Final Fantasy VIII: A Very Negative Retrospective (Finally Completed)

Final Fantasy VIII Follow-Up

I'd like to start by saying that this write up will be structured a bit differently than the last one. For this game, instead of presenting it in 'parts' as I did with FFVII (because this game doesn't quite have the same four quarters that the last did) I will be breaking this game into a Pros and Cons sort of setup, and move on from there. Just a forewarning, this will NOT be a positive 'review'. I am going to stay as civil and non-troll like as possible, and I expect commenters to do the same. I have been proven wrong in my 'analysis' before and am not only open to discussion, I encourage it. Anyway, without further ado, let's start with the small list of positives. (by the way MAJOR SPOILERS IN THE FOLLOWING)

PROS:

1. The Music: I'd assume this would be pretty obvious, pretty much the entire FF Series has amazing music and this game is no different.

2. Though I hate to admit it since I dislike almost everything about this game... Final Fantasy VIII has my favorite video game opening of all time. Literally, no competition. I love FFVII, yeah the midgar entrance is cool but nothing compared to the FFVIII opening. Even say.. something like entering Rapture for the first time in Bioshock, and FFVIII still wins out for me (A bold statement I know) The Mixture of the beautiful score Liberi Fatali and the sword fight between Squall and Seifer gives me chills ever single time. The rest of the FMV's are equally beautiful.

3. The Character Design of Squall, Rinoa and Seifer... just the DESIGN of those characters and ONLY those characters... Enough Said.

4. The Rivarly between Squall and Seifer in itself. I love it when games give you a rival in this manner.

5. Laguna. And Squall

6. Once again, I hate to admit this.. but Final Fantasy VIII has one of the best final dungeons in any RPG ever. The design is interesting (though completely unfitting with the rest of the game) but has the interesting mechanic of giving you tons of puzzles to solve, splitting your party, and making you unlock all of your battle commands that are sealed as you enter. It's really an amazing setup and just about the only fun I had in this game.

7. Though this will ALSO return in the con's section later as it really depends on your perspective, if you play the game correctly Final Fantasy VIII requires no level grinding.. in fact... if you do it right it requires almost no battling whatsoever. If you work for the 'Encounter none' ability when you first get access to it, (about 3 hours into the game) you can literally go the entire rest of the game never fighting a random battle.

That's all I can think of for now, so let's move onto the 'Cons'

CONS:

EVERYTHING ELSE.

...Okay, that's a bit vague, let me be a bit more specific. I will start with the characters... and for the record, I'm not starting on Squall for a reason. So you know what we're getting into, you should know that almost every character in this world is COMPLETELY undeveloped and completely incompetent, I will give examples below.

1) Characters:

Quistis: Well we'll start with Quistis I guess... what's to say? She's a teacher with a whip. That's all you learn about her. Really.. that's it. She gets fired from teaching and becomes a normal soldier like the rest of the party members, just one of many incompetent characters in the game. Not to mention the time she LEAVES HER POST during an extremely important military mission to apologize for having a cat fight with another leading lady. This is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to the stupidity of this world's inhabitants.

Zell: Annoying... A fist fighter/martial artist kind of like Tifa... only a million times more annoying, energetic and idiotic. He is obsessed with hot dogs... that is his defining trait.. really... that's it. I'm not making this crap up guys... there's nothing more to these characters. Incompetent Moment: While on a military mission to kidnap the president, he gives away the location of their military group.. oh, did I mention it was broadcast on world wide television?

Selphie: even MORE annoying and energetic than Zell, but also a freakin' psycho. (There is a scene where the party is stuck in prison, and her plan of escape is 'Hmm, maybe we could skin this critter and where his skin as a disguise! Teehee!) like I said.. a psycho. She is the games 'kooky' character... so.. if you liked yuffie.. only with less intelligence... and more fan service, you should like Selphie. Oddly enough, Selphie is the MOST competent person in the game besides Squall, which is scary as hell. She does screw up multiple times, but nothing that is nearly as stupid as the other people. MINOR Incompetent moments: Jumping off cliffs, getting caught in an enemy military base (but still completeing the missions successfully) never being on time for anything.

Irvine: A military sharpshooter employed by garden who is a complete womanizer (that never succeeds at getting a girl). Incompetent moment of choice: Is on a huge military mission to assassinate someone and is unable to pull the trigger. YES there is a reason for this (turns out the lady used to be his mother figure, but we will get to THAT story masterpiece later) but he LITERALLY says during the mission that he ALWAYS FREEZES UP LIKE THIS his exact freakin' line! Which means he has failed at assassination missions before! Not to mention the fact that seconds ago he was shooting HUMAN GUARDS in the face with a shotgun. I don't know what's worse, that he's a failure of a marksmen or that he keeps getting hired.

Rinoa: awwww the main characters love interest, not in the military but still just as incompetent and just as annoying. This is a clingy girl who is constantly pining over Squalls RIVAL Seifer before inexplicably changing her feelings and going after Squall instead. (I think she's just lustful for gunblades). When you first meet her she is the 'princess' of a rebel movement trying to liberate her town from the rule of the president... which she fails miserably at repeatedly, not to mention that this little plot thread is completely forgotten just a little while after they fail at their attempt... great... storytelling.

Finally we move onto Squall... a character who I actually LIKE, if only because he's the only character in the entire freakin' world who has half a brain. Honestly people complain about his 'emo' attitude, but If I lived in a world filled with as many damn idiots as the inhabitants of Final Fantasy VIII I probably wouldn't want to talk to anyone else either. I actually highly empathize with Squall because everything is really thrust upon him. Multiple times throughout the story he is forced into more and more daunting leadership positions despite being a novice as a soldier... not to mention I like his character design and am one of the people who actually thinks his gunblade is cool.. (I actually have a Griever necklace of my own...)

Well that's it for the main cast but there are a few other characters worth mentioning:

Seifer: An arrogant loud-mouthed character you will love to hate, but is never once an actual threat (Then again, if you know how to play the game correctly you can 1-hit kill almost every boss in the game... so nothing is much of a threat). He is a good foil to Squall, and you will enjoy fighting him throughout the game, but aside from just being loud mouthed he really has no character or backstory to speak of... except for one thing later on that I can't WAIT to tear into.

Laguna: Laguna is my favorite character in the game.. he's a complete idiot but he's likable and hilarious. Honestly I'd like to see a game about HIM. He has more back story in his short scenes than any of the main characters do, and you know what? I find his ten minute long love story between him and Julia (and then later the offscreen romance between him and Raine) to be far more interesting and well written than that of Squall and Rinoa. Do you know why I feel that way? Because there was build-up and pay-off, something important to any script or story, with Rinoa and Squall, there IS no build-up... it's constant annoyance that inexplicably turns to love... sorry, this was supposed to be about Laguna not the romance. Anyway He, like Squall, is not a qualified to be a leader, yet he keeps getting put into that position, mostly because he's caring and likable, but even so I don't think he should have become president... but whaaaatever. Oh, a little side-note, if you are paying attention you find out that Laguna is actually Squall's father, but the game never says it outright and neither of them ever become aware of it.

I think that's really it for the characters. There are others like Ward, Kiros, and Edea, but none of them are really worth mentioning (except for Edea, but I want to leave her a mystery so I can point out how dumb her story is in the plot section).

The Story:

Well guys, I had about a ten page summary of the entire game typed out, and I realized two things 1) it didn't service my point very well and just made me rather irritated and 2) you guys aren't going to want to read all of that, so instead of pointing out every little flaw (if you really want to see that, go to thespoonyexperiment.com to see a couple hour long in depth and comical review of the game that is way better than anything I could come up with) I will just point out the parts of the story that really bothered me in a much more systematic matter. I'm still learning how to make these things informative and entertaining so bare with me. Constructive criticism is always welcome along with counter arguments and such.

Squall The Novice Leader: One thing about the games story that has always really bugged me is how Squall is constantly being forced into positions of power that he not only isn't qualified for, but he doesn't even want. Yeah I get him being Squad Leader for the timber mission, but what the hell was with him suddenly becoming the leader of the entire mercenary school after TWO OFFICIAL MISSIONS (which were failures, by the way). You're in a floating school/hovership FILLED with mercenarys, and they pick someone completely green... anything for plot convenience right?

FM-Static: It is established very early on in the game that this world's atmosphere has interference that blocks out all forms of long distance communication, yet somehow during this time period the inhabitants of this world are using remote controlled robots, broadcasting world-wide television and communicating with people in freakin' space? (Oh, and remotely controlled world spanning missles...) What the hell is wrong with this picture? Normally I would gloss over this but it's actually a really big plot point within the game.

Ellone and the Sorceresses One Plot Device to Rule them All: Ellone is a prop, not a character. They do a decent job trying to disguise her as a cute little girl in the Laguna Flashbacks... but in the end she's a plot device. I hated the Ellone part of the story, how she is somehow magically given the talent to send people through time.. but only through people's memories? And the whole time compression thing just... was out there. I'm not bashing that part in itself because afmittedly I probably just don't get it... and after all the other bull crap I really don't care if this phenomenon is explainable or not because it's just icing on the cake. After all, the fact that the main way to survive time compression is to 'believe in love' basically just ruins any seriousness the situation may have had. I've gotta say, I DID like the twist at the end however, where Squall was the cause of the whole time loopy situation and I liked the premise of sorceresses passing on their powers at the time of death.

Most Innefective Heroes Ever: I already spoke a lot about this in the character section and don't think I need to add much here. I am not of the mindset that the heroes should always win, in fact that makes for really boring storytelling, but these MILITARY TRAINED PROFESSIONALS never once succeed until the very end of the game. (Okay that's a slight exageration.. depending on how you define success you could argue they have a ratio of about 5 failures to every 1 success)

We All Came From Where!?: This particular element annoys me so much.. I don't get how fans of this game can over look this. You learn about 3/4s of the way through the game that 5 of the main party members (plus seifer) all came from... THE SAME ORPHANAGE! Oh but wait! It gets even better! None of the characters can remember this (except Irvine who stays completely silent about it for plot convenience) is because... GF's make you lose your memory! Something that was NEVER once before established within this games world. This and the radio section made me realize I should explain something. Every world has rules. Even games that are in the realm of fantasy have certain rules they need to follow, and a good fantasy will establish these rules early on so that the person visiting this world (whether it be someone watching a movie, reading a book, or in this case playing a game) has a grasp and understanding of how the world works, so they can become invested in it and understand how it differs from there own. FFVIII fails at this and it fails hard. It constantly contradicts itself in so many ways just to keep things moving... and it's really rather annoying. So next time someone points out 'oh it's a fantasy' to some of my arguments I will say, I know it is, but they are contradicting the world's rules that have already been set. Now the GF thing wasn't established earlier, so it wasn't really a contradiction, but it was obviously something they pulled right out of their rear end to make things fit together perfectly.

Deep Space - 9 things that were stupid about the space sequence:

1. Space Travel was never before established in the world of FFVIII

2. They don't tell you WHY you are going into space until after you are there

3. How can they communicate with space from the earth when there is atmospheric interference?

4. Squall's Leap of faith, romantic? Perhaps, but stupid.

5. A giant floating space ship just HAPPENS to appear in the nick of time within floating distance of Squall

6. Said spaceship is well known as the Ragnarok but has never been searched for or recovered by the people of the planet

7. Said Spaceship is still in fully functioning shape and has enough fuel to take them home

8. Out of all the 'romantic' scenes in the game they waste 'Eyes On Me' HERE,

9. The people of Earth randomly send out a signal to the ragnarok when Squall is on it... even though the ship has been abandoned for who knows how long... the odds of their survival was literally unmeasurably low, and once again COMMUNICATION OF THAT TYPE IS IMPOSSIBLE.

Must Love Dogs: Or in this case must inexplicably love the annoying as hell girl you've been wanting to slap since the story started who just happens to OWN a dog. The Love Story in this game is bad guys... it really is. Once again I've already discussed this in the comments. For a story of ANY kind to work, it has to have Build-up and Pay-off... and the romance between Squall and Rinoa.. just.. didn't. The entire time Squall finds Rinoa annoying and wants her out of his way (and rightfully so) and then literally like turning on a light switch he inexplicably is turned into a whiny, annoying pathetic excuse for a man while trying to get her fixed up (and this was only about two game sections after willingly letting her dangle off the edge of a floating cliff for a half an hour). I understand being broken up over your lover being hurt or dying, in fact, Squall's reaction was very understandable.. IF HE HAD SHOWN ANY SIGNS OF LIKING HER BEFORE THIS MOMENT. Not only that but the lengths Squall goes to for this girl go beyond heroic and sweet to the point that they are so drastic and over the top I can't take it seriously anymore (like the space scene) they share so little chemistry on screen and it's just.. not well done.

I dream of Genie Laguna:

As much as I love Laguna and the dream sequences about him, they actually really interupt the flow of the game and add up to.. close to nothing by the time the game ends. Yeah we get some insight on him and Ellone... and it explains a little of what made the world the way it is.. but it feels like they skipped over all of the really important parts that they SHOULD have shown us if they were going to try and make this a valid form of exposition. I mean my god, what did the movie set dream have to do with ANYTHING? What it really comes down too is I think they kept in the dream sequences just to give an explanation for how Zell has the knowledge of the controls in the dessert prison.. but thank god they kept in these sequences because Laguna was one of the few things that made me laugh in the game, and that helped me through the slow parts.

There are a lot of other small things I could nit-pick about or rip into, but I think these points cover most of the bases that Really bothered me. If I think of more later I can always add them.

Gameplay:

And now for the most important part, and I know that there are many common complaints about this games gameplay and I really don't plan on harping on the usual ones (like drawing magic) NEARLY as much as other people do, mostly because there are a lot of other flaws that I think people are missing that need to be pointed out such as:

Pointless Padding and Backtracking: I know you could argue every JRPG has some amount of backtracking, and it is something we've come to expect. FFVIII doesn't have bad backtracking when it comes to the over world really, in fact most of the backtracking feels even MORE monotonous to me because it's so frequent in Small areas. For example, during the scene where balamb garden is under attack you have to run back and forth throughout the garden THREE TIMES just to be told random bullcrap that doesn't add to the story or gameplay at ALL. It's all Padding. Another section that annoys the hell out of me is the damn Prison escape, where you literally walk up the same copied and pasted floors 13 times, then you have to go back down all 13... and then back up once more. What is this bull crap? It is put in LITERALLY just to waste our time and it's pathetic. Not to mention all the scenes in the game where they literally make you just stand around for a set period of time until someone talks, and 90% of those scenes aren't even for emotional effect, they are just there for no reason (like when you are waiting for you SeeD exam results in the hallway, or your talking to Quistis in the training center about literally NOTHING). If these things had only happened a couple of times I could forgive them, but they are a constant annoyance in this game.

Puzzles/Mazes: The puzzles in this game are pathetic, not only in how easy they are to solve but by how blatantly time wasting they are meant to be. I never once felt accomplished after completing a puzzle in this game (with the exception of the Final Dungeon which was brilliant, but I already talked about that). The Brothers maze was dumb and easily solved, (just keep going right) The sewer maze didn't require a guide even when I was a kid, just keep opening gates and you'll find your way, hell I didn't even find the puzzles for getting secret GF's to be at all interesting. For the record, I'm not saying a good RPG has to have good puzzles, but these were obviously put in JUST to waste our time. There was ZERO thought put into them.

Drawing Magic:

Like I said I'm not going to harp on this too much. Drawing magic really was never a huge negative in my book, yeah it was monotonous, but it wasn't any more so then normal level grinding. And I actually respect that they were trying something new with the system. It... didn't really work, but I respect the attempt.

Exploration: I will admit up front that this is far more subjective than any of the other gameplay sections, but to me, the world of Final Fantasy VIII is just... boring. Completely 100% boring. There is not a single location in the entire game that I find interesting in the slightest. It's trying to be realistic.. but then it's trying to be fantasy? I'm okay with the shifting setting, hell a lot of RPGs do that, but it REALLY doesn't mesh in Final Fantasy VIII. For example: lots of people like to say that Fisherman's Horizon is there favorite town and I always wonder why. Nothing happens there. It's only stand out feature is being slightly bigger than most of the other towns in the game. Anyway, most of the game of the world is drawn in grays and blues (ironically my two favorite colors) but it's all so samey and just.. blah. The world feels so empty, and it never feels like anything is at stake within the world. The entire world just feels completely barren of life because everything is so 2-dimensional (I don't mean literally by the way, I mean in terms of anything interesting residing in the world). Honestly I would prefer NO exploration to boring exploration... well... maybe not... look at FFXIII

Balancing Issues: This is easily the thing that ruins the game most for me, and there are so many details that add up to make this game literally broken. It takes knowledge of the games systems to break it this way, but even players on their first run through of the game can become abusively powerful with a little simple experimentation. The mix of the Junction system and the fact that the enemies level with you takes all of the strategy out of the game. The most effective tactic in this game is literally to never use any magic, GFs or special abilities, just keep your characters well junctioned, push attack every round and you will NEVER have to heal in battle. I have argued this point until I was blue in the face in numerous posts in this thread already and I really don't want to type it all out again. Sorry for being lazy but I feel I have explained this section in great detail already.

Gameplay Conclusion: With everything I mentioned above, the gameplay literally held no interest for me whatsoever. A normal JRPG only has two forms of gameplay, the battles, and the exploration/puzzles, neither of which were done well in this game. The only fun part of this game gameplay-wise, funnily enough, is Triple Triad... the mini-game WITHIN the game. The card game is fun and addictive but also holds 'real-world' rewards by letting you refine the cards you win into into items that can be used to craft better weapons or literally make you invincible. (Sadly they ruin this card game in FFIX though, which so far as I'm playing, is the exact opposite too FFVIII... it's interesting, entertaining, creatively designed, and is good in every aspect EXCEPT the card game... but we'll get to that soon enough won't we?) Anyway, point is, when your mini-game WITHIN the game is more fun than the entirety of your main adventure, you know you're doing something wrong.

FINAL VERDICT:

I've got to say... as much as I whined and groaned about how much I didn't like this game and all the things that are wrong with it... A small part of me can still recommend it to the right kind of gamer. FFVIII is an rpg that you just have to turn your brain off and enjoy, which is something I have trouble doing, especially when most of the games in the series are so well crafted story wise. As far as the gameplay problems, a lot of fans seem to have a differing opinion, and honestly if you are playing without a guide and aren't really trying to experiment with the junction system, you PROBABLY won't completely break the games difficulty on your first run. The love story, admittedly does have it's moments, hough people who claim it's the best in the series are out of their mind... FFVI, IX and X all had better love stories with far more intriguing characters. Basically if you can get past all of that as well as the many... plot 'conveniences' then you might get some enjoyment out of it, at the very least you will be listening to a kick-a$$ soundtrack as you suffer (or enjoy).

Edit: I also want to point out that this is in comparison to other Final Fantasy Games, not just as an RPG on it's own merits (which in my eyes, would make it admittedly average). It is one of my least favorites in a series filled with mostly top tier games, and despite my groveling, I can still see myself picking this up and playing it again in the future if I'm in the mood for an RPG that I don't have to think  about while I play. In other words, I'd put this just slightly above Mystic Quest as far as enjoyment value goes (which would seem like an insult but I actually liked the dungeon design in Mystic Quest a lot). This is no where near a level of rage or dislike for this game as I'd have for something... like FFXIII for example... but then again, nothing can really compare to my disapointment in that regard.

I have only played about half way through this game, but what I have played of it I have really enjoyed. (Note to self...see if the game is still on the PlayStation store.) Anyway. I lost what I was going to say next... if I remember, I will post again lol.

It's still on PSN, in fact they are about to have a 50% off sale on almost every ff game on there, so now would be the chance to buy it cheap. PSN actually has FF I - IX all available for download, though FFIII is psp exclusive from PSN.

One of the key things I really want to stress with these write ups is that there is a huge difference between finding a game enjoyable and it actually being technically 'good'. As I said in previous posts  in other threads, I love some really bad games, but they are still BAD games. To be a good critic you have to be able to point out the flaws in something even if you like it ... in this case... I really just.. don't like it... not for anything more than nostalgic value that is(and this game holds a lot of nostalgia for me)

Right I completely understand. I guess I'm not much of a gamer anymore . I have always loved the ff  games, but just don't have the time or patience to play anymore. I will look into hooking my ps3 back up and getting the ff  games though. 

Final Fantasy VIII got me into the series and it's also my favorite in the series.D3dr0_0

That's cool, a persons first Final Fantasy is almost always one of their favorites, I have a soft spot for FFVII despite it's numerous flaws it still has an effect on me that the other games don't... on the other hand FFVII still isn't even in my top five Final Fantasy Games.... sooooo take that as you will.

The hope is that the "Ivalice Alliance" can make more games, it is quite a while since last time now. Thats the Square sub studio that made FFXII, Vagrant Story, Tactics and all that. It is a really impressing game list too.

Sadly I cannot debate with you on FF8, I have not put myself enough into it to be able to discuss it. 

I have never played 12 .I can barely get past the beginning of 9 :( I really need to hook my ps3 back up and start playing again. just haven't really been in the mood to.

Final Fantasy VIII got me into the series and it's also my favorite in the series.D3dr0_0

Same here... though it was my first RPG too :P. Back then I really didnt know too much about mechanics, story and all that stuff.. but this game got me into the FF and RPG world so, I pretty much have a high respect for it. AS for the charatcer, yeah, not the best choice :P but what I really liked was the love story part between Rinoa and Squall, how he realizes his feelings and go to search for her despite everything else...lol.. at times it becomes more important to save Rinoa tha to save the world from Ultimecia ..lol..

I just wrote a really long response to this page... and gamespot failed to submit it.. so now I have to rewrite it and it's not going to be nearly as good... I suggest every time you type a long message you copy it before pushing the submit button, just in case... this isn't the first time I've had this problem this week, this was just the first time it was a long message.

Yeah I didn't care for Vaan... on the other hand I didn't mind Tidus nearly as much as other people did, I thought his whinyness was rather justified considering his position, not to mention that he isn't supposed to be all that likable, he is supposed to be young and naive and stupid. And as for FFXII again... Balthier is my favorite character, his awesome attitude mixed with his constant stage puns really works for me, especially considering my background in theater <<...>>

Anyway, the romance in FFVIII did not work for me. The way it's written is terrible, within seconds Squall's opinion changes from 'get this annoying b*tch away from me' to, 'oh my god she's the only person who understands me! booo hoooooo' when EVERYONE IN THE FREAKIN' GAME HAS A THING FOR HIM AND WANTS HIM TO OPEN THE HELL UP.  There were exactly two moments in the entire game where I actually felt the romance between the two of them, the first waswhen she was knocked out and he was carrying her around on his back, the second was at the VERY end of the game (after the credits) where they were standing on the balcony together. That was it. I didn't like bedside scenes in the hospital, I didn't like when everyone made sure SQUALL was the only one who could save her damn life when she was dangling off the side of a floating ship for over 20 minutes, and I HATED the space sequence. It was god awful cheesiness mixed with absolutely NO believablitiy, even in the so called 'fantasy' world of Final Fantasy VIII. It was so overblown and idiotic that not only did I not find it sweet, it made me want to quit playing. It had so many plot 'conveniences' in that one sequence that I don't even know where to start... but I will talk about that once I finish this write up... (which I may work on more now actually since this got me in the mood to write it)

Anyway, I really should finish this thing, I love having intelligent discussions about these things, and I love hearing differing opinions, I like to have insight on how other people view tings differently... it's probably my love of psychology or something. I do plan on going back and writing these on the main series entries I skipped (FFIV, FFV, and FFVI) but I'm not sure about 1-3... there would be a lot less to say because the stories are very thin in comparison... what do you guys think?

Edit: I added Seifer and Laguna to the character section and am now moving onto the story.

 within seconds Squall's opinion changes from 'get this annoying b*tch away from me' to, 'oh my god she's the only person who understands me!

Xx_Kares_xX

I remember enjoying the romance in FFVIII, but you bring up a good point.  When does squall actually start having feelings for Rinoa?  Unless, of course, he always had them, but was too busy trying to maintain his Keanu Reevesish roboticism ;)  I actually did like the space scene the best though.  Regardless of cheesiness (which I don't think you can have romance without that factor haha) he's jumping into the void with little to no chance of survival just to be with the person he cares for most just a few minutes longer.  Hypothetically, if such a thing were to happen in real life (open your minds and humor me) it would perhaps be the ballsiest thing ever.  Would you do that for your wife or girlfriend and/or husband or boyfriend?  It's literally a leap of faith, so I give the game props for that.  I think beyond those thoughts I have about it, overall I find FFVIII to have a decidedly different feel about it in comparison to the others.  Maybe this is just me but there's a disguised peace about the game.  It's not like VII where the threat of imminent doom is always lingering with meteor constantly visible in the sky.  The excitement and tension in VIII often creeps up on you and then BAM you're fighting for you life, or HOLY CRAP that continent just got obliterated with little to no prior warning!  I still don't know if I would have thought all those monsters on the moon were suddenly going to mass together and fall on the planet in a giant beam of grossness. It's completely ridiculous, but I loved it *shrug*

 As for FFX, it may be my favorite because it was my first. Fantastic music.  Tidus is not cool in any way, but he is good at what he does i.e. fighting and playing insane underwater sports.  You have to give him that.  FFXII, I hated the combat. Gambits were awesome but I disliked the way the rest felt like a MMO while not being an MMO and I generally disliked espers.  Maybe i would feel differently if I took my time and gave it a replay, but I don't think I ever will since I sold my copy.  

Thanks for the Input. I can admit and agree to the fact that Squall's actions during the space scene were rather... not heroic or romantic but... a word in between there that I can't find at the moment. I'm okay with THAT, I'm talking about them ever being in that situation in the first place is just so ridiculous and irritating that I can't look past it. I never really saw the angle of, "I want to spend my last minutes of life with her" and that's interesting and find that slightly more effective emotionally than what I felt the game was trying to portray, which was, "I Must jump into space to save rinoa! ... well sh*t this was a terrible idea...I wish I'd thought this through" which the dialogue almost directly states is the case. I belive squall's more exact line was, "well... now what".

It's very true that FFVIII has a different feel to the other Final Fantasy Games, and I've been thinking about that for a while when I was working on this write up and trying to see different view points. I even came too the fufther conclusion however that Final Fantasy VIII is different from pretty much every other RPG out there from the somewhat futuristic but.. really not setting to the modern day, essentially real world characters you could pick up off the street, and I think that's what people DO like about it, which I can respect, but I'd also like to point out that a game of this style has never really been made since... showing it was kind of a failure.

I never felt any tension throughout Final Fantasy VIII (even the first time I played it when I was about 9 or 10 years old?) because the junction system (even without a walkthrough... it's not hard to exploit guys, just draw 100 magic from every enemy you see and you WILL learn what works and what doesn't) made the game a complete cake walk, and the story never interested me enough for there to be any tension on that end of the spectrum either. (Okay, that's only partially true.. the very first time I played the game I felt tension during the assassination sequence when Irvine wimped out, but that was it) 

You said that the game lulled you into a false sense of security and I didn't find that was the case either, what you said was 'a continent getting destroyed without warning' too meemed far more like bad writing than an intentional surprise. We don't know enough about the world in Final Fantasy VIII or the people to have any emotional ties to them, so when the continent blows up it doesn't MATTER. Theonly reason the game gives us to worry at all is because Selphie has friends that live there... whom the player has never met and Selphie has never even MENTIONED. 

It's like I said before, in any narrative you need set-up and pay-off, neither of which were  very well put together in FFVIII's narrative.

On a side note I DID forget to mention two sequences in the game that I DID like, One was the train sequence, and the other was the war on Balamb (but even that was drug WAY down by the amount of backtracking you had to do.. you have to run in and out of the infirmary three times to move events along and NOTHING HAPPENS THERE, not to mention the few times you are also called back to the bridge for no reason). So even then I liked it for it's creativity, but it's exectuion was very sloppy.

Yeah if you don't enjoy the characters or feel like the story is fleshed out properly, there's not much I could do to change your mind, and I'm not going to try.  The way you feel about this game is almost the same as how I feel about XII.  But how's this for a think: having Trabia get nailed by the lunar cry isn't something that we would really care about, but compare it to a real world example.  (I like doing these if you haven't noticed. Puts a new perspective on things emotionally.)  Let's say that all of central africa suddenly gets obliterated by a meteor, or multiple H-bombs.  Let's also say we have no connection to that place i.e. friends or family; however, we were in a position to help, yet were rendered completely helpless and forced to watch it happen on a screen.  I can only imagine how I would feel after that.  Devastation.  Completely unimaginable.  Survivor's guilt, PTSD, the works.  Pretty freaky right?  Then again this is just me imprinting how I would want "my cast of FFVIII characters" to think and feel.  That's a whole other kettle of fish. Read Final Fantasy and Philosophy

I've actually heard about that book and thought it looked interesting, except I heard it was just a bunch of essays that loosely related to it or something? Or maybe that was another book. I understand the real-life connections, which is why it was in the game in the first place (japan obviously has reasons to be affected by things like that) and if it WERE real it would be devastating, but It's not.

 You won't change my mind, but that's not what it's about, I like to see other perspectives anyway, and you have given me great insights that I highly appreciate. 

Hey Juked, you shouldnt give up in trying to change Kares mindset, he does have flaws too. Since I really cant state my opinion on FF8 because of my lack of ever deeply involving myself in the story of the game, I cannot really switch Kares mind around on this one. It is possible though, just continue on the broken path. Oh and you are completly correct about that the best way to enjoy a game is if you immerse yourself into it. I hope you can be able to contribute on later discussion about the series, another viewpoint would be much much better.

You maybe shouldnt release long reviews for FF4-6, simply because I have still to see one of the others come with a statement about the earlier games (As I said, prove me wrong)... You already probably know my viewpoint on the games and especially on FFVI and if it ends up with only me reading them, that would be a waste of time.

@ D3dr0_0 Final Fantasy II was also very flawed, and you have to play it a VERY specific way (the way the designers intended) to really get any enjoyment out of it. On the other hand it was their second RPG... not their 8th in the series... so I am far more forgiving of it. Okaaay that's too harsh, I do think FFVIII is better than FFII because FFVIII may not have any challenge, but FFII is pretty much unplayable if you don't know what you are doing, but my last run through of FFII (the third time I'd played it through too completion) I actually played it the 'correct' way and it was MUCH easier... (though still had it's cheap moments with all the insta-kill enemies)

Edit: 

I also agree with Lordmew, I'm not trying to claim to be perfect. Fact is.. opinions are like... brains... 95% of people have them and those that don't are mindless drones. Okay.. that wasn't as clever as it sounded in my head but whatever lol. In all seriousness my 'opinion' isn't really changing, but like I said it's helping me understand what other people DO see in it and why the game has merit, which helps me become better at reviewing things in general, so I really do thank you guys for these discussions.. that and I really do find them interesting and entertaining.. but I guess I could just be weird x.x lol.

Lordmew helped me discover something about FFVI that I was seeing completely wrong, and that one fact changed my whole outlook on the game surprisingly enough (not that it was a matter like this where it changed me from disliking a game to liking it, but it helped me realize a character was far more interesting and integral to the plot than I'd previously thought)

Depending on if you grind to do the bonus dungeon or not.. the main game is about 20 hours if you know what you are doing. I spent 50 on my 'complete' run though @.@ (FFII)

For a while it was just Lordmew and I around and I was desperatly trying to keep things alive, sorry for all the topics ^^'

FFII is the Black Sheep in the series... sooooo just keep that in mind.

Lol, ran into some trouble with other people huh?

What? me? NOOOO! hehe yeah...*runs away*

Isnt calling FFXIII an unfinished aborted fetus of the FF series a bit to underwhelming? Honestly, they made it worse with continuing on making sequels on it, but we have already raged enough on FFXIII, lets spare it to Kares lengthy review of the game we all know and hate.

I think the MMOs were fairly well made, FFXI it is the only MMO to make a boss so hard that people couldnt beat it in a week. I kinda liked how FFXI was, the only thing that brought it all down was that it was to consoles. FFXIV has some epic trailers, but I havent seen any gameplay at all so I cannot give a statement on that. 

FFII is definatly the black sheep for FF, while the FFMMOs are the retarded bear and FFXIII is a mushroom to the series (the ones that eat the brain of other creatures)

So many posts to read through, it's crazy. Got some crazy activity in this one topic :P

I look forward to Kares rundown of FFXIII. It shall be entertaining to see his and everyone elses hatred for the game.