns:Box 3

-Listen to Hermes then get up the Chain of Balance

Chamber of the Flame

-Unveil 3 frescos, read them and watch the cutscenes

 ---

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Elevator

-...

Chamber of the Flame

-Move on up

Upper Chamber of the Flame

-Use the crank

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Hallway B

-AI boundary abuse can apply.

The Forum

Hercules

S1 - ...

S2 - Better to ram him during his attacks so he cannot block.

S3 - Bow chip and ranged antics like t0 suffice.

Olympus Sewer:Nemean Roar trial

-(trial) NUR+ will be MP spam, I trust.

Poseidon's Chamber:Main Chamber

-Alternatively, CG pokes or glitch bow shots to break shields with range.  Maybe just let them charge into the water pool.  Probably easier to lure the dogs or bust a shield and lure a Guardian into the AI boundary to have some personal time.

Poseidon's Chamber:Hyperion Gates

-(Puzzle) ...

-(Elevator) ...

-(Bronze Talos) Wanting to see the damage values, are you?  Also, 't,t,t' is more to the point than 's,t,t,t' for BoE.  You can lure them to AI boundaries for free hits, go to th lever and spam bow shots from above, fight them head-on (because), etc.  Sadly, you cannot make them ring-out (invisible walls save them).  Pity.  Nothing I like more than clever solutions that make light of high HP targets.

Poseidon's Chamber:Halls

-...

Poseidon's Chamber:Main Chamber *again*

-For NUR+, try to get the Bronze Talos to chase you to the water pool and let it run right in to its death.

Upper Gardens:Bridges

-Navigate

Aphrodite's Chamber

-Go through the gate

Cavern of Hades:The Forge *yet again*

-Go to Tartarus

Cavern of Hades : Path to Tartarus

-Kill Lost Souls

-(Centaur) No, you're quite right.  For NUR+ and below, Flash/flare, bow shot/inferno, etc. also chip well from the ledge above the fight for cheap tactics, but that's more for a run where you cannot use grabs (which are a big deal in GoW *far more so than other Action games*).This Centaur can't really charge you and likes to spam rallywith all his trash back-up around.  Arches need to die when on-screen so you don't get chipped for higher runs though.

Gates of Tisiphone

-(2x Chimera) lvl4 BoE now, eh?  So you have TR lvl1 and some other rubbish.  't,t,t' suffices to burn through Chimera HP very quickly.  You can get them stuck in certain ways aside from an AI boundary.  They can set off the pots and even use the same pot 2 and 3 times (as it sticks around after exploding for a bit). Helps to learn which of their attacks can do this.  Making good use of pots means a lot.  Ramming them with them isn't the best call though.

-Do the puzzle

Pit of Tartarus : Path

-lvl5 BoE?  My, my.  lvl2 TR.  The air version can be abused in some areas as you get stuck above foes slapping them and come down rather thard.  Takes testing to find good places/times to use it, but it is an amusing special that you might as well make use of while you still have it.

>only Kratos

Cronos is an idiot.

>that crap

Flem?  Saliva?  Hard to say.  The Cyclops Remains holding on to the wall is the result of their unfinished work with getting them on walls as promised in early previews.  What did they do with the next entry?  Finish the AI and get more wall combat working?  No.  Dropped the whole system.  F*** them.  Now navigation is without true control, lacks variety and has no combat to it.

-Blind him

Cronos:Right Hand

-You can BR ram at the spawn point to make them ring-out.  Also, this part is timed if I recall right.

Cronos:Right Forearm

-Being in the air during the 'arm push' ignores the QTE along with i-frames in general.  It doesn't hurt you unless you fail (instant death).  The breath needs to be cleared and it can kill his 'help'.  Not too much to this.

Cronos:Right Hip

-You can grab and toss them.

Cronos:Navel

-Pity we cannot ring-out the Talos here (bulls***).  Targeting can get annoying if you aren't careful to mind this issue.  BR ram for collisions is great though.

-Attack Onyx

-...

Cronos:Left Hand

(Wall) A preview of the future (minus wall combat).  We just didn't know it yet.  Better to keep away.

(Floor) This part is timed.

(Ceiling) Grab and toss.

Cronos:Left Arm

-Navigate

Cronos:Left Shoulder

-...

Cronos:Throat

-Navigate then do mini-game escape

Cronos:Navel

-Break it and do mini-game

Cronos:Face

-Break onyx and finish this encounter

Cavern of Hades:The Forge *for the last time*

-Get the whips and end Hephaestus

Aphrodite's Chamber

-Passing through

Upper Gardens:Bridges

(Nemesis Rage trial) ...

Daedalus' Workshop

-Pass through

Olympus Garden:Maze

-AI boundary applies along with chokepoins.  Ring-outs for his help.  These tactics are more relevant for NUR and higher though.  You can power through this sort of trash now.  Ain't it grand?

Olympus Garden:Hall

-(Satyrs) AI boundary abuse breaks them.  It takes time to learn their grab's specifics.  This I grant.  The ground OS is extremely powerful in this entry, but you do need to make it safe by getting the other far away, taunting or off his feet (basically unable to interfere).  Air OS and OH are both very strong (not as strong as ground OS), easy to set-up and very safe.  A starter should go for those options instead.  NW is great for set-up with t1. Later you can use the Boots for this too.  The other tools can launch, sure, but they're not as good as the NW for this (matching the SoD's t1 in terms of being great for set-ups).  Hell, NW can infinitely juggles Satyrs to death without using grabs (even multiple if set-up perfectly).  Magic spam was your solution, eh?  In time, you will get comfortable with them.  You will dominate.  Just need more familiarity.

Olympus Gardens : Puzzle

-Do it and cross the gap

GoWIII.doc is pretty much only damage values for weapons.  The other is for specialty runs.  There were two documents.  I'll continue evaluations from where we left off later.  I'm looking to make some headway into GFAQs sweep today.

Mount Olympus

Gaia:Shoulder -grabs

Gaia:Arm -grabs

Leviathan 1 - (Standing 1) used ttt to get him down. Easy enough to avoid his attacks. No need for magic

(Ceiling) Just went back and forth hitting and dodging

(Wall) same as before

(Standing 2) used magic to avoid his attacks while hitting with ttt

Mountainside:Exterior A -grabs

Mountainside:Exterior B -grabs

Moutainside:Interior:Tomb of Ares -rammed into the centaur

Gaia:Chest:Exterior

Leviathan 2

Stage 1 - Chipped away on his right side

Stage 2 - same but used magic if he used his water spit just to be safe

Gaia:Chest:Interior - grabs

Gaia:Head

Poseidon

Stage 1 - didn't take long to get their claws out of either side with ttt combos. I rolled out of the way of the hippocampuses coming down, and used magic when he did.

Gaia:Hand

Stage 2 - Hit him with ttt combos and blocked his close range attacks. I was able to get some hits in on his big hand poke, but not the 3 ones.

Gaia:Head Stage 3 - same as stage 1

River Styx -Swim

Realm of Hades

Hades Path - Grabs and rams

Palace of Hades:Exterior (AoS Trial) Used magic over and over (Rope) Grabs

Gorgon Serpent Chamber -Mostly stoned them all by reflecting the gaze, killed a few with BR.

Peirithous Puzzle - I hit the cerberus with stsssst combos, what's the highest damage combo I know of with the blades. I cleared the enemies on it, and when it died I killed the rest with grabs and the bow

Harpy Chamber - I mostly killed them with the bow. Some grabs too.

Underworld:Cliffside -Navigate

Three Judges:Lower *Trials of Erebus*

- Grabbed them all man and arm alike

- I didn't let any touch the back wall while slapping the minotaur. Once they were all dead it only took a few hits to get the prompt.

-I kept the gorgon alive the whole time and used it to shatter the enemies.

Three Judges:Upper:Section B - They were mostly dead after I blew up the barrels. It just took a few slaps and bow chips to get prompts on them.

Caverns of Hades:Bridge - I grabbed into OH infinite. I know this is unsafe, but there's only a few of these guys in the whole game and they're not very hard.

Caverns of Hades:Bramble Vent Puzzle -same as above but on the top level I was able to blow a barrel to severely damage them on top of grabs.

Caverns of Hades:Hades Arms - I used t0 to clear a path I didn't bother to kill them all. Do you have to kill all these in PAIN+

Palace of Hades:Outer Atrium - I remember you mentioning there being an ai exploit here so I tried it out, and sure enough if you go far enough back they just let you get a few hits in as they walk back. I didn't bother to use this much though as it felt slow and this fight is easy. I blocked and hit away with st combos, as far as I could get although I didn't finish with t since it's dangerous. When the sentries came out I used them to BR.

Caverns of Hades:The Forge -Lever

Caverns of Hades:Gazebo -(Dogs) grabbed them

Hades Path

(RoS Trial) -grabbed and rammed them

Palace of Hades:Exterior

(Twin Hades Cerberus) I used a lot of bow chipping here, along with getting in a few hits when they get close. I used RoS when the fight started, but after that I almost exclusively stayed away and hit with the bow. Anything else felt dangerous.

Palace of Hades : Door of Hades - I grabbed the dogs for collisions, when they were mostly gone I grabbed the sentries for BR

Palace of Hades:Lower Chamber - killed them with the bow and a few grabs

Palace of Hades:Mezzanine - I ran back towards the tree since some seemed to get stuck in the door. I killed the dogs with grabs into collisions and the bow. The minotaurs I tried to ring out, but was only able to with s6. HR did not let me do it as best as I could tell. Any advice on how to ring these guys out in general besides s6, HR, and BR?

Palace of Hades:Upper Chamber - Grabbed the sentries and killed the harpies with the bow

Palace of Hades:Lower Chamber *again* - Killed them with the bow and grabs

Palace of Hades:Upper Chamber *again* -Finish puzzle

Hades

S1P1 - (Stand) Not much different than the last time. I blocked or parried his claw attacks, rolled away from his stomps and hit away at him mostly with just square combos.

S1P2 - (Wall) A little more bow chipping than last time, but not too different. I rolled away from his grabs and slam attacks, blocked his normal attacks with the claws, and jumped over his ground swings all while hitting away when I got the chance.

S1P3 - (Meat) Chased it down and tried to keep it as far back as possible. I imagine you could intentionally repeat this part to get some health back if you wanted.

S2P1 - (Stand) Quite a bit of bow chipping, which baits out his claw grab, which is easy to trick through and get a few free hits. I blocked his combo from the first phase like before, and rolled behind him when he used his unblockable attack. I rolled away from his stomp, although he hardly ended up using it.

S2P2 - (Wall) Mostly stayed away this phase, chipping with the bow and reflecting back his souls.

S2P3 - (Meat) Same as before

S3 - (Wall) I used magic a couple of times, but didn't use rage. When his claws are in the ground you can get a ton of free hits as they're easy to avoid. The monsters he summons can be blocked. The magic did quite a bit of damage as I only had to hit him a few times to get the prompt.

S4 - (Tug-of-War) I didn't bother to back away from the river since it doesn't seem to be anything but an asset. Not much to note here, his attacks are very easy to avoid. I hit away at him until I got the prompt.

S5 - (CoH) Hit away mostly with sst and ttt combos. I used the grapple point when I got the chance since it gives free hits against his back. His attacks are telegraphed in advance and easy to avoid.

Palace of Hades:Soul Summon Trial - Grabs into rams

Cavern of Hades:The Forge -Pass through

Cavern of Hades:Gazebo - I'm gonna stick with the blades until I get the Cestus I think. The first couple of Talos were easy enough. I blocked and hit away on them when I could. When the dogs came out I focused on them with grabs since they're very dangerous if they grab you. I stayed away from the main group as much as possible and cleared them out with collisions. Finished off the last Talos and moved on

Hades Path *yet again* -Got them with the bow

Olympia : Door -Cast Gaia down -I wasn't able to get as many ring outs as I'd have liked, but I still passed this part without incident. I led the first group back past where Gaia was while trying to catch as many on fire as possible. Once I got towards the back I fought them just by blocking and slapping. It wasn't long before I got a prompt and the ram cleared most of them out. I used this same tactic luring back a few at a time and taking them out. You can get some good damage in kicking the dogs as they follow you.

Olympia:Cave -Navigate

Olympia:Building A - Killed these guys with the bow from afar

-(Centaur) I stood to the left of the chest where there are holes in the side of the wall and rung out everything except the Centaur with HR. I was able to lure most of the legionnaires away by catching them on fire, which causes them to walk forward in whatever direction they're facing. Once I was able to get the Centaur alone it wasn't too tough to defeat. I blocked and hit away,sometimes catching it on fire and bow chipping, waiting for the qte which is always the same. I get the feeling it's possible to ring out the centaur, but I can't figure out any way to move it around like the smaller enemies.

Olympia:Ballista

Chimera

(Snake) I used almost exclusively bow chipping and a few slaps when he got close.

(Lion) Same as before, but I slapped him around with the blades more.

(Goat) I bow chipped him a little while and used rage to finish him off. This is gonna be a fun fight on PAIN+

Olympia:Chasm -Harpy ride

Olympia:Building B:Exterior:Balcony - Ring outs with HR

Olympia:Building B:Interior:Hallway - Burned them and used BR for collisions

Olympia:Building C:Wall -Navigate

Olympia:Eos Cave Door - Used bow chipping and some slapping around to get the cyclops to the prompt. Once it was dead there were only 3 left alive and I finished them off with just a few hits

Eos Cave:Corridor 1 -grabs

Eos Cave:Corridor 2 -grabs

Eos Cave:Catwalk 1 - I used the bow and a few grabs when they were on the ground.

Eos Cave:Corridor 3 -grabs

Eos Cave:Rope - grabs

Eos Cave:Corridor 4A -grabs

Eos Cave:Corridor 4B - grabs

Eos Cave:Broken Bridge -Harpy ride

Eos Cave:Cliffside - used OS into OH while staying to the bottom of the screen so I can keep my eye on the other.

Eos Cave:Catwalk 2 - Easy ring outs here with HR. Finished off the archers with the bow.

Chain of Balance:Icarus Vent 1 - avoided the obstacles

Chain of Balance:Scaffolding

Chain of Balance:Icarus Vent 2 - avoided the obstacles

The Caverns:Box 1 -Burn bramble.

The Caverns:Box 2 - Killed the sentries with BR. I used HR to back one minotaur up some, then launched with T into another HR for the ringout. I was able to do this on all the first 4 Minotaurs. I was able to take out all the rest of the minotaurs with t on the Cerberus, which finished up the fight.

The Caverns:Box 3 -Listen to Hermes then get up the Chain of Balance Chamber of the Flame -Unveil 3 frescos, read them and watch the cutscenes

The Olympian Citadel A

-Proceed to the wall from the walk way, slide down, cross the grapple point and land on the burning, breaking bridge. -(Bridge) jumped up, hitting the people in the way.

-Pursue Hermes. -grabs

-Grab hold the Crane, pull the lever, cross the gap, make your way across another breaking bridge. - I picked them off 1 by 1 with the bow as they attacked the villagers. None of them ever got close to me -Pursue Hermes past the portcullis. Use the catapult to reach Athena's Statue.

Grand Vestibule:Lower

Hermes "Boxing is a sweet science; speed alone cannot overcome it." - Dudley - He alternates between running around hitting you and resting. When he was running I rolled away constantly, or used magic if it seemed like I could get him. I mostly damaged him by using t3 while he rested. It only took about 10 hits with this and a little magic to defeat him.

Grand Vestibule:Upper -grabs

The Olympian Citadel B - The first 2 I beat using the bow before the fight even started. The other Legionnaires I ringed out with HR. The Cyclopes I defeated mostly by bow chipping, with some t3 and t0 chipping in there as well. When the wave of 2 Cyclopes came I moved back towards where you came from and was able to ai boundary glitch for a time and kill one with the bow safely. After it died though the camera angle shifted and I couldn't do it any more. I finished off with some bow chipping.

Upper Chamber of the Flame -grabs

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Hallway A -I just realized that you can launch these sirens with T into infinite air os until the prompt. I'm gonna use that come the labyrinth. I killed the sirens that way, and the legionnaires with some t0 into oh and catching them on fire.

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Muse Music Box -Puzzle

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Elevator - Used the fleece to stone them when the gorgon stared. This was annoying as it took much longer than I had hoped for. I broke them with t0.

Chamber of the Flame -Move on up

Upper Chamber of the Flame -Use the crank

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Hallway B - Ground OS mostly, some OH, but I played it safe here.

The Forum

Hercules

S1 - Grabs into BR

S2 - same as before but I rammed into Hercules. Also did some bow chipping here

S3 - Chipping with t3 and with the bow when he did his attacks. There's no real threat as long as you keep your distance.

S4 - (Cestus) Lots of bow chipping and some stt combos when close. Overall a pretty easy boss. I imagine the first phases are terrible on NGR though.

Olympus Sewer:Nemean Roar trial

-(trial) grabs into BR

-(Phalanx) used magic with cestus to break the shields then used BR

Poseidon's Chamber:Main Chamber - I found there is an ai boundary here so I stayed back and used magic plus FB to break the shields and used grabs on the dogs and shieldless legionnaires.

Poseidon's Chamber:Hyperion Gates

-(Puzzle) grabs

-(Elevator) grabs

-(Bronze Talos) I used the cestus and hit away with sss or stt combos. I remember you noting you can use ai boundary abuse by the switch but I didn't try it. Maybe on another run just for fun, but this is an easy fight anyway.

Poseidon's Chamber:Halls - I waited around the corner and broke their shields with the CG with the cestus. Once they were broken I killed them with grabs.

Poseidon's Chamber:Main Chamber *again* - I took care of the shields with a few hits from the Cestus. I was able to get the Talos to fall in the water just like you said. I only wish there were a more threatening enemy to use this on.

Upper Gardens:Bridges -Navigate

Aphrodite's Chamber -Go through the gate

Cavern of Hades:The Forge *yet again*

-Go to Tartarus

Cavern of Hades : Path to Tartarus -Kill Lost Souls -(Centaur) I used BR since there are hordes of sentries here. By the time they were cleared out I only had to hit the centaur a few times with the bow to get the prompt.

Gates of Tisiphone -(2x Chimera) I was able to use the camera angle to separate them, so this was just like the first fight except now I have the Cestus and bramble barrels. I bow chipped some, but the level 1 Cestus took them out pretty quickly. I used rage some just to be safe, but I really didn't need to in retrospect. -Do the puzzle

Pit of Tartarus : Path - grabs

Cronos -Blind him

Cronos:Right Hand - grabs into BR

Cronos:Right Forearm - Mostly grabs into BR. This part is mostly just waiting for his hand to become vulnerable. I got out of the way of his breath attack and jumped when he used his push with his hand attack.

Cronos:Right Hip - I grabbed these guys. That might be considered bad form though.

Cronos:Navel - I used collisions mostly and a few hits from the Cestus. The only problem here is it can be hard to grab the sentries since the grabs tend to gravitate towards the Talos, whether they have a prompt or not.

-Attack Onyx - Blocked them a few seconds until Cronos grabbed me.

Cronos:Left Hand

(Wall) killed them with s attacks.

(Floor)

(Ceiling)

Cronos:Left Arm -Navigate

Cronos:Left Shoulder - used BR on the cyclops until I got the prompt. Hit the shoulder with t attacks until the phase ended.

Cronos:Throat -Navigate then do mini-game escape

Cronos:Navel -Break it and do mini-game

Cronos:Face -Break onyx and finish this encounter

Cavern of Hades:The Forge *for the last time* -Get the whips and end Hephaestus

Aphrodite's Chamber -Passing through

Upper Gardens:Bridges (Nemesis Rage trial) This is my favorite magic in the game. It's like Charon's Mask combined with Chronos' Rage. I killed them all with it.

Daedalus' Workshop -Pass through

Olympus Garden:Maze - I really like the whips for the easy launches. It does decent damage too even at level 1 with the tirades. I launched for OH, or just beat up the legionnaires with the whips. The talos I beat with standard block and hit tactics. I used some burning too since they tend to group up here.

Olympus Garden:Hall -(Satyrs) When the first one spawned I walked back towards the entrance. I was able to grab it 3 times and the other didn't even move towards me. I killed it with grabs too.

Olympus Gardens : Puzzle -Do it and cross the gap

Hidden Passageway:Hallway - grabs

Hidden Passageway:Cave - grabs and burned them

The Caverns:Box 4 - Lots of Cyclopes, but not too bad. I used the whips for this fight. These guys do a lot of damage if they hit you, but their moves are very slow. They generally only give me problems if they hit me from offscreen or their spinning balls get into a pattern where dodging one gets me hit by the other. I cleared out all the armored ones before I got on the club wielding ones. I was able to kill 1 and get a prompt on another. I finished off the last one with some hits from the bow and the whips.

The Caverns:Flood Chamber -Pass on through

The Caverns:Hallway A -Use Elevator

The Caverns:Hallway B - grabs

The Caverns : Dark Path -Navigate

The Caverns : Dark Pool - Reflected the gaze and broke them with the whips

The Caverns:Hallway C - Grabbed and burned them.

The Caverns:Box 5

Character limit reached. Continuing NUR coverage of 3 in this post

Skorpius - Blocked until he came out

S1P1 - This fight wasn't actually very much different than normal. I used the same strategy I did before of getting all the legs as close to breaking as possible before breaking any. This took a little while since I got hit on occasion by the small scorpions and grabbed to get my health back. I came across a bug where one of the legs was stuck looking like it was yellow even though it was broken. Once I got all the legs red and damaged beyond that I broke his 2 front ones and one middle.

S1P2 - I used tt with the cestus to damage him and keep the scorpions away. I'm intimidated by this whole fight on PAIN+. The idea of having to restart every time I accidentally hit a small scorpion with the Cestus doesn't sound fun at all. This phase I guess you'd have to spam t0 or something to keep the scorpions from overrunning you.

S2P1 - I used fire and magic with the cestus to clear the scorpions, although the cestus magic didn't seem to do that much. I was able to break the last 3 legs very quickly. I just had to avoid a few swipes and it was on to the last part.

S2P2 - To be safe I went ahead and used Rage, but ttt with rage active didn't feel like it got through it any faster than tt with the cestus.

S3 - Icarus Vent to mini-game

-Use the Boreas Icestorm and go up the vent. Use it again. Do the grapple sequence.

The Caverns:Box 6 - Kept the gorgons around to stone the other enemies and broke them with the Cestus. I wish I could say more but that's about all I did.

The Caverns:Flood Chamber -Proceed

The Caverns:Hallway D -Get to the rope and cross it. Then deal with the grapples

The Caverns:Box 7 -Boreas it

The Labyrinth:Box 1 - I used the Cestus this fight. The Talos are easy enough, just hit and block. Once they were dead I mounted the cerberus and killed 1 talos with t, all the dogs with s, and getting the other talos to a prompt. Once the cerberus was dead I finished off the Talos and moved on.

The Labyrinth:Box 2 -Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 3 -Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 4 - A pretty rough fight, if for no other reason than the camera angle hides where the spikes are sometimes. I died many times because I accidentally jumped away from an attack onto spikes that were offscreen. Most of this fight I spent running away from the various enemies and letting the spikes deal with them. Aside from a few kills with OH from t launch with the whips all the legionnaires and minotaurs died this way. The second wave was particularly annoying since it includes sirens who are a big pest in geneal. Finally once they were cleared and I had clung to both harpies I finished off the last 2 sirens with t launch into air os.

The Labyrinth : Pandora's Cage

The Laybrinth:Box 5 - This might be a tough fight on PAIN+, but for this run it wasn't bad at all. I used the gorgon's stare to turn all the enemies to stone and broke them with the cestus, except for a few that I defeated with grabs.

The Labyrinth:Box 6 -Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 7 - This fight is so long and complicated it's very difficult for me to give you detailed coverage. All together I'd say this fight took about 10 minutes. I used the whips and Cestus. My main tactic was to move from the left to right side as much as needed to use AI boundaries to get the fight I wanted to fight. I doubt it will surprise anyone that the hardest part of this fight was the shield bearing legionnaires. I saved my magic especially for them since you can break many shields at once. The sirens I killed by launching with t and using air OS over and over. The shielded legionnaires I defeated by luring one away at a time and getting them with the Cestus CG. The wraiths I beat with plain grabs, OH infinite if there was nothing around. Minotaurs I launched with t into air OS, hitting them while they're stuck in the ground. This fight just goes on and on. At least in the fight before Clotho you're moving forward so you can get a feeling of your progress.

The Labyrinth:Box Tops

-Get in position for the cutscene

Icarus Vent 3 - Avoided the obstacles

Three Judges:Lower

Hades Cerberus Breeder

S1 - Grabbed the pups and bow chipped away.

S2 - I had some success using launches with the whips into air os on the satyrs while the cerberus was occupied. I need to practice more on separating them, too often if I get the cerberus into a good position but the satyr just stands around too far away to reach. I was able to kill the satyr before the phase ended.

S3 - Only 1 satyr came out, I figured it would be 2 even though I killed the one in the first phase. I used my rage with ttt hits on the cerberus, then a bit of bow chipping got the prompt. I finished off the satyrs with grabs.

Three Judges:Upper:Section A -Smash - Took out the dogs with grabs and fire. Once they were dealt with I killed the sirens with air os from a launch with the whips.

Three Judges:Upper:Section B -Smash. - Broke the shields with Cestus CG, and killed the legionnaires by lauching with the whips into air OS or OH. Once they were cleared I got the satyrs with grabs.

Three Judges:Lower -Break it

Icarus Vent 4 - Avoided the obstacles

The Labyrinth:Box Tops -Get going

Chain of Balance -Keep going

Chamber of the Flame -Up

Upper Chamber of the Flame

-Turn it

Zeus "Let's fight... like gentlemen" - Dudley

S1P1 - I used the whips for this fight. I usually have counter after parry for this fight so the only adjustment I had to make was not being able to interrupt his punching combination attack. Instead I blocked the first hit, then backdashed into some bow hits. When he went up for his lightning bolt attack I got him with the combat grapple. When he tried to grab me I jumped over him.

S1P2 - Same as before but he has a new attack where he makes lightning come from the ground that I blocked. He can also do an attack where he flies up and smashes down, but he didn't do it on my run.

Olympus : Pavilion

S2 - I stayed away from him and blocked until Gaia came.

Gaia:Chest:Interior *Heart*

S3P1 - Not too bad, this fight doesn't get to be hard until he makes the groups of Phantom Zeuses. his lightning i reflect back, and his other attack where he sends out a copy of himself can be blocked and gives rage and magic if parried.

S3P2 - The thing that makes this fight hard is obviously the phantoms. When the phase first started there was only 1 or 2 phantoms out at a time, but later he summons 4 at once, all of which have a respectable amount of hp and can do a huge amount of damage if they hit you. He will often charge up an attack against Gaia's heart that is easily broken but if you fail to do it he gets some health back I used this chance to get health and rage by using tirade on the heart.. The phantoms will only use his punch combo, which is easy to avoid, but Zeus will constantly use fast lightning bolts which can be distracting enough to allow a phantom to get a hit in occasionally. When they were out I only hit Zeus directly to interrupt his attack, otherwise I just stayed back and tried to hit as many phantoms as possible while keeping my health up by hitting the heart when it glowed. I can provide more detail on this fight if anyone would like me to.

NOTE: The rest doesn't matter for run coverage.

" Yes, managing Drederick has been my highest priority, even though he is temporarily incarcerated for pushing his mother down the stairs. But with his impending release, I've been strategizing for his glorious return to the shores of Fistiana." - Lucius Sweet

Rhodes Temple:Antechamber - grabs

Rhodes Temple:Hall - grabs

Colossus 1 - grabbed and hit away with t0. When the colossus brought his hand down I used magic. It only took a few times to get the prompt.

Rhodes' Bathhouse -Nothing to note

Colossus 2 - I got it with ttt when it placed it's hand down on the side. Every time was enough to injure it so I moved to the other side and repeated.

Rhodes Palace:Hallways

- grabs

- grabs

-Go up the elevator and slap the Colossus in the eye

Rhodes Palace:Western Ramparts

- grabs and i was able to lock them down with repeated use of t0

-same as before and I used grabs on the archers

Rhodes Palace:Easter Ramparts - grabs

Colossus 3

Stage 1 - stood to the left of the blade and jumped when he slammed his fist down, using Cyclone of Chaos to damage him. I know CoC is considered bad form, but I haven't checked the damage values yet so I'm not sure what the best alternative would have been.

Stage 2 - Stood in front of the blade and used PR when the first came down. I dazed him before I ran out of mana

Stage 3 - Used the broken fist to daze him.

Stage 4 - Got in and used either a few s attacks, or blocking t, rolled out quickly and repeated.

Inside the Colossus

- grabs and slaps with the blade

(Shaft 1) Break it and navigate ahead

- grabs

(Shaft 2) Break it and navigate ahead

- grabs and a some hits with the blade

-grabs

-(Shaft 3) Break it

-(Puzzle)

-(Shaft 4) Break it and escape

Zeus

-Get killed "Officious little Prick." - Jack Torrance

Hades "They float, Georgie, and when you're down here with me, you'll float, too." - Robert Gray - Grabbed them and jumped

Pegasus 1 - I mostly used x to get in close while using ttt and r1 or r2 to damage them from the sides. These fights become second nature after a few playthroughs.

PATTERN: D, L, U - Followed the pattern.

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern - grabs, sometimes set up by st and t0

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Walls -grabs, with some being killed by suicide jumping towards me on the edge.

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Hallway A - Grabbed the harpies. It looks like st doesn't launch the minotaurs. I launched with T and found the air OS isn't infinite either. It still didn't take much damage to get a prompt.

Mount Etna:Moutainside A - I broke the first scaffolding and threw the archer into the minotaur, which got a prompt. After it died I broke the other scaffolding and grabbed the archers, but the last 2 minotaurs didn't come out. Must be some bug or something. -

Mount Etna:Fires of Olympus -get Prometheus down

Mount Etna:Mountainside B - grabs - grabbed and threw them into each other

Mount Etna:Typhon's Cavern

- I used this fight just to check out how the gorgons are different in this entry. As I suspected st no longer launched and air OS was no longer infinite. OH is different now too and looks like it'd be good for ring outs. These things really aren't that hard, they're weak enough you can just block and slap and get by them unharmed. I did some launches with sT, but it felt unsafe. I'll have to experiment more as I come across more of them. I killed them with some launching antics, some t3 chipping, and just some slapping. Nothing fancy.

- Stayed behind the walls and knocked the harpies down with st, finishing them with grabs

- Used TB to kill the archers right away and killed the legionnaires with grabs and throws

- killed them with TB

- If I'm not mistaken this is for that optional fight, which I did not do.

Mount Etna:Fires of Olympus

-Shoot down Prometheus - Collisions destroy this fight. I was able to get prompts on the minotaurs by throwing the legionnaires into them, and was able to defeat the legionnaires by throwing them into each other. -(rope) grabs

Mount Etna:Mountainside A -RotT the door

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Hallway B - grabs

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Hallway A - grabs

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Wall - grabs

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern -Free Pegasus

Pegasus 2 - The same as before. I rammed them with X L1 and R1 and slapped them around with s and t attacks.

-(Dark Rider) Used rage to be safe. It didn't take many hits at all to finish him off.

PATTERN: L, D, R, U, L

Temple of Lahkesis:Cliff 2 - Lots of collision potential here. I went with st into OH, but air OS also can cause collisions, I just wasn't able to hit with it very often.

Temple of Lahkesis:Hanging Garden - grabs into collisions

Temple of Lahkesis:Cerberus Courtyard - This enemy is strange. There's only 1 in the game, but it's not a boss or mini boss. Collisions from the dogs around it make this fight trivial . -(Ceiling) grabs -(Platform/Ledge/Chest Garden) Jumped across and threw the archers into each other with s, came back and killed all the dogs and legionnaires with collisions from kicking the dogs. Temple of Lahkesis:Siren Sacrifice - some TB use. I tried to set up T into OH for collisions, but I had little success. I ended up doing a fair bit of t3 chipping and some slapping with the blades. A bit of air OS too, but that launch is hard to land.

Steeds of Time:Saddle 4:Exterior

NOTE: Horse order (behind; left to right) yellow, green, red (Saddle 3), blue (Saddle 4)

Theseus "No quiero pelear con el payaso" - Roberto Duran

S11/S12 - A basic block and counter type of fight. I hit with mostly st since it can knock him down allowing you to get a bunch of hits. Once he powers up his stick it's even more easy since he lets you get in free hits while he summons ice at you. When he grabbed me I did the QTE for big damage.

S21 - I evaded/tricked through his bolts. not much to note here

S22 - I'm not sure what part of the fight this is referring to.

M1 - I got the minotaurs by lauching with T into OH for collisions. This fight ended up being a lot simpler than I remember it.

Steeds of Time:Saddle 3:Interior:CR Trial -(CR trial) used CR repeatedly until over.

Steeds of Time:Bridle Puzzle -Do it

Steeds of Time:Saddle 3:Exterior - launched the legionnaires with st into OH for collisions. When the minotaurs came out I launched them with T into OH for collisions. - st into OH

Temple of Lahkesisivine Pools - grabs -navigate to the Amulet -do the puzzle and press on (head through the window)

Temple of Lahkesis:Amulet Chamber -Escape

Temple of Lahkesis:Courtyard - Used the amulet every chance I got. I killed the wraiths with grabs and OH, and the bugs with grabs from the air or ground. Not much to note here since the amulet makes this fight very easy.

Destiny's Atrium - I tried to go for collisions with the boars with OH, but I was very rarely able to set it up properly. I was always too far away, or the cyclops grabbed the boar before i could launch it. I ended up beating them all with some t3 chipping and slapping them around at close range.

Barbarian King "Don't lecture me, pup! The wretches deserved death! Don't you feel it, Thrall? It's like the old days..." - Grommash Hellscream

S1 - He charges at you which can be avoided by rolling to the side. I got in some hits as he ran around me. Most of this phase was just blocking his hammer, rolling away from his charge, and blocking the arrows. It didn't take too long before the phase ended

S2 - I grabbed the ghosts. After each I blocked some hits from his hammer, or rolled away from MotK and continued grabbing.

S3 - I used t3 chipping, some TB shots, and Rage to get through this phase while minimizing the danger

S4 - I blocked his swings. When he charged up his spirits attack I rolled back and when he released it I rolled forward to avoid it. I just hit away on him while avoiding those attacks until I got a prompt. Not too bad a fight.

-grabs

Bog of the Forgottenath to the Bog - grabs

Bog of the Forgotten:Temple of Euryale

-Get Euryale's Key - I grabbed whored these guys. I know they can be used for collisions which I will try to take advantage of later. - smashed the skeletons with tt from the hammer. Is there a way to get collisions from these aside from launching into air OS?

Ruins of the Forgotten - I grabbed the small guys off the cyclopes and used OH to get in as much collision damage as possible. It only took a few hits to get a prompt after that. I repeated for the next cyclops.

Ruins of the Forgotten:Hallway -grabs into throws.

Ruins of the Forgotten - I killed the bugs with air os from the edge of the pit. The wraiths I defeated with OS and a little OH

Ruins of the Forgotten:Bog Battle - grabs

-(Pillars) grabs into OH

Ruins of the Forgotten:Forgotten Chamber - grabs -Puzzle

River of the Forgotten - I grabbed and threw them off while moving the platforms as much as possible.

Titan Minotaur 1 - some TB chipping, some T3 chipping. All he did was his spin attack which leaves him open for some free hits afterwords.

River of the Forgotten:Euryale's Guantlet -Pull down the tree -(Vine) grabs -(Gears) Use Amulet and cross. -(Conveyor) Rolled to the end and started hitting the wood. If an enemy got close i grabbed and threw it into the others with s.

Ruins of the Forgotten -Do the puzzle, navigate ahead

Cave of the Forgotten -Talk to the corpse - Killed with tt from the hamer. blocking hits and avoiding the gaze. -Proceed with the corspe

Cave of the Forgotten:Coliseum

Cerberus Bastard

Stage 1 - Blocked it's attack and hit with tt from the hammer. When it used it's fireball attack I backed off and shot it with TB

Stage 2 - Same as before. Is there even a difference in how it acts in this phase?

Cave of the Forgotten - Used the fleece to stone them and broke them with the hammer.

Bog of the Forgotten:Temple of Euryale -Destroy the Gorgon Door

Euryale's Temple:Antechamber - Used the hammer on these guys. I could have gone for collisions but I like using the hammer in general

Euryale's Temple:Underground Chamber - I was able to get a decent amount of collisions on the minotaurs by using OH on the legionnaires and throwing them with s when I got a prompt. I was able to do this to both, it only took a few hits after the last legionnaire died to finish off the minotaur.

Euryale's Temple:Elevator Puzzle - got them with air OH

Euryale's Temple:Lowland Vista - These guys are different from their God of War 1 incarnation. I notice you can move them quite a ways with OH, ill try to use this later for collisions or ring outs.

Euryale's Temple:Temple Hazards -Navigate through

Euryale's Chamber "Hey fatty, you are fat!" - Hank Hill.

Euryale "I'm just a n***a that loves tittes"- Dave Chappelle

Stage 1 - I used the hammer for this phase. The only thing that can't be blocked is her attack where she smashes down with her tail. I used tt and blocked. I either used counter after parrying to avoid damage from the smash, or walked to one side to avoid it.

Stage 2 - I hit her with tt as she was on the columns. All she did was swing her tail, which I blocked, and use an attack where she turns the ground red and turns you to stone. It can be parried with the fleece, but I don't know if the counterattack does anything. She jumps down sometimes but you can jump to avoid damage

Stage 3 - She will now do an attack where she smashes down with her front half. I stayed back and used all my magic with TB, then used Rage and hit away with the blades. I got a prompt shortly thereafter.

Euryale's Chamber:EH Trial -Petrify and crush 5 Sentries

Stoned and broke them with the hammer. This head is great since you can move around while using it.

Euryale's Templeillar Puzzle -(Center Pillar Battle) I used the amulet every time it was up. I used the hammer with tt against the large guys. I grabbed the smaller guys until they died. I was able to get a few collisions in, but with the amulet this fight is not much worth noting.

Euryale's Temple:Stone Crusher - kicked them into each other and smashed any stragglers

Euryale's Temple:Cavern

Titan Minotaur 2 - I activated rage as soon as he came alive and hit away with tt. I was able to hit through his first ground pounds by staying to his right, but he hit me with his follow up spin attack. After that he did his yawning time wasting motion and I was able to get free hits with rage. Once he started spinning again I knew he was low on health but I was too so I went and got the chest. It only took a few more hits to get the prompt. I looked at GMG's run coverage of 2 and for this it said use alt.oh, but I don't know what that is.

Catacombs of the Fallen - Smashed them with the hammer. These guys are easy you just have to watch out for their spinning attack which is pretty fast.

Destiny's Atrium -Break the door

Island of Creation:Walkway - I grabbed and threw the first archers, and lured the legionnaire around the corner. I killed him with the hammer and threw the archers in the way. The second legionnaire I killed by throwing archers at him.

Courtyard of Atropos - Camera issues make this a tougher fight than it should be. These guys are very threatening in groups, but alone are pathetically weak. I tried to keep them at the edge of the screen and I was able to stone and shatter 2. The next 2 I killed by using OS into air OS repeatedly. This is gonna be a really hard fight on PAIN+. I can't think of any strategy besides try to isolate one and grab over and over.

Halls of Atropos (lower)

-(Priests/Minotaur Grunts) grabbed the priests into air OS until they were all dead. I was able to defeat the minotaurs with T into OH for collisions.

- grabbed the harpies. I tried to get ringouts with s6 but there was some kind of invisible wall in front of the cliff.

-(2 Satyrs) I stoned and broke one and killed the other with grabs. I probably could have gotten them both. I need to practice fighting this enemy. I think you can get collisions with T into OH, but they seem to stay back and hit me whenever I try it.

Hall of Atropos (upper)

-(Exterior) just some insects, grabbed them.

-(Interior) there's lots of potential for collisions in here but it's made difficult because the camera seems to go out of it's way to hide as many of the enemies as possible at any given time. -navigate

-(Root 1) launched into OH for collisions

-(Root 2) Same as above. I seem to remember being able to get ring outs here but when I tried with s6 there seemed to be an invisible wall.

-(Root 3) Amulet use trivializes these fights. More launches into OH here. These fights might be annoying on PAIN+ just because it might be difficult to get by without taking damage and these aren't the kind of fights you want to be taking damage on.

Bathouse of Atropos

Perseus "Ha ha, you can't sense my energy! - Goku" "No, but I can hear you moron!" - Freezer

Stage 1 - The only difficult part of the fight. I've never gotten good at fighting him while invisible so I always have used rage on this part to help get past it. I counted the hits and from what I could tell he'd hit you either 1, 2, or 8 times. I would always use t or tt with the hammer after he stopped hitting with rage activated. I also watched out for his sling attacks that I was able to get through this phase with a little over half health.

Stage 2 - Quite easy. His attacks are slow and blocked ones always leave him open for hits. He'll sometimes blind you with his shield which you can block for more free hits .

Stage 3 - Same as stage 1 but he constantly runs away and uses his blinding attack. I saved my magic for TB to hit him while running to speed this phase up.

Stage 4 - Not much to note here, just got him against the wall and defeated him with the hammer.

Courtyard of Atropos

-Do the puzzle and press on.

Lowlands:Exterior Hallway - grabs

Lowlands:SoD Trial - grabs

Lowlands:Bridge -Get across

Lowlands:Crossing

-Cross it

Lowlands:Caves

-(Fight 1) A really rough fight for me. I died dozens of times before I got past it, and I expect more troubles ahead on PAIN+. The first 2 sirens are easy enough with launches into air OS. I spent a lot of time trying to get collisions on the minotaurs with the siren to pretty limited success. You can do it with air OS, but I can't tell when I'm hitting them, The minotaurs look big, but I never saw them flinch or get a prompt that way so I'm not sure if they're standing directly under me or not. I had much better success with launching with t from the spear into OH, but it was very difficult to set this up with the siren constantly throwing magic at me and the occasional unblockable attack. I ended up winning by using rage and smashing the first minotaur as he emerged with the hammer. I got the prompt before he was even completely out of the ground. I killed the siren next with air os from launches, then finished off the last one with the hammer and rage.

-(Fight 2) Easy compared to that last part. When the satyr came out I grabbed it and hit it with tt from the hammer on the ground. Once the big guys come out (I don't know what these things are supposed to be) I hit rage and was able to finish the first satyr as I hit it. I rolled around the room trying to stay away from the satyr while switching to the hammer for tt to damage them when there was some distance. Didn't take too long before it was just me and the satyr who i killed with grabs.

Atlas:Face - grabbed them

Hidden Passageway:Hallway

-The HP returns aren't worth much.  Don't expect the i-frames to help with S1P1 grabs, but they'll be nice so long as you don't get caught coming out of them.  Still, you shouldn't need the grabs for what you're going to be doing.  But I suppose you're allowed to work with them as such for now.  Later you won't want to use them.

Hidden Passageway:Cave

-...

The Caverns:Box 4

-The GoW1 version was just a bit easier than these.  Getting the first two to "O" is ideal before killing them (killing one spawns the Cyclops Berserker).  Using the Berserker against the others is expected.  To note it, bow spam from the AI boundary is nice and cheap (very good for your situation).  The head can sync up your enemies while getting a bit of chip in through Flare.  The chests can get the Berserker stuck for free t0 whoring and the like while you're abusing the AI boundary (with the Enforcers taunting in the background).  GoW:A was a travesty for not enabling such an encounter with mini-bosses as with this one, 2x Chimera, 2x Hades Cerberus, etc.

The Caverns:Flood Chamber

-...

The Caverns:Hallway A

-Use Elevator

The Caverns:Hallway B

-...

The Caverns : Dark Path

-Navigate

The Caverns : Dark Pool

-Ring-out and net abuse come to mind as well.  Trickier in PAIN+, as you might imagine.  Still, partial petrification is a GoWIII exploit to remember.

The Caverns:Hallway C

-...

The Caverns:Box 5

Skorpius

-How many survived before he turned up?  None? Three?

S1P1 - lvl5 will only give you 40% more power to your base.  I mentioned this early on regarding NW and Cestus.

Lots of intricacies to this fight.  Hard to cover them all quickly without just saving myself trouble and giving the copypasta.  If you want to try without doing as much (giving away PAIN+), I'll do as much when I have more time.  One quick and major note being uncovered leg abuse.  That's something you'll be working with in the future.  The Cestus glitch works on this fight too, but not like with the other Onyx cases.

Air evade isn't allowed in PAIN/PAIN+.  I think we allow you to make your own call for gliding with the wings though.  I forget.  It's not a major advantage for this, but it would matter for partial petrification (against us).  Square whoring on covered legs is safest as you can easily cancel out (blocks, evades, etc.).

Like many, you're using the 'all legs red'  before destroying three approach, but which three did you destroy to end the phase?  That's important too.  More recent runs saw me abandon weakening all of them unless I first destroy key legs for uncovered leg abuse to control the fight.  Be it the middle on either side or foremost legs.  Backmost would seem ideal for being uncovered from the start, but testing showed it was the worst idea thanks to some design flaws in the fight (which are detailed in my coverage).

Ah, so it was the front legs first.  So long as you're not too close to his front, he won't shove.  Just grab which is harmless on reverse in S1P2.  Attacking the front like that in S2P2 would require good evade i-frame use (or other i-frames) because the grab will never grab (only do the unblockable whiff for monstrous damage).  The HP returns from spawns really aren't a major aid for these settings though.  Being a vanilla VH run, I'm not too motivated to get into higher tactics as you're able to pretty well take double the damage, spend twice as much magic (face phases will be a joke), use rage (bad as it may be), etc.

S1P2 - Not so rough as you think once you master 't,t' whoring with Cestus.  You're not forced to use just the BoE, but we do acknowledge this as a feat.  It is an exception as such regarding PAIN+.  In your case, Flare would control the group as with Inferno on the spawn.  But really, RoS would cover one such phase and spam of magic also works.  Best call is probably AoS for the BoE.

S2P1 - There is randomization in his retreats (he does it more if you work on the backlegs and must do it at the start of this phase and again when he has one leg left to break).  Clearing out the spawn waves when they bunch up isn't so hard, but carries risk with being open to tail stabs (new move), spawn lock-up, various glitches on us (being frozen in the air, rung-out, etc.) and all that jazz.  You can close the gap with Skorpius quickly and attack him if you like.  Really though, getting back in on him and using 't,t' on an uncovered leg would lock him while killing his help until you're free to one-on-one with his covered legs again.  More on this later.  Regardign the grab, they used the same animation for the grab as for the swipe, but didn't turn off the 'swipe' in the grab.  The grab overrides the swipe unless the tip of the attack lands on you.  Because it is the same animation, people are fooled into expected a simple grab with no damage when reversed, but get a 100 damage unblockabe (at least it doesn't negate i-frames) to the face as instant death for NER and higher runs with this condition.

S2P2 - Square whoring canceled into triangle might be better for DPS.  Not that it matters much. This should be an easy win for you.

S3 - To note it, there are two sweet spots where you can fly straight up to him without having to dodge.

-Use the Boreas Icestorm and go up the vent. Use it again. Do the grapple sequence.

-Which should carry you all the way to PAIN+ (where that won't apply so easily as with reversing to do this).

The Caverns:Flood Chamber

-Proceed

The Caverns:Hallway D

-Get to the rope and cross it. Then deal with the grapples

The Caverns:Box 7

-Boreas it

The Labyrinth:Box 1

-For future reference, get both Talos to "O" before killing either.  Then you can kill them, beat on the Mongrel quickly (for "O"), ride it and let the Rabid Hounds all spawn around you for flamethrower abuse.

NOTE: GoW:A disappoints in the lack of useful cases for riding beasts to take down other big foes.  Also, it almost seems like all statues have the same high HP value and many share absurd resistance.  The rage dump resets freeze to 0 with each use before doing a set amount that won't fully freeze most higher targets.  The spell won't reset the meter, but is just a bit less effective while spread out among multiple targets (using MP rather than the rage meter).  Using the former then the later is good enough for all that can be frozen.  I see no instant shatter option and most foes that can be put in the air won't ever be frozen while in the air (and those that are, won't fall, but if they do, they usually won't shatter).  It's super bad.  All this for a lvl5 unlock just to have the ice spell and lvl3 just to have the rage dump.  Without either, you can never slow, much less freeze in GoW:A without Ice Parasites around (which are rare and only turn up really around themselves and trash like Manticore Spawn on one occassion).  Super lame.  The ice perk is strictly for if you shatter targets from what I can tell.  Damage kills don't count.  Not even kills with t0, t3, s4/s6 or specials (as it is with Soul and Electric).  Fire is like the other two, but I didn't really test for regular hits getting rage drops (probably not).  I'm pretty sure Soul fails to drop HP orbs even when you vaporize in a lot of cases, so don't count on that perk being a factor (even if it was consistent, it wouldn't matter much for VH with a single small orb per kill unless fighting a mess of really weak foes like Parasites).

The Labyrinth:Box 2

-Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 3

-Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 4

-You do have to kill most foes (not necessarily all the Sirens though).  Just use the gent's approach by hiding on the background 'lip' (edge) to let non-Sirens get impaled as much as you can other than riding on Harpy Queens when forced to.  The order of the spike floor varies with playthroughs, but once you learn it for your current one, it won't vary on restart.  Abuse this for the first part.  Using the spikes to kill people is encouraged, but killing everyone is never forced in the runs.  Just honored.

The Labyrinth : Pandora's Cage

-Get her

The Laybrinth:Box 5

-BR spam for "O" on Gorgon Seprents then shattering trash is an easy approach for reference (PAIN+).  You still have other means though.

The Labyrinth:Box 6

-Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 7

-For a fight like this, the way to describe things would be the general tactic for each type of foe in the fight, your priority/order, any hits taken/oddities to note, etc.  There are some off-screen antics by enemies here, but you can do the same.  Foes are focused on Pandora oftentimes which can be good and bad.  Isolating an enemy for the usual quick kill tactic in one-on-one is desired.  With Wraiths you might do OH infinite, but heed the warning of gent regarding it being able to damage you and not having full i-frame protection.  OS to air OS is safer, but still vulnerable if you get someone like another Wraith tossing the blade at you during the ground OS (just the right timing to get you as you come out of i-frames, but before you can defend due to recovery).  Sirens are air OS infinite territory.  Minotaurs are best handled with juggles (usually done against walls for a lock).  Guardians by shield shatter (whatever means you like *glitch Cestus, Cestus, Nemean Roar, etc.*) and treating them like punks.  Maybe even ignoring them for a bit to control the spawn order of things a bit (takes time to feel this out).

I'm not too worried about the details for it at this point.  Again, I offer PAIN+ coverage here (and might sprinkle in some options for NUR+ and other runs if you like).  Your call.  Won't really spoil much for you in this case as it might with figuring out Skorpius.  I already told you too much on that front if you were looking to overcome it on your own.  Even still, there is a lot more to tell about him than there is here (here it isn't so complicated as it is about you pulling off the easily noted *easier to say than do, as it were*).

The Labyrinth:Box Tops

-Get in position for the cutscene

Icarus Vent 3

-Did I ever give you an example of what it is like to cover these?  This one is especially amusing.

Three Judges:Lower

Hades Cerberus Breeder

S1 - With upgrades, I suppose it is fine to use t0/t3 chip if you applied AI boundary abuse.  Otherwise, it is all about dog kicks from at least medium range (to be safe).  There are intricacies to how he varies with each 'stage' regarding birthing in particular (less spawning and more charging).  Bow chip is okay, but probably better for pulling him to you if that is what you want to do.  One can face him in direct combat (good for NUR+ if you have the skill for it), but that's no joke.  Easier to abuse the AI boundary.  's,t,t,t' really doesn't apply to BoE.  That's BoA/BoC (aside from GoS and GoW:A).  Most in vanilla will save RoS and AoS (MP) to blast away S2 and S3.  I forget the order. I think it was RoS focus during S2 (ignoring the Satyr) then running away and chipping with dog kicks to finish it off...maybe a single AoS cast.  S3 for AoS spam until empty to kill off the injured Satyr and mostly finish the fresh spawn (won't be two if you don't kill the one from S2) while getting HCB to "O" leaving a simple OS spam fight at worst.  There is the CoH lvl3+ approach with petrication too.  Air OS/OH for Satyr killing to get HCB alone is a good early NUR+ approach.  If you get really good with AI boudnary abuse, you can use ground OS spam to annihilate this fight quickly (leaving just a lone HCB for dog kicking at).

S2 - Using the bow to chip is okay, but it will pull him to you.  Let's see what the video offers.  Probably boundary abuse with air OS on Satyrs until dead. *checks* Ah, so the gent did cover ground OS along the boundary.  To note it, what I refer to is doing this with HCB far away and the Satyr along the AI boundary such that you can get three in a row (killing it) without HCB attacking you (riding you of the distraction very quickly).  This is what I use for PAIN+.

S3 - AoS spam works fine here.  The ending is predictable enough.

Three Judges:Upper:Section A

-Smash

-Pity about weak collisions.  Ring-out applies with the gap between Section A and B, but that can be hard to abuse.

Three Judges:Upper:Section B

Three Judges:Lower

-Break it

Icarus Vent 4

- Avoided the obstacles

The Labyrinth:Box Tops

-Get going

Chain of Balance

-Keep going

Chamber of the Flame

-Up

Upper Chamber of the Flame

-Turn it

Zeus

NOTE: Another continuity error sacrificed on the alter of visual rectons.  One among a great many, my friend.

S1P1 - Plenty of approaches, but to be frank, you need only t1 into air OS over and over.  If you want more info, I'll share.  One tip is air blocking or parrying the diagonal dive he does.

S1P2 -...

Olympus : Pavilion

S2 - Just get close and block.  He'll keep doing blockables until the fight times out.

Gaia:Chest:Interior *Heart*

S3P1 - More t1 to air OS.

S3P2 - Clones don't defend themselves.  Get rid of it quick.  Same tacitc for Zeus.  If you lock him, there isn't more to say.  If you want, I can go over some of the bulls*** this fight can toss your way though.

---

>VH NUR

Noted.

>ttt

In the first bit?  You should use 's,t,t,t'.  Beyond that, you won't have "t2" to allow the quick path.

>highlights

Anything that differs from before, really.  For PAIN+, I'll basically want full coverage.

>Icarus vent coverage I have not seen an example. It feels like writing out how I did it would be harder than doing it.

>Continuity error and visual retcons I'm not sure what you're making reference to here.

>just a few

Probably three.  If you get lucky with the final blows, you will have none upon restart of S1P1.

>example

Have a gander:

"-2/7, 4/5, 10/11, 4/5, 2, fireballs and garbage, get atop the chain *center* for 12, 11, center (...right, left, left, right, left, right, left, center...), center (...left, center, left, center, left, center), move through 'fans', down, up, down"

>references

To more errors.  Would you like examples of the latter regarding Kratos himself?

I'll be working on the GoWIII VH NUR and GoWII run soon enough.  Time is going to be short for me this weekend.  I've got an optional job to prepare my sleep schedule for.  Monday is going to be two working shifts seperated by a few hours for sleep.  Changing the schedule back afterwards for seeing "Evil Dead" and getting back on track will be rough.

>Icarus vent example My computer and tv aren't in the same room so it sounds like a nightmare to have to go back and type every time you avoid anything. It'd take forever. I'd forget the specifics if I did it all and then went to type it out, it's mostly based on memorization and twitch reflexes.

>Visual errors and retcons I didn't know there was a visual retcon at that particular spot. What changed? I know in 2 Zeus had some kind of something at the bottom of his beard, and his beard wasn't fat dreadlocks. The only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Kratos' tattoo being narrowed after the first game, Gaia was orange in 2 while in 3 she is gray, in 2 when you watch the past from the blade of the gods Kratos has the scar on his stomach, and for some reason his tattoo is a very pale orange color instead of the usual dark red. Cronos has no chest hair in 3.

"Real men wax" - Fabio

Mount Olympus

Gaia:Shoulder

-...

Gaia:Arm

-...

Leviathan 1 - (Standing 1) Should be 's,t,t,t' with BoA.

(Ceiling) ...

(Wall) ...

(Standing 2) ...

Mountainside:Exterior A

-grabs

Mountainside:Exterior B

-...

Moutainside:Interior:Tomb of Ares

-...

Gaia:Chest:Exterior

Leviathan 2

Stage 1 - I already share the copypasta with some alternate methods here?

Stage 2 - ...

Gaia:Chest:Interior

-...

Poseidon

Stage 1 - As before, you can ignore the leftside claw and glide at the camera over his 'wrath'.  Baiting claws on one side opens up the other to free hits.  This is more a PAIN+ concern.

Gaia:Hand

Stage 2 - What hits did you use to chip him during big stab?  t0?  t3?  As for 3x stab, did you read my notation?  The early method was to evade under/past the second stab, but I also listed a later tactics for an even longer opening for 's,t,t,t' from the Apollo run I left unfinished (themed run rather than challenge run).

Gaia:Head

Stage 3 - ...

River Styx

-Swim

Realm of Hades

-...

Palace of Hades:Exterior

(AoS Trial) ...

(Rope) Note that you are free to copy/paste this coverage for bits where it does not change to make it easier on yourself with repeat playthroughs. When it changes, obviously note it (and in good detail).

Gorgon Serpent Chamber

-...

Peirithous Puzzle

-That's a really long string for him and this is BoE now.  Just starting with t1 would have been fine.  For PAIN+, consider baiting his charge past the first Archer platform (AI boundary) then hitting him from behind while watching for any signs of his melee turning him enough to hit you.

Harpy Chamber

-...

Underworld:Cliffside

-Navigate

Three Judges:Lower *Trials of Erebus*

-...

-With the bow and BR, I suppose it wouldn't be hard to take out the Lost Souls quickly while ignoring the Minotaur.

-Such a shame about the 'Hooded Gorogn' in terms of appearance and combat design.  Serpents weren't favored due to the lost false OS, but they're far better than this GoW:A bastardization of them.

-...

Caverns of Hades:Bridge

-You big on OH infinite, then?  As before, ring-outs, oil pot explosion, OS to air OS infinite, camera abuse, AI boundary abuse, collisions (using the Olympus Sentries too), etc.

Caverns of Hades:Bramble Vent Puzzle

-...

Caverns of Hades:Hades Arms

-Any fight you can normally skip (no special technique needed) is allowed.  We just encourage killing everyone.  It is not forced.  We know this section to be a waste of time.

Palace of Hades:Outer Atrium

-It is fast when you get used to baiting their charge well outside their territory.  Then you repeatedly hit them for free, block their stun counter (last one) and use "O".

Caverns of Hades:The Forge

-Lever

Caverns of Hades:Gazebo

-(Dogs) ...

Hades Path

(RoS Trial) -...

Palace of Hades:Exterior

(Twin Hades Cerberus) Again, the AI boundary applies to the edges except the gate itself.  From there, keep outside their aggro range, provoke taunts, land t0/t3 to chip for "O" and use those grab openings.  Simple.

Palace of Hades : Door of Hades

-...

Palace of Hades:Lower Chamber

-...

Palace of Hades:Mezzanine

-You can OS through the 'fence' blocking the balcony from the rest of the room (better against Rabid Hounds).  The AI boundary is the Hallway ahead.  The balancy allows for ring-out (better for Minotaurs).  Clearing out the Hounds leaves a simple fight.  Grabs suffice for that aim.  Regarding CG use for ring-out, note that during some animations it will merely push them back (glitch).  In others (like after some of their attacks), it will cause the flip (knockback for ring-out).  If they block, nothing comes of it.  My old notes might denote all their openings, but I believe it was just a matter of one or all of their whiffed attacks left them open to CG for ring-out as is intended for it (rather than needing s6 for it).  Besides them, you would need to use T then square slap juggle them away from the platform (maybe some bow shots along the way).  This with the options you have at this point.

Palace of Hades:Upper Chamber

-...

Palace of Hades:Lower Chamber *again*

-...

Palace of Hades:Upper Chamber *again*

-...

Hades

S1P1 - (Stand) You could afford to make this mostly about bow spam from range.  PAIN+ is where you'll be needing to do these same tactics.

S1P2 - (Wall) If you keep full range, it can be all about the bow.  For PAIN+, it will be time to learn the upclose method and particulars.

S1P3 - (Meat) You could, but it isn't worth the trouble (returns are too small for higher settings).

S2P1 - (Stand) ...

S2P2 - (Wall) ...

S2P3 - (Meat) ...

S3 - (Wall) Bow spam applies again.  You can use 's,s,s,s,s,t' during his Geyser (as it slowly follows you) landing each hit as you move around Hades (not at him) until you direct Spirit his way then move away quickly and repeat.  The Mongrels are blockable, but the summon animation for them is not.

S4 - (Tug-of-War) ...

S5 - (CoH) ...

Palace of Hades:Soul Summon Trial

-...

Cavern of Hades:The Forge

-Pass through

-Noted.  Though CoH have a slight power advantage in NUR and 'Curse' can stick around a bit which is useful for some encounters (not as reliable for Enforcer locks).  Getting both Talos to "O" before grabbing them is suggested.  When you have magic, AoS on the hounds to thin them out (and grabs).  With a lone Talos, the win is secured.

Hades Path *yet again*

-...

Olympia : Door

-Cast Gaia down

-Better to aim for ring-out.  They create openings for you after their attacks.  Group them up with t0 if need be.  Maybe even land s6 on the group as they are recovering aside from the likes of CG or T into CG.

Olympia:Cave

-Navigate

Olympia:Building A

-...

-(Centaur) Haven't learned the glitch for ringing-out the Centaur here, I see.  There is a glitch "O" for this one where a reverse into some slaps, bow shots, etc. can send him to "O" early (before his armor breaks and enough damage was dealt to do it normally).  Tossing him into the AI boundary (path to next area) allows for some cheap ground handlings with chip damage.  The same boundary is good for firing off Inferno towards where they gather up in the bottom-left side.  There are a few places to stand for the ring-out, but usually it involves baiting his charge as you get yourself on top of some of the structures (rail) blocking ring-out.  He'll be reversed higher than usual and possibly you with him, so be ready to jump back to land.  He may or may not float in the air for a second or so before falling.

Olympia:Ballista

Chimera

(Snake) Air bow spam during his attacks works well.  I'd still suggest 's,s,t' for the lock though.

(Lion) More bow spam is good here.  Abuse the range advantage.

(Goat) Lots of air bow spam makes him look silly.  For PAIN+, you will have to really learn to land your enders as he comes out of hops while being safe should he change to another attack.  Notes can be provided as necessary.

Olympia:Chasm

-Harpy ride

-...

Olympia:Building B:Interior:Hallway

-Didn't take the pot out for them?

Olympia:Building C:Wall

-Navigate

Olympia:Eos Cave Door

-With AI boundary abuse, this can be very easy.  To note it, you can deliberately let the Cyclops remove you, then get back on him for another use if I recall right.  I know there is an exploit for getting more uses of the ridable foes, but I forget the details.  Not really necessary here though.

Eos Cave:Corridor 1

-...

Eos Cave:Corridor 2

-...

Eos Cave:Catwalk 1

-Probably should have spammed HoH 'Flare' like I mentioned before.

Eos Cave:Corridor 3

-...

Eos Cave:Rope

-...

Eos Cave:Corridor 4A

-...

Eos Cave:Corridor 4B

-...

Eos Cave:Broken Bridge

-...

Eos Cave:Cliffside

-Better to provoke their burrow, take them where I noted and ring them out with CG.

Eos Cave:Catwalk 2

-CG on their burrow also works well.

Chain of Balance:Icarus Vent 1

- avoided the obstacles

Chain of Balance:Scaffolding

-Navigate

Chain of Balance:Icarus Vent 2

- avoided the obstacles

The Caverns:Box 1

-Burn bramble.

The Caverns:Box 2

-Try out abuse of the 'lip'/ledge yet?

The Caverns:Box 3

-Listen to Hermes then get up the Chain of Balance

Chamber of the Flame

-Unveil 3 frescos, read them and watch the cutscenes

The Olympian Citadel A

-Proceed to the wall from the walk way, slide down, cross the grapple point and land on the burning, breaking bridge.

-(Bridge) ...

-Pursue Hermes.

-...

-Grab hold the Crane, pull the lever, cross the gap, make your way across another breaking bridge.

-...

-Pursue Hermes past the portcullis. Use the catapult to reach Athena's Statue.

Grand Vestibule:Lower

Hermes

NOTE: Hermes was tied in with Wrestling and Boxing.  Didn't really show in the GoW version of him with all his trash talk, running away and slaps.

-A lot of your options won't hit him.  The bow is especially obvious.  t0/t3 as he rests while outside his aggro range is best.  If one could bait his dropkick (not possible) and reverse it, we could make a joke of this fight in all save for NGR+ conditions just with that alone.

Grand Vestibule:Upper

-...

The Olympian Citadel B

-Well done.  To note it, these foes target the Civilians by priority.  Also, the two extremes can be AI boundaries while the majority of the balcony for ring-out is also an AI boundary (good for the Enforcers).

Upper Chamber of the Flame

-...

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Hallway A

-Not familiar with that approach from GoW1?  You can lead any of these foes outside the hall (into the Chamber of the Flame) to break their AI.

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Muse Music Box

-Puzzle

-It'll be worse in PAIN+.  Consider just baiting grabs and reversing over and over for "O" then shattering the grouped up (hopefully) Guardians.

-Move on up

Upper Chamber of the Flame

-Use the crank

Upper Chamber of the Flame:Hallway B

-OS to air OS works great.  If you get them beyond the AI barrier, the other can't interfere (then you could use OH infinite too though).

The Forum

Hercules

S1 - ...

S2 -  Did you ram into him during his attacks?

S3 - t0 also works well.

S4 - (Cestus) The first phase of this is easy with square whoring and block/bow/evade cancels.  Then you need to be ready to defend as he fights out of the lock to strike back.  NGR+ does make things a bit more interesting in general for this encounter.  Bow chip is good.  For his wall tosses, you can just move away, evade to the side, etc.

Olympus Sewer:Nemean Roar trial

-(trial) Didn't opt to NR spam?

-(Phalanx) Shall you bring them to the water for CG pokes to their shield, grabbing those without a shield and killing them?  This helps avoid DQs.

Poseidon's Chamber:Main Chamber

-Yes, the main hall.  Not sure why magic was needed though.

Poseidon's Chamber:Hyperion Gates

-(Puzzle) ...

-(Elevator)...

-(Bronze Talos) PAIN+ will encourage you to use it as you slowly chip away with the Blades.  You won't be able to bow spam from range there though.

Poseidon's Chamber:Halls

-...

Poseidon's Chamber:Main Chamber *again*

-At least it made the fight go quicker.  You'll be glad of it for PAIN+.  As for more threatening foes to kill with water, pity there aren't such hazards around for HCB to just run into.  What a waste of time he is.  Making him charge into it would be hilarious.  GoW:A could use a water hole right in the middle of the ToA or Shoulder of Apollo fights.  Let heavier foes cast themselves in.

Upper Gardens:Bridges

-Navigate

Aphrodite's Chamber

-Go through the gate

Cavern of Hades:The Forge *yet again*

-Go to Tartarus

Cavern of Hades : Path to Tartarus

-Kill Lost Souls

-(Centaur) ...

Gates of Tisiphone

-(2x Chimera) Get them to multiple blow up some pots?

-Do the puzzle

Pit of Tartarus : Path

-...

Cronos

-Blind him

Cronos:Right Hand

-...

Cronos:Right Forearm

-...

Cronos:Right Hip

-Suits me fine.

Cronos:Navel

-Targeting is infamous in this entry and this fight highlights why as with a few other cases (that Talos/Hound fight is another such case).  You can't make him resist the auto-target, so you have to mind that it will do this and position yourself and foes accordingly before trying for a grab.

-Attack Onyx

-...

Cronos:Left Hand

(Wall) ...

(Floor) ...

(Ceiling) ...

Cronos:Left Arm

-Navigate

Cronos:Left Shoulder

-...

Cronos:Throat

-Navigate then do mini-game escape

Cronos:Navel

-Break it and do mini-game

Cronos:Face

-Break onyx and finish this encounter

Cavern of Hades:The Forge *for the last time*

-Get the whips and end Hephaestus

Aphrodite's Chamber

-Passing through

Upper Gardens:Bridges

(Nemesis Rage trial) It's more like a projectile CR-lite.  Charon's Mask is able to fire and not miss (if it does, it costs nothing).  It also spreads between targets while instantly destroying any armor.  CR ties foes up like this does, but does a better job of it and damage while the full version explodes to send foes away at the end.

Daedalus' Workshop

-Pass through

Olympus Garden:Maze

-The damage at lvl1 is only 40% less than lvl5.  It is a high base damage case like Cestus.  Tirades are 'short' without MAX upgrades though.  Still good.  The specials are worth having, but aren't needed for this to be a great weapon.  It's for set-ups with the launch (no great knockback option *just an okay one* like SoD had nor bounce *just a meh one* like the Blades).  't1' is the best tool for it.  Set-ups up juggles, air juggles, OH, air OS, air CG (for elevated knockback), etc.  That move is weak, but the tirade for it is quite strong.  Note there are AI boundaries here and you can ring-out the lighter foes.

Olympus Garden:Hall

-(Satyrs) Hotel's approach withusing 3x ground OS on one Satyr at the AI boundary while the other is outside aggro range (stuck taunting), I see. Master this for my adaptation of it for HCB and you'll be sitting pretty in PAIN+. If not, you can at least manage the one ground OS per opening like gent shows.

Olympus Gardens : Puzzle

-Do it and cross the gap

-...

Hidden Passageway:Cave

-...

The Caverns:Box 4

-Whips aren't great for this fight unless you're really good at evading the attacks of the group.  It lacks a means to control the fight well.  's5' is about the only way to reliably hit stun them.  If you're interested, I can share tactics from my Whips runs (I have runs with each weapon *including NG+ glitch to have them early to test how well they work in other parts of the game...which tends to be great if you were wondering*).

The Caverns:Flood Chamber

-Pass on through

The Caverns:Hallway A

-Use Elevator

The Caverns:Hallway B

-...

The Caverns : Dark Path

-Navigate

The Caverns : Dark Pool

-...

The Caverns:Hallway C

-Not opting to shred them with tirades?  Perhaps this could have been done for fun with MAX whips for long tirades.

>memorization and twitch reflexes

Not too keen on either.  Being able to anticipate through notes helps me.

>nightmare to note

It is.

>Visual errors and retcons
Just concerning what is wrong with GoW:A's Kratos, his shin guards are wrong, his sandles are wrong, the backs of his hands aren't partially covered with his wrist/forearm wrap, he lacks the bandages he had before and after this point in the story, his body is smaller (unless he lost mass and gained it back all in one entry), his 'belt' has the wrong pattern and his skirt is from the remanants of his God Armor rather than the clean (or tattered *either would be fine in this case*) cloth used all the way to GoW1.  They're just sloppy.  It has no story reason.  They got the 'Blades' right up until the MAX upgrade doesn't match the MAX BoC in GoW1 (more like lvl3 or lvl4 rather than lvl5).  This besides the aura not changing and the markings gained are not the same as in GoW1.  I don't need to point out the differences with Ares, Poseidon, etc. in depiction, but those are statues, so I can overlook it...until you note that they intend for those looks to be their new form (which is awful).  I just hope they don't mean for the generalized statue of Apollo to be their new intent for him.  Glad that didn't come to be.  That's hilariously wrong to the point that taking liberties does not cut it.

>real men wax

Fabio, pls.

---

The Caverns:Box 5

Skorpius

-Didn't kill his back-up?

S1P1 - My offer for more tips here still stands.  Of course, you will not have seen it until after giving this coverage though.  I was a bit late.

S1P2 - Got good news for you on that front, old boy. It's an exception.  If you want bonus points, you're free to f*** with it as you describe.  I've had my taste.  It sucks.  As for chipping with the BoE in PAIN+ like this...I forget if it can be done. I think so.  Not really going to happen for Apollo though. Too little damage.

S2P1 - To note it, some hits don't hurt covered legs.  Nemean Roar, t1, t2, etc.  They do hit the uncovered legs though.  Thus 't,t' by them to lock Skorpius while easily killing all spawns then switching to 's,s,s' with block/bow/evade cancels as you hit an uncovered leg for stun while chipping a covered leg near it to make progress.  When he tries for tail slam, keep away, close in quickly to hit an uncovered leg (denying any birthing) and keep at it.

S2P2 - RoS is better with square whoring up until the later moves take too long to come out.  Heavy cancel and loop the process.  Something like 's,s,s,t'.

S3 - Icarus Vent to mini-game

-Use the Boreas Icestorm and go up the vent. Use it again. Do the grapple sequence.

-...

The Caverns:Flood Chamber

-Proceed

The Caverns:Hallway D

-Get to the rope and cross it. Then deal with the grapples

The Caverns:Box 7

-Boreas it

The Labyrinth:Box 1

-...

The Labyrinth:Box 2

-Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 3

-Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 4

-That Sirens are spike immune is stupid.

The Labyrinth : Pandora's Cage

The Laybrinth:Box 5

-It won't be bad in PAIN+.  They can petrify allies, but it is easier to just BR at the Gorgons until they reach "O", use it and shatter all others (maybe the other Gorgons just to be rid of them).

The Labyrinth:Box 6

-Puzzle

The Labyrinth:Box 7

-I didn't get a chance to tell you in time how to approach noting this fight.  I can give you PAIN+ coverage to look over if you like.  Or maybe reformat it with the actual tactics removed just to give you an idea of how to structure it.  That the Guardians are a pain due to shield antics is no surprised.  It is worse in PAIN+.  Far worse.  For Minotaurs, you will want to get them by walls, T into 's,s,s,s,s,s' juggle into landing Valor/s6 to wall splat them and keep up that lock until they die or something forces you to move away from it before isolating it again (maybe baiting charge and leading him away from his friends).

The Labyrinth:Box Tops

-Get in position for the cutscene

Icarus Vent 3

- Avoided the obstacles

Three Judges:Lower

Hades Cerberus Breeder

S1 - ...

S2 - A classic approach.  3x OS along the AI boundary is suggested for PAIN+ though.  Positioning takes practice, but isn't too hard here.

S3 - Odd glitch.  Lucky.

Three Judges:Upper:Section A

-Smash

-...

Three Judges:Upper:Section B

-Smash.

-...

Three Judges:Lower

-Break it

Icarus Vent 4

- Avoided the obstacles

The Labyrinth:Box Tops

-Get going

Chain of Balance

-Keep going

Chamber of the Flame

-Up

Upper Chamber of the Flame

-Turn it

Zeus

S1P1 - t1 to air OS.  Nothing else.

S1P2 - ...

Olympus : Pavilion

S2 - ...

Gaia:Chest:Interior *Heart*

S3P1 - ...

S3P2 - t1 to air OS.  Can't stress it enough.  He doesn't launch with t1? Use it again.  He dodges the air OS into shockwave? Leap over shockwave and launch him for another air OS attempt.  Keep him locked and he won't use more clones.

~More later.  I've got work to attend.

Atlas Innards:Spine Chamber - grabbed the harpies, then finished off the satyrs with ground OS.

Atlas Innards:Battle Arena

Titan Minotaur 3 " See? The stronger fighter always wins! It's easy to understand as a flowchart!" - Ken Masters.

Stage 1 - I followed this video for this fight http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xffGaObLD_c. I used the trick there to skip the first phase. Is this allowed for PAIN+?. There is a comment there that says it doesn't work on the collection version. I have the Collection with 1 and 2 in HD and it worked for me. Is it the version with 1, 2, and 3 that it doesn't work?

Stage 2 - I used r1 to slide down when he was about to throw it.

Stage 3 - Like the video showed I rolled clockwise when he did the pound to get off 2-3 PS with the spear. I used rage the first few times since I had it. When he did the spin I rolled away and came back for a single PS. Not much to note aside from that. Does PS at that range really do more damage than switching to the hammer for tt? I used up my mana on TB since I had it.

Atlas Innardsuzzle Room -Navigate ahead

Atlas Innards:Hades Nymph Hive Chamber - Grabs into throwing them into the hives, or just crushing the hives with the hammer.

Atlas Innards:Climbing Section -grabs

Atlas Innardsuzzle Room

Atlas:Hanging Platforms

-(Atlas Lift) This fight is one of the more difficult in the game in my opinion. Once the harpies start diving it can get so that they never stop and it requires so much attention just to avoid them that i would get hit by a legionnaire and die. I ended up beating this part because I got lucky with the Head of Eurayle. When I dropped to the platform I immediately stoned and broke the first legionnaire with the hammer. I then used Icarus Ascension to launch some harpies, clearing out all of them temporarily. I was incredibly lucky since I was able to stone both the remaining legionnaires with 1 being offscreen. Once I noticed I got them both I used MotK to break them. There was 1 harpy left that I killed with a grab. Any advice or copypasta you might have on this fight for PAIN+ is greatly appreciated. I see this being a very troublesome fight for runs where I can't abuse magic, and I can only assume that Icarus Ascension is now allowed on PAIN+ either.

Atlas' Arm:Wall A - Killed them with rocks

Atlas' Arm:Rock Puzzle -Do it

Atlas' Arm:Wall B -Navigate it

Atlas' Arm:Hand

-Break the Chain, resist Atlas' grip

"Do you leave a light on after bedtime? Because I get a little scared in the dark sometimes. If it's a strange place." - John Coffey

-(AQ trial) Defeated them with AQ.

The Great Chasm -Navigate ahead

Palace of the Fatesalace Courtyard A -(Entrance) Fun fight. I started by killing the right beast lord with grabs. The other one climbed onto the cyclops. I stayed away until they, and the fire throwers stopped respawning. I grabbed the lord off the cyclops and was able to get the prompt on the cyclops with OH from the beast lord. This approach worked this time but there is probably a safer way to do it.

Palace of the Fates:Spiked Floor Chamber

-(Spike Room) Not as bad as I remembered it. I tried to stay away from the insects and I was able to clear almost all of them out by reflecting their shots back which knocked them onto spikes. There was only 1 alive when I had to pull the stone. I stunned it with CR. This will be much harder on PAIN+ -Get the Crank

Palace of the Fatesalace Courtyard B -Puzzle

East Auditorium:Hallway A -Navigate

East Auditorium:Hallway B - kicked the dogs for collision damage and threw the legionnaires into each other when I got a prompt.

-(Wave 1) MotK through the gate

-(Wave 2) same

-(Wave 3) I ended up using http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCYDX63ZrXc&list=PL101351A349E86B71&index=14 as a reference. When I entered the room I rolled over and hit the priest with the blades one time, then I ran back and grabbed the dog on the right, kicking it into some legionnaires who had spawned. The priest teleported over, so things were how I'd hoped, with all the enemies behind the podium. I was able to hold this a short while until the priest died from collisions. When he died i rolled over to the lower left, turned on rage, used tt with the hammer while keeping up CR to kill of the priests. I was fortunate that the enemies seemed to want to come and fight me instead of hitting the translator, when the priests died I used up the rest of my rage meter and magic on CR and tt attacks. When those ran out there were only 3-4 guys left who I finished off with the hammer. for PAIN+ I'm gonna have to figure out a safe way to get in some collisions while keeping the translator safe.

-Crush his Head, get the key, open the door and head through Hallway C and Hallway A to Palace Courtyard B then use the key on the Ram Door.

West Auditorium:Spiked Wall Hallway

-I grabbed and threw them into each other, focusing on grabbing the smaller ones for the 360 toss. This part must be rough in no grabs no upgrades run.

West Auditorium:Garden of the Gods

-Hear yourself, break wall, navigate ledge leading ahead

West Auditorium:Sacrificial Chamber - I was able to knock them into the back left corner and keep them there with tt from the hammer. pulled the lever when I got the prompt.

West Auditorium:Blood Tunnel Chamber -Navigate it.

West Auditorium:Iced Phoenix Puzzle -Do the puzzle and proceed.

West Auditorium:Nymph Nest Chamber - Broke the one on the ground with the hammer. Grabbed the ones I could reach. When i got to the top I broke one hive, cleared out the insects with s attacks, then broke the second hive.

West Auditoriumantheon of Atropos - I was able to defeat the first 2 breeders by repeatedly throwing the seeds into each other, then into them. This made pretty short work of them. When the next breeder came out I used rage and defeated it very quickly with the hammer. The armored fellows I finished off by blocking their attacks and retaliating with hammer blows.

West Auditorium:Fate Statue Puzzle

-Do it

Auditorium of Atropos

-Save the Translator then crush him

-Get Warrior Skull, open door

West Auditorium:Thermal Lift Puzzle -Do it

Palace of the Fates:Courtyard B - I stoned and broke the first one, leaving me with slightly less than enough magic to stone the second. This fight I won by letting them chase me until they yelled where I could get some free hits in with the hammer. As I played through this fight it felt pretty easy to bait out their taunt. I know there is a way to ring out here, but I'm not sure what the procedure for doing so is.

The Undeground:Bone Crusher

-(Spiked Ceiling Elevator) Used AQ to knock them into the spikes. If any survived I got them with the hammer. I imagine the PAIN+ version of this fight will mainly be launches into the spikes.

The Underground:Lava Chamber A:Hallway A

- grabbed them on the rope

The Underground:Lava Chamber A:Hallway B

- I was able to kill almost all of them by using the fleece to stone them all. I was able to get some collisions too, but I mainly killed them by stoning them. For PAIN+ is it possible to ring out the gorgons here?

The Underground:Lava Chamber A:Hallway C

- Killed them by grabbing the archers into 360 toss. Cleared them out quite efficiently in this fairly enclosed area.

The Underground:Lava Chamber B -Navigate ahead

Phoenix Chamberlatform A -Navigate ahead.

Phoenix Chamberlatform B -I got skeletons and legionnaire alike with tt from the hammer. I'll need a bit more finesse for PAIN+, but this got me by for now.

Phoenix Chamber:Boreas Puzzle - I was able to kill them with the spikes by knocking them both back with a parry into counter from the safe area

Phoenix Chamber:Hallway -Navigate ahead

Phoenix Chamber:Flame Wall Chamber - A fun fight, if a bit frustrating. I pushed the Icarus statue forward up behind the first curb, then went back behind the AI boundary. I stoned the legionnaires and broke them with MotK from behind the boundary. When they were dead I pushed the statue forward, clearing out the harpies with alt.OH as I went. After I pulled the lever I once again retreated to behind the barrier and killed them by stoning and breaking them.

Phoenix Chamberlatform B -I was able to defeat the minotaurs by using t with the spear to launch into OH for collisions. At first it was hard to set up the angles right, but with a few tries I got it down. It became easier once a few of the skeletons died from unintentional ring outs or being hit by collisions. The third minotaur I found easy to set up the angles because it was just 1 skeleton and 1 minotaur.

-Pull the lever

Phoenix Chamber:Circular Stairwell - Grabs into throws.

Phoenix Chamber:Exit Chamber -Pull the lever

Palace of the Fatesalace Courtyard B -Use Boreas

Palace of the Fates:Interior A -Chain

Palace of the Fates:Interior B -Blow Horn, navigate to door, open it

Palace of the Fates:Upper Palace A:Elevator Puzzle - Grabs into OH for collsions

Palace of the Fates:Upper Palace B -Use the levers

Palace of the Fates:Upper Palace Balace Window

Last Spartan "I take her to the floor, looking for the moment when the world seems right, and I tear into the guts of something in the night." - Bruce Springsteen - I hit him a few times with TB when the fight began, I jumped from side to side until I was out of mana, then I used rage and hit him with tt from the hammer until the fight ended.

Palace of the Fatesalace Courtyard B

Kraken "I'm so hungry I could eat a plankton" - Leviathan the Tidehunter - I didn't use a lot of finesse in this fight. I'll have to clean it up some for later

Stage 1 - used rage and hit the left tentacle with tt from the hammer until it loosened it's grip. During the vent phase I floated towards him, hit him with t from the hammer, and occasionally a second 2 if I could pull off the weapon switch trick.

Knob 1 - Climbed it and broke it with t hits

Stage 2 - I went to the left tentacle, used CR a couple of times and hit it with the hammer without using rage. I was able to get it loosened without taking damage. I used the same tactic for the vent phase as before. I got quite lucky as I was able to get through this without taking any damage, leaving me at full for phase 3.

Knob 2 - got it with s attacks. I had to repeat the second phase one time, but it didn't take as long.

Stage 3 - I used rage and went to town on the 2 tentacles, right first then left. I was able to absorb all the damage I took although it was pretty close. I will check up on some videos for PAIN+. I know there are safe spots. -Cross the Bridge

Palace of the Fateshoenix Platform -Tame the beast and ride

Spire:Temple of the Fates: -Do the puzzle

Temple of the Fates:Throne of Lahkesis

Lahkesis "I do believe I warned you, miss. I have no sympathy for evildoers!" - Dudley

S11 - Not too much to this fight on my current settings. I used the hammer exclusively. She would do a projectile attack, while I reflected back, a 3 hit melee attack, which I parried and countered, and a delayed double projectile which I reflected back. After any of those I was able to get in a tt combo. I used rage early to help speed things along. If she deflected my projectile back I'd just keep deflecting until it hit her.

S12 - She has a couple of new attacks. A Cronos' Rage looking green ball, which can be blocked, but is often used right before the double projectile, forcing me to block twice in rapid succession. She will also throw out her stick and drop some attacks, I just moved out of the way of these. She'd sometimes do a drop down attack and I'd use the grapple points to avoid it. I was more careful in this phase, and mainly attacked after getting a knockdown.

Stage 2 - I played it safe here, staying on the grapple points when she electrified the floor. I shot her with TB as much as possible and reflected her beams back until I was able to knock her down. I ended up dying every time I tried to take the fight to her in the air so I decided to do it slow and steady.

Athens:Sword Bridge

Atropos "Tell me child, do you see me ruling Nosgoth?" - Kain "Yes! Yes! I see it now!" - Umah - "And do you believe that Nosgoth rightly belongs to me" - Kain "I do! I believe it now! Please!" - Umah "Then you may die knowing the truth" - Kain - I shot her with TB every chance I got. I threw the legionnaires into one another for collisions to kill them. When she threw her green balls i reflected them back, and when she got next to the blade I damaged her by throwing them into her for collisions. I wish I could note more, but that's about all there was to it.

Temple of the Fates:Throne of Lahkesis

Sisters of Fate "Until you display some dignity, I'm afraid I cannot take you seriously." - Dudley

S11 - I had quite a bit of trouble with this fight. I kept accidentally deflecting Atropos' beam back at her right as Lakhesis fainted, causing the whole act of getting her there to be wasted. After a few tries I started to get a feel for how much damage it took to cause her to faint, so I could judge when to stop getting close to Atropos to make her retreat. The fight is basically the same as Lakhesis S12, but with Atropos shooting beams at you. Her beam that sweeps across the room I used the grapple points to avoid, and her other beam I tried to stay away from or trick through to avoid having her retreat at the wrong time. Like I mentioned I tried to keep Atropos away as much as possible to keep things simple. The strategy was the same, but with more distractions. I blocked and parried her attacks, using tt with the hammer to damage her as best as I could. If I was able to knock her down I used rage very briefly to increase the damage I got in.

Mirror 1 - Ran over and used tt with the hammer until the timer was up.

S12 - The same as the first one, but Atropos will now always come out of the same mirror. (There may be other differences, but I didn't notice any) I tried to keep Atropos away until Lakhesis fainted, damaging lakhesis with the hammer.

Mirror 2 - same as before

Stage 2 - I rolled towards her, using rage and hitting with tt since my health was over half. Fortunately it didn't take very long at all to get the prompt and end the fight. What is the preferred way of avoiding her spreading green columns attack? I would guess bow tricking but I'm not sure. -Crush the Mirror

Euryale's Temple:Cavern

Titan Minotaur 2

-Abusing the flank and laying into him with 't,t' of BH works great (more so with cancels).  You can get over the spin or keep away.  Tricking it is unreasonable as with tricking pounds.  The 'taunt' is rare and not reliable (nice when it happens).  The sleep spot controls the fight well.  You can keep looping the opening damage over and over while taking out Harpies as he sleeps (and this can be done cheaply from the rope at the start *climb up it, leap off and air OS infinite on one against the other*).

>GMG

The way this is worded can make it sound like you're not talking about me while speaking to me (about me *I'm GMG*).  But that's fine.

>alt.OH

Press and hold "O" during some "Slam" type OH cases.  Slam is the classic OH from GoW1 (specific animation).  Some foes have this in GoWII.  Most of them have an alternate version for holding the input.  I note this above.  It's better for GK here.  Don't worry about it.  IF you got good with collisions, you could manage multiple air OS near the TM for some serious damage output, but that's really risky.  My video shows such antics, but not sleep spot abuse (or the stuff about leaping off the rope).

Catacombs of the Fallen

-Collisions work great (also ring-out).

Destiny's Atrium

-Break the door

Island of Creation:Walkway

-To note it, the 'elites' here are "Legionnaire Captains" (later palette swapped as "Hades Legionnaires").

Courtyard of Atropos

-Thus why 9x Wraiths of Asphodel makes for a good time in the Arena.  You can easily petrify them as you denote.  Sweet spots abound.  Also, chokepoints for collisions and camera abuse.  You can even ring them out without killing them to glitch them (alive, but unable to fight) *no final spawn like this*.  It won't be so bad on PAIN+ with collisions used well (or having a good feel for fighting them *ring-out approach by the ladder you came from to get here*).

Halls of Atropos (lower)

-(Priests/Minotaur Grunts) OS to air OS (or OH) and repeat works fine, but you can also just OS to OS (and repeat) as the damage from the ground grab is what matters most and they land quickly enough.  Your call.

-Pity about the invisible wall, yes?

-(2 Satyrs) If you line them up as they taunt, you can easily get both.  You can get collisions as you note, but baiting taunts to set it up is necessary.

Hall of Atropos (upper)

-(Exterior) ...

-(Interior) True.  But you can keep the door you came from open and abuse that boundary while causing collisions.

-navigate

-(Root 1) Amulet abuse, collisions, etc. for each bit. Ring-outs here.

-(Root 2) Invisible walls.  Such a bother.

-(Root 3) You bet.

Bathouse of Atropos

Perseus "You can't hit me if you can't see me!" -Buuhan *moments before a beatdown by Vegetto*

Stage 1 - I eventually learned to 'see' him.  Even without that, I knew his move cues and the ways to punish them.  RotT during his charge and just pounding away works okay.  If you want specifics, my old coverage and videos are all over him.  I can explain where you have questions.

Stage 2 - ...

Stage 3 - You can hit him as he retreats with certain moves.  Forcing him into walls helps.  You can trick his flash, but it isn't necessary.  Allowing the flash can be useful if you want to change where he is (stand where you want him to re-appear at).  He's open to all attacks as he retreats to S4 (the further away he is from that wall during this time...the better).

Stage 4 - If you had magic enough, CR spam would suffice.

Courtyard of Atropos

-Do the puzzle and press on.

Lowlands:Exterior Hallway

-...

Lowlands:SoD Trial

-...

-Get across

Lowlands:Crossing

-Cross it

-(Fight 1) Order of Siren kills can matter for an overall plan.  With GK, you want them for collisions.  Without that, you might prefer being quit of them in a NUR+ so you can BH smash the Hades Minotaurs.  Maybe keep them in PAIN/PAIN+ for the collisions perk while not being afraid to kill them off when the time comes.  Can't tell when you're hitting them?  Explain.  As for the flinch, were you looking for air OS based collisions on the Hades Minotaurs?  It takes practice to get the positionin down for launch to OH set-ups with collisions in mind.  Not quite as much for 'revenge' based (or PS) *more for s6* knockback collisions.

Let's see what old coverage says (lots of runs, so I'll narrow it to PAIN+ and GKPAIN+ despite knowing some really good stuff came later in themed runs).  Reviewed PAIN+.  Just notes that same old with air OS infinite to get down to one Siren and using that Siren for collisions (with T into OH) while ignoring the "O", keeping away from Hades Minotaurs, watching for Siren attacks, getting the positioning right, etc.  Tricky stuff.  GKPAIN+:

"Launch to OH *collison* then grab the "O". I beat on the weaken one but ignored the mid-"O". Killed the new spawn after air grab whoring. Used the survivor against the 2 Hades Minotaurs to kill one and half kill the other. False Grab to s,t,s,t (along its flank) used to bring it down."

Ah, yes.  The false OS method for Hades Minotaurs.  You should start learning it for future reference.  Either strafe around them, block/parry or trick through it to defend (evade too, I suppose).

-(Fight 2) You might not feel that way in other runs.  Time will tell.

So switch off of ground OS to 't,t' and repeat for damage, was it?  In your conditions, wild spending of MP can pay off still with EH to shatter a troublesome foe.  Perhaps use that on the second Satyr after quickly killing the first (you still have BH for big damage trades with Juggs).  Maybe use it to be rid of the Juggs, leaving an OS spamming session on the last Satyr.  GK is certainly better suited for collision abuse with even half value cases being very strong.  Not sure why you didn't OS spam on the Satyr while it was alone.

"I got a bit sloppy when rushing Ascensions against the Satyr so I couldn't lock it in the corner but did quite well in arranging collisions otherwise. Typical handling. When just the Satyr, I opted to trap it along a wall and whore OH to early Ascension."

So it speaks of locking in the top left corner along the exit barrier with T into OH infinite on the Satyr.  I forget if this is paced to kill it after dealing damage to the Jugg that spawns there or not (maybe the Satyr dies outright and the next is locked in the same spot *I forget*).  The usual would likely refer to keeping away from Juggs and getting openings (taunts and some attacks) from the Satyr to cause knockback or otherwise set-up collisions (which takes practice and familiarity).  In your case, EH could certainly have helped you by at least letting you freeze and shatter some targets while abusing their taunts for openings or something.

Icarus

- Beat him up.

Atlas:Face

-...

Atlas Innards:Spine Chamber

-What sort of grabs on the Harpies?  You can abuse an AI boundary in this fight if you pull the block out.  Collisions too.  Certainly EH can help.

Titan Minotaur 3

Stage 1 - It is allowed in all runs to speed things along.  It just seemed to stop working for me in the Collection version.  Not sure why.  The version I had is the first one (1 and 2).

Stage 2 - ...

Stage 3 - Didn't I roll counter-clockwise?  Gent liked to trick then go clockwise as I recall.  PS method, I see.  Indeed like the video shows.  When you came back after rolling away, did you use a roll canceled into s1 canceled into a block to PS?  The video was for a series where one has to use SoD.  BH still deals more damage in the case shown (GKTMMAX).  The gap closes considerably in GKTMNUR.  More so for GKPAIN+ where BH also loses RotT.  TB usage noted for speeding things along.  I should like to think you will recover it as a possible aid in the Atlas Lift.  There you can go crazy on spending with MP (more than HP) due to AQ trial giving it all back (as one would plan around the other spell trials or boss fights *for HP, MP and RP* in GoWII).

Atlas Innardsuzzle Room

-Navigate ahead

Atlas Innards:Hades Nymph Hive Chamber

-Works fine.  You can also take a shortcut in the middle area once you do destroy the nests/Nymphs.  But then, when everyone is dead, you would also be allowed to just use a HJ (or IJ) to reach the next area as there are no foes being skipped with it.  Just platforming that cannot hurt you.

Atlas Innards:Climbing Section

-...

Atlas Innardsuzzle Room

-Use the Thermal Draft to exit

Atlas:Hanging Platforms

-(Atlas Lift)  I then used Icarus Ascension to launch some harpies, clearing out all of them temporarily. I was incredibly lucky since I was able to stone both the remaining legionnaires with 1 being offscreen. Once I noticed I got them both I used MotK to break them. There was 1 harpy left that I killed with a grab. Any advice or copypasta you might have on this fight for PAIN+ is greatly appreciated. I see this being a very troublesome fight for runs where I can't abuse magic, and I can only assume that Icarus Ascension is now allowed on PAIN+ either.

Old PAIN+ should give you an idea of my first time:

"Atlas Lift was a f***er like this. I took damage here and just decided it was good enough. Basically about using Harpies on the Legionnaire Captains. Launch to air grab on Captains when open. Having weak collisions here, easily missing with alt.OH and being open to hits during air grabs on Harpies...made things bothersome. Had to flee from Harpy Bombers with the Captains always ready to f*** up 'tricking'."

GKPAIN+ got better along with later handlings, but the noted is more due to collisions being stronger.  I'm sure I would later use forced locks, camera abuse, etc. along with Harpies for collisions.  In a NUR+ though, obviously EH can help a lot.  There are good videos for this in NUR+ along with PAIN+/GKPAIN+.  My GKTMMAX gives an idea of what GKTMNUR and NUR can be like (to an extent) for EH, while the GK aspect shows what those collisions can really do for you (in GKPAIN+ where you need them most).  I'm sure my later runs have more details about doing the fight well.  I'm tempted to go through them as this is rather bare. Of course, said GKTMMAX and GKTMNUR videos would have AQ for controlling this fight well as I demonstrated (you cannot do this outside NG+).

Getting good use of EH in means a lot.  Icarus Ascension in not allowed on PAIN+ as it is an offensive use of the relic.  Let me check some of the other runs for notes on this fight.

HAPAIN+

"Collisions weren't helpful. I opted instead to grab whore Harpies to keep them out of the way then wait for safe chances to OH lock a Captain basically."

Not sure what I'm saying.  I think I'm referring to using ground OS to kill Harpies then safely going after Captains between respawns (using T to OH forced lock).  Maybe some use of T to air OS or something of the sort as well.

DOPAIN+ notes the usual while also admitting a bit of rust in handling.  Athena PAIN+ also relies on collisions (slightly stronger than with default, weaker than GK).  Same for Herc the Jerk's case (but with GK collisions).

GoW PAIN+ was a mess for lack of strong collisions, but was insulated with good stats otherwise *that weren't of much use*:

"Kill Harpies. Bait an opening for Launch to air grab. Repeat until "O". Use it. Repeat until all Hades Legionnaires die.

NOTE: This fight was f***ing pissing me off. I couldn't clear it without taking about 100 damage (approx 80 in the final go)"

Titan PAIN

"Collisions are the goal. alt.OH and air grabs with harpies are the standard, but 'Revenge' can weaponize even the Legionniares (like their OH, but easier to put to work). Parry settles them down well."

As with PAIN+, but with the option of 'revenge' to help things along.

Athena's NUR was just a matter of EH abuse as she has great MP recovery and NG+ affords MAX extensions from the start.  Nothing too technical noted about how I opt to go about the use of EH though.  Likely starting as you note with catching the first Captain as he spawns and likely some Harpies, but not how I bust them (perhaps the SoD's PS is implied).  The MAX version of that run didn't change here (just got easier).

Seems like videos will be of more assistance than old write-ups as I didn't get as descriptive as I would usually.  Let's see here.

Gent does a VH NUR of it here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IhpWdcHKLzI

GKPAIN+ here:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY7BesDD0ns

The latter is obviously more relevant to VH PAIN+ (just know you'll need more collisions) and is well handled while showing how to bait attacks for openings, treat their attacks, apply collision (alt.OH especially), do the forced lock on Captains, etc.

Taz doing VH PAIN+ here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3TMeo7dXXk

Again, showing to keep away, find openings, use 's,t' to alt.OH for collisions, etc.  Remember not to get greedy with an OH attempt when too near other foes for fear of false OS or being caught during the OH (before i-frames can save you).  Sometimes you need to drop a set-up in favor of safety.  Tactical retreat.  Taz does this time to time along with suffering some cases of collisions not registerign as 360 toss does sometimes fail to land them even at short range (he had quite a few miss while Captains can even annoy you by blocking them now and again, but he wasn't discouraged with the nonsense and kept at it).

Atlas' Arm:Wall A

-...

Atlas' Arm:Rock Puzzle

-Do it

Atlas' Arm:Wall B

-Navigate it

Atlas' Arm:Hand

-Break the Chain, resist Atlas' grip

-(AQ trial) ...

The Great Chasm

-Navigate ahead

Palace of the Fatesalace Courtyard A

-(Entrance) You didn't stop their spawn of the Berserker? Fire Throwers?  Fiends?  There is only one if you don't kill the first one until all Beast Lords are dead.  I might suggest the ring-out approach when you can make use of it (by the bridge).  OS whoring works fine, but also setting up OH infinite (air OS infinite is less effective as it doesn't have the same collision potential).

Palace of the Fates:Spiked Floor Chamber

-(Spike Room) FIGHT or FLIGHT.  Make your call.  I pick the latter as it is easier up until the moment of truth when you need to quickly clear them out if on a run where you don't have some good options for this.  The former takes some practice, but is reliable for all runs that allow grabs.

-Get the Crank

Palace of the Fatesalace Courtyard B

-Puzzle

East Auditorium:Hallway A

-Navigate

-...

NOTE: I'm to take it you can now use the IJ as needed here.  We should go over your tactics for W1 and W2, but more importantly your plan for W3.

Alright, so VH NUR+ in GoWII.

Rhodes Temple:Antechamber

-...

Rhodes Temple:Hall

-...

Colossus 1

-Lots of fancy approaches for this fight exist.  Not really necessary to get into all of them (if you're interested, I could go over a few just the same *that is often enough the case*).  So PR tricking to deal with his 'hand' attacks, but otherwise using OS on Rhodian Soldiers.  Simple enough.  Maybe for PAIN/PAIN+ there would be a better encouragement to get fancier.

Rhodes' Bathhouse

-...

Colossus 2

-Should be 's,t,t,t'.  This is a bit too general in terms of coverage for the fight in question with the tactics noted.  During 'rage pounds', what did you do?  Where were you standing exactly with regards to said 'resting hand'?  What attack did you bait by this placement?  There is an obvious enough tactics I imagine you describe, but I need to be clear on things without just filling in the blanks for you.

Rhodes Palace:Hallways
-...

-...

-Go up the elevator and slap the Colossus in the eye

Rhodes Palace:Western Ramparts

-There is an AI boundary, but if you're already using grabs, you may as well keep at it.

-So you went for the Archers first?

Rhodes Palace:Easter Ramparts

-...

Colossus 3

Stage 1 - I am now reminded that I never updated the GoWII VH PAIN+ coverage to be a full one (whereas other runs are fully covered).  So annoying.

CoC to damage him?  This is a better chance to use PR while you still have it.  For my PAIN+, I went with:

"...waited by severed hand for his attack causing cracks that let out godly energy...then used SPIRIT on his arm/wrist. Repeat."

This would also allowing a closer range handlign with PR tricking, but even without that (evade tricking).  Baiting fissures makes for a good opening to be sure.  Let's see what GKPAIN+ had:

"Spirit whore (s,s,s,s,s,t) during his 'fissures' set-up then retreat to the hand and wait for another opening. After each BoO grab, I'd s,t his hand (after tricking). Saved the hand for the final part. Turns out we can only use a sub-weapon there and in the Colossus."

Clear improvements in how I cover things, to be sure.  The rest of the former coverage was profanity and nonsense.  To note it, PAIN+ doesn't necessarily force you to use the hand for S4, but it is honored/encouraged as a means to skip needing to use the BoO.  For your settings, it is ideal for S3 (when you lack upgraded blades and PR, but before getting BoO).

So I suppose making good use of the MAX BoA while you can is lovely too.  Note that you would do better to often refer to the GKPAIN+ coverage while baring in mind that your collisions won't be that high and you'll have more options (but less MP *sometimes less HP; takes some explaining*).  Perhaps better still referring to the later coverages with PAIN+ with each costume and even NUR+ for the likes of Athena (a glimpse at some magic antics).  I don't believe much of my MAX antics has been preserved in a readily accessible way though.  GKTMMAX tactics exist here and there (SoD FAQ, my videos, etc.) though.  But that no longer concerns you in this run.

Stage 2 - ...

Stage 3 - ...

Stage 4 - Could have just DR whored from range.

Inside the Colossus

-...

(Shaft 1) Break it and navigate ahead

-...

(Shaft 2) Break it and navigate ahead

-...

-You can make them kill themselves here pretty easily.

-(Shaft 3) Break it

-(Puzzle) ...

-(Shaft 4) Break it and escape

Zeus

-Get killed

-Note that your crossing gaps counts as collision.

Pegasus 1

-You're on VH.  Collisions are strong.  Use X dash for half collisions (25) and L1/R1 for full (50).  This entirely outclasses the damage of your Blades (even at max).  It doubles in damage with GK.  Note this well for PAIN+.

PATTERN: D, L, U

-You remember to restart when he first appears?

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern

-...

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Walls

-I won't bother with specifics here.  Perhaps for PAIN+ (just to see exactly what you're doing).

-t1's bounce isn't so hot as before.  It won't set-up OH and air OS like you want for them.  You'll need T.  Air OS infinite is gone.  I don't think OH infinite can be applied with the quick T lock, but it can with a wall to knock them towards (not into as GoWIII starts the wall collision thing).  AI boundaries, collisions, ring-out, etc.  Plenty of options for this easy fight.  So you cleaned up with OS on Harpies to get the Minotaur alone.  Simple enough.

Mount Etna:Moutainside A

-Archers can break it for you.  AI boundary, ring-out, etc.  If you handle things properly, there aren't more spawns to concern yourself with.

Mount Etna:Fires of Olympus

-get Prometheus down

Mount Etna:Mountainside B

-...

-That or ring-out. Also, collision smashing them (pressed under your might pecs/abs).

Mount Etna:Typhon's Cavern

-'t1' won't be bouncing everything and it is half as strong as it was in GoW1.  T got a severe power downgrade (from above t0 to an eqaul with s1).  Air OS and OH infinites won't be everywhere like they seemed to be in GoW1.  That sort of returns for CoO.  GoWIII limits it again.  I forget what GoS did.  I think it further limited that.  GoW:A kept with that trend.

OH varies with the targets.  Some share 'unique' OH types.  Each has different damage, properties, etc.  Classic OH (slam) cannot be redirected, but continues to have no i-frames.  In many cases it can be held for alternative OH types (varies with foes *360 toss, pull into OS kill, pull into OS grab select*).

Like the Minotaur, you can OH lock with T to OH to quick T, but only along walls where they don't move away.  You can break the barrier here for a bit of boundary abuse.  Also, the savepoint can be abuse for checkpoints as you see fit.  Doing the rest before finishing this fight can alter the camera if that suits you.  Gorgons are good at taking out the Harpies for you, but the Harpies can make for good ammo against the Gorgons (set-up alt.OH for 360 toss i-frames and collisions).  Using Gorgons for collisions with their OH works, but is more work for less reward.  With GK, that is more worthwhile.

Chipping is fine for a start, but that won't be great later on.  At least you'll have the Fleece before it gets ugly for you.  In PAIN+, you'll want to have your s*** together on this front.  That crutch falls by the wayside.  And yes, their new OH is fabulous for ring-out.

-You can fight them in the area before the bridge or clear the bridge (quick rolling) and fight them on the other side (even the area above).  Ring-out can apply if I remember right, but grabs and collisions are easier.

-Camera and obstacle abuse aside from a small sweet spot by a barrier. I believe they deny us ring-out here.

-...

-This is fine by me.  The tactics would just be to grab and toss them at the fire.  In NGR+ NUR+, using s6 and the like to knock them in.

Mount Etna:Fires of Olympus

-Shoot down Prometheus

-To note it, this variant of Minor Grunt is called "Fates Sentry".  The stronger version is a Fates Guardian.  The Minor Grunts you know so well are the Undead Legionnaires (with their stronger unit being Cursed Legionnaires).  Regarding collisions, the Sentry toss you denote is best from range.  If you're too close, it will NOT register the full collision.  You need more than a Plume's distance of space if the target is not along a surface that will make your agent/ammo get stuck while touching them such that one or more collisions register.  A spacial example would be the distance between points Atropos lands at on the sword bridge.  If she is at the middle point, go to the left or right positions she can be and toss from that distance...or toss straight at her to get the Sentry to land collisions without moving off-course while passing through her (stuck on an invisible wall).

-(rope) ...

Mount Etna:Mountainside A

-RotT the door

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Hallway B

-Ring-out or collisions would also work.

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Hallway A

-...

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern:Wall

-...

Mount Etna:Hand Cavern

-Free Pegasus

Pegasus 2

-Pure focus on collisions is strongly encouraged for your conditions (and those more severe still).

-(Dark Rider) Damage doesn't do anything here.  It is just a race to a point ahead of you (so not timed either).  You can clear this quickest by slightly moving away from him, using X, letting him catch up and repeat (keep to the center and watch which side he appears on).  Something like five dashes should end it.

PATTERN: L, D, R, U, L

Temple of Lahkesis:Cliff 2

-Too bad they limit ring-out.  's,t' works,  but t0 is a more reliable set-up against Guardians.  With Sentries, you can just stick to 's,t' though.  The OH for Guardians has i-frames and is good for collisions while being an infinite.

Temple of Lahkesis:Hanging Garden

-...

Temple of Lahkesis:Cerberus Courtyard

-It is considered a mini-boss (believe it or not).  Less trivial in NGR+ NUR+.

-(Ceiling) ...

-(Platform/Ledge/Chest Garden) Which throw?  360 toss or X toss?

Temple of Lahkesis:Siren Sacrifice

-You can use them for collisions, but it tends to be easier to just lock them with a forced OH lock against a wall (as with many other foes).

Steeds of Time:Saddle 4:Exterior

NOTE: Horse order (behind; left to right) yellow, green, red (Saddle 3), blue (Saddle 4)

Theseus

S1P1/S1P2 - Old tactics then.  That's fine.  For GK, consider square whoring to bait a counter (if it is the grab, let it land and reverse *that's your focus for damage*).

S2P1 - This is the first phase of HP while uptop. The second is the same thing, but with more HP (post-yell).

S2P2 - ...

M1 - If you can manage this, you're fine for PAIN+ as you don't note making use of RotT though you could have used it effectively to speed this along just abit more.

Steeds of Time:Saddle 3:Interior:CR Trial

-(CR trial) ...

-Do it

Steeds of Time:Saddle 3:Exterior

-You can use the Horse Key to re-open the door to create an AI boundary while funneling foes for collisions aside from the extremes along the structure for a chokepoint.

-...

Temple of Lahkesis:Divine Pools

-...

-navigate to the Amulet

-do the puzzle and press on (head through the window)

Temple of Lahkesis:Amulet Chamber

-Escape

-AotF spam, was it?  May as well.  You can also destroy the head and use the area after as an AI boundary.  Lots of cheap tactics here.  Wraiths with OH infinite is fine, but not so safe if others interfere (safer would be air OS).  You can use alt.OH on the Nymphs for the OS kill out of OH (not necessary, but an option just the same).

-Collisions are a better aim for GK when doing this bit.  It can be tough to land and you need a big reward for the trouble.  It takes practice to do this part like that.  You can just kill all the Boars to be rid of distractions.  They're rage fuel too.  The Cyclops does a fine job of killing them for you.  You should already know of the AI boundaries here (or maybe you've not seen my video on this area *I can never recall who all I've discussed what with*) and chest abuse *more for SoD*.  Fighting upclose with TB tricking is very good here (but tricking their grab can be tough).  Evading works okay too.  Bait the charge, 3x quick roll away and start up the long path to Spirit (s,s,s,s,s,t) and land it as they taunt (repeat).  If you're not down with TB/EH tricking, you're going to have some serious stepping up to do come PAIN+, friend.

Bog of the Forgotten

Barbarian King

S1 - You can stand in his face and simple use 's,t' while blocking.  Alternatively, moving in and out of melee range with some fancy Spirit antics (not necessary to show off like that).  You've got magic.  Use it a bit.  TB does fine.  You'll get a good deal back in S2 and just before S3.  Hell, you can even afford a tiny bit of RotT usage.

S2 - OS whoring is the way to go.  You can let them grab you, reverse and get a 360 toss for an HP orb drop too.  Hitting him here is good for building rage back up (and that's it).

S3 - Playing a long range game for the most part.  What did you use 'rage' for?  You activate it during 't3' landing for extra dmage from range or get in his face, tank hits and lose a bunch of HP?

S4 - RotT tanking him works great with enough HP for it.  Magic spam (CR) too.  Blocking his attacks and using 's,t' is fine.  His souls have the obvious solution noted.I blocked his swings. Too bad we don't get this 'soul shot' move with strong souls instead of the lame spinning move.  Too bad they dropped the 'Homerun' hit for this weapon for the retail version (having a hit causing an effect like what Artemis could do with combined properties would have been 'just too sweet'.

-...

Bog of the Forgottenath to the Bog

-...

Bog of the Forgotten:Temple of Euryale

-Get Euryale's Key

-...

-You mean launch to OH.  Their air OS is worthless.  Whenever they 'crumble' and reform, they go from whatever HP (higher or lower) to 20HP.  It can 'hurt' or 'heal' as such.  Great for low damage to bounce/knockback/launch them to reduce their life.  Beyond that though, you will need to chip for "O". In this case, you're not so weak and you have good options.  The petrifying gaze of the door, ring-out, collisions, etc.  Going back to collisions, s6 with BoA, PS with SoD, s3 with BH *if I remember right*, etc.  They have super armor on their simple melee, but are wide open during their taunt (just keep range and let them do this and then land whatever you like for whatever set-up you aim for *collisions, ring-out, etc.*).  BH with RotT at this point would be lvl2 (when you reach Kraken, it will have lvl3 power during RotT).  I've explained RotT to you before, yes?

Ruins of the Forgotten

-There should be no next Berserker.  Rush to the back and grab or otherwise stop the Beast Lord.

Ruins of the Forgotten:Hallway

-...

-To note it, you can cancel out of various grabs with the grapple (R1) here.  It's neat.

Ruins of the Forgotten:Bog Battle

-Potentially ring-out.

-(Pillars) Suits me.

Ruins of the Forgotten:Forgotten Chamber

-...

-Puzzle

-You try tossing towards the shore from platform 2?  Slightly slows their respawn rate.  There was a trick for platform 1 to get a living foe to the shore you start from (they can't fall off and won't respawn as such).

Titan Minotaur 1

-TB to speed it along, eh?  Using the sleep spot puts him to sleep where he always wakes up with rage pound.  As you know, when he rage pounds, he is wide open for abuse of his flank with 't,t' whoring (better with block or TB/EH cancels) using BH.  This will factor again for TM2 (which also has a collision method, but that's better for GK).

River of the Forgotten:Euryale's Guantlet

-Pull down the tree

-(Vine) ...

-(Gears) Use Amulet and cross.

-(Conveyor)...

Ruins of the Forgotten

-Do the puzzle, navigate ahead

Cave of the Forgotten

-Talk to the corpse

-The Gorgon Assassin can be knocked into the crusher.

-Proceed with the corspe

Cave of the Forgotten:Coliseum

Cerberus Bastard

Stage 1 - This is fine.  You can just circle strafe while using 't,t' during the fireballs to keep on the offensive though.

Stage 2 - It likes to use 'pound' now?  May as well use magic and/or RotT to speed this along.

Cave of the Forgotten

-So it begins.  To note it, you can take them outside their AI territory.

Bog of the Forgotten:Temple of Euryale

-Destroy the Gorgon Door

Euryale's Temple:Antechamber

-I think I see where this run is going.  This said, you could have used the AI boundary from the door you started at (it stays open and they can't follow).

Euryale's Temple:Underground Chamber

-...

Euryale's Temple:Elevator Puzzle

-There is no air OH. I know what you meant though.

Euryale's Temple:Lowland Vista

-They are.  Slightly.  No air OS or air OH infinite without a forced locked.  The devs knew of the GoW1 lock, but not the forced locks that also existed in the game.

Euryale's Temple:Temple Hazards

-Navigate through

Euryale's Chamber

Stage 1 - The second hit of her 2x hit is unblockable, yes.  You can simple circle strafe, evade or trick it.  't,t' works fine.  Better with cancels.  No need to use magic or rage yet.

Stage 2 - Keeping close works fine.  Though you can bait her Gorgon Blasts to create openings too.  TB works fine as such.  Rage can be used, but it is better for speeding along S3 (along with CR for cancels, tricking and more damage).  The return you note isn't worth your time.

Stage 3 - Her 'rage pounds' are a pain to trick.  Just keep away.  Sweet spot abuse works well,  but you have options that let you speed this along (and used them).  Would have been better to use BH 't,t' with CR cancels than RotT BoA antics and TB chipping (though that is more MP efficient for a single target with NUR considered).

Euryale's Chamber:EH Trial

-Petrify and crush 5 Sentries

NOTE: It also allows good canceling and even tricking (big perk).  It loses some potency for stare, but gains it back with better cost efficiency for Flash and Rage.  You cannot use Stare and Flash at once, but i-frames for Flash, Blast (crap) and Rage are nice.  Petrification as a system is best in GoWII.

-(Center Pillar Battle) Rage during comprimised time will drain slower.  When you lack the amulet, consider Fiend OH infinites for collisions on the Juggs.

Euryale's Temple:Stone Crusher

-...

>Colossus 2 now that I look at it I did go a bit overboard with the brevity on this section of the skeleton. As best as I can remember when I dropped down I had to block a fist, he then rested his hand and I got him with ttt, or sttt, I can't remember. When he was injured I swung to the other side and all the way back to avoid being hit, he would rest his hand down either immediately or after an attack and I would repeat. I wish I had one of those capture cards. I'd rather edit out all the times I die for a video than have to type it out, since it's tough to get all the specifics in there.

>Restart when the rider appears I did not do that. I wasn't aware doing that did anything.

>Which throw I always use the square 360 toss. I never messed much with the x. I should try it some more i'm sure it has it's uses.

>Destiny's Atrium and TB tricking I think I saw a video where someone used alt.OH to 360 throw the pigs. for GKPAIN+ (this is a run that sounds like a blast in general, just very skill intensive) collisions I'm sure are the way to go. when I get to PAIN+ I'll mess around with some different ways to do it. I did not know there was an AI boundary here, good thing to know. I know how to bow trick, you'll see I use it some against Titan Minotaur 3, I'm just not great with it. I will have to get good with it for PAIN+ I know. The timing is different than blocking so it takes time to adjust to.

>BK I used s attacks with rage. I could have tried to get cute and use ttt on his back, but I generally prefer to play it safe even if it's a little slower. for phase 3 in PAIN+ I'm gonna have to get my bow tricking down or I guess chip with t3, but I don't like that idea as much.

>Rage of the Titans You have not explained any specifics of it to me. I did not know there were 3 levels, once you get it I didn't think it got upgraded until the Kraken.

>Can see where the run is going Headed for disaster? Once I get past the translator I think it'll be pretty smooth progress until I get to the hallway before Clotho. This fight will be tough, but it's so much fun I don't mind having to retry it a bunch of times.

>GMG I know that you (Mr. Starkiller) are GMG. I just phrased it like that because I wasn't sure if any other vets were gonna look at it.

>Baiting out taunts from the satyrs for collisions This sounds great, please explain how to bait out the taunts at your convenience.

>Current progress Still at the translator. I'm was sick yesterday and I still am today. Fever congestion and cough. I might play some later depending on how I feel and the availability of the television.

Updated post.

>Colossus 2
Block a fist?  You can't block here. Likely 't,t,t' as you've had trouble with remembering the quick path where it applies (using it where it doesn't instead).  This doesn't make clear where you attacked from (what attack it baited) to cause the 'rage pound' with said resting hand.  Or maybe you can block the fist and I just never did it in future runs as it was more effective to bait it, move aside while setting up Spirit and land it on the hand before it pulls back. That could very well be the case.

>capture card

Understandable.

>Restart when the rider appears

With 100 units of HP and 20% Armor or lower (as is typical of vanilla VH and other runs), you will die instantly to his volley at the end no matter what, so you waste time.  It will not instantly kill you upon restarting from death or just restarting from checkpoint the instant the cutscene starts (or otherwise before dying).  It deals less damage as if to fix itself.  This was a lazy edit by the combat devs, I'm sure (as they realized a game breaking issue).

>Which throw
360 toss downhill won't instant kill your target and tends to miss with collisions (while also not being amazing for landing said collisions at extreme close range now and again). X toss is limited in range and won't sweep groups, but it will kill your agent and hit a close target reliably. So there's that.  Often 360 toss is better, but X toss has some use here and there.  W1 of ER comes to mind.

>Destiny's Atrium and TB tricking
There should be a few videos of alt.OH used in this fight.  Tricking will help.  As for boundaries and the like, my video for this section shows some of that nonsense as I dick around (very obviously not going for efficiency in favor of showing off a few oddities of the area).

>BK
Findlestick perhaps has the best showing for BK of us all with refined versions of our tactics for the fight on PAIN+.  Consider watching some of his few videos of challenge runs.  You won't regret it.  You won't want to chip things out with BK if you can just get used to tricking him instead.

>Rage of the Titans
I must have explained to another chap in recent times then.  RotT does not modify Power % at all.  It does modify Armor % (which makes collisions weaker while it is active *can be helpful with the Tranny*).  Tranny's Armor % is tied to ours, but his HP (100) is static.  With collisions weakened and his armor % increased, killing him with collisions won't be so likely.  Also, we can put an aura of protection over him.  Just not for PAIN/PAIN+.  Anyway, RotT lvl1 (default) brings weapons to lvl1MID (as in middle).  For Blades that is lvl3.  For subs, that would be lvl2.  Thus 2.0 modifier for each.  It won't affect certain moves (PS for SoD for instance) nor unlock higher level abilities though.  Rage takes away Blades blocks, but subs keep them.  Rage Blades have their own moveset, but I don't feel the need to explain that or Inferno right now (troublesome and largely irrelevant to you).  lvl2 is available the instant you get to Kraken (and instantly in all NG+ conditions such as the Arena or Challenges).  lvl2 RotT takes weapon modifiers to lvlMAX (lvl5 Blades and lvl3 subs *3.0*).  It cannot take you to a power beyond the limits (unlike RotG).  It will not add or subtract power if you are at or exceed what it would give were you at lvl1.  It would then serve the purpose of giving tanking and higher Armor % with an altered Blades moveset.

NOTE: Did I explain how collisions work to you?  At least for GoW1/GoWII, I should like to think.

>Can see where the run is going
Rather, lots of BH antics.  It's to be expected.

>GMG
It's mostly going to be me attending these matters.  Sometimes others will chime in.  Uncommon.

>Baiting out taunts from the satyrs for collisions
It's a matter of abusing their aggro from outside their attack provocation range.  On VH, they are more aggressive.  They want to attack more often.  If they go a certain amount of time without attacking while not in range to initiate one, they will taunt instead (dedicated to this animation).  It's rather simple.  GoWIII was such that AI boundary meant more for forcing this.

>Current progress

Noted.

>Trouble telling whether or not I'm hitting in Lowlands caves I was referring to hitting them with air OS where they have to seemingly be directly under you. I was having trouble telling if I was connecting with the collisions or not, but I don't think I'm going to be using that method for collisions in future runs.

>False OS on Hades Minotaurs I'll be sure to try that out.

>Why I didn't OS spam the satyr while alone I was using OS, just after it fell I hit it with the hammer a few times because I thought it would do more damage. I wasn't able to kill it before the next enemies spawned either way.

>What grabs on the harpies in Atlas' Spine I believe it was air OS for those, alongside some ground OS for instant kills. I could have used

>Collisions You've never explained it to me, but I think I know the gist of it. They scale in damage inversely to your armor, so the higher the difficulty the more damage. I think there are multiple types of collisions with more than 1 amount of damage. If I remember one does 50 one does 25.

>Titan Minotaur 3 In that video you roll clockwise

>Infinite Jump I never was able to get it down, but Classygent linked me a video showing how to get over the door without having to do the full IJ. Ascension, to Motk, pause then jump on the right hand side of the door to grab a ledge to get over it. I'm not planning on doing any sort of speed runs so as long as I can get over that door I think I'll be alright.

>Colossus 2 I'll replay that part for you and I'll type out every detail I can. You're right about the fist I was confusing it with Poseidon's fist pound. So you climb up the wall and it shows him, he then hits the ground. I jumped in place to avoid damage and jumped down, staying a little bit to the left side. His fist came down, and I rolled to the left to avoid it. He sat his hand down and I used stssss before I had to roll away (I forgot about sttt for a moment) from another fist off to the left. He sat his hand down again and I used sttt, which injured him, causing orbs to be released. When he does this he does a big pound attack that I have always avoided by swinging to the other side, and running all the way to the opposite side, all the way to the right by the water wheel. He does an attack where he shifts to the other side, and he then sat his hand down. He stayed still long enough for me to get him with sttt, which injured him again, causing orbs to be released. I swung back across again, this time going all the way back and to the left by the other wheel. He did the same thing, resting his hand like before. I got him with sttt, causing the prompt. I swung over to his hand and did the QTE. When I came back down I avoided a backhand by rolling back, hitting him with st before avoiding another backhand, where I was able to injure him with sttt. I swung across like before, going all the way back towards the wheel and when he rested his hand I got him with stt, which injured him again. I swung across one last time, getting him again with sttt when he rested his hand, granting me the prompt to end the fight.

>Odd that you didn't explain it Well you noted a while ago when I first came to these forums that it scaled inversely to your armor (I was told when the game first came out this was because of a glitch where the game considered any attack originating from an enemy, which would include collisions and any attack against Kratos, as being affected by armor %). Whether or not it was intended I'm not sure, but there's no way they couldn't have known.

Timing on the IJ I was quite close to getting it down consistently, I have been able to do it a few times, but never on command. It's unrelated I know, but I'm a Street Fighter 4 player, and I use exclusively Dudley, the most combo reliant character. Any one of his combos is going to require a lot of time in the training room to master, and he has thousands he could possibly pull off. It literally takes hundreds of attempts to be able to land any specific combo of just 2 or 3 hits against a dummy in the training room, let alone against a real player in a match. I think of IJ the same way.

>Colossus 2 and T3 Forgot may not have been the correct word, I realized as soon as i hit the wrong button my mistake. I had just been used to using sts combos before I got the hammer so I did that combo without thinking. I know there's all sorts of ways to deal with this fight, but it becomes trivial after a few runs and I tend to just stick with what I know for something like that.

>hitting

With air OS with regards to collisions.  I forget if it has collision potential.  Maybe my .doc covers it.  It wouldn't be great for collisions if it did work anyway.

>try that out

By all means.

>more damage

Probably (I'd say certainly, but there is the matter of DPS to consider and that's not my specialty).

>never explained it

Odd.

>scale inverse of armor

With regards to costumes and settings.  There are 'full' (10) and 'half' (5) at 100%.  At 20% (5x damage), it is 50/25 as you note.  With GK, that becomes 10% Armor, so you can see where that takes the values.  RotT will greatly increase your Armor %, thus cutting into this perk.  Same for RotG in GoW1.  CoO has no collisions.  GoS has only 'full' collisions and only at a static damage of 3.  GoW:A and GoWIII share a system of attack specific collisions.  The latter is known to have cases where just the agent takes the damage, both take the damage or just the target (which is how it usually goes) with regards to 'half' collision cases (most often associated with knockback).  The values are static as in GoS.

>roll clockwise

I don't know about that. *checks*  Ah, yes.  So it was. It has indeed been a long while.

>couldn't learn the timing

Pity.  No matter.

>replay

It's not necessary.  You'll have your chance on that front for at least PAIN+ (nevermind GKPAIN+ *though you might do better to start with GKTMNUR*).

>forgot about fast path to t3

I see.  By the sounds of it, you are baiting his single arm strike that is better punished by just moving outside the effective range while building to t3 (s,t,t,t) versus fully evading out of the way.

>rage pound

Going to hte other side and staying there?  I suppose that's one way.  You could also just come right back, use PR (NUR+), get to the back corner and jump over the shockwave, etc.

>noted

So I glossed over it.

>glitch

I don't recall explaining it as such.

>intended

It would be a happy accident as such.

>can do time for fighters

>not this casual Action game

More common than you would think.  DSP was in the same boat.

>lots of ways

Most of that fancy stuff isn't necessary (obviously).  Just neat.  Gives variety.

>Collisions You mentioned about that aspect of them when I first started coming to this board and I inquired about the differences between PAIN+ and GKPAIN+. It was just some person on the God of War 2 board who mentioned it being a glitch. Likely they didn't know what they were talking about.

I'm not sure who DSP is, but I like the cut of his or her jib.

>GKPAIN+ I'll be sure to keep that post in mind when in the future (probably a long ways in the future as I'm planning to do NUR+ of 1 and 3, then normal PAIN+ of 2 and 3, and PAIN of 1). When all that is done I might consider GKPAIN+, but I want to restart my Robotos PAIN+ of GoS, filling out a skeleton and finishing it. Has anyone done that particular run?.

>DSP and Street Fighter Do you know anything about Dudley GMG? He might be the sort of character you like. I watched one video of one of DSP's matches and never again. He complains about people repeatedly using attacks that work and hit him every single time. That's not the kind of attitude that will get you to the top. You have to figure out how to block and punish, or another way to deter it from happening. You gotta realize you're gonna improve more from losing than winning and that having a high win % will only come with time and thousands of matches online worth of dedication. (I'm at over 4500 matches played online with the same character and I'm still just medium skilled in the big scheme of things). "Mid tourney level" is a drastic overstatement. From what I've seen this would be about like someone who had beaten God of War 1,2,and 3 on VH and claiming to be a long time experienced vet, on par with the best of them.

>Street fighter inputs and Infinite jump What I was trying to get at there actually was that I treat the IJ the same way I would learning a new combo in Street Fighter. Obviously something with a strict timing input like IJ is going to take some time and dedication to learn, and my experiences playing Street Fighter make learning the IJ not so intimidating at all. The thing is that I only ever intended to use it to create the checkpoint in the translator fight, so once learned the easy way to do that without having to do the full IJ I lost interest in it. Am I wrong in remembering that you, GMG, noted in the past you play that newest Mortal Kombat game with Kratos?

>Current progress Having some trouble with the hallway before Clotho. The first wave I can handle cromulently, but I know I could be doing it better. My main strategy is launch with the spear into OH for collisions against the minotaurs. My problem is that I have to roll around so much to avoid being hit by the large numbers of legionnaires that it's very difficult to set up the proper angle for the launch, and more often than not when I see a good launch opportunity they end up doing their jumping blue flash attack a split second before the launching attack connects. When I did this part before on NUR I mainly used the hammer and didn't utilize collisions like I should have. I'm gonna have to watch some videos and read some run coverage. The third wave with gorgons and sirens is where I'm having real trouble. I've been trying to play it safe, waiting for the gorgons to use their gaze to stone some enemies, but I keep getting interrupted by the sirens ranged magic attacks, and the sirens creating the damaging magic under your feet is really causing me problems since I tend to turtle up and block until the gorgon's gaze comes out.

>some person

I'd be curious to hear who would say that.

>differences between PAIN+ and GKPAIN+

In PAIN+, you will have 100 units of HP, 100 units of MP, 50/25 collisions, vanilla VH stats, lvl1 RotT upon getting it and won't start with everything (no early game tricking).

In GKPAIN+, you will have 200 units of HP, 200 units of MP *not that it matters*, 100/50 collisions, GK VH stats *taking away most of the benefits while making recovery a bigger issue, but leaving you sitting pretty against grabs and when forced to use magic as with Theseus*, lvl2 RotT upon acquiring it *again, means little for the run in question*, UBER chests are full refills *won't matter in for this run* and you can use all tools from the start (tricking and even selection of other weapons where forced to use a sub-weapon *as with Zeus*).

There are attacks unaffected by Power % (spells, grabs and some moves *like PS for SoD*).  Those are good for GK.  Also, GK focuses more on non-damage means like environmental hazards.  Collisions are a huge deal as Power % is even lower and collisions are even higher (so encouragement towards using them is far higher).  Where you lack means to get around the weaknesses of GK and even lack means to work to his strengths...you'll have horrible grinds (Lahkesis comes to mind for GKPAIN+).

>DSP

Just one of the YT 'Let's Play' chaps.  One infamous among even them for being bad at games while thinking himself 'average' and blaming everything and everyone save for himself (most of the time).  He refuses to learn by and large.  His history is one fighting game (mid-tournie level would be a generous way to put it).  Many catchphrase quotes and amusing moments of getting bodied by games (he rage quit Dark Souls, got lost for 8 minutes in the graveyard Prologue of Bayonetta, tends to think of great weapons as garbage, uses trash tactics, etc.).

>cut of his jib

He's amusing to watch fail, whine, etc.  His relation to Dudley is strained though.  I believe he may have more often used Balrog and Chun-Li if I recall right.  The latter being somewhat infamous in the version he played.  As a 'fighting' game player, one would think he would transfer those skills.  As you noted, the ability to do timed inputs of the strict variety doesn't necessarily transfer to Action games (or the other way around).