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foxhound_fox

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#1 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Without looking at Wikipedia, or any other source of information, what do you guys know about Zoroastrianism off the top of your head? I'm interested to know what, if anything, anyone knows about the religion, given how little I knew about it and how little it is ever talked about anywhere.

I've recently become interested in Zoroastrianism and its influence on other religions of the region, specifically Christianity and its conceptualization of "Hell" and how similar it is to the idea of the punishment in the afterlife within the faith of Zoroaster.

If anyone knows about the paper I did recently (Gabu will know for sure), they will know that I have begun a personal exploration of the idea of "Hell" within Christianity (both ancient and modern). I am attempting to find out where the more modern ideas of Hell came from; i.e. specifically with regards to things like "Inferno" of Dante or the modern idea that Hell is an actual supernatural realm where Satan rules and God sends sinners for eternity, while there is really no scriptural evidence in the New Testament to back this up.

From what I've read so far about the Zoroastrian faith, it seems quite obvious that Christianity, and other religions in the region at the time, most definitely shared ideas and concepts regarding their mythologies, doctrines and creation stories. Zoroastrianism was the earliest of all the faiths of the Middle East (as far as scriptural sources imply) and was probably the source of a lot of inspiration for contemporary writers.
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deactivated-5a79221380856

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#2 deactivated-5a79221380856
Member since 2007 • 13125 Posts
This is the first I've ever heard of it. Wasn't Christianity also influenced by Greek mythology as well?
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ChiliDragon

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#3 ChiliDragon
Member since 2006 • 8444 Posts
Without looking at Wikipedia, or any other source of information, what do you guys know about Zoroastrianism off the top of your head?foxhound_fox
Practically nothing. I know it's old, from somewhere in the Middle East, and used to be a lot more wide-spread than it is today. Didn't Nietzsche study it at some point? :?
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Gambler_3

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#4 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts
I have heard the name in a religious book. I know it's a religion but didnt read the chapter on it as I found it too boring so I dont really know anything else.
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Gambler_3

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#5 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts
Btw foxhound made a thread. It's the first time I have seen that.:o
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domatron23

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#6 domatron23
Member since 2007 • 6226 Posts
I can't say that know anything whatsoever about it actually.
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GabuEx

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#7 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts
I know it has some sort of link to the Abrahamic religions, but I must confess that that is about it; I know next to nothing about it.
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foxhound_fox

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#8 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
Well, I've made it through the first section in the book I got and will post a summary of it on Saturday. The section covers the foundational concepts with Zoroastrianism during the Gathic period, which the text places between 1000 and 600 BCE.

From what I've read of this section, there are surprising parallels in Christianity, ones that actually go beyond the time of Christ and the Bible, i.e. Dante Alighieri's structure of his Divine Comedy is almost exactly like the idea of the afterlife exists in Gathic Zoroastrianism. There is "Hell" or a fiery/dark underworld where sinners are sent to be punished for their wickedness, there is "Purgatory" or a place of equal righteousness/wickedness where there is no punishment or reward, and there is a "Heaven" or "Paraidse" where the righteous go to be rewarded for fighting against Druj (Wickedness) and the forces of Angra Mainyu (Ahriman).

An interesting point I came across, that I don't really think exists in other monotheistic faiths is the concept that Ahura Mazda (the Godhead) lies directly opposite to Angra Mainyu (the Devil-like figure), and the negative figure was NOT created by the Godhead, and exists independently of the Godhead solely to attack the Godhead and his forces for righteousness.

There is some seriously good material contained within this tradition, and I find it odd how little people (including myself) have heard of it.
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GabuEx

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#9 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

An interesting point I came across, that I don't really think exists in other monotheistic faiths is the concept that Ahura Mazda (the Godhead) lies directly opposite to Angra Mainyu (the Devil-like figure), and the negative figure was NOT created by the Godhead, and exists independently of the Godhead solely to attack the Godhead and his forces for righteousness.foxhound_fox

Well, although technically speaking Christian doctrine holds that the devil was created by God (it must have been, given that God created, well, everything), I must admit that in listening to some Christians talk about the devil, one wonders whether that is really what they believe.

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#10 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

Alright, I've decided to write a little about Zoroastrianism during the Gathic period according to the text I have "Zoroastrian Theology: From the Earliest Times to the Present Day" by Maneckji Nusservanji Dhalla (a Zoroastrian cleric), New York: AMS Press Inc., 1972 (reprinted from 1914 edition).

It is my goal to summarize Zoroastrian religion in as little words as possible, and I will be using the aforementioned text as my primary source.

A Little Background


Zoroastrianism is an ancient Iranian religion that developed in the Mesopotamian era around 3000 years ago (or later). The essential foundations of the religion were established by Zoroaster (a prophet according to the tradition) around the time of the Buddha and his contemporaries (500 BCE). The religion was, for a time, established as a state religion in the region but was then marginalized by Islam around 700 CE. It then migrated into India and abroad into a diaspora. Estimates of the remaining community number are between 145,000 and 210,000.

The Gathic Period

This is the earliest period in Zoroastrian thought and is the period where all the ground work for the tradition is laid out. This was the time in which the earliest texts were written and all the foundational beliefs were established.

Propagation of the faith

Ahura Mazda (the central deity, the Godhead, aka. Auramazda and Ormazd) taught the divine religion to Sraosha (the personification of obedience to religion). Gaya Maretan (the primeval man) was the first to accept these teachings on Earth. Zarathushtra (Zoroaster in early texts) was chosen my Ahura Mazda to be the first and successful prophet to impart these teachings onto humanity.

Proselytizing was a central tactic in propagating the faith during this period, and this was done both vocally and through force (military and conquest). Zarathushtra claims the faith as a universal religion that is to benefit all of humankind. However, the faith never went further than being a national religion for a period of time.

The Gathas (the earliest texts)

These texts are hymns that are believed to come from Zoroaster himself and teach the ethics of the early period. There is the concept of the immortality of the soul, the superiority of settled agricultural life over nomadic pastoralism, the importance of the group over the individual, and the idea of "as you sow, so shall you reap" (14).

The Ideal Life in Zoroastrianism

The ideal life of a follower of the tradition during this period is not to be reached through "ecstasy and meditation in the solitary jungle, but is to be worked out in struggle and suffering in this world" (14-15). The "regeneration of society" is the ultimate goal of the tradition is the importance of the society working together to "redeem the world" and bring about a more beneficial society. The individual efforts are looked down upon, and, "true virtue" is living within society and not seeking personal liberation (15).

Action is virtue. One "does not sacrifice for the self-centred self, he sacrifices for others" nor does one withdraw from society to escape from joy and sorrow, seeking the blessed company of Ormazd; saintly life can be led in the midst of the busy world" (15-16).

Ahura Mazda

The name means "The Wise Lord" (Ahura lit. "lord" and "Mazda" lit. "wisdom"). He is considered an uncaused being and existed before the universe began/was created and will continue to exist long after it has ended (The Great Renovation). Nothing would exist without him to bring it into existence. He is the personification of Eternal Light; that comes from the Sun, the Moon, the fire, etc. He is a spirit; no single anthropomorphic concept is applied to him. He exists outside the realm of conception and attribute. He is the Lord of Wisdom; those who have knowledge, know of Ahura Mazda.

He has ordained that virtue is its own reward and vice its own retribution. The prophet exhorts all to make their own choice between good and evil, choose their own faith and emphasizes individual responsibility (24). Further, he is strict and stern in judgment but does not indiscriminately dispense doom on erring humanity (24). "His justice is tempered with mercy" (24).

An epithet of Ahura Mazda is Spenta Mainyu, translated as "Holy Spirit." There is a distinction between these two as separate "beings" thought remaining one in the same thing. Ahura Mazda grants strength and good reward through Spenta Mainyu. At the Renovation, Mazda will come with Spenta Mainyu and give perfection and immortality to mankind (25).

"…Zarathushtra expounds his famous doctrine of the duality of the primeval spirits; Spenta Mainyu (Ahura Mazda), the Holy Spirit who is the direct antagonist of Angra Mainyu, the Evil Spirit." They are the personifications of good and evil aspects of existence (25).

Mazda's Ministering Angels (Amesha Spentas)

These beings are the sons and daughters of Mazda and represent the major personified aspects of Mazda's teachings.

- Vohu Manah: "Good Mind", the first son of Mazda and the most powerful of the Amesha Spentas. He represents illumination of the human mind and good thoughts. Aka Manah ("Bad Mind") is his direct opposite and representative of Angra Mainyu. Knowledge is Vohu Manah's most important aspect, and he passes this onto humanity in behalf of Mazda, and knowledge through action is better than knowledge alone; i.e. the doer is greater than the thinker.

- Asha: "Righteousness" and the law of righteousness. He represents the duty of all humanity to act in accord with Mazda's teachings and to battle wickedness (Angra Mainyu). "…the truly righteous one practices righteousness for its own sake" (34). This means that people who practice Asha to further goodness for the sake of furthering goodness, are superior to those who practice Asha and religion for their own benefit or to avoid retribution. Fire is also attributed to Asha, and sacrifices (libations and the like) are offered to Asha.

- Khshathra: "Kingdom" is the Good Kingdom and the personification of the good work of humans and their furthering of the evolution of the universe towards universal goodness and perfection.

- Armaiti: "Devotion", the daughter of Mazda and the female personification of the allegiance to Mazda and Asha (Righteousness). Prayer, invocation and sacrifice play a central role in Devotion. "Mere muttering of a few formulas with the lips, while the heart does not pulsate with devotional fervour, is no prayer. Where there is no such prayer, there is no devotion; and where there is no devotion, there is no religion" (39).

- Haurvatat and Ameretat: "Perfection and Immortality". "Haurvatat is the fulfillment of the end of man's life on this earth, as Ameretat is to be the eternal prize for his soul in the next world" (39). "Vohu Manah's wisdom, Asha's righteousness, and Armaiti's devotion help man to redeem himself on earth from the physical and moral imperfections which his human nature entails upon him" (40).

- Sraosha: "Religious Obedience". He personifies the obedience to religious lore and righteousness.

- Atar: "Fire of Mazda". The personification of fire, where humans sacrifice to Mazda and what Mazda and his Holy Spirit will use to deliver final judgment upon the righteous and the wicked; and bring profit to the righteous and harm to the wicked.

- Ashi: "Sanctity". The female personification of the life of piety and its concomitant result.

- Geush Tashan and Geush Urvan: Represent the Universe and its "soul" as well as the animal kingdom (i.e. any non-humans) and their "soul" as well.

Evil

Evil is the opposite of righteousness. It is the antithesis of Mazda and his will. Zoroaster stigmatizes evil as evil; it is not unripe good, or good in the making. Druj represents Wickedness (the opposite of Asha). It is the independent nature of evil and does not negate good. Militancy against Druj is a central and key doctrine of Zoroastrianism in this period. Physical and moral imperfections (represented by Druj) are to be removed gradually if the universe, Mazda's creation, is to become perfect and complete.

Angra Mainyu

The independent and co-existent being opposite to Ahura Mazda, who disputes the kingdom of Mazda and strives to thwart the nature of Mazda and introduces discord and death into the universe.

Daevas

The corresponding demons of Angra Mainyu to Ahura Mazda's angels. Aka Manah (Evil Mind) opposes Vohu Manah and represents evil thoughts and ignorance, and preys on those who are not with Vohu Manah. Druj opposes Asha and represents wickedness. Aeshma opposes Sraosha and represents disobedience and defiance. Taromaiti opposes Arimaiti and represents heresy. Those four are the only ones mentioned in the Gathic texts by name.

Druj

Wickedness personified. Those who yield to temptation are on the side of Druj, the female personification of everything that lies opposite to Asha or Righteousness. It has existed ever since the beginning of the universe and will continue to exist until the final Renovation when Righteousness prevails and existence is perfected.

Here there are two major concepts from this early period; that of retaliation against wickedness and the idea of suffering for the wicked in the next world. "Wrong is to be handled simply as wrong, and the man who does wrong is to be met with his own weapons. Evil is to be requited by evil and not by goodness" (51). This concept, to me at least, draws significantly parallel to the idea of "an eye for an eye" within the Torah and Old Testament and considering the era in which this idea developed, I am not too surprised.

The second idea, that of punishment of the wicked, is espoused in the Yasna (a Gathic text). After death, the wicked are subject to retribution for their actions (which are consciously performed) and face misery and pain. However, unlike Hell in modern Christianity, the Drujo Demana (Abode of Druj) is a place of darkness, not fire; but the idea of the Fire at the Renovation most likely had some kind of influence on the idea of Hell and the Apocalypse within Christianity, and the structure of the afterlife itself on Dante's Divine Comedy (more on that at another time).

Life After Death

There are three major realms of existence after the death of the physical body. Ashahya Gaetha (World of Righteousness; Heaven), being the realm of reward for the righteous, Achishta Ahu (Worst Existence; Hell), the place where the wicked are punished for doing wrong, and an intermediary place between the two realms, implied by a handful of passages in the Yasna, that is a place where the equally righteous and wicked remain, not being able to ascend to Heaven, but not being weighed down enough to be placed in Hell. A concept very similar to Limbo and Purgatory within Christianity.

The Final Dispensation (Renovation of the Universe)

Ahura Mazda created the universe with an ultimate goal in mind; perfection. At this point in time (the "end" of the universe/world), righteousness will triumph over wickedness and there will be a universal judgment meted out by Mazda and his Holy Spirit through Atar (fire) in which all souls will be purified and pass into the ultimate and perfect existence. The wicked will be punished, and the righteous will be rewarded, but both ultimately will end up in the same place afterwards; Khshathra, the Divine Kingdom, free from change and from wickedness.

The ultimate goal of the universe is perfection, and it is said that the universe is constantly evolving towards this goal. Acting within the confines of Asha (Righteousness) and combating Druj (Wickedness and discord), will help the universe reach its goal sooner; which becomes one of the main tenants of following the faith and being righteous. Ultimately in this period, the fate of Angra Mainyu and many of his cohorts is not mentioned.

~~~

There it is; my summary of about 60 pages of material about Gathic Zoroastrianism. I hope those who read it, both enjoyed it and got something out of it. I personally will be pursuing more of the idea of Hell with regards to punishment and its possible influence on Christianity. Of course, first I need to finish reading the text and summarizing it as well.

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GabuEx

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#11 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

Hmm, very interesting; there are indeed a lot of parallels to the Abrahamic religions that I can see.  Would it be correct to say that Zarathushtra was essentially the Zoroastrian counterpart to Abraham in Judaism?

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#12 dracula_16
Member since 2005 • 15993 Posts
I watched a youtube video on it a few months ago. I heard that it was the first religion to introduce the concept of Satan, but I can't confirm whether that's true or not. Zoroastrians were forced to flee to a mountainous region because of persecution by muslims and the government.
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foxhound_fox

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#13 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts

Hmm, very interesting; there are indeed a lot of parallels to the Abrahamic religions that I can see. Would it be correct to say that Zarathushtra was essentially the Zoroastrian counterpart to Abraham in Judaism?

GabuEx

I'd say more along the lines of Moses in Judaism, Christ in Christianity and Mohammad in Islam. Zoroaster is the capital "P" Prophet of Ahura Mazda, and is the only one worthy to bring the teachings to humanity (there was one who was chosen before him, but he was unable to transmit the teachings). At least, that is my interpretation.
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Gambler_3

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#14 Gambler_3
Member since 2009 • 7736 Posts
Foxhound that's an awesome quote in your sig.:)
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foxhound_fox

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#15 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
An awesome quote from an awesome game. That's why I put it in there.
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GabuEx

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#16 GabuEx
Member since 2006 • 36552 Posts

I'd say more along the lines of Moses in Judaism, Christ in Christianity and Mohammad in Islam. Zoroaster is the capital "P" Prophet of Ahura Mazda, and is the only one worthy to bring the teachings to humanity (there was one who was chosen before him, but he was unable to transmit the teachings). At least, that is my interpretation.foxhound_fox

Ah, OK, that makes sense.

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ghoklebutter

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#17 ghoklebutter
Member since 2007 • 19327 Posts
I think you're on to something there. The influences Zoroastrianism has on the Abrahamic religions is pretty obvious if you ask me.
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foxhound_fox

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#18 foxhound_fox
Member since 2005 • 98532 Posts
The more I read about Zoroastrianism, the more I become intrigued.

The Book of Arda Viraf, a composition that was made between 224 and 651 CE and written in Middle Persian in the Pahlavi script, about the author's journey to the Zoroastrian Heaven and Hell.

I can't say anything right now... but from what I briefly saw here, I can very much say that Dante Alighieri most likely was not original in his creation, and drew a lot of inspiration from either this text, or a transmission of it. Again, more things I need to go over in my quest to find where the modern Christian Hell came from.