Final Fantasy VII: What I've Learned and why it's not as good as you may recall

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Balmane

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#101 Balmane
Member since 2008 • 13255 Posts
No.... BASCH!!
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Xx_Kares_xX

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#102 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
Yeah Basch was pretty awesome too... but he just didn't have the witty one liners or the laid back attitude that made Balthier so awesome.
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lordmew

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#103 lordmew
Member since 2009 • 1315 Posts
Guys.... Montblanc is the only God, the only one comming close is Balthier though so Kares is closer too it :P
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Xx_Kares_xX

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#104 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
lmfao... Montblanc is pretty cool... his stats aren't very good in FFTA though so I never use him anymore (then again I'm the type that spends the first 5 to 10 hours saving, quiting and reloading until I get characters from the 'help wanted' missions with the best possible stats).
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D3dr0_0

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#105 D3dr0_0
Member since 2008 • 3530 Posts
I could see Basch as the lead since he got framed big time from the judges by using Gabranth.
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Xx_Kares_xX

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#106 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
I think that was the intention, either way those 4 are great... why they added Vaan and Penelo, who knows. (well... we do know why...buuuuuuut whatever)
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D3dr0_0

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#107 D3dr0_0
Member since 2008 • 3530 Posts
I may need a reminder.
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Xx_Kares_xX

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#108 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
basically Japan had a test group play it, and they complained that the main characters were too old and non-relatable.. thus Vaan was thrown in. I think they added Penelo just because they needed someone for Vaan to interact with before he finally meets up with Balthier and the others.
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#109 D3dr0_0
Member since 2008 • 3530 Posts
A test group of what? Children? That's a case when they shouldn't listen to the fans.
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Xx_Kares_xX

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#110 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
I have no idea honestly.
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irishdude199210

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#111 irishdude199210
Member since 2010 • 2517 Posts
I'm also a big fan of Balthier and Basch. In fact, FFXII's characters and world weren't at all bad (Vann and Penelo aren't very memorable though). FFXII is a game I'd very much like to play again. I did enjoy it when it came out but I never completed it. I think the mist attacks were a bit weird.
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Xx_Kares_xX

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#112 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts

I didn't like it at first because of how differnet it was,but once I got past that I can honestly say it's one of the most well constructed games in the series.

 

The Quickenings were rather odd, and in the International version they actually changed how they worked so that they had their own meter instead of being the MP charges, I think that was a vast improvement but sadly I don't have the international version @.@

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#113 D3dr0_0
Member since 2008 • 3530 Posts
I would have enjoyed XII a lot more if either Balthier or Basch were the main character. I too would like to play it for a third time.
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lordmew

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#114 lordmew
Member since 2009 • 1315 Posts

Penelo was an okey characther overall, but Vaan was so stupid. They mentioned his brother twice or something and started the game off with him, but I would rather have Rex than Vaan in my party, god damnit.

There is actually two places in the game that I really really hate, Sochen Cave Palace and Feywood. Sochen had that infernous ghost that I used ages on, which in turn made me hate the place and Feywood... is a maze... 

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Xx_Kares_xX

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#115 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts

I never got lost anywhere in that game.. that's what the map was for...? My least favorite location in the entire game was the dungeon right before the Shy Fortress Bahamut... I don't remember much about it but it was really annoying and tedious.

 

How can you defend Penelo and not Vaan? I'm rather confused. Penelo literally had NO purpose whatsoever, at least Vaan had the story about his brother and the desire to be a sky pirate, penelo had NO purpose but to act like Vaan's freakin' mother. Personally Penelo didn't really bother me either, but I don't see the arguement that she has more merit than Vaan did.

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lordmew

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#116 lordmew
Member since 2009 • 1315 Posts

I dont know if we should spare this discussion to the actual FFXII thread, but I can give you the cream of my opinions. Vaans story was loosly based, he is that thief that has dreams and all that stuff that everyone looks up to. The problem I has with the hole consept of Vaan is that he basicly got no story whatsoever and they decided on making him the moron of the game, he has no knowledge of what happens around him at all times and the only time he shines is when it is talk about skyships.

Penelo had a much more open space they could use, she had a bigger backstory than Vaan (she actually had parents, which could have become a thing later on in the game), she has knowledge of the world, but most importantly she is an inwards person and shy (here my psycological side kicks in, but Ill spare it til the review itself). Imagine if Square alowed the characther to blossom completly, you could create a characther that is interresting and got a reason for being there.

I could have continued on, but Ill wait for some feedback... (and I am in class right now, I am supposed to remember the arteries and chambers of the heart, but discussing games on  the internet is more fun:P

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Xx_Kares_xX

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#117 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
Penelo HAD potential sure, but they never DID anything with it, thus.. kind of making your opinion invalid. Vaan was purposefully stupid because he was the character we were viewing the world through. It's the same concept as in The Lord of the Rings when you are seeing the world through Frodo's eyes, we don't know anything about the world and neither do they, which is why it makes sense for the other characters to explain things to Vaan/Frodo and more importantly explain things to US as the player, But yeah you're right we should wait to get too far into this until I get to the game lol.
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lordmew

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#118 lordmew
Member since 2009 • 1315 Posts
As I said, it was the cream of it. and it is kinda a bad argument saying that she is inferior since they didnt do anything with her, as I said, she is not inferior since they had more possibilities than Vaan. But yeah, lets continue it on a later date
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Xx_Kares_xX

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#119 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
Inferior isn't even the correct word, in all honesty I liked Penelo too, it's not like she's a bad character or annoying (my god THANK you for not making her a Selphie or Rikku... this game did not need a 'kooky' character)
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JukedSolid

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#120 JukedSolid
Member since 2006 • 991 Posts
or a...vanille *shudders*
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Xx_Kares_xX

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#121 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts

or a...vanille *shudders*JukedSolid

I was thinking that as well but really didn't want to go there ^^' as much as I am  a 'critic' and someone who enjoys bashing things that deserve it I hate to come off purely as a troll, so I thought I'd give the XIII thing a break ^^'

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JukedSolid

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#122 JukedSolid
Member since 2006 • 991 Posts
That particular character archetype confuses me in general. Who exactly does it appeal to?
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#123 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
It's actually a really popular thing in Japan... and too a lot of Teenage boys in general from what I understand. It has to do with Moe archtypes and what people find attractive.
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JukedSolid

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#124 JukedSolid
Member since 2006 • 991 Posts
Well, to each his own, but everything about the concept of "Moe" is something I find just as appealing as the "valley girl" lol
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#125 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts

It's definitely a culture thing, but what I didn't learn until recently is that 'moe' is actually a term that encompasses EVERY archtype that men find attractive, and actually it was put in place so that men could feel attracted to women without feeling guilty for watching things that were all just.. well kind of smut.

 

Anyway my point was, moe is most often used to describe girls that are 'cute and good willed but rather clumsy' when that is only one small facet of the entire moe spectrum.

 

Yep.. I'm not sounding like an Otaku/nerd at all now am I? lol

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JukedSolid

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#126 JukedSolid
Member since 2006 • 991 Posts

Stop! I'm afraid for your health! haha Having the information is handy but leave it in the void where it belongs :x

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#127 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
I'm sorry!! I feel great shame! lol The sad thing is I wouldn't even have learned this crap if it weren't for my Bestfriend and Girlfriend! Before I was just a gamer they are determined to make me full on Otaku!!! x.x
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irishdude199210

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#128 irishdude199210
Member since 2010 • 2517 Posts
Japanese guys like women who are cute and very girly, hence why you get annoying characters like Vanille in FF games. As far I can tell, they're sexist in Japan. My uncle worked there for a while and he said when they came to Ireland they had women carry out their luggage for them. I'm not sure how long ago that was, maybe it's not so bad these days. Talking of really girly characters though, let's consider Star Ocean 4. I haven't played a lot of Star Ocean 4 yet (it's just an okay game) but there's a character called Lymle who is the very apex of the annoying character pyramid. To be fair, I've only played the game for 15 hours and perhaps she 'fleshes out ' or becomes tolerable as the game goes on. So far, she is apparently 15 years old despite literally being the same height and talking the same as a 5 year old. She keeps saying 'kay' at the end of 99% of her sentences! Characters like that make me take the game way less seriously, especially because I prefer 'dark' themes in games, for example, Dark Souls and Demon's Souls. You can change the language the voices are spoken but I couldn't be bothered reading the subtitles. I don't think it would make a major difference anyway.
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Xx_Kares_xX

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#129 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts

Yeah, Star Ocean 4 is the worst of the bunch from what I've played... funnily enough I feel like each Star Ocean game has gotten worse as time went on. (Okay that's not true, it goes 2,1,3, then 4 from best to worst) I don't want to get into a debate on what's sexist or not because frankly I think the whole debate is blown way out or proportion. Men and women are fundamentally different and there are many aspects where they should (and are) treated differently, and in many cases it is actually a benefit TO women in most western societies.

 

Anyway, most JRPGs aren't supposed to be taken seriously, hell the most popular franchise in japan is Dragon Quest, and there is close to nothing to take seriously about those games. I think that's the point, over all their way of life and structure is FAR more strict than ours, so when they are enjoying their free time they DON'T want to have to take things too seriously.

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JukedSolid

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#130 JukedSolid
Member since 2006 • 991 Posts
haha sexism convos. Anybody see *that* feedbacula episode? Now that was a big huge forehead smack. At least we still have Legend of Dragoon. I love that game.
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Xx_Kares_xX

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#131 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
Wait... what does Legend of Dragoon have to do with anything? I hated that Feedbackula because they weren't being smart about the issue most of the time x.x.  The whole characters in games being sexist baffles me.
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irishdude199210

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#132 irishdude199210
Member since 2010 • 2517 Posts
I only played Dragon Quest VIII but I wouldn't say it wasn't a serious game. Dhoulmagus was a fantastic villain. Plus the game wasn't piss easy. I only played the game once but I very much enjoyed it and its sense of humour. When you 'use' a cowpat item, it says "Hero (or whatever you name the main character) grips the cowpat tightly!....Hero deeply regrets what he just did" :lol: I take FF games seriously. I don't know what genre Demons Souls or Dark Souls are (Japanese games, western influences) but they sure as hell need to be taken seriously. I think what you're thinking is that if something seems ridiculous or far fetched in the game then it can't be taken seriously.
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Xx_Kares_xX

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#133 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
Technically the  DS games (lawl) fall into the WRPG category, not the JRPG category.  To be perfectly honest, I haven't played through a lot of the DQ games but I have almost all of them now, it's rather depressing because I really WANT to like them but they are just so samey and not all that interesting. I'm thinking the games will get better (as I've only played the first three in the main series) but still.
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Balmane

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#134 Balmane
Member since 2008 • 13255 Posts

haha sexism convos. Anybody see *that* feedbacula episode? Now that was a big huge forehead smack. At least we still have Legend of Dragoon. I love that game.JukedSolid

I loved that game! I almost finished it but the 4th disc broke!! NOOOOOO..... I may have a different opinion on it now as it has been years since I played it but in my memories it is still one of my fave.

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Xx_Kares_xX

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#135 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
I liked LoD a LOT, but like you said it's been a long time so I don't know how well it holds up. I can see some problems with it just looking back, but I think it did a brilliant job of making battles challenging and making you strategize in ways that most RPGs don't.
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JukedSolid

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#136 JukedSolid
Member since 2006 • 991 Posts

I just mentioned it in the first place because none of the characters struck me quite as over the top as they get in various other games. I found the whole cast arguably likeable. I do love that game though. I played it again only recently and it just made me remember how absolutely awesome Dart is. He may have the best moral fiber in a video game protagonist you will ever find. [spoiler] LOVE the part where he tosses his sword aside and just buries his fist in Lloyd's face rather than killing him in revenge [/spoiler]

It seems like most of us have played this game, but I added the spoiler just in case :)

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Xx_Kares_xX

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#137 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
lol I forgot about that part until you mentioned! that was amazing.. I really want to replay that game now. And ah okay, I understand your reason for mentioning it now.  I remember really liking Haschel? (sp?) I thought he was a fun character... and Rose was a badass too.. oh.. and of Course Lavitz... I guess it did have a pretty interesting cast now that I'm starting to remember... screw Meru though... she was annoying and really weak... I never liked her in my party
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JukedSolid

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#138 JukedSolid
Member since 2006 • 991 Posts
HASCHEL-SHISHOU! Legit. My party was almost always Dart-Rose-Haschel. I mixed it up with Albert when I could though because the game likes taking your party members away so they can randomly go on a personal sabbatical for moments at a time ;)
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#139 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
I don't remember that at all.. funnily enough though, I think LoD was the first RPG I actually completed (not counting games like KH of course) Not the first I played but the first I beat. Yeah I think I always used that party too.. until Rosa started dying to easily... I remember my last part was just Gigantes, Dart, and Albert for their HP alone.
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#140 JukedSolid
Member since 2006 • 991 Posts
I may have had some sort of HP boosting item, or maybe a defense doubling item on Rose, because the game does have really low health for the girl characters. Weird but true. She's just so much faster than any of the other characters, and her strength was always on par with Dart's. Man I want to play KH again. I and II. Darnit I just want III already! However, I am rather glad that they're taking their time on it to make it good (hopefully) like Disney did with TRON.
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#141 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
They... haven't even started KHIII... The KH team has spent all this time working on Versus XIII... that's why we've only got handheld games and such.
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#142 JukedSolid
Member since 2006 • 991 Posts
well that sucks haha. if/when they do make it, I really hope they don't pump it out all half-cocked.
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#143 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
Normally (since it's in the hands of Square) I'd be worried about that happening, but every game in the KH series has been at the very least passable (Re:coded) and the rest have all been good if not better, so I'm pretty confident it will be good ^^.
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#144 JukedSolid
Member since 2006 • 991 Posts
Keeping the fingers crossed. I've only played three really. KH I&II and then birth by sleep.
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#145 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
You're not missing much really... Chain of Memories and 358/2 DO actually fill in plot points you may be missing... but Re:Coded  didn't tell you ANYTHING and KH:3D was just a VERY shallow attempt to try and link Birth By Sleep into the series more, without actually progressing the over all series story at all.
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#146 angelbless
Member since 2003 • 8474 Posts

You're not missing much really... Chain of Memories and 358/2 DO actually fill in plot points you may be missing... but Re:Coded  didn't tell you ANYTHING and KH:3D was just a VERY shallow attempt to try and link Birth By Sleep into the series more, without actually progressing the over all series story at all.Xx_Kares_xX

I really hope they release KHIII someday.. well, at least we will have KH 1.5 and probably KH 2.5 with KHiI and KHBBS HD :)

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#147 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
I just want them to release the Final Mix versions of the games whether they are 'HD' or not.
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#148 JukedSolid
Member since 2006 • 991 Posts
you know I saw the news about those games but I didn't look up what they are or what they are even about (are they just HD version for PS3) so...I think I'm going to go do that haha
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#149 Xx_Kares_xX
Member since 2009 • 1479 Posts
As you should!
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#150 D3dr0_0
Member since 2008 • 3530 Posts
So KH2.5 would have KH2 and BBS? Anything else?