Deeb's GoWIII BoA PAIN+ run progress

>Marty Chang

Why mention a specific statement or a song? Anyone says that phrase.

Deeb: >why

Wulf seems to have this covered.

Why did GMG have an extraneous comma in that quote?

It lacks context, and I don't actually remember him ever saying that as quoted.  Have a cite?

No, I demand perfection in everything.

Think of it like a PAIN run for reading, except I don't skip half the battles.

>skip half battles

I told you before, GoWI is a shitty game. See any of my other runs or wait any of my later runs. Are you fine with that?

"Better".  You act like you know the meaning of the word, or have any frame of reference against which to judge me.

I started with GoW1 because it is GoW1, in the mistaken belief that you were worthy of the time it takes.  You corrected me before that went on for too long.

Thank you.

>know the meaning of it

Yes. Good/better/best.

>started with GoWI

Then you're gonna watch my GoWII PAIN+ and GoWIII NUR+(PAIN+ if I uploaded it before getting to NUR+).

I'll call your YouTube channel my challenge run. I'll copy your tactic and skip everything in it.

Why would I continue watching when you've made it clear that it's not desired?

That must be it.

Deeb: >f*** around a bit

That's how you get the clap, son.

>shitty

GS allows this?  Amusing.  This aside, GoW1 is quite good.

>stick to your ass

My, my.

>gonna watch

With both hands at the ready.

>lying to self

Is this code for "tsundere"?

>what proof

That stuff in the pudding, I'd wager.

Wulf: >don't skip half the battles

Cutting.

>copy your tactic

Going all out, I see.

>why

Why not?

All your posts have the same meaning of each other, just with different words. So I would reply like I replied on all your other posts. I don't care to improve because I don't like this game. Also I prefer while recording to finish things fast. And when I said that I don't want to risk, I meant that if I did a mistake I could loose big part of my HP, I didn't mean that I would die. And if I died, I could simply restart from the last savepoint, and they're unlike the two Cyclops at Athens' Town Square(the last savepoint was close).

>laughing at waffles

I could still laugh at Waffles even if I have beaten the game on vanilla VH.

>avoid every opportunity

I never asked for your help, and I don't want it.

>not ready

Why? Because I skipped a couple easy fights? Or because I refused your help that I asked for it?

I know what you want. You wanna some Cyclops? Fine. Watch my last uploaded video or watch part 21 and 22, there's some good looking Cyclops and stroger than the ones you're looking for.

NOTE: I did just like you, this post have the same meaning of all my previous posts but with different words.

> "I don't care to improve because I don't like this game."

Understood.

> Why didn't you reply on the rest?

What else matters?

Deeb: >understand

That I do.  It's just something I prefer not to do or see.  Gent feels more strongly about it.  Seems Wulf is in agreement with him.  Taz and Shin are more on the opposite side of the fence (where you sit).

>don't like GoW1

Can't really understand why.  Perhaps you can elaborate.  It tends to be held in the regard of second to GoWII only.  Satvara was an oddball with it as his favorite (for breaking potential) and disliked GoWII (while pretty much ignoring later entries).

>could still laugh at Waffles

Even if you hadn't played GoW at all.  The boy has strange, casual values while fancying a go as an attention troll.  Getting his long term attention wasn't much of a task.  Pity about the interference, but I'm a patient fellow.

>never asked for aid

Those I assist with on YT don't always either. Their fans are often very touchy.  I like that about them.  Gives me some neat side-projects.

Wulf: >allowed

I know the feeling.  Many things are allowed that others will take issue with.  Tricking from various sources (or in general).  Some cancels.  Cheap tactics like AI abuse (boundaries especially).  The list goes on.  We get those types now and again.  I think Tid was one where he preferred to avoid ring-out (the first and only to feel as such).

>much to learn

Don't we all?  Some more than others.  Got another guy I'm instructing via PMs for GS.  Not sure how he knows me (I'm sure he did bring it up at some point, but I forget these details quickly), but he's progressing nicely.  GoW1 VH NUR+ down.  I think he noted VH NUR+ for GoWII as well (he's now doing GKTMNUR and asking about the differences between it and the 'normal' run *directed to the thread for it where I'll elaborate*).

>a PAIN run is a PAIN run

Yup, and you completed your PAIN run (I assume).  Congrats.  Why bother doing a PAIN run if you think the game is stupid and don't want to get better at it?

> things are allowed that others will take issue with

As a general rule I don't really care if those fights are skipped, but deeb had obviously skipped doing a NUR+ and has much to learn.  Those fights would have taught him something, even if they are 'easy'.

Deeb: Indeed the run remains valid.  Just diminished in the eyes of some.  It would matter more if more notable fights were so easily skipped as some trash mob cases.  Being able to run away from Tranny or the Clones would be a big deal.

Wulf: >why bother if it is stupid and you won't wish to learn more

That's something I can't answer for.

>skipped NUR+

Some runners do that.  I recall chastising Hotel on this in the past.  One misses out on learning all the options.

>lessons learned even from easy fights

True enough.

>why bother

It's stupid compared to other enties, but still there is something that makes me want to play it.

>skipped NUR+

No, I didn't. Avtually I was planning to record NUR+ but then I thought about it, I don't want to make too many playlists of the same entry.

>learn from easy fights

Tell me what could I learn from them.

>compared to other entries

Surely not the handhelds.  Obviously not GoW:A.  I wouldn't agree with it fairing poorly against GoWIII either.  Far too many gross errors there.  No shame in losing to GoWII.

>stupid

By all means, elaborate.

>something that makes you want to play it

You're just tsundere for those Clones.

>didn't

I'm sure you've skipped it for an entry or so.  It's hard to recall who does what.

>too many playlists of the same entry

So long as they have improvements (or at least alternative strats), it shouldn't be a problem.  Something worth seeing.

>what you could learn

Things you didn't already know.  Part of the reason I do non-recognized runs.  Focus testing of various tools, costumes, settings, etc.  Even silly themed runs with conditions that would be dumb taken by themselves (without reason given for them).  While working trash fights, you might notice terrain advantages, more ways to kill those lesser foes in a stress free area, etc.  I've made plenty of findings just messing around with lesser bouts in the past.  Obviously, for one who hasn't already learned much, there would be much room to learn in any given fight.  For those that have, there is still something to be gleamed should you take the time to test for yourself.  That's just how business gets done for new findings.

>not the hand helds

No, I meant the hand helds too.

>skipped it for an entry

No, I've done all entries on NUR+(except for GoW:A which I don't own it).

>meant the handhelds too

My, my. That does beg many questions.

>done all entries on NUR+

I thought for sure you were one of the recent runners skipping steps.  I know Hotel was.  Bah.  Too many to remember.

>That does beg many questions

Ask.

OH has its flaws, but I'd personally rank it as the best in the series.

Probably just because I'm so used to it, but there we have it.

Deeb: >OH doesn't work well

How so?  OH redirection for Slam was very good.  It does decent damage, can ring-out, can cause collisions, allows some locks, etc.  Some take issue with using (L) to make it into OS rather than the intended OH, but that's an input error.  It is a pain when a foe gets in the way of the OH attempt, but that's more a GoWII thing.  The lack of i-frames being a balance against it.

>one enemy left

So that's to say you're put out about the lack of i-frames?  Can't throw it out carelessly.  Have to pick the openings.

>i-frames ignored by exploding arrows

And traps.  This happens in GoWII as well (not the arrows).  Lahkesis' energy pillars is among the attacks that ignore i-frames.

>have to think very well before using OH

And that's so awful?  The GoWII version of "Slam" type OH is the same, but without redirection.  You can be hit coming out of grabs in GoS as well (just as GoW:A).  A recovery issue.

So that's one matter, how about some more?

Wulf: >best

GoWII puts up good competiton with lots of OH types and even alt.OH.  If the "Slam" variant still in GoWII could be redirected, I would easily give it the win.  Being able to direct manually is a big deal to me.  A grand pity to lose this.

>can redirect OH

And that's why I hate GoWI, you have something awesome and yet you can't use it in later battles, the Fallen Leggionnaires attacks to much  and they all attack at the same time so you can't do that OH thing.

>traps

I can't blame them for this.

>Lahkesis energy pillars ignores I-frames as well

Why would someone use TB/EH trick there(aside your testings)?

>what other

I hate air OS.

NOTE: I said that GoW1 is stupid compared to the rest, also there is a difference between "I don't like it" and "I hate it".

>why you hate it

>neat feature requires picking safe openings

I don't agree with the sentiment.  It's still very good to be able to redirect clones together (or over the side), casting out a spawning Minotaur Tormentor in CoH (as I'll likely be telling Tid he should have done), redirecting various Legionnaires over the balcony (by the climbable wall in Athens) easier than other methods allow, redirecting more Legionnaires (or Harpies) into water by a swim tube fight (though air OS can be a safer call when leaping out of the water), dumping the CoP Breeders (and Harpies) into water, etc.  Using even regular OH balls out can get you badly punished.  You just have to be careful in exchange for redirect (GoW1) or alt.OH (GoWII).  It is a shame it doesn't somehow go through invisible walls so the Blades could have their own way to ring-out during Hades Bridge A. That would be fantastic.  Instead, it's about slamming them into each other for collision chip.

>Fallen Legionnaires attack too much

They aren't in a lot of fights and one doesn't really need OH in general for them.  Air OS is plain safer if you lack an AI boundary to exploit.  The optional fight with Satyrs and Legionnaires is simple enough, but they aren't 'Fallen' (it wouldn't matter with the cheap tactics used there).  Our first encounter with them is easy to break.  Get them on the ladder and slap one to death and murder the respawns one-on-one (infinite OH is a good option) *then move on to the others*.  The next encounter has camera abuse, chokepoints, a checkpoint, etc.  Using OH carelessly can get you punished in another way via slamming a grounded Legionnaire (wake-up attack).  Most of the time they're just beefy Cursed Legionnaires, but there are cases where they are lacking their "O".

>can't blame them for this

Traps overriding even magic i-frames (PR) seems a bit much unless it crushes us, but making so many specific triggers for what overrides what would take a lot of time/thought, I suppose.  Easier to be general.  Respect traps.  The gent would surely agree.

>why would they

Because tricking feels great.  Also, some like to spam PR (Urn) or AQ to protect themselves (panic buttons).  It won't work against that move.

>hate air OS

Why's that?  Like the OH, it often does great damage (especially compared to later entries) and has a lot of infinite cases (again compared to later entries).  Cerberus Breeder is the only area where it does pathetic damage.  Against Satyrs, they forgot to give air OS any damage at all (they do this with some other moves like the air t1 for BotG).  Air OS can be directed in some cases (reversed for the Minotaur slam).  If often allows collisions (mostly half value).  Most have i-frames.

>stupid compared to rest

>dislike

The latter is noted, but the former is what is highly questionable as appraisal (for gameplay).  For instance, CoO has no colliisons at all.  In GoS, only full collisions occur at a fixed rate of 3 damage.  Both have spells scale with Power % (terrible).  GoS has enemy grabs scale with our Armor % without balancing for that (thus instant kills on Kratos for VH).  GoS has a large amount of off-screen attacks for a GoW game (by design).  We can be stunlocked to death by foes in GoS aside from the recovery out of i-frames issue turning up for the first time.  CoO's Efreet is poorly designed for pushing foes out of the AoE (thus needing to face a foe that doesn't get pushed or having them against a wall).  RotF (CoO) is a silly waste of time without a cancel.  The evade moves are still pretty garbage (only GoW1 really has a good one).  No redirection for either handheld entry. Foes don't really friendly fire in CoO.  Petrification on foes doesn't happen in CoO.  Neither allow much of any ring-out.  The system in GoS for petrification is pretty garbage (high cost to set it up and often far from worth the investment as with cases where statue HP is HIGHER than the normal full HP of a foe). *stare damage on statues helps to offset this as with partial petrification glitch in GoWIII*  Design for Keres Wraiths and Geryon are awful.  One could go on and on.  I believe my SP evaluation thread details a lot about all entries save for GoW:A (haven't done this for that title yet).

So we've gone over air OS and OH now.  What else is not to your liking with GoW1 as compared to other entries?  Collisions, petrification, direct damage magic, cancels, i-frames, inputs, locks on foes, locks on us, hit properties (stagger, bounce, launch, knockback, super armor, etc.), HP totals, mini-games/QTEs, enemy attacks (damage, properties, cues, etc.), platforming, puzzles, checkpoints, various glitches, sub-weapons, relics/items, extras, etc.  Plenty of options to select.

I doubt the matter of OH lacking i-frames is the deciding factor for your disdain.  You didn't elaborate on air OS (as to why you "hate" it) at all.  You have to understand how unusual this stance is.  It is something that requires a lot of explanation to be accepted.  To just say you dislike it is odd, but possible to overlook.  To say it is inferior in gameplay to other, non-GoWII entries is going too far to not be questioned.

>dislike

No that won't really be the word. Here you have another note.

>works with clones

Yeah, outside it doesn't.

> spawning Minotaur at the CoH

I never thought that it could ring him out.

Look, GoW1 is good, but if you're going to compare it to other entries, it doesn't have a chance to win.

>outside it doesn't

I don't follow.  Redirect is among the ways to get a ring-out when not lined up for it or to reposition a clone toward or away from the grouping as per the need of the moment.

>didn't know it could ring him out

It is not common knowledge that you can launch a Minotaur Tormentor like normal ones as they spawn.  Redirection of OH is also not common knowledge.  The few ring-out points (without needing Artemis) have low walls, but can be exploited with the Blades if you know their position.  That is also not well known information.  I often talk of using T to OH redirect on the spawning Minotaur Tormentor (leftside) and then its respawn.  It should be in my old write-up aside from a lot of YT evaluation videos.  It will be something I'll note for Tid.  It's unlikely to have been the approach used.  Recall that I played and replayed the game many times in many ways to have learned that much while also colloborating with other vets.  It wasn't something found in the first year or even three years.

>if going to compare it with other entries it cannot win

I contend it wins easily against CoO, GoS and GoWIII.  GoW:A is an obvious victory too.  GoWII is where it has stiff competition it can't quite best in terms of gameplay.  Above, I've listed some areas of discussion we can go over.  I mostly focused on trashing the handheld entries (lightly) when compared to GoW1 though.  For the SP evaluations thread, look no further:  http://www.gamespot.com/unions/TUGOWU/forums/29208932/gow-evaluations

I discussed air OS a bit, but you didn't note your grievance with it.  I addressed your concern with OH (and redirection) pertaining to the lack of i-frames (making it tricky to use safely in the thick of a group).  I'd noted doubts about the lack of i-frames being the big issue as that is something remaining true for "Slam" type OH in all entries.

It's going to be a very long and detailed back-and-forth to explain the overly daring statement made.  Again, favoring one over another is one thing, but to declare lesser entries above GoW1 requires much more on the front of reasons (with considerable elaboration).  It's not as blasphemous as saying the combat system of GoW:A is better than the others (something some casual apologists utter now and again), but to put even CoO above GoW1 in combat is simply wrong.  Opinions end when they contradict facts.  I went over a few areas where CoO was lacking.  If it suits you, we'll narrow the discussion down to GoW1 vs CoO in terms of gameplay.  To narrow it further, just combat (if it suits you).

>a bit better

A step in the right direction.  With all there is the consider, there just isn't a way CoO can be its superior in gameplay.  Granted, GoZ was a large step towards legitimizing sub-weapons.

>GoS and GoWIII are better

Than CoO?  Certainly.  But with CoO down.  I suppose the match-up should move up a notch.  GoS seem agreeable to you?  If so, GoS vs GoW1 will be the next topic of discussion.  As with CoO, I've alreadly lightly touched on some misgivings chaps might take with it.  Faults, even.

>GoWII is far better

Better sure.  Pros and cons when comparing the two.  GoWII is certainly our champion.  Really should be uncontested.

>like the ring-outs

Hard not to.  Unless you're Tid. *hohoho*

>other things

That leaves a whole lot of aspects to say you don't like.  Many of which didn't change much with GoWII (the best entry).  But we'll have our time with that before too long.  Shall I lead off in the discussion of GoS vs GoW1, then? 

>GoS vs. GoW1

We should get with GoWIII first.

>many didn't change much with GoWII

Enemies, combos didn't really change. But there are things that changed too much. RotT, Sentry toss, also you can't play with the same method in both entries, and also TB/EH full I-frames. At GoW1 the ZF/MG didn't have a full I-frames, they make you gain the inability to get knocked down/back but the damage still occurs.

>get with GoWIII first

That to imply GoWIII is inferior to GoS in terms of gameplay?  If so, I'd almost be tempted to do GoWIII vs GoS.  Still, if GoWIII vs GoW1 is what you wish first, that suits me fine.

>things that changed too much

This a knock against GoWII?

>RotT

Pros and cons versus RotG.

>Sentry toss

Pros and cons.

>can't play with same method

Often you can play in very similar fashions.  More so when you restrict yourself.

>i-frames

GoWII has loads of them (more than any other entry).  Lots of free cases too.

>didn't have full i-frames

They didn't have super armor either.  I believe AoH had super armor.  I forget.  But that's GoWII.  It's a discussion saved for last.

>gain super armor

For ZF and MG?  I don't readily recall that perk during the draw animation.  I remember CoO's LoD having this though.

>GoWIII is inferior to GoS?

Yes.

>This a knock against GoWII

No, I've been saying that I don't really like GoW1, so this isn't a knock against GoWII.

>GoWIII is inferior to GoS

In terms of gameplay?  A curious position.  A closer match than some others though.  Something to look at another time, I suppose.

>don't really like GoW1

Which shares the most attributes with GoWII of any entry (same engine).  So then, shall you lead us off regarding GoWIII vs GoW1?  Or would you prefer I do so?

Actually I don't know why I said I don't like GoW1. When I thought about it I remembered that I never said that I don't like it except when I got the the Cliffs of Madness.

>or would you prefer I do so?

Yes, you start so that I could know what points shall I speak of.