What should be done about prostitution?

Imagine you're in office and you have the legal authority to do something about prostitution. How are you going to weigh? Are you going to criminalize prostitution? Are you going to legalize it and tax it? What good could come out of any of these solutions? Which solution can yield the most responsible society that will benefit us as individuals to live in? You, of course, being an atheist, can't rely on the authority of God or religion to support your claims. You must argue in light of the fact that we live in only our natural bodies that we possess now.

Here's a pro and con list of criminalizing prostitution provided by The Week. I'm for criminalizing prostitution. The pro side of The Week makes a better argument for criminalizing prostitution than the con side. Sex is not a commodity in the same way friendship and romance aren't. The difference here is that people are willing to pay for sex. Add on top of that how dangerous prostitution can be for the individuals, there's no reason why sex should be considered a commodity in the same way a dangerous drug can be. Also, just because prostitution may be within human nature does not mean it's right. Many other actions such as rape and murder are also within human nature and government can't allow those actions to be tolerated.

I dont know.

Like many things its not something I would flat out say "Yay" or "Nay". Its not a simple answer.

Personally I only find prostitution to be a bad thing because most of the times women (mostly) choose it because they just have little to no other option and I guess many dont like it and it can get unhealthy (STDs etc).

Institutionalize it. Instead of having random girls on the street putting themselves in danger have controlled brothels that are run in accordance with government dictated standards. That's the way NZ has done it in any case and it seems to have worked quite well.

So my answer is to criminalize freelance street prostitution but to legalize prostitution in controlled brothels.

Imagine you're in office and you have the legal authority to do something about prostitution. How are you going to weigh? Are you going to criminalize prostitution? Are you going to legalize it and tax it? What good could come out of any of these solutions? Which solution can yield the most responsible society that will benefit us as individuals to live in? You, of course, being an atheist, can't rely on the authority of God or religion to support your claims. You must argue in light of the fact that we live in only our natural bodies that we possess now.

 Here's a pro and con list of criminalizing prostitution provided by The Week. I'm for criminalizing prostitution. The pro side of The Week makes a better argument for criminalizing prostitution than the con side. Sex is not a commodity in the same way friendship and romance aren't. The difference here is that people are willing to pay for sex. Add on top of that how dangerous prostitution can be for the individuals, there's no reason why sex should be considered a commodity in the same way a dangerous drug can be. Also, just because prostitution may be within human nature does not mean it's right. Many other actions such as rape and murder are also within human nature and government can't allow those actions to be tolerated.

Genetic_Code

Sex is a commodity. Its bought and sold all the time. It will always be in demand and the fact that there is a market for it is what makes it a commodity. Right now, prostitution is dangerous because it is illegal. People are skirting the law and getting mixed up with people who are willing to break the law which creates a dangerous situation.

Also, the difference between rape, murder and prostitution is consent so I don't think that comparison stands to reason.   

I think it should be legalized but regulated. 

In certain counties in Nevada there are legal brothels. They have to adhere to health standards and the dangers associated with criminal activity are avoided. The girls that work those establishments have the same legal protection and rights as any other worker, which is something that their peers on the street do not enjoy.     

I am against it cuz a society where prostitution is rampant is likely to suffer more eathquakes as a result.Gambler_3

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]I am against it cuz a society where prostitution is rampant is likely to suffer more eathquakes as a result.Teenaged

As it happens New Zealand lies right over a fault line on two tectonic plates. Perhaps prostitution should be criminalized to avoid triggering one off.

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="Gambler_3"]I am against it cuz a society where prostitution is rampant is likely to suffer more eathquakes as a result.domatron23

As it happens New Zealand lies right over a fault line on two tectonic plates. Perhaps prostitution should be criminalized to avoid triggering one off.

Maybe prostitution being legal (I think) in Greece has resulted in the fate of Crete being to be sunken below the tectonic plate of Africa! :o

(probably in thousands of years something)

[QUOTE="Gambler_3"]I am against it cuz a society where prostitution is rampant is likely to suffer more eathquakes as a result.Teenaged

Havent you seen enough natural disasters to know something is wrong with humans? We must act NOW or else if our sins stoop to dinasuar level then you better get ready for the asteroid.:(

I'd make it legal but throw in a ton of government oversight in the process. It's the best way to do it. With government oversight you can ensure that the women aren't being exploited by pimps and also greatly reduce STD transmission by requiring that prostitutes be checked on a regular basis for STDs (for example, once every month). As another major societal benefit you would kill off a large amount of human trafficking in your country since the black market no longer has a monopoly and the government would obviously step in if someone tried to use a sex slave in a brothel. And for those people who are afraid that legalizing it would result in prostitutes loitering all over the place, the government could easily make public solicitation illegal but keep brothels and call services legal.

I really think it's beyond stupid that prostitution is illegal considering that the only reason why it's illegal is because of arbitrary "morals". Meanwhile keeping it illegal allows sex trafficking, STDs, and exploitation to run rampant. There's just no good reason to keep it illegal.

I am against it cuz a society where prostitution is rampant is likely to suffer more eathquakes as a result.Gambler_3

I see what you did there. :lol:

Is Gambler joking? I honestly can't tell.Android339

Of course he is. Natural accidents as a result of society's moral depravation is a common threat given by the religious right and I'm pretty sure this reasoning is supported by the Bible.

[QUOTE="Genetic_Code"]

[QUOTE="Android339"]Is Gambler joking? I honestly can't tell.Android339

Of course he is. Natural accidents as a result of society's moral depravation is a common threat given by the religious right and I'm pretty sure this reasoning is supported by the Bible.

I have just forgotten his usual views on things like that. Haven't been here in a while.

It hasn't been that long - a little over a month?

Is Gambler joking? I honestly can't tell.Android339

He's alluding to that mullah in Iran who said that scantily clad women are causing all the earthquakes there; it's apparently God's wrath. :P

[QUOTE="Android339"]Is Gambler joking? I honestly can't tell.ghoklebutter

He's alluding to that mullah in Iran who said that scantily clad women are causing all the earthquakes there; it's apparently God's wrath. :P

On a serious note I will like to say a few things.

I dont know about the developed world but there are many people here who have absolutely no hope of ever having a half decent looking wife/GF. The poor communities here are also most of the times very average to ugly looking people, they can only hope to get a meh wife at best. Love, commitment, loyalty are things that donot exist in the poor person's life here. Going into a whore once in a blue moon(or more if they can afford to) is one of the best moments of a poor person's life, I find it cruel to deprive them of it. Like some of my friends finance whores for their poor maid's and I definetly find it a very charitable thing to do.

I personally havent gone into a whore yet but I like to have that option open and I will definitely do it one day just to experience it, but even though it's not difficult to do here it is nevertheless illegal so I'll prolly would like to be in europe somewhere where's it's fully legal.

If it is criminalized, it will still continue, and be worse for the women. I thought this would be obvious given Prohibition and the "War on Drugs."foxhound_fox

Alas, people in North America still seem to cling to the old mantra of "if we make it illegal, it will go away"...

[QUOTE="Teenaged"][QUOTE="Gambler_3"]I am against it cuz a society where prostitution is rampant is likely to suffer more eathquakes as a result.Gambler_3

Havent you seen enough natural disasters to know something is wrong with humans? We must act NOW or else if our sins stoop to dinasuar level then you better get ready for the asteroid.:(

I really like the idea that god doomed the dinosaurs becaues some slutty dromaeosaurids couldn't keep it in their pants.

Stupid atheist raptors. . .    

Also, it appears that prostitution is alive and well in the Philippines.

LINK

Those points in favour of criminalizing prostitution are pretty terrible.

Prostitution demeans and degrades both those who practise it and their clients. No decent society should tolerate it.1

This is a matter of personal morality. There is no such thing as a dignity measurement device to tell us whether or not something is "degrading" or an ethicometer to tell us what a "decent" society would do.

Really, this is nothing more than using an emotionally-fueled opinion to support a logical position. Which means it's not a legitimate point and certainly can't be called a strong one in debating terms.

It leads to the trafficking and exploitation of women and even children from Eastern Europe and Third World countries. Many are treated little better than sex slaves.  2

Legalization and regulation means that this is going to be decidedly less problematic. In legal brothels, the government can maintain standards to ensure that the women are actually treated like workers. The problem with illegal brothels will remain, but the magnitude of the issue will go down because they're going to have to compete with cleaner, safer brothels for both customers AND workers.

Profits made by the entrepreneurs of what is called the 'sex trade' are recycled into other criminal activities. The links with the drugs trade and protection rackets are well known. 3

As I said, ILLEGAL brothels will experience considerably reduced profits and increased expenditure once they have to start competing with legal ones. Legalizing prostitution weakens the criminal underworld, not strengthens it.

The most effective way to outlaw prostitution is to make it a criminal offence to pay for sex. Punish the client, not the prostitute or rent boy. Cut off the demand and the supply will dry up. 4

I'm not exactly sure how this point shows that it is in society's interests to criminalize prostitution. It merely shows one method of doing so.

It is hypocritical to preach morality and tolerate prostitution. 5

Yet again, another point which relies on a personal interpretation of "morality". The writer of this article should get it into his head that many supposed "moral principles" contradict each other; like, you know, the idea that our society must be tolerant but should at the same time punish certain actions because the imaginary code of morality says so.

Really, whoever came up with the points for criminalization has about as much insight as an ingrown toenail. Granted, 60% of the opposing points are similarly baseless, but that's still better than 100% baseless/irrelevant/totally bonkers wrong arguments.

2 wrote:
It leads to the trafficking and exploitation of women and even children from Eastern Europe and Third World countries. Many are treated little better than sex slaves.

- While I do think there are some pretty weak arguments for banning prostitution, this is the one that I think makes the strongest case. While it may be easy to claim that having legal, regulated brothels would make this less of an issue or eradicate the issue, it could also potentially, in my opinion obviously, make this issue worse.

The problem of women being coerced through drug addictions or other means (such as violence) and the problem of under-aged women being prostitutes are not necessarily going to go away because it is a legal brothel that has women checked for STDs every week. I could see it being much harder to regulate because of the vastly increased number of now legal prostitutes to try and go through them all to determine which are good and which are bad.

Ultimately, I think the decision should be left to individual communities instead of a broad national legislation that forces legal prostitution onto ever nook and cranny of America.

The problem of women being coerced through drug addictions or other means (such as violence) and the problem of under-aged women being prostitutes are not necessarily going to go away because it is a legal brothel that has women checked for STDs every week. I could see it being much harder to regulate because of the vastly increased number of now legal prostitutes to try and go through them all to determine which are good and which are bad.

Plzhelpmelearn

No, it's not going to "go away". I don't think anyone here's actually said that. However, the legal brothel can't employ underaged or coerced women - they'd get spotted, shut down and stuffed into prison cells within a week or two. Illegal brothels can, but when they have to compete with legal brothels for the attention of the customers, who generally aren't going to bother risking illegal and dangerous sources of funbags for legal and safe ones which also happen to be less likely to make them feel guilty about exploiting women.

At this point slave-sex trafficking becomes less profitable because you gain less and spend more (coercing women into becoming prostitutes for you is going to be rather more difficult once they get reliable legal alternative job opportunities, and will probably involve greater amounts of chloroform and planning). As a result, you're going to have less criminals bothering, so reduced sex slavery.

@Barbariser: The same could also be said about any other illegal practice becoming legalized and regulated, such as the distribution of easy-access guns (waiting a week puts a lot of people off, which is why they go to black market sources), or "street" drugs such as marijuana becoming a legitimate business and causing the illegal methods to go under, because all their customers prefer legal sources to illegal ones (look at prohibition).foxhound_fox

That's quite true. However, to my knowledge there are different reasons for easy-access guns or strong drugs (I don't personally think marijuana should remain criminalized) being illegal. I don't have much familiarity with those topics, so I generally don't try and argue whether or not they should be legal. 

But as far as prostitution goes, there's no benefit to keeping it criminalized, unless your personal morals fit perfectly with those of the article above. Under a "legal and regulated" system, the women have it better, the customers have it better, the government has it better and the criminals get it worse. 

[QUOTE="Plzhelpmelearn"]

The problem of women being coerced through drug addictions or other means (such as violence) and the problem of under-aged women being prostitutes are not necessarily going to go away because it is a legal brothel that has women checked for STDs every week. I could see it being much harder to regulate because of the vastly increased number of now legal prostitutes to try and go through them all to determine which are good and which are bad.

Barbariser

No, it's not going to "go away". I don't think anyone here's actually said that. However, the legal brothel can't employ underaged or coerced women - they'd get spotted, shut down and stuffed into prison cells within a week or two. Illegal brothels can, but when they have to compete with legal brothels for the attention of the customers, who generally aren't going to bother risking illegal and dangerous sources of funbags for legal and safe ones which also happen to be less likely to make them feel guilty about exploiting women.

At this point slave-sex trafficking becomes less profitable because you gain less and spend more (coercing women into becoming prostitutes for you is going to be rather more difficult once they get reliable legal alternative job opportunities, and will probably involve greater amounts of chloroform and planning). As a result, you're going to have less criminals bothering, so reduced sex slavery.

Who is to say that a legal brothel on the surface can't easily also be an illegal brothel underneath? There are thousands of legitimate businesses that know how to work around regulations and other such things to make their companies more profitable. This is the whole problem with treating sex as a commodity in the first place. When people's incomes and financial well being is completely dependent on the trade of sex then it becomes quite tempting that to ensure profitability and success to use whatever means necessary to make sure that you can control that commodity. In this case controlling that commodity can quickly become the abuse of women, under the counter use of underaged girls. Or what about if a customer wants some kind of sadistic sex act performed but the prostitute refuses? Could she be forced to or fired?

If someone is running a legitimate storefront on the surface then it becomes all the more difficult to try and catch them acting out of line. While I am not saying this will be widespread or rampant, I am saying it could become a serious problem and is at least worth considering if making sex a legal commodity and subjecting it to the cut throat world of business competition would inevitably lead to the abuse of the women who provide the commodity. I understand that keeping it illegal also presents certain problems for women, but do you not see my points as any risk whatsoever? That no supposed "legal" whorehouse will act out of line? My fear is that most would.

IN SHORT: Currently pimps and the prostitutes that many of them abuse have to hide in the shadows to participate in this trade. Are you sure that legalizing it would not just be giving these people a legal shield to hide behind as they carry on their same practices? Do you think the government can really control sex as a commodity?

Who is to say that a legal brothel on the surface can't easily also be an illegal brothel underneath? There are thousands of legitimate businesses that know how to work around regulations and other such things to make their companies more profitable. This is the whole problem with treating sex as a commodity in the first place. When people's incomes and financial well being is completely dependent on the trade of sex then it becomes quite tempting that to ensure profitability and success to use whatever means necessary to make sure that you can control that commodity. In this case controlling that commodity can quickly become the abuse of women, under the counter use of underaged girls. Or what about if a customer wants some kind of sadistic sex act performed but the prostitute refuses? Could she be forced to or fired?

If someone is running a legitimate storefront on the surface then it becomes all the more difficult to try and catch them acting out of line. While I am not saying this will be widespread or rampant, I am saying it could become a serious problem and is at least worth considering if making sex a legal commodity and subjecting it to the cut throat world of business competition would inevitably lead to the abuse of the women who provide the commodity. I understand that keeping it illegal also presents certain problems for women, but do you not see my points as any risk whatsoever? That no supposed "legal" whorehouse will act out of line? My fear is that most would.

IN SHORT: Currently pimps and the prostitutes that many of them abuse have to hide in the shadows to participate in this trade. Are you sure that legalizing it would not just be giving these people a legal shield to hide behind as they carry on their same practices? Do you think the government can really control sex as a commodity?

Plzhelpmelearn

But the thing there is that making prostitution illegal doesn't improve any of that.  The porn industry revolves heavily around the women - a female porn star who doesn't want to do a certain sex act very likely won't be obliged to do so.  I would imagine that a legal prostitution industry would be much the same way.  A happy woman is a woman who will give good sex, and who is therefore good for business.  What benefit is reaped by running an underground illegal prostitution ring when an above-board one will in all likelihood make you more money for less effort?

Making prostitution illegal doesn't make it not happen.  It just destroys the ability of the government to enact proper oversight.  And it also prevents the easy entrance of new suppliers to drive those with a subpar "product" out of business.  Both of these actively aid both the continued exploitation of prostitutes and the likelihood of the transmission of disease.

A lot of users are making good arguments. However, I'm concerned with the idea of brothel. Wouldn't it take taxpaying money to establish a brothel? Wouldn't that essentially be a government endorsement of prostitution over all other sexual lifestyles? I don't think that will fly with taxpayers.Genetic_Code

Why would it take any more taxpayer money than any other private business? 

Why would it take any more taxpayer money than any other private business? 

GabuEx

Wouldn't the government have to establish the brothel itself?

[QUOTE="GabuEx"]

Why would it take any more taxpayer money than any other private business? 

Genetic_Code

Wouldn't the government have to establish the brothel itself?

I don't see why; other industries are regulated without being owned or established by the government. 

But the thing there is that making prostitution illegal doesn't improve any of that. The porn industry revolves heavily around the women - a female porn star who doesn't want to do a certain sex act very likely won't be obliged to do so. I would imagine that a legal prostitution industry would be much the same way. A happy woman is a woman who will give good sex, and who is therefore good for business. What benefit is reaped by running an underground illegal prostitution ring when an above-board one will in all likelihood make you more money for less effort?

Making prostitution illegal doesn't make it not happen. It just destroys the ability of the government to enact proper oversight. And it also prevents the easy entrance of new suppliers to drive those with a subpar "product" out of business. Both of these actively aid both the continued exploitation of prostitutes and the likelihood of the transmission of disease.

GabuEx

Keeping prostitution illegal will not improve the situation for the current prostitutes it is true, unless they decide to get help obviously. However, I will reiterate the fact that legalizing prostitution will almost certainly cause a boom in the business which I fear could potentially lead to far more abuse of women as competing brothels try to best their competition.

I don't think porn and prostitution should be compared as there are very distinct differences. Creating a piece of film work to sell to mass audiences versus performing a private act in a room somewhere create unique problems in regulating and protecting those who work in their respective trades. If you saw a movie of a doped up porn star essentially being raped by a guy then there would no doubt be investigations into that porn maker. If the same thing happens in a room with no one around then it becomes much more difficult, especially if the woman has as much sex as a prostitute does.

The government does enact oversight over the prostitution industry right now. A quick google search will reveal that pimps are often being locked up and many prostitutes do get help to get out of their situations. Just because legalizing it will create a list of do's and don'ts that brothels would be told to obey does not mean that they will. How is the government supposed to enforce the rules that it creates? Yearly inspections? If brothels are like every other business in America (that I've worked at anyway) they will find ways to make sure everything looks nice for the government employee when he comes with his check list.

I understand that you believe that legalizing it will cause the head of a brothel to treat his women well because it will boost their "performances" which will be good for business and this will no doubt be the case for some. However, there is a darker side to the business world. I could see just as easily in efforts to drive down prices and beat out business competitors that pimps will use the same methods that they currently use to control women. I will concede that this is purely speculation, and I may be wrong. A controlled legalization process may be a good thing for society. However, I don't think it is wise to presume that legalizing it is going to cause all the negative aspects of this industry to just disappear. I just hope that if they do legalize it that you are right.